Forgetting about fortegunners

[Delete]

I dont usually make 2 topics at a time, but well... something came across my head. Why is it that fortegunners always get screwed. What i mean is, how come the weapons such as LOve inferno,spread needle, and even the crappy robo pitch grenade (not really the last one) are impossible to get for many players while weapons like agito repcas and psycho wands are not. Im not complaining in any way saying that because i work i dont have time to get a spread needle, what im saying is the truth. What 12star weapon do gunners have to look for? Nothing. Only the same darn rattlesnake,asted,baret, and needle cannon. I can go and buy an decent repca for 50mil, same for pwand. Love inferno? There is none. Spread needle? Nope. Crappy robo pitch? No, youd better save coins for 100 days like i did because theres no buying these. What makes it all the more worse is the fact its probably gonna be this way for a long time.

Let me change just the fact that we aren't getting screwed, but just overlooked.

[gryphonvii]

you can be happy with the fact that with levled bullets and c-rank weapons you can outdamage the average fighter with a s-ranks

[Delete]

Thats true and all gryphonvii, but bullets are boring if they look the same forever. All your doing is raising a number, which isnt really "FUN". But i get your point.

[Soukosa]

GT had it worse, really. The only GT S ranks that were out there til Dark Falz were from harder to get places (like Train Rescue S2...). It was probably best said that higher end guns are harder to get simply because gunners can be so strong with them.

[Turb0]

Maybe so, but FG is one of the only classes that has weapons that are actually rare anymore. While spread needles aren't really rare, you had to be pretty dedicated to get one so they should be valuable. The robopitch sucks statwise, so that's not exactly the best comparison but I know what you're trying to say. As for 12*s, you could always get the love infernoc when we get the parum GBR in 5 years.:-P

[chicken105]

what do you mean you get screwed. Ok, have the best things extremely common. Oh while your at it, check the prices of high % mugunruks or any fighter stuff. That's expensive as well :/. So... ... :/ your not the only one.

[Jainsea]

GT had it worse, really. The only GT S ranks that were out there til Dark Falz were from harder to get places (like Train Rescue S2...). It was probably best said that higher end guns are harder to get simply because gunners can be so strong with them.


I agree with that 100%
FG with proper leveled bullets can wreck havoc from afar with not even the best
equipment.(now with bullets at 31+ its like a slap in the face for monsters) Melle classes have to really get a good % and grind, compared to a range
weapon that doesnt require uber %. I do think maybe ST made them harder to get due to
that. Of course them dropping in certain places that people don't really play helps that
rareness as well.

[Delete]

what do you mean you get screwed. Ok, have the best things extremely common. Oh while your at it, check the prices of high % mugunruks or any fighter stuff. That's expensive as well :/. So... ... :/ your not the only one.


I understand you too, but at least you can see these in shops. The only thing gunners see? The same 11 star weps i mentioned earlier.

[Tetsaru]

This pisses me off as well.

No constantly available 12* gun board - FAIL.

TWO 11* gun boards only available in an annoying mission - FAIL.

Love Inferno board being released for a week with a horrible drop rate - FAIL.

Bullet PA's not changing appearance (save for shotguns and crossbows) every 10 levels - FAIL.

Robopitch Grenade for 1 gold in the casino, plus its annoying sound effect - FAIL.

Song for Death given to EVERYONE during 1-up - FAIL.

Having to spam C rank MAG runs for 3 weeks to get Spread Needle /G - FAIL.

The fact that Astro has all of these weapons already - WTF ;_;

I just hope Japan's Shigga Pakuda and Gur Hanab get here soon... WITHOUT being a pain in the ass to obtain. =/

Oh well... at least we gunners can switch elements on the fly, which actually get better as our bullets level up. Silly melee classes with their randomly generated unchangeable %'s. :3

[Kizeragi]

This pisses me off as well.

No constantly available 12* gun board - FAIL.

TWO 11* gun boards only available in an annoying mission - FAIL.

Love Inferno board being released for a week with a horrible drop rate - FAIL.

Bullet PA's not changing appearance (save for shotguns and crossbows) every 10 levels - FAIL.

Robopitch Grenade for 1 gold in the casino, plus its annoying sound effect - FAIL.

Song for Death given to EVERYONE during 1-up - FAIL.

Having to spam C rank MAG runs for 3 weeks to get Spread Needle /G - FAIL.

The fact that Astro has all of these weapons already - WTF ;_;

I just hope Japan's Shigga Pakuda and Gur Hanab get here soon... WITHOUT being a pain in the ass to obtain. =/

Oh well... at least we gunners can switch elements on the fly, which actually get better as our bullets level up. Silly melee classes with their randomly generated unchangeable %'s. :3

Agree 100%, I think those 12* guns came with Shred the Darkness event? :/ Who knows how long we'll have to wait...

[desturel]

Oh noes! Fortegunners with their infinite stamina, easiest to obtain S-rank armor (lol Rabol Lebfa and Baji-senba), every status affect at their disposal besides stun (lol Masei-sou), and ability to solo any mission without getting hit, are bitching again about how they are being shafted by Sonic Team.

Look guys, your weapons are one and done. Comparing them to Fortefighters who get the shaft TWICE with Agito Repca (lol 10% 3/3 Repca) isn't going to draw you any sympathy from me. Not only that but a good number of fighter S ranks are either element locked (Yamata, Daiga, Skella, etc), race locked (Hon), or gender locked (Man-yu).

For techers, okay we have a Psycho Wand (10 relic edge, 30 diad) and Pushan, but we also lack the ability to take a hit and stay completely out of a fight while still dealing tons of damage. It's an either or situation. Either you do safe stuff like noszonde from a distance and take forever or you get up in the fight with your dam and ra spells. Ra spells aren't as big of a problem when you level them to 31+, but guess what? Laser cannons, shotguns and rifles at 31+ are just as lethal (or even more so with the stun lock/knock down aspect)

Bah, whatever. You keep acting like the martyr in your own little drama and ignore the stuff you can get easily while I keep reaping the benefits. Because you gunners are so lazy I was able to sell 4 needle cannon boards (lol, GoF S2) for 12 mil each in the past week. >.>

Just keep on bitching and ignoring the good weapons you already have and I'll keep on making a profit off of the stuff you are too lazy to hunt for.

P.S. Bullet levels are more important than the weapon you use. The sooner you get use to that fact, the easier your life will be.

P.P.S I have more Spread Needle /G than I have Agito Repca and I'm going for another one so while you are bitching in this tread I'm stealing your precious gunner weapons. :D

P.P.P.S Has all shotguns (except charm), rifles (including killer and mayalee) and Lasers (except mayalee and including phantasm) at 31+ so has a bit of experience at gunner as well.

[amtalx]

Oh noes! Fortegunners with their infinite stamina, easiest to obtain S-rank armor (lol Rabol Lebfa and Baji-senba), every status affect at their disposal besides stun (lol Masei-sou), and ability to solo any mission without getting hit, are bitching again about how they are being shafted by Sonic Team.

Look guys, your weapons are one and done. Comparing them to Fortefighters who get the shaft TWICE with Agito Repca (lol 10% 3/3 Repca) isn't going to draw you any sympathy from me. Not only that but a good number of fighter S ranks are either element locked (Yamata, Daiga, Skella, etc), race locked (Hon), or gender locked (Man-yu).

For techers, okay we have a Psycho Wand (10 relic edge, 30 diad) and Pushan, but we also lack the ability to take a hit and stay completely out of a fight while still dealing tons of damage. It's an either or situation. Either you do safe stuff like noszonde from a distance and take forever or you get up in the fight with your dam and ra spells. Ra spells aren't as big of a problem when you level them to 31+, but guess what? Laser cannons, shotguns and rifles at 31+ are just as lethal (or even more so with the stun lock/knock down aspect)

Bah, whatever. You keep acting like the martyr in your own little drama and ignore the stuff you can get easily while I keep reaping the benefits. Because you gunners are so lazy I was able to sell 4 needle cannon boards (lol, GoF S2) for 12 mil each in the past week. >.>

Just keep on bitching and ignoring the good weapons you already have and I'll keep on making a profit off of the stuff you are too lazy to hunt for.

P.S. Bullet levels are more important than the weapon you use. The sooner you get use to that fact, the easier your life will be.

P.P.S I have more Spread Needle /G than I have Agito Repca and I'm going for another one so while you are bitching in this tread I'm stealing your precious gunner weapons. :D

P.P.P.S Has all shotguns (except charm), rifles (including killer and mayalee) and Lasers (except mayalee and including phantasm) at 31+ so has a bit of experience at gunner as well.

I could write a dissertation on the things wrong with that post, but its way to early to write that much. I'll just leave it as: fighters NEVER have a right to complain, and techers get boned a little. However, if they want the "glass cannon" power I'm always hearing complaints about, be prepared to get the "glass" part too. Mage classes in other games die just from being out in the sun too long.

[desturel]

I could write a dissertation on the things wrong with that post, but its way to early to write that much. I'll just leave it as: fighters NEVER have a right to complain, and techers get boned a little. However, if they want the "glass cannon" power I'm always hearing complaints about, be prepared to get the "glass" part too. Mage classes in other games die just from being out in the sun too long.

Glass cannons in other games are 5 times as strong as other classes quite unlike this game. You are complaining about fighter weapons not fighters in general so make your arguments about the weapons. Not how stupidly overpowered they are (stronger than the glass cannons without the glass part).

I eagerly await your dissertation. Especially since I know you have both the Spread Needle and the Love Inferno.

[chicken105]

I understand you too, but at least you can see these in shops. The only thing gunners see? The same 11 star weps i mentioned earlier.

um, do you see any 50% mugunruks in shops? There's barley even any 46%s on the market.

[Delete]

um, do you see any 50% mugunruks in shops? There's barley even any 46%s on the market.

If your on 360, there are some out at times. I have one for my beast, 50%dark 9/9.

[amtalx]

Glass cannons in other games are 5 times as strong as other classes quite unlike this game. You are complaining about fighter weapons not fighters in general so make your arguments about the weapons. Not how stupidly overpowered they are (stronger than the glass cannons without the glass part).

I eagerly await your dissertation. Especially since I know you have both the Spread Needle and the Love Inferno.

My point about Forces was that they should be prepared to die if they want significantly more power. Right now, Forces can take considerably more punishment than mage classes in other games.

Fighters have always had the easiest weapons to attain. Events shit fighter weapon boards like its the end of days. Techers and fighters get Gaozoran Rod and Bil De Axe boards while gunners get what...Muzzlefevers? Just a recent example. If you are a fighter or techer, you can get a 12*. Will it be expensive? Yes. But at least you don't have to traverse trade boards begging for someone to cough up a Love Inferno for 2+ stacks.

Having those weapons only gives me a better perspective on how much of a struggle it is to have a solid palette as a gunner. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be though. Before AoI and the PSUv1 drop rate rebalance, getting gunner weapons was f*cking criminal. We really had a reason to complain then.

[Delete]

Oh noes! Fortegunners with their infinite stamina, easiest to obtain S-rank armor (lol Rabol Lebfa and Baji-senba), every status affect at their disposal besides stun (lol Masei-sou), and ability to solo any mission without getting hit, are bitching again about how they are being shafted by Sonic Team.

Look guys, your weapons are one and done. Comparing them to Fortefighters who get the shaft TWICE with Agito Repca (lol 10% 3/3 Repca) isn't going to draw you any sympathy from me. Not only that but a good number of fighter S ranks are either element locked (Yamata, Daiga, Skella, etc), race locked (Hon), or gender locked (Man-yu).

For techers, okay we have a Psycho Wand (10 relic edge, 30 diad) and Pushan, but we also lack the ability to take a hit and stay completely out of a fight while still dealing tons of damage. It's an either or situation. Either you do safe stuff like noszonde from a distance and take forever or you get up in the fight with your dam and ra spells. Ra spells aren't as big of a problem when you level them to 31+, but guess what? Laser cannons, shotguns and rifles at 31+ are just as lethal (or even more so with the stun lock/knock down aspect)

Bah, whatever. You keep acting like the martyr in your own little drama and ignore the stuff you can get easily while I keep reaping the benefits. Because you gunners are so lazy I was able to sell 4 needle cannon boards (lol, GoF S2) for 12 mil each in the past week. >.>

Just keep on bitching and ignoring the good weapons you already have and I'll keep on making a profit off of the stuff you are too lazy to hunt for.

P.S. Bullet levels are more important than the weapon you use. The sooner you get use to that fact, the easier your life will be.

P.P.S I have more Spread Needle /G than I have Agito Repca and I'm going for another one so while you are bitching in this tread I'm stealing your precious gunner weapons. :D

P.P.P.S Has all shotguns (except charm), rifles (including killer and mayalee) and Lasers (except mayalee and including phantasm) at 31+ so has a bit of experience at gunner as well.

Hold the hell up there for just a damned second, This is not a complaining statement. Sorry if your blind and cant read my first post, but i clearly said that. Let me go down the list of your mistakes. You say we have the easiest s rank armor to obtain? Whoopdie doo, thing is its just armor, who gives a crap. Beasts dont even need serafi senbas, they can do just ok with a rabol rappy or crimson line. Also, i find most of my own stuff too. I dont care if you find 40 needle cannons, it means nothing to me. You keep also saying bullets lvl 31+, why dont you try lvling one up to 31, unlike fighting pas, bullets take time to level up. And you go ahead and try and get another spread, i dont care because i actually have a life, (yeah i went there, i mean these next sentences to him only) If you have all day to play psu, then you must not have a job for one thing, no girl or no fun in your life at all. I try not to start stuff but i hate when people say im complaining everytime i make a new thread. Why cant you just be like the other people who posted here with nice comments.

[Delete]

Amtalx is a great example of someone i dont ever have problems with. It doesnt bother me that he has the weapons, he deserves them. Ive never seen him go on a topic and pull something like that trash above.

[MysticGoten]

We don't even have Ramar representation in MAG, that ticked me off.

[creativehope]

Lets just say that there are a lot of things the ST could fix with this game. because in all honesty as a female newman fortetecher I feel more like a glass trimate than a glass cannon. fortetechers dont do near enough damage to compare to anyone, fotegunners get jipped on the higher end weapons and fighters have to deal with crap percentages on most of their weapons. but I am guessing that this is the balance of psu

[Xaeris]

Fighters have always had the easiest weapons to attain. Events shit fighter weapon boards like its the end of days. Techers and fighters get Gaozoran Rod and Bil De Axe boards while gunners get what...Muzzlefevers? Just a recent example. If you are a fighter or techer, you can get a 12*. Will it be expensive? Yes. But at least you don't have to traverse trade boards begging for someone to cough up a Love Inferno for 2+ stacks.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on there. "Fighters have always had the easiest weapons to obtain"? You played before AoI, you should know full well that getting a striking board and getting a decent striking weapon out of it are two wholly different feats. And even with AoI, it's no snap of the fingers where S ranks are concerned.

