What will beat a 10/10 Spread Needle/G?

[CHA0TIX]

Is there anything coming out that will be rarer?

Is there anything coming out that will be stronger?

I'm wondering if those with 10/10 Spread Needle/G's will one day be tossing them aside for somthing better.

What do you guys think? It this a good as it gets, or this there something else over the hill that's about to make these beauties look 2nd best.

[Alastor_Haven]

One: It is NOT the strongest gun

Two: A Shigga barec 10/10 Destroys it

Three: Highest variance of a shotgun

Four: A Shotguns ATP Doesn't mean shit but a small amount of damage

Calculations - >

I shall shed some light

Most gunners know ATP of a shotgun doesn't really make much of a difference
If you don't well go try it your self

- -

Caculations

I did some test

This test was done on Hive S2 Dark Satellite Pannons -

Bullet level is capped - Level 40 Light Shotgun bullet

Desta 4/10 - ATT: 125
Spread needle 10/10 - ATT: 235

Spread needles damage on pannons were about 700s to 715s
Desta's damage was about 670s to 680s

Spread needle has VARIANCE, and the highest

That gun is overrated

But I like the PP on mine so meh

In reality

Shiga barec 10/10

Wins

Wish I had orius here to caculate it as he has a 10/10

Oh well

[Syl]

I believe it's also been proven on the JP side why a Shigga Pakudac was better. I remember reading a reaaaally long and detailed thread about it on the official forums from someone who tested all of the shotguns and their ATP variances.

[CHA0TIX]

...blah...blah...blah...

Good thing I've got a Barec 10/10 too then...

[Alastor_Haven]

Alright

Then compare to me

I have a 10/10 Spread

And I guarantee you

Barec is stronger by far

[CHA0TIX]

so do i...

Both on my pallet at the same time.

Example, lvl 40 ice bullets yesterday, on that new run with the fire axe guys.

I was hitting less when switching to my Barec than with my spread.

(I switch to the Barec becasuse I think it looks cooler!)

[Syl]

so do i...

Both on my pallet at the same time.

Example, lvl 40 ice bullets yesterday, on that new run with the fire axe guys.

I was hitting less when switching to my Barec than with my spread.

(I switch to the Barec becasuse I think it looks cooler!)

I dunno, considering it might be best to test with both 10/10 guns on a non-resistant mob with many many shots and not just like 10. Multiple mob types/bullets etc. Screenies and whatnot too.

[CHA0TIX]

I dunno, considering it might be best to test with both 10/10 guns on a non-resistant mob with many many shots and not just like 10. Multiple mob types/bullets etc. Screenies and whatnot too.


Good idea. I will test tonight on a few runs. But I can't take screengrabs on my 360.

Hope I am wrong to be honest, i would love to do more dammage with the barec than the SN/G.

[Yunfa]

Have to agree wtih Haven on this one, my friend blew of his entire savings for a 8/8 Spread Needle, yet it only does about 30~ more damage compared to his 10/10 Desta. And the only reason he started wanting a Spead Needle was some kid made fun of him for not having it, but upon checking the kid has Shotgun bullets in the 10s, while his was all 40s.

To me bullet lvls > the extra stacks he spent on the extra now known to us as only 30 damage more, o well, at least he has gloating powers.

[amtalx]

I'm willing to hear any arguments about how awesome a Barec is...but all Alastor proved is that a 10/10 SNG does more damage than a 4/10 Baret. :confused: You also have to take 0s into account. When comparing weapons.

[Gen2000]

Yeah, Spread Needle G is the "strongest" Shotgun at the moment.

@10 grinds
Spread Needle G - 235
Shigga Pakudec - 212

- from PSOW weapon db/Psupedia

Judging by the history of power by grind from Kubara to originals, the original Spread Needle may beat it but who knows when that'll release and who'll be around to care for it by then.

Anyways, any gunner this late in the game should know by now the Shotgun ATP means jack **** really, it'll still take the same number of shots to kill something with a Spread Needle as even a Desta, the bulk of your power comes from your character's base ATP and PA levels. However if you got the money to waste on a Spread Needle 10 and actually prefer the look of it then by all means.

I think Spread Needle looks kind of ugly and rather use Shigga Pakuda myself for it's blinding bullets which also seems to also double-hit (more important than a few ATP gains imo) the easiest out of any shotgun. Until then Desta still looks the best to me.

[Kizeragi]

Yeah, Spread Needle G is the "strongest" Shotgun at the moment.

