Neutral Weapons, are they better than the wrong element?

[Beekeeper]

I am trying to understand the reasoning for making neutral weapons. Unless there is a penalty for using the wrong element against a given monster, wouldn't it have the same power as a neutral weapon? And if that is the case why would you ever want a neutral?

[Zorafim]

Neutral weapons have no damage bonus, nor damage penalties, to any elemental enemies in the game. There's no difference between using a neutral weapon against a polty and using an ice weapon, but a thunder weapon will experience a damage reduction.

[CelestialBlade]

Green looks cool.

[Beekeeper]

Thanks Zorafim, I think I'll stick with elemental weapons. Does the same hold true for armors?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Neutral photons generally offer a boost (about 8%, in my experience) to synth rates, so they're easy to make. Also, while they offer no advantage, they also offer no penalty, regardless of what you're fighting.

[Jainsea]

Yes what Zorafim said. Also since it doesn't get any elemental penalties then you can
use that same weapon for any job and cut down on your gear by lots, so in some terms
its more efficient because its an everyday weapon, not a "Oh its best on this mission weapon"

[Llord Bacchus]

i'm so glad i read this thread! - i actually had this debate with a buddy yesterday - neither of us really knew the answer for sure - but, now i do!

thanks all

[Weeaboolits]

I would probably have a few neutral weapons if green photon didn't render so horribly, 5% light snowies, close enough. :)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Neutral photons generally offer a boost (about 8%, in my experience) to synth rates, so they're easy to make. Also, while they offer no advantage, they also offer no penalty, regardless of what you're fighting.Other than the penalty of everyone laughing at you for using a neutral weapon, sure.

[Ahkaskar]

Because everyone knows that spending all your time and money trying to get high elemental % on everything is what the cool kids do.

Seriously, neutral weapons are a valid tactic.

[AlliThePally]

Other than the penalty of everyone laughing at you for using a neutral weapon, sure.

I have never been laughed at for using netural weapons :p However I am asked every now and then why I use a few of them

[DISCO]

Using a neutral weapon is never a valid tactic, especially in today's market. For a few million you can set yourself up with a palette of 30%+ weapons, in all elements, very easily. Armor you can get away with using neutral, but never weapons.

[Ahkaskar]

Using a neutral weapon is never a valid tactic, especially in today's market. For a few million you can set yourself up with a palette of 30%+ weapons, in all elements, very easily. Armor you can get away with using neutral, but never weapons.
The problem, it's so obvious!

[stukasa]

Neutral weapons are for people who are cheap, lazy, or like the color green.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :p

[Kizeragi]

Neutral weapons have no damage bonus, nor damage penalties, to any elemental enemies in the game. There's no difference between using a neutral weapon against a polty and using an ice weapon, but a thunder weapon will experience a damage reduction.

This, also some weapons just suit being green. Seriously.

e.g. Green Two-headed Ragnuc, and you have a pair of killer Christmas Trees. :D

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

The problem, it's so obvious!
Getting money is easy:

Step 1: Play missions.
Step 2: Buy whatever you want.

[Alastor_Haven]

Because everyone knows that spending all your time and money trying to get high elemental % on everything is what the cool kids do.

Seriously, neutral weapons are a valid tactic.

You can't get elemental photon's?

Another good thing for high %'s

They sell very well

Neutral doesn't -.-

[Syl]

Another good thing for high %'s

They sell very well

This is the biggest plus. You get a shot at making a 50% which, depending on the weapon, could make you a very huge profit.

On armor, even though it's easier to just stick to one armor, it's pretty much a waste since you will never gain any sort of DFP boost. The element can make a pretty noticeable difference to the damage you receive. You'd be gimping yourself if you relied on neutral armor.

[relentless]

e.g. Green Two-headed Ragnuc, and you have a pair of killer Christmas Trees. :D

That and green Kan Yu is pretty, especially a 0/0, need yet to see one.

