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ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 02:56 AM
well due to me reading recent threads about updates and such, i feel the need to post this.

Ok now we all know that xbox's psu is a direct port from ps2. and that psu pushes to ps2 to its limit but barley scratches what the 360 can do. so my question is "does the ps2's limitations hold the game back from what it could be?"
i beleave so. I understand that the ps2 is still big in japan and that it would be completely assholeish to cut them out of the picture, but its unfair to us pc/360 users to pay the same amount monthly for a game thats being helb back. i dont think im getting mydollars worth.

my proposeal, next installment goes on 360, PC, PS3, and Ps2. there should be a 360/ps3 server. a PC server, and a PS2 server. the ps2 should get the fianl parts of the story moed and online support, all other consols get a game with graphical and gameplayupdates up to par with our systems. this way ps2 users get online and next installment and use next-gen consol users get our moneys worth.

discuss

untamedsoul
Jun 9, 2008, 03:00 AM
well due to me reading recent threads about updates and such, i feel the need to post this.

Ok now we all know that xbox's psu is a direct port from ps2. and that psu pushes to ps2 to its limit but barley scratches what the 360 can do. so my question is "does the ps2's limitations hold the game back from what it could be?"
i beleave so. I understand that the ps2 is still big in japan and that it would be completely assholeish to cut them out of the picture, but its unfair to us pc/360 users to pay the same amount monthly for a game thats being helb back. i dont think im getting mydollars worth.

my proposeal, next installment goes on 360, PC, PS3, and Ps2. there should be a 360/ps3 server. a PC server, and a PS2 server. the ps2 should get the fianl parts of the story moed and online support, all other consols get a game with graphical and gameplayupdates up to par with our systems. this way ps2 users get online and next installment and use next-gen consol users get our moneys worth.

discuss

You do know that Microsoft wouldn't allow a PS3 and 360 server merger right?

xBladeM6x
Jun 9, 2008, 03:01 AM
It sounds like a logical idea, and a good one at that but here is a couple reasons why this idea will never pull through:

1:Segac
2:Ps2 Players Bawwwwing about graphical difference
3:Segac listening to them
4:It would actually take effort and $$ to support that many servers and all the maintenance.
5: And Most importantly....Mudkips :D

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 03:05 AM
we dont play on microsofts servers, if we did we could just use our live acount, u dont need gold for PSU, it also explains why we have to pay a subscrption fee for PSU only

Nitro Vordex
Jun 9, 2008, 03:10 AM
>_> <_< did I get here in time?

inb4flamewars
inb4lock'd

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 03:10 AM
1. want better graphics? invest in a better system
2. what makes moar money 1 out-of-date console or 4 plateforms
3. server fee is covered by our subscription
4. SEGAC has no reason to not do this, very logical and profitable
5. mudkipz side only with nintendo, they will not meddle in our affairs, maybe

mvffin
Jun 9, 2008, 03:12 AM
You do know that Microsoft wouldn't allow a PS3 and 360 server merger right?

FFXI is a cross-platform game.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 03:17 AM
your idea stinks. Its also retarded and really makes no logical sense at all.

360/Ps3 servers? Seperate PC servers?

If you are going to support the dropping of the ps2, at least come up with rational terms.

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 03:25 AM
my personal opinion is that its safer for pc to be separated due to hackers

and i dont want the PS2 dropped, i merley want the game not to be a direct port and be stream lined before put on the more powerfull consoles, it makes sense to give people what they pay for and deserve, and i would be willing to wait a while, im sure most people would to

xbox and PS3 can run toghether, i beleave it would work out just fine, the game runs on segas servers so xbox live and playstation online would have very little to do with it.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 03:26 AM
my personal opinion is that its safer for pc to be separated due to hackers



Yeah okay someone lock this shit right now

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 03:38 AM
logic states that hackers = bad, they ruin the game

BTW i really dont want a flame war so we will agree to disagree and drop the argument u have your opinion i have mine, leave it at that.

Nitro Vordex
Jun 9, 2008, 03:39 AM
1. want better graphics? invest in a better system
2. what makes moar money 1 out-of-date console or 4 plateforms


Too bad the majority HAVE this "out dated system".

Want better graphics? Play a different game.

redroses
Jun 9, 2008, 03:39 AM
another thing is...not everybody who has a PS2 owns a PS3 <_<
I don't know how good the PS3 is going, but there aren't many (if any) games really worth it.

and why would they leave the PC servers alone behind(they would tear the whole community apart if they would do that, or a lot of people just wouldn't join the PS3 servers, so again, they would lose if they do it that way)? thats so stupid. If a server megre didn't happen until now with the 360 servers, it wouldn't happen if they bring PSU to the PS3.

And like said, they would lose a lot of people, because not a lot of people would be able to switch to the PS3 version, and a lot wouldn't want to if it's seperated from the PC servers. And I am pretty sure that a majority of PSU players play on the PS2.

Edit: Also the graphics of PSU aren't that bad =/ they are for me really very good and for me there isn't really a change needed. And I really don't like all those "yeah, we have super extrem high quality graphics...but because we invested all our money in the graphics..the gameplay sucks...BUT BLINK BLINK WEAPONS!!!" Because Good Graphics =/= Good Gameplay.

Ogni-XR21
Jun 9, 2008, 03:52 AM
A Wii version seems more obvious to me! It would compliment the PS2->Wii port mentality and would probably improve the PS2 engine a bit. Since Monster Hunter 3 is coming to Wii and PSP on PSP was a way to cater the MH PSP crowd, I think this would make a lot of sense.

After all PSU is the most "casual" MORPG out there and with all the rebalancing and easy leveling that is possible now it would be a good idea imo.

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 03:55 AM
i can agree to a certain extent, its not all graphics but come on most enemies are just reskined and changed slightly, it does show a degree of effort and quality when each enemy is not just a cut 'n' paste reskin

when it comes to my server idea, i might be wrong, i play xbox, therefore i dont know the population of the PC/PS2 servers.

what im saying is that the PS2's limitations are whats holding the game back, i figure that if it was sepparted not dropped that PS2 users could be happy and sega could improve the game without worry

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 03:57 AM
A Wii version seems more obvious to me! It would compliment the PS2->Wii port mentality and would probably improve the PS2 engine a bit. Since Monster Hunter 3 is coming to Wii and PSP on PSP was a way to cater the MH PSP crowd, I think this would make a lot of sense.

After all PSU is the most "casual" MORPG out there and with all the rebalancing and easy leveling that is possible now it would be a good idea imo.

A Wii version is totally out of the question. Friendship Codes, on PSU, no thanks.

If it ever did come out for Wii, you people would have your own server.

I'll wait for Monster Hunter 3G for PS3.

Ri0T
Jun 9, 2008, 03:59 AM
Just because it's PC-side doesn't mean the game is hacked. There's tons of (much more complicated) PC MMO's out there that keep the lid on hacking. Sega just won't (or can't) handle it.

PS2 is holding everyone down, but for different reasons. They have no way of holding updates besides the memory card. It's the whole reason that they feed us updates periodically from the Disc... we don't get any real new stuff that wasn't pre-planned unless it is in a new expansion, period. They might be able to remedy this problem by making the PS2 version of PSU require the Hard Drive... but I doubt they're going to do that.

The only thing i can think of is uhh... wait patiently for PSU2? Hopefully they'll have less of a retarded idea for updates the next time.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 04:03 AM
well due to me reading recent threads about updates and such, i feel the need to post this.

Ok now we all know that xbox's psu is a direct port from ps2. and that psu pushes to ps2 to its limit but barley scratches what the 360 can do. so my question is "does the ps2's limitations hold the game back from what it could be?"
i beleave so. I understand that the ps2 is still big in japan and that it would be completely assholeish to cut them out of the picture, but its unfair to us pc/360 users to pay the same amount monthly for a game thats being helb back. i dont think im getting mydollars worth.

my proposeal, next installment goes on 360, PC, PS3, and Ps2. there should be a 360/ps3 server. a PC server, and a PS2 server. the ps2 should get the fianl parts of the story moed and online support, all other consols get a game with graphical and gameplayupdates up to par with our systems. this way ps2 users get online and next installment and use next-gen consol users get our moneys worth.

discuss

Yeah that would be a good compromise (bet PS2 users would still bawww about their version not being as good as next gen though lol)
but 360/PC servers make more sense since its been done before and worked pretty well (in my experiance) with shadowrun so I dont see why it wouldn't work for PSU

Even so lets see this thread go down in flames from PS2 users by who's mentality we should all be watching videos, listening to vinal records and playing space invaders while surfing the web on a dial up modem because some people cant upgrade and its not fair to leave them behind lol

Maskim
Jun 9, 2008, 04:13 AM
I love the idea of merging servers, but all the servers. Won't happen, but I can still like the idea of it. I also agree that ps2 is what will be the eventual downfall of the game.

Even if they eventually drop the ps2 from supporting new material for the game, you're never going to get your redone graphics. The game's done and on the market, graphically, it is what it is. That's ok, too, because graphics don't mean spit.

Where the ps2 holds it back is in the content, and functionality of the game. No required HDD for ps2 players means you're only getting so much content before it's just done... and that's roughly, what, 8 gigs worth? You get your slowdown because the game is optimized for a ps2, as well, and only being ported to the better formats.

Yes, drop the ps2. Don't worry about the graphics, because you won't get new graphics until this game has reached the end of its lifespan, and a new Phantasy Star has been developed. Add more stuff, make it faster, make it more playable..don't worry about making it prettier.

Ps3 may not be in as many homes worldwide, but people spouting this it's failing and no one has one bs are full of it. Sales keep going up and up on them, the last figures I saw state that ps3 sales have been consistantly higher than ps2 sales were at the same point in that console's lifespan, and increasing steadily (especially since the end of the bluray/hddvd battle). I'm not going to get into an argument about which console is better, because I love both my ps3, and my 360.

The point is, as I've stated before, between PC, xbox 360, and ps3, there's no reason someone who wants to play the game shouldn't be able to do so. Especially if they were to merge the servers and eople didn't have to worry about getting a certain version to play with their friends.

Stezan
Jun 9, 2008, 04:15 AM
A Wii version is totally out of the question. Friendship Codes, on PSU, no thanks.

I'll wait for Monster Hunter 3G for PS3.

Except for the fact that only Nintendo games are REQUIRED to use Friend Codes. Point in case: Medal of Honor Heroes 2 is an online Wii game that does NOT use Friend codes.

Ogni-XR21
Jun 9, 2008, 04:16 AM
A Wii version is totally out of the question. Friendship Codes, on PSU, no thanks.

