Making a Fortegunner.. weapon questions

[linkz4461(x)]

I really don't want to use more than 3 different kinds of weapons. So far I'm looking at crossbow and shotgun.. What other weapon should I add and are these good?

[ashley50]

Rifles...
Grenades...
Twin Handguns...

[Yuicihi]

Rifles...
Grenades...This.
If you don't have a Rifle, at least... You don't have a Fortegunner.

[NexGen]

In my opinion, you're limiting yourself greatly with crossbow and shotgun - both are kinda similar. I'd ditch the crossbow personally.

If I HAD to have only 3 weapons....

Shotgun
Grenade
Rifle

I do like lasers, and machineguns, and double pistols, and...well, all of them :p

[linkz4461(x)]

ok well what weapons would be the best.. i dont really like grenade launchers or lasers

[Ethateral]

I'd say:

Rifle
Twin Handguns
Shotgun

That's me. >.>

Lasers are fun though. X3

[RobTrance]

Im a PT, but from what i can get out of the weps i can use.
▪Grenades own bosses like De ragan, ragnus, wb boss (dont know its name, dont like wb >.>) and stuff.

▪Shotguns yeah they're pretty good, i use mine pretty much all the time if i cant be bothered go malee or use traps. good for takin out small mobs.

▪Rifles seem to be a good FG weapon, i've never used one but i've seen other people using them and they do they're fair share of damage.

▪Twin Handguns, i remember using these when i was a Fighgunner ages ago, they were pretty decent for picking off enemies with quick accuracy =P

[Meta77]

i just got a double agito and i was wondering what element i should make it.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Definitely level up Yak Zagenga for the crossbow. It's the only crossbow PA you need and it's an amazingly powerful weapon PA. People will be religious about the weapons that do most damage, but to me, it's about which weapons are most fun to use.

I really enjoy using twin handguns and so many classes (types) in PSU can use them. They come in a variety of flavors. Yeah, I really just recommend at looking at pictures of weapons and using them based off of aesthetic appeal as opposed to pure damage numbers. An extra bullet to kill a monster isn't a big deal.

[ashley50]

i just got a double agito and i was wondering what element i should make it.

Now that's random...

[Hrith]

Rifles, shotguns, crossbows, grenades, lasers and spears, anything else on a Fortegunner is a waste of time.

[Dakkon]

Rifles, shotguns, crossbows, grenades, lasers and spears, anything else on a Fortegunner is a waste of time.

Such an arrogant and unwise post.


For me it goes like this:

·Staples: Rilfe and Shotgun
·Situational: Laser and Grenade Launcher
·Movile: Mechgun
·Melee: 1 Handed

Almost every FG on the game uses and agrees on the first four, that's the easy part, the different approaching and debate to the class comes in the form of choosing the Melee option and the "Movile" option.

When considering a Fortegunner movility weapon, Crossbow and Twin Handguns are the popular and easy choices, being Machine Gun oversight by most of people. Why? Machine Gun is the weaker option on the early development of the character itself and the bullets, because its damage output is extremely dependent on the player base ATP and the own bullets, more than any other weapon because it has the lowest ATP and the fastest firing rate. But the same factors that make it the worst in the early game, make it the best in the late game (now 130~140/20). Amongst Crossbow and Twin Handguns it outdamages both over time (850 per Mechgun bullet is no joke I tell you), plus both Crossbow and Twin Handguns are overlapped and redundant in their secondary roles with Shotgun (pointblanking role) and Rifle (FPV and range) respectively.
Yes, you can do well with Twin Hanguns and or Crossbow, and be very proud about it, but speaking of making your time worthwhile (and not your palette unnecessarily overlapped with functionality similar weapons) Machine Gun wins.

