Hitting Women

[Toadthroat]

Take this hypothetical situation:

You and a female are in an argument. She may be your girlfriend, she may just be a friend, she may be your sister. Whatever the case you're in a pretty heated battle of words. You say something that may be really hurtful, or maybe you don't, maybe just during the passion of the moment she punches you, in the face. And I don't mean some love tap, I mean a real hit. One that makes you stagger back, say "OW, FUCK!", and possibly bleed.

Do you think its right to hit her back? Or do you take it and say "Hey, thats not nice. You're lucky you have a vagina"?

This question is obviously to the boys, but females can answer too.

[Chuck_Norris]

I'd probably hit them back, Although I'm sure it'd be better to just hold off, possibly take it to the police.

[Nitro Vordex]

Headlocks are your friend, as she won't play "innocent victim" card afterwards if you had hit her.

I admit to hitting a female, and I'd felt like absoulte shit afterwards. Even when I think of it now, I feel like a complete jackass.

[Nai_Calus]

Whether I'd hit her or not depends on how tree-hugging hippie 'can't we all get along' I'm feeling at the time.

...This applies equally to men, however.

Male or female, if you hit me and I'm in a fighting mood, I will sock you in your fucking jaw, you jackass.

Hint: Females can be as much of, or even greater, dicks as men. Often greater since they think they can get away with because they have tits.

Yeah sorry sweetie, equality of the sexes means you get EXACTLY the same treatment.

Though, I wonder how some people would feel with:

A. Woman over six feet tall, not at all small bone structure, the exact opposite of dainty and girly

and

B. 5'4 man of slight build, not that strong.

Do you still feel like a dick hitting the woman who can break you over her goddamned knees? Do you have the decency to feel like a dick hitting the weaker guy?

And for females, an additional question: Have you ever felt like a dick hitting a man?

[Xaeris]

My answer is simple; I would hit a woman for all the same reasons I would hit a man. The trick is, there aren't all that many reasons I'd hit a man to begin with, including argument escalation. So in that specific situation, I'd be like "WTF, ow;" after all, it's unlikely a simple argument is going to turn into a situation where I'm at risk for bodily harm.

[Uncle_bob]

There's nothing wrong with hitting a person back if no one else is around to prove it.

[Iduno]

I know about equality and all that but I still couldn't bring myself to hit a girl it would just feel wrong.

[SabZero]

Really, because of an argument? Just walk away, be the bigger person.

No one, independent of gender, should resort to emotional or physical violence for the sake of an argument. Come on, look a the big picture, how petty does it make the argument?

Also, the punchee is welcome to press charges. Regardless of gender.

[Nitro Vordex]

If all else fails, go with a noogie.

*The grinding of knuckles into opposers head in a headlocked fashion*

[Shadowpawn]

No. I would just walk away from the argument, not to mention it would make me feel like shit anyway if I hit a woman. It's never been in my nature to hit a woman, even if she was being an ass. If you really need her to know that she was being a dick there are OTHER ways of getting her back, you don't have to resort to the ol' backhand.

[Siertes]

I'm with Xaeris on this one: I'd hit a woman for the same reason I'd hit any man, which for me is only if I feel I'm at risk for some real bodily harm.

So for the topic creator's scenario, I probably wouldn't hit back. Her resorting to physical violence would be the end of the argument for me and I'd just leave. However if she continues to be violent and somehow hinders me from leaving, then yeah I'd say some force to get her out of my damn way would be fair =P (Most likely a strong shove)

[Darkly]

Don't think i could do it. I'd feel like too much of a dick afterwards for doing it, but if my girlfriend socked me in the jaw - I would just leave, be the bigger person and all that.

If a girl is using the fact that she's a girl and therfore 'untouchable' I would tell her i'm not playing your games and leave.

[Powder Keg]

I'd feel bad for hitting them back, because I'd do it hard...so I'd wouldn't. I just scare the shit out of them with non-violent resistance.

But if I really feel I'm in danger for any reason, whether the person possesses a weapon or is in any position to cause real injury otherwise, they will immediately become fair game.

[Abashi76]

Girls don't hit very often ... and guys seem to glorify violence in relationships more.

I don't think I'd let a girl get away with punching me, never talk to her again and maybe sue; though I don't think hitting back would solve anything. I'd always tell her, if she wanted to hit me, she could do it with an open hand; but not something that could inflict bodily injury or anything.


No. I would just away from the argument, not to mention it would make me feel like shit anyway if I hit a woman. It's never been in my nature to hit a woman, even if she was being an ass. If you really need her to know that she was being a dick their are OTHER ways of getting her back, you don't have to resort to the ol' backhand.

I agree, though better he hit her with a backhand than with his palm; other way around from a girl/woman, better with her palm (harmless & sexy). I have a reason for this double standard.

Unfortunately, everybody here in California think its kool for guys to slap people, especially girls. Yet, the whole idea of a girl doing the same thing is ridiculed, and nobody thinks it even happens in the real world. I loath this state, the people here are the worst people in the entire world, other than maybe the Taliban.

[CelestialBlade]

Hitting doesn't prove anything, so guy or girl, I wouldn't do anything.

Now if something came down to self-defense, I don't care who you are, I'm going to debilitate you.

[amtalx]

I've been hit by a girl. I didn't hit her back, but I did made her feel terrible about it afterward.

[beatrixkiddo]

Sammich bish!

Anyway. I rarely find any reason to hit people of either gender, so it doesn't matter to me :3

[McLaughlin]

I'd never hit a woman.

[Kylie]

I lol'd.

I might hit the bitch back, but I'm not a very violent person. I'd probably just shrug and leave, be the better person, or use my words. :-? I might even cry depending on the situation because nothing stresses me out more than some good ol' conflict.

[AlexCraig]

I don't think I could do it. Never had to (mostly because I try to avoid such confrontations). Even if a guy hit me, I'd try to back off.

Now, as Typheros said, if it came to self-defense, I would kick the other person's ass.

[Zorafim]

My rule of thumb is, if they're ready to throw the punch, they're ready to receive one. If she has the strength to hurt you, there's no reason why she doesn't have the strength to receive a strike.

That being said, it's hardly necessary to hit her back, female or not. I can't think of an argument where physical force is really necessary. If you can't stand back and speak logically, you're better off just walking away.

[Darkly]

they only thing i'd like to add is that only under self defence would i strike back.

[thunder-ray]

I wouldnt hit a girl depending on the situation. If shes just hitting me with her palm or her fist I can take a hit from those. But if she got a wepaon or something that can stab me with im knocking her out. I usually stay away from girls that try to fight me. Most times when ever ive been hit by a girl she usually felt bad about hitting me. Then they said they were sorry the next day. After they hit me however I usually kept my distance from them knowing that they might be willing to do it again. If you have to defend yourself from a girl with a weapon thats understandable but is she's just using her palm or her fists then ether take the hits or walk away. This is just what I would do if it were me.

[Para]

It really depends... before I strike back... gotta think of consequences...


Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.

[Mman2000]

Let's just say if someone hits me they better hope I don't grab their arm/hand. If I do, they'll know what a vice grip feels like. I have no qualms with knocking the crap out of a girl who thinks she has a right to hit me. If you want me to keep my hands to myself I suggest you do the same.

[Toadthroat]

Let's just say if someone hits me they better hope I don't grab their arm/hand. If I do, they'll know what a vice grip feels like. I have no qualms with knocking the crap out of a girl who thinks she has a right to hit me. If you want me to keep my hands to myself I suggest you do the same.

You live up to your name good sir.

And people, don't get caught up on the fact that you're having an argument. The main point of this thread is "IS IT OKAY TO SMACK A BITCH AFTER SHE HITS YOU?"
I brought this because a few of my friends were talking about it. My own personal opinion is if a woman is tuff enuff to hit you, shes tuff enuff to get hit back. But my friend and my female friend say that its not okay to hit a woman, under no circumstances.

[CelestialBlade]

Taking the argument element out of this, regardless of gender, I will use physical force on someone in self-defense only.

[Leviathan]

It's never right to hit people.

If I got hit I would cry probably, I can't take pain.

However I'm surprised that most of you guys would hit back.

Wtf happened to being the better man?<Or woman.>

[UnderscoreX]

Wow, no.

It's more principle than anything else, if you're not going to hit one girl you shouldn't hit any regardless of how buff and or ugly she is.

[CelestialBlade]

The idea that men shouldn't hit women developed from the idea that women are harmless and are incapable of holding their own in a fight, ever. So isn't the entire idea rather insulting?

[Siertes]

The idea that men shouldn't hit women developed from the idea that women are harmless and are incapable of holding their own in a fight, ever. So isn't the entire idea rather insulting?

Agreed. The idea that men shouldn't hit women for any reason is in itself pretty damn sexist. We've all been indoctrinated with that idea since childhood which in turn only reinforces the idea that women are frail little creatures that couldn't hurt you if they tried and need their dainty hands held.

[Shadowpawn]

Agreed. The idea that men shouldn't hit women for any reason is in itself pretty damn sexist. We've all been indoctrinated with that idea since childhood which in turn only reinforces the idea that women are frail little creatures that couldn't hurt you if they tried and need their dainty hands held.


