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June_Mermaid
Aug 2, 2008, 12:41 PM
I was lookin in my storage items and i happen to find 16 nanopolymers in there. So im like hmmm how much are they? so i looked them up & they where 220k so i wanted to sell them fast mind you i didnt pay a cent for any of them so i put it in my shop for 190k sold in 2 mins and i made 3mil off them the dude who bought them called me a nub and put them in his shop for 220k. Do you think im a noobish for this?

ashley50
Aug 2, 2008, 12:45 PM
undercutting...i don't think so

afterthoughtz
Aug 2, 2008, 12:51 PM
I was lookin in my storage items and i happen to find 16 nanopolymers in there. So im like hmmm how much are they? so i looked them up & they where 220k so i wanted to sell them fast mind you i didnt pay a cent for any of them so i put it in my shop for 190k sold in 2 mins and i made 3mil off them the dude who bought them called me a nub and put them in his shop for 220k. Do you think im a noobish for this?
Well it would have been better for you (and economy) to put them where they should be, for a few reasonsm if you woulda put them in for 220K it might of takin a bit longer but you still would sold them, making roughly 1/4 then what you did, also some other guy might seen yours and put his for 100K, then another guy comes along and puts hi sfor 90K, pretty soon they aint worth nothing, but as far as that goes i wouldnt say your a noob for it :-P

Sidney
Aug 2, 2008, 12:57 PM
No, that guy is just a jerk. Don't worry! <3
Sounds one of those people too busy camping shops all day to buy cheap stuff and sell it back higher to, you know, actually play the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the person in your room was someone I have on my blacklist, who is pretty infamous for stuff like this. If you wanted to sell it cheap, sell it cheap! Don't let some stupid jerk with an enlarged e-peen ruin your day. :]

RobTrance
Aug 2, 2008, 12:59 PM
Nah your not a noob, but unless you really needed the meseta for somthing you should of kept them for synthing. becuase when you do eventually want to synth an armor.. your gonna have fun hunting em all again ^^

Kylie
Aug 2, 2008, 01:03 PM
Nah, it's fine to undercut prices. I mean, you can do what you want to, and that guy was just being an ass because yours sold before his. Here's hoping his never sells at 220k, and he loses money from buying yours. :wacko:

DarkEliteRico
Aug 2, 2008, 01:07 PM
You made free money, he's having to spend some to make some.....i don't think that's n00bish at all.

Kinako78
Aug 2, 2008, 01:08 PM
I always undercut other player shops, too. So, it's smart business, not n00bish-ness.

Candor
Aug 2, 2008, 02:27 PM
No, that guy is just a jerk. Don't worry! <3
Sounds one of those people too busy camping shops all day to buy cheap stuff and sell it back higher to, you know, actually play the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the person in your room was someone I have on my blacklist, who is pretty infamous for stuff like this. If you wanted to sell it cheap, sell it cheap! Don't let some stupid jerk with an enlarged e-peen ruin your day. :]

While what that guy said may classify him as a jerk I don't think buying low, selling high is something you should be "infamous" for. In any other game with a player market it's a legitimate way of making money. That being said I haven't done it in PSU, too much work.

Triple_S
Aug 2, 2008, 02:33 PM
I can't say I wouldn't Buy Low, Sell A Bit Higher, but I wouldn't call you a n00b for selling low. You made a profit, didn't you?

I used to do that all the time back when Kubiri-Hiken was worth something. Someone would sell theirs really low, I'd buy it and sell it for something a bit closer to the next lowest price (usually bought for like 400,000 and sold for 950,000) and that's how I got any kind of money. Some people (like me) need to do that because we've hit the point where equipment stops being affordable and jumps into the millions, but our current level keeps us from getting decent amounts of meseta within a reasonable time span.

nooblet
Aug 2, 2008, 02:36 PM
Well it would have been better for you (and economy) to put them where they should be, for a few reasonsm if you woulda put them in for 220K it might of takin a bit longer but you still would sold them, making roughly 1/4 then what you did, also some other guy might seen yours and put his for 100K, then another guy comes along and puts hi sfor 90K, pretty soon they aint worth nothing, but as far as that goes i wouldnt say your a noob for it :-P

with nanopolymers being in such a high demmand even more so witht he synth boost, i wouldnt worry about the price of it to be dropping like flys even if more people were to undercut.

Namine
Aug 2, 2008, 02:42 PM
While what that guy said may classify him as a jerk I don't think buying low, selling high is something you should be "infamous" for. In any other game with a player market it's a legitimate way of making money. That being said I haven't done it in PSU, too much work.

