PSU is harder than PSO (for techers)?

[•Col•]

So yeah, she says that PSU is 10 times harder for techers than what it was in PSO... Of course, I disagreed with her, and I wanted to get outside opinions on this matter...

Discuss.

[goldbrease]

most the bosses are easier, most the normal mobs can be harder.

[Dre_o]

Ever seen a team of 4 Forces with lv 30 Rafoie in PSO? Ever seen the enemies they leave behind? No. It's because they leave nothing at all. Not even dust. Nuking enemies was the bane of Hunters in PSO.

In short:

Yes. The general idea of being a Force is MUCH harder in PSU. Hell, I'm not even a primary Force and I can tell this.

(not to mention that only Forces have Resta, thus they have to baby-sit anyone who sucks)

EDIT: You should change the title to include the Force part. Cause as a whole, PSU is far easier than PSO. PSO had a final boss who could freeze you then dice you with little flying pod things, not to mention Olga and the Ep 4 boss.

What does PSU have?....A meteor attack. That you can survive with ease.

[Alastor_Haven]

PSO Bosses>PSU bosses
-
I'll agree with
PSO DELASABER>PSU DELASABER

[beatrixkiddo]

De La Soul?

[CelestialBlade]

PSO wasn't hard. But it was harder than PSU.

[beatrixkiddo]

the only difficulty in PSO was finding Charge mechguns with 50% hit.

[Xaeris]

LFG for Pioneer 2 Shop runs, pst.

[Powder Keg]

Stat wise PSO was harder, things could kick your ass no matter what level you were at. But you could get so good at that game that you can pretty much clear room after room without taking a single hit.

[beatrixkiddo]

Yeah but in PSO, S/D and J/Z actually DID something. A force with lv30 support techs was pretty safe in almost all situations.

[Powder Keg]

That's true, you could make some enemies to the point where they couldn't do any damage.

[chaoskila]

pso was the shit.
psu umm techers are better than pso now they ARE the ONLY who can RESTA.

[SubstanceD]

I'd have to agree. PSU seems to be alot more difficult then PSO for forces.

[Miyoko]

It's probably a bit harder to be a techer in PSU, since debuffs aren't as potent, but... In PSU, you can actually kill things with techs at a reasonable speed! ;p

[GaNksTa]

FO > FT^∞

First off.. at level 15 given the proper equipment you could have every tech at level 30, I know I did. MAX techs along with a superior (Easier) lock-on system and an incredibly long range that could even go through walls given the tech made FO > ALL.

Also, one mustn't forget that FOs raped, beat, and tortured ALL other classes in Battle. As mentioned earlier support techs made a difference; I remember casting J/Z on the little HUmars and watching them swing away doing 50 dmg to me or less.

An unlikely possibility of a FO struggling would be fighting a boss by themselves.. though theres answer for that.. Excalibur.. that is all. If you're not a FOmar and can't use one.. then your techs should easily be sufficient.. if not then ..lol.. you need to rethink your character choice..

[Ogni-XR21]

In PSO every technique was auto aiming (except Barta in BB), this difference alone makes PSU much harder for forces. You could just enter any room and spam away your techs. In BB you had shortcuts that made every techs available at the press of one key. You could have high level techs by just using the respective disk.

PSO force was a walk in the park compared to PSU forces.

[Mysterious-G]

I will never get used to PSU's technic system.
I was the hell of a techer in PSO, but I will NEVER touch a techer at PSU. I just do not like it.

PSO Ep.1&2 made forces a bit more special, making them them the only ones that were able to learn certain technics, and also made them the only ones being able to have technics at high levels.