I guess you could look at it from that perspective, however, I really don't feel the need to hit a woman. Look at half the shit women have to put up with through out most of their lives, regardless if she's angry or not I'm not gonna to hit her (unless she's trying to kill me, then I'm sorry but you got to go). Half of the time she's going to feel like shit afterward anyway. However if it's a continuing thing then either me and her our going to have to talk about this or I'm breaking it off.

It's not about whatever she's bigger or stronger than me or not, that's just my own principle.

[Nitro Vordex]

I really don't feel the need to hit a woman...

This.

Plus generally, I don't hit people, and I don't like confrontation.

[Syl]

I know a couple of feisty girls who could probably either mess me up pretty badly or kick my ass >_>

Even so, I'm somewhat of a pacifist. If I end up hurting anyone, you know that it's serious business. Depending on who it is though would affect how I would react. Most likely wouldn't do any physical harm unless she was trying to hurt me badly or kill me.

[SpikeOtacon]

I try my hardest to only act physically in self defense, and whatever martial arts I took as a kid had taught me techniques for strictly stopping the other person's attacks rather than causing damage to them. Luckily for me I don't get into scraps so I can continue putting numbers on my "Number of days since a fight broke out in the workplace" sign.

That said, I do have a breaking point and should it be crossed, I would probably strike back, man or woman. A simple right hook to the face over who is doing the dishes wouldn't warrent me striking back at them (though I would question why the hell I was around the crazy bitch to begin with) but if you're grabbing me by the hair and pulverizing me I won't stop myself from twacking them one.

Would I feel like a dick after it happened? No. I view women as human beings, they don't get that extra special treatment from me just because they have a vagina. I treat everyone with the same peaceful, level playing field. If they violate my inner tree hugging hippie side, then I will remove myself from their reach. Should they cause me some absurd amount of physical harm, they deserve no more mercy than if a man was doing the exact same thing.

[pikachief]

i would never hit a girl, 98% of the time, if im hit by a girl its for something I did wrong lol

Even if it wasnt my fault, she just hit me i wouldn't hit her back >.> lol thats just me tho :P

[Tessu]

I really don't know why guys freak out so much about hitting women. What, you like the feminist type?

To be honest, I could never hit a guy hard enough to really hurt him, not because of morals but because of utter lack of physical strength. But if I did in a hypothetical situation and he hit me back, I'm not gonna go BAWWWWing about how I was justified and he wasn't because of our chromosomes.
HOWEVER, it is a bit unfair if a woman hits a man and he brushes it off but hits her back and seriously hurts her. That's not cool regardless of gender, though.

I actually have a little friend in 7th grade (now 8th). He's like, 4'9, well under 100 pounds. He's puny. On the other hand, his sister is going into college, around 5'10, and bigger and more muscular than him. According to him, she beats him up all the time at home, and whenever he tries to defend himself (in whatever way he can) his dad yells at him because he's not supposed to hit girls.
WTF, man?

[Nitro Vordex]

I just don't like hitting girls, or anyone for that matter really. ;\

[pikachief]

I just don't like hitting girls, or anyone for that matter really. ;

yea really, i would never hit a girl cuz i was raised to treat girls with good respect, and i would normal not hit a guy cuz its just dum to stoop to their level anyways, but sometimes im just angry and hit back anyways >:{ lol

[Darkly]

I created saner

http://doulifee.com//Storage/aceatt/GyakutenSaiban2/1-1ani-wellington-yank.gif

[Shadowpawn]

I really don't know why guys freak out so much about hitting women. What, you like the feminist type?

To be honest, I could never hit a guy hard enough to really hurt him, not because of morals but because of utter lack of physical strength. But if I did in a hypothetical situation and he hit me back, I'm not gonna go BAWWWWing about how I was justified and he wasn't because of our chromosomes.
HOWEVER, it is a bit unfair if a woman hits a man and he brushes it off but hits her back and seriously hurts her. That's not cool regardless of gender, though.

I actually have a little friend in 7th grade (now 8th). He's like, 4'9, well under 100 pounds. He's puny. On the other hand, his sister is going into college, around 5'10, and bigger and more muscular than him. According to him, she beats him up all the time at home, and whenever he tries to defend himself (in whatever way he can) his dad yells at him because he's not supposed to hit girls.
WTF, man?

Yeah, that's kinda messed up. He's going to remember that when he grows up, trust me. She'll get it back in due time.

[MetaZedlen]

I was always wondering if this topic was ever going to come up...

Anyway, I could pretty much NEVER bring myself to hitting a girl or woman (except for my smart-ass 13-year-old sister when she pisses me off the right way...), being that I basically have taken a "vow" to never hit women, and I was also raised this way. I respect girls and women too much to bring myself to such a low state, and if I did, I would probably have to do some serious self-discipline to make up for it...

To tell the real truth, I would probably end up killing any guy that I see with my own eyes hitting a women, and if I don't get the kill, he won't be moving for a very long time...

Now I am not trying to come off as a badass in anyway possible, it's just that any guy who lowers himself to hit a woman, then I loathe you, even if I don't know who you are.

Now, I am pretty much not a feminist in anyway, it's just that hitting a woman is a taboo to me...

[Kylie]

The idea that men shouldn't hit women developed from the idea that women are harmless and are incapable of holding their own in a fight, ever. So isn't the entire idea rather insulting?
I disagree. Well, it's not cool to hit anyone that's not on the same level as you, and (typically) women just aren't as strong as men due to the way they're built. I suppose it'd be okay to hit a women that can kick your ass as in fighting games, but I don't think it's sexist or anything to say you won't hit women, given women being weaker than men (typically) is just how it is. Typically.

[Siertes]

I disagree. Well, it's not cool to hit anyone that's not on the same level as you, and (typically) women just aren't as strong as men due to the way they're built. I suppose it'd be okay to hit a women that can kick your ass as in fighting games, but I don't think it's sexist or anything to say you won't hit women, given women being weaker than men (typically) is just how it is. Typically.

The general idea there being that there's no need to resort to physical violence if there isn't any threat to yourself physically. I just think when people start focusing on the sex factor and not graduating their thinking to a more important idea (see 1st sentence), then IMO they're failing to truly respect the idea of equality.

[Kylie]

I think there's a difference between being treated equally on a level where you can do things just as well or better (like a woman being a doctor, or lawyer, etc.) and being treated equally on a natural level, where a woman has to be pretty delusional if she thinks she's equal in that department (for one, women don't have penises :o, and also the whole muscle capacity thing). 'Tis why women aren't on the draft and should never be on the draft (if it were to be used).

Maybe it is wrong to talk in terms of gender, but it isn't quite the same as race. Women are way different from men than a white man is different from a black man (again, the penis thing ;)).

Therefore, I don't think it's wrong at all, and I doubt men are intending to discriminate as much as they are trying to be respectful when they say things like that, which are only meant generally anyways. And women being weaker than men (again, apply the t-word here) is factual enough not to just be a stereotype unlike all black people liking fried chicken and watermelon, which is a better example of a wrongful stereotype.

Although, maybe it'd be best to say you won't hit anyone on a lower level than you, and not just women. :lol: I don't think it does any harm though (for the various reasons I just stated).

[Siertes]

Pfft women aren't on the draft because they *BLOCKED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT*

[Seority]

I too believe in the equality of the sexes.
A women has the right to get hit back just as a man would if he hit someone.

I too agree that it's better to just walk away in a situation like that regaurdless of whom the other person is.

[CelestialBlade]

You can take the "women are generally weaker than men" route, and it is certainly true that, scientifically speaking, men are more prone to be more muscular than women. It's also true that this really isn't a sexist viewpoint, considering this isn't saying "don't hit women for the sake of them being women." The only problem here is, it's also saying "don't hit anyone weaker than you, period." And there's merit there, it's not like an adult male should be beating up on a male child. I can understand that viewpoint, it's just some people look at it in a purely sexist light and think women shouldn't be hit because they're "lowly women".

I dunno, I just dislike patriarchal sayings like that in an age where we are striving for racial and sexual equality. If we truly want equality, all sexes and races should be treated equal, period. It's still biased equality otherwise.

[Kylie]

Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I just think there are bigger battles to be fought. :-P

[CelestialBlade]

Ah, I see what you're saying. I guess I just think there are bigger battles to be fought. :-P
No doubt.

[Solstis]

I'm a feminist. I believe that women can be hit back. Chivalry puts women on a pedestal, but one surrounded by jagged glass shards (or lava. remember that game?). They can never come off of it, and it ends up making men the caretakers of their wee, small-minded female charges. Some women might want that, though.

However, I'm also a pacifist, so I try not to hit people (unless I'm flailing because I'm being tickled).

[SpikeOtacon]

To tell the real truth, I would probably end up killing any guy that I see with my own eyes hitting a women, and if I don't get the kill, he won't be moving for a very long time...


That's some shitty double standards you have there.

[Toadthroat]

I was always wondering if this topic was ever going to come up...

Anyway, I could pretty much NEVER bring myself to hitting a girl or woman (except for my smart-ass 13-year-old sister when she pisses me off the right way...), being that I basically have taken a "vow" to never hit women, and I was also raised this way. I respect girls and women too much to bring myself to such a low state, and if I did, I would probably have to do some serious self-discipline to make up for it...

To tell the real truth, I would probably end up killing any guy that I see with my own eyes hitting a women, and if I don't get the kill, he won't be moving for a very long time...

