Luminus Kaos / Knight = The Red / Knight killer?

[str898mustang]

Was looking at the Lightning Beast S2 drops and saw that Luminus Kaos / Knight drops there. I can see this being good for gunners and some fighters (jabroken never missing for example). Once this unit comes out, would it make Red / Knight useless to some classes? Also this unit would a hella lot easier to obtain.

[Alastor_Haven]

I'd use the Red/Knight for Melee

Unless it's Jagbroga sure it never misses but it's already over kill considering you can't even 1 shot 150+ mobs anymore except well HURR Sageeta and there bound to fix it sometime which well I don't know when haha

I'd use the Kaos / Knight on my gunner

Meh gunner has enough ATA as it is even though I still miss at times wouldn't really hurt

But that's my input

[Hrith]

Easier to obtain = yes.
Better on cast gunners = yes.

Otherwise Red / Knight remains largely better.

One adds a total of 260 to your stats, the other 435, it's basic mathematics.

[relentless]

^Agreed to what Alastor says.

[beatrixkiddo]

Luminus Kaos Knight will surely knock Red / Knight off its perch, mew mew!

[Kizeragi]

Cast Fighters would have a reason to use Kaos Knight, Seeing their ATA is quite high. But yeah, Red / Knight is mostly better, but I will prefer Kaos Knight because it is a little easier to get... moar DPS too maybe. :wacko:

[CelestialBlade]

If you're at max level, not a Wartecher, and not a Beast, go Kaos Knight. ATA is really blown out of proportion, I think the extra ATP is far more valuable. I know my Newman GT will be using one, but I'll probably stick with Red / Knight on my Beasts, if I can ever find one.

[beatrixkiddo]

Cast Fighters would have a reason to use Kaos Knight, Seeing their ATA is quite high. But yeah, Red / Knight mostly better, but I will prefer Kaos Knight because it doesnt drop in a rare mission ._.

Didn't you find and give away 2 or 3? Or were those like your pre-Lv160 Howzer Vijeri / Resist?

[Kizeragi]

Didn't you find and give away 2 or 3? Or were those like your pre-Lv160 Howzer Vijeri / Resist?

I found 1, and gave it away. (Hard to believe I know, but I don't care) Then one dropped in a friends game, he had called it, so I gave it to him.

I have the resist still, but theres no point in showing a pic now lol. And I'm not the only one that seen the drop.

[relentless]

*kicks bea and kiz in a bottomless Rust-pit* Here, have your way with Sparta. :wacko:

So from what I read here basically, it's Cast = Kaos and non-Cast = Red / Knight for the most part.

[Para]

I would use Red / Knight for almost all situations because a miss is a fail in my eyes but sometimes using different units for different situations are important.

Are you looking for landing hits like trying to land killer shot hits for the SE? Red Knight (but then again you would probably use a Cati / Bullet PP Save for that). However if you are doing a mixture, it doesn't hurt to have a Red/Knight as it helps all races with low ATA and players who are using PAs with low ATA mods.

Lumirus / Kaos is probably when you really need the DPS to get around.

[chicken105]

It'll make the prices go down on red/ knights JUST a LITTLE bit! It won't kill it, but make the red / knight less wanted then it is now. I plan on getting the kaos / knight for my guntecher and red / knight on my fighter.

[Ceresa]

Here in sunny Japan, where beasts are the least popular race, and casts are the most popular,

red/knight = 420m lowest (5 for sale~ the others are 500m, 700m, loveinferno+10 and meseta, agito 50% 5/10 or higher or 46%10/10)
kaooooorz = 20m lol

Yeah seems nearly everyone that already has a red/knight would rather use it then swap, or at least hold on to it and buy a spare kaos for playing Gunmaster, not a lot of people that think it's decisively better. Also worth noting with our recent update it's now easier then ever to get a rare map, but it sure doesn't make a difference in redknight availability...

The only red/knight killer is Cronos. Kaos is a temporary stepping stone to bridge the otherwise massive gap that is A rank power units and red/knight.

[Kizeragi]

It's suprising how Red / Knight is worth that much there though. I still personally reckon it's worth about 200mil maybe 250mil at a push.

Cronos will kill off Red / Knight, but who knows when that will be out. :l

[RegulusHikari]

I've already decided:

Kaos Knight for my Cast FG/GM
Vijerina Power for my Human FI/FM

Few less NUMBARZ doesn't bother me, especially if it means I get to spend a little less money/time getting Red Knight. Any boost up from Cati/SPS is cool with me.

[Xefi]

i'll stick with Kao for my fortegunner since
the minus ata does nothing to her.
I don't think Kao can kill Red/knight, at
least that's just my opinion.