If it ever did come out for Wii, you people would have your own server.

I'll wait for Monster Hunter 3G for PS3.

AFAIK friend codes are no must for Wii online games, isn't Madden08 on Wii supposed to be without these codes. And I cannot imagine Monster Hunter on Wii with friend codes.

From a money earning standpoint Wii is the most obvious platform, biggest japanes userbase of all next gen consoles, and in the end only Japan matters.

I'm happy on PC for now, so I don't really mind...

Maskim
Jun 9, 2008, 04:19 AM
As to the wii argument, you're just putting yourself in the same predicament as the ps2. You have slightly better hardware, but it's the storage that's going to kill you. For a mmo to continue to grow, you're going to need a hard drive. Your 2 gig sd card, although perfect for virtual console games and content, is not going too hold too many expansions.

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 04:24 AM
they should just put down downloadable expanxsions, if you want it, download it, dont hold other people back and if u have a PS2 get a hard drive, that would solve most of the problem right there

Shinko
Jun 9, 2008, 04:33 AM
ok i said this before in the other thread like this one but i'll say it again

i play on ps2 and pc. it runs badly on ps2 and i have a bad pc so it runs just as bad but i can't effort a 360 or ps3 at the time. but i agree with the ppl who say the next psu or expanxsion should only be for pc ps3 and 360. even though i play on ps2 i still agree with this. the ppl on ps2 should just be able to switch the characters over to ps3. not saying the ps2 ppl can't still play they should be able to just not the new 1 until they upgrade to ps3. yes alot of ppl can't effort it. (i'm 1 of them) but psu shouldn't stop from upgrading there selves to the max because ppl can't effort the new systems or a new pc. we just would have to play limited until we can effort it or just quit.

This is why segac is doing bad.... always listening to what ppl saying and never think in long terms.... it most likely why the dreamcast failed

ROK099
Jun 9, 2008, 04:40 AM
I agree, and sense the char data is on the sega servers it would be completely possiable to reclaim your charater data.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 05:03 AM
As to the wii argument, you're just putting yourself in the same predicament as the ps2. You have slightly better hardware, but it's the storage that's going to kill you. For a mmo to continue to grow, you're going to need a hard drive. Your 2 gig sd card, although perfect for virtual console games and content, is not going too hold too many expansions.

Yeah, but saying that I wouldn't mind seeing a staight port of PSO eps 1,2 and 3, all SEGA would need to do would be to port it straight across and change a few of the servers carring the unused uni's in PSU and the problem would be solved

Also I think PS3 will probably gain popularity later on since it does have a blu-ray player so when DVDs start going out people will buy it for the blu-ray player like they did with the PS2 since it would *hopefully* be cheaper by then

(btw. Dont mistake me for a sony fanboy here I sold my PS2 and have no intention of getting a PS3 atm.)

Also Shinko has totaly the right kind of thinking for being a gamer, let technology move forward and just jump on when your ready instead of bawwing about it until you are (even though theres no karma system gives +1 karma to Shinko)

Maskim
Jun 9, 2008, 05:47 AM
ok i said this before in the other thread like this one but i'll say it again

i play on ps2 and pc. it runs badly on ps2 and i have a bad pc so it runs just as bad but i can't effort a 360 or ps3 at the time. but i agree with the ppl who say the next psu or expanxsion should only be for pc ps3 and 360. even though i play on ps2 i still agree with this. the ppl on ps2 should just be able to switch the characters over to ps3. not saying the ps2 ppl can't still play they should be able to just not the new 1 until they upgrade to ps3. yes alot of ppl can't effort it. (i'm 1 of them) but psu shouldn't stop from upgrading there selves to the max because ppl can't effort the new systems or a new pc. we just would have to play limited until we can effort it or just quit.

This is why segac is doing bad.... always listening to what ppl saying and never think in long terms.... it most likely why the dreamcast failed

Yes. Exactly. People too often think in the short term. You can't afford it..now. Someday you will, and when the day comes and you upgrade your hardware, how disappointing it would be to pop in that brand new shiny game, and wonder why exactly you just shelled out all that cash, because the game makers listened to the group complaining they didn't have a ps3 or 360, so they just made a ps2 game instead, and ported it over.

I'm very much a fan of 'classic' gaming, they're the games I grew up with (my first game was my father holding me up to the controls to play pac man when it was brand new, at the ripe old age of 1). That being said, there's something to be said for embracing new technology, and keeping up with the times.

Mystil
Jun 9, 2008, 05:56 AM
Oh quit scapegoating the PS2 and quit trying to come up with suggestions to elimination 30-40% of the PC/PS2 population.

Maskim
Jun 9, 2008, 06:08 AM
Oh quit scapegoating the PS2 and quit trying to come up with suggestions to elimination 30-40% of the PC/PS2 population.

I don't want them eliminated. I want them to be able to keep up so the game can progress. Require HDD, either pop one in the ps2, or on a ps3. I'd also like to see them on the same servers with the majority of US/EU population, with a merge. No, neither will happen, but they'd both be in the best interest of the longevity of the game.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 07:04 AM
Oh quit scapegoating the PS2 and quit trying to come up with suggestions to elimination 30-40% of the PC/PS2 population.

Its not scapegoating its the truth just compare PSU to most other current gen games and you can tell its being held back by the last gen system

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 07:05 AM
Its not scapegoating its the truth just compare PSU to most other current gen games and you can tell its being held back by the last gen system

It's a last Gen game anyway >_>....

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 07:12 AM
It's a last Gen game anyway >_>....

Yet sega put it on a current gen system for a current gen price (Around £40 england) and then had the gall to charge roughly £20 (equivilant to around $40) for an expansion that was still last gen and around £7 a month to play it. (around $14 dollors)

Now I defie anyone to tell me that at that price we should still be experiencing a last gen quality game, things need to move on

(btw the £40 was at release its probably cheaper now but that doesnt help us people who were here at the start)

RadiantLegend
Jun 9, 2008, 07:35 AM
My only problem with ps2 is the lag.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 07:40 AM
My only problem with ps2 is the lag.

Read the origional post its not about bugs on the PS2 but about how the game is limited by PS2 technology while barely scratching the surface of what the 360 and PC is capable of

Pentence
Jun 9, 2008, 09:13 AM
As to the wii argument, you're just putting yourself in the same predicament as the ps2. You have slightly better hardware, but it's the storage that's going to kill you. For a mmo to continue to grow, you're going to need a hard drive. Your 2 gig sd card, although perfect for virtual console games and content, is not going too hold too many expansions.

Yeah the Wii has a harddrive mate.Also you can buy 4-8 gig sd chips now for about the same as the old 2gig ones.

Ogni-XR21
Jun 9, 2008, 09:18 AM
The whole game was made with the "content-unlocking" system made in mind. As much as I would love to see them update the graphics and taylor it for 360/PS3, I honestly don't see that happening. We rather get a brand new game (PSO2) than PSU with real next gen gfx.

The Wii argument is plausible because PSU is made for a system without any storage capacity, that's exactly why it would work on Wii.

Let's just enjoy PSU the way it is for another 1 or 2 years until next gen user base has grown a bit more and then enjoy a completely new PS online game, rather than a shoddy upgraded port of a game that was originally made for the PS2 in mind. PSU is a "last gen" game, accept it and live with it!

r00tabaga
Jun 9, 2008, 09:21 AM
the PS2 in Japan is still huge? That's like so 80's! I thought PS3 and Wii was king over there......anyways, I totally agree that the game is being held back ALOT and if there is still a couple more years of life left in this game, they better cater to the PC/PS3/360 crowd more. More enemies, bigger & badder weaponry, less lag, better visuals w/higher res, etc.etc.etc.....

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 09:40 AM
Yet sega put it on a current gen system for a current gen price (Around £40 england) and then had the gall to charge roughly £20 (equivilant to around $40) for an expansion that was still last gen and around £7 a month to play it. (around $14 dollors)

Now I defie anyone to tell me that at that price we should still be experiencing a last gen quality game, things need to move on

(btw the £40 was at release its probably cheaper now but that doesnt help us people who were here at the start)

Pfft. Stop complaining about the prices. MOST new PS2 games are at £20. You can't compare the prices to the US because of the amount of tax we recieve on the game. The price of the game isn't SEGA's fault, its the goverment policies of selling and trading cause the price to be high.

Hell, PSU is £20 here but Devil May Cry 4(PS3 Copy, Normal Edition) is £45. Can you see the difference in price and Gen?

And the reason we pay for the £7 a month should be obvious...

HandOfThornz
Jun 9, 2008, 10:01 AM
lol, i guessed from the title this would be a war thread! Just kidding...erm...

I bought PSU V1 for £25 from "Game" shop on release for PS2. I just purchased AOI fr PS2 for just over a tenner (including P&P) new from Amazon uk!

As for PS2 version well yes it may be holding PSU graphical display back (obviously games are all about graphics! lol)But when PSU was furst on the drawing board PS2 was big back then and details of next generation consoles werent released! so PSU = designed for the most popular console + then easier to update to PS3(i guess?) but i hear the xbox360 server has been successful, SEGA probally were'nt expecting that!

To release PSU on Xbox 360 seemed like a last minute decision. PSU V1 was being advertised as PS2/PC only for a long time but then a few months before release Xbox360 was added.

Personnally i don't mind as i have'nt been too excited to pick up a next gen console yet.... saying that if i do, it will be when PSU updates to PS3. My data better be transferable too,hehe! Online save should mean no probs i hope ;)

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 10:21 AM
The biggest factor holding this game back is ST's management.

End of story.

Cracka_J
Jun 9, 2008, 10:27 AM
imo, if sega actually took the time to research networks and capabilities, the servers would look like this for future psu releases:

-360/PC server under xbox live/windows live silver, monthly charge from sega.
-PS3 server, monthly charge from sega.
-PS2 fazes out, dies....PS2 owners are forced to baww or get with the times and buy a new console or gaming pc.

landman
Jun 9, 2008, 10:32 AM
They could merge the servers except for the player's room servers, so you can play missions or chat in lobbies with everyone but you can't access other server rooms to buy or.. to hack.

r00tabaga
Jun 9, 2008, 10:35 AM
PC & 360 really NEED to be on the same server!!!!! Until the next sequel they can still improve some things on 360 such as more on screen monsters (and 6 party members) w/o lag.....real shadows instead of "circles".......better lighting,shading,resolution on current engine.....more variety in enemies instead of reskins. Just more content PERIOD!