Otherwise, I don't think people should be so lazy as to just synth one weapon for all situations. Nor are people so poor that they can't manage to have a rainbow palette of something etc.

[NDW]

I have never been laughed at for using netural weapons :p However I am asked every now and then why I use a few of them

You're lucky. When I was a neutral specialist with weapons and armor, people that I would party with randomly would ALWAYS make fun of my weapons just about EVERY RUN.

I had weapons that included Huge Cutter, Kan Yu, Gudda Hon, Mugunruk, Sweet Death, Double Agito, Crea Doubles, Carriguine-rucar, Ank Zagza and Grand Cross. My armor was a Serafi-senba.

People would go crazy about seeing these things, but now I retired on neutral weapons. I am still going to wear neutral armor and I don't see myself wearing elemental armor anytime soon.

[NDW]

That and green Kan Yu is pretty, especially a 0/0, need yet to see one.



When I retired my neutral weapons, my friend suggested something that was dirty. He suggested that I took my neutral Kan Yu and grind it as low as I could and put it in my Photon Gacha (I got it to 1/1).

I made about 3M off of it when I watched a guy turn it until he got it out and he said, "Haha loser, I have your Kan Yu now!!!". Then I told him to check out the percentage and grinds and all I saw was: "WHAT THE HELL?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!".

Then he stormed out of my room.

[Saito S]

Personally, I say people can use whatever they want. As long as you're not using the matching element (light weapons vs. light enemies, etc), knock yourself out. However... for my own preference, I don't like neutral weapons. Green is a cool color, but the particular shade of green used for neutral photons in this game I find... eh, a little blah. It's just not a very nice green. lol Whereas I find all six of the elemental colors very nice (earth could stand to be a little more orange, I think, but eh, it still looks good).

As for the issue of using a neutral weapon as an "all-purpose" weapon... again, people can play however they want; I'm not gonna call you names for using neutrals, or kick people from my party over it or anything. But honestly... I don't see the point. I think there's a middle ground between using a neutral weapon and "spending millions to get all six elements of a single weapon." You don't HAVE to have a sword for every element, an axe for every element, a saber for every element, etc. etc... You can only have 2 or 3 of a given weapon and be fine. Consider: in very few missions will you face enemies of more than a couple elements. Let's say you had 3 good swords: one ice, one lightening, and one light. So, the only way you would NOT be able to be either neutral towards enemies or at an advantage is in a mission that has - specifically - ice, and lightening, and light enemies in it. Not counting MAG (which is a nutty mission with enemies of EVERY element except fire), a quick search on PSUpedia's mission chart tells me there are how many such missions? Two. Only two missions in the entire game (Moonlight Beast and FoI) have ice and lightening and light enemies all together in the same mission (and in Moonlight, the only light enemies are rare ones that you might not even see). So with swords of ice, lightening, and light on hand, you are guaranteed to be able to use a sword in ANY mission except those two and be doing either standard damage or enhanced damage.

The point I'm making with that huge text block is that having only a few elements ready for a given weapon type is - for all intents and purposes - just as good as having neutral weapons. A lightening sword isn't only good against earth enemies - it's perfectly fine against ice, fire, dark, and light. You won't get a damage bonus, but you wouldn't with a neutral weapon, either.

[ashley50]

You can use it on ANYTHING!
Without worrying whether you do more or less.

[Kizeragi]

When I retired my neutral weapons, my friend suggested something that was dirty. He suggested that I took my neutral Kan Yu and grind it as low as I could and put it in my Photon Gacha (I got it to 1/1).

I made about 3M off of it when I watched a guy turn it until he got it out and he said, "Haha loser, I have your Kan Yu now!!!". Then I told him to check out the percentage and grinds and all I saw was: "WHAT THE HELL?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!".

Then he stormed out of my room.

Lol owned.

[goldbrease]

i think neutral would work good for that new mission in japan that from what i recall has mobs in every element so you could carry a set of different element weapons a neutral armor to try covering the entire ground on the mobs to deal damage but not have a weakness to them at the same time.