Now I am not trying to come off as a badass in anyway possible, it's just that any guy who lowers himself to hit a woman, then I loathe you, even if I don't know who you are.

Now, I am pretty much not a feminist in anyway, it's just that hitting a woman is a taboo to me...

That's the thing Zedlen. You were raised with that taboo in that a girl is some sacred object that should be treated with the utmost care and respect, when they're not. They're humans just like me and you, and deserve all the same treatment as men get. I can understand how you see that hitting a girl is a horrible thing. But the way I see it, if a girl really and TRULY wants to fight me I won't hesitate to give her 1 or a few across the jaw, and I sure as hell wouldn't feel bad for it.

[Sekani]

I know from personal experience that if I get pissed off enough to swing on someone their gender won't matter one bit.

[MetaZedlen]

That's the thing Zedlen. You were raised with that taboo in that a girl is some sacred object that should be treated with the utmost care and respect, when they're not. They're humans just like me and you, and deserve all the same treatment as men get. I can understand how you see that hitting a girl is a horrible thing. But the way I see it, if a girl really and TRULY wants to fight me I won't hesitate to give her 1 or a few across the jaw, and I sure as hell wouldn't feel bad for it.

... (this is for me)

I forgot to add one point, and the original post was about those guys that treat women like they are property, those are the ones I would like to fuck up, but if a woman were to come after me like previous posts, then I would probably just try to shove her away to prevent myself any serious injury, whereas not hurting her either.

[Wyndham]

I am a pacifist. I only fight back if I am in danger. I used to be a very violent person, but after i was diagnosed and medicated, i realized how horrible i treated those around me.

[Deissa]

That's the thing Zedlen. You were raised with that taboo in that a girl is some sacred object that should be treated with the utmost care and respect, when they're not. They're humans just like me and you, and deserve all the same treatment as men get. I can understand how you see that hitting a girl is a horrible thing. But the way I see it, if a girl really and TRULY wants to fight me I won't hesitate to give her 1 or a few across the jaw, and I sure as hell wouldn't feel bad for it.

Probably not the only situation you'd limit it to, but whatever

[Toadthroat]

Probably not the only situation you'd limit it to, but whatever


I don't get exactly what you're saying.
Are you calling me a wife beater or something?

[Shadowpawn]

To tell the real truth, I would probably end up killing any guy that I see with my own eyes hitting a women, and if I don't get the kill, he won't be moving for a very long time...


lol, why? That conflict has nothing to do with you. No need to get involved with another person's domestic drama. That's how people get killed.

[Uncle_bob]

Because he's an internet tough guy.

[Skuda]

I was a... hot tempered back in the day. Kids used to tease me just to see my reaction. Sometimes that didn't go down so well, as my retaliation was not biased. Boy and girl alike fell under my flailing fists.

Rage is blind.



So yeah, pointless anecdote.

[Toadthroat]

My own little personal anecdote: Regardless to what some people might believe, I've never hit a woman myself. The most I've done is give one a shove, or grab them really hard or something similar. It would take a little more for me to hit a woman than it would for me to hit a guy.

[Maskim]

You have a right to defend yourself against anyone, man or woman. If a woman were to attack me, and the situation dictated that the best option were to stand and fight, you're damn right I'd kick a chick's teeth in as soon as a dude's.

[Wyndham]

I was a... hot tempered back in the day. Kids used to tease me just to see my reaction. Sometimes that didn't go down so well, as my retaliation was not biased. Boy and girl alike fell under my flailing fists.

Rage is blind.



So yeah, pointless anecdote.

wow, i can say I was like that.

[Abashi76]

I agree with Zedlen.

And yes, grown men shouldn't hit back 10 year old boys either; unless necessary to prevent bodily injury.

Also, women can't hit back if the man is stronger; if she can't, why should you?

[CelestialBlade]

Saying you're going to kill someone because they did something your belief system doesn't agree with is the very reason we have wars.

[Abashi76]

Gender equality is impossible, since nature created them very differently. Those of you who are using this as an argument to strike women, take that in consideration. Poor reasoning skills on your part. Women need special protection, if they are to get any where near the position of men.

[SpikeOtacon]

Gender equality is impossible, since nature created them very differently. Those of you who are using this as an argument to strike women, take that in consideration. Poor reasoning skills on your part. Women need special protection, if they are to get any where near the position of men.

You make it sound as if women are made of glass. They are not.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

As a person who's been doing martial arts for like 7 years and can probably beat up most people, I would definitely say I will not hit a woman. I would never hit anyone that is physically weaker than me or is unable to fight back. If someone gets violent and uses a weapon, then I'll do what I must to defend myself, but I'll only do the minimum amount of force necessary.

[Nitro Vordex]

You make it sound as if women are made of glass. They are not.

Sometimes they are.

And sometimes they're made of fiberglass. >_>;

[Solstis]

Gender equality is impossible, since nature created them very differently. Those of you who are using this as an argument to strike women, take that in consideration. Poor reasoning skills on your part. Women need special protection, if they are to get any where near the position of men.

You must not know many women. Or not many women that are allowed to think for themselves.

[Nai_Calus]

This thread has caused me to lose a great deal of respect for most of the people in it.

The idea that all women are fragile little flowers that must be protected and sheltered from the Big Bad World disgusts me and makes me physically ill.

[Tessu]

Women need special protection, if they are to get any where near the position of men.

If women are being specially protected, how will they ever advance?

EDIT: Not saying I agree with the notion, but just pointing that out.

[Nitro Vordex]

I've already stated my point. I don't like hitting people/fighting in any way. Women, I don't like hitting them either. Simple.

[Delete]

No need for me to read but only the first post here. I have never hit a women (even when one did scratch me once and i was bleeding, i was like 5) And i will never hit one no matter what. Its just something you dont do.

[Jainsea]

Just walk away, its the best option to do. Even if she did uppercut/hit
you, and you hit her back, when people/ friends/family here about that; what do you think
they gonna focus on? Since they are not likely to know all the details(even if they do)
They going be all like omg He hit her! What a monster/jerk. However like lots of people said
if she just keeps on and she's really hurting you or if she has a weapon, then if she gets hurt
while you defend yourself thats her fault. In a normal situation like the OP said I'd just be like
"Nothing intelligent to say so you had to resort to hitting me huh?" Then I'd walk off.
I'd never hit a women and I'd like to keep it that way >.>

[Kent]

...Having had a girlfriend at one point that could be very short-tempered and very violent...Well... :/

No, I wouldn't. Just take it and go on.

Part of the reason, is that I tend not to hit people that I care about. The other part, is that I wouldn't strike a lady for any conceivable/realistic reason... On top of the fact that violence is reserved as the last resort of last resorts, so to speak.

Just because someone else felt that violence was necessary, doesn't mean that it's necessary to retaliate... Nor does it mean it's deserved. I have a lot of personal beliefs and such related to violence and related to women that I refuse to not adhere to. You could call it some modernized tenet of chivalric intent if you wanted to, 'cause that's pretty close.

[DoubleJG]

Depends on the woman & the situation. If it were someone I cared about, it's more my style to have them hit me and just leave for a bit, making them realize they did wrong. Sure, an eye for an eye works some times, but I guess this all comes down to the situation.

[Seority]

I hope everyone knows that "Ladys" don't exsist anymore. The Equal Rights Amendment took care of that. Also, any countries that still state women are different, acctually allow the men to physically abuse them if they please for women are less then men out there. We all have the same rights now. None of us are special according to our race/sex, therefor, we don't deserve special treatment.
I know for a fact that women can be way more harsher and vulgar then men, and oddly enough, most women are worse then men in this status. Just because the media says for us, as women, to grow up with dolls, as boys play with toy trucks doesn't mean we can't grow up and still shoot you, men, with a gun.
Just because our body structures are different doesn't mean we can't hurt them just as much as they can hurt us.
If anything, most women still beat their men because they believe they can get away with it. However, just like men, if they knew that they could (more like SHOULD) get hit back, I don't think they would in the first place. We as humans do things "bad" when we believe we can get away with it.
With that being said, I wouldn't punch a man anymore then I'd want to punch a women. Oddly enough, I've wanted to smack more women then men from all the people I've met. If I do punch someone, I'd do it knowing they can swing back, but I have already explained that I would not resort to violence to end an argument. The phrase "Hitting a Woman if you are a Guy" simply states if you really see everyone as equal. As a question to if you believe people deserve different treatment because of a factor they can not choose upon.
I believe we are all equal and deserve the same treatment as one another. I still dislike the fact that I'm discluded from things because I am a women, and also get upset when people give me extra also just because I'm a women. I'm not going to tell other people what they should believe, but I know that what is real should be known. Women can be just as strong, or even stronger, then men, just as men can be more agile then women. If you put yourself into a situation where you would lose, don't expect to win just because you have a vagina.
If you have some reason that hurting someone who hurts you is a wrong thing to do, I'm not going to stop you. I just think you should look at what is really fair in that situation. I believe what I do because I believe it's right. Believe what you think is right to you, even if it sounds odd to me.

[Seority]

I agree with Zedlen.

And yes, grown men shouldn't hit back 10 year old boys either; unless necessary to prevent bodily injury.

Also, women can't hit back if the man is stronger; if she can't, why should you?

My point: She shouldn't of ever hit the guy knowing he was stronger in the first place.
Just because she has a vagina doesn't make it right for her to do that just because the other person has a penis.