Shadaki-Kun
Jun 9, 2008, 10:39 AM
I personally don't have any problems playing on PS2. I don't really care for how great PC and 360 is over it, not much reason to do hardcore QQing about. (I have a 360, and my PC can easily support PSU)...

Hackers? I haven't heard of many hacker issues since around the day of release.

For the PS3...I've been trying to get information about how PS3 plays PSU (I could just find out myself, since I have one), and so far I've heard that it isn't that much different. I'm not surprised because Final Fantasy XI doesn't have anything very different with PS3 compared to the PS2.

Now if Sega *did* do a 360/PC sever, I would probably switch over to 360, because I like playing on my TV, and I like multi tasking with my PC at the same time. The only thing that I would see here, is angry PS2/PC players, because people would have to convert, and buy new copies of PSU (though they are cheaper now); but if people are making such a big deal over PS2, and the owner has the money, then I guess it would be something to look into.

Apone
Jun 9, 2008, 10:57 AM
If the PS2 even had 3 quarters of the ram the original x-box had, possibly this topic might not even have to exist. Of the 3 last gen systems the PS2 had the lowest amount of RAM (24 - 32Mbs) and the least amount of texture space. Its the reason why PSO never was ported to the machine. Even the Dreamcast had better texture space (dispite its 16MBs of RAM) Even though there were like 30-40 million PS2s worldwide at the time It couldnt run PSO and thus was never relased for it.
Now you cant expect The level, the characters, the network code, the AI, the animation, weapons, and various other factors to squeeze into that little RAM without MAJOR compromises, keeping this game from being the so much more people want. They did the best with what they had... Im not sad sad sad about it but it does crop up in my mind every now and then what they coulda done. Im just happy to be playing Phantasy Star with my Friends. But we all agree the sequel better rock.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 11:27 AM
Pfft. Stop complaining about the prices. MOST new PS2 games are at £20. You can't compare the prices to the US because of the amount of tax we recieve on the game. The price of the game isn't SEGA's fault, its the goverment policies of selling and trading cause the price to be high.

Hell, PSU is £20 here but Devil May Cry 4(PS3 Copy, Normal Edition) is £45. Can you see the difference in price and Gen?

And the reason we pay for the £7 a month should be obvious...

Im not complaining about the price itself but what us on the 360 are getting for it in comparison to the other next gen 360 games out there for the same price

Also I don't know where the hell my £7 a month is going since all the content is already on the disk, segac regularly delay unlocking it and/or screw up, the 6 player instanced spaces can lag more than 20+ player PDZ matchs, its STILL hard to connect sometimes and the amount of GMs iv'e seen during my time playing PSU I can count on 1 hand

Criss
Jun 9, 2008, 11:50 AM
The PS2 isn't holding anything back from other consoles, get that in your heads. Just because they decided to make a direct port of the PS2 version doesn't mean they couldn't have made separate builds of the game for the other platforms with better graphics, effects, etc that are still compatible with the PS2 clients. Nothing prevents the PC and 360 versions from having flashier and more diversified effects than the PS2, as long as the PS2 version has similar, toned-down animations and graphics to visually represent the same gameplay.

The issue here isn't the fact that they also released this on PS2. It's the fact that they couldn't be bothered developping the game for the strongest platforms and then tone-down one version to accomodate the other, and instead just went with the easiest thing to build the game on and direct-ported it to the better consoles. Once again, it's the development team's fault, it's not a simple hardware issue.

Seority
Jun 9, 2008, 11:53 AM
I agree for the next PSU expansion that it has to jump off PS2 or it's only gonna be reskin city.
As far as the Wii goes, if you think you had lag on PS2, BWA HA HA! That's nothing! The Wii's graphics are terrible as it is, so just adding level 40 techs there would freeze it completly.
Theres no way Xbox and PS3 can go together. Ever. Just how things are.
A good Xbox losers stay on their own server and continue with PC/PS3 servers. Since spliting up the two would halve the already low numbered community we have.
If there are too many bawing PS2 players, then Sega can make an adapter to hold the new data in, and such, but we all know Sega's laziness, and general carelessness of this game.

Yay, post count +1! ;>_>

joefro
Jun 9, 2008, 11:54 AM
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/05/mchw_050808.jpg
Just posting this to show some people that the PS2 is not the hottest console in Japan anymore.

source: http://kotaku.com/5008468/wii-grabs-a-slice-of-psp-japanese-hardware-sales

P.S. The chart is only of one week of sales, but for the past few months its looked basically the same. PSP, Wii, DS, PS3, PS2, 360.

Criss
Jun 9, 2008, 11:57 AM
If Sonic Team was smart, and not as damn lazy, they'd make two graphically different but compatible versions. One for PS2 (which could be ported to Wii), and one for X360/PS3/PC.

Of course, servers would keep a similar setup, X360 on their servers, PC/PS2/PS3 on another, and a possible Wii port would depend on how well they can manage the online deal with Nintendo.

Seority
Jun 9, 2008, 12:11 PM
If Sega was smart, this wouldn't be an issue.
Unfortunetly no one seems to understand that Sony and Microsoft arn't friends. Sony supports Sega more, but Microsoft didn't mind the boost in sales from letting XBOX have it, but the two will never come together.
Throwing in Nintendo seems null also.
Sega: "Hello Nintendo! Would you like to host a game of ours?"
Nintendo: -Reads reviews and looks at sales numbers.- -Slams door in Sega's face.-
Sega: "Darn, I thought'd that work."

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 12:53 PM
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/05/mchw_050808.jpg
Just posting this to show some people that the PS2 is not the hottest console in Japan anymore.

source: http://kotaku.com/5008468/wii-grabs-a-slice-of-psp-japanese-hardware-sales

P.S. The chart is only of one week of sales, but for the past few months its looked basically the same. PSP, Wii, DS, PS3, PS2, 360.

Well...thats just about the most misleading thing I've seen all week. There are more than twice as many DSs as PSPs in Japan. A one week snapshot means nothing.

Ken_Silver
Jun 9, 2008, 12:59 PM
I'm glad that all of this is all in one topic. Now SEGA or Segac has two choices here. They can either drop the PS2, force the PS2 players to update to a PS3 or play on the PC servers and make use of the new console's hard drive OR they can stay on the PS2 and add the Wii to the group of systems in an attempt to boost up sales.

They can't do both and they need to do one of them to keep the game from dying eventually. Now remember, the Wii is popular as the PS2 in Japan, so it would sell over there (just like PSO Episode 1 and 2 Plus did on the Gamecube.) This would however prevent any major downloadable expansions and graphical updates. And since not all games on the Wii need friend codes, PSU on the Wii is not held back by that anymore. Other issues exist, but being a Wii fan, Nintendo and Sega together can make it work. Not Nintendoc and Segac though.

The other option of dropping the PS2 is the option that better suits the American gamer. Not even sure about our European bretheren. And since Sega usually ignores us... well... you put two and two together. In the end, either option works for me. But if the PS2 is dropped, I worry that my labtop might not be able to keep up with 360 graphics... Anyone know if you can add more graphical power to a Dell Inspiron E1405? :confused:

Ken_Silver
Jun 9, 2008, 01:00 PM
Well...thats just about the most misleading thing I've seen all week. There are more than twice as many DSs as PSPs in Japan. A one week snapshot means nothing.

Truth.

r00tabaga
Jun 9, 2008, 01:09 PM
I will just have to wait for the sequel in what 2010......2011? I'm having fun now, but there is definately room for improvement soon and I hope Sega does something for it's big 360 fan base in US/EU............

...btw, what is Segac and Nintendoc?????????????

Golto
Jun 9, 2008, 01:17 PM
Well...thats just about the most misleading thing I've seen all week. There are more than twice as many DSs as PSPs in Japan. A one week snapshot means nothing.

I agree and it doesn't even show the tens of millions of working ps2s in Japanese homes either. PS3s have started to outsell PS2 hardware but there are no where near the amount of ps3s in Japan as there are ps2s.

ThePendragon
Jun 9, 2008, 01:49 PM
This game should NEVER have been developed as a PS2 game. EVERYTHING wrong with this game can be attributed to that mistake. It should have been made as PS3/360/PC game.

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:00 PM
I think we will see the next Phantasy Star game being more of a traditional console RPG, and it will probably be on the PS3.

But, for now... be happy with what you have.

SEGA isn't changing anything...

We've already seen how much they care about our opinions, time and time again.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 02:01 PM
I will just have to wait for the sequel in what 2010......2011? I'm having fun now, but there is definately room for improvement soon and I hope Sega does something for it's big 360 fan base in US/EU............

...btw, what is Segac and Nintendoc?????????????

For a guess I'd say Segac= Sega od america and Nintendoc = Nintendo attempting anything to do with online gameing "no chat without friendcodes or you might get molested kiddies"

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 02:02 PM
nintendoc joke needs to die right now.

Segac was funny only because it applies. Nintendoc is not a funny joke.

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:09 PM
nintendoc joke needs to die right now.

Segac was funny only because it applies. Nintendoc is not a funny joke.

What about MicroSock?

Ri0T
Jun 9, 2008, 02:10 PM
They won't ever get rid of PS2 support. They have too many paying customers invested in it. Why would they chop their legs off for virtually nothing? It's not like all of a sudden, somehow people are going to magically know that PSU has better graphics and updates once PS2 is no longer in the picture. They'd need to advertise and hype a completely new game to get that kind of effect.

Basically, what ThePendragon said is correct. It was bad planning from the start. Now that they're stuck with their mistake, they can't go back and rectify it. They need to start with a clean slate... and they won't do that until PSU isn't making the money they intend it to.

Kylie
Jun 9, 2008, 02:17 PM
It does, but for the last time, it would have been suicide for SEGA to release PSU as a PS3 game in 2006, or not as a PS2 game. Look, PS2 is a monster in Japan, and it's the main console people play PSU on over there. Frankly, I'm tired of this conversation. Maybe the next PSU game (if there is one) will be next-gen / PC with the growth of PS3's market, but this one isn't and isn't for valid reasons. To be honest, I don't think PS2 is killing PSU. I think it's just fine as a game that came out in 2006, and there's no reason for them to make it up to date.

Sha Sha
Jun 9, 2008, 02:23 PM
then again if they do bring the next game out for ps3/pc/xbox360, what about those who cant afford the next gen console
with the way prices are these days i barely get to eat 3 times a day

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 02:26 PM
It does, but for the last time, it would have been suicide for SEGA to release PSU as a PS3 game in 2006, or not as a PS2 game. Look, PS2 is a monster in Japan, and it's the main console people play PSU on over there. Frankly, I'm tired of this conversation. Maybe the next PSU game (if there is one) will be next-gen / PC with the growth of PS3's market, but this one and isn't for valid reasons. To be honest, I don't think PS2 is killing PSU. I think it's just fine as a game that came out in 2006.