[desturel]

Fighters have always had the easiest weapons to attain. Events shit fighter weapon boards like its the end of days. Techers and fighters get Gaozoran Rod and Bil De Axe boards while gunners get what...Muzzlefevers?

Bulletdance, Rikauteri, and muzzlefever. Again, fighter weapons are dropped by the truckload because getting an optimal fighter weapon is much more difficult than getting an optimal gunner weapon. Gunner weapon. You make it, you grind it. You're done. Fighter weapon. You make it, you get a 10%, you make it again you get a 16%, you make a 50% and you break it on the second grind. Gunners also have the option of changing element and only carrying a few weapons. When you break it down this is what you need as each master class (of course this isn't the most efficient, but it works)

GunMaster: 1 rattlesnake/snac, 1 Spead Needle, 1 Love Inferno/Needle cannon, 1 Twin Tornado.
MasterForce: 1 Psycho Wand, 1 Tesbra 1 Pushan
Fighmaster: 6 Double Agito/Carriguine Rucar, 6 Ank Zagza/Bil De Axe, 6 Agito Repca (high grinds only), 1 Muktengek 5 Mugunruk

The ratio isn't anywhere near even.


Just a recent example. If you are a fighter or techer, you can get a 12*. Will it be expensive? Yes. But at least you don't have to traverse trade boards begging for someone to cough up a Love Inferno for 2+ stacks.

The difference in damage between a Love Inferno+10 and a Needle Cannon+10 is FAR less than a Psycho Wand and anything else released now. Techers do not have a reasonable substitute. Not only that, but techers need the psycho wand to keep up with damage dealt by other classes with lesser weapons.


Having those weapons only gives me a better perspective on how much of a struggle it is to have a solid palette as a gunner. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be though. Before AoI and the PSUv1 drop rate rebalance, getting gunner weapons was f*cking criminal. We really had a reason to complain then.

Before AoI, how many Psycho Wands and Agito Repca did you see around? If you are taking it back to the day, take it back to the day for every weapon. Even seeing a Kazarod was amazing until the drop rate re-balance.

Before AoI, I had Blackbull, Shigga Desta, Degahna Cannon and Meteor Cannon on my gunner. My techer had a Rikauteri and Halarod. My fighter had a [b]Bil De Axe, but no horn, a 22% Skella, and a 16% Daiga-Misaki. Hmm... I think my gunner had the better haul.

[desturel]

You say we have the easiest s rank armor to obtain? Whoopdie doo, thing is its just armor, who gives a crap. Beasts dont even need serafi senbas, they can do just ok with a rabol rappy or crimson line.

My beast is a gunner. My cast is a fighter. My neuman is a protranser/acrofighter/acrotecher. My Human is a fortetecher. Beast does not equal fighter. Once you get that through you head, continue to read my responses. BTW, gunners having the easiest armor to get makes a big difference in how easily you can complete certain missions. Not having to dodge megid saves more time than you would initially think. Not a problem for a fighter, but definitely a problem for a techer.


Also, i find most of my own stuff too. I dont care if you find 40 needle cannons, it means nothing to me.

Lol, not just needle cannon friend. That was an example, but if you want to think that's the only thing I find, that's okay by me.


You keep also saying bullets lvl 31+, why dont you try lvling one up to 31,

Read comprehension? I do have level 31 bullets. All rifle bullets were to 31 before the PA rebalance. I even spent 4 days (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138317) comparing how quickly bullets leveled vs how quickly techs leveled.

All elemental shotgun bullets, 3 laser cannon bullets, 5 twin handgun, 4 crossbow, all cards, and 5 longbow bullets were all to 31 before the PA rebalance. Meanwhile I only have 6 striking PAs past 31 and my fortefighter was level 30 before MA:G came back (now he's 60). That's how much I play fortefighter.


unlike fighting pas, bullets take time to level up.

Lol, no they don't. Not anymore. Got Barada Maga from 1-31 in a bit less than 8 hours worth of time.

[amtalx]

Bulletdance, Rikauteri, and muzzlefever. Again, fighter weapons are dropped by the truckload because getting an optimal fighter weapon is much more difficult than getting an optimal gunner weapon. Gunner weapon. You make it, you grind it. You're done. Fighter weapon. You make it, you get a 10%, you make it again you get a 16%, you make a 50% and you break it on the second grind. Gunners also have the option of changing element and only carrying a few weapons. When you break it down this is what you need as each master class (of course this isn't the most efficient, but it works)

GunMaster: 1 rattlesnake/snac, 1 Spead Needle, 1 Love Inferno/Needle cannon, 1 Twin Tornado.
MasterForce: 1 Psycho Wand, 1 Tesbra 1 Pushan
Fighmaster: 6 Double Agito/Carriguine Rucar, 6 Ank Zagza/Bil De Axe, 6 Agito Repca (high grinds only), 1 Muktengek 5 Mugunruk

The ratio isn't anywhere near even.



First, Rikauteri is more of a techer weapon than a gunner weapon, and Machineguns are among the most ATP independent (if not the most) weapon types in the entire game. Fighters still get far more high end useful weapons. If I were going purely on star rating I would have brought up all those 12* Kubaras that fighters have access too while gunners have access to only one...correction, HAD access to only one.

You don't need high percent/grinds on all those weapons any more than I need to have every Rifle element at 40. Is it nice? Sure, but you don't need to be be effective. I do actually have all my Rifle bullets leveled, but several of them I almost never use. Its the same thing for fighters. There are some elements that aren't particularly useful for certain weapon types. The only weapon I can say I'm honestly glad that I have every bullet at 40 is my Shotguns.

Anyway, the day that I see a one 12* gunner weapon for every six 12* fighter weapons, I'll shut up.

[Xaeris]

If you're seriously claiming that fighters don't need high percents on their weapons and that they're just a luxury, then just how do you reconcile that with your complaint that S rank guns are difficult to find when they're incremental improvements over their A rank counterparts? I mean, if % isn't important to you, the 75 ATP difference between a Rattlesnake and a Phantom should bother you even less.

[amtalx]

I'm not saying they don't need high percents; however, I am saying they don't need high percents of every single weapon type like some claim.

[Neith]

What i mean is, how come the weapons such as LOve inferno,spread needle, and even the crappy robo pitch grenade (not really the last one) are impossible to get for many players while weapons like agito repcas and psycho wands are not.

400+ runs says otherwise.

There's a load of easy Fortegunner drops (and no, Desert Goliath does not count as hard). Love Inferno people got screwed out of, but Spread Needle will drop in the future anyway. May have different stats, but there's enough to choose from as is.

[Delete]

What i meant neith is at least you have a very low chance to find that weapon, i never said it was easy, but you dont have to worry about spending 2 stacks for it. Heck, 9/9 psycho wands are only 99999999. Expensive, but its there unlike love infernos and spreads.





.
Lol, no they don't. Not anymore. Got Barada Maga from 1-31 in a bit less than 8 hours worth of time.

And this is why you clearly have no life, :lol:

[GlowSticks]

It really all depends on the player, seriously i've seen a lot of dry shots on FG's aka no damage so w/e yes Guns FTW if pro, yea idk.

[Telina]

you do understand that even when you get your 12* weapons, provided they're not kubara uniques, your high grinded 10 and 11* weps will remain better.

bullets not changing does suck, and which is why i can't stand gunner classes. But if they did change i bet they'd just get really annoying knowing sega, bigger muzzle flashes would kill shooting in first person as well.

[Sexy_Raine]

Melee weapon [B]'s are a friggin' joke to get. I never found the Love Inferno from the Jaggos after like 100+ of them. The twin Bear Claw [B] dropped on the first damn run on the first Jaggo.

Fortegunner pretty much got the shaft on S rank weapon selection. Compare it to Gunmaster's 4 S ranks, they share 3 of them. What's left? S rank handguns? Who the hell cares. S rank Grenades are the only thing it will have. Fortegunner will pretty much be obsolete when Gunmaster hits. They're the only class not to get gain new S rank weapons in AOI, besides fortetecher(but their selection is fine).

Those who say raising a gunner is easier than fighter need to be smacked. Try raising 6 elements of the laser cannon, and tell me how it is. My FF friggin' flew through Anga Dugrena lv40(not as hard as people say it is) so don't give me that bullshit. Not to mention you only need one melee PA per weapon to be effective.

[Tiyr]

No one's saying a gunner is overall easier to raise, but what people are getting at is that melee boards are easier to get for two reasons:

1) The weapon, once made, is set element, unlike guns, and
2) variable %s.

Fact is, when anyone says that good %s are a luxury, what they don't realize is that a decent percentage nine star--even, say, a 30% or so--is a superior weapon to a 10 or 12% ten or eleven star.

Which means that you can fail the thing in many, many ways, even if you've found it. And even assuming you GET a decent percentage, it's one element.

Fighters get more weapon boards because they need more weapons. You get one decently ground Twin Tornado and you don't need another pair of twinnies. At all.

I play a fG and a GT, so I've dealt with both. Gunner gear is a pain to get, but once you get it you're done. And frankly, I don't get hung up on the number of stars. I mean, twin DB sabers are "only" A rank, but their stats are far better than a Two-Headed Ragnus, so really, who cares?

That said, I agree that it'd be nice if some of the higher up gunner weapons were at least available somewhere outside of special events and seasonal stuff.


Melee weapon [B]'s are a friggin' joke to get. I never found the Love Inferno from the Jaggos after like 100+ of them. The twin Bear Claw [B] dropped on the first damn run on the first Jaggo.

Fortegunner pretty much got the shaft on S rank weapon selection. Compare it to Gunmaster's 4 S ranks, they share 3 of them. What's left? S rank handguns? Who the hell cares. S rank Grenades are the only thing it will have. Fortegunner will pretty much be obsolete when Gunmaster hits. They're the only class not to get gain new S rank weapons in AOI, besides fortetecher(but their selection is fine).

Those who say raising a gunner is easier than fighter need to be smacked. Try raising 6 elements of the laser cannon, and tell me how it is. My FF friggin' flew through Anga Dugrena lv40(not as hard as people say it is) so don't give me that bullshit. Not to mention you only need one melee PA per weapon to be effective.

[LuigiMario]

Maybe so, but FG is one of the only classes that has weapons that are actually rare anymore. While spread needles aren't really rare, you had to be pretty dedicated to get one so they should be valuable. The robopitch sucks statwise, so that's not exactly the best comparison but I know what you're trying to say. As for 12*s, you could always get the love infernoc when we get the parum GBR in 5 years.:-P

No Spread Needles in shops.

[chicken105]

If your on 360, there are some out at times. I have one for my beast, 50%dark 9/9.

really? 50% one stack? well how about you sell me yours for 175m and go buy another 50% dark for a stack. sounds like deal huh? :/

edit: Gunners are more dependant on there PAs. I think a person with a 3/10 meteor cannon with lvl 40 bullet would do more than a 10/10 love inferno with a lvl 1 bullet. :/

[desturel]

And this is why you clearly have no life, :lol:

First I suck because you assume I'm a fighter. Then I suck because I'm not?

Since spending 8 hours of your time to get something done is too difficult for you, it now makes sense why you are whining about how "hard" it is to find anything. I'd hate to see what would happen to you in a game like WoW or Final Fantasy 11 where items are much harder to find.

[jobber]

dude

welcome to 2007!


Being a gunner/ranger since the game started, I've seen my share of gunners getting screwed.

Here's the fun part, stop bitching and try to make the best of it.

It took me like 3 days in the casino to get up to 1 gold. It's going to be pointless to have one if you switch to the Master class anyway.

The released Spread is nerfed and it doesn't do anything special.

Gather up some Rattlesnakes and Barets.

[Delete]

First I suck because you assume I'm a fighter. Then I suck because I'm not?

Since spending 8 hours of your time to get something done is too difficult for you, it now makes sense why you are whining about how "hard" it is to find anything. I'd hate to see what would happen to you in a game like WoW or Final Fantasy 11 where items are much harder to find.

You like turning things around, but whatever. I dont have to sink in to your level and keep arguing with ya. Im way more mature then that. So you go ahead and have no life. (so much for being mature)

[Delete]

And jobber, im not %$#%$, so please stop saying that because it does kinda get me mad. Judging by how many people agree with what i said, i think it is true that fortegunners are not getting screwed, but just not recognized enough. Im not exactly asking for 12 star weapons in particular, id be happy with even the holy ray, and yes lvl 31 bullets does its damage as well as we have every element at our disposal. But heres the thing. We have to level those bullets up. Someone said you need a good % to have a good weapon? Well if you look in shops, alot of 9* fighter weapons 30-36% and even 38* are stupidly cheap. Soda riban in particular are mostly 50k with good percents. And spending just 2 mil can get you a 38% 10/10 riban as well. So overall, you put all that together and i think that explains it a little better.

Oh and its 2008, not 7. ^x2

[Bman40]

Fortegunner will pretty much be obsolete when Gunmaster hits.

wow. that is complete bullshit, fortegunners will still be much better than gunmaster, fortegunners have better stats in almost every catagory and have better weapon selection. the only thing that gunmasters have going for them is a very, very slight speed boost. and i would rather have the ability to rape bosses(grenades) and keep my 10/10 twin rubies which kick the living crap out of any s rank twin pistol out than have a small boost to speed and less stats and a limited set of weapons

[shotsfired]

the faster you all realize it is not about the weapons strength, ACC, etc., but about the LOOKS of a weapon, all your arguements will stop. I know 10/10 9* are stronger then 10* weps, but they dont LOOK as cool. That is why we want more 10* + gunner weps..... we want cooler looking weps!!

If you want to argue the fact that techers and fighters do not have cooler looking weps than gunners, that my friends is complete B.S.

so, to summarize....

we as gunners want cool looking weps, because techers and fighters have alot more the choose from.

[amtalx]

wow. that is complete bullshit, fortegunners will still be much better than gunmaster, fortegunners have better stats in almost every catagory and have better weapon selection. the only thing that gunmasters have going for them is a very, very slight speed boost. and i would rather have the ability to rape bosses(grenades) and keep my 10/10 twin rubies which kick the living crap out of any s rank twin pistol out than have a small boost to speed and less stats and a limited set of weapons

Did you forget that GM has Lvl 50 bullets? I'll attribute that post to inexperience, but GM far exceeds the damage capabilities of fG. Also, its a 30% speed boost. That is not slight.

[ErtaiClou]

Armor and gun combos:

De Colte line and sniper rifle

Green Green line and koltova

Gee, thanks a lot for giving Gunmasters stormline >_>

[Alastor_Haven]

wow. that is complete bullshit, fortegunners will still be much better than gunmaster, fortegunners have better stats in almost every catagory and have better weapon selection. the only thing that gunmasters have going for them is a very, very slight speed boost. and i would rather have the ability to rape bosses(grenades) and keep my 10/10 twin rubies which kick the living crap out of any s rank twin pistol out than have a small boost to speed and less stats and a limited set of weapons

Fail No

A shotgun can replace Grenade
Level 50 bullets> 10/10 Twin
Speed increase Making SHOTGUNS= Gatling guns
Better traps

So ...