[Sekani]

I'm a women
*chuckle*

Seriously though, notice how the only people who think that it's wrong to hit a woman are all men? The three or four women who've posted in here so far have all said that any girl who wants to swing on a guy should expect the same in return, and I agree with them.

But instead, society gives us more "Waiting to Exhale" crap where women can do whatever the fuck they want to a guy with no remorse, and men are vilified for taking a fraction of the "revenge" they do.

[Shadowpawn]

I'm surprised at the amount of people fixated on the words, penis and vagina, in this topic.

[Kent]

I hope everyone knows that "Ladys" don't exsist anymore. The Equal Rights Amendment took care of that.
Eh... I would say that "ladies" exist in the same sense that "gentlemen" do.

That is, in the sense of being a polite, refined, and civilized person. As surprising as it may seem, people like this do still exist nowadays. Nothing about the Equal Rights Amendment has had anything to do with the common/modern equivocation of what a "lady" is.

[Solstis]

Eh... I would say that "ladies" exist in the same sense that "gentlemen" do.

That is, in the sense of being a polite, refined, and civilized person. As surprising as it may seem, people like this do still exist nowadays. Nothing about the Equal Rights Amendment has had anything to do with the common/modern equivocation of what a "lady" is.

The gentleman, historically, was at the root of the slave trade (only so many could afford to be gentlemen and dandies [yes, somewhat distinct group]). Not to mention the suppression of women's rights. I think you can see why some people would want to distance themselves from that.

Ladies, well, really weren't allowed to do anything, aside from a few outliers. Well, I do believe that they could invest in the stock market, way back when they weren't allowed to own anything else.

Also, the term "civilized" is such a weighted term that I am absolutely sure that you're an engineer of some sort (computer or otherwise). Go find a Liberal Arts major and argue with him/her. I'm dating an Engineer/sciencey person, and I know that I'll end up feeling stupid if I continue discussing this.

Something like this would happen:

So you're wrong Kent, wrong! No, it's not just a matter of semantics! I hate you, you're so narrow minded! Oh, sorry, I didn't mean-no, wait... aw crap.

So, whatever. Just don't take being a gentleman or yourself too seriously.

[Seority]

To side with what Solstis replied, you can be a civilized and polite person without being racist. I find a person to be more civilized when they agree with equal rights.

[Altaneen]

I would headbutt her in the face, then bite her throat cause I'm an internet tough guy. If she knew I was stronger she should have thought before punching, and her neck wouldn't get bit

[Kion]

My rule of thumb is, if they're ready to throw the punch, they're ready to receive one. If she has the strength to hurt you, there's no reason why she doesn't have the strength to receive a strike.

That being said, it's hardly necessary to hit her back, female or not. I can't think of an argument where physical force is really necessary. If you can't stand back and speak logically, you're better off just walking away.

In terms of hitting a girl it really depends. I've met a lot of girls that are physically fit and could knock someone down with a solid punch. I took karate with girls and it wasn't a problem sparring as we were both used to each other's abilities and comfort levels. I knew that throwing a punch they'd be able to serve it right back.


The idea that men shouldn't hit women developed from the idea that women are harmless and are incapable of holding their own in a fight, ever. So isn't the entire idea rather insulting?

The question is more, "would you hit someone weaker than you?" as you can think of kids as an analogy. Kids will some times hit you, there's no reason to use full force back. You can wrestle, toss them around or fight handicap. Same with women, the idea of chivalry that women are weak and shouldn't be hit is insulting to them. Treat them as people, you don't need to use full force, but don't end up being the bitch taking it and walking away it really solves nothing as they'll think they can get away with it. Stick around, be cool, talk, and show initiative with out necessarily hurting them.

[Seority]

If the weaker person throws the first punch, it's their fault if they get punched back by the stronger one they just punched. You shouldn't hit someone and think it's ok, reguardless of who you are.

[Abashi76]

*chuckle*

Seriously though, notice how the only people who think that it's wrong to hit a woman are all men? The three or four women who've posted in here so far have all said that any girl who wants to swing on a guy should expect the same in return, and I agree with them.

But instead, society gives us more "Waiting to Exhale" crap where women can do whatever the fuck they want to a guy with no remorse, and men are vilified for taking a fraction of the "revenge" they do.

Women are not allowed to go topless, but men are. Why is that double standard ok, but not the one your mentioning?

Why is it ok to discriminate on the basis of gender when it comes to dress code, but not ok to discriminate on issues involving violence?

Everybody likes to say that its wrong for a guy to get in more trouble for hitting a girl, than for a girl to hit a guy. Why isn't it also wrong to say that its a crime for a girl to be topless, but socially acceptable for a guy?

Women are certainly getting the short end here: you can't discriminate and protect women more than men, but you can restrict women from certain activities that are legal for men. Men, not women like we're told to believe, have it both ways in America.

I hate the gender views in this county; you all call me a hypocrite, but its actually YOU ALL that are.


My point: She shouldn't of ever hit the guy knowing he was stronger in the first place.
Just because she has a vagina doesn't make it right for her to do that just because the other person has a penis.

Its legal for a man to go topless, but illegal for a woman since she has breasts. If we can discriminate on the basis of having breasts, why can't we discriminate on the basis of genitalia?

I'm sure your all ok for it to be legal for a man to dress topless and not for a woman. Yet you all say its wrong to classify violence against women to be worse than violence against men. Why is one double standard ok, but the other is not?

[Toadthroat]

Its legal for a man to go topless, but illegal for a woman since she has breasts. If we can discriminate on the basis of having breasts, why can't we discriminate on the basis of genitalia?



Non sequitor.
Women can't go topless because the breasts are considered sexually arousing and should not be bore to the public.
Men's tits are not.
Regardless, whats between a person's legs shouldn't make a difference when it comes to domestic violence.
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKKK you have to be trolling me.
"No, I'm not wrong. EVERYONE ELSE IS!"
damsdlkmasdlkasmdlksndgkjlsdngsdngjhfb df

[Abashi76]

Non sequitor.
Women can't go topless because the breasts are considered sexually arousing and should not be bore to the public.
Men's tits are not.
Regardless, whats between a person's legs shouldn't make a difference when it comes to domestic violence.
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKKK you have to be trolling me.
"No, I'm not wrong. EVERYONE ELSE IS!"
damsdlkmasdlkasmdlksndgkjlsdngsdngjhfb df

So therefor its ok to discriminate on the basis of gender in order to prevent sexual arousal, but not to protect the weak.

Those of you who are in favor of mens slapping women use the argument that you can't have gender discrimination, therefor you should be able to do it to them. Yet, you are for gender discrimination, and another issue just goes to show that. Your sexually apologetic, and a lot of you are actually sexually aroused by men slapping women around. Your afraid of 'sexual' behavior, so you engage in slapping women around for arousal, since its far more acceptable than exposing breasts or some other 'lude' behavior.

Those of you in favor of hitting women just scream and yell at me when I disagree, and you won't accept anybody else's opinion.

There are tons of laws that specify gender, but its only wrong if its in favor of women. When its in favor of men ( eg: men go topless, women can't) its not only acceptable, but a necessary law. You think women should have more restrictions for being women, but men should not. You call me a hypocrite for advocating a double standard; but you believe in them whenever they are popular.

YOU WONT ALLOW ANYBODY TO HAVE AN OPINION THAT DIFFERS FROM YOUR OWN.

[Inazuma]

women want equal rights? lol.

- when on a date at a restaurant, you will always get seperate checks.
- open your own doors
- women will fight in wars alongside the men
- when a married couple gets divorced, everyone keeps their own money and belongings
- and in order for a man to pay child support, you will need to get his agreement in writing before you conceive the baby.


do you still want equal rights?

[Shadowpawn]

women want equal rights? lol.

- when on a date at a restaurant, you will always get seperate checks.
- open your own doors
- women will fight in wars alongside the men
- when a married couple gets divorced, everyone keeps their own money and belongings
- and in order for a man to pay child support, you will need to get his agreement in writing before you conceive the baby.


do you still want equal rights?

Not only did that sound sexist but incredibly shallow. Most women DO offer to pay half the bill on a date, some women get offended if you do hold the door open for them, women are fighting alongside men in wars, belongings are usually split up between the original owners in a divorce (unless one of them seeks some sort of restitution from either party) and child support depends on who is the breadwinner, not gender (hello Kevin and Brittney!)

I mean seriously, did you think about what you were about to post before doing so?

[Toadthroat]

The child support system is biased against men. I can say this truthfully because I know men who have gone through it and most of the time the judge is pre-disposed to give women the break over men.

[Siertes]

Man I wish women could go topless without incident. Not for the arousal of it, but actually for the opposite. If that crap wasn't considered such a taboo to be hidden and ashamed of I wouldn't be so damn distracted by them XD

To give no more thought to a woman's chest than a man's...that's some piece of mind I could really go for right now ;)

[Abashi76]

This is why women tend not to get into gaming, the male majority is always bashing and ranting about the female sex; and when anybody says anything even remotely insulting towards men, y'all go apeshit, screaming and yelling.

