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Sega011
Jun 30, 2008, 12:19 PM
So I just started playing PSU recently. I made a Beast Hunter, got him to Acrofighter by 17 and now at 20 and been having a good time. I enjoyed the Ranger part of it so much that I decided to make a CAST gunner. Now, when I was leveling Ranger, I was playing with friends and everything went down pretty easily. Playing myself now, I feel as if my CAST ranger is much less powerful than my PA-spamming Hunter. Am I just doing something wrong? I've been leveling Shotgun bullets (and really only using shotguns), as dual handguns seem to run out of ammo so fast... Any hints? (I can't use a Giga/Bullet PP Save on C rank armor... :( )

Ogni-XR21
Jun 30, 2008, 12:25 PM
Compared to Beast/PA-spamming/Hunter every other class seem underpowered... try Force sometime. But one you get your job level up, and those Bullets to higher levels it should get better.

Hunter has always been a beginners class, even more so back in PSO.

mvffin
Jun 30, 2008, 12:28 PM
Gunners can compete with fighter types, it just takes much longer to level all the bullets.

Shotguns and lasers are primary damage sources.

Also, don't forget you can still use a few melee weapons with a gunner. FG can use Spear, Saber, and Dagger. Helps against enemies that are resistant to bullets.

ashley50
Jun 30, 2008, 12:34 PM
Hunters got Huge HP...which means they can take more damage = Beginner/Starting Class, just run up next to the enemy and kill it, not too hard is it?

Rangers/ Forces have Lower HP more like an Intermediate or suited for Advanced players.
Rangers are a "Support" class. Not a Heavy Damage Dealing Class

gryphonvii
Jun 30, 2008, 12:36 PM
at higher levels you could pull out 1000+ damage per shot on a rifle, 700+ per individual bullet on twin handguns close to 1000+ per shot witha shotgun, 700+ per bolt on a crossbow, the lsit goes on , and as was said before, put majarra on a spear or spinning strike on a saber and it still does decent damage. Fortegunners are one of the best dps clases out ther, just takes a while to get there. But be diligent and you'll see for yourself soon enough.

pikachief
Jun 30, 2008, 12:51 PM
it has been said and shown many times that Fortegunners are the second fastest soloers.

Their Status effects from their guns also help the party out many times.

When the game was only RANGER FORCE and HUNTER, Rangers were considered a support class and hunters and forces were considered the damage dealer.

Then Expert Classes came out and FG's got what made them one of the best classes. Not better weapons or better stats, higher PA levels.

You make a good hunter by getting good weapons.

You make a good Ranger by getting good Photon Arts.

You make a good Force by getting good Weapons AND Photon Arts.

That's y the game lists hunters for beginners, rangers for moderate players, and force for experienced or expert players.

It the difficulty of being the best your character can be, not the difficulty of like it being easy or hard on the game lol.

The_Gio
Jun 30, 2008, 12:56 PM
thats weird I feel weak when I play as my FF since I only see one number pop up. With my gunner,I do somewhere in the thousands with every gun and somewhere in 4 thousands with shotguns lol. I also feel sluggish when I swing with a fighter since gunners are supposed to be support, they do way more constant damage

pikachief
Jun 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
yea when my shotgun hits 750, 5 times.

i dont call that weak in the least bit XD

EDIT: also remember if u think a class is over powered, dont ask y is this class underpowered? its better to ask "what am i doing wrong with this class?"

no class is underpowered, if u think it is there is something your missing.

EDIT: Except for wartecher, guntecher, and FiGunner, lol they aren't that weak its just that the other classes beat them out :/ They're mostly there for fun, but i play them all the time cuz they're fun :P

Alastor_Haven
Jun 30, 2008, 01:06 PM
You must be doing something wrong -.-

Gunners are amazing

Just level your bullets

Oh and doing 1k+ Shots is great
Oh right 700+ With shotguns
Oh am I missing 700 per bullet with twin hand guns?
Oh right forgot about doing 1k+ With a fucking laser

Csero
Jun 30, 2008, 01:36 PM
You must be doing something wrong -.-

Gunners are amazing

Just level your bullets

Oh and doing 1k+ Shots is great
Oh right 700+ With shotguns
Oh am I missing 700 per bullet with twin hand guns?
Oh right forgot about doing 1k+ With a fucking laser

Not to mention those rifle PAs have knock back after Lvl 31.