Agreed for them most truth in this thread EVER.

PSU will never be seen on a PS3 as how it today. Maybe when all the expansions are out, they might do a PSO and release them to have all of them in one with little tweeks here and there on the PS3 and PC. (If they do that, you can rule out a 360 version too, Sega would probobly count that as a part of the old gen series. They will just stick a REALLY late port on the next Xbox, and what do you know, JUST like they did with PSO.)

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 02:32 PM
Well TECHNICALLY its the Xbox360 players that run the american version, and the PS2 that runs the Japanese version.

In all truth, they need to spend some money and find a way to get Harddrive support for the PS2, or they can Hang up PSU ever evolving past the bullshit pile of wasted potental that it is today.

PSU almost REQUIRES a Harddrive. Every MMORPG on EARTH requires a harddrive.Its pathetic that they went from the method of running PSOBB to the method of running PSU they way they do now.

PSOBB got downloaded patches and content with new weapons and entire game systems, the addition of Teams and shit. Fuck, the Clan system in PSOBB even allowed the leader to get a special weapon.

And then PSU comes, and they decide to go with this bullshit fucked up system of unlocking shit off the disc.

What the fuck. Seriously.


Although we cant blame the PS2 on this entirely. This could just be the plan they had for this game to avoid having to spend money on it past development and server maintenance.

1) Build the game
2) Pretend like you put a years worth of gameplay content on the disc
3) Make a subscription service
4) ????
5) Profit


Imagine if PSU used the system that PSOBB did.

We would have ALL the missions, ALL the storymode, ALL the drops, ALL the party missions, PSO stages, 15* weapons, bosses, difficulty, ect ect ect.

Then, when it was time for ST to update the game, they could actually skip months of content, and instead of them slowly unlocking shit off the disc, every two months we would get downloadable content, like NEW missions, weapons, difficulty missions...

Sega fucks everything up. I sware to god they suck at managing games.

Kylie
Jun 9, 2008, 02:34 PM
Well TECHNICALLY its the Xbox360 players that run the american version, and the PS2 that runs the Japanese versionExactly, and which is more important to ST and SEGA? Japan. ;)

They're going with what gives them the most money, and that's the PS2.

Or was in 2006 (might be different now or in 2009).

r00tabaga
Jun 9, 2008, 02:37 PM
well, wouldn't PC be considered old gen too then? The thing that hurts PS3 is that unless it is a Sony-made game, it is never developed as well (i.e. -EA,Activision,Midway,etc.). IMO, they should take a good look at making a game for each platform and not the lowest common denominator like PS2 in this case.....it's embarrassing to see this game on 360/top-end PC. The core gameplay is still plenty good enough for me to keep on keepin' on!

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 02:37 PM
Well their game is going to suck forever then.


What the FUCK were they thinking trying to host a massive online game with no downloadable content? And if it isnt bad enough, we're over here getting the ass of the deal. The japanese at least get to find some SUSPENSE in what they get next, while we over here know about it 5 months before it hits us, only to have it delayed multiple times, and all our events flop thanks to Billing Fuckups.

I love this game, but if i find out they are doing anything else with this game and keeping it the way it is now, im going to fucking quit on the spot.

Harddrive, new system, or failure.

The PS2 can use the virtual memory and downloadable content. The problem is the fact that Sony no longer even develops it for the system.

And you can fucking hang it up if your planning on SEGA developing a harddrive system specifically for the game. They dont care about that stuff anymore.

joefro
Jun 9, 2008, 02:38 PM
Well...thats just about the most misleading thing I've seen all week. There are more than twice as many DSs as PSPs in Japan. A one week snapshot means nothing.

That wasn't even the point of my post. It was to show that the PS2 is no longer selling like crazy. And its not just a one week thing. The PSP has dominated Japanese sales charts since March.

*****

DS=1.18 million units in Japan
PSP=1.09 million units in Japan

source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6122117.html

On topic: I don't think Sega needs to drop the PS2. I know they won't. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Phantasy Star game is on PS2(its own servers, Japan only.) There is still money to be made with the PS2. Just look at all of the great games its getting this year: Madden, Star Wars Force Unleached, Mercenaries 2, Guitar Hero 4, etc.

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:39 PM
Well TECHNICALLY its the Xbox360 players that run the american version, and the PS2 that runs the Japanese version.

In all truth, they need to spend some money and find a way to get Harddrive support for the PS2, or they can Hang up PSU ever evolving past the bullshit pile of wasted potental that it is today.

PSU almost REQUIRES a Harddrive. Every MMORPG on EARTH requires a harddrive.Its pathetic that they went from the method of running PSOBB to the method of running PSU they way they do now.

PSOBB got downloaded patches and content with new weapons and entire game systems, the addition of Teams and shit. Fuck, the Clan system in PSOBB even allowed the leader to get a special weapon.

And then PSU comes, and they decide to go with this bullshit fucked up system of unlocking shit off the disc.

What the fuck. Seriously.


Although we cant blame the PS2 on this entirely. This could just be the plan they had for this game to avoid having to spend money on it past development and server maintenance.

1) Build the game
2) Pretend like you put a years worth of gameplay content on the disc
3) Make a subscription service
4) ????
5) Profit


Imagine if PSU used the system that PSOBB did.

We would have ALL the missions, ALL the storymode, ALL the drops, ALL the party missions, PSO stages, 15* weapons, bosses, difficulty, ect ect ect.

Then, when it was time for ST to update the game, they could actually skip months of content, and instead of them slowly unlocking shit off the disc, every two months we would get downloadable content, like NEW missions, weapons, difficulty missions...

Sega fucks everything up. I sware to god they suck at managing games.

And, this is why PSO is better than PSU.

Case Closed.

Sekani
Jun 9, 2008, 02:40 PM
OK, so we've apparently established all the reasons that PSU is not living up to its potential. Let me just run this by as a mini-review and make sure I understand it all...

1. Sega's upper management decided to rush the release date and we ended up with an unfinished product. In addition, it was severely underpromoted outside of Japan.

2. The hardware limitations of the PS2 (no supported hard drive) prevent the game from receiving proper updates. (The Wii has no hard drive worth mentioning, and you still can't save directly to the SD card on that system.)

3. The PC and 360 versions are bad ports of the PS2 version, again probably from the rush job. In addition, the hard drives on either system are underutilized to prevent alienating the PS2 userbase in Japan.

4. Since the 360 version was an afterthought, Sega did not take the steps necessary to link all of the servers together, or possibly they just didn't have enough political clout to make it happen.

5. The entire PSU project to this date is underfunded and undermanaged, since Sega and Sonic Team appear to be focusing more on other projects.

6. People cry when they can't afford new technology.


It would be a nice "what if" to wonder what would have happened if the PS2 version had never been announced and the game had an extra three-to-six months of development time and a bit more hype.

Kylie
Jun 9, 2008, 02:41 PM
Just be patient. They'll move to PS3 as soon as it's worth moving toward. It wasn't when they made PSU, so they made a game that can be played on the most popular console in Japan at the time. I don't think they were really worried about making the best game they could make, but rather how they could make the most money or please the most people.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 02:41 PM
nintendoc joke needs to die right now.

Segac was funny only because it applies. Nintendoc is not a funny joke.

Someone hasn't experienced the constant errors not allowing you to connect to certain people over wi-fi or the unreal shovelware to playable games ratio on the wii (seriously my gamecube game collection outnumbers my wii game collection even after being raided for trade ins a few times lol)

Saying that it is rarer than Segac's screw ups and the good games do tend to be really good.

Still dont get all pissy about nintendoc lol its not a big deal

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 02:42 PM
And, this is why PSO is better than PSU.

Case Closed.




As much as i would like to flame you for that retarded statement, i have to agree at this point.

At least PSO utulized its full potental before it died. PSU is now destined to die medicore.

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 02:44 PM
That wasn't even the point of my post. It was to show that the PS2 is no longer selling like crazy. And its not just a one week thing. The PSP has dominated Japanese sales charts since March.

*****

DS=1.18 million units in Japan
PSP=1.09 million units in Japan

source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6122117.html

On topic: I don't think Sega needs to drop the PS2. I know they won't. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Phantasy Star game is on PS2(its own servers, Japan only.) There is still money to be made with the PS2. Just look at all of the great games its getting this year: Madden, Star Wars Force Unleached, Mercenaries 2, Guitar Hero 4, etc.

Selling less than 100,000 units more is hardly dominant. It would only take the PSP 10 years to catch up to the DS. O_o

MSAksion
Jun 9, 2008, 02:44 PM
Currently the WII outsells the 360 and the PS3. PSU on the Wii might revive the game. Add some spice like swing the controller to slash or throw a TECH or use the WII Zapper (nAH i'd use the Nyko Perfect Shot 9mm replica) to shoot Ranger guns.

The PS3 already has the lowest audience so putting PSU on the Three is financial suicide. You want to put your game (esp a tiny one like PSU lets not kid ourselves) on the most pouplar platform.

Most popular is the PS2. Sucks but thats how it is. So the 360 and PC users get a PS2 port =/

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:46 PM
As much as i would like to flame you for that retarded statement, i have to agree at this point.

At least PSO utulized its full potental before it died. PSU is now destined to die medicore.

It's not retarded, it's my opinion, and it's valid.

Even you have found the truth in my statement, and agree to it.

Plus, as far as I can recall, PSO never ever had billing problems.

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 02:46 PM
Woah woah woah, hold up.

Keep the 'PSO is better than PSU' statement else. Im too lazy to argue against it, I like my refural free account.

In terms of PSU, all the people who don't like how it is, don't run the show...

...Japan pulls more money out of PSU than the XBox and the PS2/PC servers combined, and if most of theiir money is being pulled out from the PS2, why should they drop it...

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:50 PM
Woah woah woah, hold up.

Keep the 'PSO is better than PSU' statement else. Im too lazy to argue against it, I like my refural free account.

In terms of PSU, all the people who don't like how it is, don't run the show...

...Japan pulls more money out of PSU than the XBox and the PS2/PC servers combined, and if most of theiir money is being pulled out from the PS2, why should they drop it...

They're also getting a lot of money from all of the japanese players of PSOBB.