I admit, PSO's system is way easier for Forces. I just got myself a high technic mag, which made me capable of using the best discs. >_>;

Overall, I like technics alot more in PSO. They were kind of an assistance, for every class (but CASTs).

and HELL, just too many elements in PSU. :(

[Yoyu]

being a force in psu is different in that the tech system reminds me much of the materia system from ff-7. figuring out which tech goes best with each weapon or bot (mag or whatever those companion thingies are called in illuminus, i forget :P) is the challenging part, but in all honesty i don't find it that much harder than leveling forces in pso, only in the area of targeting if any. maybe i'm too used to sega's programming to really notice any striking differences, lol. :D

[desturel]

Ever seen a team of 4 Forces with lv 30 Rafoie in PSO? Ever seen the enemies they leave behind? No. It's because they leave nothing at all.

Except in Ultimate where 2/3 of the enemies were completely immune to Rafoie. :) I preferred Gifoie anyway. Stand in the center of the room and have everything around you die. I miss that old animation as well. The circular fires of death.

Oh and I miss old Zonde too. The "I heard a beep, I press a button" method of play was very entertaining.

[darkante]

Except in Ultimate where 2/3 of the enemies were completely immune to Rafoie. :) I preferred Gifoie anyway. Stand in the center of the room and have everything around you die. I miss that old animation as well. The circular fires of death.

Oh and I miss old Zonde too. The "I heard a beep, I press a button" method of play was very entertaining.

Indeed, in Ultimate the force were pretty much useless on Episode 2 besides maybe for Megid spamming.
Everything got ridiculous elemental defence there.
And Olga Flow is just cruel with his random element nullifies.

At least on Episode IV (the unmentioned server version) the enemies had little resistance.
The boss there is pretty much lol there with the right spell. D:


Can´t disagree loving Gifoie either, you just started a couple of them...went into the next room fast..let the spawn take all the hits...go back to previous room..repeat until they are dead. Cheap, but effective. :D

[amtalx]

Yep, everyone saying that Forces were awesome in PSO never made it to Ult... They were USELESS on Ult. You job was to buff/heal and get out of the way. Oh, and try not to get 1 hit KOed by Falz's critical.

[Mysterious-G]

Yep, everyone saying that Forces were awesome in PSO never made it to Ult... They were USELESS on Ult. You job was to buff/heal and get out of the way. Oh, and try not to get 1 hit KOed by Falz's critical.

Falz? A force making it that far has my respect. :roll:

[Ogni-XR21]

That's a good point, soloing as a force on Ultimate Ruins was a no go for me (but I never made it to 200, I guess 168 was my max. lvl.), but I only played in groups anyway. But soloing S2 as a techer in PSU isn't any good either (except SW).

Still forces were much easier to handle in PSO due to the auto aim.

[Para]

PSO v2 damage formula > the rest of PSU for difficulty.

[Neith]

Ever seen a team of 4 Forces with lv 30 Rafoie in PSO? Ever seen the enemies they leave behind? No. It's because they leave nothing at all. Not even dust. Nuking enemies was the bane of Hunters in PSO.


Must have been a different PSO to the one I played, because Forces were terrible offensively online. Aside from being Restabags and trying to melee (oh, and maybe Megid the occasional minor enemy) they weren't worth using as attacking characters in Ultimate. Hunters meanwhile, just like PSU mowed everything down without trying. FO wasn't bad in Normal/Hard/Very Hard, but totally useless as an attacker in Ult.

Offline they weren't too bad (still owned by Hunters though) but online they were terrible. I think it's because enemy tech resistances were very high online, making Forces (particularly the ones who couldn't melee well like FOnewearl) useless as an offensive weapon.

The same has carried into PSU (aside from monster resists), so Forces do decent damage now, but are still left standing by Hunters and Rangers.

[fay]

i dunno why everyone is sayign forces were usless on ultimate in pso.

i personally played fonewerl. (the class with lowest def and hp). im level 156 if i remember right and i could solo the whole of ultimate easily including falz. well the last part of falz was a challenge but thats it.
oh and btw. in pso i never used buffs/debuff. i only liked attack spells :/

i can safely say i can solo any level of ultimate with ease in pso but 1 level. that being the seabed.
those big blue and red things still kill me easily. cant remember name but i think its somethign like sinow zola

i didnt have the opertunity of online play those days. i was offline all the way.