You condemn me for not liking it when men strike women, yet you seem to have the reverse opinion. I'm a hypocrite, but you are not, how is that supposed to work? Not only that, but your equal right, now I can bitch slap you across the face argument is not consistent down the board at all. Of course you want laws to sexually repress women more, not allowing them to dress topless, and it being taboo for women to engage in any physical contact in public; while men can.

You favor equal rights when in favor of your misogynist ideas; but oppose them when they support women. You accuse me of doing the same, you accuse feminists of all being evil hypocrites, for wanting to have lives of their own, but wanting to be protected by violence at the same time. Is this wrong, according to you, yes its hypocritical. The American youth are totally hypocritical, more so than the staunchest feminists. Saying that anybody against "slapping bitches" is a sexist; than spouting off about how evil women are, and should not be allowed to do this and that. Of course your all in favor of locking a woman into a jail cell and calling her a sex offender for dressing topless; while at the same time she should receive no extra protection by the law. Laws in this country most punish women, the opposite of what this generation is told to believe.

F!@# YOU!!!

[Abashi76]

Man I wish women could go topless without incident. Not for the arousal of it, but actually for the opposite. If that crap wasn't considered such a taboo to be hidden and ashamed of I wouldn't be so damn distracted by them XD

To give no more thought to a woman's chest than a man's...that's some piece of mind I could really go for right now ;)

Yes, we should be ashamed of the womans' body and not the mans'. However, we should not feel ashamed about hurting them in any physical manner, and they should receive no special protections; just special restrictions.

And yes, this generation must yell, scream, and even beat me up, for questioning they're rabidly anti-feminist views. They say feminists are nazis, but they're the ones that shout and scream and get violent if any free thinking person such as myself dares to have another opinion.

Everybody I ever met thinks that its kool for men to slap women/girls around, and that feminists are all evil, and that women are moral inferiors, and that they're bodies are shameful and must be forcely hidden by law. They say that the evil feminists are hypocritical "nazis" for wanting "equal rights" but still wanting protection. They say its such a moral outrage and scream about it, but they contradict they're own arguments on other issues. What fucking hypocrites these male shovies are. I was the only one to ever have a different opinion who is in my generation, I have yet to meet a single person who was against hitting girls or consistently supported equal rights, in my entire life. In fact, guys I met thought it was kool for guys to slap girls around, but wrong for girls to get away with it; yet guys should be able to get away with it. I'm the only radical free thinker around here.

[TheOneHero]

Oh man, I can't wait till you learn about women elsewhere in the world, Abashi.

Also: inb4lock :wacko:

Edit: Use the edit button instead of double posting. :(

[Abashi76]

Oh man, I can't wait till you learn about women elsewhere in the world, Abashi.

Also: inb4lock :wacko:

Edit: Use the edit button instead of double posting. :(

Elsewhere in the world, people don't go around screaming about how feminists are evil hypocrites, that they should be able to beat the shyt of women in the name of equal rights; yet don't even support equal rights.

Not to mention, all the girls in my generation cater to these male chauvinists; most girls my age get slapped around by their boyfriends, and everybody thinks its sexually attractive.

Where I live, its wrong to say anything good about women, or bad about men. When discussing women, every generalization must be negative or else your a feminazi. When discussing men, every statement must be positive, or your a feminazi. Its only ok to say bad things about women, and when I say anything good about the female gender; I get screamed at and ridiculed. Likewhise, if I say anything remotely negative about males, people jump in my face and try to hit me.

Everybody I ever met and known that was in my generation was a misogynist, I was the only exception. Everybody hated me for that, ironically even women. Only guys that beat their girlfriends and treat them like property, get any respect at all from society. Since I don't wish to treat any girl I meat in this matter, I'll always remain alone and loveless for life; that is unless I move to another place, in which I am incapable of doing.

[TheOneHero]

Your high school is not everybody else in America.

And, yes, people do go around "screaming about feminists are evil hypocrites" in other parts of the world.

[Siertes]

Elsewhere in the world, people don't go around screaming about how feminists are evil hypocrites, that they should be able to beat the shyt of women in the name of equal rights; yet don't even support equal rights.

Not to mention, all the girls in my generation cater to these male chauvinists; most girls my age get slapped around by their boyfriends, and everybody thinks its sexually attractive.

I really hate when people apply their small bubble of perception to everyone and everything =/

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with feminists as long as they're true feminists; meaning they want gender equality and not special treatment/a role reversal from our current male dominated society to a female one. Intelligent people should see the difference.

[Abashi76]

Your high school is not everybody else in America.

And, yes, people do go around "screaming about feminists are evil hypocrites" in other parts of the world.

Everybody in southern California is like that, there are no exceptions, unless they are over 50 years old.


I really hate when people apply their small bubble of perception to everyone and everything =/

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with feminists as long as they're true feminists; meaning they want gender equality and not special treatment/a role reversal from our current male dominated society to a female one. Intelligent people should see the difference.

Why is it ok to believe in a male dominated society, but wrong to want a female one?

[Shadowpawn]

The child support system is biased against men. I can say this truthfully because I know men who have gone through it and most of the time the judge is pre-disposed to give women the break over men.


Yeah but think of about who makes the most money out of the two. Chances are it's the men, if it were reversed the women wouldn't have it so easy.

[TheOneHero]

...talked to everyone in southern California, did we?

I have many dear friends there actually, male and female, and they are the opposite of what you're accusing them of.

I highly suggest you choose your words carefully in life, they'll get you into trouble if they don't change. I sincerely mean that and not in a threatening way.

[Siertes]

Why is it ok to believe in a male dominated society, but wrong to want a female one?

It's not ok and if you thought I was saying that then you aren't really listening to what I'm saying. Society shouldn't be dominated by any single gender. That's the equality true feminists should be hoping for.

[Abashi76]

...talked to everyone in southern California, did we?

I have many dear friends there actually, male and female, and they are the opposite of what you're accusing them are.

I highly suggest you choose your words carefully in life, they'll get you into trouble if they don't change. I sincerely mean that and not in a threatening way.

Where in SoCal? Here in San Diego, everybody is in support of male chauvinism with in my age rank, since its a military complex. The women hear cater to them, saying of course female chauvinism is wrong, YET THEY SUPPORT CHAUVINISM FROM THE MEN. Everybody is like that around here, feminists are evil, blah blah blah, but its ok to think that men should rule, and them women are morally inferior and deserve to be bitch slapped and kept in line, blah, blah, blah. If I said the reverse of what guys around here always say about girls, I'd get the shyt beaten out of me.

[TheOneHero]

Abashi~ L.A., Palm Springs, and your good ol' San Diego.

I really do respect your honor for women though Abashi. I myself have the belief that they should be treated equal and I show that whenever I'm in contact with one where I live.

But I can't stand to see your blatant attack on everyone and classifying everyone as what most people call, "women haters". There's a big difference between, "majority of people I've been in contact with" and "everyone".

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Man I wish women could go topless without incident. Not for the arousal of it, but actually for the opposite. If that crap wasn't considered such a taboo to be hidden and ashamed of I wouldn't be so damn distracted by them XD

To give no more thought to a woman's chest than a man's...that's some piece of mind I could really go for right now ;)

Now that you bring that up, when I was a kid, I didn't really understand why people thought of a woman's boobs as a bad thing to show until later on.

[Inazuma]

im all for bare titties. but what if fat and/or ugly women decide to go topless? its bad enough when unattractive ppl (male or female) wear revealing clothing.

there are other places in the world where women's breasts arent taboo. ive been to greece for a month and i must have seen at least 300 different pairs of bare breasts. on the beach, postcards, magazines, television, bare breasts were everywhere and it was a perfectly normal thing.

i was about 12 years old at the time, so it was a little, err, "hard" for me to be in such an environment. i would sometimes have to make a trip into the water at the beach, if you know what i mean :P
just sit in the water and admire the beautiful scenery all around me...

[Weeaboolits]

Don't hit.

[Abashi76]

Abashi~ L.A., Palm Springs, and your good ol' San Diego.

I really do respect your honor for women though Abashi. I myself have the belief that they should be treated equal and I show that whenever I'm in contact with one where I live.

But I can't stand to see your blatant attack on everyone and classifying everyone as what most people call, "women haters". There's a big difference between, "majority of people I've been in contact with" and "everyone".

Alright, ty for comments ^_^

[Chuck_Norris]

I knew it was a matter of time before an argument like this popped up. :lol:

[Seority]

So, just because we can't all go skanky and be topless in public, means it's ok for us to beat men and not get hit back?
Yes things can never be absolutly 100% "fair" between men and women. Heaven forbid we are actually different!
We're not allowed, as women, to go topless in school, neither are the guys (generally), just like men arn't allowed to wear mini-skirts in school, just like us (generally). You may not agree with the reason, but dress-codes and violent charges are NOT the same.
If you are weaker then someone else, DONT START THE GOD-DAMN FIGHT.
Pardon my french...

What you said:
So therefor its ok to discriminate on the basis of gender in order to prevent sexual arousal, but not to protect the weak

Abashi, you are putting false words in our mouths. We said, if you start the fight, man or women, don't expect it to be ok. That is not fair. If a weaker person gets beat up by a stronger person, and didn't do anything to arouse such actions (say hitting them first as the main example), then yes, it's a shame.