Finaly we have the melee issue, this is more up to the player, as all Saber, Dagger and Spear make the same role, I consider better suited Saber or Dagger, because they combine with Mechgun or Crossbow (I explained why Mechgun is superior, not that Crossbow is bad, I'm not pretending to convince anyone to discard his hard earned Crossbow bullets) and the class can use them at their full potential, skill cap wise for the full combo, and game wise for the instant speed answer, quickly switching to the Gun or the C.C.W. as needed for any incoming threat, rather than loading a Spear and having one of your 6 palette slots unnecessarily taken. "But Majarra is so powerful", "Majarra is the only way", "I can't live without Majarra", then let it to your Fortefighter and shut the fuck up. "But I like shooting things too!" then go Protranser or Fighunner and shut the fuck up again. No, seriously, Majarra is very valid but overused, it will perform the work well (not necessarily better than Hikai or Spinning, or some other skill), but aside the aforementioned ugliness from having an empty hand and then a whole extra palette slot with a lone Crossbow and a Spear, think about this: How many Spear skills do you use often and may fulfill different actions? just one, Majarra, and now what about Dagger or Saber? All three of each are useful, but more importantly, aside from pure damage skills as Hikai or Spinning Strike, both have also control skills with Shunbu and Rising Strike, for the cases where there is no way to switch to and aim your launcher in time, you just have to switch to the other hand.

Again: is up to you. I explained my points, and I'm absolutely convinced that they are the better approach at Fortegunner, as for exaple Hrith is about his, but I'm very respectful with whatever the other players think and do, as if it coincides with my way as if it doesn't.
Just get used to and know your tools, and use them wisely.

[Chibi_psu]

MACHINEGUNS AND XBOWS ARE FOR GUNTECHERS :@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Rifle,shotgun,grenade launcher,laser and twin handguns. Heavy guns for fortegunner.ZAZENGA SUCKS BTW( in before that loli cast)

[Dakkon]

MACHINEGUNS AND XBOWS ARE FOR GUNTECHERS :@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


Chibita, querida ratona, despite Guntechers having S rank access to Machine Gun, the lack of base ATP on that class makes it for a poor option, no matter how cute you see yourself holding a Bulletdance.

[biggabertha]

Hrith's reply is direct to the point - every other weapon available to a Fortegunner at this point that he has not listed will not deal as much damage or perform as quickly as those weapons.

Saber and Dagger has nothing on a Spear when you consider just how quickly Dus Majarra and Dus Daggas throws out damage in comparison. They're also much stronger and accurate weapons by themselves.

Until we get that handy Photon charge update that fills up both off-hand weapons, carrying a solo off-hand weapon is better for a Fortegunner.

The biggest issue with Machine guns that I've had, is getting a 10/10 Beam Vulcanic to have all of that PP. Otherwise, the weapon runs out far too quickly and you can only hold ten Photon Charges. Not only that, the range on a machine gun is EXTREMELY poor. If you're going to be THAT close to an enemy, you might as well use a Shotgun. Crossbow lets you stay at an extremely safe distance when the bullet is at Lv. 31+.

Limiting yourself to just three weapons is strange but if I were to choose just three weapons, then it'd be Rifle, Shotgun and Laser Cannon. Of course, that'd mean I'm rather useless when I come up against a bullet resistant enemy and I can't deal with bosses/dangerous enemies/enemies with multiple hit areas as quickly as I can without Grenade Launchers and crossbows are insanely useful for the things that like to roll out of your way or for dealing with neutral enemies (Yak Zagenga).

[Dakkon]

the range on a machine gun is EXTREMELY poor. If you're going to be THAT close to an enemy, you might as well use a Shotgun. Crossbow lets you stay at an extremely safe distance when the bullet is at Lv. 31+.


31+ Crossbow range: 16 meters
31+ Machine Gun range: 13 meters

Yes... extremely..... specially considering Crossbow spread effectiveness at long distances, not even to mention in a single target.

[EMPYREAN]

rifle, granade gun, laser, shotty, twin pistols, xbow and sword/dagger is all u need as a FG.