No

[Tessu]

Techers are better than everything anyway, and always will be, damage-dealing, taking, and speedwise. So you shut your mouth about gun classes because when it comes right down to it, techers own everything.

[Nitro Vordex]

Techers are better than everything anyway, and always will be, damage-dealing, taking, and speedwise. So you shut your mouth about gun classes because when it comes right down to it, techers own everything.

End the thread right here.

[jobber]

And jobber, im not bitching, so please stop saying that because it does kinda get me mad. Judging by how many people agree with what i said, i think it is true that fortegunners are not getting screwed, but just not recognized enough. Im not exactly asking for 12 star weapons in particular, id be happy with even the holy ray, and yes lvl 31 bullets does its damage as well as we have every element at our disposal. But heres the thing. We have to level those bullets up. Someone said you need a good % to have a good weapon? Well if you look in shops, alot of 9* fighter weapons 30-36% and even 38* are stupidly cheap. Soda riban in particular are mostly 50k with good percents. And spending just 2 mil can get you a 38% 10/10 riban as well. So overall, you put all that together and i think that explains it a little better.

Oh and its 2008, not 7. ^x2

Were you even around in 2007? 1Up cup didn't drop crap for gunners except bullet pp save. Even fire break was crappy.

Isn't Holy Ray a 1 hand gun which you can't use on gM?

Soda Riban is cheap because it drops like photons in MAG.

The missions to hunt for Barets, Rattlesnakes, and Blackbulls are difficult, but by no means impossible. This goes back to mob mentality people have. Doing White Beast isn't going to give gunners crap.

[Dragwind]

Apparently this is serious business. Try to keep calm and stay on topic folks ;)

[DOOMY DOOOOOM]

I am still mad because fighmaster cant use rifles...

[desturel]

we as gunners want cool looking weps, because techers and fighters have alot more the choose from.

This is an even worse argument than the "because our stuff isn't strong enough". Gunners have more weapons than techers and thus more S-ranks, thus more cool looking weapons.

Techer S-ranks:
Uransara, Tesbra
Dori, Doric, Coni, Pushan
Halarod, Halarodoc, Kazarod, Kazarodoc, Gaozoran Rod, Psycho Wand
Kohibumiteri, Hirokteri, Hirokteric, Rikauteri, Rikauteric
Shi-kikami, Shi-kikamic, Hoshi-kikami, Hoshi-kikamic
21 total weapons (9 that are ranged weapons)
Minus Kubara copies 14
Minus Guntecher shared weapons 12

Gunner S-rank:
Shigga Desta, Shigga Destac, Shigga Baret, Shigga Barec, Spread Needle /G
Blackbull, Blackbullic, Rattlesnake, Rattlesnac, Mizurakihoh, Mizurakihoc
Gur Bazga, Gur Bazgac, Gur Asted, Gur Astec, Song for Death, Robopitch Grenade/C
Hyper Viper, Hyper Vipric, Twin Tornado, Twin Tornadoc
Meteor Cannon, Meteor Cannoc, Needle Cannon, Needle Cannoc, Ryusaikanoh, Ryusaikanoc, Love Inferno, Love Infernoc
Cubo Musrana, Cubo Musranac, Cubo Tuma, Cubo Tumac
Muzzlefever, Muzzlefevic, Bulletdance, Bulletdancic
Viper, Vipric, Storm, Stormic
Ebrozike, Frauduke
43 total weapons
Minus Kubara Copies 24
Minus Guntecher weapons (which already didn't include longbow and wand) 17
Minus RCSM 15

Wow, check that out, taking out all of the weapons that you guys hate to use, you still have more than a techer has unless you include their kubara weapons which are weaker than most 8* rods and wands.

"What about shato?"
"What about Twin Ruby Bullet?"
"What about Man Brella and Madam Brella?"
They aren't S-rank so I'm not counting them.

Next I'll break down that list to just the "useful" stuff as according to what people consider good (whether the other stuff is just as good or not):

Gunner "useful" weapons (because you know we can't be seen with 10* weapons):
Rattlesnake/nac, Baret, SN/G, Asted, Twin Tornado, Needle Cannon, Love inferno

That's 8.

Now for the techer's "useful" weapons:
Psycho Wand, Pushan, Tesbra

That's 3.

Gunner wins again.

If you say throw in Gaozoran Rod I say throw in SFD and Black Bull.

Even if you make that a Gunmaster list (and remove the limited time items):
Rattlesnake/snac, Baret, Twin Tornado, Needle Cannon

You beat techer 5 to 3 (pushan is a limited time item, but there are lots more on the market, so I'm including it in the techer list. The next best available is Coni)

Gunner only S rank armor
Storm Line, Castest Line

Techer only S rank armor:
Baji-senba, Al-senba

LOL, need I even point out the problems with the techer armor? Everyone can wear Serafi-senba so this isn't a "techer" armor. It would be like listing De Colt Line as a gunner armor. Fighters have no exclusive armor. Protransers also get the shaft when it comes to S-rank armors, but they do have their choice of weapons.

Now for armors with set bonuses (only going for A-rank sets)
Storm line, Phantom line, Rabol Asted, Rabol Dunga, Rabol Neda.

With the exception of Rabol Neda, I see gunners use all of these armors even now.

Techer bonus armor are:
Baji-senba (for a wand not even release yet), Rikau-senba (for a Rikauteri), Al-senba (Alteri), Ridol-senba (Lidra)

Hmm, nothing really useful except for Rikau-senba and that's only for techers that use longbow.

Fighters do come out ahead on set bonuses at least:
Crimson line, Walker Line, Nafri-senba (lol), Gigush Line (lol again), Rabol Gant, Fuma-senba, Yamata-senba, Serafi-senba

Of these armors Crimson line, Rabol Gant, Fuma-senba and Yamata-senba are the only ones I see being used for their set bonus. Serafi-senba gets used whether you are using daggers of Serafi or not. Gigush line and Nafri-senba are good pre-expansion but now... well it's not bad if you have NO other long swords, but you don't want to rely on a gigush for too long. Nafli-zashi is garbage even with the set. Get some Lumiess Blau or Katsuno-zashi.

Next, who hurts more because they are missing the next level up weapon. First gunners:

Love Inferno +10 850 atp
Needle Cannon +10 765 atp
Difference of 95 atp

You need 7 grinds on Love Inferno to beat Needle Cannon. Any of you using a Love Inferno with less than 7 grinds, are wasting your time. Hunt Needle Cannon, get it to +10

Now lets look at top end techer stuff.
Psycho Wand +10 1168 tech
Gaozoran Rod +10 1030 tech
Difference 138 tech

You need 4 grinds on Psycho Wand to beast Gaozoran Rod. Plus with the 12 recharge on PW vs the 3 recharge on Gao, you will go longer between photon charges using Psycho Wand making it longer lasting. Kazarod only gets 831 tech at 10 BTW. Gao +4 is better. A 0 grinded psycho wand is better.

Finally fighter weapons:
Agito Repca +10 1531 atp
De Ragan Slayic +10 986atp
Difference 545 atp

Needless to say there isn't even any comparison there. Even a 10% Repca at 10 grinds should beat a 50% slayic at 10 grinds. However a 50% ice slayic should beat a 10% fire repca on a fire creature, meaning you'll need to get at least 6 of those 10% Repca and grind each one to 10...

[desturel]

The missions to hunt for Barets, Rattlesnakes, and Blackbulls are difficult, but by no means impossible. This goes back to mob mentality people have. Doing White Beast isn't going to give gunners crap.

Blackbull is quite easy. True Darkness S is a 8 minute run if you are screwing around. 5 min run if you are serious.

Desert Goliath is also a rather easy 15~20 minute solo as compared to running Electronic Brain for Grand Cross.

[Bupon]

No, dont do it.

[Arika]

Direct to topic~
the system actually are fair enough at some point.

Fighter low % stuff are easiest to get, because they are junk product result from trying to get high %.
Techer stuff are easy to get, because they are weak, no matter what star they use.
Gunner stuff are harder to get, because they can be strong with it.
Fighter high % stuff are hardest to get, because they can be the strongest with it.



-Only point that melee weapon drop so much is to get high %, while low % are for NPC (this is what happen in JP)
-even you want to compare on grinding, I will say it is harder to get good melee at 50% element 10/10 than any kind of good gun 10/10
-SEGA give techer easy to grind, so that they can be a bit stronger.

At the end, which class you like?
Strongest class with hardest gear to find, medium level class with medium rare gear, or the weakest classes that you don't need to worry about finding gear.

[BIGGIEstyle]

Before I get down to the OP idea I gotta comment on this...

Fortegunners will still be much better than gunmaster, fortegunners have slightlybetter stats in almost every category
Edited


The only thing that gunmasters have going for them is a very, very slight speed boost. and i would rather have the ability to rape bosses(grenades) and keep my 10/10 twin rubies which kick the living crap out of any s rank twin pistol out than have a small boost to speed and less stats and a limited set of weapons
1: 30% Speed boost makes a rifle only slightly slower than a machine gun. I've played both a FG and a GM on the JP servers. GM rapes.
2:10/10 twin rubies are the best for now. The GM I have on the JP servers has a pair of Battlestoppers which are FAR better than Twin rubies in both appearance and dmg. Although if you want the Dmg from a GM it's Lv50 shotgun bullets and Lv50 rifles with speed boosts.

And back to the idea at hand about FGs having dirt for equips.

I agree to an extent. It is harder to get gunner gear but that's just because of the fact that you don't have to worry about percentages on your weapon. All a gun needs is a grind. Striking weapons need good %, and Good Grind which makes a high-class striking weapon just as hard to get as a high-class Gun.

From playing both sides of the coin I think Techers get shafted the most (only 3 good S ranks) and I agree that most gunners should just deal. You have more than 3 weapons out there to find. And while there are a slew of tech weapons out in S rank all but 1 are beat by a 10/10 Chao staff of which I've seen/had a grand total of over 20.

Fighters win for equips.
Gunners are slightly behind
Techers are the Sh*t upon children here.

[$5Footlong]

what do you mean you get screwed. Ok, have the best things extremely common. Oh while your at it, check the prices of high % mugunruks or any fighter stuff. That's expensive as well :/. So... ... :/ your not the only one.Fighters can still hunt Mugunruks at Cost of Research all the time, while Gunners cannot hunt Love Inferno until next year, so I'd say fighters have it a bit easier. Not to mention Spread Needle/G which is a pain to achieve and will be gone after the event.

[desturel]

Fighters can still hunt Mugunruks at Cost of Research all the time, while Gunners cannot hunt Love Inferno until next year, so I'd say fighters have it a bit easier.

Mugunruk = 10* = Meteor Cannon = Halarod.
Mugunruk = Kog Nadd
Meteor Cannon = Polavohra
Halarod = Jarba

Comparing it to the Love Inferno is a bit out there.

[chicken105]

Fighters can still hunt Mugunruks at Cost of Research all the time, while Gunners cannot hunt Love Inferno until next year, so I'd say fighters have it a bit easier. Not to mention Spread Needle/G which is a pain to achieve and will be gone after the event.
ok, but you missed my point if you make a 29% or lower in mugunruks. They are useless cause of FOI. Not to mention, mugunburgacs are better than mugunruks if you grind them. So mugunruks are not the best. Good luck getting a love inferno to 7/X. That's what you need to beat a needle cannon.
i would need to find ALOT of mugunruk boards byMYSELF to make a 50. Unless I get very lucky. Then I would loose a lot of $$ trying to make a 50%.

Not to mention you have elements. As love inferno, you do not.
Mugunruk 50% cost about 125-140m on the 360 server if its X/10. or X/9.
Love inferno 0/10 would go for 300-325m.
I could get 3. While you get 1 and you're done with elementals. You would need to grind it 7 sure. But I would have to hunt down 3 more as well. Which is 2X the price.

[Golto]

I think the main gripe is that the only regular version 12* weapon board that drops from a seasonal monster just has to be a gunner's weapon. If it was some special kubara only crap it wouldn't be a problem.

[Sexy_Raine]

Before I get down to the OP idea I gotta comment on this...

Edited


1: 30% Speed boost makes a rifle only slightly slower than a machine gun. I've played both a FG and a GM on the JP servers. GM rapes.
2:10/10 twin rubies are the best for now. The GM I have on the JP servers has a pair of Battlestoppers which are FAR better than Twin rubies in both appearance and dmg. Although if you want the Dmg from a GM it's Lv50 shotgun bullets and Lv50 rifles with speed boosts.

.

You pretty much saved my time of needing to explain GM. Well said.

[Niloklives]

seriously...30% speed boost+ lvl 50 bullets > FG

[Akaimizu]

Some good power is what you expect from an all out offensive, but streamlined, class. I think the main issue about leaving Fortegunner is leaving all those good equips behind for a much smaller set.

Technically, any gunner will have to give up all those nice equips to be one. If you have too much fun with equips a Gunmaster can't use; you'll probably take some time to go back and run with the older class. On the other hand, the extra speed sounds like a good recipe to raise bullets you haven't capped yet. (At least for the guns they can use. Which,fortunately, are amongst the slowest ones).

[Delete]

the faster you all realize it is not about the weapons strength, ACC, etc., but about the LOOKS of a weapon, all your arguements will stop. I know 10/10 9* are stronger then 10* weps, but they dont LOOK as cool. That is why we want more 10* + gunner weps..... we want cooler looking weps!!

If you want to argue the fact that techers and fighters do not have cooler looking weps than gunners, that my friends is complete B.S.

so, to summarize....

we as gunners want cool looking weps, because techers and fighters have alot more the choose from.

This pretty much sums up another point right here.

[BIGGIEstyle]

the faster you all realize it is not about the weapons strength, ACC, etc., but about the LOOKS of a weapon, all your arguements will stop. I know 10/10 9* are stronger then 10* weps, but they dont LOOK as cool. That is why we want more 10* + gunner weps..... we want cooler looking weps!!

If you want to argue the fact that techers and fighters do not have cooler looking weps than gunners, that my friends is complete B.S.

so, to summarize....

we as gunners want cool looking weps, because techers and fighters have alot more the choose from.
Eh... I dunno. I think Uransaras look pretty lame. So do things like Halarods and Pushans.

Hyper Vipers are still one of my favorite looking weapons. The Gur Asted rocks (literally) with it's big rock launching animation. A big pink cannon that shoots big pink hearts? Hey if that's your thing...

I agree that rifles can use something cool looking, but I don't think the Mizurakihoh looks so bad, and at least the SHOTS from the blackbull are cool.

