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View Full Version : Q: Photon charge update, why??



HyperShot-X-
Nov 20, 2008, 01:50 PM
http://psupedia.info/Longterm_schedule#Item_modifications
"Item modifications
-Photon Charges will be modified so that when used from the action palette on two single-handed weapons, instead of replenishing only 50% of the max PP of each weapon, it will refill all PP for each weapon."

Is there a valid reason why this update is so important and necessary for some players other than it makes the game even easier than it already is?
I'm curious to hear your honest thoughts on this?
(tried forum search but couldn't find topic on this...)

SStrikerR
Nov 20, 2008, 01:53 PM
Does it really matter that much to you guys that you have to use 2 charges when you have that many with you at one time? Seriously, that's why they're so cheap in shops. If you burn through all your charges without double charging, lay off the spamspamspamspam. If you have spares, use them. It's not much of a loss if you have to buy 10 after a mission, that's less than a block's worth of a meseta.

stukasa
Nov 20, 2008, 02:19 PM
The reason is that it's annoying when you want to refill your (insert weapon name here) but since you're using two single-handed weapons, it only fills each one up half way. For example, if I have a wand in my right hand and a card fan in my left hand and I only want to refill my wand PP, I either have to unequip the card fan or use two charges.

It's not a big deal but I think it makes sense.

CelestialBlade
Nov 20, 2008, 02:19 PM
I don't see how this makes the game so much "easier", to me this is more of a convenience. I like it personally, as a user of mostly one-handed ranged weaponry.

RAGNAGELPPOD
Nov 20, 2008, 02:26 PM
I'm not THAT crappy of a player but I'd like to have this update. It would be quite convinient.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't know how to measure a player skill level in this game anyway...I mean is it how well you can just attack majarra with your 40+ harpoon? Or How well you can defend yourself with a 2* saber?

Dragwind
Nov 20, 2008, 02:29 PM
This is pretty nifty for dual wielders and acro classes. It's annoying to go into your menu during battle and use a photon charge on each weapon individually if you want to fill them both up. You also use double the charges that way. It allows for a PP advantage of sorts to dual wielding.

SStrikerR
Nov 20, 2008, 02:58 PM
Oops, didn't see dragwind's post.

Cracka_J
Nov 20, 2008, 03:01 PM
lol at this making the game easier, it's pretty simple thinking that when you use a charge, you'd want something at least filled up. The way it's currently set up, the charge is divided between the two weapons.

Really, I'd be happy either with this change, or they made it so the active weapon in use is the one that gets filled completely. That would be fine by me as well.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 20, 2008, 03:04 PM
The reason is that it's annoying when you want to refill your (insert weapon name here) but since you're using two single-handed weapons, it only fills each one up half way. For example, if I have a wand in my right hand and a card fan in my left hand and I only want to refill my wand PP, I either have to unequip the card fan or use two charges.

It's not a big deal but I think it makes sense.

agreed it's only minor tweak in gameplay that could be convinient for some cases, but you do know that there are 2 different ways to use photon charge on weps from main menu: 1)select photon charge 1st then use on wep of choice or 2)select wep 1st to refill pp w/ photon charge. It makes sense to me that it's part of the game to balance out pp usage on both single-handed weps and 1 photon charge only would not fill up both weps completely if used from the action pallet for their own convenience.

What doesn't make sense to me is that there are actually quite a few ppl listing this as the most wanted update they would like to see on that update feedback thread on official site. Does it really matter that much or do they just don't know what they want to get on future updates?
You know it's one thing that Segac doesn't make sense to us players from time to time but it's another that we players don't even understand each other playing the same game. :/

RedCoKid
Nov 20, 2008, 03:11 PM
http://psupedia.info/Longterm_schedule#Item_modifications
"Item modifications
-Photon Charges will be modified so that when used from the action palette on two single-handed weapons, instead of replenishing only 50% of the max PP of each weapon, it will refill all PP for each weapon."

Is there a valid reason why this update is so important and necessary for some players other than it makes the game even easier than it already is?
I'm curious to hear your honest thoughts on this?
(tried forum search but couldn't find topic on this...)
The current system was designed with the assumption that people wielding two weapons at a time would use both equally, so 1 charge filling both halfway would fairly balance this play style against playing with a single two-handed weapon. However, any two weapons rarely deplete at the same rate, especially with a class like acrotecher that has an uneven balance of healing vs. attacking. In the heat of battle, you have to use 2 charges or instead run around in circles while you try to find your weapon in the menu. So, as others mentioned, this update would be an added convenience more than anything else.


What doesn't make sense to me is that there are actually quite a few ppl listing this as the most wanted update they would like to see on that update feedback thread on official site. Does it really matter that much or do they just don't know what they want to get on future updates?
My main character is a healing-type acrotecher. Navigating menus in an action RPG without a pause function is super annoying. And yes, I was one of those who mentioned this as a high-priority update.

Also, if SoA can negotiate for only 1 final update on our behalf (as Clumsy's post suggests), heck yeah, I want this included with Master classes!!

Akaimizu
Nov 20, 2008, 03:32 PM
Definitely makes sense. You get that often with Guntechers as well. The gun weapon gets used like crazy, while the other weapon sits there most of the time, not being used much.

It does seem real odd when you use a photon charge, only really used 1 of your two weapons at all, and then you only get half back.

It's really a matter of convenience. In some case, a bit of a balancing tweak that in practice solves an issue with the current system and dual wielders typically being hybrids that have heavy leans towards 1 or the other side of their class.

ErtaiClou
Nov 20, 2008, 04:08 PM
Of course it makes sense. If it didn't, 2-handed weapons should only be filled halfway per charge.

desturel
Nov 20, 2008, 04:09 PM
I made a nice long post about this, but it appears forgot to hit the submit reply button and closed out my browser. Here's the truncated version:

Master Classes are the reason.

Fighmaster = 2 handed weapons = 1 photon charge
Gunmaster = 2 handed weapons = 1 photon charge
MasterForce = 1 handed weapons = 2 photon charges or menu navigation.

MasterForce = lowest DPS of master classes. Add menu navigation or two photon charges to recharge TCSM = them being even slower and more expensive than other classes with the increased PP usage of the master classes.

MasterForce getting the shaft more that usual.

Enter in 1 photon charge for both weapons = MasterForce still shafted in terms of DPS, but not quite so much on recharge costs.

MasterForce weapons are the most expensive weapons to recharge in the game (Psycho Wand and Pushan) and their weapons run out fairly quickly, so why not put them on equal footing to the other master classses?

