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Tekershee
Jan 19, 2009, 10:28 AM
As you all know, I decided to create some Masterforce videos. Mainly because JP got the visual nerf for techniques and incase we got it, I wanted to remember what a full party looks like.

So thank you for everyone who joined in!

There was slowdown at times but overall I think they all came out quite nicely.

So without further ado, here are the links.
They should all be in HD already when you click on the link.
I recommend clicking the link above the video where it says Youtube to open the video in a new tab/window!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbFtIRRyUow&fmt=22
Megid Spam in White Beast - Highly Recommended


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ynLlTzUPsY&fmt=22
- Diga Diga Diga


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_392VN6yCr8&fmt=22
- SW S2 = Just ice techs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKGVVCovO1g&fmt=22
- Just a video of random tech spam.
Wall of dambarta and the regrants looks awesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrS--YDgdnE&fmt=22
Another WB run - Diga spam on boss, looks hectic.

And also to raise more discussion, if we do get it (tonight?), happy? sad?
Unfortunately, it is quite blinding and can slow down consoles so I guess it makes more sense to have the nerf, but as an option! Not just force it on everyone.

Hope you like the videos.

ashley50
Jan 19, 2009, 10:44 AM
Happy of course...:)

'sides, the caster can still see it anyways. Which is good for him/her

Cracka_J
Jan 19, 2009, 10:57 AM
Don't care anymore. I still get my tech effects, the people that get jacked are the ones who don't have leveled techs.

If you ever need help with more tech spam vids (pending we don't get the fubar fix), I can lend a hand. I got everything 41+, and only missing 4 techs to 50, which I should have done this week :D

Tekershee
Jan 19, 2009, 10:59 AM
Well I think that'll be enough for now! No more videos planned.

I always show people my PSU vids, even people who dont play it and they always go meh at my videos.

I showed them the Diga video and they were interested in how hectic and insane it was!
And it does look pretty exciting I think.
When the nerf comes, it's not going to look so pretty.

chaoskila
Jan 19, 2009, 11:05 AM
bleh wish the xbox could run that with out slowdown

darkante
Jan 19, 2009, 11:07 AM
I donīt mind the nerf at all, canīt enjoy prettier visual if the game lags alot for meh.

LuigiMario
Jan 19, 2009, 11:18 AM
I donīt mind the nerf at all, canīt enjoy prettier visual if the game lags alot for meh.

^Theres always some random guy that comes into a thread and downplays everything.

Vent
Jan 19, 2009, 11:37 AM
Great. Now some people won't complain about the other master type lagging them. US/EU please?

Shou
Jan 19, 2009, 12:53 PM
That was f***ing epic! xD

Sexy_Raine
Jan 19, 2009, 01:35 PM
Meh, I don't care anymore. I'll be training awesome Gunmaster by the time that update comes.

amtalx
Jan 19, 2009, 01:55 PM
Lol, I got irritated just watching that.

*waits patiently for nerf*

autumn
Jan 19, 2009, 02:08 PM
Wicked videos ^_-

Tekershee
Jan 19, 2009, 07:12 PM
Well, the videos are meant to be like that! You'd rarely get 6 MFs playing in one party! And I don't think MFs mind other MFs. It's just non-MFs :(

DreXxiN
Jan 19, 2009, 07:46 PM
Wow, I'm a fighter, I don't know what you guys are talking about with the nerf. I'd love to see fireworks like that in my party xD.

amtalx
Jan 20, 2009, 12:00 AM
I think part of the problem is ALL that you can see is fireworks. Admittedly, its cool to look at in a video, but its not really practical for a party.

darkante
Jan 20, 2009, 12:04 AM
Wow, I'm a fighter, I don't know what you guys are talking about with the nerf. I'd love to see fireworks like that in my party xD.

If one-two Masterforce can make massive slowdown for me, i canīt imagine a full party with lv 41+ techs. I donīt really mind the spells, but my PC do...a HUGE amount.

Tekershee
Jan 20, 2009, 02:51 AM
I knew it! Tech nerf! That's why I was forced to do the videos so early :(

Para
Jan 20, 2009, 03:08 AM
I remember the Digas that made my vid card driver crash x_x

Vent
Jan 20, 2009, 04:00 AM
Maybe I should tell the tale of a fried CPU, GPU and motherboard while playing PSU vanilla...don't worry, Insurance paid all. ^^ But boy, they aren't going to sell insurance to me ever again.

unicorn
Jan 20, 2009, 08:27 AM
Ya'll are probably over-exagerating....

I never had tech lag or slowdown or crashing of any kind. And I have a old-ass laptop and play on PS2 as well. I'm under the impression most of the complaints are just from blindness, which is kinda dumb since fighters and gunners can still kill noticeably quicker than MF and FT.

Meh, whoever cries the loudest I guess.