[Delete]

Gunner S-rank:
Shigga Desta, Shigga Destac, Shigga Baret, Shigga Barec, Spread Needle /G
Blackbull, Blackbullic, Rattlesnake, Rattlesnac, Mizurakihoh, Mizurakihoc
Gur Bazga, Gur Bazgac, Gur Asted, Gur Astec, Song for Death, Robopitch Grenade/C
Hyper Viper, Hyper Vipric, Twin Tornado, Twin Tornadoc
Meteor Cannon, Meteor Cannoc, Needle Cannon, Needle Cannoc, Ryusaikanoh, Ryusaikanoc, Love Inferno, Love Infernoc
Cubo Musrana, Cubo Musranac, Cubo Tuma, Cubo Tumac
Muzzlefever, Muzzlefevic, Bulletdance, Bulletdancic
Viper, Vipric, Storm, Stormic
Ebrozike, Frauduke

Since when can fortegunners use S rank machine guns? Oh right, they cant. So scratch those off. And why is there love infernos when they dont exist anymore in the game? Seriously, even if someone put a 1/1 love inferno out, it would sell in less than an hour. I dont know any gunners who even use cubo tumas/tumacs because they kinda suck( in my opinion anyway). Also, im pretty sure we cant use s rank Rcsm's or whatever ebrozikes weapon class is called. Those are for fighgunner and acrofighter. Plus, single pistols is another weapon most gunners do not use.
Im not sure why you posted a whole essay on this, but like you told me, all that time you coulda been playing psu or something. I didnt even read the whole thing. :lol:

I agree with ya biggie, except the uransara, i like those, but basically when you get down to it, heres a gunners usual list of weapons they will use once they can afford the following.

Rifles:Blackbull, Rattlesnake, mizuraki and sometimes phantoms if there 10/10 or some 9/9.
Grenade launchers: Gur asted, song for death possibly
Twin pistols: Twin rubys, arb boa's
Shotguns: Shigga desta, shigga baret
Laser cannons: Ryusaikanoh, needle cannon, and the awesome degahna cannon.

These are a gunners usual weapons from the many gunners I see online. Now i know theres kubara weapons too, but unless you can grind stuff well, then they are not always useful. The only weapons that i would point out as looking cool are degahna cannons, gur asted kinda, shigga desta, (i love this shotgun and always will) and the rattlesnake and blackbull a little. Thing is, rifles are usually what we use most, so the rattlesnake starts to look a little uncool(only word i could think of at the moment, i know, wow is he dumb). Ive had more fun using phantoms just because at least the bullets have different colors. So there.

[shotsfired]

Desturel you are putting alot of thought into this.....

The kubara weps look exactly the same as their counterpart!! My argument was looks.

lets talk about only 10* and up... (cause 7-9* for all classes look the same, do not have any special animation, etc.)

Gunners - Blackbull looks awesome, bullets are sweet
Rattlesnake - looks like a swordfish, but i like the look, plus the bullet is ok.
I prefer the hyper viper of the looks of the twin tornado. the T. Tornado
looks like a star trek gun.
gur asted - the rock animation is cool....
some like the mizurakioh, eh.....
i like the dragon cannon and shigga baret


the handguns are the same as the twins, only one, so they do not count, plus they suck

TECHERS-
Halarod - I personally like the animation with the halo-like circles and the wing like look
Gaozoran Rod - pretty kick ass looking rod...
Psycho Wand - yeah, awesome...
Kazarod - the swirly top, nice....
Tesbra - love the blackish smoke around when you cast
Uransara - the glow can bother my eyes...
I also like Hoshi-kikami, shi-kikami, rikauteri and the 10* bow, which is slipping my memory now...


Fighters-

Zagza, repca, grand cross, svaltus sword, dragon slayic, tyrant spadac, kan-yu, i like the huge cutter, gudda skela, gudda iggac, i also like the gudda hon, muktengek, gekinsnata (lol, i think it looks like a giant lance.... joust boy!),

so, at least by my count, and i know i missed some kick ass weps ( rucar anyone??) i have

fighter - 13
techer - 10
gunner- 8, and i even included the ugly twin tornado.

this is my closing statement.

Check mate...

[Hrith]

You forgot a lot of weapons, there.

Released Fortegunner S grade weapons are, not counting Kubara replicas:
-Gur Bazga, Gur Asted, Song for Death, Robopitch Grenade/C
-Viper, Storm
-Ryusaikanoh, Meteor Cannon, Needle Cannon, Love Inferno
-Mizurakihoh, Blackbull, Rattlesnake
-Shigga Desta, Shigga Baret, Spread Needle/G

Fortefighter has:
-Okanoh, Ank Dedda, Ank Zagza, Bil De Axe, Ank Butic
-Daiga-Misaki, Zanshu-Misaki, Ohga-Misakic
-Gudda Skela, Gudda Hon, Gudda Iggac
-Crimson, Blackheart, Apocalypsic, Setsuko's Skillet
-Mugunruk, Muktengek, Mugunburgac, Gekitsnata
-Svaltus Sword, Huge Cutter, Kan Yu, De Ragan Slayic, Agito Repca
-Fuka-Misaki, Yamata-Misaki, Twin Bearclaw
-Two-Headed Ragnus, Grand Cross, Tyrant Spadac

You may count that as 16 vs 30, but the biggest problem here is that FF has eight S grade weapons and FG has only five. That's the real problem, give FG more S weapon access =/

[Delete]

Hiroteki or something like that is the one your thinking about shots, and i clearly agree with ya. Only thing is fortegunners in particular cant even use hyper vipers or the ugly twin tornados. So overall, that be 6 for gunners. But i see that your just saying they look cool (one of em anyway) so i agree.

[chicken105]

if you guys are talking about cool looking weapons, it's just fighters we already got most of ours.
Gunner:
Killer Elite
Gur Henab
Cubo Simba
shigga pakuda
and more
Look at fighters:
Ank buti - no speical effect
Mugunburga - no special effect
De ragan slayer - no special effect
12* singe/twin saber - no special effect im pretty sure.

only striking I know with a nice effect that are 12*:
Ragan-ragan
12* single/twin dagger

It's just gunners really haven't gotten theirs.

[HELLBOT]

sega has been unfair to the gunners by making all of their 12* wepons special event or someother bullshit while the psycho wand and agito repca are obtainiable (though very rarelie) and even so with hundreds of people trying to find them to score an easy fortune at least two are founda week while for a love inferno about 3-10 ar found a YEAR BUT the gunners do have alot of power get level 40 bullets and a 3/10 rattle snake and you can hit over 2K a shot and you shoot pretty fast ranking up to 1,000 in about 4 seconds

[chicken105]

yea cause you know the 1st OFFICIAL 12* means ALL 12* gunner weapons HELLBOT. Let alone, only being 1 released. At least you guys got something official. :/

[HELLBOT]

i ment all current avalible 12* if you havn't noticed we cannot get the hanab or pakuda OR the killer elite if you failed to realize this you need to jump off the bridge lol the psycho wand is an official commeration to the death of PSO so is the agito they did not realease when PSO died BUT they are based off wepons from PSO were did the love inferno come from??? a joke thats were it came from

[desturel]

Desturel you are putting alot of thought into this.....

The kubara weps look exactly the same as their counterpart!! My argument was looks.

Obviously I am at a disadvantage as I read everything you are saying, but you have not read a single thing that I had said.

You don't even take the time to count all of the fortegunner weapons that I have already listed for you. You say gunners have:

"gunner- 8, and i even included the ugly twin tornado."

Even if you don't include Viper, Hyper Viper, Storm and Twin Tornado you have:
Shigga Desta
Shigga Baret
Spread Needle /G
Blackbull
Rattlesnake
Mizurakihoh
Gur Bazga
Gur Asted
Song for Death
Robopitch Grenade/C
Meteor Cannon
Needle Cannon
Ryusaikanoh

That's 13 without counting any Guntecher weapons such as crossbows, machineguns, longbows, and RCSM.

Maybe the problem isn't that gunners don't have enough weapons, it's that they ignore more than half of their weapons. You discredit Storm and Viper because they are crap, yet count Halarod? Hate to break this too you, but Halarod is garbage by your standards.


I didnt even read the whole thing. :lol:

I already knew this from your very first response. You have not completely read a single post that I have made. That's okay because others have.

You discredit weapons because "they suck" or "they don't look cool", but you count all of the techer and fighter weapons without exception. Being selective does not mean that the weapons do not exist. Should I pretend Bil De Axe doesn't exist because it looks silly?


These are a gunners usual weapons from the many gunners I see online.

Even with the list you provide, that's 9 S-ranks while ignoring common S-ranks Meteor Cannon and Gur Bazga, which is still more than shotsfired is giving fortegunners credit for.

Seems to me that you aren't even aware of what weapons they already have. Maybe that's why you believe you are being persecuted by Sonic team unfairly.

[desturel]

You may count that as 16 vs 30, but the biggest problem here is that FF has eight S grade weapons and FG has only five. That's the real problem, give FG more S weapon access =/

What do you add to Fortegunner without stepping on Guntecher's toes? It's not like Guntecher didn't have all but one of their exclusives ganked by Fighgunner.

[ForeverStronger]

You know what? If they don't release a Hello Kitty wand by the end of next month. I am quitting this game because ugh... I swear... *stamps foot* These other wands are so ugly and weak.

[chicken105]

i ment all current avalible 12* if you havn't noticed we cannot get the hanab or pakuda OR the killer elite if you failed to realize this you need to jump off the bridge lol the psycho wand is an official commeration to the death of PSO so is the agito they did not realease when PSO died BUT they are based off wepons from PSO were did the love inferno come from??? a joke thats were it came from

So wait... Now you are mad because you don't have a PSO weapon like techers and fighters? um Other than the heart design, Love inferno was somewhat based on:
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=329&sortby=name
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=456&sortby=name
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=555&sortby=name
I'm pretty sure Gur asted a PSO weapon to. Just with a different shot though!

[Hrith]

What do you add to Fortegunner without stepping on Guntecher's toes? It's not like Guntecher didn't have all but one of their exclusives ganked by Fighgunner.And how many exclusive S weapons did FG lose to PT, again?
And FF to PT/WT? FI to FF?

When master classes come out, GT crossbow will be the only exclusive gun in the entire game.

No class has A wands, anymore = utter bullshit.

PT has 10 S weapons, FF and FI have 8, GT and AT have 7, AF has 6 (including an exclusive). Several of those are absolutely not justified (FF twin sabers, GT wand, AT single dagger/saber/handgun, all of PT's).
Even WT went from 2 to 5 S weapons.

Fortegunner has the same 5 it has had since 2006.
Giving S crossbows to FG is only fair. Don't even try to mention another class's "toes", again.

[Golto]

I think the JPNs just made an error giving FiGs those 2 srank guns and meant to give them to Fortegunners. But they don't want to admit their mistake and fix it. :P

[desturel]

Fortegunner has the same 5 it has had since 2006.

Fortetecher has had the same 4 since 2006
Rod - Card - Longbow - Wand

You get no sympathy from the fortetecher main.

I don't see how giving Fortegunner crossbow would be fair.

Fortegunners have 5 S rank guns:
Rifles, Shotguns, Grenades, Laser cannons, Handgun

and 3 A rank:
Twin handguns, Machineguns, Crossbows

Guntecher has 5 S rank guns:
Longbow, Twin handguns, Handgun, Crossbows, Machineguns

4 A rank:
Rifles, Shotguns, Laser cannons, Cards

Protranser has 5 S rank guns:
Shotguns, Longbows, Grenades, Laser cannons, Handguns

Seems even to me.

Fortegunners have exclusive rifle until gunmaster comes out. Fortetechers lose their exlcusive Rods as well so again, no sympathy from a Fortetecher main to the plight of the gunner main.

Fighgunner has more claim to crossbow than Fortegunner (mobile weapons and all), but giving them crossbow in addition to the other items they have gained would be too much. If they had given them crossbow instead of machinegun I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

And since we are talking about things we think would be fair, I would rather see Cards instead of longbow on guntecher. Give fortetechers level 40 bullets, it's not going to unbalance bows or cards in their favor (Acrofighter will still be stronger with cards. Protranser would still be stronger with the longbow. Guntechers will continue to use rifles.)

[SStrikerR]

We don't even have Ramar representation in MAG, that ticked me off.
Bernie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ASH

But there were no Hucaseals, Racaseals, Ramarls, Fomarls, Racasts, or Fonewms (unless you cound GFB) either.

[panzer_unit]

PT has 10 S weapons, FF and FI have 8, GT and AT have 7, AF has 6 (including an exclusive). Several of those are absolutely not justified (FF twin sabers, GT wand, AT single dagger/saber/handgun, all of PT's).

I'd rather PT had fair ATP and ATA (nothing special, just equal to Fighgunner) and A-rank weapons. Instead those stat points come from equipment and we're left to maintain the same equipment collection as Fortefighter and Fortegunner together.

Fortefighter needed S-rank twin sabers. Knuckles and Twin Claws have a lot of element and race restrictions, they need a fast high-end weapon with full element capability.

[Delete]

quote=desturel;2108381]

Maybe the problem isn't that gunners don't have enough weapons, it's that they ignore more than half of their weapons. You discredit Storm and Viper because they are crap, yet count Halarod? Hate to break this too you, but Halarod is garbage by your standards.

How the eff are you comparing vipers and storms to halarods. Im saying that single pistols altogether suck as most would agree. So are you suggesting all rods like the psycho wand suck too? Read before you post because this is what happens when you dont.

I already knew this from your very first response. You have not completely read a single post that I have made. That's okay because others have.

Ive read your short posts, but im not gonna waste 10 minutes reading your overly long post that just says the same thing over and over

You discredit weapons because "they suck" or "they don't look cool", but you count all of the techer and fighter weapons without exception. Being selective does not mean that the weapons do not exist. Should I pretend Bil De Axe doesn't exist because it looks silly?


Once again since youve never been introduced to the word "READING", i didnt say all techer weapons were cool. Where your getting this i will never know. And bil de axe's are kick azz weapons.

Even with the list you provide, that's 9 S-ranks while ignoring common S-ranks Meteor Cannon and Gur Bazga, which is still more than shotsfired is giving fortegunners credit for.

And tell me how many gunners use meteor cannons and bazgas. Only ones who cant afford needle cannons and degahna cannons etc. Mainly, the newer players. Thats not how i posted that statement. I said, here are a gunners usual weapons once they can afford it. Do me a favor, buy a dictionary from ebay, should be like 2 bucks, if you can afford it, and look up any words here that may be confusing.

Seems to me that you aren't even aware of what weapons they already have. Maybe that's why you believe you are being persecuted by Sonic team unfairly.[/quote]

Lastly, i am aware of the weapons and i never said St are doing a bad job or nothing.
Thanks everyone who agrees with me, im proud to know someones on my side.

[Delete]

Darn, i screwed up that top post ^. I forgot to do muti-quote. Well im pretty sure you can all understand it, because i have to go to work =)

[HELLBOT]

So wait... Now you are mad because you don't have a PSO weapon like techers and fighters? um Other than the heart design, Love inferno was somewhat based on:
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=329&sortby=name
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=456&sortby=name
http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=555&sortby=name
I'm pretty sure Gur asted a PSO weapon to. Just with a different shot though!

NONE of those look anything remotley like the love inferno 1. love inferno's pink 2. it's not soo cubicle it's more rounded 4. it not that long 5. it was actually made for a joke

[desturel]

How the eff are you comparing vipers and storms to halarods. Im saying that single pistols altogether suck as most would agree.