[amtalx]

Sure, it wasn't hard but a RAcast could do it about 100x faster, and any of the Hunter variety could do it even faster than that. :D

[darkante]

Sure, it wasn't hard but a RAcast could do it about 100x faster, and any of the Hunter variety could do it even faster than that. :D

You mean like a Hucast with Charge Mechguns that has a shitload of ATA %?
Seemed to be very popular last time i were on the unmentioned server.

[Powder Keg]

PSO v2 damage formula > the rest of PSU for difficulty.

Nothing like doing a max of like, 40 damage with max MST on your force with level 30 Rafoie.

[Inazuma]

i remember force being extremely good in psobb. FOnewearl was the best char overall. only some parts of ep4 gave us trouble, otherwise we totally slaughtered the monsters very fast. for those of you complaining about forces being weak, did you know all the monster element weaknesses and take full advantage of tech boosting items?

pso was a lot easier for forces compared to psu. even soloing dark falz on multimode ultimate as a a lv 81 fonewearl was doable w/o any deaths if you were good enough. having good gear in pso really made a huge difference both for offense and defense.

[landman]

Starting a new character Force in PSU is easier than PSO, you just need some spare rods (create extra newman for them) to complete any mission doing awesome damage compared to other classes, but in PSO you hardly gain money to buy fluids, and you DON'T have the money to make a MIND Mag, the damage may be the same, but you run out of TP very fast and as you lvl monofluids are not enough and difluids dry your money very fast... (I just spent all my money in parties and then hunted for rappies in offline mode to be able to play online again...)

I can't talk of harder lvls since I haven't played them much in any of the games, but I've always heard of the Damage Cancel and why RA technics where a pain to the party in ultimate...


Gameplay wise, in PSO they auto aimed and nuked the whole room, but they where not very powerful, and PSO control is not so good compared to PSU, sidesteping and moving the camera freely is great using techniks (aiming in PSO is a pain...)

[Kylie]

I've recently gotten into PSO, and I think that certain aspects of the game are easier than in PSU. Some thing are harder, and some things are funner as well. However, it's not really comparable to me. There are too many differences between the games, and you're setting yourself up if you're expecting one to be anything like the other.

[RufuSwho]

i found that in PSO the debuffs would really make everything easy

same can be said for PSU, but who uses debuffs? some use def down, some even eva/agi down, but who has atk down?

in high damage rooms in PSO you couldn't keep up healing the damage until your debuffs were in place

use the eva/agi and def buffs, then the atk and agi/eva debuffs and you will only be killed by megid like everyone else (uh, something about armor, too)

PSU has techers with nerfed buffs/debuffs, which IS an additional challenge

[desturel]

Falz? A force making it that far has my respect. :roll:

I wouldn't go that far. It was pretty easy to make it to Falz on Ult. Even underleveled (I believe I was only level 120 the first I made it past the Chaos Bringers in the last room of the Ruins). It was just very time consuming. Basically you ran out of the room and spammed techs, then ran back into the room while the techs were doing their thing. The hardest things to fight were Garantz (Shinowa Gold was a PITA too), Chaos Sorcerers, Chaos Bringers and Falz himself. The Sil Dragon, De Rol Le, and Vol Ops v.2 weren't a big deal if you knew their patterns (come on, who made it to ultimate without knowing their patterns? Even V.2 with his random pounders wasn't much of a challenge.)

The problem with Falz is he was impossible to beat unless you had enough HP (Grants).

*edit* looks like I was a bit late with this argument. Should have read the rest of the thread first. :D

[Magus_84]

Tech resists. Ultimate. Online.

Yes, a "weakness" means you only take a 60% hit to your damage.

At least on PSU, you can effectively damage enemies with techs. On PSO...well. Try killing an Ultimate online Chaos Bringer with techs. Before it kills you.

Against that, the whole "lol I have to use 2x as many Digas to kill big stuff" rant really doesn't compare.