Vent
Jan 20, 2009, 09:16 AM
I never had tech lag or slowdown or crashing of any kind. And I have a old-ass laptop and play on PS2 as well. I'm under the impression most of the complaints are just from blindness, which is kinda dumb since fighters and gunners can still kill noticeably quicker than MF and FT.

a few ≠ all

Also, looking at a tech from a far doesn't seem to lag much, but standing in the middle of one does. Gifoie seems to lag most for me. I lag myself every time I cast a level 21 (at the moment) Gifoie. I've a decent computer that I'm pretty sure is better than your laptop. So how do you explain that? I lag because I cry too much?


Meh, whoever cries the loudest I guess.

Using a personal attack while you're 'under the impression'?

To everyone here, use valid arguments, not personal attacks to convince someone of your statement.

unicorn
Jan 20, 2009, 11:10 AM
Lol I wasn't attacking you. I meant that the majority of the players in this game are Fighters, and ST is going to cater to them before anyone else.

Exactly, my laptop has terrible RAM and an old Graphics Card. And I rarely lag.

I don't have any information to make a "personal attack" on you.

Ryno
Jan 20, 2009, 11:15 AM
I hope acrotecher Support spells are not nerf. because thats what i am mostly am support. =)

OG GhettoNerd
Jan 20, 2009, 12:33 PM
After reading what is going down tonight with this maintenance I got really happy when I read about all the bug fix's. The only thing that was A big let down was the Tech's being displayed as lvl 21 tech's!!!! This, for me, is going to kill my MasterForce!!!! Every morning as well as at night, before I went to bed and after I had been running missions all day, I would spend a few hour's just leveling spells!!! Now to hear all that work was in vain is a BIG BLOW to me!!! Now if the Technics still come off as level 41 to me, but only 21 to others then the blow is not as bad, but still a blow none the less. I know this was done to make all the other players happy who aren't playing as Force's or MasterForce's and who are experiancing slow down, but what about making the non Ank Jabroga or Tornado Dance user's happy by not allowing these attacks to knock enemy's all over the place! There is now no real way to tell apart the ForteTecher's or MasterForce's without a player telling you. Even as a ForteTecher this would upset me to play all this time with Technics maxed at level 40, just to have them reverted back to a lvl 21 Technic. Maybe these blow's would not be as bad if the MasterForce class had somthing given to them to compensate for this, but number one, we would have to have more people than just my self to complain about the Technics just as the MasterForce's were complained on, and number two, the compensation would have to be BIG!!!!!!

ashley50
Jan 20, 2009, 12:49 PM
^ You made a thread with the same content...

OG GhettoNerd
Jan 20, 2009, 01:05 PM
Yes I did, after I made the comment here first. I then thought it would be a good thread to start and hope that others would see. Sorry if I botherd anyone by bumping my self. Just passionate about the topic.

Atomic646
Jan 20, 2009, 01:25 PM
I kinda hate the hole vis nerf, but lmao on the Megid spam, On xbox 360 i never noticed the little ball in side 41+megid

OldCoot
Jan 20, 2009, 02:15 PM
Well, the videos are meant to be like that! You'd rarely get 6 MFs playing in one party! And I don't think MFs mind other MFs. It's just non-MFs :(

Nice videos. Glad you got them done now before "nerf".

Good point about how the party would work. Not too bad if you are playing MF also but anyone else would not be able to play. As a gunner I wouldn't be able to see what I was shooting at and with the increase of PP consumption, that isn't so good. As a FM or any kind of striking class, no way to really play.

Tekershee
Jan 20, 2009, 04:34 PM
I quite like attacking in the middle of huge techs, maybe Radiga is the most annoying as that actually blocks what you can see.

I do admit, playing any other class I wouldn't see too well.

I don't get slowdown even with 6 MFs (unless recording with Fraps, and even that works quite well) so that's not a problem for me.

I'd love to see other peoples techs, because they just look good.
FTs before would throw their level 31 techs around, and I'd be amazed. Then a FT came in with level 11 techs and I was like "well .. great".

Ultimately, the best solution would be to give us the option.
I paid for the luxury of be able to run games at higher settings and I would like to see my techs lol!

But oh well.
Yes indeed, Edward's post strongly suggested that a title update was coming, so I planned to make the videos the very next day!
Tough to find that many Masterforces around UK times I'll have you know but I think they came out great!

Ail
Jan 20, 2009, 05:49 PM
thx for the videos, they are great! i'd like to have the option to choice too.

i dont play a techer class and maybe i'm crazy, but i love to play as fighter while techers make me blind xD this just make the game a lil less easy (not much tho). since psu vanilla i learned to use my ears to locate monsters and attacks, also the minimap is very useful! oh well, maybe is just me.. anyway.. thx again to all that made possible these cool videos before the nerf ^-^

Follisimo
Jan 20, 2009, 06:18 PM
The whole nerf probably had more to do with letting other people view what is ahead of them instead of a slowdown. I never had a slowdown because of skills being spammed. Only thing that was semi annoying was not being able to see in front of me, but it didn't matter much.

