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View Full Version : grove of fanatics slow-downs



fay
Oct 22, 2008, 08:27 AM
not sure if thats what the level is called but im sure you guys know which one im talking about.

i started doing this mission lately and as usuall i find out that this level offers some of PSUs finest moments, though not all are good.
in this case its the death to the 360 slowdown.
didnt have a clue about it on this level which is rather pissing me off at the moment tbh.

how much variations of this map have the slowdown and if any of you PSU gurus have any info on describing which map has the slowdown it will be appreciated.

PSUpedia has nothing on it.

i dont have a PSUpedia account so as another favour would one of you be able to start a new page on PSU pedia or ask one of the mods/admin of it to add a new page. ave this page purely on all the slowdown maps in the game and a description of which ones they are

im sure this writer of this page would be much respected among the PSU community





EDIT IN

its ok guys. i found out which map is the bugged one and when it triggers

on PSUpedias page fopor that level. the bugged variation is B1. the time of slowdown happens on the second spawn of block 2. the enemys at this time of spawn is 5 or 6 of those blue robots.

same time same variation a few times now. for any non believers still then feel free to check =]

also normal box has blizzard pop, homemade cake, rice cake and tear of light. not just blizzard pop

ThEoRy
Oct 22, 2008, 08:33 AM
http://psupedia.info/Grove_of_Fanatics

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 08:55 AM
yea like i said though. it doesnt mention anything about the dodgy route

Arada
Oct 22, 2008, 09:09 AM
All routes feature robots. So all routes feature slowdown.

joefro
Oct 22, 2008, 09:14 AM
All routes feature robots. So all routes feature slowdown.

Not every map has slowdown.

To OP, why don't you search the forums? This topic has been covered many times.

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 09:18 AM
no its not.
iv done a few runs so as far as i know there are 9 map variations to this area. iv had most of them but only 1 so far as kicked off the slowdown.

i know its the robots programming that starts it which would make logical sense that it hapens all the time but it only seems to trigger when the robot programming clashes with the spawn area.

i say this because i have observed this with other maps. sacred stream for example. out of the 9 variations 4 of these maps will trigger the slowdown.
if im not mistaken there is 1 or 2 of the maps on desert goliath which triggers it aswell. one being a rare map

joefro - i know it has been covered many times. i searched however i couldnt find a topic relating to this level

ThEoRy
Oct 22, 2008, 09:19 AM
I believe its the red robots, Bysha type-Koh21, which cause the slowdown. So yeah, it is "mentioned" on the page. Whichever maps have the red robots will cause slowdown.

Only maps B-1 and C-3 are without the slowdown inducing Bysha type-Koh21.

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 09:25 AM
not to sound ignorant or anything but all maps have red robots at some point lol.

but also most people believe it to be the blue robots but it is either of them. its just when the robot code hit the spawn code wrong causing a loop in the code which just slows down eventually as its stuck forever in it :/

ThEoRy
Oct 22, 2008, 09:37 AM
not to sound ignorant or anything but all maps have red robots at some point lol.

but also most people believe it to be the blue robots but it is either of them. its just when the robot code hit the spawn code wrong causing a loop in the code which just slows down eventually as its stuck forever in it :/

At this point you sound more obstinate than ignorant. Besides there is nothing you can do about the slowdown other than reboot your 360 every few runs.

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 09:47 AM
At this point you sound more obstinate than ignorant. Besides there is nothing you can do about the slowdown other than reboot your 360 every few runs.

i know :(. reason im so annoyed with this is the rebooting in the sence. i dont mind rebooting but as you know yourself. the 360 has a bad reputation for red ring of death.
this is caused by the heatsink paste on the 360s CPU to wear away. one reason is turning the 360 on and off a lot causing the metal to expand etc. extensive use of that is more likly to cause more wear casuing red ring of death

funny how i made it sound like PSU is the cause of red ring of death lmao

i suppose ill keep playing just now. to bad my characters suck at this level =[

ThEoRy
Oct 22, 2008, 10:01 AM
Sorry to hear that. But hey what can you do. It happens on Desert Goliath as well so a lot of people shy away from these two missions because of this. Unfortunate really because I do enjoy the Groves as it was a nice bow hunting spot for a long while. Can't wait for the S3 mission there!