Using 5 different accounts(different ID #'s) to drive the market down to half, then using an acount that doesn't have the items for sell to buy the ones cheaper than those 5 different account shops. Yeah, thats fair...

Triple_S
Aug 2, 2008, 02:55 PM
Using 5 different accounts(different ID #'s) to drive the market down to half, then using an acount that doesn't have the items for sell to buy the ones cheaper than those 5 different account shops. Yeah, thats fair...

That's quite different than what Candor was saying. If you're going to explain what the "infamous" guy did, try to do it without sounding like a sarcastic jerk. You're basically calling him stupid.

Candor
Aug 2, 2008, 03:28 PM
That's simply manipulating the market, and as Triple_S said completely different from BLSH (clever isn't it?). And who in their right mind makes 5 accounts just to make money in a game, PSU even.

I simply wanted to point out that a lot of people in PSU have a hatred for people who resell their stuff, when in any other game it's fair to do so. I think it's because of how personal the market is, it's like someone came into your room and "stole" (yes i've heard people say this) your goods just to make a profit.

Xenoguner
Aug 2, 2008, 03:34 PM
Of course your not a noob D: But it all depends on how low you undercut the market, that determins if you yourself will be undercutted. I mean, 220k was the lowest, and you put yours at 190k? ppl wudnt mind buying you out, then putting their prices even at 200k. Thats how some ppl, work; to stop ppl from undercutting an item till its nothingness x.x; At least at a slower rate.

DarkLord Hades
Aug 2, 2008, 03:47 PM
He's just jelous of ur Nano collecting abilities... while u got ur 3mil (for free), he's gotta spend that to make a mil... This game is about doing what u want, when u want... and if ur doing that (while not being a emo-lame ur cool in my book)

GregBackwards
Aug 3, 2008, 01:10 AM
Maybe its my bad luck day talking, but I'm not a fan of people who undercut. While it does work, it quickly lowers the market value of an item.

At the beginning of today I was browsing my inventory of things to sell. I came across Neu Walnas, Metapolymers, Nanopolymers, and Ortapolymers. I did some looking on the player shops, and 750k, 400k, 500k, and 300k (respectively), were all very fair prices -- that is to say, prices that would have appeared without scrolling down. By the end of today (about 10 minutes ago), the -polymers dropped in price pretty drastically. While I didn't check the Walnas, the -polymers dropped 150k, ~250k (!!), and 50k respectively. I was wondering why all day none of them sold, when I understand they're a fairly hot commodity.

I used to undercut, and it worked, and I was happy, but I certainly didn't make the money that I wanted to make. I think it should be people's responsibility to think about what their actions might do to the market. I think for the rarity of these items, people should be deserving 500k and up for their efforts, instead of what could potentially be 10k in the future.

/rant.

BFGfreak
Aug 3, 2008, 11:24 AM
I used to undercut, and it worked, and I was happy, but I certainly didn't make the money that I wanted to make. I think it should be people's responsibility to think about what their actions might do to the market. I think for the rarity of these items, people should be deserving 500k and up for their efforts, instead of what could potentially be 10k in the future.

/rant.
QFFT!!

Candor
Aug 3, 2008, 03:00 PM
Maybe its my bad luck day talking, but I'm not a fan of people who undercut. While it does work, it quickly lowers the market value of an item.

At the beginning of today I was browsing my inventory of things to sell. I came across Neu Walnas, Metapolymers, Nanopolymers, and Ortapolymers. I did some looking on the player shops, and 750k, 400k, 500k, and 300k (respectively), were all very fair prices -- that is to say, prices that would have appeared without scrolling down. By the end of today (about 10 minutes ago), the -polymers dropped in price pretty drastically. While I didn't check the Walnas, the -polymers dropped 150k, ~250k (!!), and 50k respectively. I was wondering why all day none of them sold, when I understand they're a fairly hot commodity.

I used to undercut, and it worked, and I was happy, but I certainly didn't make the money that I wanted to make. I think it should be people's responsibility to think about what their actions might do to the market. I think for the rarity of these items, people should be deserving 500k and up for their efforts, instead of what could potentially be 10k in the future.

/rant.
You have a good point, I've also seen this happen over the course of a day, and i end up never selling the item i put up because the market plummeted. I don't believe undercutting is any more common in PSU than any other game, however because of how the player market is set up there's not as many people buying out those low prices and reselling them at reasonable levels; therefore keeping the market steady.