Enigmatic
Jan 21, 2009, 01:28 PM
Hopefully in the future this visual nerf will change to a slider option, like "see other technics at level: 1, 11, 21, 31, or 41" kind of thing, but of course it will take maybe a year until that update comes around.

OldCoot
Jan 21, 2009, 02:07 PM
I quite like attacking in the middle of huge techs, maybe Radiga is the most annoying as that actually blocks what you can see.

I do admit, playing any other class I wouldn't see too well.

I don't get slowdown even with 6 MFs (unless recording with Fraps, and even that works quite well) so that's not a problem for me.

I'd love to see other peoples techs, because they just look good.
FTs before would throw their level 31 techs around, and I'd be amazed. Then a FT came in with level 11 techs and I was like "well .. great".

Ultimately, the best solution would be to give us the option.
I paid for the luxury of be able to run games at higher settings and I would like to see my techs lol!

But oh well.
Yes indeed, Edward's post strongly suggested that a title update was coming, so I planned to make the videos the very next day!
Tough to find that many Masterforces around UK times I'll have you know but I think they came out great!


From your post I think you play the PC version? On the 360 even my own 41+ diga tends to slow things down from my point of view. I try to get point blank to use it instead of casting it across the room. I am also glad this came out being after so many casts I get used to what something looks like and the surprise factor goes away. Once gone I think consider this:

Is said tech lagging me?
Can I see what I am hitting?

And I usually say yes to the first and no to the second.

I like the ideas to have a choice and if I could I would set everything to low level, being I would rather cut out the lag.

amtalx
Jan 21, 2009, 02:18 PM
Hopefully in the future this visual nerf will change to a slider option, like "see other technics at level: 1, 11, 21, 31, or 41" kind of thing, but of course it will take maybe a year until that update comes around.

This. I would just have everything set to level 1. Its more fitting anyway. A tiny little explosion to signify how much damage techs do. That's right. I went there. :D

darkante
Jan 21, 2009, 03:05 PM
Hopefully in the future this visual nerf will change to a slider option, like "see other technics at level: 1, 11, 21, 31, or 41" kind of thing, but of course it will take maybe a year until that update comes around.

If that would show up, i can guarantee that i would just leave it at lv 1.
Less lag, more fun.

RemiusTA
Jan 21, 2009, 04:47 PM
I still cant believe they actually did this. They just took all the fun of being a Force and chucked it out the window. I dont care about everyone else complaining, its still not fair. Every class that complains STILL kills more efficiently than forces, and gets catering to with almost every frigging title update.

And its not like we DESERVE such an unfair cosmetic downgrade, either. Out of 27 weapon types in this game, only 3 of them are Force Specific. That means only 11% of this game's weapons are Force Specific, i.e. USEFUL to a force. Which means there is about a 91% chance you will not find an S-rank weapon that a force will be able to equip. They have the lowest amount of rares to hunt, the lowest number of items to be efficient with, and have the absolute worse life expectancy on this game. Now, we cant even enjoy feeling like a badass anymore, like that guy swinging around his Agito, or the other firing his neat little laser cannon or colorful music-note-shooter. Hell, they even left techers out of an Erdel/Ely weapon.



Aside from running around with a fucking Psycho Wand, Forte/Master class forces have nothing to set them apart from Acrotechers or Wartechers anymore. Except for damage. But we all know DAMAGE isnt the reason we spammed PSO, or still play PSU.


Fuck it. Hopefully in the future, the 360 version of this game wont suck, and they wont have to include the nerf.

Suzuka Miyamoto
Jan 21, 2009, 07:52 PM
In your videos were you using Har/quick? Or is that the cast speed of the masterforce?

Shinko
Jan 21, 2009, 08:02 PM
If that would show up, i can guarantee that i would just leave it at lv 1.
Less lag, more fun.

XD so would I

ashley50
Jan 21, 2009, 08:04 PM
This. I would just have everything set to level 1. Its more fitting anyway. A tiny little explosion to signify how much damage techs do. That's right. I went there. :D

lol that would be funny XD

SupaHype
Jan 21, 2009, 08:37 PM
I understand how everyone who isnt a techer feels. The big beautiful spells slow down the game and mess up combos. At higher levels they probably dont give everyone else a chance to hit each creature.