Again you said:
Those of you who are in favor of mens slapping women use the argument that you can't have gender discrimination, therefor you should be able to do it to them. Yet, you are for gender discrimination, and another issue just goes to show that. Your sexually apologetic, and a lot of you are actually sexually aroused by men slapping women around. Your afraid of 'sexual' behavior, so you engage in slapping women around for arousal, since its far more acceptable than exposing breasts or some other 'lude' behavior.

We are in favor of, if they (whomever they may be) starts the fight, we are not going to back down (even if they are the oppisite gender) if we wish to continue it.
I'm sexually aroused by men hitting me? Who the hell do you think you are???
If a man comes up to me an hits me, I'm not going to fucking moan and say "Do it again!". I'm going to kick that bastards balls in! Same thing if a women approched me in the same situation. I don't discriminate. You hit me, I'm going to fucking hit you back, just as hard or harder.


There a shit load of difference between punching your bf's face, violently, then getting slightly slapped on the ass, sudjestivly, from your bf.
I can't make this anymore f*ing clearer for you. Well maybe I can.
[spoiler-box]
Abashi: -punches bf-
BF: "WTF?!?"
Abashi: "Ha ha! You can't hit me back! Unless I can take off my shirt like you."
BF: "...ok"
Abashi: -takes off shirt-
BF: -gropes her-
Abashi: "WTF are you doing!? Pervert!!" -beats the shit out of her bf-
BF: -bleeding from the nose, kicks Abashi out of defense-
Abashi: "How could you? I'm taking this to court!!"
Judge: "Abashi, you have been found guilty upon the charge of assult upon your bf."
Abashi: "What?!? He kicked me! I'm the weaker one here! That's not fair!"
Judge: "You made him bleed. He's in the hospital for Christ's sake! And there are no marks on you."
Abashi: "But he groped me! He sexually harassed me!! He's the one that deserves the punishment!"
Judge: "Didn't you have your shirt off?"
Abashi: "....yes."
Judge: "Then it was fair right? I believe you even said so yourself."
Abashi: "...but I'm the weaker one!!!!!!" -gets handcuffed as bf lays in hospital bed-
[/spoiler-box]

[Nitro Vordex]

Don't hit.

[spoiler-box]Fuck off character limit[/spoiler-box]

[Sekani]

Is it wrong that I want to punch Abashi in the face?

Fuck it, he has the honor of being the second person on this forum that gets put on my ignore list.

You are not a free thinker. Through your massive generalizations and refusal to accept any opinion that is not your own you are nothing more than a brain-dead fool, the very personification of the bigotry and intolerance that is what's wrong with the youth of America today.

And don't think I missed the irony in that it's the same bigotry and intolerance you constantly rant and rave about. Oh no, it's that you have become what you hate which makes you a social failure of legendary proportions.

Good luck in the real world, kid. You'll need it.

P.S.: *points to location*

[Abashi76]

So, there is a law that favors men; but you all say there should be NO LAWS that favor women? Talk about fairness, the OP was the one preaching about fairness. Apparently he does not believe in it at all. Pretty much what people are saying is: we should get rid of all laws that favor women, but keep all laws that favor men. Both the OP and Sekani are going to be added to my ignore list.

[Toadthroat]

Talk about fairness, the OP was the one preaching about fairness. Apparently he does not believe in it at all.

What.

[Nitro Vordex]

So, there is a law that favors men; but you all say there should be NO LAWS that favor women?*Looks through thread*
*does it again*
*one more time*
Nope, that was never said or even implied.

Talk about fairness, the OP was the one preaching about fairness. Apparently he does not believe in it at all. Like Toadthroat said, What.
Pretty much what people are saying is: we should get rid of all laws that favor women, but keep all laws that favor men.No. That's not what was pretty much said. What is being said, is that the gender of the person should be irrelevant in the case of laws.

[Solstis]

So, there is a law that favors men; but you all say there should be NO LAWS that favor women? Talk about fairness, the OP was the one preaching about fairness. Apparently he does not believe in it at all. Pretty much what people are saying is: we should get rid of all laws that favor women, but keep all laws that favor men. Both the OP and Sekani are going to be added to my ignore list.

You really need to get out more. I'm just seeing a lot of wildly directed High-school angst.

Let me just say that a lot of the things you think are vital or unjust now will be sweet pancakes to what you discover later.

[McLaughlin]

So, there is a law that favors men; but you all say there should be NO LAWS that favor women? Talk about fairness, the OP was the one preaching about fairness. Apparently he does not believe in it at all. Pretty much what people are saying is: we should get rid of all laws that favor women, but keep all laws that favor men. Both the OP and Sekani are going to be added to my ignore list.

I'm sorry, where in the blue hell did this come from?

Not only has no one brought up anything related to gender-biased laws, but the OP was a simple question, not a life-lesson on fairness.

Do you even read the replies you're getting? Or do you just hit Quote and regurgitate your opinion until everyone else has given up and left so you can declare yourself the victor?

You had a fairly good point in bringing up the issue of male vs female toplessness (in my mind), but that quickly degenerated into "EVERYONE HATES WOMENS' RIGHTS AND ITS TRUE BECAUSE OF THIS ONE EXAMPLE I GAVE."

Off the top of my head, I can think of two occasions where the bias is against a man: Parental Custody and Child Support. If I bothered to think about it I could probably come up with some more.

No one here (that I can see) is anti-feminist. Maybe they appear that way to you because you seem to have a very different (wrong) definition of "feminist." A feminist wants equality. What you appear to desire is a role-reversal.

EDIT: As for the actual issue of indecent exposure, I thought of a reason. Breasts are, I suppose, a reproductive organ (used to breastfeed babies). If a man walked around without any pants he'd be charged under the same law.

[Nitro Vordex]

Breasts are secondary sex characteristics; meaning they're not directly related to reproduction, but rather for gender identification.

(That's pretty much straight from Wikipedia)

[Toadthroat]

Breasts are sexually arousing. Not fit for public exposure.

[Nitro Vordex]

Yep. I'm not denying that.

baby

[Weeaboolits]

Breasts are sexually arousing. Not fit for public exposure.What if you're a leg man?

[Nitro Vordex]

Then you got your priorites straight.

Is this topic still alive?

[thunder-ray]

I also wonder if this topic is still alive or not. After reading the other pages I noticed someone deceided to talk about men and women laws. I though the topic of this thread was about hitting women.

[Toadthroat]

Its reasonable that someone would bring up the equality of laws between men and women, its a relevant topic of discussion buuuuuuuuuuuuuut... I didn't expect a HUGE feminist rant that had NO sort of coherent argument.
I'm not willing to call the topic dead just yet tho. :3

[thunder-ray]

I usually stay away from feminst rants since its rather pointless to complain about feminist.

[SabZero]

You say that as if feminism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism) is a bad thing.

[Toadthroat]

Feminism isn't bad, in moderation. But like any train of thought, you take it too far and it gets annoying/obnoxious/retarded etc.
Just like I don't have anything against Christianity but the Westboro Baptist Church on the other hand...

[thunder-ray]

Oh I didnt mean it was a bad thing, I just usually stay away from it when it turns into a big arguement like what happen here.

[Seority]

What.

[Adriano]

Does kicking count.

[Tessu]

I don't believe feminism is bad. However, often people who call themselves "feminists" cross a line and become sexist, thinking ALL MEN ARE PIGS AND WOMEN DESERVE BETTER RIGHTS.

Personally, I'm neutral on the issue. I don't see anything wrong with how I'm treated or how the law treats me, and I don't really care about being able to run around without a shirt on.

[BlaizeYES]

I don't believe feminism is bad.


... it is bad, period. so, "sex and the city" and "the view" ISNT bad for growing women? but it goes to both extremes, like fat unintelligent guys that think "the man show" is awesome, and freak out whenever they see a single hot chick. both are bad


but i have to keep it short, I HAVE TO CATCH A PLANE TO TAKE OVER THE EAST COAST. FAREWELL

[Magical Trevor]

... it is bad, period. so, "sex and the city" and "the view" ISNT bad for growing women? but it goes to both extremes, like fat unintelligent guys that think "the man show" is awesome, and freak out whenever they see a single hot chick. both are bad


but i have to keep it short, I HAVE TO CATCH A PLANE TO TAKE OVER THE EAST COAST. FAREWELL


true that, but what scares me more is when 'self esteem' programs are enlisted to tell little girls (and boys for that matter) that attractiveness isn't the most important thing and that personality is the thing that counts. Now, I am not shallow by any means, and do care about personality in a chick, but attractiveness helps. How i feel about it is if someone just lets themselves go and has no pride in self apearance (both women and men) then what DO they actually care about and what does that say about their lifestyle. It also doesn't help a nation of obese kids to tell them that its 'ok to be fat if you have the right personality' when its better for their health to be fit.

Now as a male of higher intellect, i don't see the point in hitting women. why even bother? if shes pissing you off.. leave her.

I will rant more on that later.. but yeah.. getting back on topic now..

FEMINISM.. is messed up, its a confusing idea, even us men don't know WTF they want. Do they want equality? Do they want the majorty of the power? Do they want to create an ideal amazonian empire where men are slaves? Are they a bunch of lesbians like my ex's gf, whom thinks all men suck? (ok that last one was personal but true) WHAT DO THEY WANT!! XD

[SabZero]

Did you even bother to click on the link? Feminism is about equality in rights. Not about inversing the role and putting men into submission AT ALL.