[Tetsaru]

I usually stick with the following in my palette:

2 rifles
laser
shotgun
crossbow + dagger
grenade launcher

I usually stick to my shotguns for damage and suppressing multiple enemies, and rifles for long-distance.

Lasers are good ONLY if the enemies you're facing are lined up or are close together, so I don't use them too often. It's hard to rack up huge damage with a laser if your enemies are too spread out, or are moving too fast.

Only use grenades against bosses, Drua Gohras, Kogg Nadds, etc. - the things with 3 or more hitboxes - and only use Boma Duranga, as it greatly surpasses the other grenade PA's in terms of damage. DON'T use them on large mobs; I don't care what anyone else says. The damage output will be slow, and you'll only piss off the other people in the party when they can't hit anything. Use a laser or a shotgun in that case.

For a mobility weapon, crossbows and twin handguns are both fine damage-wise imo, but I'm starting to lean towards crossbows more nowadays for their superior versatility. Crossbows get up to Lv3 status effects at Lv21, compared to twin handguns' constant Lv2. Crossbows also have a range similar to shotguns when leveled, while twin handguns have a longer, narrow range. Another thing that makes crossbows more awesome is the fact that you can pair a saber or dagger with them for melee damage; for me, I use a dagger with either Hikai Shuha-zan or Buten-Shuren-zan, though a saber with Rising Strike would also be a good alternative. The only real advantage that twin handguns have over crossbows is the fact that you can use first-person view with them... but if you're doing that, you're not utilizing the fact that you could be strafing with them instead. Use a rifle if you want to fire in FPV.

Stuff I don't use as FG:

Spears. A lot of people say it's good to have one for those bullet-resistant enemies, but my dagger usually does just fine. FG's only get Lv20 Skills anyway, so you couldn't utilize the last hit of Dus Majarra or whatever other PA you like to use, whereas with sabers and daggers, you can. Also, if your rifle bullets are high enough level (31+), you can just flinch-lock these types of enemies anyway, even though it might take longer to kill them. We FG's have access to Burn G, Virus G, and Poison G traps for a reason, too. =P

Machine guns. They have horrible range, horrible status effect levels, and mediocre damage. Other than the fact that they can flinch-lock (coughriflescough), a crossbow trumps them any day. Also, as biggabertha said, at machine gun range, you might as well could use a shotgun too.

Finally, I will personally ninjutsu bitch-slap of doom you if I see you using a handgun or range-mag as a FG. -_-X

But yeah, I'd definitely go with rifles and shotguns, and then w/e else for your 3rd gun. Just remember to cover every element with your bullets, and LEVEL THEM.

[Kizeragi]

Rifles, shotguns, crossbows, grenades, lasers and spears, anything else on a Fortegunner is a waste of time.

Straight to the point, and I agree with you.

[amtalx]

If you really want to focus on a small weapon set, pick from the Gunmaster weapons. You'll probably end up changing to it anyway. Your choices are: Shotgun, Rifle, Laser Cannon, and Twin Handguns. I'd wait in the Twins.

[Hrith]

Such an arrogant and unwise post.Arrogant if you wish, but unwise... not even in your wildest dreams.

There is no better way to play FG as I suggested.

When considering a Fortegunner movility weapon, Crossbow and Twin Handguns are the popular and easy choices, being Machine Gun oversight by most of people. Why? Machine Gun is the weaker option (...)Machineguns outdamage twin handguns, so get your facts straight to begin with.

Crossbow is significantly more powerful than either, so both machineguns and twin handguns are rendered obsolete by crossbows, for both damage and SE. If you're even more concerned about damage, Yak Zagenga has DPS matching shotguns.

Twin handguns are weaker than rifles, rifles also have more accuracy, a lot more range and a much better SE level.