Akaimizu
Nov 20, 2008, 04:33 PM
That makes sense, too. Looks like a lot of provisions are being made due to how the MasterForce ended up in practice.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 20, 2008, 04:47 PM
"Item modifications
-Photon Charges will be modified so that when used from the action palette on two single-handed weapons, instead of replenishing only 50% of the max PP of each weapon, it will refill PP for only one weapon that has used up more pp than the other weapon automatically." - Fixed. Now, would that be too complicated to code in the game for ST sometime in the future?

I suggest to all not to make habit of trying to think that something make sense completely just for the sake of convenience ignoring all game balances and logical reasoning applied, or you will end up being just like them eventually.

DarthLasek
Nov 20, 2008, 05:01 PM
The reason is that it's annoying when you want to refill your (insert weapon name here) but since you're using two single-handed weapons, it only fills each one up half way. For example, if I have a wand in my right hand and a card fan in my left hand and I only want to refill my wand PP, I either have to unequip the card fan or use two charges.

It's not a big deal but I think it makes sense.

Takes 2 seconds to click start....items...scroll down to item and click refill with pp

Celi-Ka
Nov 20, 2008, 05:07 PM
Those 2 seconds are pretty significant, considering how quickly things die in this game.

Again, it's all about convenience. And it actually makes sense.

CelestialBlade
Nov 20, 2008, 07:20 PM
I made a nice long post about this, but it appears forgot to hit the submit reply button and closed out my browser. Here's the truncated version:

Master Classes are the reason.

Fighmaster = 2 handed weapons = 1 photon charge
Gunmaster = 2 handed weapons = 1 photon charge
MasterForce = 1 handed weapons = 2 photon charges or menu navigation.

MasterForce = lowest DPS of master classes. Add menu navigation or two photon charges to recharge TCSM = them being even slower and more expensive than other classes with the increased PP usage of the master classes.

MasterForce getting the shaft more that usual.

Enter in 1 photon charge for both weapons = MasterForce still shafted in terms of DPS, but not quite so much on recharge costs.

MasterForce weapons are the most expensive weapons to recharge in the game (Psycho Wand and Pushan) and their weapons run out fairly quickly, so why not put them on equal footing to the other master classses?
I wouldn't say that's the sole reason at all, the same "problem" that plagues MasterFail--er, Force, has plagued a lot of classes since the outset. I've been wanting this update for a very long time.

Powder Keg
Nov 20, 2008, 07:27 PM
Going to the menu to have to charge a single-handed weapon was annoying.

If it were my decision, I'd have made it so that it would charge the one you were currently using, but that would be flawed because some people have the L. Hand weapon on "hold" rather than "switch" so this was the best route to take.

desturel
Nov 20, 2008, 08:21 PM
I wouldn't say that's the sole reason at all, the same "problem" that plagues MasterFail--er, Force, has plagued a lot of classes since the outset. I've been wanting this update for a very long time.

Masterfarce is the only reason why they are doing it however. Otherwise we would already have the update. This update will likely come with the master classes.

Tetsaru
Nov 20, 2008, 08:54 PM
I think this update would be stupid and exploitable. A Photon Charge should NOT be able to refill two weapons at once, PLUS it would only contribute to making the game even MORE insanely easy.

What Segac SHOULD'VE done, imo, is allow the player to select which one-handed weapon to refill without having to enter the main menu to do it, perhaps through the use of whatever button you use for alternate weapon fire or something.

MSAksion
Nov 21, 2008, 02:06 AM
Wait Wait...

this was a problem that needed fixing?

If your weapon is empty why not do what i've been doing for 2 years;

1) Go to Menu
2) Go to the weapon that is empty
3) REFILL that weapon with a photon charge.

Its faster, easier, and more accurate. You fill exactly the weapon that is equiped that youre having issues with. Just look for that blue indicator light saying thats a current equipped wepaon.

Also - 10 charges? Who goes through all their weapons i mean ALL THEIR weapons before the next block? Dont you carry spare weapons?

The fact that a person theoretically could carry up to 60 weapons and most carry about TWENTY weapons (i know i do) that i never run out of PP ever. If one is out i switch to a spare. I have plenty of room for rares and armor and healing items left over to carry 12 rifles when i am rifle leveling.

syouz
Nov 21, 2008, 02:08 AM
i use ranger mags only so for my this update is bullshit apologize for the lenguaje i already star playing PSO BB and RAGNAROK Online THX to SEGAC america and their Bullcrap updates

darkante
Nov 21, 2008, 02:18 AM
Seriously, why is everyone against this idea.
This thing will hardly make a dent to the overpowered power boost Hunter/Ranger classes has gotten since the expansion.
At least Forces are more reasonable.

But this Photon Charge idea...man you people are darned ridiculous!
This game is suppose to use TEAM EFFORT.
Now we are simply spoiled by power, end of story.

Gen2000
Nov 21, 2008, 03:27 AM
Anyone against this update never played a hybrid class such as Guntecher or Acrotecher..or at least wasn't playing them good. This update is great for classes like those who are usually using mixed weapons anyways.

Going to menu to refill every single time is dumb.

darkante
Nov 21, 2008, 03:35 AM
Anyone against this update never played a hybrid class such as Guntecher or Acrotecher..or at least wasn't playing them good. This update is great for classes like those who are usually using mixed weapons anyways.

Going to menu to refill every single time is dumb.

Agreed, this is the main reason i´m all for this Photon Charge idea.

Kaloa
Nov 21, 2008, 03:41 AM
It's really annoying having to go into your menu in the heat of battle to select the weapon you want to recharge. It doesn't add difficulty or challenge, it just unnecessarily slows the game down. Yeah, I can use a photon charge to restore half my pp off my pallete, or two to restore my pp to full, but it feels like such a waste to, in many cases, use two photon charges to fill up ONE weapon. If you want to talk about unfair and broken, that right there is imo.

I want this update/change more than anything.

ashley50
Nov 21, 2008, 05:04 AM
heh...whatever, just let them do what they want. You'll never know when this server's gonna last anwyays.

so yeah...

redroses
Nov 21, 2008, 08:30 AM
I really can't see how this will make the game easier...
I am also looking forward to this update, because of my Acrotecher, I have a huge pallet of weapons on my Acrotecher and if things are going fast I just don't have the time to scroll through my whole entire pallet just to refill my weapon.
I also see this more of a update for Techer types as they really usually don't have the time to go in the menu and can't Just Attack to get PP quick (and stuff like Just Attack for the strongest classes in the game makes nothing easier right?)