But for those who arent techers try to understand it from the techers point of view too. imagine doing tons of runs to get a pallet of high percent S rank weapons, then a visual nerf is implimented that doesnt allow anyone else to see that hot weapon, they just see the a rank version. or even working up a PA to level 41, but it just looked like a regular sword swing to everyone else. It would be something like that

This is a game that is based off visuals, Thats why the double agito sells for less money than the carrigune,.... Well the nerf is here and we cant do anything about it. This does though as someone mentioned earlier in this post pretty much put the MF class in the coffin though... Those visuals are pretty much the main draw for it. FT stats are better in most areas.... and a harquick should clear up the slight speed difference...

Sad to see them go but i understand that something had to happen....

The_Brimada
Jan 21, 2009, 08:48 PM
Love the vids!

About the nerf its a good thing I don't play MF or FT anyway or else I'd be a bit ticked that I can't show my techs off to everyone.

At the same time I know it affects the gameplay experience of console players negatively, but my PC can handle it. I rather see techs in their full glory(since I never plan on going FT nor MF to get them there myself.)

It was good seeing them while it lasted =/

They really should make it an option, not forced choice.

darkante
Jan 22, 2009, 12:01 AM
I understand how everyone who isnt a techer feels. The big beautiful spells slow down the game and mess up combos. At higher levels they probably dont give everyone else a chance to hit each creature.

But for those who arent techers try to understand it from the techers point of view too. imagine doing tons of runs to get a pallet of high percent S rank weapons, then a visual nerf is implimented that doesnt allow anyone else to see that hot weapon, they just see the a rank version. or even working up a PA to level 41, but it just looked like a regular sword swing to everyone else. It would be something like that

This is a game that is based off visuals, Thats why the double agito sells for less money than the carrigune,.... Well the nerf is here and we cant do anything about it. This does though as someone mentioned earlier in this post pretty much put the MF class in the coffin though... Those visuals are pretty much the main draw for it. FT stats are better in most areas.... and a harquick should clear up the slight speed difference...

Sad to see them go but i understand that something had to happen....

I have some high leveled techniques as well on my force and mah P-Wand and other force goodies, but i donīt really care to show it off.
This is how i look from a "techer" point of view. Sorry to break it too you. :P

Jian-Zero
Jan 22, 2009, 02:57 AM
Here's is how I think of it.

If other people are annoyed by your flashy techs, then they're not impressed. Impressing them is the whole point of working them up. And if they're not impressed, but rather annoyed, kills the whole point of everything.

And yes, of all the weapons in the game, the techer has the least types and the least new ones available.

On the other hand though, the techer, the Masterforce is the only type in the game that can fully utilize all his and her learned attack arts of the forte predecessor past 50, since a Gunmaster and a Fighmaster cannot. Only four weapons of each can be used for each associative art that can reach Lvl 50. This means a lot of bullets and skills previously learned on other weaposn, such as double sabers for fighters and grenade launchers for gunners useless for a master type.

Switch to an acrotecher, and one can get the support types to lvl 50.

In short, the techer---moving between MF and AT, is the only type that can move all pertaining arts to Lvl 50.

Tekershee
Jan 22, 2009, 04:13 AM
In your videos were you using Har/quick? Or is that the cast speed of the masterforce?

Har/Smart in the video.

RemiusTA
Jan 22, 2009, 08:36 AM
I have some high leveled techniques as well on my force and mah P-Wand and other force goodies, but i donīt really care to show it off.
This is how i look from a "techer" point of view. Sorry to break it too you. :P

Well, you're on the minority end of the "techer point of view." Not all of us are okay with wasting our fucking time.

Vickie
Jan 22, 2009, 08:42 AM
I think its fuckin ridiculous.... Im no force and ive never played seriously as a force, and this still pisses me off because i have friends who were lookin forward to masterforce for those graphics and they just get shitted on they need to find a way to bring the effects back and reduce the lag they cause.

SupaHype
Jan 22, 2009, 12:10 PM
Well, you're on the minority end of the "techer point of view." Not all of us are okay with wasting our fucking time.


I have to agree RemiusTA, DarkAnte. Think about playing this game without the visual bonuses. Not just from a techer standpoint, but from any standpoint. Think about spending time to level up attack PA's to 30 or 40 then some nerf comes that doesnt allow anyone else to see them.

We probably dont even realize it but im sure motivation to level up PA's or Techniques at some point came from seeing the result another players time put in to level thier own PA's and techs. This shouldnt be looked at with the "oh, sorry, too bad for you techers" attitude. This will definitly affect the game in bigger ways than we see right now..

First off, it litterally killed any argument in switching to MAsterforce... I logged on to Universe 1 and went to the White beast area (always crowded) & even after looking at all the joinable parties... i only saw 2 MF... Sega killed their own new class.... I switched back to FT after this...

ashley50
Jan 22, 2009, 12:18 PM
i only saw 2 MF, Sega killed their own new class...Im switched back to FT after this...