@10 grinds
Spread Needle G - 235
Shigga Pakudec - 212

- from PSOW weapon db/Psupedia

Judging by the history of power by grind from Kubara to originals, the original Spread Needle may beat it but who knows when that'll release and who'll be around to care for it by then.

Anyways, any gunner this late in the game should know by now the Shotgun ATP means jack **** really, it'll still take the same number of shots to kill something with a Spread Needle as even a Desta, the bulk of your power comes from your character's base ATP and PA levels. However if you got the money to waste on a Spread Needle 10 and actually prefer the look of it then by all means.

I think Spread Needle looks kind of ugly and rather use Shigga Pakuda myself for it's blinding bullets which also seems to also double-hit (more important than a few ATP gains imo) the easiest out of any shotgun. Until then Desta still looks the best to me.

The variance on the Spread Needle/G makes it's damage really quite random. I usually hit between 630-710 with it (Level 131 Human fG, Level 40 Bullet) so Pakudec will be overall more effective than the SN/G.

I too would rather use the Pakuda because of the bullet. xD

And I agree that Desta is still by far the best looking.

[Hrith]

Yeah, Spread Needle G is the "strongest" Shotgun at the moment.

@10 grinds
Spread Needle G - 235
Shigga Pakudec - 212

- from PSOW weapon db/PsupediaYou really did not read all that was said on ATP variance, huh?

First thing, the ATP of SN/G varies enough to make it weaker than Shigga Pakudec.
Then you have to keep in mind other aspects of weapons, such as the size of bullets, in this case. Bigger bullets mean you will hit more easily, and in the case of shotguns, you will hit two targets with the same bullet more easily.

Conclusion, Shigga Baret (and Shigga Pakuda) will kill faster than Kubara knock-offs or Spread Needle/G.

[Gen2000]

Huh?
- Noticed strongest was in ""s.
- I only list both of those ATP between Spread and Parudec @ 10 since they were mentioned earlier and wanted to get out of the way how it doesn't make a difference.
- I know about ATP variance.
- You basically saying the same thing I said earlier about doublehit (I even commented on how I find it more important than raw ATP stats earlier)

[Shadwitz]

You really did not read all that was said on ATP variance, huh?

First thing, the ATP of SN/G varies enough to make it weaker than Shigga Pakudec.
Then you have to keep in mind other aspects of weapons, such as the size of bullets, in this case. Bigger bullets mean you will hit more easily, and in the case of shotguns, you will hit two targets with the same bullet more easily.

Conclusion, Shigga Baret (and Shigga Pakuda) will kill faster than Kubara knock-offs or Spread Needle/G.

As for ATP Variance, the damage differences between many shotguns is marginal at best. It's the bullet levels where you get the real power. I'll continue using my Spread Needle/Gs because I honestly prefer the look to a Desta or Baret.

As for bullet size, more often than not, most shotgun users that I've seen in action tend to point blank, rendering bullet size... rather moot. Admittedly, SN/G does have a very small bullet compared to Desta and Baret. I'll most likely invest in a Pakuda when they do hit our servers, but that doesn't mean I'll abandon my needles.

[Arika]

Barec won't beat spread needle unless you consider the factor of "cheap"

However, for sure, I can say that the 12* kubara can beat it.

[Adriano]

http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=84844&highlight=spread+needle++sng
In that thread it was determined a Barec at 10 is as good if notbetter than a SN/G at +9.

[Eleina]

Shotgun variance is the biggest joke known to man.
Even if a Spread Needle G had 15% atp variance that is only a whopping 35atp lol...
Hell the ATA diff between a 10/10 barec and 10/10 SN/G probably means more than all this variance BS xD.

[Adriano]

I'm still waiting for pics, in my thread on the boards. ;|

[DreXxiN]

Shotgun variance is the biggest joke known to man.
Even if a Spread Needle G had 15% atp variance that is only a whopping 35atp lol...
Hell the ATA diff between a 10/10 barec and 10/10 SN/G probably means more than all this variance BS xD.

THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS

SDFJKLSDFS FUCK

EXACTLY GUYS. ATP ISNT EVERYTHING

I'll take my 255 Acc needle guys thanks. <3 no 0's

[Kizeragi]

I'll take my 255 Acc needle guys thanks. <3 no 0's

That would be the same for me,
plus unless you have a certain setup of clothes/parts, the Barec looks pretty lame. (The bullets too)

I only wanted to get 2/3 SN/G's to +6/x for the PP, I dont care about the attack.
1500ish PP is surely enough for a shotgun right? :l

[Neith]

PP is the only stat that really matters. I stopped using a Desta because I would frequently burn it out. While Photon Charges are cheap, I don't see the point in wasting them when I can use a Barec, only lose a tiny amount of damage for the sake of hundreds more PP.