[RedRaz0r]

The thing I didnt like about PSO force was how many spells you could have for shortcuts at a time. Well I played on the xbox version, and BB seemed to fix that

[darkante]

i remember force being extremely good in psobb. FOnewearl was the best char overall. only some parts of ep4 gave us trouble, otherwise we totally slaughtered the monsters very fast. for those of you complaining about forces being weak, did you know all the monster element weaknesses and take full advantage of tech boosting items?

pso was a lot easier for forces compared to psu. even soloing dark falz on multimode ultimate as a a lv 81 fonewearl was doable w/o any deaths if you were good enough. having good gear in pso really made a huge difference both for offense and defense.
When enemies takes around only 150-200 dmg, when having lv 30 techniques, max MST using the right element.
That means something is wrong, so i can´t really say that Forces slaughter things then.
Episode 2 is the prime target for the unfair elemental defences.

[Ceresa]

When enemies takes around only 150-200 dmg, when having lv 30 techniques, max MST using the right element.
That means something is wrong, so i can´t really say that Forces slaughter things then.
Episode 2 is the prime target for the unfair elemental defences.

150-200 dmg sounds like the wrong element or poor gear.

Proper element + psychowand/agni/indra/dagon + red/blue/yellow/raseries merges was 300-400 dmg on online, and 700-800 on single player. Not the best damage per attack in the world but seeing as you could fire a Ra every second and stuff only had around 3k hp you could mow through it pretty fast, especially since you didn't need to wait for it to clump together like a hunter. And except for psychowand, that gear is hella trivial to get, especially via trading online, offline not so much, but offline you don't need anything to dominate with a force.

And seeing as the main difficult stage in ep2 was seabed, where Megid was rather effective on the most dangerous stuff (morphos / deldepth / sinows) then yeah, Force (or rather fonewearl, the rest couldn't tech for shit) was rather well off.

[darkante]

150-200 dmg sounds like the wrong element or poor gear.

Proper element + psychowand/agni/indra/dagon + red/blue/yellow/raseries merges was 300-400 dmg on online, and 700-800 on single player. Not the best damage per attack in the world but seeing as you could fire a Ra every second and stuff only had around 3k hp you could mow through it pretty fast, especially since you didn't need to wait for it to clump together like a hunter. And except for psychowand, that gear is hella trivial to get, especially via trading online, offline not so much, but offline you don't need anything to dominate with a force.

And seeing as the main difficult stage in ep2 was seabed, where Megid was rather effective on the most dangerous stuff (morphos / deldepth / sinows) then yeah, Force (or rather fonewearl, the rest couldn't tech for shit) was rather well off.
A hunter (specially Hucast) can do dmg, zillion times faster with just a Charge Mechgun.
Ranger´s best weapon is teh cheap Spread Needle, raping everything.
Mechgun and freezing foes actually made everything easy peacy.

That is what they can do.

I mean, you shouldn´t need max on everything as a force to do decent dmg to enemies when comparing to other classes.

Although, Megid works wonders on some things on Episode 2 which made up much for the elemental defence, which i assume is why everyone loves Fonewearl more for the Megid penetrating through the enemies on a line. =P

[Magus_84]

150-200 dmg sounds like the wrong element or poor gear.

Proper element + psychowand/agni/indra/dagon + red/blue/yellow/raseries merges was 300-400 dmg on online, and 700-800 on single player. Not the best damage per attack in the world but seeing as you could fire a Ra every second and stuff only had around 3k hp you could mow through it pretty fast, especially since you didn't need to wait for it to clump together like a hunter. And except for psychowand, that gear is hella trivial to get, especially via trading online, offline not so much, but offline you don't need anything to dominate with a force.

And seeing as the main difficult stage in ep2 was seabed, where Megid was rather effective on the most dangerous stuff (morphos / deldepth / sinows) then yeah, Force (or rather fonewearl, the rest couldn't tech for shit) was rather well off.