Good...that means those who stay MFs are the ones who don't care about the visual nerf at all. And will continue to play as MF as they liked the class and not to 'show off'

OldCoot
Jan 22, 2009, 12:29 PM
I think its fuckin ridiculous.... Im no force and ive never played seriously as a force, and this still pisses me off because i have friends who were lookin forward to masterforce for those graphics and they just get shitted on they need to find a way to bring the effects back and reduce the lag they cause.

My 360 crashed again this morning and I just know the 3 rings of death is currently cooking. I also wanted to know if I were to turn down my resolution to 480P, would my own level 45 diga slow me down? Thankfully it seemed just fine at that setting and I was even able to point blank Ra Foie and cast a bunch of Gi-zonde without much effect.

At least we can still see our own 41+ techs.

Looks like we (360) users need more horsepower to pull off our own techs and then add others to the equation.

darkante
Jan 22, 2009, 02:53 PM
I have to agree RemiusTA, DarkAnte. Think about playing this game without the visual bonuses. Not just from a techer standpoint, but from any standpoint. Think about spending time to level up attack PA's to 30 or 40 then some nerf comes that doesnt allow anyone else to see them.

We probably dont even realize it but im sure motivation to level up PA's or Techniques at some point came from seeing the result another players time put in to level thier own PA's and techs. This shouldnt be looked at with the "oh, sorry, too bad for you techers" attitude. This will definitly affect the game in bigger ways than we see right now..

First off, it litterally killed any argument in switching to MAsterforce... I logged on to Universe 1 and went to the White beast area (always crowded) & even after looking at all the joinable parties... i only saw 2 MF... Sega killed their own new class.... I switched back to FT after this...
I probably will still change to MF if i get all my spells to a very high level.
Sure it is sad that people wonīt have an option to decide to agree with nerf or not, but i never had that mind set.

When i level techniques, itīs just for my amusement. Always had been.
So this "nerf news" never made me flinch..not a bit.

RemiusTA
Jan 22, 2009, 05:41 PM
Good...that means those who stay MFs are the ones who don't care about the visual nerf at all. And will continue to play as MF as they liked the class and not to 'show off'



You dont want to wear a brand new jacket to school only to find 6 other people wearing it. You dont want to live in a neighborhood where every house is the same model/color. You dont want to work for 9 years and never get promoted. You dont want to work out for 10 years and look the same as that fat guy on the side of you. And WE dont like spending hours upon hours grinding our technics just for nobody but ourselves to see them, nor do we like the idea of using Maxed out, Lv50 technics fireballs while that noob with the Lv23 fireball (and the rest of his team) cant see the difference.

So piss on us for looking cooler than you so much its annoying. Oh, and Damn your Jarboga, damn your Majarra, damn your Tornado, damn your Grenade launchers, damn you murdering the boss before he even gets to attack, and everything else that makes my technic miss and me waste PP. Because YOU aren't annoying or need to be nerfed at all.


This arguement is stupid. /thread already.



Edit: Yeah i just realized how long that rant was. Kind of overdid it.

Tekershee
Jan 22, 2009, 06:00 PM
Don't kill my thread!

People must remember what MF spam looks like!

amtalx
Jan 22, 2009, 06:00 PM
lots of bleeding and whining

Not all of us play for validation by other players.

LuigiMario
Jan 22, 2009, 06:26 PM
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd131/TheGoIsWin/FacePalm.jpg



....can you people really not understand this or something?

This should help you and anyone else that thinks that "showoff" comment is cute.

Have you ever asked yourself why people have (and use) S-rank Weapons when they have superior A-ranks in their pallete? Ever asked yourself why the Kazarod is so expensive? Carrigune? Perhaps the more useless items..Aura Field? Puyoment Aura? Rappy Mode? Blackheart?

No? Okay, ever asked yourself why people shell out the Meseta for clothing when they can spend it on something more...productive? Why people give up their expensive A and S rank items to that offering box to get a useless clothing set? Why people hunt for rare weapons that they dont need?

Still not getting it? Alright...ever asked why Fortefighters use any weapon other than Spears and Axes when Majarra and Jarbroga definitely shell out the most DPS? Why Newmans choose any class other than Fortetecher? Why beasts choose any class other than Fortefighter? Why Casts choose any class other than Fortegunner? Why humans choose any class other than Hybrids? Have you pondered why a Makeover shop exists? Why you can change your hair, your eyes, your lips, accessories, your pants, shoes, shirt? Breast size? Height and Girth? Do you think there's a reason why you can choose between Hunter, Ranger, or force? Why Wartecher, Guntecher, Acrotecher, Acrofighter, Fighgunner, Protranser, Fortefighter, Fortetecher, Fortegunner, Masterforce, Fighmaster or Gunmaster even exists?

Ill tell you why. THIS IS AN MMO.