I just fail to see why some people are really against this update...that's just completly ridiculous. Most likely you are all anyway running around with Jabroga and Majarra and crying about how the game is to easy.

Akaimizu
Nov 21, 2008, 10:20 AM
Same here. It really isn't a huge deal. The worst that can happen is that some classes will be able to solo more places with the same photon charge limitation without having to carry loads of duplicates in their inventory for stuff that's already taking alot of their inventory space. Classes that already use a lot of inventory space just to have 1 single version of their weapons (because they have more than half their pallette as single-handed weapons) might save a couple of inventory spaces now. And I do mean might. That's pretty much the one and only true benefit. It still leaves the higher chance that you'll have one barely used right hand weapon and a heavily used left-hand weapon, and the charge fills up that one weapon.

If people see that as a game-breaking issue, they really are blowing this out of proportion.

ANIMEniac
Nov 21, 2008, 10:27 AM
i personaly think it should refill the last used weapon of the 2. but thats just me

desturel
Nov 21, 2008, 11:17 AM
I have plenty of room for rares and armor and healing items left over to carry 12 rifles when i am rifle leveling.

The fact that you claim this is worthless and then use rifles as an example makes your point invalid. Imaging using two photon charges to fill up your rifle. There is absolutely no reason why you need to go into the menu to refile a rifle.

Fortegunner pallet:
Rifle
Twin Handguns
Laser Cannon
Shotgun
Xbow
Spear

extras:
Rifle
Grenade
Laser Cannon


Total 9 weapons. All of which can be filled with a single photon charge

Acrotechers typical pallet:
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Whip
Twin Handguns
TCSM + Dagger
TCSM + Whip

Extras:
Card + Saber
Twin Daggers

Total of 14 weapons. Only two can be refilled with one photon charge. A fortegunner bitching about this update is a hypocrite. It doesn't apply to you. One photon charge already refills most of your weapons. When you do run around with a Xbow, you likely don't have it paired with anything. Sure you can pair it with a Saber or Dagger, but why when you have a spear for your melee damage?

Even as a Fortetecher this is a useful update:
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Wand
Rod
TCSM + Wand
Card + Wand
Rod

Extras:
Longbow
Rod
Rod

Total of 13 weapons. The extra rods are there for elemental switches although some techers just prefer to keep a pallet of all TCSM/Wand. Cards can be swapped with handgun if all you are using it for is breaking trees.

Even the most die hard "I'm only going to use rods for techs" techers with a pallet of:

Rod - Buffs
Rod - Light
Rod - Dark
Rod - Fire
Rod - Ice
Rod - Ground

Extras
Rod - Lightning
Longbow

Should understand why this update would be useful.

CelestialBlade
Nov 21, 2008, 01:02 PM
I find it funny that this update mostly benefits Rangers and Forces to an extent, yet people claim it makes the game "too easy." So I'm guessing a Majarra buff would be met with instant praise, kinda like how Fighmaster gets Jabroken at Acrofighter speed.

Nooo, there's no bias in the complaints here at *all*....

Akaimizu
Nov 21, 2008, 01:20 PM
I don't know. Maybe because this update increases nothing in the power of said forces and rangers. There is no power, speed, or anything buff. It makes no difference in terms of killing monsters faster or better.

This, is not even a powerup, so it's not even comparable. If you're going to site bias. At least use the same comparison.

And even when there was the issue of the old Chikki. It was pretty clear most of the rangers didn't want something that powerful at long range for even themselves. They know that long range high-speed total group killers breaks the game no matter who has it. I believe that discussion might still be in the logs, if they weren't wiped out yet.

CelestialBlade
Nov 21, 2008, 01:24 PM
I don't know. Maybe because this update increases nothing in the power of said forces and rangers. There is no power, speed, or anything buff. It makes no difference in terms of killing monsters faster or better.

This, is not even a powerup, so it's not even comparable. If you're going to site bias. At least use the same comparison.
Well, that's pretty much what I was getting at. Rangers/Forces get an update and so many people are jumping at the chance to shoot it down, claiming it's making the game too easy when it's more of a convenience than a boost. Yet stuff that actually *does* make the game too easy tends to get praise. It's just funny.

Akaimizu
Nov 21, 2008, 01:30 PM
I understand, but it really depends. I don't count those votes as an entire group. Especially since melee masters tend to outnumber the rest. You're bound to have more complainers in a larger group, regardless on the numbers of them that don't care so much.

Magician
Nov 21, 2008, 01:41 PM
http://psupedia.info/Longterm_schedule#Item_modifications
"Item modifications
-Photon Charges will be modified so that when used from the action palette on two single-handed weapons, instead of replenishing only 50% of the max PP of each weapon, it will refill all PP for each weapon."

Is there a valid reason why this update is so important and necessary for some players other than it makes the game even easier than it already is?
I'm curious to hear your honest thoughts on this?
(tried forum search but couldn't find topic on this...)

Hmm, you don't believe that fixing an item so that it does what it's suppose to do is a valid reason? Considering I've been using an acrotecher soloing alot recently, I love the update. How long have JP players had this fix, a year now? It's about time, honestly.


I understand, but it really depends. I don't count those votes as an entire group. Especially since melee masters tend to outnumber the rest. You're bound to have more complainers in a larger group, regardless on the numbers of them that don't care so much. I know Fallout 3 is good, but I'd like to run PO a couple times this week if you can manage to pull yourself away from it? :)

Akaimizu
Nov 21, 2008, 01:54 PM
I'm fine with it. As usual, if anybody wants to do some PSU, simply shoot me a XBL message. I'm catching up on finishing other games, but I'm ready to play multiplayer with any requests.

Magician
Nov 21, 2008, 02:00 PM
I'm fine with it. As usual, if anybody wants to do some PSU, simply shoot me a XBL message. I'm catching up on finishing other games, but I'm ready to play multiplayer with any requests. I'm usually not one to hound somebody to party up with me, but I'm in the mood for more PSU now that I've finished with everything else that's recent (Fable II, Fallout 3, GoW 2, Dead Space, etc). I'll be sure to pester you for company if you're on late tonight or on over the weekend.

Darius_Drake
Nov 21, 2008, 02:36 PM
The fact that you claim this is worthless and then use rifles as an example makes your point invalid. Imaging using two photon charges to fill up your rifle. There is absolutely no reason why you need to go into the menu to refile a rifle.