To answer your own question, I quote you from further down in your post:


And tell me how many gunners use meteor cannons and bazgas. Only ones who cant afford needle cannons and degahna cannons etc. Mainly, the newer players.

and how many techers use Halarod as their main rod? The ones that don't have Psycho Wands and Gaozoran Rod (and Kazarod).

BTW, have you forgotten that Halarod is race restricted, so a number of non-Neuman foretechers are still restricted to Howrods, Halarodocs and Kazarodocs until they can find a substitute.

I also find it amusing that someone who can't, by their own admittance, read a multi-paragraph post is advising me to buy a dictionary.


Once again since youve never been introduced to the word "READING", i didnt say all techer weapons were cool. Where your getting this i will never know. And bil de axe's are kick azz weapons.

Source (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2107902&postcount=61)


Originally Posted by shotsfired
the faster you all realize it is not about the weapons strength, ACC, etc., but about the LOOKS of a weapon, all your arguements will stop. I know 10/10 9* are stronger then 10* weps, but they dont LOOK as cool. That is why we want more 10* + gunner weps..... we want cooler looking weps!!

If you want to argue the fact that techers and fighters do not have cooler looking weps than gunners, that my friends is complete B.S.

so, to summarize....

we as gunners want cool looking weps, because techers and fighters have alot more the choose from.
This pretty much sums up another point right here.

Did you read what you responded to or did I misread your intentions when you said you agreed with shotsfired ad-hoc? Are techer weapons cooler than gunner weapons? Do you not want cooler looking gunner weapons?

According to your post here, gunners only use meteor cannon until they can afford a needle cannon, but techers stick with using Halarod because of the (quoting shotsfired (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108139&postcount=64)) "halo-like circles and the wing like look".

Also Halarod stays fresh every time you use it. Unlike, say, a rattlesnake? (to quote you (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2107917&postcount=63)) "Thing is, rifles are usually what we use most, so the rattlesnake starts to look a little uncool(only word i could think of at the moment, i know, wow is he dumb). Ive had more fun using phantoms just because at least the bullets have different colors. So there."

So the quality of the rifle isn't as important as the firing animation?

I could keep going with your contradictions in this very thread, but I know my long posts start to hurt your eyes, so I'll stop here. Of course it may already be too late.

[lanvandam]

what gunners own now since the update well if oyur bullets are high i can do 1.3k wit shifta wit my rifle and 2k sometimes wit critical hits wit the rifle.

my lazer just got 31 and it has 200% att so i do 1k wit the lazer using a bad lazer (the dragon one)

the shotgun does 800 to 900 when the right element is used

so just level your bullets and enjoy

[chicken105]

HELLBOT, are you illiterate? Did you not see what I said in the post? That it is KINDA based off of that. It looks SOMEWHAT like it without the HEART DESIGN. It's cubical because LOTS of thing's changed! THAT WAS FROM DREAM CAST! This is a NEW GAME. That isn't 10 years old.
EDIT: in conclusion, if you guys think it'll be hard to get them next year. There's something called Fires of Illusion with 500% increase drop rate.

[MysticGoten]

Just max your bullets and use the right element and you will probably have the best quick hitting damage out of all your friends.

Plus, the rifle knockdown is always appreciated by others.

[chicken105]

Rifle knock down FTW :D

[autumn]

Techers have a good selection of weapons?!
Could have fooled me.
And a bunch of them look stupid:
Dori
Pushan
Uransara
Anything beneath S rank in wands or rods
In particular Chao Staff (regardless of power STUPID LOOKING)

This will improve when granarods and okarods finally make it here along with delpis. But for the time being techer weapons suck. You want a good looking rod? Spend the hours and hours and hours hunting for a psycho wand. And hope you didn't get the mats only for the 99% chance to fail.

[Luraph]

Yeah. Yeah. Stupid PSU and stupid Sega. Why don't they give us all 12* weapons at 10/10 grinds. It's so unfair. It's not asking for much. *yawn*



:confused: :whip:

[HELLBOT]

HELLBOT, are you illiterate? Did you not see what I said in the post? That it is KINDA based off of that. It looks SOMEWHAT like it without the HEART DESIGN. It's cubical because LOTS of thing's changed! THAT WAS FROM DREAM CAST! This is a NEW GAME. That isn't 10 years old.
EDIT: in conclusion, if you guys think it'll be hard to get them next year. There's something called Fires of Illusion with 500% increase drop rate.

fires of illusion??? is that guardian illusion mission??? and i have quite a good vocabulary and grammer despite being german i'm just saying even with graphic updates and all the fun stuff that looks absolutley NOTHING like the love inferno

and the DREAM CAST was full of awsome games before it's time and had plenty with spherical bases

[chicken105]

fires of illusion.. caves version. Like forest of illusion. 125+ Jaggos and bil de vears.

[MysticGoten]

Techers have a good selection of weapons?!
Could have fooled me.
And a bunch of them look stupid:
Dori
Pushan
Uransara
Anything beneath S rank in wands or rods
In particular Chao Staff (regardless of power STUPID LOOKING)

This will improve when granarods and okarods finally make it here along with delpis. But for the time being techer weapons suck. You want a good looking rod? Spend the hours and hours and hours hunting for a psycho wand. And hope you didn't get the mats only for the 99% chance to fail.

Pushans are awesome, shame on you!!!!

[Hrith]

Fortetecher has had the same 4 since 2006I'm aware, but what else could FT use?
All the staple FT weapons are already at S grade.

Spear and crossbow are staple Fortegunner weapons.

[Delete]

Here we go again desturel, i was in a hurry because i have a job to go to, something you probably never heard of, so i didnt have time to make a perfect essay like you keep doing every 5 minutes. Just face the facts. My main reason for this thread was to say gunners 12 star weapons are either seasonal or they are just plain hard to get. I mean who didnt think we would get sange with as many people who were playing. You can find agito repcas and psycho wands but not love infernos or spread needles. Thats my main point. Theres no denying that. As for the other stuff about cool weapons and such, that was just water under the bridge to help the boat get by ( i have know ideal what kind of metaphor that is, sounded lame though lol). Basically, theres really no more need for you to comment so please stop unless you have something you can say without being a jerk. We are both adults, i assume anyway, so lets handle this as so. Afterall, its a game.

[Delete]

fires of illusion.. caves version. Like forest of illusion. 125+ Jaggos and bil de vears.


Thats cool and all, but we still have to wait a year for the love infernos to even drop again.

[Complex_Jao]

In particular Chao Staff (regardless of power STUPID LOOKING)


CHAOS ARE NOT STUPID

[Andy1423]

Here we go again desturel, i was in a hurry because i have a job to go to, something you probably never heard of, so i didnt have time to make a perfect essay like you keep doing every 5 minutes. Just face the facts. My main reason for this thread was to say gunners 12 star weapons are either seasonal or they are just plain hard to get. I mean who didnt think we would get sange with as many people who were playing. You can find agito repcas and psycho wands but not love infernos or spread needles. Thats my main point. Theres no denying that. As for the other stuff about cool weapons and such, that was just water under the bridge to help the boat get by ( i have know ideal what kind of metaphor that is, sounded lame though lol). Basically, theres really no more need for you to comment so please stop unless you have something you can say without being a jerk. We are both adults, i assume anyway, so lets handle this as so. Afterall, its a game.

I totally agree.

It seems every time someone mentions how this game lacks importiant features (cause who are you kidding, this game lacks alot) a child has to completly take it the wrong way and waste engergy tunring yet another thread into WAAAAWWHH :(

Serioulsly.

If anyone hear thinks we have tons of content in this game, then you are probably simple.

Lets not kid ourselves, 90% of Kubara weapons are utter JUNK. No point in even considering the synth. And that goes for 30% of all weapons. Soda Riban boards are dropping like crazy, and out damage an S rank sword when grinded well. Does this make sense? NO. But neither does half of the things that Sega comes up with.

I'll say it agian. This game has the most potential of any hack n' slash RPG I've ever played. But the rate at which we recieve content is horrible.

It's been 2 years, almost three, and we still dont have all the weapons from the first series. Thats BS.

I believe the gentlemen who started this post was hinting at this. Yes, 12* star guns are barely exsitant. WHO is to actually contend this? NO ONE. It's FACT... Other classes have slightly more options than ranged, but that still SUCKS. WE KNOW. EVERYONE KNOWs.

In a perfect world, Sega would pull their head out of their @ss's, and release way more content for ALL. If they don't show more respect to their US/EU consumers then they'll likely lose them to games like TOO HUman or others.

[desturel]

It seems every time someone mentions how this game lacks importiant features (cause who are you kidding, this game lacks alot) a child has to completly take it the wrong way and waste engergy tunring yet another thread into WAAAAWWHH :(

He's not saying there isn't enough content in the game, he's saying "Sonic Team ignores gunners in favor of other classes."

The statement stems from:

Fortefighters have Agito Repca
Techers have Psycho Wand
Gunners had a limited time to get Love Inferno

Now I'll try to make this thread review/summary as short as possible (Sorry, part of my real life job is to create and review technical documents so I get overly detailed at times).

1) Gunner states that they get shafted because they can't hunt 12* weapons all year around.

2) I state that gunner weapons are not as important as bullet levels and that gunners have overall the safest (not strongest or fastest, safest) gameplay experience. I also stated that I had enough experience with gunner to be pretty sure about this fact.

3) Was told I did not know what I was talking about and that gunners have the least amount of cool stuff in the game (looks, power, etc).

4) I point out that even with Psycho Wand and Pushan, gunners still have more weapons than techers. Also hunter have the hardest time to get an optimal weapon (10% 3/3 is not an optimal weapon). Gunner weapons are one and done (same with techer weapons) and they have more weapons than techers to choose from.

5) Again I am told that I do not know what I am talking about so I make a specific list of S ranks, gunner vs techer. Then I trim the list down 5 different times to only "essential" items and gunner still has more items than techer. I also point out that Love Inferno isn't really as big of a deal as others feel it is. Needle Cannon is a good substitute unless you have a Inferno with more than 7 grinds. On the other hand there is no good substitute for a Psycho Wand or Agito Replica.

Honestly I thought about making a point that even if gunners had Love Inferno, they would still bitch that it wasn't a God weapon like PW and AR+10, but decided to leave that out until now.

So there is the shortest version of this thread I could come up with. It cuts out a lot, but I know that people don't like to read a lot.

Sorry, but there is more. However this is all directed at Andy, so further reading is optional.


Soda Riban boards are dropping like crazy, and out damage an S rank sword when grinded well. Does this make sense? NO. But neither does half of the things that Sega comes up with.

Again with the Soda Riban comment. Why go back to a 9* weapon when you are arguing about the lack of availability of S rank weapons? Also talking about how powerful Riban is compared to Kan Yu, Svaltus Sword, Huge Cutter and Slayic, I submit to you:

Arb Boa
B'duki Boa
B'duki Maganac

It's not like overpowered Tenora weapons are exclusive to melee classes. That's not even counting Twin Ruby Bullet (which is stronger than Arb Boa with more PP).

Which do you see more of on servers:

Twin Ruby Bullet +10
Arb Boa +10
B'duki Boa +10
B'duki Maganac +10

or

50% (any element) Soda Riban +10

You would think with the Riban boards dropping like crazy everyone would have a 50% 10 ground Riban by now, but that's not the case. For fighters boards do not = good weapon.

You care so much about Riban, but are you hurting for Arb Boa? Do you not have enough 9* weapons? What would you do if Arb Boa boards dropped with the same frequency as Riban boards? It's not like you have to worry about a 10% coming out. Look a Gur Bazga and Meteor Cannon. Those flood the market and people didn't want them after a while. Lets not even mention the fate of Gur Missal and Thunder Cannon. Now you are jealous over a 9* longsword? It makes no sense to contradict yourself like that.

I know I'm getting long winded at this point and you are losing interest, but I have one more point.


I believe the gentlemen who started this post was hinting at this. Yes, 12* star guns are barely exsitant.

There are 11 12* weapons released at this point. One is a gunner weapon, the "barely existent" Love Inferno. One techer weapon the Psycho Wand. Nine hunter weapons, Agito Repca, Gudda Iggac, Mugunburgac, Ank Butic, Ohga-Misakic, Tamagiri-zashi, De Ragan Slayic, Tyrant Spadac, and Apocalypsic.

The only official 12* weapon that has been released was Love Inferno (as mentioned before in the thread). No other "official" 12* has been released. PW and AR are Kubara replicas. You can also obtain 8 kubara copies which are barely stronger than the official 11* weapons from Her Secret Mission, Bruce's Dungeon, and Egg Theives. Of those eight only three are actually worth seriously hunting.

Gudda Iggac is good because it does not have race restriction of Gudda Hon
Mugunburgac because it does not have the elemental restriction of Muktengek
De Ragan Slayic because there is no gender restriction like Kan Yu and synth materials are easier to obtain than Agito Repca

Ohga-Misakic is weaker than Giza-misaki and much weaker than Zaks Gabot
Tamagiri-zashi takes 10 grinds to match the power of a Togeha-zashi
Ank Butic is a joke like all kubara versions of Tenora axes.
There is no real draw back other than stylistic to chose Tyrant Spadac or Apocalypsic over Grand Cross and Blackheart.


In a perfect world, Sega would pull their head out of their @ss's, and release way more content for ALL.

Which should have been the point of this thread, but it was not. It was "gunners are getting the shaft and everyone else reaps the benefits."

[Delete]

Fortefighters have Agito Repca
Techers have Psycho Wand
Gunners had a limited time to get Love Inferno
."

All i needed to read, thats the main thing. Nothing else really mattered. This is what im trying to get through your head. I already said the cool looking weapon stuff didnt really go with this. No need to keep writing so much man, i mean that in a nice way. You can get your point across with one paragraph instead of 20.

I have a feeling this is going to go on and on....

[Delete]

And to andy1423, i thank you for agreeing. Ya know, i never like to start arguments, but theres always people who have to come in and say "stop complaining,b1tching,etc." And it pisses me off. If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say it. Easy and simple.

[Golto]

The sad thing is that the Love Inferno isn't even a special weapon board like [B] Agito Repica or [B] Psycho Wand. Its a [b]normal 12* grm board. Honestly I can't think of a special 12* ranged weapon board out there. We all know there won't be 13*, 14*, & 15* versions of the major ranged weapons unlike a lot of melee weapons will have.

[Hrith]

Kohibumiteri is a special ranged weapon with a board, although not a Fortegunner one.

It's true that all those Tormad, Berilad, Saffiad have very little use...

[Golto]

Kohibumiteri is 10* and not 12*. I have not seen any data whatsever for a 13* or higher laser cannon with original graphics in AOI. So the Love Inferno could very well be the best laser cannon in AOI.

[Tiyr]

Kohibumiteri is 10* and not 12*. I have not seen any data whatsever for a 13* or higher laser cannon with original graphics in AOI. So the Love Inferno could very well be the best laser cannon in AOI.