Crossbow and Twin Handguns are overlapped and redundant in their secondary roles with Shotgun (pointblanking role) and Rifle (FPV and range) respectively.If you think crossbows and shotguns overlap, you are greatly mistaken, or know too little about playing a gunner. The mobility of crossbows make the weapon closer to other mobile weapons than shotguns.

speaking of making your time worthwhile (and not your palette unnecessarily overlapped with functionality similar weapons) Machine Gun wins.Machineguns win in what, exactly? Crossbows have more range, more power, more accuracy, better SE, more PP, and will last longer, every gunner knows how fast machineguns empty.

Crossbows win in every department when compared to machineguns.

Finaly we have the melee issue, this is more up to the player, as all Saber, Dagger and Spear make the same role, I consider better suited Saber or Dagger, because they combine with Mechgun or CrossbowYou're forgetting two aspects of melee weapons here, which further prove your lack of experience as a Fortegunner:
-pairing a saber or a dagger with a crossbow or a machinegun means that you will have to use the menu to refill weapons' PP gauges, a huge annoyance and waste of time. I know the Japanese servers have this fixed, but we don't.
-Dus Majarra is plain out more powerful. Hikai Shuha-zan is as powerful as Dus Majarra, but Dus Majarra offers other advantages, such as range, mobility, etc.

I explained why Mechgun is superiorAnd totally failed at that, since mechgun is inferior in every way.

rather than loading a Spear and having one of your 6 palette slots unnecessarily taken.If you had read more carefully, I listed six weapon types, so having a spear would not take another weapon's spot on the palette.

Moreover, you rarely have to carry that many weapon types for one mission.
If you take MAG, for instance, grenades are useless, there, so you have only 5 spots taken (I use it to carry another spear).

If you play Desert Goliath, you will not need lasers = another free slot.
If you play Sacred Stream, you need neither grenades nor lasers = two free slots.

And so on...

The six slots of a Fortegunner's palette are rarely taken, which allows you to put several of one weapon type.

not necessarily better than Hikai or SpinningYou think Spinning Strike is a valid PA? Oh god, I think we're reaching the bottom of Fortegunner levels.

I'll just say this to you, Spinning Strike is weaker than Hikai or Majarra against any amount of targets, even one.

aside the aforementioned ugliness from having an empty hand and then a whole extra palette slot with a lone Crossbow and a SpearUgliness is subjective, we're not discussing subjectivity, here.
That being said, I'd rather have a "lone crossbow" than have to use the menu to recharge my weapons.

How many Spear skills do you use often and may fulfill different actions? just one, MajarraYour question is biased in how you are formulating it.
The good question to ask would be "what uses does a Fortegunner have for melee?" To which the answer would be "damage the bullet-resistant critters", and that Dus Majarra does best.
There are a few instances where I'll use Dus Daggas (Adahna Degahna comes to mind).

Of course Rising Strike and Shunbu Shouren-zan can juggle or stagger monsters, and keep some big ones off their feet, but what use is that when I can simply kill them? >_>


Now if your point was to stress that there are other ways to play Fortegunner, fine, I agree with that, everyone plays how they want. But there is no better way.

[xAmrit]

I would have:

2 Rifles (S Ranks)
2 Shotguns (S Ranks)
1 Grenade Launcher (S Rank)
1 Machine Gun w/ Slicer (A Ranks)

[Dakkon]

Arrogant if you wish, but unwise... not even in your wildest dreams.
Machineguns outdamage twin handguns, so get your facts straight to begin with.


+


I explained why Mechgun is superior.

And totally failed at that, since mechgun is inferior in every way.

Please, get your eyes fixed or your thoughts arranged.

Crossbow is significantly more powerful than either, so both machineguns and twin handguns are rendered obsolete by crossbows, for both damage and SE.
Machine Gun DPS is higher than Crossbow excepting Zagenga.

Twin handguns are weaker than rifles, rifles also have more accuracy, a lot more range and a much better SE level.
XD wtf? again with Twin Handguns? I never flattered Twin Handguns in my post, again, check your eyes or short your thoughts.