[Magical Trevor]

Did you even bother to click on the link? Feminism is about equality in rights. Not about inversing the role and putting men into submission AT ALL.

Yes that is the ideal goal of feminism, yes.. but you have women that don't seem to understand that and think its all about girl power, etc etc. claiming themselves to be feminists. Giving everyone else (men and women) a bad idea on what they stand for, and confusing the outside world on what they really are about, creating stereotypes etc etc.

Give me a little credit. the last part was sarcastic to a degree.

btw i love your guardian gear link..

[Seority]

Hitting women : on topic
Feminism: off topic

o_O'

[thunder-ray]

I guess I saw this coming lol >_>

[SabZero]

Lol, allright, allright ^^

There is no tone online. Text only. ;) Make heavy use of smilies if in doubt :wacko:

[Magical Trevor]

ok we can all agree tho.. hitting women=bad right?

[Chuck_Norris]

ok we can all agree tho.. hitting women=bad right?

No. :disapprove:

As a few others have said. "If they're strong enough to throw a punch at you, they're strong enough to take one."

[Adriano]

So kicking is okay right? :wacko: :lol:

[Chuck_Norris]

So kicking is okay right? :wacko: :lol:

Only if it's a bad one. :wacko:

[Nitro Vordex]

So kicking is okay right? :wacko: :lol:

Only if your foot catches on fire and you mention a certain bird.

[washuguy]

No. I would just walk away from the argument, not to mention it would make me feel like shit anyway if I hit a woman. It's never been in my nature to hit a woman, even if she was being an ass. If you really need her to know that she was being a dick there are OTHER ways of getting her back, you don't have to resort to the ol' backhand.

simple, just look at her, don't say anything, and walk away. She'll feel dumb as shit if you just roll out on her while shes just talking out the side of her neck. Saves you time and energy, and you'll feel better, and maybe she'll see how dumb it was and want to make up or whatever, but you get the point.

[Tessu]

ok we can all agree tho.. hitting people=bad right?

Yeeup.

[washuguy]

No. :disapprove:

As a few others have said. "If they're strong enough to throw a punch at you, they're strong enough to take one."

Violence is the wong answer, but any woman willing to put you on your ass... IS NO LADY. They knew what they were doing, to hit someone due to simple argument/exchange of words is dumb. You fight to defend and protect, not to cause damage just to cause damage... So if they swing, you have the right to swing back, BUT i'll give them atleast three chances, after that... *POW POW POW*

[Ranmaru]

Well, if your mom punched in the car, would you:

a: hit her but not as hard
or
b: jump out the car!

Luckily, I was in the backseat! D:<

[Toadthroat]

Violence is the wong answer, but any woman willing to put you on your ass... IS NO LADY. They knew what they were doing, to hit someone due to simple argument/exchange of words is dumb. You fight to defend and protect, not to cause damage just to cause damage... So if they swing, you have the right to swing back, BUT i'll give them atleast three chances, after that... *POW POW POW*

This is pretty much my stance on the subject.
Though I would NEVER even THINK of hitting my mom. Under NO circumstances. Even if she came at me with a knife or a gun, I'd just run.

[Nitro Vordex]

Besides, she'd probably have a good reason. >_>;

[Chuck_Norris]

Besides, she'd probably have a good reason. >_>;

Or just be fuckin' crazy. :wacko:

[Ranmaru]

I'd feel bad for hitting them back, because I'd do it hard...so I'd wouldn't. I just scare the shit out of them with non-violent resistance.

But if I really feel I'm in danger for any reason, whether the person possesses a weapon or is in any position to cause real injury otherwise, they will immediately become fair game.

Usually, I would also use 'non-violent' resistance. Sometimes, arguments get too crazy with my parents, especially with my mom. Funnily enough, she always starts talking shit about whatever. Earlier on in life, it was her and my dad fighting, but then it started to be me and my mom fighting. Arguments are always about little things... Heres a link if you want to see how things go between me and my mother more deeply:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&blogID=325283855&Mytoken=DC0DBEA1-E991-43D5-86DC11E37D5A3FE467986458

Anyways, at this point, its really hard not to think twice and not do anything I would regret. My mother is always mad, I am always not mad. Sadly, instead of getting mad, I rarely do, and the one rare moment I do, I explode with rage and craziness, sadly.

I would never ever drink alchohol because of fear that I would do something to a spouse or partner in that I would regret for the rest of my life. I would never want to be a guy who hits his wife.

EDIT: My mom always hits first. D: Although usually I don't hit back, but ugh.... I don't know.

[Sord]

I will and have hit women, including my own mother. However, I never throw the first punch. I don't like most people even touching me. You hit me and I'm sure as hell going to hit back. Frankly I don't give a damn about the "be a better man" shit. I don't believe in chivalry. As some people said before, if you're tough enough to throw a punch, then you are tough enough to take it. In my view, this includes even if the person is smaller than myself. I won't attempt beating the shit out of them and I certainly won't make the first strike, but I sure as hell will slug them once or twice to let them damn well know if they continue, they'll be in for a world of hurt.

[Kent]

Also, the term "civilized" is such a weighted term that I am absolutely sure that you're an engineer of some sort (computer or otherwise). Go find a Liberal Arts major and argue with him/her. I'm dating an Engineer/sciencey person, and I know that I'll end up feeling stupid if I continue discussing this.

Something like this would happen:

So you're wrong Kent, wrong! No, it's not just a matter of semantics! I hate you, you're so narrow minded! Oh, sorry, I didn't mean-no, wait... aw crap.

So, whatever. Just don't take being a gentleman or yourself too seriously.
You know, I think that's the most awkwardly-worded compliment (I guess?) that I've received in a very long time.

Kudos.

Though, technically, I suppose your deduction of an engineering background in me would be correct... but you'd probably deduct the same thing before I ever received any part of said background.

That is to say, I grew up on Legos. :wacko:

[washuguy]

This is pretty much my stance on the subject.
Though I would NEVER even THINK of hitting my mom. Under NO circumstances. Even if she came at me with a knife or a gun, I'd just run.

Yeah, I couldn't hit my mom... No matter what, i'd move out/run like hell...

[washuguy]

I will and have hit women, including my own mother. However, I never throw the first punch. I don't like most people even touching me. You hit me and I'm sure as hell going to hit back. Frankly I don't give a damn about the "be a better man" shit. I don't believe in chivalry. As some people said before, if you're tough enough to throw a punch, then you are tough enough to take it. In my view, this includes even if the person is smaller than myself. I won't attempt beating the shit out of them and I certainly won't make the first strike, but I sure as hell will slug them once or twice to let them damn well know if they continue, they'll be in for a world of hurt.

I'm not messing with you my friend LOL

[BlaizeYES]

feminism is EQUALITY IN GETTING YOUR ASS KICKED.

g2g watch "mama mia," bbl lylas

[Shadowpawn]

Who would have thought hitting women would be such an enticing topic? Wonder what that says about us...

[Indica]

If a girl slapped me in the face, i would probably just spit in her face.

Same with a light punch. If it was a hard punch in the face or kick in the nuts, I would punch her back and I think that is justified.

[Shigecki]

If it was a hard punch in the face or kick in the nuts, I would punch her back and I think that is justified.
If she punched you in the face or kicked you in the nuts, she was probably justified.

[Adriano]

violence begets violence. :|

[Toadthroat]

If she punched you in the face or kicked you in the nuts, she was probably justified.

Not even. Women aren't innocent and are just as capable as men when it comes to being total dicks.

[Seority]

I think this has been stated, but hell, no one seems to care anymore.


Don't hit.

[hollowtip]

The bottom line is that for 99% of all females, they're not going to do as much damage as a male could towards a female. That's why I think a male should never hit back.

And just because she knows that the legal system is ultimately going to favor the female in any domestic violence dispute in the majority of cases, it doesn't give her the right to become violent.

No offense to any women on here, but a lot of you guys don't understand that most men could put you in the hospital in serious condition rather easily. If a man is really trying to hurt you, you're going to be unconscious on the floor when he's done.

[hollowtip]

The bottom line is that for 99% of all females, they're not going to do as much damage as a male could towards a female. That's why I think a male should never hit back.

And just because she knows that the legal system is ultimately going to favor the female in any domestic violence dispute in the majority of cases, it doesn't give her the right to become violent.

No offense to any women on here, but a lot of you guys don't understand that most men could put you in the hospital in serious condition rather easily. If a man is really trying to hurt you, you're going to be unconscious on the floor when he's done.

[Night_Raid]

My policy on this is "If you can hit like a man, I'll treat you like a man" Quite simply, if you're dumb enough to seriously hit someone who could easily hurt you. Then perhaps you're in need of someone smacking some sense into you. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a violent guy, I'd never hurt someone to solve a problem. Unless they wanted to inflict bodily harm to me, then all bets are off. It doesn't matter who you are, if you think you're strong enough to solve a problem with violence. Then you're strong enough to take a punch to the face. Those are the consequences of being an idiot. Having boobs and a vagina doesn't excuse you from being stupid for hitting someone over an argument.

[Kadajenova]

If someone kick me, I don't care if it's a girl, I kick back, I call that gender equality

[Toadthroat]

I agree.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Having boobs and a vagina doesn't excuse you from being stupid for hitting someone over an argument.

Quoting for truth, justice and the American way.