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 10:09 AM
while on the topic of grove of fanatices. if any of you have a PSUpedia account you could update it with this.

it says normal box has bilzzard pop

so far iv found these though:
blizzard pop
homemade cake
rice cake
tear of light - yup another place to go hunting now :D

System-Id
Oct 22, 2008, 10:24 AM
Not a good run for fighters.
Greatest way to dominate that map is to
use Killer Shot and Megid.
Killer shot for robots sooo FG will be class of choice
bring along a Dark Muktrand for boss =]

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 10:35 AM
its ok guys. i found out which map is the bugged one and when it triggers

on PSUpedias page fopor that level. the bugged variation is B1. the time of slowdown happens on the second spawn of block 2. the enemys at this time of spawn is 5 or 6 of those blue robots.

same time same variation a few times now. for any non believers still then feel free to check =]

probabaly best i update the first post with this actually

Apone
Oct 22, 2008, 10:42 AM
Instead of a straight up re-boot quitting to the dashboard and restarting the game without turning off the system cures any slow down problems I may incur. It works in my case and I dont have to power down the machine.

EspioKaos
Oct 22, 2008, 10:48 AM
while on the topic of grove of fanatices. if any of you have a PSUpedia account you could update it with this.

it says normal box has bilzzard pop

so far iv found these though:
blizzard pop
homemade cake
rice cake
tear of light - yup another place to go hunting now :D

On the Homemade Cake, which one is it: 4★ (heartwarming treat) or 5★ (Maya's death cake)? Just want to make sure I add the correct item to the drop template.

EDIT: Just checked on the JP wiki, and it looks like it should be Maya's version, the 5★ one.

fay
Oct 22, 2008, 11:27 AM
ah my games turned off just now so im not 100% about which one it is. ill check when i get back from work (11 pm central)


to apone. i tried that once. it didnt work. virst view gave me thoughts that it did because i was in my room but the next level i went to it started again :(
maby it depends on how bad the slowdown damage was. like it gets worse the longer your in the level.
i done it when i was almost at a standstill from sacred stream

mvffin
Oct 22, 2008, 12:18 PM
I haven't had slowdown at Grove in a LONG time.
-If you get red robots on the left (either map with a path split), abandon.
-If you get the locked door on the right, and newmans in the back room, abandon.

Desert Goliath:
-2 Blue Casts at start, abandon.
-4 robots at start, abandon.

Since avoiding these maps, I have gotten zero slowdown. Easy rules to learn. I still haven't got any good drops though. = (

Turb0
Oct 22, 2008, 02:38 PM
I've gotten slowdown on like 4 or 5 maps at Grove so I just avoid it now. I've seen a few people's "slowdown maps" but it seems like I get it more than that. Needle Cannon's not that great anyway so w/e.

desturel
Oct 22, 2008, 05:24 PM
http://psupedia.info/Grove_of_Fanatics

Map A-2 will ALWAYS initiate slowdown in Grove of Fanatics. If you turn right on that map and see 3 Otsu32 instead of 6, abandon.

Map C-3 also causes slowdown, but only some of the time. You can do map C-3 and abandon on the second block if the first robot spawn (Koh21) is silent, or you could just abandon on the first block to avoid it all together.

If you abandon map A-2, be aware that maps C-2 and B-2 can sometimes have slowdown right from the first block and need to be abandoned. Be sure to listen to the robots. People who turn off sound effects, should probably not run grove of fanatics (or Sacred Stream or Desert Goliath or Train Rescue etc).

Grove is a pretty easy map to avoid slowdown on. The only times I ever get it are on the C-3 maps since I tend to run them (C-3 is mostly Koh21 so lots of chances for Hirokteri... if you still want one of those things. ;) )

If you are just running boss boxes and not looking for more [B] Creasaud, just avoid A-2 and C-3 and you should be fine.