[CelestialBlade]

It's not like this game is hard enough anymore to necessitate needing top-notch elemental weapons. I can definitely see the appeal of a neutral palette nowadays.

[DreXxiN]

In a party as of now, yeah neutural weapons are fine, but I prefer smaller groups, so generally go with High % Weapons.

[Seority]

Neutral = terrible.
Just make a damned elemental weapon.
Instead of being dull to all, you are strong against one and bad veruses one, then dull the rest. For heavens sake just have two elemental weapons so you can be strong at two, and weak against none (meaning you use the other elemental one when you are against your previous elementals weakness)
Example:
Make a 30% fire Kan Yu.
ice: You do 100% att and 30% bonus. (130 damage for exp)
ground, lightning, light, dark: 100% att and 0% bonus. (100 damage)
fire: You do 100% and minus 30% bonus. (70 damage)
You make a 30% ice Kan Yu. (Now you have two elements)
fire: use ice for 130% output
ice: use fire for 130% output
lightning, ground, dark, light: use either for 100% output

See? A much better advantage. With neutral everything is 100% att and nothing strong against. Having two weaps with different elements is extremly better then any number of neutral weapons. Don't waste your materials on neutral crap. No one buys them either, so don't think you can get money off of them.
XP

[relentless]

Neutral = terrible.


Truth told, a fact. But yeah, each their own. ;)

[DreXxiN]

Percentages effect overal damage, and since the % Nerf in AoI, are not an actual % Value of extra damage anymore. 10% Is more like 20% and 50% is more like 35%.

I don't see the bad in making something with a few elemental photons to do better against a certain element of enemy. I mean I suppose if you're really THAT BAD at multitasking to switch weapons mid run for different enemy types, or if it's just your playstyle, go for it.

EDIT: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! STOP IT! To everyone who thinks that %'s don't matter on armor, that is the MOST important thing! a 6* armor at 50% ice will STILL take virtually no damage from equal level ice monsters, and has the equivilent effectiveness (Granted not as much SUV/Slot access) of a 30% Serafi-Senba. Seriously, DFP is so irrelevent in most cases.

[Abashi76]

Some bullet PAs are neutral. As for weapons, its easier to find neutral ones, than it is elemental ones.

[MSAksion]

Neutral = terrible.
Just make a damned elemental weapon.
XP

well XD - strong words but yes make an element one. and bring TWO.

Bring say a Lightning and Earth Kan Yu. When you see pollovahra use Earth Kan yu. See a Badira switch to Lightning Kan Yu.

At least if you see an Earth Robot you have a lightning Kan Yu on you so you are strong against it.

Conclusion - Well bad examples but yes carry two of the same weapon type in 2 or more different elements to cover your weakness. You'll never be disadvantage.

[Rayokarna]

I would rock a neutral Shinowa Line any day of the week >.>

[CelestialBlade]

For bullets I try to carry at least 4 elements for each gun, so I end up with a perfectly balanced palette for any situation. For melee, as Aksion said, I carry around two of each weapon (doubles as an excuse to use the 10* and 11* of each weapon) each of opposing element. For my overall palette, I have at least two weapons for each element.

For how easy this game is it's definitely not necessary, but it's not hard to be optimal either.

[Weeaboolits]

I use a neutral Flowen's Sword, soley because it actually looks good that way.

[HienkyakuX]

You're lucky. When I was a neutral specialist with weapons and armor, people that I would party with randomly would ALWAYS make fun of my weapons just about EVERY RUN.

I had weapons that included Huge Cutter, Kan Yu, Gudda Hon, Mugunruk, Sweet Death, Double Agito, Crea Doubles, Carriguine-rucar, Ank Zagza and Grand Cross. My armor was a Serafi-senba.

People would go crazy about seeing these things, but now I retired on neutral weapons. I am still going to wear neutral armor and I don't see myself wearing elemental armor anytime soon.

Hey dude can u post a pic of that neutral rucar. Haven't seen one like that yet.