Just like how Solid Power S and Solid/knight
are use, I wouldn't use Solid Power S on my
fortefighter because my beast is missing a lot
already on S2 missions; i dont want to put her
through more shameful moments anymore...

[magenta]

definitely hunt this when the mission comes out, even if i havent found red/knight by then.. move over WB and hello LB s2.
better atp for my human fem fortefighter, and ata loss would not affect me much, being a manic jabroga user with bil de axes and stuff. though using solid / power S havent really seen much 0s when using other pas and melee ata weps.

[Adriano]

and to think it only takes away 20 more ata than SPS, but more than DOUBLES the att gain.

[Arika]

Basically everybody who have Red/knight will use Red/knight first.
and Kaos/curseknight is made for those people who can't get Red/Knight. It is like a mercifulness from ST, not to let casual player far from hardcore too much.
To level high mob, even with Cast FF, they still miss way too much. For example, Majarra all 0 to Delsaban lv 170 on darkness event and then they slap you down lol.

[magenta]

Basically everybody who have Red/knight will use Red/knight first.
and Kaos/curseknight is made for those people who can't get Red/Knight. It is like a mercifulness from ST, not to let casual player far from hardcore too much.
To level high mob, even with Cast FF, they still miss way too much. For example, Majarra all 0 to Delsaban lv 170 on darkness event and then they slap you down lol.

thats weird, i never had any 0s using marjarra and sps on s2 mobs.. oh wait.. i use zodiarides

[beatrixkiddo]

thats weird, i never had any 0s using marjarra and sps on s2 mobs.. oh wait.. i use zodiarides

Level 170 deljabans have probably 2x more EVP than most mobs in our current S2s

[Arika]

thats weird, i never had any 0s using marjarra and sps on s2 mobs.. oh wait.. i use zodiarides

You haven't faced it yet.

[Alastor_Haven]

thats weird, i never had any 0s using marjarra and sps on s2 mobs.. oh wait.. i use zodiarides
Those 150+ mobs will make ANYONE miss and you sir aren't special

lol no zero's

Cmon

My Gunner with 1286 ATA gunner misses with a rifle and a shotgun that's depressing as hell

I use magristrate's w/e all the fucking time

[Syl]

Komazli's make me miss a lot >_>;

Er but yeah, these mobs definitely make anyone miss, even if its a bit more often, it's not negligible

[Eleina]

Lol Ata.

This discussion is almost like comparing a Mugunburgac to a mugunburga (Burgac would be red /knight and burga the kaos. In terms of att & acc). Sadly in this exemple everyone would favor mugunburga. That's how much ata means to people.

[Para]

I use magristrates all the time too now during solos and I still find some 0s popping out.

What's more annoying is that when you're playing a class that has some reliance on the knockdown/back for crowd control and you miss, monsters get free shots at you.

[IcE_JutSu]

The Red/Knight isnt useless to any classes just for the fact that it adds both ata and atp...its more of a personal preferance... ata can even help a gunner class 2... gunners still hit some zeros once in a while... u cant have 2 much ata anyway... :D

[Hrith]

People who go "lol ATA" or "I never see zeros" are usually the worst players.

As a cast Fortegunner, in those new S2 missions, my hit rate is barely over 80% with shotguns, crossbows and lasers.

1 miss out of 5 with the highest ATA in the game.

-100 ATA affects your DPS as much as -100 ATP, if not more, so the fighters/hybrids using L/KK over R/K will be reducing their own DPS on purpose, that's brilliant reasoning.

Like I said above, it's literally 435 vs 260, anyone who thinks 260 > 435 needs to take basic mathematics lessons again.

[Soukosa]

Enemy ATA grows at roughly 2.5 per level til lv 40. Then it grows by about 2 per level til 90. After that it just goes up roughly 3 per level til lv 150 (where the biblec stops) and presumably beyond. So by lv 160, stuff can have a hell of a lot of EVP (http://www.amesani.org/psu/pubbeta/mission/data.php?mission=1023&rank=5). When your ATA matches the target's EVP you have a 90% chance of landing a hit, so everyone's missing when going head on regardless of race, job, etc. Not surprising the least bit that a unit that adds ATA along with ATP is so desired.

[Eleina]

If Ata mattered so much why do techers complain about their damage so often?
They have a 100% Hit rate afterall..

And also learn to attack from behind, mobs have such poor AI that it's a simple task.

But we all know that the ATA subject has been debated over & over again. Just use the search function over the different forums to see the general conclusion. Only one person (Kef) has always stood by the importance of ATA and God knows how many times he has been proven wrong over the subject.

For Kef: instead of going by pure stat gains (435 vs 260) why not included PA mods? You'll soon see that the overall stat gain with kaos is more important.