We dont pay $10 a month to play Solo. We dont join random parties just to stare at numbers. We dont buy good looking clothing to look good for ourselves. C-rank weapons dont look like A-rank weapons for a reason. A-rank weapons dont look like S-rank weapons for a reason. Rare weapons are rare for a reason. Rare weapons are expensive for a reason. We are allowed to view other peoples equipment, level, Photon Arts and class for a reason. PA's dont start off without 3 combos for no reason. Higher-level monsters aren't reskinned for no reason.

This entire GAME is about "Showing Off". Every MMORPG, F2P or P2P, is based upon the crucial PRINCIPLE of "showing off."
if EVERY single weapon on this game had a C-rank model, this game would suck. If every character on this game looked the same, this game would suck. If every article of clothing had one pallete, this game would suck. If every technic in this game retained its lv 1 form, this game would suck. If every photon art in this game simply increased damage (equal to total DPS) but kept its first combo, this game would suck. This is not a Self-Esteem issue or some Elitist complex. This is why we play the damn game.

You dont want to wear a brand new jacket to school only to find 6 other people wearing it. You dont want to live in a neighborhood where every house is the same model/color. You dont want to work for 9 years and never get promoted. You dont want to work out for 10 years and look the same as that fat guy on the side of you. And WE dont like spending hours upon hours grinding our technics just for nobody but ourselves to see them, nor do we like the idea of using Maxed out, Lv50 technics fireballs while that noob with the Lv23 fireball (and the rest of his team) cant see the difference.

So piss on us for looking cooler than you so much its annoying. Oh, and Damn your Jarboga, damn your Majarra, damn your Tornado, damn your Grenade launchers, damn you murdering the boss before he even gets to attack, and everything else that makes my technic miss and me waste PP. Because YOU aren't annoying or need to be nerfed at all.


This arguement is stupid. /thread already.






Jesus

RemiusTA
Jan 22, 2009, 06:52 PM
Yeah sorry about that, didn't realize how long that was...>_>



Not all of us play for validation by other players.

Yes, thats the point. And not all of us can enjoy playing a class whose only real advantge is a visual one that nobody else can tell exists.

It doesnt matter if the line is drawn straight through or between the population. Either way, this was too extreme of a change to be forced on the game with no choice whatsoever.


That huge superant was to prove to you how "lol no showing off" and "not all of us need validation by other players" doesnt apply to the situation as much as you like to think it does. Its really easy to say when it doesnt apply, and its pretty annoying to those whom it affects.

autumn
Jan 22, 2009, 07:29 PM
Thank you Remus! :cheers:

SupaHype
Jan 22, 2009, 08:21 PM
Jesus

You hit it on the nose...RemiusTA
You all have to in some way agree with what RemiusTA said... Even though I understand he was visibly emotional about it... We all play this game to show off in some way.....

Thats a big part of what playing video games is. The guy whos crazy fast and sweaty at the arcade on Dance Dance Revolution. The person who wins a gamestop Halo or Gears tourament. Beating Ninja Gaiden, Achievement points, beating your friends at wii bowling or tennis. Or standing in line at midnight to get the a new system/game on the first day.

shoot, even wanting a real pretty model girlfriend, a nice car, to be paid alot or be rich. In real good shape, To be good at what you are good at... That is life on earth.

So if someone spends 1000+ hours to get their character "uber" then they deserve that. It could have happened to any class, but this time, the nerf took that away from techers. It was seeing another players Gizonde over 31 that made me push all my Gi spells over 31. That wont happen any more. It could have been a level 31 PA that made anyone else want to get their PA's to that level too.... but imagine if you were not able to see that anymore. Thats what this nerf did.

its really small minded to look at this as "im fine.. this didnt effect me", because next time it could effect you....

Spend 1000 hours doing anything that is important to you, then have the results/benefits/admiration for your work be made invisible to everyone else and just look like something average.

If that doesnt make sense, then i dont know what ever can...

EnJoii
Jan 22, 2009, 08:46 PM
Some of the OP's older tech videos are the reason I've been running SW to level up my spells.

Some of my happiest moments have been after I've gotten a spell to 31, and going to show it off to some of my FM friends. Their "oohs" and "ahhs" were the only gratification I needed. My hard work had paid off.

And now, if I get a spell to the next visual level, there won't be anything to show off.

amtalx
Jan 23, 2009, 09:00 AM
Yes, thats the point. And not all of us can enjoy playing a class whose only real advantge is a visual one that nobody else can tell exists.

It doesnt matter if the line is drawn straight through or between the population. Either way, this was too extreme of a change to be forced on the game with no choice whatsoever.

That huge superant was to prove to you how "lol no showing off" and "not all of us need validation by other players" doesnt apply to the situation as much as you like to think it does. Its really easy to say when it doesnt apply, and its pretty annoying to those whom it affects.