[NDW]

Hey dude can u post a pic of that neutral rucar. Haven't seen one like that yet.

Sorry, I had sold all off my neutral weapons to help me get money for all my elemental Fighmaster weapons. I rememeber beatrixkidd0 had a picture of a neutral Carriguine-rucar, you could talk to him about it.

[nooblet]

i would rock a neutral weapon if its my favorite one since well can use it anytime anywhere. But gah the green on the neutral weapon is boring.

[Dragon_Knight]

Personaly I DO use neutral weapons if it looks good with green (Flowens sword, Crea Doubles, ect.) otherwise I stick with my usual elemental preferances of ice and light.

[AlphaDragoon]

I like the neutral weapons, they look cool and don't have disadvantages. I don't really like carrying one of each element for weapons because not only does it take up a TON of space, a lot of weapons look flat out ugly in certain elements (thanks for making element determine color, Sega...). Like dark Blackheart? Or dark Kan Yu? Those two look laughably stupid (Light Blackheart on the other hand looks amazing, but that's beside the point).

As it stands I only carry light Blackhearts (with earth Ebros) on my main, because I don't care to have them in the other elements. Although I'd bet a neutral BH would look pretty cool.

[gryphonvii]

neutral is the human parallel for weapons and armor.

[Ken_Silver]

I just read 5 pages of how most people have money...

Bleah... I call shenanigans on that. I stay broke :razz:

And as for the neutral element for weapons, I say go ahead. Just so you can handle any monster. That's their strength: being the jack of all trades. My palette can't afford to have one weapon of every element. The best that I can do is have one of each element in my palette. And even that is hard.

Where is this easy PSU that people speak of? :confused:

[Powder Keg]

My Neutral Kan Yu rules.

[Weeaboolits]

I just read 5 pages of how most people have money...

Bleah... I call shenanigans on that. I stay broke :razz:

And as for the neutral element for weapons, I say go ahead. Just so you can handle any monster. That's their strength: being the jack of all trades. My palette can't afford to have one weapon of every element. The best that I can do is have one of each element in my palette. And even that is hard.

Where is this easy PSU that people speak of? :confused:GRINDGRINDGRIND is how, personally, I can't keep up that sort of pace. :/

I usually can scrape together enough for the things I want, though.

[Seority]

You know the game is two f*ing easy when people use bad options just for looks...


Best idea:

Pick your favorite class. (This should be done with evaluation.)
Level up your class to max (It's not that hard anymore). While doing that:
Level up all PA's to the weapons your class can use, and the ones you want to use a lot.
Make a level 100 PM of the type of weapon you will be synthing most.
Once your PA's are leved to a high level, go hunt/buy boards and materials. For every melee weaps, make one of every element. Get 30% or over if you have spare meseta. With tech items and guns, just make them. The PA's are the element. High % A weaps do the same as low % S weapons. PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND!!!
Once you have all elements of your weapons, or types, whatever, grind them. If they brake to much, get new ones.
Get/make good % armors. 20%+ is good. Make sure they have the correct slots and grade (B-S).
Get the best units for your armor. Damage boost if you want to damage more, defense boost if you want more defense, so on.
Go own shyt.


TA-DA! You are one of the best people on PSU! If you have money left over, get better stuffs or do a new class.
After this? I dunno. You pretty much "beat" the game. Yes this takes time. A LONG time. I haven't accomplished this myself, but this is my list. Keeping things in check and doing one step at a time really helps. Leaving you less confused and disorganized.
(You're probably thinking "Elitest! Elitest!" right? t(-_-t) You too.)

[Weeaboolits]

I actually find that manor of play exceptionally tedious, I'd much rather just beat things with a frying pan and cat claws till I get bored.

[Iduno]

I like neutral, its unique because all the elitests vomit at the sight of it on their pallete.

(Besides I prefer a pallete ballenced between several weapon types, not the same one in several different colours and I like to save space in my inventory for loot.)