Fortegunner pallet:
Rifle
Twin Handguns
Laser Cannon
Shotgun
Xbow
Spear

extras:
Rifle
Grenade
Laser Cannon


Total 9 weapons. All of which can be filled with a single photon charge

Acrotechers typical pallet:
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Whip
Twin Handguns
TCSM + Dagger
TCSM + Whip

Extras:
Card + Saber
Twin Daggers

Total of 14 weapons. Only two can be refilled with one photon charge. A fortegunner bitching about this update is a hypocrite. It doesn't apply to you. One photon charge already refills most of your weapons. When you do run around with a Xbow, you likely don't have it paired with anything. Sure you can pair it with a Saber or Dagger, but why when you have a spear for your melee damage?

Even as a Fortetecher this is a useful update:
TCSM + Wand
TCSM + Wand
Rod
TCSM + Wand
Card + Wand
Rod

Extras:
Longbow
Rod
Rod

Total of 13 weapons. The extra rods are there for elemental switches although some techers just prefer to keep a pallet of all TCSM/Wand. Cards can be swapped with handgun if all you are using it for is breaking trees.

Even the most die hard "I'm only going to use rods for techs" techers with a pallet of:

Rod - Buffs
Rod - Light
Rod - Dark
Rod - Fire
Rod - Ice
Rod - Ground

Extras
Rod - Lightning
Longbow

Should understand why this update would be useful.

Thank you. You pretty much covered it.
Sincerely,
Proud Acrotecher

HyperShot-X-
Nov 21, 2008, 03:10 PM
the main issue here:
Is over simplifying game play mechanics for one's own convenience mostly affected by their own playing style really worth killing off the beauty of delicate RPG elements & fun/challenge factors it provides in game play balances & customizability which this game stands for as online co-op Action RPG ?

Personally I enjoy playing my A.Techer lvl20 b/c it's fun setting up my own pallets & customizing technics on duel wielding mag+wand combo factoring in PP & TP differences on each weapon, and it's challenging to use them effectively in battle balancing out pp usages on both weps across the whole pallet.

My typical setup:
Tech Mag + Wand - secondary attack techs & resta
Card + Whip - can be swapped with other ranged + melee combo
T.Mag + Wand - heal(giresta & anti) & attack tech
T.Mag + Wand - primary attack techs & resta
T.Mag + Wand - for Debuffs
T.Mag + Wand - for Buffs

I also use Te/PP Generate unit that I can benefit so much from which is quite a useful item(it recharges all weps on action pallet, not just the ones you're using at the moment). If I run out of pp on my primary weps during battle(I ususally recharge them while running from one block to next before heading into next set of enemy spawns & yes, managing such tasks are all part of the game), I just switch to secondary weps on pallet quickly and clear the remaining enemies 1st on that block and then recharge other weps afterwards as necessary. I also do carry around couple of spare wands just in case.

T.Mag + Wand combo have enough PP to spare combined togather if used effectively & balanced out when compared to Rod, the drawback is that one photon charge should not recharge both weps completely.

This update is flawed in that it disregards all the considerations factored into it and only benefits those who spams only one side of single weapons repeatedly until all PP is drained quickly not even minding the pp bar on the bottom right of screen and tries to recharge off the pallet on fly whenever/wherever as they feel like expecting it to fill up pp completely on both weps.

I wouldn't mind if we were just playing a mindless multiplayer online hack n' slash action game, but PSU is more than just that, it's foundation is heavily based on deep RPG elements and that's what makes PSU so great. Once majority of ppl can see thru the imperfection on this fix, the correct fix can't be that far away.

*Another suggestion on GunTecher in question would be, if you mainly use left handed ranged wep then just take off right handed wep off the pallet and toggle between spare sets on the pallet only when you need to use right handed melee wep or wand.

Gen2000
Nov 21, 2008, 03:22 PM
You don't get it at all.

CelestialBlade
Nov 21, 2008, 03:22 PM
*Another suggestion on GunTecher in question would be, if you mainly use left handed ranged wep then just take off right handed wep off the pallet and toggle between spare sets on the pallet only when you need to use right handed melee wep or wand.
Any good Guntecher is using both the gun and whatever's on their right hand in tandem, that's the beauty of the class. I can heal and use my Crossbow at the same time. Just isn't going to happen.

I just fail to see the issue with adding in a simple convenience. It does not affect the killing aspect of the gameplay (read: the actual flawed part) at all. One-handed guns run out of PP really fast when you're talking level 31+ bullets, so it's pretty nice to not have to go through the menus. The five seconds you do spend charging the weapon manually aren't fun, and last I checked, games are supposed to be fun. I just don't see why this convenience is a big deal.

desturel
Nov 21, 2008, 03:22 PM
the main issue here:
Is over simplifying game play mechanics for one's own convenience mostly affected by their own playing style really worth killing off the beauty of delicate RPG elements & fun/challenge factors it provides in game play balances & customizability which this game stands for as online co-op Action RPG ?

I believe the delicate balance of RPG elements that you are talking about was destroyed when Just Attack and PP recharge through striking were introduced.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 21, 2008, 04:02 PM
Any good Guntecher is using both the gun and whatever's on their right hand in tandem, that's the beauty of the class. I can heal and use my Crossbow at the same time. Just isn't going to happen.
think you misread me, didn't say not to use them both, i just said toggle them on pallet with spare sets if you want to fully recharge your Crossbow only with just 1 photon charge without the wand, or just use 2 charges on both.


I believe the delicate balance of RPG elements that you are talking about was destroyed when Just Attack and PP recharge through striking were introduced. don't see how Just Attack was destroying it instead of actually improving gameplay, as for PP regain with normal strikes i see it as balancing for fighters with melee weps for PP limitation in comparison to techers which benefits from newman pp regenerate ability. It's all about balanced gameplay elements.

desturel
Nov 21, 2008, 04:11 PM
don't see how Just Attack was destroying it instead of actually improving gameplay, as for PP regain with normal strikes i see it as balancing for fighters with melee weps for PP limitation in comparison to techers which benefits from newman pp regenerate ability. It's all about balanced gameplay elements.

Wait, so PP regen through normal strikes is okay, but using a photon charge breaks game balance? Also what is the "newman pp regenerate ability" you are talking about?

Being able to do 50% more damage to a creature for no more than timing a button press is less game breaking than refilling an item without going through a menu system? Please explain your logic.

Xaeris
Nov 21, 2008, 04:11 PM
If you don't think introducing JA without boosting enemy HP to compensate broke the game, I'm nonplussed as to how you consider this to be doing any damage to what little remains of the game's balance.

redroses
Nov 21, 2008, 04:39 PM
don't see how Just Attack was destroying it instead of actually improving gameplay, as for PP regain with normal strikes i see it as balancing for fighters with melee weps for PP limitation in comparison to techers which benefits from newman pp regenerate ability. It's all about balanced gameplay elements.

