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Shadowpawn
Jul 17, 2008, 09:00 PM
the older PS titles? Way back in 2004, when PSO was crack, I remember there being large debate topics trying to fit PSO into a sizable timeline within the PS universe.

I'm privy to the idea that PSIII effectively connects PSO with the rest of the series. Seeing as though the "RUINS" is actually the remains of a crashed spaceship I think the ship that you play through several generations in PSIII is that very same ship. That would also explain how Dark Falz/Force got there in the first place.

I would like to see how others think PSO was connected to the older series.

zandra117
Jul 18, 2008, 06:22 AM
In Crys' ending of PSIII the Alisa III lands on Ragol (green planet with 2 moons). After that they evacuate the ship, put a magic seal on it, then bury it to seal Dark Force inside. They then build a settlement at Ravem Aedes Sacra and build the superweapon Leucon Knight which somehow turns on them and destroys them.

Then Pioneer 1 lands on Ragol and opens the ruins of Alisa III awakening Dark Force. Pioneer 2 arrives and tries to figure out what happened. The hunters of pioneer 2 find the ruins and enter. Dark Force is growing on the walls and expanding, trying to break free. It needs to evolve. Hunters that wander deep into the ruins are attacked mentally by Dark Force in a dream sequence. (Dark Falz boss match, a reference to saccubus from the original Phantasy Star.) Dark Force gathers energy from the hunters it attacks. DF is never actually defeated and attempts to evolve into a new Profound Darkness and destroy Ragol but fails thanks to Rico and Flowen's spirits and becomes Ampulam Umbra, a failed evolution. Pioneer 2 finds Ravum Aedes Sacra and defeats the Leucon Knight. A hunter named Endu kills the Ampulam Umbra.

Because in Crys' story of PSIII the NeoPalm worldship is never encountered, I believe NeoPalm goes on to settle at planet Coral where Pioneer 1, 2, and 3 came from.

Sharkyland
Jul 25, 2008, 10:46 PM
I am agreeing to what zandra117 says and I'm using that in my comic, but I hardly touch basis on it.

Aumi
Jul 26, 2008, 06:34 AM
What zandra117 says sounds plausible. And I still believe Gurhal to be Algol, simply because there are too many references (like Parum being almost fully artificial and Moatoob having once been a green planet controlled by humans). Beasts are a possible new evolution branched from numans. So beasts and newmans both came from classical numans (Newmans are actually still a lot like old numans, they got the stats, sadly it can't be implemented in PSU very well, it would be a lot easier if there were dodge moves, then newmans should get a speed boost for both attacking speed and dodge speed, and maybe running speed). But I believe inhabitants from Ragol possibly returned to Algol, renaming it Gurhal. They probably rebuilt Parma, now Parum, and settled down on the other planets. The inhabitants of Dezolis, now Neudaiz (New Dezo), possibly became extinct for whatever reason. And some human bad guys went to Motavia, now Moatoob, created a beast race, possibly from the newman race, and enslaved them as workers for the hardly inhabitable planet. After all, it seems to have lots of resources. This way you could possibly tie everything together. That's my take on it.

landman
Jul 28, 2008, 06:59 PM
I could believe the Phantasy Star III ending - Ragol connection. But this game has 4 endings, and another one links with Phantasy Star 2 (earthlings conquering Algol). But since "dimensional rifts" are very comon in this series all the endings could be true at the same time lol

A Coral connection with any phantasy star game is pure speculation, it just happens that they created newman and CASTs, like Earthlings in Phantasy Star 2...

And Gurhal being Algol is just sad, Motavians, Dezolians, Numan and Muskats extinguished (when genetically they are the better adapted to live longer in Algol), not to mention that Wren and Demi no longer exist.

And most of Aumi points are wrong since Gurhal has a perfectly documented timeline: link (http://psupedia.info/History_of_Gurhal), the only possibility is that Parmanians and Earthlings killed all the races in the system except themselves, and then their civilization fell.

I can't believe Lapuchas are the evolution of Motavians lol

Aumi
Jul 29, 2008, 03:22 AM
Ok, I didn't see that coming, that kills my theory. But what if the Ancient Civilization was actually the civilization of Algol? Or what if the Civilization of Algol was even before that and went extinct because of some event we don't know about. Although that would be stupid. But I like the idea of the Ancient Civilization being the Civilization of Algol. If there's something I didn't take into consideration, tell me.

landman
Jul 29, 2008, 05:20 AM
The ancient civilization in Gurhal did not extinct, they are the actual humans in Gurhal.