[mvffin]

This is one reason I prefer guns and techs. One weapon, 6 elements. Of the few melee weapons I actually use, I have a few neutral. Mostly drop-only weapons like Al Tip. I use them to level PA's. = \

[Seority]

There arn't any missions with more then 3 elemental types of enemies. Again, you also need to know what kind of weapons do best agains what kind of enimies.
Slicer-/Choutou/Chikki: good for big groups of small enemys
Spear-Majarra: good for all group types
Axe-Jabroga: good for bosses and big and slow enemys

There is slight strategy.
I say there's no good reason to have a neutral on your pallette unless you are
A) Brand new the game.
B) A really shitty player.

If you want it for looks, be my guest. PSU is at the point where you can have almost no clue of what things are, yet be able to solo S rank missions. Just don't ever complain that having two elements of weaps is so difficult, unless you are as stated above, because the game is so easy to play now.

[strikershadow]

deleted...

[Iduno]

^ Ah thats strange because last time I checked all elements of sweet death cause sleep, all elements of the 10* dagger cause silence, all bouqets cause charm and I have never inflicted a status effect with a weapon with an element apart from those 3 and certain weapons where you have to have it in a certain element anyway (this includes whips)

Hmmm maybe my game is glitched or something do you think :P


(in other words this guy is talking out of his ass lol)

Also seority looks are a good reason to have a neutral on your pallete, that and to piss off elitists like you :D

(price doesn't come into it at S-rank since not many people are prepared to sacrifice "omg uber %" for something a little different so you have to make the neutrals yourself then)

[Seority]

Like I said, play with neutral if you like to play bad. You pay just as much as I do to play this game.
If you are happy with it, great! Sorry if I don't help you get rares because of it. Just what both of us prefer isn't it?

[strikershadow]

>.> what? i cnt put my hand on the bible and swear but im almost positive ive caused status effects...

i dont play a hunter type often... although what you say makes sense since i play a fig and sweet death is my favorite weapon and i know that casts silence... mine is earth. hmm

is it true the elements of the weapons dont cast status effects?? if it is eww thats retarded

[Iduno]

Its not playing particularly badly its just playing how you like, I've seen plenty of idiots playing badly with elemental weapons (same element as monster, not dodging, ect.) and I certainly wouldn't boot someone for their weapon choice because its mainly what you do with the weapons that counts now.

And I solo for rares

(btw. strikershadow Sweet Death casts sleep not silence so im guessing you regularly party with someone who uses ground bullets, a ground whip or diga)

[Seority]

Lol I never boot people, unless I'm in Team Rejection.
I'm just saying if I see a bunch of people in a party swing aroung off elemental weapons during the first few runs, I'll LEAVE the party lol.
I don't mind other people getting rares, I just mind idoits getting rares at my expense.
I don't tell others, "My way or the highway!" I just sudjest better ways of playing.
As I stated, it's NOT DIFFICULT WHAT-SO-EVER to get 2 different ele weaps, so people can be better then what they are now, but it's up to them weither they wish to change or not. Either way, we'll both be playing the same game.

[panzer_unit]

Most of the melee weapons I use as a gunner are neutral. They're equipped for PA effects like knockback, the shotgun's for damage. The best thing about gunning is that you don't have to hit your room for new gear when changing missions or planets, like I'm going to screw that up with the few melee weapons I do carry. If it's a Serious Business mission I might grab an elemental saber for Spinning Strike or Gravity Strike as appropriate.

If you're working on a collection of equipment from scratch, the best bet now is to look for good deals on high-% element weapons on Conditional Search for the areas you're going to. Once you've got a bunch of junk you can work on trying for better replacements at your own pace. Way back before the new shop system I'd have suggested grinding a neutral weapon up high while you worked on producing some good ele weapons.

Armor, there are a lot of missions (or even single mobs) where you're getting hit by 2 or 3 elements. If I've got element I usually wear an armor to block the most dangerous techs and take the rest of the damage non-ele, otherwise neutral is "good enough" at least for normal attacks as any high-HP class.