Excuse me, what?
I'm sorry but I think you have no clue about what you are saying.
How can PP gaining Plus critical hitting with just simple button smashing for the anyway already overpowered classes be not broken, but gaining full PP for two handed weapons with a Photon charge which at least cost money be?
Also, ALL weapons have a limited amount of PP, not just the melee weapons. And uhm, there is no such thing as a PP regenerate ability for Newman =l And still to add, not every Newman is a techer and not every techer is a Newman.

Godhand
Nov 21, 2008, 05:26 PM
Doesn't seem like something worth complaining over.

Kylie
Nov 21, 2008, 05:56 PM
I see single-handed weapons as "half weapons," so one charge should charge both your handgun and your whip. It's absurd to use a charge on your weapon because it's out a of juice, and it only charges half-way because the system is too stupid to know why you recharged, while you never even used your gun. The fix is long overdue, in my opinion.

SStrikerR
Nov 21, 2008, 06:00 PM
I personally just think this is insignificant and I'm pretty surprised you people seem more excited about this than the other updates I hear about. You know..actual things to do?

Kylie
Nov 21, 2008, 06:02 PM
I personally just think this is insignificant and I'm pretty surprised you people seem more excited about this than the other updates I hear about. You know..actual things to do?
Well, it is pretty insignificant, but I think it at least deserves a thumbs up. :-P

HyperShot-X-
Nov 21, 2008, 06:04 PM
*facepalm* srry but i can't continue this conversation w/ a mob of total noobs who got no clue what 'newman techer pp regenerate ability' is...*God have mercy on them, they don't know what they're doing...

Oh, next time you play your newman techer, pay attn to those pp bars on the bottom right of screen and see what happens slowly as time passes. Then come back and we can continue this, tsk tsk. :disapprove:

Tyreek
Nov 21, 2008, 06:19 PM
Get your facts straight. That little PP regenerate ability you refer to right? That is not Newman exclusive. That is for all races and all weapons. I'm Human, and with my experience with teching, my PP bar rises slowly as well. Blow your hot air elsewhere. And no, this is not with a PP/Generate unit.

RAGNAGELPPOD
Nov 21, 2008, 06:24 PM
Maybe hypershot is stuck in pso where only newmans could regain tp over time? Has anyone told him that in standard runs, traps are no longer cast exclusive yet?

tirith
Nov 21, 2008, 06:26 PM
i don't think newmans get any extra pp regen, check psupedia

http://psupedia.info/Newmans

nope, no extra pp regen, so they regen at the same rate all the races regen pp at...

and i play a newman AT and the photon charge is probably the least of the updates i would like to see of possable updates. i can manage to use up my wand and mag at about the same pace so charging half of each doesn't bother me.

Tyreek
Nov 21, 2008, 06:37 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the point of complaining about this feature. And I'll say, it was annoying getting my weapons only charged halfway when I only used one weapon on hand. So I welcome this feature.

McLaughlin
Nov 21, 2008, 06:38 PM
I'd prefer it to just refill the active weapon, but I'll gladly let them both fill up. It's really irritating to have to go into the menu to refill my sabers/pistols/slicers/daggers each time they get drained.

Tyreek
Nov 21, 2008, 06:40 PM
I'll glady take this over the tech nerf any day.

desturel
Nov 21, 2008, 06:41 PM
*facepalm* srry but i can't continue this conversation w/ a mob of total noobs who got no clue what 'newman techer pp regenerate ability' is...*God have mercy on them, they don't know what they're doing...

It's not neuman exclusive. A neuman fortefighter and a beast fortefighter regen pp at the exact same rate. A cast techer and a neuman techer regen pp at the exact same rate. Just because you don't pay attention to pp regeneration doesn't mean you are right. You are clearly wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.

autumn
Nov 21, 2008, 06:50 PM
I play alot of hybrid types and I am much looking forward to this in an update. It isn't gamebreaking, there are way more broken things out there. If you must whine about things being broken find something real to whine about.

Kylie
Nov 21, 2008, 06:54 PM
It's not neuman exclusive. A neuman fortefighter and a beast fortefighter regen pp at the exact same rate. A cast techer and a neuman techer regen pp at the exact same rate. Just because you don't pay attention to pp regeneration doesn't mean you are right. You are clearly wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.
Actually, irrc, beast fortefighters, CAST fortegunners, and newman fortetechers get slight bonuses for PP regen.

Humans get the bonus for hybrid classes (not sure)?

Tyreek
Nov 21, 2008, 06:58 PM
Even so Kylie, the point is he blantanly called us noobs because he thinks pp regenerating is Newman only. Apparently, he is blatantly wrong.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 21, 2008, 07:24 PM
so all techers regen pp then thats even better on top of the fact that tech weps usually got at least twice pp capacity then strike weps, so it evens out in the end, not factoring in Just attack which some make it sound so easy to do, imo it takes effort to perfect the exact timing to pull off just attack full combos w/ swords for ex. & also timing is not all the same for different strike wep types, so button mashing don't work period.
*btw my AT is newman & i'm still skeptical on it's abilities w/ such high MST over all the other races,..

McLaughlin
Nov 21, 2008, 07:26 PM
Actually, irrc, beast fortefighters, CAST fortegunners, and newman fortetechers get slight bonuses for PP regen.

Humans get the bonus for hybrid classes (not sure)?

Fighgunner by itself also has a boosted PP Regeneration rate, I believe.

This is simply a matter of convenience, and nothing more. It won't (or hasn't, in the case of the JP server) break the game.

I sincerely doubt any deep thought process was behind the decision to have Photon Charges work like they do in regards to paired weapons. They probably figured "Two weapons; cut the charge in half," which makes sense in a literal way of thinking. However, when you look at the disparity in PP between single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons, it doesn't make much sense, as two single-handed weapons don't have the combined PP of a two-handed weapon.

I still think the best way to "fix" it would be to just have the Photon Charge affect your active weapon. Half the time I only want to charge my main weapon and end only getting half the bang for my buck because my offhand weapon is already full.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 21, 2008, 07:50 PM
Even so Kylie, the point is he blantanly called us noobs because he thinks pp regenerating is Newman only. Apparently, he is blatantly wrong.i did not say it was newman exclusive only from start and if you think that's what i meant then 1)srry, you have misunderstood me sir, and 2)you totally missed the point i was trying to get to regarding balance issues on fighter vs. techer.

Xaeris
Nov 21, 2008, 07:56 PM
Actually, there's no kind of PP regen bonus attached to race. Bonuses are determined by type (and units I guess) alone.