June_Mermaid
Aug 3, 2008, 03:55 PM
LMAO! i just checked the dumbass who bought my nanopolyers and he still has them in his shop the lowest is now 175k and he dropped down to 210 but the crazy part is that he has 4 stacks of them so i guess he has been buying them all to make a profit i think its a big waste of time but hey made my 3 mil lol

Zoamel_Gustav
Aug 3, 2008, 04:27 PM
You were not noobish for this. You checked the prices, made 3mil in 2 mins and didnt pay a cent. You did well.

I disagree with GregBackwards.


Maybe its my bad luck day talking, but I'm not a fan of people who undercut. While it does work, it quickly lowers the market value of an item.


Most items are currently overpriced. Lowering the market value of items raises the value of meseta and vice versa. Meseta is currently undervalued.



At the beginning of today I was browsing my inventory of things to sell. I came across Neu Walnas, Metapolymers, Nanopolymers, and Ortapolymers. I did some looking on the player shops, and 750k, 400k, 500k, and 300k (respectively), were all very fair prices -- that is to say, prices that would have appeared without scrolling down.


Those were not fair prices. The only use for polymers is S rank line shields synthesis. A 10 star line shield board requires 20 polymers. Success rate is 76%.

This means 20 polymers (+other mats) is only worth a 76% chance at a 10 star line shield of average elemental percent.

Paying half a mill per polymer would mean paying an average of 13.4 mil to make a single 10 star line shield of average elemental percentage.

Keep in mind, a shop can "only" hold a stack of meseta. Also the Hard materials series goes 500, 2,500, 7,500. The Calculated NPC Price of polymers is 10,000.



I was wondering why all day none of them sold, when I understand they're a fairly hot commodity.


Searching only shows the prices of items which have not been sold yet. If they are not selling at X price, then they are not worth X price. Undercutting only speeds up the process of reaching the right price, which is good. The market is not currently healthy enough for buying low and selling higher tactics. No amount of demand can make an informed buyer overpay. Every buyer can farm items, so every seller is in competition with the game's drop rates.



I think it should be people's responsibility to think about what their actions might do to the market.


I agree, for different reasons. Items are for people who want them. I think the point of the market is to get people the items they want.

As a community, we should want people to get the items they want. We should want the market to move. We should want farmers to farm. We should want synthers to synth. We should want buyers to buy. We should want grinders to grind. We should want items to move, change, and improve. We should want buyers and sellers to trust each other.

We should not want items sitting in storage or in shops for days. We should not want searching for an item to be a waste of time. We should not want items to be unaffordable or unbuyable. We should not want meseta to be "worthless". We should not want people to be unreasonable.



I think for the rarity of these items, people should be deserving 500k and up for their efforts, instead of what could potentially be 10k in the future.
/rant.

I disagree. That would mean 2 stacks of such items would deserve over a stack of meseta.

Whew, sorry, I needed to rant a bit too. The economy have been bugging me lately.

GregBackwards
Aug 3, 2008, 07:41 PM
Very well said, sir. ^^

I have no rebuttal to what you've said. Both sides of the argument are valid, in one way or another.

The economy has been bugging me too...

gryphonvii
Aug 3, 2008, 08:03 PM
Its not noobish, I sell stuff for lower prices to move it faster that if I sold it at face value, I still get enough money to fund my escapades and faster than some other peopl.

Cracka_J
Aug 3, 2008, 09:14 PM
No, that guy is just a jerk. Don't worry! <3
Sounds one of those people too busy camping shops all day to buy cheap stuff and sell it back higher to, you know, actually play the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the person in your room was someone I have on my blacklist, who is pretty infamous for stuff like this. If you wanted to sell it cheap, sell it cheap! Don't let some stupid jerk with an enlarged e-peen ruin your day. :]


Yawn. 2 sides to every story.
Just because you mispriced something, you can't hold a grudge against the world for it ;)

But that's another story. You wanted to make quick change, so you undercut and sold quickly. Don't worry too much about the other guy, he probably resold the stuff, but it took him 2x the time it took you to sell it in the first place. Bottom line him being a douche for calling a nub, cause you walked away with his cash in the end.

WildArms2
Aug 4, 2008, 03:08 AM
You were not noobish for this. You checked the prices, made 3mil in 2 mins and didnt pay a cent. You did well.

I disagree with GregBackwards.



Most items are currently overpriced. Lowering the market value of items raises the value of meseta and vice versa. Meseta is currently undervalued. .

Meseta has been flooded on the market via MAG and white beast since there is soo much meseta in the game it drives prices up. Because meseta is soo easy to get it should have little value. The only way mesta will rise in value is if they make it harder to get or drain the game of the current stockpile of meseta. They could drain meseta by making PP refills cost a lot more, adding new boards to the NPC shops at a highier price tag, making it soo you can buy casino coins with your, meseta llike 1000 meseta per copper, making monsters drop less money.