[Seority]

Unfortuntely you miss out on the awesome looking, not to mention high damaging, melee PA's that melee weapons can dish out. But that extra 5 mins does help out a bit huh? ;)
I'd use guns more often if I acctually had them leveled up. Same with techs, but I'm waiting to see if they will acctually cancel the LV5 effects for those.

[strikershadow]

it doesnt take long to level up bullets at all, a shotgun to level 11 in one plains overlord S2 run. theres a safe spot near every spawn of mobs, so you can sit there and not get hit what so ever, and i dont know what your pa for bullet levels are but if your not doing a lot of damage it will level quick. also i was level 80 and solo'ed ragan and won without much difficulty... and its 2 frags :D

but i warn you. its boring as hell... i fell asleep second run :(

[Seority]

I know it's not difficult, I'm just busy mat hunting, Jaggo hunting, and leveling up my melee PA's for Fighmaster.

[panzer_unit]

Unfortuntely you miss out on the awesome looking, not to mention high damaging, melee PA's that melee weapons can dish out. But that extra 5 mins does help out a bit huh? ;)
I'd use guns more often if I acctually had them leveled up. Same with techs, but I'm waiting to see if they will acctually cancel the LV5 effects for those.

Maybe get some lv31+ gun skills and come back when you know what you're talking about?
Use some of the time you're spending to nag at every post in the thread like an old goat.

[Seority]

I don't think your shoties can out damage my Majarra as far as time goes. It's at level 41+ when bullets start to just rape.

[Scline]

I think neutral weapons are indeed a valid option, whereas there are no bonuses, there are no penalties either, except for the "elitists" who will complain if you're not doing the most DPS you can.. I personally plan on making Neutral S-ranks for not only the use, but the sheer entertainment when people are like "omg u nub".

Also, his "shoties" may not out damage your Majarra, but where as you will need atleast 6 spears in your inventory to be able to do any run necessary, he will only need 1 shotgun, using the other 5 slots for other weapons, such as mechguns, rifles, and twin handguns.


You sit there talking about peoples preferences and how you "don't care", you'll just leave the party, but you're about to start an argument because someone enjoys a different class than you.

[CelestialBlade]

The DPS for Shotguns on a CAST or Beast Fortegunner is pretty comparable to Majarra, and though it won't surpass it, you can use a Shotgun a lot longer than you can Majarra plus you have the benefit of SEs. Shotguns are, however, less useful on a large mob than Majarra.

Again, you can earn everything in this game with a palette of neutral weapons, the only difference between using a neutral palette and a well-build elemental palette is how fast you finish the mission. And unless you're soloing, that gap probably isn't that much in reality. But with how easy it is to obtain a palette of 30%+ weapons, why not?

[Magician]

I abhor constantly swapping weapons in and out of my palette.

A neutral palette is cool in my book, it's unique and is the mark of a truely casual PSU player.

I reserve all hate for same-element meleeing guardians, now that's lazy.

[Seority]

Seority: "Here's the best way you can do this..."
Random: "LOL Elitest!"
Seority: "..."

LIke I said, you don't need more then three different element types for missions, unless they are special ones like MAG. Also I've already stated that this game is easy enough to have really crappy things and still be able to get by just fine. Go ahead and use them if you really want. It's up to you. The best choice though is to have at least two different types of elements for melee weapons.

[desturel]

There arn't any missions with more then 3 elemental types of enemies.

Just to nit pick...

Tunnel Recapture has:
Ice (Lapucha, Jishagara)
Fire (Vanda, Drua Gohra, Zoona)
Ground (Bil, Naval)
Light (Kog Nadd)

MAG' has:
Ice
Lightning
Ground
Light
Dark

Forst of Illusion has:
Ice
Lightning
Ground
Light

Of course none of these missions are currently around (except TR, but that has level 90 enemies) so it's nothing more than nit picking. Of course if you count rare creatures, then we can add a few more three element maps to the list.