I'm not going to openly take a swing at girls out of anger and I'm not going to swing back if I get slapped. If she seriously wants to hurt me, that's a different story.

[BahnKnakyu]

I'll just repeat what was said here:

I won't lay the first strike, but if you smack me, I will smack you back with an equal amount of force, provided I'm not in a peaceful mood. Maybe I did something to deserve to get smacked, but you were the one who smacked me first, that was your decision. No baaawing about it because you're a female.

If you are gonna kill me, I am gonna do everything I can to keep you from getting to me (short of killing you) - regardless of who you are. This is why I like Aikido - it's a somewhat passive martial art where the prime goal is through the use of counterattacks, disable your opponent from harming you, rather than outright fucking them up.

And it's amazing how the women who commented in this thread had pretty much the same belief as a majority of the men in this thread - if you're dumb enough to smack someone, you sure as hell better be ready to take it bac. I think it's rather insulting to a woman to treat her as though she is weaker than you, and the females in this thread seem to agree that they don't want the baby-ing and chivalristic treatment that parents apparently are trying to beat into their children.

The funny thing is, I still see parents trying to instill this same belief in their kids. I wonder how many of these parents realize that by doing that, they are making their sons and daughters believe that women are fragile, dainty creatures to be pampered. See the: "I was raised this way" statement from previous posts.

[Ranmaru]

Well, for some little odd reason, it vexes me when I hear that women would use that excuse to hit you. I wouldn't want a woman to provoke me but that would be their own way of being dicks. For some reason, because of that, a slap to our face (for whatever reason) from a women would get me a little madder than getting slapped by a guy. I'm glad that most woman are not like that, hehe.

Well, I wouldn't know, actually. I have never really had a relationship IRL, lol. Only hitting from a women would be from my mother. -_-

[Abashi76]

I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Just to offend you all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_wBiz28sg

[Abashi76]

Going to physical violence over a DVD, no mater which gender it is is being a phsyco lol

But I'm not particularly offended by it since not all males are how you depict them.

(so basically you failed)

White American males, not Asians. Asian men are more feminine than American men, thats why they can't get dates around here. They aren't aggressive and violent enough.

[Sord]

I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Just to offend you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_wBiz28sg

The only thing I found offensive about this was the taste in movies the girl has. Shazam? My god that was horrible. Poor comedy to boot.

[Toadthroat]

I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Just to offend you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_wBiz28sg

Whats this? A video of a women in power?! WHAT BLASPHEMY! ABASHI YOU HAVE CROSSED THE LINE! I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU COME FROM, BUT HERE IN AMERICA WOMEN KNOW THEIR PLACE! IN THE KITCHEN!
RRRAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEEE!
I'M GUNNA GO TO THE SHOOTING RANGE TO FIRE SOME BIG AMERICAN GUNS TO RELEASE ALL THIS TESTOSTERONE INDUCED STRESS!
AND THEN I'M GUNNA EAT A BIG SLAB OF MEAT. CUZ I'M AMERICAN AND THATS WHAT WE DO!
AND FURTHER MORE! WHATS UP WITH ASIANS? SINCE WHEN DO THEY SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH!?
BA HUMBUG, HARUMPH, AND ALL THAT.

[Chuck_Norris]

I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Just to offend you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_wBiz28sg

Now hold it right there. You cannot possibly say EVERYONE in America is like that. Unless you give proof of every single living person in the country, you can not say that and be taken seriously.

[Ranmaru]

I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Just to offend you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_wBiz28sg

Well I don't think its a fad for us to hit women. I assume you also think WOMEN think its cool to SLAP US even though we wouldn't INTEND TO IN THE FIRST PLACE. (which might infuriate us a tad bit) Am I right? If not, please explain. :)

[TheOneHero]

I think Abashi is saying everyone in his/her area loves bondage and the like to the extreme. =/

[Ranmaru]

Sadly, I loathe how most out of country countrys (lol I said that) assume we are big, fat, mcdonalds eating, jerks that slap women. :/ How dare they assume such things! Sorry for going a little off topic. Funnily enough, I do eat Mcdonalds from time to time!

[Mman2000]

Ok. I'm gonna jump back into this one after seeing this shipment of fail quote.


I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women. Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Can a mod please close this thread? It's a fire hazard. No, really, if this shit keeps going on the forum will eventually be engulfed in a blaze of burning strawmen.

That said, let's look at the stupidity of it piece by piece.


I hate how everybody in America thinks its kool for men to slap women.

I haven't seen anyone here act like it's cool to hit a woman without provocation just for shits and giggles. This thread isn't about intentionally mistreating women. This thread is about whether or not it is ok to, after a woman fails to restrain herself and hits you, hit her back. That's all. It's not about glorifying violence, stop trying to make it into what you want it to be. If a girl decides to hit me, she's going to get hit back. If she thinks I'm supposed to keep my hands to myself I expect the same from her. That's called equality, look it up if you have to.


Not only that, but Americans always bash other countries such as Japan, for their treatment of women. Most cultures aren't nearly as violent as this one.

Americans bash Japan for their treatment of women? WTF, haven't heard that one before. If I did I would tell them to shut the fuck up and pay attention to places in the middle east that practice female genital mutilation, stone women for adultery, strip them of most of their rights in the name of islam, and where men routinely kill their own female relatives because the woman did something that would ruin the "honor" of the family. You know what, I'm going to tell that to you right now Abashi: Shut the fuck up, stop spamming your idiotic rants, start looking at some of the atrocities that happen to women outside of US borders, and compare for yourself.

Maybe if you got off of your "american guys are violent" soapbox for five minutes you would've noticed that there are other cultures that have attitudes toward women that are as bad as, if not worse than, that you perceive americans to have, and you would stop talking out of your ass about how "violent and aggressive" americans are.

Whew. That might not have stopped the stupid rants, but it felt pretty damn good to say something like that in response to idiocy of such magnitude.

[Sord]

applause for Mman2000

[thunder-ray]

applause for Mman2000I also applause Mman2000 as well

[pikachief]

Sadly, I love how most of our country are big, fat, mcdonalds eating, women. :/

and sadly, thats how i read that >.<

well i guess thats what popped in my brain when i read that LOL

[seph_monkey]

i like the pain so id probabily just be like " awww yeah just like that" but ive been in that situation before , i just punched the guy she was with straight in the face is hard as i could hahaha cough* uhh yeah

also ive hit women before when they hit me because i treat them like just another person, yeah it is a bad thing to hit anyone in general to resolve a problem. unless it did not hurt at all which mostly happens cause sometimes i really enjoy it >_>;

[Toadthroat]

Ya know, I left this thread open for as long as I have cause its been pretty interesting, even though the original convo has long since been derailed. But I think its about over fer now so...
Requesting lock, plaz.

[Seority]

Seconds.

[MetaZedlen]

1. *Raises hands to heavily applaud Mman2000*
2. Thirds on the lock, we don't need anymore stupidity, even if it is only from one person...

[Larusu]

1. *Raises hands to heavily applaud Mman2000*
2. Thirds on the lock, we don't need anymore stupidity, even if it is only from one person...
...In America. :B

[Chuck_Norris]

But this is funny to read! D:

[McLaughlin]

I've been in a physical confrontation four times (and hospitalized once). Twice with the father (the second time resulted in hospitalization) of a friend, once with a guy at school, and once in a mall. All of them were started over something they were doing to one of my female friends. Like I said on the first page, I was taught to never hit a woman. My Mom brought me up to respect them.

You'd best believe that if you're hitting a woman in front of me we've got a problem, friend of mine or not. Call it chivalry, sexism, brainwashing, whatever.

[Sekani]

My mother taught me that you can't have respect for a woman or anyone else if you don't have respect for yourself.

[Shadowpawn]

My mother taught me that you can't have respect for a woman or anyone else if you don't have respect for yourself.

That's definitive true, what's the point in respecting others if you can't respect yourself and your own beliefs?

[Toadthroat]

I've been in a physical confrontation four times (and hospitalized once). Twice with the father (the second time resulted in hospitalization) of a friend, once with a guy at school, and once in a mall. All of them were started over something they were doing to one of my female friends. Like I said on the first page, I was taught to never hit a woman. My Mom brought me up to respect them.

You'd best believe that if you're hitting a woman in front of me we've got a problem, friend of mine or not. Call it chivalry, sexism, brainwashing, whatever.

Regardless of whether or not the hitting of the woman was justified?
Respecting women and not hitting women are two different things. If I had a wife, and she had the tendency to swing her fists at me from time to time, I'd hit the bitch back. I still respect her, but you best believe if you swing at me you better expect some retaliation. Regardless of gender.

[Night_Raid]

Well, the way I see it is, we're all humans. Sure we're not all exactly the same, but we're all the same species, each and every single one of us. I apply the same set of rules to all humans, respect me, I respect you. Regardless of position, gender, or disposition. Which sometimes gets me in some trouble with authority. But hell, we're all a bunch of apes, so why the hell should I kiss your ass just because someone said I should? The same idea goes for women, while I admit, around women I don't know too well I usually mind my manners more and I'm somewhat more bashful. Except for that, I treat women just the same as any other person. With no more or no less respect than what I get in return.

[Nitro Vordex]

Animals have it so simple; they don't have laws and this chivalry BS.

Also requesting lock.

[Ryna]

Locked at the OP's request.