[Xaeris]

On pure paper, I may be willing to accept that ATA from equipment is more important than ATP from equipment when you isolate them from other variables. But in practice, it doesn't work out. For one thing, such a statement assumes that all hits occur from the front. Now, I'm not delusional; I know full well it's not practical to run to the enemy's back for 100% of your attacks. However, the opportunity presents itself often and the natural motion of a skill can be manipulated to place you at the enemy's back (if you're not hitting *something* from behind with Majarra's 2nd and 3rd steps, you did it wrong). So on those hits, ATA has no effect. Basically, it's only working parttime.

The second is simple: all modifiers increase ATP. Most of them reduce ATA.

Third, and most importantly, sometimes, it doesn't matter if you miss or not. If the enemy would be slain by x amount of Majarra's hits, x being a number less than 'all of them.' While ATA certainly may have a marked effect on the total damage you deal over time, the real question should be, "how many skill steps were saved?" Between that, and the two questions above, I would surmise that the time saved is not nearly as great as Pillan's calculations would purport. Yeah, I read that thread in Guides. I just didn't feel like saying anything at the time.

[Hrith]

Only one person (Kef) has always stood by the importance of ATA and God knows how many times he has been proven wrong over the subject.Absolutely none.

In those Lv150+ missions, monsters' EVP increased by a lot more than our ATA did, not even mentioning Deljabans.


The ATP mods on photon arts may be higher than the ATA mods, the higher your damage is, the more a "0" lowers your DPS, proving me right, again.

[Eleina]

Absolutely none.Oh Sorry i forgot about how all those topics got locked and deleted mysteriously. o_o

[gryphonvii]

it'll be my acrotecher unit since ata isn't that important for AT

[magenta]

Those 150+ mobs will make ANYONE miss and you sir aren't special

lol no zero's

Cmon

My Gunner with 1286 ATA gunner misses with a rifle and a shotgun that's depressing as hell

I use magristrate's w/e all the fucking time



what level are we talking about
Im currently running wb with lv160 mobs, and i aint missing much with majarra.. rarely.
add that i might turn mostly Fightmaster with faster jabroga + freeze traps (lol) and im gonna be using that PA a lot more than i do now as FF

[LuigiMario]

I've use solid power on my beast for months so an extra -20 is nothing. And there are also armors that ad ACC (And AYP),

[Arika]

Which unit is better, just see the price compare in JP server is enough <,<.
Kaos-knight was made for people who don't have red/knight, because everybody can get kaos-knight.
snd ST put it in events for every casual player to have them.
It is alway the ST logic, where 50% S(1337 version) rank to max stat is rare rare rare!, while low % S rank(casual player version) is so easy to drop.
so most of the time, they alway make easy find version and hard find version of things, and only make hard one a bit better than easy one.

[pikachief]

I missed 7 times in a row with a shotgun before and with my gudda iggacs have over 1000 acc on the PA before as PT on my cast i've missed a full combo on lvl 100+ mobs!

i shall laugh at u FF's when we get higher level mobs in the future! ^^

[Indica]

Argue with this guy and try winning, lol



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGzWsfN3GTA

[Kumlekar]

*kicks bea and kiz in a bottomless Rust-pit* Here, have your way with Sparta. :wacko:

So from what I read here basically, it's Cast = Kaos and non-Cast = Red / Knight for the most part.

Newman probably would like the Kaos.

[GH499]

All the people who say ATA isn't good are the one who actually want Red/knight so badly and offer lots of things to trade one, while also saying that it is not worth here.

[Eleina]

Which unit is better, just see the price compare in JP server is enough <,<.
This must be the dumbest thought ever. Player shop prices do not and never will reflect what item is better than another
Exemple for extra slots: Paradi cataract = 100k in shops whereas Hard / Hp restore = 99mil. Strangely enough i'd rather use paradi than Hard / Hp on my cast. Same can be applied to red / force vs Har / quick or smart etc etc.

Price with reflect rarity not usefulness.

[Arika]

This must be the dumbest thought ever. Player shop prices do not and never will reflect what item is better than another
Exemple for extra slots: Paradi cataract = 100k in shops whereas Hard / Hp restore = 99mil. Strangely enough i'd rather use paradi than Hard / Hp on my cast. Same can be applied to red / force vs Har / quick or smart etc etc.

Price with reflect rarity not usefulness.

lol, we all know how you are trying so hard to cut the price down :p

you know what? comparison on Paradi and Hard/Hprestore is the stupidest ever!!
Are you going to continue it with spread/needleG vs Psychowand for next ?
LoL, only Cast can use Paradi, enough said, I never run into any Cast who use Hard/Hprestore before, nor that I ever run into a Beast that wear paradi :-? How can such a thing like this being compare?