According to Phantasy Star 4, the "ancients" in Algol are some kind of God life forms, the ones you meet in Rykros and the ancient enemies of the Profound Darkness

Aumi
Jul 29, 2008, 05:26 AM
That's not what I meant, just cut out the part with getting extinct, that was the latter one, mere speculation. I mean what if the Civilization of Algol is PSU's Ancient Civilization. All about Algol has probably been forgotten over time. And no, I'm not talking about the Classic's "Ancients", but the Ancient Civilization of PSU.

landman
Jul 29, 2008, 05:48 AM
Yes but this theory implies the total genocide of all races by humans xD I don't think Motavians, Dezolians an Rica descendants could get extinct before humans in Algol by natural forces. Are you saying the Illuminus are as old as the Relics in Gurhal? xD

Aumi
Jul 29, 2008, 06:01 AM
Don't forget Numans, I guess by the time there were probably more of them xD Well, yeah, but what if for whatever reason the humans were the only ones to survive. That way it could also make sense that both CASTs (Androids) and Newmans were once again made. But it's only speculation after all. I'd just like some connection between all parts, because of all those damn references. But who knows, probably SEGA'll just give us some alternate universe crap >_>

landman
Jul 29, 2008, 06:36 AM
Why not put Gurhal as the ancient civilization in Algol???? The Illuminus win, only humans survive, the Ancient civilization is known then as Gods, in fact what you talk in PSIV Rykros could be an intelligent stateria with some fire lol then some hero called Landale unifies the system and becomes king, his loyal servant Lashiec is possessed by the ancient demon Falz and the saga begins xD

But the truth is that while PSO had some clues to think it was related to Algol, PSU is just plagiarism made by Sonic Team to Overworks, they have used names (planets and characters) and situations that already existed in previous games because their creative talent nowadays fails to make an original game

zandra117
Jul 29, 2008, 03:17 PM
For how PSO links with PSU

Take a look at this official PSO episode 3 timeline translated by Espiokaos.
http://www.espiokaos.com/misc/ep3_timeline.html

"Communication is received (on Coral) from another planetary search vessel of the successful discovery of another hospitable planet. Multiple immigration plans are discreetly put into action."
The inhabitable planet they discovered was actually the Gurhal Star System. That means that people in PSU are descendants from Pioneer 3.

"Han Walt begins the OPSS incident (a large-scale android massacre) believing it is necessary to control the population." "The androids who fled the massacre by escaping to the surface of Ragol report back to the Security Bureau."

The information about the massacre reaches the Coral government (now immagrated to Gurhal) and starts a CAST civil rights movement that eventually triggers the 500 year war in Gurhal between Humans and CASTs.

Sometime during the 500 year war the communication between Coral and Ragol is lost and never is reestablished.

Also During the 500 year war records of history before immigration are lost and eventually forgotten.

At the end of the 500 year war the Tripartite Alliance Treaty is signed and the date system is changed from A.U.W. to BA (Before Alliance) and AC (Allied Century)

If PSO is linked with Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom through Crys' ending we know that Ragol has a black hole near it, as indicated by 2 of the other PSIII endings. The black hole has multiple exits from the Ragol side, Earth and Gurhal. Everything that passes through the black hole experiences time travel. That explains why Earth is found still inhabited in the alternate ending of PSIII. Also Ragol to Gurhal travels forward in time. Anyways, after the end of PSO episode 3 the people of Ragol had to dispose of C.A.R.D. Technology because it contains the "Germ" produced by Ampulam Umbra that can possibly grow back into a Dark Falz. Fearing the return of Dark Falz they disposed of the C.A.R.D. Technology by tossing it into the black hole. After traveling through the black hole the "Germ" arrived in Gurhal and began to grow and form together, eventually becoming the giant SEED Hive that the Gurhalians labled Rykros, the source of the SEED and an egg for the reborn Dark Falz.

Some of the "Germ" sent through the black hole also ends up at Earth in the past and also forms into a Dark Falz, It does this faster without having to produce SEED to gather energy for itself to grow because at this time the Profound Darkness is still alive, it just telepathically links back up with the Profound Darkness and then is granted enough energy to regenerate back as Dark Force/Falz then it proceeds to corrupt and manipulate the Earthmen. That is how the Dark Force arrived in Phantasy Star 2.

Now... about the ancient civilization of Gurhal.

I believe that it is the Great Light civilization. The original "Confinement War" was actually the war between the Great Light and the Profound Darkness (SEED) civilizations as described in the classic PS series. The Confinement War had multiple fronts, Algol and Gurhal, In Gurhal the profound darkness managed to wipe out the Great Light civilization settled there before they could contain them. After wiping out Gurhal the Profound Darkness moved to Algol. While attacking the Great Light civilization settled in Algol they were Contained inside the dimentional prison. While sealed inside the pocket universe of the Dimentional Prison they combined into one being... The Profound Darkness. The SEED is just the Profound Darkness split into seperate beings like it was originally.

Ok here is my profound darkness origin theory.