Tower. And Megid was only effective on Sinow Zele. Sinow Zoa liked to use your face for a punching bag. Don't forget Delbiter, too.

And Mericarols. And Gibbles. Both in CCA. Those numbers are a bit high. Go and play around with the tech damage calculator a bit. Like, for example...

Against an Ill Gill, using a Fonewearl with level 30 Foie, max MST, Foie Merge and Club of Laconium (ie: maximum possible damage you'll get out of a tech, using the highest-damaging simple tech against a fire-'weak' enemy), you're going to do 511 damage per shot.

Ill Gills have 4160 HP online. Along with a dash, an instant-death scythe attack and two different flavors of immobilizing scythe. Plus a mid-ranged smoke that can root you to the ground. Against that, try getting off the 9 Foies you need to kill one of them before you get splattered.

And remember, at your absolute best, you'll need 9 Foies. If you've got less than max MST, less than level 30 Foie, or decide to actually use a shield that boosts your resists, DFP or EVP, it will take more than 9.

And the Ill Gill won't be the only thing shooting at you. For another example, try Mericarol. With the maximum possible damage boosts (max MST, Mace of Adaman, Fonewearl, Barta Merge), you'll be doing 621 a shot. At your maximum potential, that's 10 Bartas to kill a Mericarol. It has a homing, ranged, instant kill attack that you cannot defend against, except by dodging. And if you get close, it has an instant-death ring of smoke it can launch. Good luck getting off those Bartas.

Most of the "techs did good damage" stuff is comparing against weakling grunts like Boomas. If you were up against anything that's actually a threat, techs got nerfed hard.

[darkante]

Tower. And Megid was only effective on Sinow Zele. Sinow Zoa liked to use your face for a punching bag. Don't forget Delbiter, too.

And Mericarols. And Gibbles. Both in CCA. Those numbers are a bit high. Go and play around with the tech damage calculator a bit. Like, for example...

Against an Ill Gill, using a Fonewearl with level 30 Foie, max MST, Foie Merge and Club of Laconium (ie: maximum possible damage you'll get out of a tech, using the highest-damaging simple tech against a fire-'weak' enemy), you're going to do 511 damage per shot.

Ill Gills have 4160 HP online. Along with a dash, an instant-death scythe attack and two different flavors of immobilizing scythe. Plus a mid-ranged smoke that can root you to the ground. Against that, try getting off the 9 Foies you need to kill one of them before you get splattered.

And remember, at your absolute best, you'll need 9 Foies. If you've got less than max MST, less than level 30 Foie, or decide to actually use a shield that boosts your resists, DFP or EVP, it will take more than 9.

And the Ill Gill won't be the only thing shooting at you. For another example, try Mericarol. With the maximum possible damage boosts (max MST, Mace of Adaman, Fonewearl, Barta Merge), you'll be doing 621 a shot. At your maximum potential, that's 10 Bartas to kill a Mericarol. It has a homing, ranged, instant kill attack that you cannot defend against, except by dodging. And if you get close, it has an instant-death ring of smoke it can launch. Good luck getting off those Bartas.

Most of the "techs did good damage" stuff is comparing against weakling grunts like Boomas. If you were up against anything that's actually a threat, techs got nerfed hard.
Ohh yeah, Tower is a good example of HELL.
Phantasmal World 4 i think were on the towers, that gotta be one of the hardest missions in the game...raping your ass over and over again if you decide to solo it.

[Finalzone]

i found that in PSO the debuffs would really make everything easy

same can be said for PSU, but who uses debuffs? some use def down, some even eva/agi down, but who has atk down?

in high damage rooms in PSO you couldn't keep up healing the damage until your debuffs were in place

use the eva/agi and def buffs, then the atk and agi/eva debuffs and you will only be killed by megid like everyone else (uh, something about armor, too)

PSU has techers with nerfed buffs/debuffs, which IS an additional challenge

I uses debuff on some circumstance against big enemy surrounded by minions.