You're forgetting two aspects of melee weapons here, which further prove your lack of experience as a Fortegunner:
-pairing a saber or a dagger with a crossbow or a machinegun means that you will have to use the menu to refill weapons' PP gauges, a huge annoyance and waste of time. I know the Japanese servers have this fixed, but we don't.
Never ever needed to come back to the lobby for Photon Charges when soloing a S2 or S AoI mission using Machine Gun almost exclusively, plus the idioticy from the kid rant about split Photon Charges... you, the so skilled god, is so hard to do "F2, up arrow, down arrow, down arrow, enter".....
Man... LOL

And so on...
Yes, and so on... I could argue and counter with from logic to proof, every one of your answers to mine, and we could keep this forever, but there is no worse blind one, than the one who doesn't want to see. I won't keep this e-peen contest, so now reply whatever you want, I'm done with you and your short sighted arrogance. gg.

Oh, btw, I'm Fortegunner from the day the advanced classes came out, but, unlike you, I don't need to constantly prove myself.


Kisses.

[amtalx]

I'll agree that Hrith's debating tactics aren't the most diplomatic or humble, but you are way off base with Xbow vs. Machinegun. Xbows have always been more powerful, and that's even ignoring the significantly stronger SE power.

[panzer_unit]

really? about crossbows

Mech skills have higher ATP and ele compared to crossbows, which should at the very least compensate for Crossbow's better ATP on a stronger class like Fortegunner or Fighgunner ... it looks like they can crank out hits at about the same rate, maybe at worst it's 5 mech hits for every 6 crossbow? The crossbow won't all be against the same target either unless you're point-blanking. The flinch rate from mechs is a pretty good defensive effect for small and medium monsters, a mechgun will pretty much incapacitate its target regardless of element you're using.

lol Hrith whenever he comes up with an opinion and yells it at the internet as loud and offensively as he can. His opinion of internet forums is that the only way to do it is shout people down in order to have his own way. IMO even if he's right it's like a monkey picking high-growth stocks or a stopped clock pointing at the correct time, if there's any logic or reason behind any of what he says I have yet to see him use it in order to make people believe the crap he comes up with sometimes.

[biggabertha]

Machine guns can't Just Counter very well. Those first few bullets don't do anything and it's REALLY annoying when you square up against those damned Kakwanes. Crossbow is handy there but I just prefer Shotgunning or Lasering those things because Just counter works in your favour with those weapons.

Annoyingly though, Shotgun doesn't have mobility like the Crossbow or Machine Gun but doesn't run out as quickly as either.

This argument is very much similar to the Melee Vs. Bullet damage argument. Sure, melee on paper, should flat out, out-damage bullets or anything for that matter but those stupid interrruptions (anyone being stomped out of Anga Jabroga juuuust as it's about to hit the ground knows this well) makes bullets waaaaaay better.

Therefore, yes, I'll admit machine guns should be dishing out the best damage (provided you have a Beam Vulcanic at a decent grind) on paper but they run out quickly, you got to be so close to the enemies (seriously, I notice the tiny bit of difference in range between a Lv. 21 Crossbow bolt to a Lv. 31+ bolt and it's colossal in-game) and I often see annoying 0s when using Machine Guns but maybe that's because I'm using a Human, not a Cast.

It's true that Machine guns have less accuracy, less attack and less of an SE level but they make up for it by having the best firing rate. You're also arguing that Machine guns are really awesome when base ATP and base ATA are high to compensate for such a weakness but this holds true for a Crossbow. Crossbows have better stats than Machine guns and are only beaten by firing rate. Since Crossbows outlast Machine guns too...

I haven't counted them out but I think Machine gun fires about three shots a second and empty in about thirty seconds or less? Crossbow shoots about three shots a second too and empty in around ninety seconds? (Using an Aikasoki here compared to a Beam Vulcanic with a Fortegunner and Lv. 40 bullets.)