It just strikes me as odd that your only motivation for playing a class is so that other people can see how awesome you are. What about gunners? Our bullets look the same at Lvl 1 as they do for Lvl 50. Oh noes... *panics* And if ST decided that seeing all 5 bullets from a Shotgun causes lag, so they nerfed it to one bullet, I would laugh at the notion of a single bullet dealing 5000+ damage.

Really though, get over it. You still get to see your spells, and if you though we actually cared about your ability to blot out the sun with Diga, you were wrong the whole time. This change was needed because it was negatively effecting entire parties. I'm sorry if your ego is bruised in the process.

RemiusTA
Jan 23, 2009, 09:38 AM
It just strikes me as odd that your only motivation for playing a class is so that other people can see how awesome you are. What about gunners? Our bullets look the same at Lvl 1 as they do for Lvl 50. Oh noes... *panics* And if ST decided that seeing all 5 bullets from a Shotgun causes lag, so they nerfed it to one bullet, I would laugh at the notion of a single bullet dealing 5000+ damage. Really though, get over it. You still get to see your spells, and if you though we actually cared about your ability to blot out the sun with Diga, you were wrong the whole time. This change was needed because it was negatively effecting entire parties. I'm sorry if your ego is bruised in the process.

except you have handguns, twin handguns, rifles, grenade launchers, laser cannons, shotguns, mechguns, crossbows and Bows, classes of weapons that all have very seperate models and a huge array of bullet effects. You're still missing the point.

Its not about seeing how "awesome we are". We have technics that do medicore damage, we die every other time we get hit. We have stats that only really encourage 3 different weapon types to be useful, and it becomes pointless to even equip a melee/ranged weapon off-hand that we have access too.

If you could actually read, at least 3 people on this page have already told you what the deal is. It isnt about showing off, its about what made this class fun, what made this class appealing. In all actuality, we dont HAVE any S-ranks to hunt after we get lucky and a Psycho drops. The technics are there to fill the gap.

Like we all said, if ST released a patch where every weapon you used looked like its C-rank counterpart to us, suddendly S-ranks stop being so super amazing. Suddendly, that S-rank you spent 150+ hours working towards is simply a C-rank with a yellow "S" box. We all know you'd be lying if you said that wouldnt make playing this game alot less fun.Its like being in a party full of v1 players. Nobody can see anything really about you.

Try being a V1 player in a team of AotI players. You cant see anything anyone is doing, and your shit is so basic nobody really cares. Its not about "ego" or "showing off". It makes the game fucking boring.

amtalx
Jan 23, 2009, 10:14 AM
except you have handguns, twin handguns, rifles, grenade launchers, laser cannons, shotguns, mechguns, crossbows and Bows, classes of weapons that all have very seperate models and a huge array of bullet effects. You're still missing the point.

Its not about seeing how "awesome we are". We have technics that do medicore damage, we die every other time we get hit. We have stats that only really encourage 3 different weapon types to be useful, and it becomes pointless to even equip a melee/ranged weapon off-hand that we have access too.

If you could actually read, at least 3 people on this page have already told you what the deal is. It isnt about showing off, its about what made this class fun, what made this class appealing. In all actuality, we dont HAVE any S-ranks to hunt after we get lucky and a Psycho drops. The technics are there to fill the gap.

Like we all said, if ST released a patch where every weapon you used looked like its C-rank counterpart to us, suddendly S-ranks stop being so super amazing. Suddendly, that S-rank you spent 150+ hours working towards is simply a C-rank with a yellow "S" box. We all know you'd be lying if you said that wouldnt make playing this game alot less fun.Its like being in a party full of v1 players. Nobody can see anything really about you.

Try being a V1 player in a team of AotI players. You cant see anything anyone is doing, and your shit is so basic nobody really cares. Its not about "ego" or "showing off". It makes the game fucking boring.

Everything you said is about other people seeing what you have. Period. You want other people to know how hard to worked on your spells via a massive explosion? That's other people seeing what you have. Displaying your S-ranks? Again, other people seeing what you have. Most of the time, I don't care what you have, and if I do, I'm going to check your PA list because the difference between a 41 tech and a 50 tech is pretty freakin' big. I don't know about you, but I play this game for my friends, and they certainly aren't going to wet their pants every time a get a new weapon or level up one of my techs.

I don't care what appears on other people's screens. Why? Because I can't see them. If something tangible was being taken away like movement speed, elemental modifiers, etc. then I would sympathize. But this change doesn't effect you. It effects other people. If everyone saw a Shigga Bines instead of my SNGs, I still would have busted my ass to get them (the hard way by getting two chars on the leaderboard) because I like the way it looks on MY screen and it still shits damage. If ST rolled this change out without telling you, you would never know (until someone mentioned it), which is proof positive that you DO care what other people think.