Kylie
Nov 21, 2008, 10:24 PM
Even so Kylie, the point is he blantanly called us noobs because he thinks pp regenerating is Newman only. Apparently, he is blatantly wrong.
Oh, I'm not supporting anyone here. Just saying what I thought I remembered. :-P


Actually, there's no kind of PP regen bonus attached to race. Bonuses are determined by type (and units I guess) alone.
@ Xaeris: OK. Like I said, I wasn't sure, but I knew there was some kind of racial bonus... Maybe I was thinking of this (http://psupedia.info/Types#Favored_Types).

desturel
Nov 21, 2008, 10:42 PM
Actually, irrc, beast fortefighters, CAST fortegunners, and newman fortetechers get slight bonuses for PP regen.

Humans get the bonus for hybrid classes (not sure)?

No. I have played as all classes as all races. The only "bonus" that you get as a beast fortefighter is a stat bonus. Everything else is the same. I have no idea who is spreading this type of mis-information, but it really has to stop. If you haven't paid any attention to your characters, that is your own fault.


so all techers regen pp then thats even better on top of the fact that tech weps usually got at least twice pp capacity then strike weps, so it evens out in the end

You have no idea what you are talking about again. Okay I'll give examples this time. This will take a while, so I'm sure there will be other people responding before I get a chance to finish typing.

In my examples, I'm going to assume you are using canned buffs. Not with an acrotecher around.

Say you are a FighMaster and your pallet is as follows (all weapons have 0 grinds for this example):

Carriguine Rucar (618 PP) - Tornado Dance (46 PP for a FighMaster)
Mugunburgac (300 PP) - Dus Majarra (26 pp)
Muktengek (390 pp) - Dus Majarra (26 pp)
Ank Zagza (384 pp) - Anga Jabroga (65 pp)
Ank Dedda (374 pp) - Anga Redda (31 pp)
Svaltus Sword (550 pp) - Gravity Break (32 pp)

Extra:
Crea Double (438 pp) - Spiral Dance (19 pp)

Notice I'm only using weapons that should be pretty easy to obtain right now. there's noting there amazingly hard to get.

Assuming you have 0 PP regen (which you seem to believe is the case), you can do:

Tornado dance 13 times
The full combo of Dus Majarra 3 times on the first spear
The full combo of Dus Majarra 5 times on the second spear
Anga Jabroga 5 times on the Zagza
The full combo of Anga Redda 4 times on the Dedda
The full combo of Gravity Break 5 times
Spiral Dance 7 times

Sounds pretty dismal right? Recharge costs for all of those weapons completely drained in about 1500 meseta.

With the Jabroga, you can do 5x2x5500 points of damage depending on element and target creature. These are really loose number obviously, but here's a video for you to look at if you think these numbers are unreasonable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ec-earJ2ug
(notice they use Bil De Axe in most of the video which has 595 pp with 0 grinds. My examples don't even give that much PP)

Dus Majarra is about 3x2x1300 + 4x2x2300+ 1x3x3700 (again, I'm being very friendly with the number. you and I both know it does more damage than that)

Anga Redda is around 4x2x2600 + 2x8000

Gravity Break is around 1x5000 + 2x5000 + 3x5000

Tornado dance is used for travel, and lets assume that you won't need to use spiral dance since you don't feel like swapping a weapon into your pallet. Your total damage for your pallet is:

5x5x2x5500 (5 jabroga on 5 targets twice for 5500 damage) = 250000 damage
+
8x3x2x1300 + 8x4x2x2300 + 8x3x4400 = 62400 + 147200 + 105600 = 315200 damage
+
4x4x2x2600 + 4x2x8000 = 83200 + 64000 = 147200 damage
+
5x5000 + 5x2x5000 + 5x3x5000 = 25000 + 50000 + 75000 = 15000 damage
=
862400 damage

This is the damage for one pallet with no photon charges and no pp regen. At the recharge of 1500 meseta, you get around 575 damage per meseta spent.

Now lets compare that to Master Techer

Your pallet is
Pushan (1175 pp) + Tesbra+5 (966 pp)
Psycho wand+9 (2346 pp)

A psycho wand +9 costs about 1300 to recharge.
A Tesbra+5 costs about 500 to recharge
A pushan costs around 550 to recharge

That brings recharges to about 2350 for three weapons.

The psycho wand has:
Nosmegid
Dammegid
RaMegid
Megid

Tesbra has:
Giresta
Reverser

Pushan has:
Ramegid
Megid

Okay, so everything is setup for elemental bonuses so the numbers are bigger. Two of the weapons are also grinded and this is pretty much the best equipment that you can get as a Masterforce outside of a Granahodorac+10, psychowand+10 and a pushan+10. There is no need for additional weapons in this example because all other weapons are redundant. They would get the exact same numbers. (unless you were using, a Dori and Halarod, but why would you do that?)

Nosmegid costs 55 pp per cast
dammegid costs 31 pp per cast and is a cast and hold.
Ramegid costs 38 pp
Megid is 48 pp

For simplicity sake, I'll use damage against kakwane for my example
Nosmegid on the psycho wand does around 2800 damage.
Dammegid on the psycho wand does around 2200 damage.
Ramegid on the Pushan+0 does around 1600 damage.
Megid on the pushan does around 1650 damage.

Nosmegid and dammegid are on the same rod so they share PP, so I'll do half and half for both (1173 pp each even though you would likely only need Dammegid on Kakwane, but I'm trying to make a fair example)

Dammegid is a hold tech, so it's a bit hard to pin down a calculation for the number of times it hits for 1173 pp at 31 pp per cast so I had to do a run and average it out to around 32 hits
Nosmegid would get 21 casts

Again, ramegid and megid are on a shared PP pool so I'll split the pp for both of them (588 pp each)
ramegid would get 15 casts
megid would get 12 casts.

This calculates out to
32 x 2800 x 6 = (32 hits, 2800 damage, 6 targets) 537600
+
21 x 2200 x 3 = (21 hits, 2200 damage, 3 targets... nosmegid hits 3 at level 41 btw) 138600
+
15 x 1600 x 5 = 120000
+
12 x 1650 x 8 = (8 is the maximum number of targets that I've seen on the screen at one time. this will assume megid hits all of them. If you know of a place with more than 8 targets, let me know and I'll readjust the count) 158400
=
954600 damage

That is around 406 damage per meseta spent at 2300 recharge cost.

The point of all of these numbers?

It is cheaper for a fighter to do more damage than a techer.