Those were not fair prices. The only use for polymers is S rank line shields synthesis. A 10 star line shield board requires 20 polymers. Success rate is 76%.

This means 20 polymers (+other mats) is only worth a 76% chance at a 10 star line shield of average elemental percent.

Paying half a mill per polymer would mean paying an average of 13.4 mil to make a single 10 star line shield of average elemental percentage.

Keep in mind, a shop can "only" hold a stack of meseta. Also the Hard materials series goes 500, 2,500, 7,500. The Calculated NPC Price of polymers is 10,000. .

Polymers aren't sold in the npc stores and just because you can predict what price they would sell at doesn't mean thats what they would be priced at. Plus it doesnt look right at all if resins are 7500 5k more than carbons why would polymers only be 2.5k more than resins? They should be atleast 5k more than resins probably 22.5k if my math is right. I remever someitems had a different NPC by back rate like 1/10 where as others had 1/20


Searching only shows the prices of items which have not been sold yet. If they are not selling at X price, then they are not worth X price. Undercutting only speeds up the process of reaching the right price, which is good. The market is not currently healthy enough for buying low and selling higher tactics. No amount of demand can make an informed buyer overpay. Every buyer can farm items, so every seller is in competition with the game's drop rates.



I agree, for different reasons. Items are for people who want them. I think the point of the market is to get people the items they want.

As a community, we should want people to get the items they want. We should want the market to move. We should want farmers to farm. We should want synthers to synth. We should want buyers to buy. We should want grinders to grind. We should want items to move, change, and improve. We should want buyers and sellers to trust each other.

We should not want items sitting in storage or in shops for days. We should not want searching for an item to be a waste of time. We should not want items to be unaffordable or unbuyable. We should not want meseta to be "worthless". We should not want people to be unreasonable.



I disagree. That would mean 2 stacks of such items would deserve over a stack of meseta.

Whew, sorry, I needed to rant a bit too. The economy have been bugging me lately.

Brainwrecked
Aug 4, 2008, 04:08 AM
Well it would have been better for you (and economy) to put them where they should be, for a few reasonsm if you woulda put them in for 220K it might of takin a bit longer but you still would sold them, making roughly 1/4 then what you did, also some other guy might seen yours and put his for 100K, then another guy comes along and puts hi sfor 90K, pretty soon they aint worth nothing, but as far as that goes i wouldnt say your a noob for it :-P

I absolutely hate this crap. If everybody set their prices the same, there'd be no incentive to go to any particular shop. It would be a race to change your price back and forth to maintain your status at the top of the list. (Items in shop searches are sorted by your conditions, then by most recently changed in the event of a tie.)

If everybody relied on a "noob" to lower their price, there'd be no "noob" lowering their prices, thus putting us right back to square one.

3,000,000 / 190,000 = 15.79, so the guy had at least 16 Nanopolymers

(220,000 - 190,000) x 16 = 480,000, so he potentially "lost" 480k Meseta. Meseta he might not have made at a 220,000 price-point.

Sure enough, however, the market price dropped to 175,000. Guess what? By selling at 190,000 when he did, OP made 240,000 more than he would have. For now, the price-fixing noob is looking at a minimum of 240,000 loss on investment. All because the price-fixing noob thought the OP was being a noob.

All of these silly economic games for what? A game that's going to be unplugged and data-purged with the next 5-10 years. How about actually playing instead of wasting time trying to be masters of the PSU economy? It's not exactly like you can put "I made 5 stacks of Meseta in PSU" on a resume.

$5Footlong
Aug 4, 2008, 10:00 AM
Well it would have been better for you (and economy) to put them where they should be, for a few reasonsm if you woulda put them in for 220K it might of takin a bit longer but you still would sold them, making roughly 1/4 then what you did, also some other guy might seen yours and put his for 100K, then another guy comes along and puts hi sfor 90K, pretty soon they aint worth nothing, but as far as that goes i wouldnt say your a noob for it :-P
You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all 220k - 190k = 30k. 30k does not equal 1/4 of 190k. Secondly you do not understand how this economy works. He put it in for cheaper than the lowest price which is why his sold first. Undercutting does not work the way you think it does.:(

Darius_Drake
Aug 4, 2008, 10:18 AM
I definitely don't see you a noob. You made a profit of 190k for each polymer. Your so called insulting friend will only make a profit of 30k of the polymer that he bought from you. End result:

you make 190k/polymer out of his pocket
he will hopefully make 30k/polymer out of his pocket

(I say hopefully cause last I checked the price is dropping, I saw them on sale at 165 -170k late last night. He may have to drop his price to sell further eating into his so called profit.)