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 02:50 PM
Currently the WII outsells the 360 and the PS3. PSU on the Wii might revive the game. Add some spice like swing the controller to slash or throw a TECH or use the WII Zapper (nAH i'd use the Nyko Perfect Shot 9mm replica) to shoot Ranger guns.

I'm sorry, but if PSU went motion control I would quit immediately. This game type doesn't even begin to be suited for motion controls.

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 02:52 PM
I'm sorry, but if PSU went motion control I would quit immediately. This game type doesn't even begin to be suited for motion controls.

I would say use the Classic controller, but that sucks just as much ass.

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:52 PM
I'm sorry, but if PSU went motion control I would quit immediately. This game type doesn't even begin to be suited for motion controls.

I agree, I would only play it if it had gamecube controller support, or classic controller support.

Plus, the online would be terribly laggy, slow, and you'd constantly be disconnected.

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 02:54 PM
They're also getting a lot of money from all of the japanese players of PSOBB.

How many times did Sega need to get PSO right?

Compare how long that is been out since PSU, and Then the whole statement of PSO vs PSU is invalid.

Ri0T
Jun 9, 2008, 02:55 PM
I'm sorry, but if PSU went motion control I would quit immediately. This game type doesn't even begin to be suited for motion controls.
*Imagines trying to Just-Attack with motion control* x_X

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 02:57 PM
How many times did Sega need to get PSO right?

Compare how long that is been out since PSU, and Then the whole statement of PSO vs PSU is invalid.

They got it right the first time, ports are ports.

Show me one online MMO, or RPG that hasn't gone through some revisions or refining.

Plus, off the bat PSO recieved much higher praise from everyone, than PSU did.

And PSO was a complete game when it was released, where PSU had everything of interest locked down.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 02:57 PM
It would be a nice "what if" to wonder what would have happened if the PS2 version had never been announced and the game had an extra three-to-six months of development time and a bit more hype.

Wow, thats a whole different story.

Six months of development time would equate to:

1) PS3 version of the game, which equates to a PSU built to utilize high-end equipment far better, which equates to the 360 version not sucking, running at 60 fps and its highest resolution setting. This means the PS3 version will run at max settings as well. This also will more than likely equate to the PC version running FAR smoother, since they would have time to optimize for the hardware. Also might give PS3 players Headset support.

Thats a better playing experience on all platforms.

2) PSU Vanilla would be AotI, more or less.

3) Better polish on special effects, more of what we saw in the beta gameplay videos

4) Those ugly trails for the photon arts would most likely be replaced with a singular effect

5) Bosses and such would most likely have more dramatic fights and entrances. The way MOST bosses are now is technically no different than fighting a monster with lots of HP.

6) Advertising

7) perhaps more clothing, weapons, ect ect.

8) Current stages would be FAR, FAR more polished than they are now. Not only because of the added time, but because of the fact they are developing the game on high-end systems and the PC (Which can go from high-end to low-end).

Anyone can look at most of the stages in this game and obviously realize where they cut/pasted sections of the level.

For instance, in most of the Relics stages, there are level walls placed in certian paths that were most likely links to other parts of the stage. In earlier videos of the game, there are sections and paths of the Relics seen that exist in no mission now.

In the Raffion Lakeshore stages, you can constantly walk in paths that look like they lead somewhere, but simply cut off into nothing.



9) Downloadable content, thanks to harddrives on all platforms.



It makes no sense that the PC and XBOX 360 versions of this game are a port of the PS2 version.

What the fuck. PS2 GETS ports because it sucks. You cant make ports of PS2 games and expect them to not suck. I dont recall ANY ps2 port being a good game, EVER. (Even Devil May Cry 3 had a shitsuck port for the PC version.)

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 03:02 PM
Wow, thats a whole different story.

Six months of development time would equate to:

1) PS3 version of the game, which equates to a PSU built to utilize high-end equipment far better, which equates to the 360 version not sucking, running at 60 fps and its highest resolution setting. This means the PS3 version will run at max settings as well. This also will more than likely equate to the PC version running FAR smoother, since they would have time to optimize for the hardware. Also might give PS3 players Headset support.

Thats a better playing experience on all platforms.

2) PSU Vanilla would be AotI, more or less.

3) Better polish on special effects, more of what we saw in the beta gameplay videos

4) Those ugly trails for the photon arts would most likely be replaced with a singular effect

5) Bosses and such would most likely have more dramatic fights and entrances. The way MOST bosses are now is technically no different than fighting a monster with lots of HP.

6) Advertising

7) perhaps more clothing, weapons, ect ect.

8) Current stages would be FAR, FAR more polished than they are now. Not only because of the added time, but because of the fact they are developing the game on high-end systems and the PC (Which can go from high-end to low-end)

9) Downloadable content, thanks to harddrives on all platforms.



It makes no sense that the PC and XBOX 360 versions of this game are a port of the PS2 version.

What the fuck. PS2 GETS ports because it sucks. You cant make ports of PS2 games and expect them to not suck. I dont recall ANY ps2 port being a good game, EVER. (Even Devil May Cry 3 had a shitsuck port for the PC version.)

Also, PSU would have had offline Multiplayer (since the Xbox 360 can support 4 players, and the PS3 can support up to 7 players).

And, the whole game would have been unlocked from the get go online.

Ken_Silver
Jun 9, 2008, 03:03 PM
I will just have to wait for the sequel in what 2010......2011? I'm having fun now, but there is definately room for improvement soon and I hope Sega does something for it's big 360 fan base in US/EU............

...btw, what is Segac and Nintendoc?????????????


nintendoc joke needs to die right now.

Segac was funny only because it applies. Nintendoc is not a funny joke.

To answer r00tabaga's question and respond to RemiusTA:

Segac is a reference to Sega's recent many failures in PSU, the creation of many Sonic games which were supposed to revitalize the series and didn't and the Kubara company that exist in PSU that makes other versions of weapons whose discription end with Possibly, Maybe or Apparently. It is a funny joke and a satire statement. Very valid.

Nintendoc is a reference to Nintendo's use of Friend Codes, lack of Voice Chat, failure to use online play in any major way (minus Mario Kart,) its execssive ways to appeal to the causal gamer and as a result lack of a hard drive for the Wii. This also references its now friendly relationship with Sega, the Kubara idea and how it also "re-hashes" games that sold well before (again, like Mario Kart.) I don't know if the term was used before I made it up in this thread but I find it funny and the term is also valid. It's a satire statement and a valid statement.


OK, so we've apparently established all the reasons that PSU is not living up to its potential. Let me just run this by as a mini-review and make sure I understand it all...

1. Sega's upper management decided to rush the release date and we ended up with an unfinished product. In addition, it was severely underpromoted outside of Japan.

2. The hardware limitations of the PS2 (no supported hard drive) prevent the game from receiving proper updates. (The Wii has no hard drive worth mentioning, and you still can't save directly to the SD card on that system.)

3. The PC and 360 versions are bad ports of the PS2 version, again probably from the rush job. In addition, the hard drives on either system are underutilized to prevent alienating the PS2 userbase in Japan.

4. Since the 360 version was an afterthought, Sega did not take the steps necessary to link all of the servers together, or possibly they just didn't have enough political clout to make it happen.

5. The entire PSU project to this date is underfunded and undermanaged, since Sega and Sonic Team appear to be focusing more on other projects.

6. People cry when they can't afford new technology.


It would be a nice "what if" to wonder what would have happened if the PS2 version had never been announced and the game had an extra three-to-six months of development time and a bit more hype.

That sums it up so far and good job on the summary.


And, this is why PSO is better than PSU.

Case Closed.

It's not over until PSU is replaced by its predacessor. Things look bleak now, but PSO couldn't have been heaven from day one.


Currently the WII outsells the 360 and the PS3. PSU on the Wii might revive the game. Add some spice like swing the controller to slash or throw a TECH or use the WII Zapper (nAH i'd use the Nyko Perfect Shot 9mm replica) to shoot Ranger guns.

The PS3 already has the lowest audience so putting PSU on the Three is financial suicide. You want to put your game (esp a tiny one like PSU lets not kid ourselves) on the most pouplar platform.

Most popular is the PS2. Sucks but thats how it is. So the 360 and PC users get a PS2 port =/

Complete and utter Truth.


I'm sorry, but if PSU went motion control I would quit immediately. This game type doesn't even begin to be suited for motion controls.

Totally not true. It would almost be too easy to get to work. Getting it to sync online would be tough, but that is one thing that you can rely to Nintendo to do right. But I'll admit: it better have Classic Controller usage. You won't catch me slapping boomas with my Wiimote. I get enough "Wee" jokes as it is from my friends. I'm not giving them fuel to add to the fire.

...Man, that was a lot work to type. But I wasn't going to respond in multiple posts.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 03:03 PM
They got it right the first time, ports are ports.

Show me one online MMO, or RPG that hasn't gone through some revisions or refining.

Plus, off the bat PSO recieved much higher praise from everyone, than PSU did.

And PSO was a complete game when it was released, where PSU had everything of interest locked down.

By the way, PLEASE shut up. Nobody fucking cares about PSO, and this topic has nothing to do about PSO.

Take that arguement to the PSO General forum with the rest of the kids in denial, but leave it out of my thread please.




PSU on the Wii is just as much Financial suicide as the PS3 if you ask me.

The only reason the Wii sells the way it does is because it caters to more than just gamers, it caters to everybody. Parents feel compelled to buy the Wii for their kids because its the kind of game system that the NES was -- something that generally every kid wants and every parent should get their kid. The highest selling games on the Wii are games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, ect ect. Brawl also sells well because everybody knows how awesome it is.

Ask any game developer now, and they will tell you how much of a gamble it is to put something like a FPS or Shooter on the Wii.

Most RPG developers will ignore the Wii completely, since the 360/PS3 caters more to those types of players, and ALSO since the wii is a technical piece of shit. The wii is not going to ever be a big RPG system. The only developers you will see making RPGs for the Wii are people who had Gamecube exclusive RPGs that sold well, or companies like Square Enix whom games sell like hot cakes regardless of what system they develop on, because a) All their games are amazing, and b) they are filthy stinking fucking rich.

Now...When it comes to PSU?
Ask any MMO creators about developing for the Wii, they're most likely going to laugh their asses off. No Harddrive, lackluster and limiting friend-coded online, No headset support, no keyboard support, Last-gen graphical capability and horsepower, Kiddy-oriented audience, gimmicky control scheme...

Nobody is going to put an MMORPG on the Wii, unless their MMO is already mega popular, or they have money out the ASS to advertise it with.