This isn't even taking into account that you do your damage quicker which skews the numbers even more towards your end. Except for Carriguine Rucar and Svaltus Sword, I'm not even using your best PP weapons. Mugunburgac? Dedda?

It is obvious you've never seriously played as a techer of any type. You are uninformed and proudly ignorant of the balance issues in this game and you feel like bitching over the fact that a photon charge would recharge the Pushan to full when the Tesbra is barley touched and doesn't factor into the damage you do as a techer in any way.

Hell, if the photon charge only filled the Pushan and left the Tesbra the way it was, that would accomplish the same goal. Saving the MasterForce, which is already the slowest DPS of the Master classes, the extra time of having to go through the menus to recharge the main damage dealing weapon in their pallet. Ra techs are a MF main source of damage. Most creatures aren't going to rush you down like a Kakwane or a Booma making dam spells situational. Ra spells can be used in any situation.

The fact that you are bitching about an update which only adds a minor convenience to the more than half of classes in the game and saves about two second worth of time speaks volumes. The fact that I spent this much time trying to explain the situation to you likely also speaks volumes (not that I expect you to read it, but it bugs me when people who are uninformed start spouting non-sense).

Classes most affected by the update:
Fighgunner (the ones that use more than just double sabers and spears that is)
Guntecher
Wartecher
Fortetecher
Acrofighter
Acrotecher
MasterForce

Classes that are least affected by this update:
Protranser
Gunmaster
Fighmaster
Fortegunner
Fortefighter

Kylie
Nov 21, 2008, 10:51 PM
No. I have played as all classes as all races. The only "bonus" that you get as a beast fortefighter is a stat bonus. Everything else is the same. I have no idea who is spreading this type of mis-information, but it really has to stop. If you haven't paid any attention to your characters, that is your own fault.Three of my characters are beasts. :lol: Besides, I said I wasn't sure, so I wouldn't consider that spreading false information. I just had no reason to think that it was incorrect, and now I know.

Clint
Nov 22, 2008, 12:15 AM
http://psupedia.info/Longterm_schedule#Item_modifications
"Item modifications
-Photon Charges will be modified so that when used from the action palette on two single-handed weapons, instead of replenishing only 50% of the max PP of each weapon, it will refill all PP for each weapon."

Is there a valid reason why this update is so important and necessary for some players other than it makes the game even easier than it already is?
I'm curious to hear your honest thoughts on this?
(tried forum search but couldn't find topic on this...)

Oh My God !!! >_>


I don't know. Maybe because this update increases nothing in the power of said forces and rangers. There is no power, speed, or anything buff. It makes no difference in terms of killing monsters faster or better.

This, is not even a powerup, so it's not even comparable. If you're going to site bias. At least use the same comparison.

And even when there was the issue of the old Chikki. It was pretty clear most of the rangers didn't want something that powerful at long range for even themselves. They know that long range high-speed total group killers breaks the game no matter who has it. I believe that discussion might still be in the logs, if they weren't wiped out yet.


Stopping open menu refill wep? This takes time from battle If you played on the Japanese Server you would understand trust me it does come in handy and it has no difference in your skill :-)


Does it really matter that much to you guys that you have to use 2 charges when you have that many with you at one time? Seriously, that's why they're so cheap in shops. If you burn through all your charges without double charging, lay off the spamspamspamspam. If you have spares, use them. It's not much of a loss if you have to buy 10 after a mission, that's less than a block's worth of a meseta.


No worries you can still use the traditional method if you so choose ;-)

DarthLasek
Nov 22, 2008, 02:32 AM
Masterfarce is the only reason why they are doing it however. Otherwise we would already have the update. This update will likely come with the master classes.

Oh so we're getting this never?

redroses
Nov 22, 2008, 08:15 AM
so all techers regen pp then thats even better on top of the fact that tech weps usually got at least twice pp capacity then strike weps, so it evens out in the end, not factoring in Just attack which some make it sound so easy to do, imo it takes effort to perfect the exact timing to pull off just attack full combos w/ swords for ex. & also timing is not all the same for different strike wep types, so button mashing don't work period.
*btw my AT is newman & i'm still skeptical on it's abilities w/ such high MST over all the other races,..


wow, it's hilarious that you call us noobs...but you are the only one who doesn't even know what the hell he is talking about.
Newman don't gain extra PP regen!(but I think you already got this one)
And ALL weapons/classes have PP regen, not just Techers. Every weapon has PP regen effect, just some classes gain more PP per regen tick.
Also yes, Just attack is very easy to pull of.

And the reason why Guns or Tech weapons have more PP is because they use PP for every attack. They can't switch to a normal hit which doesn't use PP like fighters with their melee weapons can.

furrypaws
Nov 22, 2008, 09:12 AM
I have a question. Wouldn't that take all doubt out of the whole Pit+Wand>Rod argument? Faster casting time, now double PP, restore for the same cost with one single PC, with only a very slight decrease in MST?

Hrith
Nov 22, 2008, 09:31 AM
Not for hold techs.

Most Masterforces have solved that issue by using a Pushan with nothing in the right hand, though.

desturel
Nov 22, 2008, 09:35 AM
Three of my characters are beasts. :lol: Besides, I said I wasn't sure

Sorry, I was pretty annoyed at the time as is probably evident in some of the grammar in my post. :P I normally read over what I'm typing before I post it.


Most Masterforces have solved that issue by using a Pushan with nothing in the right hand, though.

Well, most techers that don't also heal the party have done this. I still go out of my way to keep the party healed so there's always a wand with my Shato/Pushan/Dori.

EMPYREAN
Nov 22, 2008, 12:00 PM
finaly, this is good news.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 22, 2008, 02:02 PM
Most Masterforces have solved that issue by using a Pushan with nothing in the right hand, though.



Well, most techers that don't also heal the party have done this. I still go out of my way to keep the party healed so there's always a wand with my Shato/Pushan/Dori.

I prefer setting resta & gi-tech on TechMag to take advantage on pp capacity and two attach techs of the same element on my wand to take advantage of higher TP for damage output w/ the added element % boost, and I try to use them evenly not to drain pp on one side only while also taking advantage of pp regeneration on the other hand not being used.

I think this is the fundamental differences we have and the main point i was trying to get across about the issues on balance & rpg elements before all that load of nonsense about Just attack+pp regain and damage output over time comparison among totally different type of classes for what less than 1k pp recharge cost in the end which is a whole new topic in itself, and I'm not the one who brought that up to begin with.