I'm not arguing against a dearth of weapon drops, but I absolutely despise all this posturing about number of stars. (I don't mean to single you out, this is an irritation I have with this conversation in general)

Look, number of stars means NOTHING besides rank, and rank ONLY matters as it regards grinders and type usage. That's it.

Why do I say this? Because we have extremely powerful uniques that are "only" A-rank (twin rubies, etc) and some weapons that are "only" ten stars that are far better than anything else available (Halp Serafi, et al). Not to mention some higher-star ranking weapons are awful (like Kazarodoc).

So please, if you want to argue about a lack of variety, or anything like that, go ahead, but let's not get into e-peen crap about star rankings. If gunners had two 11* weapons, and melees had one 11* and one 12*, it'd mean the same thing functionally. Are there fewer drops for gunners to hunt, all rarity aside? If the answer is yes--and I believe it is, as has been displayed--then that's the problem. Is there no equivalent "rare area" drop, like Psycho Wand and Agito Repca? Sure.

Bear in mind, though, that there are more than three classes in this game. FiGs have a ton of ten-star drops, so we can ignore them, but GTs and WTs suffer from the same lack of super rares, by and large. Fortegunners aren't exactly alone in their lack of drops, but given the number of event and seasonal drops they've gotten (umbrellas, love inferno, song for death), combined with the fact that with leveled PAs they're one of the more powerful classes out there, they're not really any worse off than many of the other less-represented classes.

That doesn't mean I don't think they need more stuff to look forward to finding--they do--but behind FiGs, FFs FTs and PTs, they're in a similar position to many of the other classes. Lots of them need some stuff to find. At least for those of us who play too damn much.

[Delete]

I think i agree with what your saying actually tiyr, except song for death? You hate us that much? What a cruel joke :lol: Just kidding, song for death 10/10's kick arse.

[BIGGIEstyle]

So the Love Inferno could very well be the best laser cannon in AOI.
That's a shame. I think the love inferno is one of the most heinously ugly weapons out there.

Playing as a gunner myself I agree and disagree with both sides of this argument.

1st on the matter of fighter weapons:
My fortefighter has far fewer S ranks on his palette than any of my other characters. Why? Because it's easier to have a good A rank than an S rank. My 42% Dark 7/10 Soda Riban is far better than my 20% DArk 2/10 De Ragan slayic. The riban cost me 560,000 meseta (cost of A+10 grinders) the De Ragan Slayic Cost me 2,000,000 meseta (Cost of 2 S+10 grinders)

Fighters may have more by way of weapons to choose from but it's WAY harder to get a good weapon out of it.

Next is Techers:
Do you play a character that isn't a cutesy loli or gumdrop sunshine fairy? If so you know the selection of Tech weapons SUCK.

What Autumn was saying is that while some weapons have great power to them, most are too childish looking to use.

Didja know that a 10/10 Chao is stronger than a 0/10 Psycho Wand? RIDICULOUS. There is NO reason for that.
If you can get 10 badges from MAG you have the BEST techer weapon out there unless you get lucky with grinds on a PWand.
let's see... 60 gold badges, compared to 180 Diad, 60 Relic Edges, and the hours it'd take to get the boards for 6 PWands.
Then if you go the AT route the best you have is a tesbra and a pushan. If you don't like goofy looking little things floating around you you're pretty much SOL. I think tesbras are great personally but techers get a huge shaft when it comes to good/good looking weapons.

The finally the Gunners:
Crossbows have no meaning to anyone other than a figunner or guntecher. Fortegunner gets S rank Shotguns so if you're wasting time with a crossbow (for anything other than personal preference of course) it's a waste of time. The only reason for Crossbows is for a multi-hit weapon that a GT can use a wand with or a FiG can use a 1h striking weapon with.

Twin Handguns... the bane of my existence. I think twin tornadoes are the ugliest weapons in their type. I'd rather use a pair of Arb Boas than even HAVE an S rank if the tornadoes are the only choice. I think by way of appearance the hyper vipers are the best choice, and by power the Twin Ruby Bullet beats both of them. Once the Battlestoppers come out this will fix both problems.

Rifles... Mizurakihoh has best PP and lowest ATP (duh, it's a yohmei rifle) which makes it excellent for leveling killer shot. Blackbull get lame watching the same animation over and over again, but so does the Rattlesnake. Either way, EVERY FG palette I see (again if they have the time/money for it) is a Rattlesnake or mizurakihoh for KS. The Kubara versions of all of there have worse PP, ATP, AND ATA and as such are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.

Grenades... The song for death beats everything but the Gur Asted but is annoying as all hell. I had a Bagza instead because I couldn't stand listening to the SFD. Gur Asted is a great weapon and there should be no complaints over it.

Shotguns... Desta and Baret. Both are easy to obtain from annoying missions. I've yet to FIND my Baret but I've gotten 4 Rattlesnakes looking for it so... anyhow a shotgun's power is in it's bullet lvl. If the 12 ATP you'll get from upgrading makes SO MUCH difference then go for it.

Finally Laser Cannons.... The crackerjack Thunder, Meteor, Ryusaikanohs are all weak and not too appealing- with the exception of the amazing graphic for the Ryusaikanoh. If you use a laser and want to be a "good" gunner you'll need a Needle Cannon, Degahnna Cannon, or a Love Inferno. Needle Cannons and Degahnna cannons drop from the same mission I believe, and being a dull mission not too many people run it. As everyone stated: Good Luck on finding a Love Inferno. Frankly I'm not a big enough fan of lasers to spend the time finding any of them. but I agree that they take FOREVER to find.

So wrapping this longwinded post up, again:

Fighters get TONS of stuff because if it comes out below 30% and doesn't grind to 5+/10 it's garbage.
Techers get strong weapons (in A rank) but if you want something that isn't cutesy you're out of luck.
Gunners get plenty of underused and overlooked weapons, but most don't use them or overlook them.

I like being a gunner with hard to find stuff because it makes you feel better for what you've accomplished with your character. I remember when having a Two-Headed Ragnus was something to be recognized. I miss not having anything noteworthy to look for an a character anymore, so while everyone complains that "we get the shaft", I say "SHAFT THEM HARDER" because good things shouldn't just be GIVEN AWAY.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

The Kubara versions of all of there have worse PP, ATP, AND ATA and as such are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.


Grinders are your friend.

[BIGGIEstyle]

Grinders are your friend.
They sure are. When the best my PM has produced were S+5s and S+10 are selling for 2-3 mil now though? I guess I'm the odd one out here though, never seeing a 10/10 S rank, hell, not even seeing a 6/10 S Rank.

My best grinded S Rank is my 5/10 Shigga Desta....

[chicken105]

Thats cool and all, but we still have to wait a year for the love infernos to even drop again.
yea. But if you think about it, it's just like waiting for the kohibumiteri, halp serafi, daggers of serafi that were actually rare last year. :/

[HELLBOT]

yea. But if you think about it, it's just like waiting for the kohibumiteri, halp serafi, daggers of serafi that were actually rare last year. :/

but the drop rate is high and you cannot fail the board of halp serafi's

[desturel]

All i needed to read, thats the main thing. Nothing else really mattered.

I already stated I read and understood all of your posts. You chose not to believe me (or should I say, chose to throw around random insults). It would be nice if you understood anything I am saying however. Fortegunners have a wide variety of cheap S-rank weapons and they choose not to use them. Fortetechers have a small variety of S-rank weapons. Fortefighters have a wide variety of expensive S-rank weapons, a wide variety of garbage S-rank weapons, and a wide variety of expensive garbage.

Having 100 pennies and two quarters does not make you richer than a person with 6 quarters. You both have the same amount of money.


Kubara versions of all of there have worse PP, ATP, AND ATA and as such are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.

Blackbullic and Rattlesnac, as I'm sure you are aware, grind pretty well and since when was fortegunner worried about ATA?


but the drop rate is high and you cannot fail the board of halp serafi's

Caves of Illusion? I believe the drop rate of any Jaggo rare won't mean anything next year. The same way the drop rate of Rappy rares doesn't mean much of anything this year.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

They sure are. When the best my PM has produced were S+5s and S+10 are selling for 2-3 mil now though? I guess I'm the odd one out here though, never seeing a 10/10 S rank, hell, not even seeing a 6/10 S Rank.

My best grinded S Rank is my 5/10 Shigga Desta....

+5 is enough for kubara version of Rattlesnake...
I just ground 4 Hanabis and 3 Pakudecs to +10, 2 Battlestoppers without grind bonus.
You have a +10% synth boost coming soon, right? What's stopping you?

[Rusty.]

Gunners get also get screwed on pas. Half our element bullets are 5% weaker ;/

[Delete]

Having 100 pennies and two quarters does not make you richer than a person with 6 quarters. You both have the same amount of money.





Wtf does this have to do with anything?

[Andy1423]

I dont usually make 2 topics at a time, but well... something came across my head. Why is it that fortegunners always get screwed. What i mean is, how come the weapons such as LOve inferno,spread needle, and even the crappy robo pitch grenade (not really the last one) are impossible to get for many players while weapons like agito repcas and psycho wands are not. Im not complaining in any way saying that because i work i dont have time to get a spread needle, what im saying is the truth. What 12star weapon do gunners have to look for? Nothing. Only the same darn rattlesnake,asted,baret, and needle cannon. I can go and buy an decent repca for 50mil, same for pwand. Love inferno? There is none. Spread needle? Nope. Crappy robo pitch? No, youd better save coins for 100 days like i did because theres no buying these. What makes it all the more worse is the fact its probably gonna be this way for a long time.

Let me change just the fact that we aren't getting screwed, but just overlooked. Since one person in partcular is on my butt on this thing posting essays and stuff.

LETS BRING IT BACK...

He's saying that Gunner 12* stars are impossible to get.

HOW CAN ANY ONE ARGUEE THAT!!! IT IS FACT. Even if you look at JP's schedual They've had tons of 12* weapons in missions where only 11* star guns DROP!!!

Are rangers being overlooked in terms of dropable 12* weapons? YES

It is only fair that each main type of weapon category should have an ultimate weapon to search for that's non-event, right? That would be even steven.

P WAND

AGITO

(GUN) >>>>>> wheres this little guy at?

I belive in all fairness you can say that gunners, in terms of huntable items, are a little bit over looked.

Now, they did make the utimate goal for the kill count a Spreed Needle/G. Which is awesome, don't get me wrong. But it's pretty frickin hard to get, and an event only item at that!

In contrast, the Pushan is a slick 99 gold badges, that goes for an easy 4 mil in player shops. WHat a deal.

I could make a crazy long to post, but I'll save the eyes of my peers for now.

Remember, it's best to keep an open mind when discussing topics about a game that clearly lacks balance in multiple areas. There are many issues to bring up, but only few relate to the topic at hand.

[chicken105]

but the drop rate is high and you cannot fail the board of halp serafi's
ok, but it's not like you need to spend alot of $$ on materials anyway. (goldania)
drop rate was high on a normal mission..... It will be more than reasonable in the increase. Say people run white beast to get Jaggos. Well, as a bonus they can get FOI and have a much bigger chance of getting one anyway. That's just not you. That's the rest of the server :/ because we all know 90% of the population does white beast.

[Delete]

I guarantee desturel will reply once again with some other smart statement like, " A,B,C is no different from 1,2, and 3" But, andy makes the clearest point in what i was trying to say. It wont get any easier to understand then what you see above. So please read desturel, before you start insulting me again.

That be above x2, chicken105 must be a quick typer, lol

[Chibi_psu]

the next new s rank should be the 12* bow and the 12* kubara card ... if we get neudaiz grb anytime of course....

[Delete]

Probably 2 years away chibi, lol. And thats if were lucky.

[desturel]

I guarantee desturel will reply once again with some other smart statement like, " A,B,C is no different from 1,2, and 3"

Wasn't going to bother, but since you have requested. Let's review the insults shall we (long post ahoy!):

My insults:
#1 Oh noes! Fortegunners with their infinite stamina, easiest to obtain S-rank armor, every status affect at their disposal besides stun, and ability to solo any mission without getting hit, are bitching again about how they are being shafted by Sonic Team.

Just keep on bitching and ignoring the good weapons you already have and I'll keep on making a profit off of the stuff you are too lazy to hunt for. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105811&postcount=11)

Not really directed at anyone. Just in general.

#2 Beast does not equal fighter. Once you get that through you head, continue to read my responses. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106137&postcount=23)

Definitely an insult directed at your assumption that I played a fortefighter main... completely ignoring that in my initial post I explained that I had leveled bullets previously. BTW, this was the point were I figured out that you don't read posts that you respond to.

#3 Since spending 8 hours of your time to get something done is too difficult for you, it now makes sense why you are whining about how "hard" it is to find anything. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106402&postcount=35)

Again a direct insult. You state that people who take the time to level up their photon arts don't have a life which is a ridiculous statement. If you truly thought that way, you would not be able to play this game at all while having a life. Having a goal in the game and obtaining that goal should not equate having no life.

#4 I already knew this from your very first response. You have not completely read a single post that I have made. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108381&postcount=71)

Not really an insult, but an observation. You may take the fact that you don't read posts as an insult however. I won't mind.

#5 I also find it amusing that someone who can't, by their own admittance, read a multi-paragraph post is advising me to buy a dictionary.

I know my long posts start to hurt your eyes, so I'll stop here. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108798&postcount=83)

Again, an observation, but feel free to consider it an insult.


Delete's insults:
#1 Sorry if your blind and cant read my first post

You keep also saying bullets lvl 31+, why dont you try lvling one up to 31, unlike fighting pas, bullets take time to level up. And you go ahead and try and get another spread, i dont care because i actually have a life,

If you have all day to play psu, then you must not have a job for one thing, no girl or no fun in your life at all. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)


#2 And this is why you clearly have no life (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106235&postcount=28)

#3 You like turning things around, but whatever. I dont have to sink in to your level and keep arguing with ya. Im way more mature then that. So you go ahead and have no life. (so much for being mature) (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2107023&postcount=37)

Per insult 1, 2, and 3, since you are so interested in my personal life I will let you know that I do have a job. 10~12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week depending on workload. I write, read, and review technical documentation as well as administer UNIX, Linux, and Windows servers. System's administrator or nerd if you care to put it that way.

I assure you that my lack of a life has nothing to do with PSU. It is completely work related.

#4 Do me a favor, buy a dictionary from ebay, should be like 2 bucks, if you can afford it, and look up any words here that may be confusing. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108707&postcount=80)

Don't worry. You never use big words so I have no problem understanding every post that you have made. :)

#5 i was in a hurry because i have a job to go to, something you probably never heard of (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109349&postcount=94)

Back to the no job/no life argument. You also reuse the same insults quite frequently. You might want to diversify a bit.

i hate when people say im complaining everytime i make a new thread. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)

Maybe you should take a hint if multiple people see your posts as complaining? There is likely some basis for the accusation.