Price reflect supply vs demand, Axe zagza[b] drop so much, and have so many high % running around than many other weapon type (eg. knuckle and twin dagger and etc, those non-FM weapons), yet people alway need it. The price are high when the demand highly call for it.
if price effect rairty more than use. Then, red/wall and red/force would go for higher price, Mila too.
Red/knight is not even on the top record of less drop item, but yet, it is the highest price item in JP now.

[Eleina]

Price reflect supply vs demand,You are right here! That's exactly what prices reflect. Nothing more and nothing else.
So I have no clue as to why you posted : "Which unit is better, just see the price compare in JP server is enough <,<.".
I'm pretty sure most people on the japan server got a Kaos / knight during that parum GBR and i'm also pretty sure many of those didn't get Red / Knight during the neudaiz GBR. Now if you have a Kaos / Knight already it's only natural that you won't go buy another <_< (Which leads to low prices on one and high prices on the other)

The bottom line is that using what ppl trade for an item to judge it's usefulness is silly. (Which you brilliantly did in your previous post)

(Totally off topic but you should take that 50% Repca offer and run away as fast as you can with it. I know i would just because of the existence of units like Kaos / Knight and vijeri / power)

[Arika]

The reason I posted that is because when everybody in JP server already got "Lumirus/Kaosknight" already, they still demand, and willingly to pay for very high amount of value item to get the "Red/knight"

This is clear enough that they would go for Red/knight as first priority.
the Lumirus/kaosknight is just for those who can't get red/knight to use. (a kindness from ST)

If the Kaos Knight is better than Red/knight, nobody will pay a lot to get it!!!
JP server are more of Elitist than our server, considering they all USE the 10/10 Kubara S rank gun, while our server alway use the Normal brand Gun for shiny look.
They aren't the type that want Red/knight for a collection, but they want it to use!, to replace their kaos knight! (nobody will pay 400 mil for something to keep in PM anyway)

Still remember the calculation graph of hitting rate I told you? That is it. when the ATA are too high, it is useless, but when ATA are too low from enemy EVA, they are so important.
Enemy alway have higher trend of increasing Eva than our Ata, while we gain high ATA by the helpfulness of high level buff. ...Now, as a soloer like you, you gain no AT buff. You haven't faced Delsabans, Gaosoran, Delsabers yet. you will know what is it like later. (WB monster alway have low EVA as it is.)
at the state where JP are at now, they have not enough ATA for majarra. Surely, it is not something big enough to make you lost the battle/ or fail the mission, but for those JP people who alway desire for the best gear, they know what they need.

(off the topic, but nah for that. because Red/knight in JP is at crisis enough for it to trade 5/10 Agito 50% already. Ask Ceresa for prove.)

[Alastor_Haven]

I do not like 2900 EVP deljaban's at mother brain xD

[AweOfShe]

Simple solution:

Fuck up their cars -
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z104/AweOfShe1/deljabancar.jpg

[Alastor_Haven]

LOL

hahaha

[Para]

Simple solution:

Fuck up their cars -
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z104/AweOfShe1/deljabancar.jpg

rofl nice cutting there ;P

[LuigiMario]

I prefer kaos Knight on my Beast.

[ashley50]

Why is this topic...so serious?

[Arika]

lol...Raiden,.. you made me think of...
http://www.gconsole.com/pushing/others/banners/whysoserious_01.jpg

[Gen2000]

Kaos will be better simply because of availability. At most like only a select few will own a Red/Knight in their PSU lifetime. Lightning Beast S2 will be there to spam hunt forever.

The ATA sting of Kaos will hurt a little like around the time when SPS first came out but then people will just hit the latest level cap and it won't matter that much.

I would prefer a Red/Knight myself but you got to be realistic. Bringing up Deljaban is tired, they always have too much damn evade anyways. If you're popping up so many donuts that it's actually slowing down your killing speed then simply just swap out to your other atp power unit.

[Indica]

Kaos will be better simply because of availability.

That's like saying Okarod will be better then Psycho Wand ...heh

[SEVENDUST]

All i know is that i want both 4 my CAST and beast, i can probably solo Scared Planet for that Unit hopefuly... the enemys are LV150 Crass Assassins are LV160 i should be able to solo with 2 npc`s on my LV140 beast Ff LV20.
:yes:

[Gen2000]

Not really, Psycho Wand drawfs every other rod besides a Chao Staff 10 which is both shortsighted for future MFs and also ugly to boot.

There is nothing comparable to it.

Kaos/Knight is comparable because they will be the two best arm units out until Chronos...only one doesn't have a low droprate in a rare mission.