Zoamel_Gustav
Aug 4, 2008, 01:40 PM
Meseta has been flooded on the market via MAG and white beast since there is soo much meseta in the game it drives prices up.


The flow of Meseta is balanced by the flow of player shop sellable items. The rich have "soo much meseta" because they are not spending it because there is not enough affordable items to buy. Instead of selling, people are either hoarding or asking too much. People are not farming, synthing or grinding weapons enough. People are choosing to not sink (invest) their meseta then complaining there is too much of it.

Meseta only seems to be worthless because people keep saying so. The value of meseta is objective, not subjective. 2500 meseta is still and always will be worth at least one scape doll. A few meseta will always be worth a PP cube refill. A few more meseta will always be enough for synthing decent equipment for farming. Drop rates, synth rates, and grind rates can not go down below a set normal.


Because meseta is soo easy to get it should have little value.


The value of an item is base on the amount of many resources required to obtain it. The value of meseta is as currency, a measure of value inversely equal to the value of items. If a buyer can afford an item, it does not matter how much extra meseta they have in storage.

If someone wants just one ebon, an NPC store do not care if that someone has 4000 meseta or a stack of meseta. You meet the reqs to get an ebon, you get it. The game treats everyone the same. It does not matter how easy it is to get 4000 meseta. That 4000 meseta will always be worth at least one ebon. Ebon is worth meeting the reqs to make average equipment.

If someone wants just one polymer, the drop rates do not care if that someone has average equipment or "the best" equipment. You meet the reqs to get an polymer, you get it. The game treats everyone the same. It does not matter how easy it is to get the meseta to synth average weapons, that equipment will always be worth at least the ability to farm at least one polymer.

As I stated before, sellers are in competition with the drop rates and each other. Sellers are players, not NPCs or enemies. Players have free will and understanding. Players are suppose to run better shops then NPCs.

Buyers will take the lowest offers. If the lowest offers are from the drop rates, then the market fails. If farming is better then shopping, no one will shop and meseta becomes unspendable. It does not matter how easy meseta is to get, what matters how it is spent.


The only way mesta will rise in value is if they make it harder to get or drain the game of the current stockpile of meseta. They could drain meseta by making PP refills cost a lot more, adding new boards to the NPC shops at a highier price tag, making it soo you can buy casino coins with your, meseta llike 1000 meseta per copper, making monsters drop less money.


A resource sink is a resource sink. Failed synthesis is a meseta sink. 10% weapons are a meseta sink. 0/6 weapons are a meseta sink. These meseta sinks are designed with one important side effect: the 50% or +10 weapon. There would be a lot more of these weapons if people would lower their prices enough for synthesis and grinding to be affordable to everyone.



Polymers aren't sold in the npc stores


An npc store is just a box with a 100% drop rate and costs meseta. Meseta costs time anyways. Polymers are "sold" by "Rol Medoc", "Desert rocks", "Alterazgohg's boxes" and "Middle of nowhere when a rare dropped that I wasn't even looking for". None of these sources costs 100k+ worth of resources per polymer.



and just because you can predict what price they would sell at doesn't mean thats what they would be priced at.


Buy back prices are not picked at random. They are based on the designed worth of the item. Drop rates, stat values, synth rates, element percentage, grind rates, etc are all numbers. Numbers balanced with formulas, the same as the buy back prices are. Many people can not afford to synth or grind because they can not afford sinking the meseta until prices come down.



Plus it doesn't look right at all if resins are 7500 5k more than carbons why would polymers only be 2.5k more than resins? They should be at least 5k more than resins probably 22.5k if my math is right.


Diminished returns. Balanced increases are logarithmic, not linear. Rate of increase goes down as you go further. There is an asymptote which keeps any item from being worth over a stack. It's like how the ATA formula can't hit 100%, it's designed to be impossible for an item to be worth 100% of a stack.

500 x5 is 2500. 2500 x3 is 7500. 7500 x1.33 is about 10000. Stat wise, B ranks are a lot better then C ranks. Stat wise, S ranks are only a little tiny bit better then A ranks. Diminished returns.



I remever someitems had a different NPC by back rate like 1/10 where as others had 1/20

http://psupedia.info/Meseta#Item_Meseta_values

Buy back rate for any Synthesis Ingredient is 5% except Biomaterials.