Why cant you just be like the other people who posted here with nice comments. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)
If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say it. Easy and simple. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109622&postcount=100)

I am not allowed to disagree with you? Discussing why you disagree with someone else's ideas should not be off limits on a discussion forum. If you want to hold a pity party where every one holds hands and sings kumbaya go, to Alcoholics Anonymous and Battered Spouses. If you want people to argue a debatable point, post an opinion on a web forum. I exercised my right to disagree with you.

shotsfired insults:
fighter - 13
techer - 10
gunner- 8, and i even included the ugly twin tornado.

this is my closing statement.
Check mate... (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108139&postcount=64)

Not really an insult, but the complete omission of more than half of the non-kubara fortegunner weapons felt like an insult. Especially after I listed all of the S-ranks that fortegunners can use a few posts prior. All that needed to be done was a copy and paste.

Andy1423 insults:
It seems every time someone mentions how this game lacks importiant features (cause who are you kidding, this game lacks alot) a child has to completly take it the wrong way and waste engergy tunring yet another thread into WAAAAWWHH (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109407&postcount=97)

This one was extremely entertaining. Not only did it ignore the fact that this thread is a fortegunner bitch thread, it tried to bring other classes into the argument. Stating that everyone gets screwed was the point I was making in my first post. The post that started this whole argument. It's like he's agreeing with me, but saying I'm wrong at the same time. Complete contradiction in a few sentences. Or more likely, he did not read through the thread to come up with an informed statement and instead jumped in on the first sounding point he felt he could.

I was actually done with responding at that point, but Andy's post had far too many holes for me to poke at.

To quote amtalx "I could write a dissertation on the things wrong with that post", but I trimmed it back to acceptable levels (BTW amtalx, I still wouldn't mind viewing your dissertation). Not that you (Delete) or Andy would take the time to actually read all of a post with more than two paragraphs.

The read one sentence and respond method of posting that you both use makes for wildly entertaining assumptions. It also leads to both of you contradicting your own posts in an attempt to one up me. At least you haven't gone so far as to post completely incorrect numbers and then state "check mate!" (do you even play chess shotsfired?).

Gunners get also get screwed on pas. Half our element bullets are 5% weaker ;/ (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2110176&postcount=113)

lol, I'm 99% sure this is parody, but I like it. :D


Wtf does this have to do with anything?

It's an analogy. Getting 100 10%~38% Riban (pennies) and 2 40%+ Riban (quarters) is the same as getting 6 arb boa (quarters). Every gunner weapon that successfully makes is good. Why did you bother synthing a weapon you did not want? Trying to fail enough weapons to stock up on things like Exanite, Gachnium, Paural, etc? Amtalx and Andy both referenced how many Soda Riban boards were falling during MA:G as an example of how gunners were getting screwed and I was wondering what that has to do with the price of tea in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_tea_in_China).

[Uncle_bob]

Not to mention all the S-rank guns look like toys covered in lacy patterns and flowers.. :disapprove:

[BIGGIEstyle]

Amtalx and Andy both referenced how many Soda Riban boards were falling during MA:G as an example of how gunners were getting screwed and I was wondering what that has to do with the price of tea in China.
Beautifully executed ^_^

And the note about ATA on a FG, they really don't I was just making the point that unless grinded they are ll around worse.


+5 is enough for kubara version of Rattlesnake...
I just ground 4 Hanabis and 3 Pakudecs to +10, 2 Battlestoppers without grind bonus.
You have a +10% synth boost coming soon, right? What's stopping you?
We'll get back to the fact that my PM can't make S grinders to save her own life, and if I wanted to buy them they are EXTREMELY overpriced.

[Delete]

Wasn't going to bother, but since you have requested. Let's review the insults shall we (long post ahoy!):

My insults:
#1 Oh noes! Fortegunners with their infinite stamina, easiest to obtain S-rank armor, every status affect at their disposal besides stun, and ability to solo any mission without getting hit, are bitching again about how they are being shafted by Sonic Team.

Just keep on bitching and ignoring the good weapons you already have and I'll keep on making a profit off of the stuff you are too lazy to hunt for. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105811&postcount=11)

Not really directed at anyone. Just in general.

#2 Beast does not equal fighter. Once you get that through you head, continue to read my responses. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106137&postcount=23)

Definitely an insult directed at your assumption that I played a fortefighter main... completely ignoring that in my initial post I explained that I had leveled bullets previously. BTW, this was the point were I figured out that you don't read posts that you respond to.

#3 Since spending 8 hours of your time to get something done is too difficult for you, it now makes sense why you are whining about how "hard" it is to find anything. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106402&postcount=35)

Again a direct insult. You state that people who take the time to level up their photon arts don't have a life which is a ridiculous statement. If you truly thought that way, you would not be able to play this game at all while having a life. Having a goal in the game and obtaining that goal should not equate having no life.

#4 I already knew this from your very first response. You have not completely read a single post that I have made. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108381&postcount=71)

Not really an insult, but an observation. You may take the fact that you don't read posts as an insult however. I won't mind.

#5 I also find it amusing that someone who can't, by their own admittance, read a multi-paragraph post is advising me to buy a dictionary.

I know my long posts start to hurt your eyes, so I'll stop here. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108798&postcount=83)

Again, an observation, but feel free to consider it an insult.


Delete's insults:
#1 Sorry if your blind and cant read my first post

You keep also saying bullets lvl 31+, why dont you try lvling one up to 31, unlike fighting pas, bullets take time to level up. And you go ahead and try and get another spread, i dont care because i actually have a life,

If you have all day to play psu, then you must not have a job for one thing, no girl or no fun in your life at all. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)


#2 And this is why you clearly have no life (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2106235&postcount=28)

#3 You like turning things around, but whatever. I dont have to sink in to your level and keep arguing with ya. Im way more mature then that. So you go ahead and have no life. (so much for being mature) (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2107023&postcount=37)

Per insult 1, 2, and 3, since you are so interested in my personal life I will let you know that I do have a job. 10~12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week depending on workload. I write, read, and review technical documentation as well as administer UNIX, Linux, and Windows servers. System's administrator or nerd if you care to put it that way.

I assure you that my lack of a life has nothing to do with PSU. It is completely work related.

#4 Do me a favor, buy a dictionary from ebay, should be like 2 bucks, if you can afford it, and look up any words here that may be confusing. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108707&postcount=80)

Don't worry. You never use big words so I have no problem understanding every post that you have made. :)

#5 i was in a hurry because i have a job to go to, something you probably never heard of (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109349&postcount=94)

Back to the no job/no life argument. You also reuse the same insults quite frequently. You might want to diversify a bit.

i hate when people say im complaining everytime i make a new thread. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)

Maybe you should take a hint if multiple people see your posts as complaining? There is likely some basis for the accusation.

Why cant you just be like the other people who posted here with nice comments. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2105859&postcount=17)
If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say it. Easy and simple. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109622&postcount=100)

I am not allowed to disagree with you? Discussing why you disagree with someone else's ideas should not be off limits on a discussion forum. If you want to hold a pity party where every one holds hands and sings kumbaya go, to Alcoholics Anonymous and Battered Spouses. If you want people to argue a debatable point, post an opinion on a web forum. I exercised my right to disagree with you.

shotsfired insults:
fighter - 13
techer - 10
gunner- 8, and i even included the ugly twin tornado.

this is my closing statement.
Check mate... (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2108139&postcount=64)

Not really an insult, but the complete omission of more than half of the non-kubara fortegunner weapons felt like an insult. Especially after I listed all of the S-ranks that fortegunners can use a few posts prior. All that needed to be done was a copy and paste.

Andy1423 insults:
It seems every time someone mentions how this game lacks importiant features (cause who are you kidding, this game lacks alot) a child has to completly take it the wrong way and waste engergy tunring yet another thread into WAAAAWWHH (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2109407&postcount=97)

This one was extremely entertaining. Not only did it ignore the fact that this thread is a fortegunner bitch thread, it tried to bring other classes into the argument. Stating that everyone gets screwed was the point I was making in my first post. The post that started this whole argument. It's like he's agreeing with me, but saying I'm wrong at the same time. Complete contradiction in a few sentences. Or more likely, he did not read through the thread to come up with an informed statement and instead jumped in on the first sounding point he felt he could.

I was actually done with responding at that point, but Andy's post had far too many holes for me to poke at.

To quote amtalx "I could write a dissertation on the things wrong with that post", but I trimmed it back to acceptable levels (BTW amtalx, I still wouldn't mind viewing your dissertation). Not that you (Delete) or Andy would take the time to actually read all of a post with more than two paragraphs.

The read one sentence and respond method of posting that you both use makes for wildly entertaining assumptions. It also leads to both of you contradicting your own posts in an attempt to one up me. At least you haven't gone so far as to post completely incorrect numbers and then state "check mate!" (do you even play chess shotsfired?).

Gunners get also get screwed on pas. Half our element bullets are 5% weaker ;/ (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2110176&postcount=113)

lol, I'm 99% sure this is parody, but I like it. :D



It's an analogy. Getting 100 10%~38% Riban (pennies) and 2 40%+ Riban (quarters) is the same as getting 6 arb boa (quarters). Every gunner weapon that successfully makes is good. Why did you bother synthing a weapon you did not want? Trying to fail enough weapons to stock up on things like Exanite, Gachnium, Paural, etc? Amtalx and Andy both referenced how many Soda Riban boards were falling during MA:G as an example of how gunners were getting screwed and I was wondering what that has to do with the price of tea in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_tea_in_China).

LOL, dang man. This is more funny than anything. What you say we put this childish argument to rest. Now i can start my next argument.... Forgetting about fortegunners Part 2...:lol:

Whoa whoa there for a second, ya know i was gonna end it there but i see you left some more smartass remarks. So lets go through them. You have a job? Sure, thats what they all say, but your word means nothing unless you can prove it. Same here for me. You say i never use big words, well..... thats what she said... (i couldnt think of anything on that one) You said i use the same insults? Thats what she said again. On the serious side, of course i use the no job stuff alot because there are alot of people who are 18+ who play games and dont have a job. I on the other hand been working for a while saving up for a sweet looking car.But back on topic, you trying to say i am complaining. Now thats where i start to get pissed off. Who are you to say when im complaining when all im doing is pointing out something that mostly everyone else agrees with me on. Moreover, what i said was we dont have 12 stars like beast and newman have without ours being super hard or seasonal. Agito repca, psycho wand, ?????... oh yeah, there is no 12 star gun that drops regularly. Once you get that thru your microscopic brain ( may need a dictionary for that one) then you will finally leave this thread alone. Finally, yes you can disagree with something i say, but once you start with smartass remarks, then its not disagreeing, its insulting. That i have a problem with. Your acting like a baby because you keep going on and on just trying to prove your right when your clearly not. But even so, your going to say something else because you just are. Why dont you prove your mature unlike me and just stop posting. Its my thread, not yours.

Darn, now im making long posts....:sad:

[amtalx]

*diatribe*

Amtalx and Andy both referenced how many Soda Riban boards were falling during MA:G as an example of how gunners were getting screwed and I was wondering what that has to do with the price of tea in China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_tea_in_China).

When did I reference Soda Riban boards? Check your sources slick. :p

[creativehope]

this thread is made of lulz

[BIGGIEstyle]

what i said was we dont have 12 stars like beast and newman have without ours being super hard or seasonal. Agito repca, psycho wand, ?????... oh yeah, there is no 12 star gun that drops regularly.
The thread is about Fortegunners. I'm sure there are plenty of Beast and Newman ones out there too. Just refreshing ya on your thread.

Also, there's nothing adult about slinging insults back at someone. If you are so much more mature than them, just take solace in that fact and let them be "childish". After all, they're just a name on a board on a screen.

[desturel]

this thread is made of lulz

Glad I could provide you somthing entertaining to read. (I don't care if you are laughing with or at me.)


When did I reference Soda Riban boards? Check your sources slick. :p

My bad, you said "Events shit fighter weapon boards like its the end of days."

I did jump to a conclusion. You could have been talking about Crimson and Ank Dedda. (well this particular event drops Fighgunner alot. Double Agito and Carriguine Rucar)

[Andy1423]

Agreed, MAG is pretty much tailored to FighGunners.
------------------------------

Oh, and by the way desturel, the only reason why I mentioned Soda Riban boards is to comment on the ideology that a 9* star weapon should never out damage a 10* + weapon, and that Sega is all @ss backwards about things like that in this game. I'm sorry that you didn't get that, maybe I didn't explain well in words. (seriously, I'm not being facetious)

In relation to all things that make sense and not, it is my belief that Sega seriously needs to adjust the way weapons are found/dropped.

I.E. MAG drop Soda Riban [B]’s, and Crimson [B] , but they drop at an astronomical rate. It’s to the point of flooding the market with them. (there’s plenty of other examples)

Any time this happens with an item of value, it losses value. Thus any decent ranged weapon (usually ForteGunner weapons) with a high damage value, that only drops in few mission’s is crazy expensive. I mean, I just check the price value of an 8/10, 9/10, and 10/10 Rattelsnake and their all over 190mil!!! I guarantee if there was a better 12* Rifle that actually was dropping, then the value of Rattelsnakes would lower.

Anyways, my point is that items need a re-hauling in the way the game chooses to drop them. I think if there were more area drops it would alleviate both the economic stress and the accessibility of a variety of weapons.

P.S. Happy be-lated birthday Biggie

[Adriano]

Zomg giresta part.2.

[Tiyr]

Bringing up Agito Repca and Psycho Wand don't really help the argument too terribly much, since they only cover FF, PT and FT. Lots of classes don't have 12 star weapons. Personally, I'd like to see more global area-based rares in general, for every class.

And since the point's gone un-addressed by half the people in this thread despite being brought up my multiple people, I'll reiterate:

Melee boards SHOULD drop more than gunner boards, because it's a) harder to make a usable melee weapon and b) since they're set element, you need more of them. You might have to pay through the nose for a decent rattlesnake, but you only ever need one of the things. I don't see how this is difficult to understand, unless you haven't played a melee class or were just lazy about getting decent weapons.

[Tiyr]

I.E. MAG drop Soda Riban [B]’s, and Crimson [B] , but they drop at an astronomical rate. It’s to the point of flooding the market with them. (there’s plenty of other examples)

Any time this happens with an item of value, it losses value. Thus any decent ranged weapon (usually ForteGunner weapons) with a high damage value, that only drops in few mission’s is crazy expensive. I mean, I just check the price value of an 8/10, 9/10, and 10/10 Rattelsnake and their all over 190mil!!! I guarantee if there was a better 12* Rifle that actually was dropping, then the value of Rattelsnakes would lower.


MAG also drops Ryusaikanohs at a retarded rate, if you want to go there. During MAG one I got three boards in three Delp Slami kills, and couldn't give the stupid things away for a while. Comparing Rattlesnake, currently one of those most obnoxious to obtain gunner weapons, to a relatively common drop like Crimson is disingenuous at best. A more apt comparison would be something like Kan Yu or Grand Cross, both of which are pretty irritating to get.