If SEGA develops PSU for the Wii and uses the Wiimote, prepare to hang it up, because its going to be one unresponsive glitchy piece of shit. Sega will NOT be the one to innovate ANYTHING anymore, so prepare to get the bare minimum, last-ditch effort to increase sells by putting their game on another system.

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 03:06 PM
Wow, thats a whole different story.

Six months of development time would equate to:

1) PS3 version of the game, which equates to a PSU built to utilize high-end equipment far better, which equates to the 360 version not sucking, running at 60 fps and its highest resolution setting. This means the PS3 version will run at max settings as well. This also will more than likely equate to the PC version running FAR smoother, since they would have time to optimize for the hardware. Also might give PS3 players Headset support.

Thats a better playing experience on all platforms.

2) PSU Vanilla would be AotI, more or less.

3) Better polish on special effects, more of what we saw in the beta gameplay videos

4) Those ugly trails for the photon arts would most likely be replaced with a singular effect

5) Bosses and such would most likely have more dramatic fights and entrances. The way MOST bosses are now is technically no different than fighting a monster with lots of HP.

6) Advertising

7) perhaps more clothing, weapons, ect ect.

8) Current stages would be FAR, FAR more polished than they are now. Not only because of the added time, but because of the fact they are developing the game on high-end systems and the PC (Which can go from high-end to low-end)

9) Downloadable content, thanks to harddrives on all platforms.



It makes no sense that the PC and XBOX 360 versions of this game are a port of the PS2 version.

What the fuck. PS2 GETS ports because it sucks. You cant make ports of PS2 games and expect them to not suck. I dont recall ANY ps2 port being a good game, EVER. (Even Devil May Cry 3 had a shitsuck port for the PC version.)

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

PSU was MADE for the PS2. Games are MADE for the PS2. Games are PORTED over from the PS2.

Do I need to make a list.

Grand Theft Auto 3 & Vice City
Megaman X8
Devil May Cry 3 & 4
Timesplitters 2
007 Agent Under Fire
Megaman X Comman Mission
Capcom vs SNK 2
Metal Gear Soild
FIFA 200X
Pro Evolution Football

and many more.

These games were PORTED to other consoles from the PS2, you tell me all of the games of that list suck...

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 03:07 PM
By the way, PLEASE shut up. Nobody fucking cares about PSO, and this topic has nothing to do about PSO.

Take that arguement to the PSO General forum with the rest of the kids in denial, but leave it out of my thread please.

Read the original comment I responded to, and you'll see why I was talking about PSO.

He was mentioning all the ways that PSOBB was better than PSU, and if only PSU had been more like PSOBB, than it would be a much better game.

I was just stating my opinion. No need to get so pissed off, friend.

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 03:09 PM
There are a couple things wrong with that list...

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 03:10 PM
Well TECHNICALLY its the Xbox360 players that run the american version, and the PS2 that runs the Japanese version.

In all truth, they need to spend some money and find a way to get Harddrive support for the PS2, or they can Hang up PSU ever evolving past the bullshit pile of wasted potental that it is today.

PSU almost REQUIRES a Harddrive. Every MMORPG on EARTH requires a harddrive.Its pathetic that they went from the method of running PSOBB to the method of running PSU they way they do now.

PSOBB got downloaded patches and content with new weapons and entire game systems, the addition of Teams and shit. Fuck, the Clan system in PSOBB even allowed the leader to get a special weapon.

And then PSU comes, and they decide to go with this bullshit fucked up system of unlocking shit off the disc.

What the fuck. Seriously.


Although we cant blame the PS2 on this entirely. This could just be the plan they had for this game to avoid having to spend money on it past development and server maintenance.

1) Build the game
2) Pretend like you put a years worth of gameplay content on the disc
3) Make a subscription service
4) ????
5) Profit


Imagine if PSU used the system that PSOBB did.

We would have ALL the missions, ALL the storymode, ALL the drops, ALL the party missions, PSO stages, 15* weapons, bosses, difficulty, ect ect ect.

Then, when it was time for ST to update the game, they could actually skip months of content, and instead of them slowly unlocking shit off the disc, every two months we would get downloadable content, like NEW missions, weapons, difficulty missions...

Sega fucks everything up. I sware to god they suck at managing games.

There, I saved you the trouble of looking for it.

See, he was talking about PSO.

Oh... wait... he's YOU!

So... you seem to care about PSO... hmmmm?

Rayokarna
Jun 9, 2008, 03:10 PM
Read the original comment I responded to, and you'll see why I was talking about PSO.

He was mentioning all the ways that PSOBB was better than PSU, and if only PSU had been more like PSOBB, than it would be a much better game.

I was just stating my opinion. No need to get so pissed off, friend.


I was talking about PSU on the PS2 in Japan not PSOBB.

Plus PSOBB and PSU have two VERY different time spans in terms of how long they have been out.

Keep PSO out of this.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 03:12 PM
Wow, thats a whole different story.

Six months of development time would equate to:

1) PS3 version of the game, which equates to a PSU built to utilize high-end equipment far better, which equates to the 360 version not sucking, running at 60 fps and its highest resolution setting. This means the PS3 version will run at max settings as well. This also will more than likely equate to the PC version running FAR smoother, since they would have time to optimize for the hardware. Also might give PS3 players Headset support.

Thats a better playing experience on all platforms.

2) PSU Vanilla would be AotI, more or less.

3) Better polish on special effects, more of what we saw in the beta gameplay videos

4) Those ugly trails for the photon arts would most likely be replaced with a singular effect

5) Bosses and such would most likely have more dramatic fights and entrances. The way MOST bosses are now is technically no different than fighting a monster with lots of HP.

6) Advertising

7) perhaps more clothing, weapons, ect ect.

8) Current stages would be FAR, FAR more polished than they are now. Not only because of the added time, but because of the fact they are developing the game on high-end systems and the PC (Which can go from high-end to low-end).

Anyone can look at most of the stages in this game and obviously realize where they cut/pasted sections of the level.

For instance, in most of the Relics stages, there are level walls placed in certian paths that were most likely links to other parts of the stage. In earlier videos of the game, there are sections and paths of the Relics seen that exist in no mission now.

In the Raffion Lakeshore stages, you can constantly walk in paths that look like they lead somewhere, but simply cut off into nothing.



9) Downloadable content, thanks to harddrives on all platforms.



It makes no sense that the PC and XBOX 360 versions of this game are a port of the PS2 version.

What the fuck. PS2 GETS ports because it sucks. You cant make ports of PS2 games and expect them to not suck. I dont recall ANY ps2 port being a good game, EVER. (Even Devil May Cry 3 had a shitsuck port for the PC version.)

Stop it your making me drool! :P

(although to your last part I would KILL for a port of Zone of the Enders: 2nd Runner, its the 1 PS2 game I miss and one of my all time favourite games lol)

Also to the guy who posted the PS2 ports, since when was DMC4 on the PS2?

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 03:13 PM
I was talking about PSU on the PS2 in Japan not PSOBB.

Plus PSOBB and PSU have two VERY different time spans in terms of how long they have been out.

Keep PSO out of this.

Read above, not talking about you.

Lance813
Jun 9, 2008, 03:16 PM
I was just stating my opinion. No need to get so pissed off, friend.

I'm not your friend pal. (sorry i had to)

Sega WONT drop the PS2 version, end of discussion.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 03:16 PM
Zantra, i like PSU and PSO equally as much, but they are not worth comparing, and i hate when people do so. It makes me really angry.



Anyway, as for PSU Wii?

PSU on the Wii is just as much Financial suicide as the PS3 if you ask me.

The only reason the Wii sells the way it does is because it caters to more than just gamers, it caters to everybody. Parents feel compelled to buy the Wii for their kids because its the kind of game system that the NES was -- something that generally every kid wants and every parent should get their kid. The highest selling games on the Wii are games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, ect ect. Brawl also sells well because everybody knows how awesome it is.

Ask any game developer now, and they will tell you how much of a gamble it is to put something like a FPS or Shooter on the Wii.

Most RPG developers will ignore the Wii completely, since the 360/PS3 caters more to those types of players, and ALSO since the wii is a technical piece of shit. The wii is not going to ever be a big RPG system. The only developers you will see making RPGs for the Wii are people who had Gamecube exclusive RPGs that sold well, or companies like Square Enix whom games sell like hot cakes regardless of what system they develop on, because a) All their games are amazing, and b) they are filthy stinking fucking rich.

Now...When it comes to PSU?
Ask any MMO creators about developing for the Wii, they're most likely going to laugh their asses off. No Harddrive, lackluster and limiting friend-coded online, No headset support, no keyboard support, Last-gen graphical capability and horsepower, Kiddy-oriented audience, gimmicky control scheme...

Nobody is going to put an MMORPG on the Wii, unless their MMO is already mega popular, or they have money out the ASS to advertise it with.



If SEGA develops PSU for the Wii and uses the Wiimote, prepare to hang it up, because its going to be one unresponsive glitchy piece of shit. Sega will NOT be the one to innovate ANYTHING anymore, so prepare to get the bare minimum, last-ditch effort to increase sells by putting their game on another system.

amtalx
Jun 9, 2008, 03:19 PM
Also to the guy who posted the PS2 ports, since when was DMC4 on the PS2?

Since Agent Under Fire was a good game.

I mean never.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 03:20 PM
Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

PSU was MADE for the PS2. Games are MADE for the PS2. Games are PORTED over from the PS2.

Do I need to make a list.

Grand Theft Auto 3 & Vice City
Megaman X8
Devil May Cry 3 & 4
Timesplitters 2
007 Agent Under Fire
Megaman X Comman Mission
Capcom vs SNK 2
Metal Gear Soild
FIFA 200X
Pro Evolution Football

and many more.

These games were PORTED to other consoles from the PS2, you tell me all of the games of that list suck...

And they were ported to the same generation consoles not the next one up

(apart from the football ones but they get everywhere anyway so I wouldn't say they're all ported from the ps2 (especialy since one is on the DS))

And the GC version of MGS was totaly upgraded and shouldn't be called a port

Also since when did DMC4 come out on the PS2?

Zantra
Jun 9, 2008, 03:23 PM
Zantra, i like PSU and PSO equally as much, but they are not worth comparing, and i hate when people do so. It makes me really angry.

I like them both too, I just think that SEGA has made several poor decisions with PSU so far, and back when PSO was the only game in town, they seemed to make much better games.

And, if somebody liking a certain game over another game, makes you angry. Then, well I can't help you with that. But, it seems like a personal problem, and I wish you luck with your anger issues.

P.S. you say that they are not worth comparing, but that is exactly what you did when you posted the comment about how much better PSOBB is than PSU, and what it would take to make PSU just as good.