Africa
Oct 22, 2008, 07:59 PM
the homemade cake is maya's death cake.But as to only certain maps only causing lag you guys are wrong.it can happen on all grove variations. it seems that there's a lower chance on other maps but it's almost guaranteed if you do enough runs you'll get it there regardless of map layouts.I would really like to know how they came up with safe maps at grove just laughable.

chicken105
Oct 22, 2008, 09:00 PM
I run GOF alot, idk if it was said yet, but
A-2 is a bad map.
Then on C variant is pink robots on the left. (90% sure)
Somewhere in A or B (pretty sure it's A) there is 1 map variant that sometimes gives you slowdown and sometimes not.

SegaSpyder
Oct 22, 2008, 09:36 PM
It doesn't really matter what variation you run because it is the robots that always have something different from all the others. Case in point; the Bysha type-Otsu32, Gohma Methna and GSM-05M Seekers are the ones for the cause of the slow down build up. It's a memory leak that just feeds into the ram of the 360 so once your ram is full of the data it can't get ride of it. Which gives you the slow down. I've written to Sega a few times, but still no solid answer of if they are working on it or not, probably not. Also, it's how I found out that it is definitely a memory leek not just a certain map type because every map, wether it be Train Rescue, Desert Goliath, Grove of Fanatics, Sacred Steam, Endrum Remnants, or even the new mission Flowery Pursuit the problem still arrises. So just do as we all do, we the crazy lovers of those missions, run until it slows down then dash board, restart and repeat. lol Oh yeah, and hope you don't get one of the rare runs either, forest and caves that is because seeing those missions with slow down is the worst.

dexter_safe
Oct 22, 2008, 09:59 PM
i bet the maps that have slowdown have the best drops lol. prolly not =P

mvffin
Oct 22, 2008, 11:44 PM
But as to only certain maps only causing lag you guys are wrong.it can happen on all grove variations. it seems that there's a lower chance on other maps but it's almost guaranteed if you do enough runs you'll get it there regardless of map layouts.I would really like to know how they came up with safe maps at grove just laughable.

I've done 10-15 runs in a row more than once with no problem. See above where I stated which maps I don't run.

desturel
Oct 23, 2008, 12:10 AM
It doesn't really matter what variation you run because it is the robots that always have something different from all the others. Case in point; the Bysha type-Otsu32, Gohma Methna and GSM-05M Seekers are the ones for the cause of the slow down build up.

This is bad information that just makes people more paranoid of the issue than they need to be.

Yes the robots do cause slowdown. Yes it does build up overtime, however 90% of the problem is the MAP that initiates the slowdown. If you abandon on the bad map and only do the good maps, chances are good that you won't have any slowdown.

It's not a steady rate of decline from the time you step into any robot mission, it's a bug that initiates because of certain conditions and continues from that point on. This is why you can do 40 Desert Goliath while avoiding 2 maps and never have slow down. The same if you do 40 runs of Grove while avoiding the two bad maps.

To just try and pin it on a certain robot is silly. You say that Otsu32 (blue robots) always cause slowdown at a steady rate, however the second bad map for Grove of Fanatics, C-3, the slowdown initiates on the second block in the third spawn. There are no Otsu32 on that map until the third block. It is all Armed Servants and Koh21 (red robots) on the first two blocks.

Not only that, but map C-3 is a map that only occasionally initiates slowdown, meaning that there is some factor from other maps that you play that come to affect the next map on that you run.

Meanwhile a known good Grove map, A-1, has tons of Otsu32. There are six of them when you head to the right and the entire first block is Otsu32 and Armed Servants. The second block is mostly Otsu32 and Koh21 (actually I think this is the map that has only Otsu and Koh on Block two.)

In addition to A-1 other good maps with Otsu32 are every variation of the B map, all maps with Otsu32 in Forest Infiltration, and all maps on Flowery Pursuit.

The problem with Flowery Pursuit is NOT related to the robot issue. It is NOT robot slowdown. This is poor map design which also plagues Egg Theives, Scared Planet, Lightning Beasts, Sakura Blast, The Dark God, and parts of The Black Nest.

The fact that people, such as yourself spread this type of misunderstanding is why so many people get confused about what is going on.

At one point I began to map out bad Sacred Stream maps, however no one seemed to care so I didn't bother. I know what maps are good there, so I only run those maps. (5 out of 9 variations I've confirmed are good, but I can't be bothered to learn if the other 4 are good or not).