ATA doesn't matter on Shotguns either (or anything, for that matter >_>)

[Hrith]

As for bullet size, more often than not, most shotgun users that I've seen in action tend to point blank, rendering bullet size... rather moot.This makes me wonder if you really use shotguns.
The size of the bullet matters in ANY situation, especially point blank.

Bullet size is the most important aspect of shotguns, more than PP, ATP or ATA.



Shotgun variance is the biggest joke known to man.
Even if a Spread Needle G had 15% atp variance that is only a whopping 35atp lol...Not when comparing it to Shigga Pakudec, then.
People saying SN/G is better because it deals 10 more damage than Shigga Baret is a good argument, but people saying Shigga Pakudec is better because it deals 10 more damage than SN/G are nubs. Gotta love double standards.

[Shadwitz]

This makes me wonder if you really use shotguns.
The size of the bullet matters in ANY situation, especially point blank.

Bullet size is the most important aspect of shotguns, more than PP, ATP or ATA.

I do, and my level 40 bullets are insulted. What game do you play that you can hit multiple monsters when you're at point blank?

[Arika]

If you like the size of bullet, Go to Shigga Pakuda
but if you like the best what majority people say then, go to Shigga Pakudac.

[R2D6battlebot]

For the OP, the answer to question 2 really doesn't make any difference in this game at all, it's way too 'easy-mode' to really give two shits about a few points of damage.

HOWEVER, it definitely seems like the answer to question #1 is - No, Spread 10/10 seems like the rarest for a long, LONG time.

[amtalx]

I do, and my level 40 bullets are insulted. What game do you play that you can hit multiple monsters when you're at point blank?

That is was gives Shotguns a lot of their power. Shotgun bullets do splash damage, albeit a very small splash.

Also, I have doubts about the size of the bullet meaning anything. Did ST really incorporate different collision models for each rare shotgun? I'm willing to accept this, but I'm going to need more than anecdotal evidence. I can tell you my SNG hits like Jabroga, but that doesn't make it true.

[NeoTeppin]

I do, and my level 40 bullets are insulted. What game do you play that you can hit multiple monsters when you're at point blank?

I seem to be playing PSU im not sure what uve been playing lately but ive noticed when im point blank on small monsters u can hit multiple enemies with large shots, as opposed to one enemy with small shots.

[DreXxiN]

I seem to be playing PSU im not sure what uve been playing lately but ive noticed when im point blank on small monsters u can hit multiple enemies with large shots, as opposed to one enemy with small shots.

No :O

[Dakkon]

Weapon Att only makes for an ever decreasing % of your total damage, and in the case of Shotguns, the second weakest weapon on Att stat in the game, the influence of the weapon Att is minimal and its diminishing returns start to show earlier.

Why?

Given a common Fortegunner (ok we could take Protranser, there is'nt a big difference either) profile, like 140/20 Male Cast Fortegunner, we get a base ATP of 1544, 1689 with the SPS, but let's also forget about that to emphasize the importance of the base and don't sound contradictory, as the SPS or Cati Power adds an ATP similar of that of a Shotgun Att, which could derive in a "then power units mean nothing too", which is a different debate since the power unit affects your base and thus every one of your weapons. Back on topic, Shotgun Att on the most common user, 140/20 M C fG.

Now let's take two shotguns, and a very different pair, and also let's give the Spread even more advantage ignoring the damage variance & bullet size issues:
-An almighty, so dreamed, "I masturbate looking at numbers on a little grey card in my inventory screen": Spread Needle/G 10/10 'Att. 235 (1779)' on the mentioned gunner.
-A cheap, badassly elegant, everydoghasapair, "omgz yu r such a n00b uzin that shit": Shigga Desta 5/X 'Att. 128(1672)'

So 1779 - 1672 = 107 ...wow!, no, wait, 107 on 1544, a 6,9% of your total ATP, just WOW!! Now apply the damage formula and be amazed of your white numbers difference on the field.


I don't know you, but I do imagine better things to do with the hundreds of millions that toy costs, than improving my Shotgun damage by an ever shrinking 6,9%, as the higher we go on the level cap, the higher the base ATP, the less the weapon Att affects your performance. And remember, this was calculated without a power unit, so no need to wait for a new lvl cap, equipping your unit is already decreasing that percent right now.


END.

[-Jet-]

When it comes to guns, your base ATP and the elemental percentage on your art are basically the only things that matter until the kaos knight releases..