Well, I should make a video of tackling those five or six Kakwanes at the beginning of White Beast with both the Crossbow and then a Machine Gun so we can have some hard evidence of exactly which is better. Anyone willing to teach me how to compress the Fraps stuff down a tad so I can upload it? Mac native user here... (barely managed to get bootcamp to work and even then, installing PSU was a major hassle...)

The hit box for a Crossbow is awesome for enemies that duck and roll around you. You can safely deal damage to them even if you stop and start. You can even let go of the firing button. You can't change direction so easily with a Machine gun and keep up the consistent damage - the whole point to being a Fortegunner.

Personally, the fact that you can only shoot in a direct line with a mobile weapon is rather annoying since I find that it's usually best to use mobile weapons on mobile enemies. Don't you also find it annoying when enemies run away from you (Vanda Orga and Kakwanes)?



Finally, three meters is a HUUUUUGE difference. That's just under ten feet or about three average steps. Arguably, the distance is a lot shorter in the game since they move so much faster there but when you are that close to an enemy, you don't want to waste even a fraction of a second waiting for the bullets to register themselves.

[amtalx]

Ever since I started this game I've wanted weapon firing rates for EVERY GUN. I know a few, but no one seems to know all of them.

[hyperacute]

Personally, rifle and shotgun are a must. Without these, you may as well pick a different class. If you play a lot of solo as I do, never underestimate level 4 burn on a rifle for sticking s/e on the bigger critters and then running around killing the smaller ones while they burn to death. If you plan on soloing places like Desert Goliath and GoF (and what FG wouldn't given the drops), Killer Shot on the annoying robots is recommended.

Shotgun at 21+ can inflict some nice damage on single critters by point blanking and is great for crowd control at distance.

If you play a lot of the dragon type bosses, grenades are a good way of taking them down fast. Personally, I use Boma Duranga, reflect damage is not to everyone's taste though.

The other weapon I would reccomend is a good spear with Dus Majarra. Try taking on the robot bosses (Adahna Degahna, Magas Maggahna) with one and see how fast they fall.

Lasers I won't comment on, I'm sure they are very good, I personally don't use them (find them too situational).

A good crossbow with 21+ bullets is sort of like a mobile shotgun (3 bullets on 1 target or 1 bullet on 3 targets). Personally I love them. Especially with Yak Zagenga if, like me, you enjoy running around with "close to dead" HP to max the damage. The fact that you can move while shooting makes them pretty darn useful (especially at the moment spamming through MAG) Given they leave a hand free, I team them up with a dagger (refilling from the menu isn't the herculean task some posters make out, even solo) so I can take out the small stuff with the crossbow then barrel into the larger beasts with some melee.

Twin handguns and machineguns I personally find a bit meh (despite having level 40 bullets for some of the PAs). Low s/e and so-so damage output, I tend to include these to fill up palette space. Not really worth focussing on IMO.

Just some opinions, I still maintain use whatever suits your play style.

[Hrith]

(no argument at all)And here's how people who cannot accept being proven wrong react.

You're just so blatant.

[panzer_unit]

Machine guns can't Just Counter very well.

Therefore, yes, I'll admit machine guns should be dishing out the best damage (provided you have a Beam Vulcanic at a decent grind) on paper but they run out quickly, you got to be so close to the enemies (seriously, I notice the tiny bit of difference in range between a Lv. 21 Crossbow bolt to a Lv. 31+ bolt and it's colossal in-game) and I often see annoying 0s when using Machine Guns but maybe that's because I'm using a Human, not a Cast.
...
It's true that Machine guns have less accuracy, less attack and less of an SE level but they make up for it by having the best firing rate. You're also arguing that Machine guns are really awesome when base ATP and base ATA are high to compensate for such a weakness but this holds true for a Crossbow. Crossbows have better stats than Machine guns and are only beaten by firing rate. Since Crossbows outlast Machine guns too...
...
The hit box for a Crossbow is awesome for enemies that duck and roll around you. ... Personally, the fact that you can only shoot in a direct line with a mobile weapon is rather annoying

JC is a pretty irrelevant complaint about mechs since there's no reason to get into a position where you're being hit, and if things go wrong I'd hardly look at a crossbow for bailing myself out; shotgun blows everything else away in those situations.