Similarly you state GSM-05 Seekers cause slowdown no matter what. This completely contradicts what really happens. If Seekers always caused issues, you would not be able to run Military Subway or Endrum Remnants, but there are no problems with slowdown on those maps.

There are only two bad maps on Desert Goliath. One of the maps initiates with GSM-05M Tirentos (orange lined robots) , not the GSM-05 Seeker (pink lined robots). Map A-1 according to PSUpedia. The other map starts Special Ops.(Kahnone). An un-numbered C map on PSUpedia, but it also happens to be the starting spawn of the rare variation of the map.

Should you not believe me, please feel free to join me at Grove or Desert Goliath. We can run either mission as often as you like abandoning on the bad maps and running good maps until you finally realize that there is a pattern to the issue and cease spreading false information.

As for Endrum Remnants and Military Subway, you can run those on your own time. There is one map in Endrum Remnants where the robots loose sound, which is the first sign of the slowdown, however there are not enough robots on this particular map to have the slowdown affect you in any large manner, even after 20+ runs.

These are things I have learned from running these maps repeatedly and paying attention. Not just randomly saying "Oh well, must be the blue robots that cause all my troubles".

So for the cliff notes version:
Grove has 1 bad map and 1 sometimes bad map. The bad map affects other maps so be sure to listen for robot sounds after abandoning the bad map.

Desert Goliath has 2 bad maps. The bad maps do not affect other maps unless you start destroying robots in the bad maps.

Endrum Remnants has 1 bad map, but you do not need to abandon it.

Flowery Pursuit does not have a robot slowdown issue, but a map issue. Poor designed pixy-mapping / reskinning of the Mizuraki CD (Demons Above, Moonlight Beast) area cause substantial area slowdown. You don't need to restart your Xbox. You just need to go to a different mission. Restarting your xbox won't fix this mission either. It will always have the at point slowdown.

Train Rescue and Sacred Stream I haven't bother mapping beyond 4 or 5 known good maps for me. Since few people run these missions, I haven't bothered trying to figure out which are the "really" bad maps and which maps are just affected by the map you run prior. Sort of like Groves "sometimes bad" map.

You can run Military Subway all day and night, you should not get slowdown from this map unless you come from another slowdown map (like Grove, DG, SS, or TR) in which case it will add to the slowdown.

If anyone wants to learn the Grove or Desert Goliath maps, I'm willing to show them. They are easy to learn since there are only two of them each unlike Train Rescue and Sacred Stream which have multiple maps with multiple factors.

fay
Oct 23, 2008, 09:41 AM
This is bad information that just makes people more paranoid of the issue than they need to be.

Yes the robots do cause slowdown. Yes it does build up overtime, however 90% of the problem is the MAP that initiates the slowdown. If you abandon on the bad map and only do the good maps, chances are good that you won't have any slowdown.

It's not a steady rate of decline from the time you step into any robot mission, it's a bug that initiates because of certain conditions and continues from that point on. This is why you can do 40 Desert Goliath while avoiding 2 maps and never have slow down. The same if you do 40 runs of Grove while avoiding the two bad maps.

To just try and pin it on a certain robot is silly. You say that Otsu32 (blue robots) always cause slowdown at a steady rate, however the second bad map for Grove of Fanatics, C-3, the slowdown initiates on the second block in the third spawn. There are no Otsu32 on that map until the third block. It is all Armed Servants and Koh21 (red robots) on the first two blocks.

Not only that, but map C-3 is a map that only occasionally initiates slowdown, meaning that there is some factor from other maps that you play that come to affect the next map on that you run.

Meanwhile a known good Grove map, A-1, has tons of Otsu32. There are six of them when you head to the right and the entire first block is Otsu32 and Armed Servants. The second block is mostly Otsu32 and Koh21 (actually I think this is the map that has only Otsu and Koh on Block two.)

In addition to A-1 other good maps with Otsu32 are every variation of the B map, all maps with Otsu32 in Forest Infiltration, and all maps on Flowery Pursuit.