In the Japanese version of Phantasy Star IV it says:
Several Hundred Million Years Ago - In an unspecified solar system, a civilization of spirit-life forms divides, and an interplanetary war breaks out.

2,000,000 Years Ago - The war is settled. As a result of the victorious side sealing the defeated side away, one fixed star and four planets are created, "Protectors of the Seal" are made on the four planets, and one kind of sentient life form is allocated to each.

300,000 Years Ago - The entire race of victors was wiped out. Except on the fourth planet, Ryucross, the beings of the other three planets, with the passing of each successive generation, begin to forget the mission of those made Protectors. Meanwhile, in their inter-dimensional prison, the sealed-away spirit-life forms transform into a wicked being, the accumulation of spirits of hatred and vengeance, and, at its core, a profound darkness is formed.

I believe that is a symbolic way of explaining this: (complex fan-theory time ^^)
Before the confinement war the Great Light civilization had settled in two star systems, Algol and Gurhal. The civilization in Gurhal had discovered planet Ragol and had sent an investigation team to study the planet. On Ragol the investigation team ran into the subterranean creatures Saint Million, Shambertin and Kondreiu. The creatures infected the team with a virus (SEED Virus). The infected research team returned to Gurhal and the virus spread then had an outbreak. The first confinement war had begun. The Great Light invented the confinement system to get rid of the SEED. The confinement system in Gurhal was never fully activated and the SEED took over the civilization. The SEED then turned toward Algol, but Algol was ready. The Great Light civilization in Algol had been communicationg with the civilization in Gurhal. They knew the SEED's tactics. When the seed Army arrived in Algol there was a huge battle, many of the Great Light died. There was only a few Great Light left when they successfuly confined the SEED in Algol's "Dimensional Prison". While inside the dimensional prison the SEED combined into a single lifeform, the Profound Darkness.

Some extra facts:
In PSO episode 4, Saint Million, Shambertin, and Kondreiu are never explained as creatures that came from the Ruins, Altered Beasts, or escaped experiments. It also doesn't say that they came from the meteor that hits Ragol. They were just there. This theory actually gives them a purpose other than them just being a random final boss. (Alot of people mistakingly think that Rupika mutated into the serpents but Rupika actually just reacted with the meteor and turned into photon energy, then the energy attracted the serpents from underground sort of like how the SEED is attracted to A-Photon Generators.)

Dr. Osto's experiment, "Beta 772" was created by accelerating the growth of "D cells", the cells that carry the virus. His experiment became De Rol Le, an apparent larval form of Saint Million, Shambertin, and Kondreiu.

Aumi
Jul 29, 2008, 04:14 PM
Interesting, but do you say that the Great Light made two almost, if not completely, identical systems? Other than that, pretty nice theory!

landman
Aug 2, 2008, 02:27 PM
But this theory means the official Gurhal timeline is false, and that during the war the real history was lost and the one they know is not the correct one.
It could be, except for one thing: CASTS and Newman (and Beasts).

If this theory was true then Gurhal CASTS and newmen would be the same species in Coral/Pioneer 2/Ragol, but they are not. CASTS in PSO were barely organic, while they are in PSU, or at least they have a "soul", and newmen in PSO had a very serious illness in their genetic code, they could die at any age without warning, this has nothing to do with newmen and beasts from Gurhal.

zandra117
Aug 4, 2008, 05:04 PM
But this theory means the official Gurhal timeline is false, and that during the war the real history was lost and the one they know is not the correct one.
It could be, except for one thing: CASTS and Newman (and Beasts).

If this theory was true then Gurhal CASTS and newmen would be the same species in Coral/Pioneer 2/Ragol, but they are not. CASTS in PSO were barely organic, while they are in PSU, or at least they have a "soul", and newmen in PSO had a very serious illness in their genetic code, they could die at any age without warning, this has nothing to do with newmen and beasts from Gurhal.

There is stuff revealed in story mode of PSU AOTI that contradict the "official" PSU timeline in the magazine. In Shadow of the Arkguard chapter 3 it is revealed that the humans migrated to Gurhal. I think the timeline is supposed to be the history that the general public knows. Because in the story both Lucaim Nav and Rudolph Luntz say that the history taught to the public of Gurhal is fabricated.

Also CASTs in PSU do not have "souls", thats why in story mode when Karen asks Lou to help deploy the LSS which is controlled by psychic power Lou says "But, I'm a CAST." The only reason CASTs can use technics in PSU is because of the EX Weapon technology (Weapons with interchangeable techniques attached to them) that was being pioneered in PSO. That is also a good reason why no one can cast technics without weapons. The only people you see cast without weapons is the royalty in the Communion of Gurhal who probably continue to practice the old arts as part of their belief system.

The genetic flaws in Newmans were probably fixed with technological advancements leading into PSU. Also in PSU most of the newmans have mixed with humans so those genetic flaws may have been lost when the gene pools mixed. In story mode it does say that most of the newman genetic traits are dominant. The genetic flaws in newmans were probably recessive traits.