SonicTMP
Jun 9, 2008, 03:24 PM
I just wanna say that I think PSU for the Wii is a bad idea. I'm not gonna dwell on the online problems it has at the moment. Live wasn't perfect when it first came out their.

Space wise PSU will run into the same problems on Wii that it does on ps2. There's already enough debate over ps2 limitations right now. No HDD is the biggest thing. Being limited by the play disc causes so many problems.

And then the controls is a seperate problem. If it's ported it's going to have to make use of the standard controller setup. Motion sense might be fun, but please think about flicking the controller 500 times a run for PA usage. That's gonna hurt real quick unless your wrist is built up from.... other activities. Not to mention the wimote isn't exactlly easy acess for all of itn'st buttons. 1/2 are a bit of a pain to get to holding normally.

Wii is fun for what it is. But personally I don't think it's ready or able to handle mmorpgs.

Sekani
Jun 9, 2008, 03:25 PM
PSU was MADE for the PS2. Games are MADE for the PS2. Games are PORTED over from the PS2.



If you've been following the thread you'd realize that this is the problem, not a badge of honor.

Also about half of the games in your list suck.


EDIT: About the Wii, most people seem to forget that not every game on that console has to be made with motion controls. Actually, I think most developers seem to forget that too.

Akaimizu
Jun 9, 2008, 03:28 PM
Actually, Capcom vs. SNK2 was made for the Dreamcast. Then it was ported.

I remember the precise date when the 1 and only original Dreamcast version of it was released. And technically, so does everybody else. September 11, 2001. A true date.

Needless to say, the real date in which those of us importing the title, was to get it, was a little bit later. Understandably.

Cracka_J
Jun 9, 2008, 03:29 PM
PSU was MADE for the PS2. Games are MADE for the PS2. Games are PORTED over from the PS2.


since I don't have the time or the want to break down your entire error-flawed post, so I'll make it simple.

games are made developed for the largest userbase systems, usually that have the most graphical power.

with psu being developed *likely* around 2003, the ps2 was a natural choice at the time.

systems evolved, pc's got more powerful (as always)...

ports likely decided to be made as time progressed and PS2 userbase went DOWN. they needed to make $$ off of PS2 players, no longer in the PS2 userbase.

PS2 is no longer the natural selection to develop games on. It is done, over, lights out for PS2. You will never see another game developed specifically for PS2 in your lifetime. It has ran it's course and is DONE. DEAL WITH IT AND MOVE ON.

As for your "hit list" just a few mistakes I caught, Capcom vs. SNK 2 was developed for NAOMI which is a dreamcast engine variant. The game was ported to DC first back in like '02 in japan...it never made DC release stateside. DMC4 was developed with both ps3 and x360 in mind...there is no ps2 port.

edit: akaimizu is right, I had mine preordered for 9/11/2001 as well, but it was an arcade NAOMI board release before DC. I remember that now after reading your post. Not exactly one of those times you remember for a video game.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 03:33 PM
And they were ported to the same generation consoles not the next one up

thanks

And actually, i was reffering to PS2--> PC ports, but in truth all Console --> PC ports suck, so meh.

PS2 usually gets ports OF next-gen games. PSU is one of the first instances ive heard of that is on a next-gen console, but is a PORT of the ps2 version. Thats completely backwards.



Well anyway guys, lets stop talking about the PS3, and instead the possibilities of Harddrive requirements for the next expansion.

Although i think the chances of Sony continuing development on the Harddrive is pretty slim, and the chance of Sega developing a Harddrive and shipping it with the game for extra cost is nonexistant, i think that a Harddrive would solve lots of PS2 problems.

If the next expansion for the game required Harddrive support, and upgraded visuals for all the versions, the PS2 version can simply get the visuals downgraded further (Draw Distance, Enemy Models) to handle the larger stages, and to lower the framerate problems if the idiots dont apply Autoframeskip to the mix.

Also, the Harddrive could be used as virtual memory for the PS2, allowing it to load all the necessary memory uses (Animations/photon arts/Technics, enemy models, stage, BGM, Weapon Models) and allow the Harddrive to provide for the lesser needed things (Sound effects, Special effects).

That way, 360 can get optimized graphics, PC can get optimized graphics, and ALL platforms can receive downloaded content.

Iduno
Jun 9, 2008, 03:37 PM
thanks

And actually, i was reffering to PS2--> PC ports, but in truth all Console --> PC ports suck, so meh.

PS2 usually gets ports OF next-gen games. PSU is one of the first instances ive heard of that is on a next-gen console, but is a PORT of the ps2 version. Thats completely backwards.



Well anyway guys, lets stop talking about the PS3, and instead the possibilities of Harddrive requirements for the next expansion.

Although i think the chances of Sony continuing development on the Harddrive is pretty slim, and the chance of Sega developing a Harddrive and shipping it with the game for extra cost is nonexistant, i think that a Harddrive would solve lots of PS2 problems.

If the next expansion for the game required Harddrive support, and upgraded visuals for all the versions, the PS2 version can simply get the visuals downgraded further (Draw Distance, Enemy Models) to handle the larger stages, and to lower the framerate problems if the idiots dont apply Autoframeskip to the mix.

Also, the Harddrive could be used as virtual memory for the PS2, allowing it to load all the necessary memory uses (Animations/photon arts/Technics, enemy models, stage, BGM, Weapon Models) and allow the Harddrive to provide for the lesser needed things (Sound effects, Special effects).

That way, 360 can get optimized graphics, PC can get optimized graphics, and ALL platforms can receive downloaded content.

Dunno about the chance of Sega releasing a hardrive being completly non-existant, after all they did bring out the PSU texter lol (but maybe they only do vaguely useless hardware like that now so you're probably right lol)

Lance813
Jun 9, 2008, 03:41 PM
That really would be cool i still have my EQ HDD for my PS2, but sega wont put time and effort into the whole HDD thing, or drop the PS2

Rescue
Jun 9, 2008, 03:43 PM
Actually, Capcom vs. SNK2 was made for the Dreamcast. Then it was ported.

I remember the precise date when the 1 and only original Dreamcast version of it was released. And technically, so does everybody else. September 11, 2001. A true date.

Needless to say, the real date in which those of us importing the title, was to get it, was a little bit later. Understandably.


And I remember the day Dreamcast was first released... 9.9.99

Lance813
Jun 9, 2008, 03:45 PM
i loved the DC game, i miss being online

Criss
Jun 9, 2008, 05:49 PM
First of all, those PSOBB vs PSU comparisons are completely irrelevant. PSOBB is a complete overhaul of a game released years earlier, and PSU only had one expansion so far. If you people absolutely want to compare PSU to PSO, compare it to PSO v2 Dreamcast. That would be more accurate.

And assuming that Nintendo would finally allow games to read and write directly to SD cards, a Wii version of PSU could work very well. Heck, they could even release it as a special package with an 8Gb SD card included. Use the SD card as a storage device and as a good HDD replacement, and you've got enough space for at least two years of downloadable updates and expansions. Add in support for the Gamecube and classic controller and stable online support for the original PC/PS2 servers and you've got a solid upgrade to PSU. Of course this is in the eventuality that they'd visually overhaul PSU, not just port the current game. With the Wii's popularity, this could effectively replace the PS2 as a way of getting as many potential players as possible, both in Japan and America.

And anyways, there's still no news of whatever they're gonna release for PSU after AoI. So as far as we know, they might as well be working on a Blue Burst equivalent to PSU. I think we pretty much outlined all of the problems that are holding PSU back right now, so let's put a rest on this.

Ken_Silver
Jun 9, 2008, 06:07 PM
Zantra, i like PSU and PSO equally as much, but they are not worth comparing, and i hate when people do so. It makes me really angry.



Anyway, as for PSU Wii?

PSU on the Wii is just as much Financial suicide as the PS3 if you ask me.

The only reason the Wii sells the way it does is because it caters to more than just gamers, it caters to everybody. Parents feel compelled to buy the Wii for their kids because its the kind of game system that the NES was -- something that generally every kid wants and every parent should get their kid. The highest selling games on the Wii are games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, ect ect. Brawl also sells well because everybody knows how awesome it is.

Ask any game developer now, and they will tell you how much of a gamble it is to put something like a FPS or Shooter on the Wii.

Most RPG developers will ignore the Wii completely, since the 360/PS3 caters more to those types of players, and ALSO since the wii is a technical piece of shit. The wii is not going to ever be a big RPG system. The only developers you will see making RPGs for the Wii are people who had Gamecube exclusive RPGs that sold well, or companies like Square Enix whom games sell like hot cakes regardless of what system they develop on, because a) All their games are amazing, and b) they are filthy stinking fucking rich.

Now...When it comes to PSU?
Ask any MMO creators about developing for the Wii, they're most likely going to laugh their asses off. No Harddrive, lackluster and limiting friend-coded online, No headset support, no keyboard support, Last-gen graphical capability and horsepower, Kiddy-oriented audience, gimmicky control scheme...

Nobody is going to put an MMORPG on the Wii, unless their MMO is already mega popular, or they have money out the ASS to advertise it with.



If SEGA develops PSU for the Wii and uses the Wiimote, prepare to hang it up, because its going to be one unresponsive glitchy piece of shit. Sega will NOT be the one to innovate ANYTHING anymore, so prepare to get the bare minimum, last-ditch effort to increase sells by putting their game on another system.

There is only one problem with this idea: Nothing is going to change unless developers change that. The same could be said about the DS and how people won't ever by the PS3 because it costs too much. These ideas that we have about the systems changes overtime. While that might be true now, it may not be later. See it this way: The Playstation systems became the RPG systems only because developers left the Nintendo 64 system.

The PS3 might not be able to live up to the reputation of the PS2 and the 360 doesn't appear to be a RPG console. In that sense there may not be a RPG console. So you just can't call out the Wii because of it's current line up. After all, out of a 5 or 6 year span, the wii is only a year old and the 360 two years old. Don't think for a second that the Wii is going to only have casual games nor should anyone think that it will repeat the mistake of the Gamecube by not having any third party support.

As for PSU, the fate of it relies in Sega: a company which is going through tough times. The Sonic series is failing, the Phantasy Star series is failing and there is no end in sight. Customer support blows and even lower level management (GM's) are getting the middle finger from the higher ups.

Can PSU be saved? Sure. But only is Sega & Sonic Team gets a astronomical kick in the pants. Whether they jump on the Wii bandwagon, or invest in the unsure future of the PS3 for the Phantasy Star series, there is no easy answer or any quick fix. People will be mad, people will be furious and people may even abandon Sega. But what matters is if they can draw in more players and recreate their fanbase. That is how business works.