*Bil De Vear appears*

*He gets stuck in an epileptic fit until the tongue of my Rattlesnake licks him to death*

Amen.

Tianna
Jun 30, 2008, 01:38 PM
I am a female CAST(lvl 130) Fortegunner(lvl 20).
My HP is 3004(something close anyways)
I use mostly shotguns but have 3 rifles in my inventory for the knock back effect on Bil De Veers and Gaozorans(as I call them "big nasties")

Just a few tips:
Level all bullets(easier with PA rebalance)
ALWAYS use elemental bullets opposite of the enemy( ie. SW has light, fire and lightening enemies)
Killer Shot on a full pallette of high PP rifles for AMF
"Point blank" annoying enemies with shottie( gives me a warm fuzzy feeling seeing that much damage)...3500 damage per shot on average on De Ragan at capped levels
SUV large groups at appropriate time( or 1 Jarba.... hate those guys...lol) (Paradi Cataract FTW!!!)
Spear with majarra is probably a good idea for bullet resistant enemies but I like to "tough it out" with my guns( nothing like running around 3 svaltus without a stun resist with a shotgun)
In a nut shell, stick with it and it will be very gratifying. I can swap bullets and solo just about anything with the right armor( high% lightening armor for Go Vahras X 6 in Duel in the Ruins or your dead)

Sega011
Jun 30, 2008, 02:03 PM
So should I even bother leveling the twin handguns, even if I may go GT at some point, or just stick to Shotguns?

Alastor_Haven
Jun 30, 2008, 02:03 PM
Not to mention those rifle PAs have knock back after Lvl 31.

*Bil De Vear appears*

*He gets stuck in an epileptic fit until the tongue of my Rattlesnake licks him to death*

Amen.

Nothing will move :P

BTW

Rifle lvling isn't even that bad anymore

Takes about maybe a day for 1-31 If you can survive the boredom

Ashkahn
Jun 30, 2008, 02:11 PM
So should I even bother leveling the twin handguns, even if I may go GT at some point, or just stick to Shotguns?

Level up Twins. They're a reliable weapon that gets a lot of damage done in a short time.

If you're worried about PP, use GRM or Yohmei twins, or pick up Twin Ruby Bullet when you have enough cash.

Tianna
Jun 30, 2008, 02:16 PM
So should I even bother leveling the twin handguns, even if I may go GT at some point, or just stick to Shotguns?
That I can't answer. The old addage "to eash his(her) own" applies here. All I can say is that I prefer shotguns and rifles but there are some that like twin handguns. Btw, I use A rank shotties grinded(ground?) high and they beat a Shigga Desta hands down. I may use a Shigga Baret if I get one grinded to 6 or better. You do have more mobility with the twin handguns though, but like I said earlier, I like a challenge :)

gryphonvii
Jun 30, 2008, 02:24 PM
So should I even bother leveling the twin handguns, even if I may go GT at some point, or just stick to Shotguns?

Just because you don't get s-ranks as a FG doesn't mean you shouldn't level that gun, becasue even with A-ranks you will still outdamage A Guntecher, the same goes with crossbows, just becasue you look at your palette and see a few greens along with all the yellow S-rank symbols doesn't mean its a weak pallete. Twin pistols are great damage dealers that allow you to be mobile as you shoot, same for crossbows.

Sega011
Jun 30, 2008, 02:27 PM
I see - thank you. An unrelated question though - whats with the longbow hate?

gryphonvii
Jun 30, 2008, 02:31 PM
some people don't like bows because they fire slower than rifles, but really its only a 3:2 ratio in favor of rifles.

They have great percentage and are far easier to level than rifels, ignore defense on most monsters. But since rifles got a % boost they are stronger in most cases than bows.

But really there are no class that can use bows with enough attack to match a Fortegunner save perhaps a beast protranser.