Nai_Calus
Aug 5, 2008, 01:08 AM
It's pointless to argue with someone so deluded that they think Palmalatin is a real language, so I'm just going to say that nearly everything Zandra is making up is, exactly that, made up. Theories invented to back up theories that back up theories.

There is no official link. Hell, it was said in an interview once that there's no connection between PS and PSO. All there is is the name and the references.

PSU goes even further and has so many cutesy references it's impossible to rationally come up with anything but 'Aww look at all the oldschool references'.

It's fanservice. Nothing more.

Also, Mirei et al are not casting technics unaided. Did you even pay attention to the story? >_> That photon seal they've got isn't for decoration. It's stated that it's used to bind technics so they can be used without carrying around a wand/rod, and that's why only the upper ranks of the C.O.G. are allowed to have them, since it's dangerous otherwise.

But back to the point. There's no link. I really wish people would quit being so desperate for it to be linked.

(And don't get me started on how much Ep3's attempt to retcon Eps 1&2 to be completely pointless makes me rage. Send Endu back to the shitty Zong I R Destined Hero fanfic he belongs in.)

landman
Aug 5, 2008, 04:04 AM
There is stuff revealed in story mode of PSU AOTI that contradict the "official" PSU timeline in the magazine. In Shadow of the Arkguard chapter 3 it is revealed that the humans migrated to Gurhal. I think the timeline is supposed to be the history that the general public knows. Because in the story both Lucaim Nav and Rudolph Luntz say that the history taught to the public of Gurhal is fabricated.

And in episode 2 Laia or Tonnio is surprised to "discover" that Beasts were slaves in the past, when in Episode 1 the beast in the central plate talks about it. I don't think it's precisely the "oficial" timeline what is taught in Gurhal schools, but what it's hidden.

Also migration could be thousands of years ago, before the first unification point to be exact, if human kind was the only mammal in the Earth I would also think we are from another planet lol

Complex_Jao
Aug 7, 2008, 10:04 PM
maybe there are things in the PSU past that dont get put into the timeline because something so bad happend that they try to forget about it

zandra117
Aug 15, 2008, 06:52 AM
Also, Mirei et al are not casting technics unaided. Did you even pay attention to the story? >_> That photon seal they've got isn't for decoration. It's stated that it's used to bind technics so they can be used without carrying around a wand/rod, and that's why only the upper ranks of the C.O.G. are allowed to have them, since it's dangerous otherwise.


The photon seal is only on Karen and Mirei. It doesnt grant them the ability to cast technics. The mark drains technic power from Karen and uses it to boost Mirei's power. Dohgi Mikuna and some of his guards cast technics without a mark or weapons.


It's pointless to argue with someone so deluded that they think Palmalatin is a real language.
Palmalatin isn't a complete language but the words do have literal definitions. No one speaks it in the PS games but it is used for spell names, enemy names, and place names.
Anyways the quote in my sig is a quote from an old phantasy star themed bbs role play where all the followers of Zio's church would speak palmalatin while in worship.

vanhalendlrband
Dec 26, 2008, 06:46 PM
Any more theories? I'm finding this interesting. I wonder if there will ever be a day to officially join the two series.... if they ever did even if its not turn based I would buy it right away.

People have been saying Zero might have a connection at the end of the game.

Haven't heard about PSP for PSP having a connection.

I'd love their to be a connection as i'd hate to see the name die off.

Aumi
Dec 27, 2008, 07:53 AM
Check out this thread for a connection with PSŲ. http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155885

landman
Nov 20, 2009, 07:06 PM
Hmm necroposting? it was in the first page, but this forum is not very used XD

I just wanted to throw a theory here lol

- Crys's ending LINK (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/genesis/a/phant3_3.htm) Ragol connection theory (the planet they reach could be Ragol in the past) Sean (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/genesis/a/phant3_2.htm)'s and Adan (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/genesis/a/phant3_4.htm)'s endings could also fit here, we just don't see their arrival to the planet. 1000 years later they manage to seal Falz into the ship.
- Aron's ending LINK (http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/genesis/a/phant3.htm) they reach "present" Earth.
- Earth, now called Coral, searches for the origin of the Alissa III, and they find Ragol (dimensional rift and all that, the same ship landed on different time an place, in the same dimension) (this could be possible because each ending takes place in a different dimension/alternate timeline)
- Pioneer 1 goes to Ragol and starts the Mother Project.
- PSO Episodes 1, 2 and 4
- The Mother project is transferred to Coral.
- Mother Trinity destroys Coral's civilization (Great Blank)
- Noah spaceship escapes with a third Mother and reaches Algol :wacko:


I wanted to make one of those at least once :-P