Bottom line, you can try to come up with whatever excuses to justify this flawed update to compensate for those classes more affected over the others, but I just don't buy it when there is clearly a better way to handle the fix.
I can be careless whether this update comes sooner or later, when it comes then it comes, but it's clearly not one of the top priority on the list of things i want to see the most.

Conor
Nov 25, 2008, 01:04 AM
Well, i just want to say, that the two years ive been playing this since the game came out, i have not once set photon charges in my pallate. Personally, I dont think it has really made my playing any harder or more inconveniant, just more used to the random charge. I hardly ever even use charges, because when im FG with my xbow/shotty, I rarely even even run out of PP in the first place, except with zagenga. And even when I play AT, I never run out of PP, because I usually simply use a whip(that will regain PP fast enough on its own)+techmag with resta/debuff. Then switch, to the next set of the same weps, not including buffs, which also hardly ever run out of PP. So this whole photon charge update is useless if you keep enough weapons and use them efficiently enough to compensate for PP. So I agree that this update should have been used on something far more important, like a new mission or some weapon, or MASTER CLASSES!! HINT HINT!!

desturel
Nov 25, 2008, 02:25 AM
So I agree that this update should have been used on something far more important, like a new mission or some weapon, or MASTER CLASSES!! HINT HINT!!

The update isn't in place yet. The original complaint is that the update will be made in the future... most likely when Master Classes come out or shortly after.

Don't worry, if you use a photon charge with two weapons now, it will still only fill things up half way.

Tyreek
Nov 25, 2008, 02:30 AM
Honestly, is this really worth complaining over?

Seority
Nov 25, 2008, 06:28 AM
It's a HUGE convenience for all the good Acros in PSU. Done~

RedCoKid
Nov 25, 2008, 12:13 PM
I prefer setting resta & gi-tech on TechMag to take advantage on pp capacity and two attach techs of the same element on my wand to take advantage of higher TP for damage output w/ the added element % boost, and I try to use them evenly not to drain pp on one side only while also taking advantage of pp regeneration on the other hand not being used.
Frankly, your first priority should be to attack/heal and second to manage pp, not vice versa. In other words, you should do what the battle dictates, not what your pp dictates.

Every second I spend navigating menus is one second I am not attending to my party or contributing to battle.

It sounds like you're the only one in this thread complaining about this update coming. This belongs in deadhorse IMO.

ashley50
Nov 25, 2008, 12:26 PM
Honestly, is this really worth complaining over?

according to OP, yes.

BIGGIEstyle
Nov 25, 2008, 01:23 PM
Well, i just want to say, that the two years ive been playing this since the game came out, i have not once set photon charges in my pallate. Personally, I dont think it has really made my playing any harder or more inconveniant, just more used to the random charge. I hardly ever even use charges, because when im FG with my xbow/shotty, I rarely even even run out of PP in the first place, except with zagenga. And even when I play AT, I never run out of PP, because I usually simply use a whip(that will regain PP fast enough on its own)+techmag with resta/debuff. Then switch, to the next set of the same weps, not including buffs, which also hardly ever run out of PP. So this whole photon charge update is useless if you keep enough weapons and use them efficiently enough to compensate for PP. So I agree that this update should have been used on something far more important, like a new mission or some weapon, or MASTER CLASSES!! HINT HINT!!

I see as an acro you've never had a party that insists on splitting as FAR apart as they can when you're buffing. When my tech mag has almost double the PP as my wand I tend to run out of it VERY fast constantly buffing, and as RedCoKid said, every second wasted in a menu is a second I could be helping the party.

Debuffs are worse.

It's nice that you use a striking weapon which can regen PP on it's own, but some of us Acrotechers was use techs tend to run out of our PP fairly often, and instead of being able to use the palette easily, if you want your wand or mag refilled ya gotta do it by the damn menu.

I agree that it would have been a better update to make the charge refill the ACTIVE weapon but this is very nice for an Acro.

desturel
Nov 25, 2008, 01:34 PM
It's nice that you use a striking weapon which can regen PP on it's own, but some of us Acrotechers was use techs tend to run out of our PP fairly often

I often use single dagger instead of whip as an acrotecher. The whips animation takes to long to recoil in some cases causing a problem with healing other party members (or the times when you attempt to cast resta and instead go into the second part of the whip combo because the animation hadn't completely stopped). It's not often that it happens, but it's often enough that I mainly use a whip when soloing. There are enough other people around dealing damage that I don't have to worry about being the main damage dealer. In fact if I am doing the most damage as the acrotecher, then something must be wrong with the party I'm in.

BIGGIEstyle
Nov 25, 2008, 01:54 PM
LoL I wholeheartedly agree Desturel.

As an acro if I'm doing anything other than tech (I sometimes do because everyone gets tired of leveling techs) I usually go with- as you said- a single dagger or even sometimes a saber. There are even times that I'll be seen slinging twin handguns if there's more than one techer in the party since they're good for SE application but bad if someone needs immediate healing.

Akaimizu
Nov 25, 2008, 02:38 PM
I definitely understand the debuffs issue. It's another balancing aspect I would be hoping for some future. Outside of a few instances of monsters buffing themselves (like up in Def/Attack), the debuffs are really weak compared to their cost. Expensive techs, but highly specific to a small amount of situations they have marginal use for.

McLaughlin
Nov 25, 2008, 02:54 PM
Bottom line, you can try to come up with whatever excuses to justify this flawed update to compensate for those classes more affected over the others, but I just don't buy it when there is clearly a better way to handle the fix.

Ok, so what's your justification for leaving it the way it it? To screw over melee players who aren't using Spears? To mess with Gun/Wartechers who are trying to use the teching half of their job (likely to support you)? Or just to screw over Masterforces completely?

You tell us all we're concocting excuses for why we want this change, that is somehow breaks the game, and that we're all insane for not seeing things the way you want us to.

Let's hear your reasoning. Something other than, "you're all stupid." The way I see it, it's a matter of convenience and nothing more. I can't believe that over all the (balance) problems in the game you're taking issue with this.

HyperShot-X-
Nov 25, 2008, 04:01 PM
Obsidian, don't get the wrong idea plz, i wouldn't have brought up this subject in the 1st place have I not noticed some ppl listing this as the top priority on that update feedback thread.
Again, I do NOT oppose the idea of doing something about photon charge being the way it is, it's just that they are doing it wrong the way I see it & there could be a better fix that many have agreed on so far including yourself.

I know that we all want to see new updates that would make things better & also that they can't make everyone happy always. I believe it is worth discussing on the issues if it means bringing players togather to find the common ground we can agree on.

Btw, I also would like to see the new story missions on upcoming updates as well same as you do. :)