The higher %'s on mechgun skills make them a match for crossbows on a hit-for-hit basis even with some pretty modest Fortegunner stats.

1200 base ATP
mechgun: +50 ATP, 170% skill = 2125 total
crossbow: +250 ATP, 155% skill = 2247 total
... so yeah, like a 5% per-hit damage disadvantage for mechguns. Mechguns have 6% more element at that level, which would totally close the gap if it were as simple as +24% total for mech and +18% total for crossbow.

950 base ATA
mechgun: +50 ATA and 87% ATA skill = 870 total
crossbow: +150 ATA and 60% ATA skill = 660 total
... crossbow has a ~30% higher miss rate, like if you miss 10% with a mech it's 13% with a crossbow.

Supposing the rate of fire is actually equal between the two, having a target in range at all with a mechgun is as good as having them constantly at point blank with a crossbow. While your target's stuck spazzing in place (no such thing as 'mobile' enemies once they start taking hits, even those annoying side-roll guys) you're free to use that mobility to dodge around incoming attacks from everything else. It's best if you start hitting an enemy at an angle to the rest of their group and dodge the group's attacks by moving forward/back rather than sidestepping and breaking aim.
Mechs also have an interesting feature that they strafe without having to hold the camera lock key, letting you look around freely while firing. I suppose it might be useful for something but mostly it just looks really cool.

Crossbows are better for PP endurance and SE application, but mechguns don't deserve the bad rap they've gotten for damage output.

[Hrith]

Machineguns fire 198 times per minute (198 hits).
Crossbows fire 81 times per minute (243 hits).
Shotguns fire 49 times per minute (245 hits).
Twin handguns fire 80 times per minute (160 hits).
Rifles fire 111 times per minute (111 hits).

That's without the Gunmaster boost, for the concerned weapons.

So yeah, machineguns are clearly behind crossbows.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Machineguns fire 198 times per minute (198 hits).
Crossbows fire 81 times per minute (243 hits).
Shotguns fire 49 times per minute (245 hits).
Twin handguns fire 80 times per minute (160 hits).
Rifles fire 111 times per minute (111 hits).

That's without the Gunmaster boost, for the concerned weapons.

So yeah, machineguns are clearly behind crossbows.

No offense to your numbers here but a crossbow only wins at point blank range. The time required to move from target to target and fire at point blank range is quite a bit when compared to the fact that a machinegun can fire while strafing and does not need to be up close to be effective.

[Hrith]

"lol"

[panzer_unit]

Machineguns fire 198 times per minute (198 hits).
Crossbows fire 81 times per minute (243 hits).
Shotguns fire 49 times per minute (245 hits).
Twin handguns fire 80 times per minute (160 hits).
Rifles fire 111 times per minute (111 hits).

These are some hard numbers to believe... I guessed Crossbow might put out a few more shots over time, but the pew-pew from Twin Handgun adding up to 4/5 the rate of fire, and even rifle hitting almost 2/3 as fast seem like fairytales.

How fast do handguns supposedly shoot? They're significantly stronger for ATP (thanks, B'duki Maganac) with a 10% ATP advantage on skills. If the rate of fire is as shockingly close as other 'slow' stuff it might be worth it to do the math there.

Even with the given rates it doesn't take a lot of disruption firing at point-blank with a crossbow before mech breaks even. Depending on what you're shooting at, 20% isn't a lot of time you can afford to spend jogging, aiming, etc.

[Syl]

Oh Hrith you~

[Alastor_Haven]

Holy shit man

That is some good calculation

Perfectly Accurate

[Para]

360 is enough proof that mechgun fails. ;o

lol j/k but good calculations. Always figured that Crossbows were the best stuff for GTs and so forth.