The problem with Flowery Pursuit is NOT related to the robot issue. It is NOT robot slowdown. This is poor map design which also plagues Egg Theives, Scared Planet, Lightning Beasts, Sakura Blast, The Dark God, and parts of The Black Nest.

The fact that people, such as yourself spread this type of misunderstanding is why so many people get confused about what is going on.

At one point I began to map out bad Sacred Stream maps, however no one seemed to care so I didn't bother. I know what maps are good there, so I only run those maps. (5 out of 9 variations I've confirmed are good, but I can't be bothered to learn if the other 4 are good or not).

Similarly you state GSM-05 Seekers cause slowdown no matter what. This completely contradicts what really happens. If Seekers always caused issues, you would not be able to run Military Subway or Endrum Remnants, but there are no problems with slowdown on those maps.

There are only two bad maps on Desert Goliath. One of the maps initiates with GSM-05M Tirentos (orange lined robots) , not the GSM-05 Seeker (pink lined robots). Map A-1 according to PSUpedia. The other map starts Special Ops.(Kahnone). An un-numbered C map on PSUpedia, but it also happens to be the starting spawn of the rare variation of the map.

Should you not believe me, please feel free to join me at Grove or Desert Goliath. We can run either mission as often as you like abandoning on the bad maps and running good maps until you finally realize that there is a pattern to the issue and cease spreading false information.

As for Endrum Remnants and Military Subway, you can run those on your own time. There is one map in Endrum Remnants where the robots loose sound, which is the first sign of the slowdown, however there are not enough robots on this particular map to have the slowdown affect you in any large manner, even after 20+ runs.

These are things I have learned from running these maps repeatedly and paying attention. Not just randomly saying "Oh well, must be the blue robots that cause all my troubles".

So for the cliff notes version:
Grove has 1 bad map and 1 sometimes bad map. The bad map affects other maps so be sure to listen for robot sounds after abandoning the bad map.

Desert Goliath has 2 bad maps. The bad maps do not affect other maps unless you start destroying robots in the bad maps.

Endrum Remnants has 1 bad map, but you do not need to abandon it.

Flowery Pursuit does not have a robot slowdown issue, but a map issue. Poor designed pixy-mapping / reskinning of the Mizuraki CD (Demons Above, Moonlight Beast) area cause substantial area slowdown. You don't need to restart your Xbox. You just need to go to a different mission. Restarting your xbox won't fix this mission either. It will always have the at point slowdown.

Train Rescue and Sacred Stream I haven't bother mapping beyond 4 or 5 known good maps for me. Since few people run these missions, I haven't bothered trying to figure out which are the "really" bad maps and which maps are just affected by the map you run prior. Sort of like Groves "sometimes bad" map.

You can run Military Subway all day and night, you should not get slowdown from this map unless you come from another slowdown map (like Grove, DG, SS, or TR) in which case it will add to the slowdown.

If anyone wants to learn the Grove or Desert Goliath maps, I'm willing to show them. They are easy to learn since there are only two of them each unlike Train Rescue and Sacred Stream which have multiple maps with multiple factors.

ill do some runs of grove with you if you play 360 side. i kinda wanna get a needle cannon so that will keep me buzy for a while.
i can learn these bad map same time =]

desturel
Oct 23, 2008, 10:16 AM
ill do some runs of grove with you if you play 360 side. i kinda wanna get a needle cannon so that will keep me buzy for a while.
i can learn these bad map same time =]

What time do you normally run? I'm on from 8pm until 12am EST most days. I normally just stick to whatever universe the server logs me onto.

Yup, on 360 or I wouldn't be affected by the wonderful robot slowdown. :P

fay
Oct 23, 2008, 11:21 AM
i dont realy have any set time im on lol. im on a lot though. when ever im not working or in college im on.
best way to know is add my gamertag. it should be in my sig hopefully.

im central time btw

i double checked that home made cake guys.
the jap get different from us. you said they got the 5* one but i just found the 4* =]

chicken105
Oct 23, 2008, 02:19 PM
It doesn't really matter what variation you run because it is the robots that always have something different from all the others.
Then explain why I can fight pink robots in some maps and not others. Explain the same with desert goliath. Let's hear it.