They are both viable long range options, down to which class you want to play and which gun do you think looks cooler.

Telina
Jun 30, 2008, 02:33 PM
I see - thank you. An unrelated question though - whats with the longbow hate?

Long bows were originally a force weapon, like how fighters have handguns and gunners have spears and daggers. Forces had Long bows as a reserve weapon. They were on par with, or atleast comparable to, rifles before the rifles had their PA stats buffed and the knockdown effect added.

The only really exceptional aspect of the longbows is their innate ability to pierce the DEF of monsters. So shooting a de ragan in the legs or body would yield the same damage as his head or wings.

Really rifles > bows if you have the option of both, Just some people can't formulate actual 'arguements' to or against and they just spew thie "longbow hate' as you called it.

BIGGIEstyle
Jun 30, 2008, 02:34 PM
The longbow hate is derived from the fact that comparing a Lv40 rifle bullet to that of a Bow looks as such:

Rifle
40% Element with elemental bullets at Lv31+
Knockdown effect at Lv31+
Faster firing rate

Longbow
I wanna say 32% element at 31+ (not sure, could be wrong)
Slower firing rate
Ignores Defense

Now I personally like both for their own natural abilities. I love seeing my bow dealing more damage to the Maggas Maganna than the FG with his Lv40 bullet since the enemy's defense lowers a lot of it.

But equally I love plowing through DG with grav shot and killer shot without any trouble whatsoever.

It's all a matter of preference, but I personally like them both.

Weeaboolits
Jun 30, 2008, 02:44 PM
It's worth noting that while the bow ignores defense, it does not ignore bullet resistance. So you still have to aim properly sometimes. ._.

Dragwind
Jun 30, 2008, 03:29 PM
Numbers can be deceiving, but I wouldn't say gunners are exactly weak or underpowered. They have their own situations in which they can excel. In my opinion, they support well with SE's or knockdown/back while still putting in steady damage. I mean steady as in less startup + cooldown time compared to melee pa's and tech pa's.

Miyoko
Jun 30, 2008, 04:38 PM
Gunners are underpowered compared to fortefighters...

... But really, -every other class in the game- is terribly underpowered compared to fFs. >_> It has nothing to do with the individual classes, really; it's more just that fF is insanely broken. :P

But other than that, nah, gunners aren't really underpowered :p It's more "PA X is overpowered" than "class X is too strong" in this game, really. (For the most part, at least.)

gryphonvii
Jun 30, 2008, 05:10 PM
here is a quick power level chart of the forte classes.
10,000-Fortefighter
-
-
-
-
9000
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
4500-everything else
-
-
-
-
-
-etc.
As you can see everything else is decently powered, with FF power level being over 9000
p.s: I am really bored, need to get out soon.

Niloklives
Jun 30, 2008, 06:25 PM
not really. it depends on the mission but FF vs FG - a lot of times FG will finish a run faster. high damage output from lon grange is pretty hard to compete against.

Pika is crazy. if you're gonna diss Figh, AF is worse than them.

lowbows get hate because they barely could keep up with riles before rifles got buffed...but rifles have twive the rate of fire as long bows and you'll never see a long bow do double the damage of a rifle. meaning even vs high defense enemies, a rifle still does more damage than a bow. plus has a better SE application rate thanks to the higher speed AND can stun lock large enemies. how is a long bow supposed to compete with that?

RemiusTA
Jun 30, 2008, 07:16 PM
Now gunners are starting to bitch?

Damn what next, FF's complaining about their weapon selection?

Golto
Jun 30, 2008, 08:05 PM
There's a world of difference between a low char lvl- low lvl bullet gunner and a high char lvl - high lvl bullet char. Starting off as a gunner you won't be doing decent damage but in the end it pays off. I remember when I started off rifles were the only viable option solo.

Kion
Jun 30, 2008, 09:42 PM
Starting off with a gunner is really hard. The weapons have low atp, so does the class and the modifers on the bullets don't help much. It's kind of a blessing; you can concentrate on PA leveling, in higher levels like Tianna said the damage really starts adding up.