[biggabertha]

It's really odd how some people just cannot take facts. Hrith's given the hard evidence and Crossbow outperforms a Machine gun even in the number of bullets thrown out.

What I'm concerned about is how he got a Machine gun to last that long... Cati Bullet Save on a Fortegunner with a Beam Vulcanic 10/10?

Forget what I said about range and creatures tumbling out of the way, whatever works for you is fine. I still think that three meters is a world of difference and you can easily distinguish the difference in game too - what remains to be seen however, is how the original poster will determine what to do after all of the posts in this thread.

[Genoa]

If you really don't want to use more than 3 different types of weapons, you shouldn't ask what to use. That's like asking "I want to make more money but I don't want to work harder"
You have to put the effort into utilizing all your weapon selection's potential to use FG at it's best.

You get Saber/Dagger which can combo with Machinegun/Crossbow. You should put knock-back skills on it so you can push enemy way to continue the fire with the 1-handed guns.
Rifle - SE and Knockback
Shotgun - Heavy Dmg
Grenade - Heavy Dmg AoE and Knockback
Laser Cannon - Pierceing and high elemental % dmg
(saber/crossbow or whatever combo)
(dagger/machinegun or whatever combo)

[DRACO13198]

DEFINITELY a rifle. That's all there is to say.

[Hrith]

What I'm concerned about is how he got a Machine gun to last that long... Cati Bullet Save on a Fortegunner with a Beam Vulcanic 10/10?But machinegun is clearly the weapon in the game which benefits the most from ATP, so not using at least a Cati / Power is a major loss in DPS; it would widen the gap between other weapons, comparatively.

Machineguns are really nice on Fighgunners, IMO, for a lot of reasons:
FI specialises in two single-handed melee weapons.
FI is primarily a melee class, so the quickly drained PP of the machinegun is not so much an issue, since you'll be using melee a lot more.
FI has high base ATP.

Since machineguns rely so much on the character's ATP, it's likely they will one day surpass crossbows in DPS, when we have enough ATP for that -- but that probably won't be until Lv180+ if the class levels remain at 20, less if they increase classes to 30 or more. Although that will be for elemental crossbow PAs, it'll take more than that to match the DPS of Yak Zagenga.

[mvffin]

What I'm concerned about is how he got a Machine gun to last that long... Cati Bullet Save on a Fortegunner with a Beam Vulcanic 10/10?

Pretty sure HPC and bullet saves do nothing for PP usage of MG's.

[panzer_unit]

Since machineguns rely so much on the character's ATP, it's likely they will one day surpass crossbows in DPS, when we have enough ATP for that -- but that probably won't be until Lv180+ if the class levels remain at 20, less if they increase classes to 30 or more. Although that will be for elemental crossbow PAs, it'll take more than that to match the DPS of Yak Zagenga.

Mechguns can pull ahead of Crossbows for per-hit damage thanks to the higher ATP% but even at best (assuming no base ATP advantage for xbow, or infinite character ATP to make the diff insignificant) the per-hit damage advantage will max out at about 10% compared to xbow. Even assuming 5% more damage output from higher element, and 5% from higher ATA they'll never match crossbow allegedly firing 25% more shots over time.

It's close though. Level 50 skills might do it. Normal mechgun progression gains 1% element and 5% more ATP compared to crossbow every 10 levels.

Even long-term I think mechgun's advantage is always going to be the same: it incapacitates any small/medium target it attacks regardless of element (your defensive options aren't limited to lightning and ice) and can do full damage to a single target from outside of melee range. The frag skills Mayalee Fury and Yak Zagenga are like a coles' notes version of "what mechs and crossbows are good for". One's got reliable damage rate and contributes to team safety. The other is more pure damage but with more risk and fewer beneficial side effects ... unless you pick a defensive SE over element %, in which case proper element mechgun does more damage.