Either way, Sega is in a loose-loose situation. If they do nothing, they loose; if they act, they can still loose. Sega just needs to act and act now, so that if they go down, they can say that they went down swinging.

EDIT!

Yeah, Criss is right. There is nothing else left to be said and done. Just forward this topic to Sega of America and then translate it and forward it to Sega of Japan. :D

Kylie
Jun 9, 2008, 06:31 PM
PS2 is the Marie Antoinette of PSU, what? As for the Wii idea, I'd rather not see that for personal reasons, but it could sell well. Isn't Capcom doing the same for Monster Hunter?

ChaosAngel92
Jun 9, 2008, 07:52 PM
FFXI is a cross-platform game.

Yeah. But we are talking of Square-Enix witch have the 2nd top seller franchise on the videogame World.

Rambo!
Jun 9, 2008, 09:13 PM
I can break down the problems with the ps2 into 3 lists

1. Lack of hard drive
The biggest problems because it forces developers to force all the data on 1 disc (limits creativity and future updates) and forces a lot more of the game to be set through a network connections over the internet (hogs bandwidth).

2. Lack of system power
The ps2 is powerful enough to run this game but it is not up to par with the other 2 platforms. Also mob size is limited by because of this or we could have a much larger mob sizes. I know I want larger mobs. However when this game was first began development it was ment to be a ps2 exclusive. I remember because I was pissed because I did not have a ps2. It was later announced that it would have Pc and then 360 ports. Bottom line this is a ps2 game ported to the 360 and pc.

3. Lack of will to move on
The ps3 have been out for a couple years now and it would not be to hard to optimize for the ps3 . In my opinion the ps2 should be axed and the ps3 port should be made. Pc/ps3 server and 360 because Microsoft would never let the ps3 connect to there network.

Right now the game seems to be going fine and the new mission is pretty good they are starting to work around the flaws a bit better it seems. we can wait till the future to see whats coming up there should be 1 more expansion after this

About hacking
I just felt to need to post about people saying the pc server is full of hackers and fear it. I just wonder if you were looking at the leader board during mag or did you forget that the top 360 players hacked there way to the top. They continue to hack as well, personally I think they should be banned and there 360 reported to microsoft but thats just me.

Edit




Either way, Sega is in a loose-loose situation. If they do nothing, they loose; if they act, they can still loose. Sega just needs to act and act now, so that if they go down, they can say that they went down swinging.

:D

I could not have said it better myself you are 100 percent correct

Maskim
Jun 9, 2008, 09:26 PM
Well anyway guys, lets stop talking about the PS3, and instead the possibilities of Harddrive requirements for the next expansion.[/I]

Although i think the chances of Sony continuing development on the Harddrive is pretty slim, and the chance of Sega developing a Harddrive and shipping it with the game for extra cost is nonexistant, i think that a Harddrive would solve lots of PS2 problems.

If the next expansion for the game required Harddrive support, and upgraded visuals for all the versions, the PS2 version can simply get the visuals downgraded further (Draw Distance, Enemy Models) to handle the larger stages, and to lower the framerate problems if the idiots dont apply Autoframeskip to the mix.

Also, the Harddrive could be used as virtual memory for the PS2, allowing it to load all the necessary memory uses (Animations/photon arts/Technics, enemy models, stage, BGM, Weapon Models) and allow the Harddrive to provide for the lesser needed things (Sound effects, Special effects).

That way, 360 can get optimized graphics, PC can get optimized graphics, and ALL platforms can receive downloaded content.

This right here.

You don't need a HDD package developed by sega or Sony, though. The system is in its twilight years, the time when the only reason it's on shelves is because there's a few more dollars to milk out of it, but not much. Expect one more holiday season with ps2's at your local walmart, with a below $100 price drop before shipments cease. A major peripheal, like another HDD specifically for it, will never happen at this ending point of its career.

Besides, adding a hard drive to a ps2 is about the easiest upgrade one could ever do, to anything. Take less time to pop in a hard drive on a ps2, than it would to install drivers for a simple usb device on a computer.

Got an older fattty ps2, just about any IDE drive will work with the network adapter. Got a not as old slim ps2, external usb connection drive. The only thing Sega would want to package with an expansion would be to include, on the game disc itself, a client to format the drive correctly for the ps2, since it doesn't use the same format as most computers.

Shinko
Jun 9, 2008, 10:16 PM
i don't understand why ppl are so stuck keeping psu on ps2. ok psu is on ps2 but why would u want to keep it on there. Would you like them to keep metal gear 3 on ps2, or Final Fantasy XIII, or GTA. i mean come on ppl just because you can't effort the new systems don't mean they should keep games on the old ones... i mean really.

I can't effort ps3 but you don't see me saying no keep psu on ps2 because i can't effort the high price system. No that's just bull. ps2 is going to die or sooner or later in the future anyway just like all old system do

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2008, 10:33 PM
i don't understand why ppl i so stuck keeping psu on ps2.

because it wont be otherwise.

DjDragoon
Jun 9, 2008, 11:01 PM
Thing is, PSU isn't gonna get any better graphically, or at least not significantly. Even when PSO went to Xbox for episode 1 & 2, there wasn't even that much of a presentation increase from the Dreamcast. If you want a better looking Phantasy Star, then you'll have to wait for the next series. Corse ya, I was also very disappointed when it wasn't released on next-gen consoles in the first place, but that's their bad. PSU isn't that bad of a game, but they'll need to work harder to keep me interested.

Chuck_Norris
Jun 9, 2008, 11:33 PM
"does the ps2's limitations hold the game back from what it could be?"
i beleave so.


I agree.



my proposeal, next installment goes on 360, PC, PS3, and Ps2. there should be a 360/ps3 server. a PC server, and a PS2 server.



FUCK NO!

I don't wanna leave all my friends on PC just to go listen to a bunch of whinny brats screaming into their mics, only to get better graphics in return!

Ezodagrom
Jun 10, 2008, 05:36 AM
Thing is, PSU isn't gonna get any better graphically, or at least not significantly. Even when PSO went to Xbox for episode 1 & 2, there wasn't even that much of a presentation increase from the Dreamcast. If you want a better looking Phantasy Star, then you'll have to wait for the next series. Corse ya, I was also very disappointed when it wasn't released on next-gen consoles in the first place, but that's their bad. PSU isn't that bad of a game, but they'll need to work harder to keep me interested.

If a next expansion would be done for PS3 instead of PS2, even if graphically it wouldn't be much improved, PS3 has an hard drive, as xbox360 and pc also have. That means there would be real updates/patches, instead of unlocking content from the disk like we have now ._. (since the PS2 doesn't support real updates, doesn't have hard drive).

Akaimizu
Jun 10, 2008, 09:25 AM
Thing is, PSU isn't gonna get any better graphically, or at least not significantly. Even when PSO went to Xbox for episode 1 & 2, there wasn't even that much of a presentation increase from the Dreamcast. If you want a better looking Phantasy Star, then you'll have to wait for the next series. Corse ya, I was also very disappointed when it wasn't released on next-gen consoles in the first place, but that's their bad. PSU isn't that bad of a game, but they'll need to work harder to keep me interested.

There was a logical reason for that, actually. And yes, even some of the spell effects were toned down from the Dreamcast to Gamecube/Xbox. A big part of that was split-screen. They didn't up the graphics because they decided to support 4-player split screen options, instead. So in that regard, there was quite a graphical improvement, but in a different way. Episode 2, of course, is where some other snazzy gfx appeared, which separated itself from the way levels looked in Episode 1.

amtalx
Jun 10, 2008, 10:42 AM
I don't wanna leave all my friends on PC just to go listen to a bunch of whinny brats screaming into their mics, only to get better graphics in return!

We don't want you either. :P

RemiusTA
Jun 10, 2008, 11:02 AM
X360 players and their mics... Its like PS2 version with the Voices. People complain about it, but the people who have it REALLY wish they didnt...


As for PSO Ep.1&2, they did up the graphics alot. Just not the character models. Most of the graphical updates from the DC-->GCN/Xbox were mostly Special Effects. (Like the Heatwave distortion on Gifoie/Rafoie 26+, and the water distortion in the Ep2 levels.)

Although its really kind of minor, the Water distortion did WONDERS for the level design aspect in Ep2. The Seabed, Seaside, and Jungle stages looked absolutely amazing with the pretty water distortion effects. Those stages in PSOBB almost completely lost the feeling, since for some reason the idiots decided not to include it.


In all truth, anyone can tell the reason the graphics are so bad is because they are developing the game on the base hardware of the PS2. If this game was developed for 360/PS3, im quite sure the game would play visually like the CG renderings, more or less. The CG in this game isnt nearly comparable to the works of Square Enix or someone, its more like really high resolution in-game engine with far better models.

Abashi76
Jun 10, 2008, 06:57 PM
OK, so we've apparently established all the reasons that PSU is not living up to its potential. Let me just run this by as a mini-review and make sure I understand it all...

1. Sega's upper management decided to rush the release date and we ended up with an unfinished product. In addition, it was severely underpromoted outside of Japan.

2. The hardware limitations of the PS2 (no supported hard drive) prevent the game from receiving proper updates. (The Wii has no hard drive worth mentioning, and you still can't save directly to the SD card on that system.)

3. The PC and 360 versions are bad ports of the PS2 version, again probably from the rush job. In addition, the hard drives on either system are underutilized to prevent alienating the PS2 userbase in Japan.

4. Since the 360 version was an afterthought, Sega did not take the steps necessary to link all of the servers together, or possibly they just didn't have enough political clout to make it happen.

5. The entire PSU project to this date is underfunded and undermanaged, since Sega and Sonic Team appear to be focusing more on other projects.

6. People cry when they can't afford new technology.


It would be a nice "what if" to wonder what would have happened if the PS2 version had never been announced and the game had an extra three-to-six months of development time and a bit more hype.

That just about covers it! Thats why this game did not do nearly as well as it should of.

android 007.5
Jun 10, 2008, 07:37 PM
yep that just about sums it up.
option #1. wait for the next installment
or we can do option #2. just drop the PS2

xjustsumloser
Jun 11, 2008, 01:02 AM
ps2 caused a lot of problems for what PSU could have been. But it doesn't matter, PS2 JP is HUGE, everyone has one. The game is made and all is done, just have to deal with the useless slowdowns, average graphics and only whole new disks for expansions (or Marketplace download)