Then stack on top of that the fact that even once you get the board, you can still get a useless 10% and even if you get a decent percent it's set element, and maybe you'll understand why you don't get a lot of pity from melees.

Outfitting my GT has been far less painful than outfitting my melee characters was.

[relentless]

Zomg giresta part.2.

It got a bit of humor in it, but the wall of text takes away the enjoyable part. After reading the first 2 pages (I got 30 posts per page) I gave up... o_o;

Plus I don't see any elitists in here and no Giresta, only out-of-proportion people who admit to arguing to no end, which, in my opinion, is worth a /facepalm.
And yeah, this isn't in Guides & Walkthroughts either. :-P


My 2 cents on this topic:
fG are completely fine. :) Opinion? More like a fact.

[Adriano]

Derp . . .

[Darius_Drake]

I understand your point. I have a gunner character and a melee character. But a melee character does need more boards. If I want to get a set of Bil de Axe with a good % then I need at the very least 6 boards. Then you have to take into account a few of those may not come out, and then you have to take into account out of the ones that do make there will be some that have a crappy %. This puts me in the position of settling for a weapon with a crappy % or getting yet another board. When I am outfitting my gunner character all I have to worry about is whether or not the weapon makes successfully. On top of that I usually only have 2 or 3 tops of a particular gun. It has been far easier to get stuff for my future gunmaster set than to completely get my fighmaster completely set. My beef with how gunners are treated is they have no ultimate weapons. As much as I have searched for an Agito Repca for my melee character and not found crap I do like the thought that I can search. I only had a week or so to spam missions searching for the Love Inferno with no luck. Now I don't even have a choice in the matter. For the most part gunner weapons aren't that bad in price except for the freaking rifles. Only other gripe with gunner weapons, the only missions that I can truly do to find my own rifle causes lag do to robot explosions. This makes the missions seem like work instead of fun. I do know that S rank rifles will drop in price in the future because they are suppoed to drop from the parum (mine of illusion) mission. I just hate that I may have to wait for that mission before I can finish off my gunmaster pallete. Oh, by the way I am not spending 190 mil on one weapon. Not for a rattlesnake, not for an agito repca, not even for a love inferno.

[Delete]

Bringing up Agito Repca and Psycho Wand don't really help the argument too terribly much, since they only cover FF, PT and FT. Lots of classes don't have 12 star weapons. Personally, I'd like to see more global area-based rares in general, for every class.



Maybe i shoulda said actual race classes such as cast instead of gunners. Agito repca are a beasts friend as psycho wands are to newmans. And casts... well that just brings us back to love inferno i guess which once again, doesnt drop until next year.
Plus, its not true its hard to make a good percent weapon, its people who are sometimes picky because they want nothing lower then 42% or higher. Sure you get one element, but thats all you need. Just look at the muktengek for example. I have a crappy 14% 1/10 one and i still hit crazy numbers with dus majarra. Gunners having one rattlesnake is good, but just like another person said, just one grind more on one means its 10mil more expensive. Sure there are 5/5s for kinda cheap but who really wants one of those? Rattlesnake prices are as follows.
5/5=17mil-20mil
6/6=27mil-30mil
7/7=40mil-47mil
8/8=65mil-72mil
9/9=90mil-99999999+, once saw one for 80mil O.O
Of course you have the 5/10s and 4/10s for riduculas prices (50mil+) but whatever with those. Say you want a kan yu grinded to 8 or so. Its not gonna be any more than maybe 25-30mil. Maybe less.Or way less. So yeah, gunners only need one, but unlike fighters, grinds make our weapons. And it also takes money out of our pockets.

[desturel]

MAG also drops Ryusaikanohs at a retarded rate

Don't forget Gur Bazga.

MA:G S weapon drops are (not including Boss boxes / Falz):

Forest:
Card Regas
Crimson
Bil De Axe
Twin Durandal Replica
Durandal Replica

Caves:
B'duki Boa
Ryusaikanoh
Ank Dedda
Was: Sweet Death Now: Double Agito
Twin Varista

Mines:
Bulletdance
Shigga Bines
Phantom
Gur Bazga
Twin Ruby Bullet

Ruins:
Shura-hiken
Crimson
Gaozoran Rod
Was: Halp Serafi Now: Cati Skill
Carriguine Rucar
Twin DB Sabers

So breaking it down you have:

ForteFighters (not fighgunners or acrofighters):
Crimson
Bil De Axe
Ank Dedda
Twin Durandal Replica
Durandal Replica
Twin DB Sabers

3 S - 3 A

Fortegunners (not guntechers):
B'duki Boa
Ryusaikanoh
Gur Bazga
Twin Varista
Twin Ruby Bullets
Shigga Bines
Phantom
Durandal Replica

3 S - 5 A

Fortetecher:
Gaozoran Rod
Card Regas
Durandal Replica

1 S - 2 A

Fighgunners:
Crimson
Double Agito
Carriguine Rucar
Bulletdance
Twin Durandal Replica
Durandal Replica
Twin DB Sabers
Twin Varista
Twin Ruby Bullet

4 S - 5 A


Without NPC the boxes give you Ryusaikanoh and Card Regas (gunner techer, but already covered in drops, so doesn't really add anything).

Ash gives +2 S to fighgunners with Sweet Death and 2-headed Ragnus (and Stag, but that's a B rank item)

Krazy Kireek gives +3 S to fortefighter with Huge Cutter, Mugunruk, and Ank Zagzac (lol)

Sue added mostly to Acrofighter with Fuka-Misaki, Deva-zashi, and Shura-hiken (shura drops from Galdeen)

Rupica gives +2 S to fortetecher with Halarod and Kazarodoc. +1 A with Serdote (but seriously, who's hurting for Serdote at this point). She also gives +1 S to Acrotecher with Vish Adan.

BTW, for those comparing this to the Giresta thread, I feel this one is much more entertaining.

[relentless]

What the hell? Are you guys still on-topic??

[Kizeragi]

^I bet their jealous of your Giresta movie, they wanna make a topic like Giresta so someone will make one for them. /sarcasm

[Delete]

A more apt comparison would be something like Kan Yu or Grand Cross, both of which are pretty irritating to get.

Then stack on top of that the fact that even once you get the board, you can still get a useless 10% and even if you get a decent percent it's set element, and maybe you'll understand why you don't get a lot of pity from melees.



Heres the thing with this as well. At least for kan yu. They may be hard for you and me to find, but not others. The board only sells for 3-4mil which is way cheaper then a rattlesnake board which is around 20mil or so. And even if you make a 10%, you can buy 2 more boards and still not have spent as much as a rattlesnake board costs. Also remember, rattlesnakes can and will fail just like fighter weapons, ive failed a asted twice, not a rattle but you get the point, so thats another thing we have in common. You fail a kan yu? Your losing money, 3mil yeah. Fail a rattle? Goodbye 20mil. Im not asking for pity from anyone, just making a point clear is all.

Grand crosses are rarer by the way, but once again, there also cheaper than rattlesnake boards. I can sometimes buy them for 9mil. I dont though.

[Tiyr]

Heres the thing with this as well. At least for kan yu. They may be hard for you and me to find, but not others. The board only sells for 3-4mil which is way cheaper then a rattlesnake board which is around 20mil or so. And even if you make a 10%, you can buy 2 more boards and still not have spent as much as a rattlesnake board costs. Also remember, rattlesnakes can and will fail just like fighter weapons, ive failed a asted twice, not a rattle but you get the point, so thats another thing we have in common. You fail a kan yu? Your losing money, 3mil yeah. Fail a rattle? Goodbye 20mil. Im not asking for pity from anyone, just making a point clear is all.

Grand crosses are rarer by the way, but once again, there also cheaper than rattlesnake boards. I can sometimes buy them for 9mil. I dont though.

Sega's not responsible for player pricing. Maybe this is just me since I rarely--if ever--buy anything, but if there're more / cheaper Grand Cross boards out there and it's on par for rarity with a Rattlesnake, that just means more people are hunting it. One top of that, remember that you get a single element weapon for that. A leveled gunner gets a rifle for every mission, regardless of element, for one Rattlesnake. Even if you get a 50% Kan Yu, it's not as versatile or as useful as a single Rattlesnake.

As far as the pricing, that's not a problem with the game, that's a problem with the players only running the same handful of missions. Maybe make desert goliath more desirable to run? That's about the only way they'll come down in price.

[Adriano]

Sega's not responsible for player pricing. Maybe this is just me since I rarely--if ever--buy anything, but if there're more / cheaper Grand Cross boards out there and it's on par for rarity with a Rattlesnake, that just means more people are hunting it. One top of that, remember that you get a single element weapon for that. A leveled gunner gets a rifle for every mission, regardless of element, for one Rattlesnake. Even if you get a 50% Kan Yu, it's not as versatile or as useful as a single Rattlesnake.


Wow.... It's not as simple as just using ONE bullet for an entire mission. If thats not what you're saying then please elaborate. I mean if a gunner can use one elemental bullet the entire run of a mission then fighters can use one element of a weapon aswell. But I'd advise against it if you want to be competent. Gunners need multiples of weapons too, to fit different elemental bullets on the SAME type of gun, and swapping elemental bullets every time a different elemental spawn appears is not very time efficient (and different elemental spawns appear Quite frequently, WB/HG being an exception) , and it gets rather bothersome, just as it would if you swapped PA's for every different type of spawn. Which Nobody does.

Either way, I had a response similar to this earlier, but I wasn't going to post it because this argument is getting very derailed, and the points arent even being discussed anymore.

[Delete]

Either way, I had a response similar to this earlier, but I wasn't going to post it because this argument is getting very derailed, and the points arent even being discussed anymore.

Tell me about it, i got tired of repeating myself 100 posts ago.

[Tiyr]

Wow.... It's not as simple as just using ONE bullet for an entire mission. If thats not what you're saying then please elaborate. I mean if a gunner can use one elemental bullet the entire run of a mission then fighters can use one element of a weapon aswell. But I'd advise against it if you want to be competent. Gunners need multiples of weapons too, to fit different elemental bullets on the SAME type of gun, and swapping elemental bullets every time a different elemental spawn appears is not very time efficient (and different elemental spawns appear Quite frequently, WB being an exception) , and it gets rather bothersome, just as it would if you swapped PA's for every different type of spawn. Which Nobody does.

I actually do, most times. I mean, I've been primarily a GT for the past six months or so, and I've got two crossbows I switch between, but I'll change bullets multiple times a mission in some cases.

Mainly, though, I was referring to between missions. If I make a light Kan Yu or Carriguine-Rucar, it's only going to be effective on missions with dark enemies and entirely worthless against light. Always. Guns you can switch. It's definitely easier to have multiple of something than to switch bullets, but ever since they added autorun it's not hard to swap bullets around between spawns. I'll definitely agree that there are times when you'd want two, but let's not pretend that swapping bullets is anywhere near as prohibitive as set weapon elements.

On a side note, I'd kill to be able to hotkey a single one-handed weapon to multiple slots. The only reason I even HAVE multiple crossbows is because I need to still be able to use the things with different techs on different wands.

[Andy1423]

I think it's funny when I read all the complaints from people about which class has it easier (and whatever).

HELLO PEOPLE..... The real issue here is GAME DESIGN, and or the lack of

If you ask me every single complaint we have all relates and stems from the core design in this game. Everyone should realize that maybe instead of being mad at having to make 6 separate weapons to access all elements ,you should be mad that this game only allows 1 element per weapon.

THAT THE DUMBEST THINGS EVER!!!! So limiting

Not all weapons and ARMOR should be restricted to 1 frickin' element. I believe this to be one of the biggest mistakes in the game.

Yeah, not every weapons should have all elements, but why not have 2 or 3 on one sword? Whats the harm in that.

PSO did it that way, and that game turned out pretty well.

And even if you guys don's see the same vision I do, maybe I should pose another question.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE EVERY WEAPON? I'm mean WTF. Synthing is cool for a few rares but come on Sega, not all weapons have to use catilium in the synth.

So you see, being upset that this game make no sense sometimes is no cause to attack each other.

I suppose we could sit here and argue about how we all need to make 6 armors too!! That would only lead back to the original problem: Sega lets this game LACK...it needs way more.

Okay, I'm done.....you people are arguing yourselves in circles and are too close minded to even debate this stuff. Not too mention getting way off topic, from what I believe there's not much to argue only discuss.


P.S.> Is there a 12* REAL Kubara gunner weapon that drops????? Think about it, and READ THE FIRST POST AGIAN

[Adriano]

There's always neutral....

[desturel]

If there're more / cheaper Grand Cross boards out there and it's on par for rarity with a Rattlesnake, that just means more people are hunting it.

Not exactly. More people hunt Rattlesnake and there are more Rattlesnake out there than Grand Cross. Rattlesnake just has more people that want it. Grand Cross is a situational weapon that can be replaced by other similar weapons. Rattlesnake is a general purpose weapon that doesn't really have a peer. Even with a greater supply, the demand is greater. Thus the increased price.

A simpler example is Shigga Baret and Rattlesnake which drop on the same mission. Baret is cheaper than Rattlesnake although both have the same drop rate.

Same issue with Hoshi-kikami and Zanshu-misaki or Kazarod and Togeha-zashi (although with Togeha, most of the problem is that White Beast drops the made weapon so unless you make a 30% or better pair, no one is going to want it).

I'd say Needle Cannon and Rikauteri, but the market for Rikauteri crashed when Dark God came out. Before that and MA:G, Rikauteri easily sold for twice the amount of Needle Cannon.

[Delete]

Thanks for explaining that desturel. Couldnt of put that any better myself. :smile:

[shotsfired]

I think it's funny when I read all the complaints from people about which class has it easier (and whatever).

HELLO PEOPLE..... The real issue here is GAME DESIGN, and or the lack of

If you ask me every single complaint we have all relates and stems from the core design in this game. Everyone should realize that maybe instead of being mad at having to make 6 separate weapons to access all elements ,you should be mad that this game only allows 1 element per weapon.

THAT THE DUMBEST THINGS EVER!!!! So limiting

Not all weapons and ARMOR should be restricted to 1 frickin' element. I believe this to be one of the biggest mistakes in the game.

Yeah, not every weapons should have all elements, but why not have 2 or 3 on one sword? Whats the harm in that.

PSO did it that way, and that game turned out pretty well.

And even if you guys don's see the same vision I do, maybe I should pose another question.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE EVERY WEAPON? I'm mean WTF. Synthing is cool for a few rares but come on Sega, not all weapons have to use catilium in the synth.

So you see, being upset that this game make no sense sometimes is no cause to attack each other.

I suppose we could sit here and argue about how we all need to make 6 armors too!! That would only lead back to the original problem: Sega lets this game LACK...it needs way more.

Okay, I'm done.....you people are arguing yourselves in circles and are too close minded to even debate this stuff. Not too mention getting way off topic, from what I believe there's not much to argue only discuss.


P.S.> Is there a 12* REAL Kubara gunner weapon that drops????? Think about it, and READ THE FIRST POST AGIAN


period. close post. start anew.