RemiusTA
Jan 23, 2009, 04:22 PM
But this change doesn't effect you. It effects other people.

...Except yes it obviously does affect me and a decent amount of people, because...well, look at this topic.



Most of the time, I don't care what you have, and if I do...Sorry, but im going to have to call bullshit on this. So you're meaning to tell me that if the same type of nerf happened to every S-rank model in this game, you wouldn't be affected at all? In the slightest bit? Oh, and dont answer this with those "well my damage would be the same so technically..." semantics either.



which is proof positive that you DO care what other people think.Yeah, well sorry im just this odd, flawed breed of human that cares what I look like and what value my wasted time is worth. Diversity among players is what makes this game fun. Maybe in other games they can get away with it, but not Phantasy Star Universe, sorry. They've wasted hundreds of hours of me and an entire class of people's time, and frankly, we are quite pissed off.


Its easy to tell the executioner to pull the switch from the spectator's seat. Im quite positive that if you were on the recieving end of something similar, you wouldnt be so smug about it.

amtalx
Jan 23, 2009, 05:19 PM
I probably should have been more clear. What I meant by effect was a 'tangible' in game effect from the point of view of the player, of which there is none.

Call BS all you want. I have my own motivations for rare hunting. Admiration of my weapons by others is great, but I have way more pride in my bullets. Any jackhole can buy nice weapons. As I mentioned before, I got my SNGs the hard way, by getting two characters on the leaderboard. However lame it is, I think its an achievement to get two SNGs without buying them. Does anyone know that when they look at my pallet? Nope. They probably think I'm rich and bought them, but in my eyes, that doesn't diminish my accomplishment because I know I did it. The things I work on rarely have anything to do with other players.

I have a techer too. She'll live through this. The biggest issue about this for me is that its for the greater good, but no, the minority needs to have their glitter and fireworks at the cost of everyone else in the party. Let's face it MFs. You are pretty useless in a party. Don't make it worse by having your lasting contribution to a party be slowdown. If there were a switch that high end PC users or people that don't mind could have to leave 41+ techs on, that would be great, but that's not the case right now.

Rayokarna
Jan 23, 2009, 05:34 PM
I don't see whay this tech nerf is a big deal. It allows everyone enjoy the game.I think seeing the same tech over and over again will get boring after you cast it on the same mob the 7th time in 4 seconds or so. Since I both use a PS2 and a low end PC, it makes me generally happy I can melee or use a shotgun without the MF in the part constantly putting me in slow mo(and the fact that most 31-50 techs are so big the screen just goes white) while my system tries to keep up. So I welcome it.

Billy Mitchell
Jan 23, 2009, 05:49 PM
I probably should have been more clear. What I meant by effect was a 'tangible' in game effect from the point of view of the player, of which there is none.

Call BS all you want. I have my own motivations for rare hunting. Admiration of my weapons by others is great, but I have way more pride in my bullets. Any jackhole can buy nice weapons. As I mentioned before, I got my SNGs the hard way, by getting two characters on the leaderboard. However lame it is, I think its an achievement to get two SNGs without buying them. Does anyone know that when they look at my pallet? Nope. They probably think I'm rich and bought them, but in my eyes, that doesn't diminish my accomplishment because I know I did it. The things I work on rarely have anything to do with other players.

I have a techer too. She'll live through this. The biggest issue about this for me is that its for the greater good, but no, the minority needs to have their glitter and fireworks at the cost of everyone else in the party. Let's face it MFs. You are pretty useless in a party. Don't make it worse by having your lasting contribution to a party be slowdown. If there were a switch that high end PC users or people that don't mind could have to leave 41+ techs on, that would be great, but that's not the case right now.
I never realized you were such a dick.

Vent
Jan 23, 2009, 05:52 PM
Tsk. The world isn't black and white. We partially play this to show-off. Not all of your arguments are valid for all people. Not all MMO's is to show-off. PSU isn't a MMO in the first place. Agreeing with you in some way doesn't mean you're completely right. My characters looks how she looks because I like it, if I was to show off my character, I would use other clothes, spam those 'emotion' bubbles and face cut-ins. But I don't. There are enough solo'ers out there that don't give much about other people seeing their palette and are paying 10 dollar (or 10 euros) to play solo. Sure, it's nice to have people see your nice leveled PAs, tech animations and whatnot .

You're basically claiming showing off has 'intrinsic value', which in philosophical terms means it's a goal by itself. The most common intrinsic value is 'happiness'. We play this game to show-off? Maybe, but in the end it's to play it for fun. And there is more ways than one to reach that. Taking off a way to show-off doesn't mean the game or in this case, a class is not enjoyable anymore to play. You can still show-off with all the other reasons you mentioned.

To be honest, I haven't really cared much about this tech-nerf. I barely notice it myself. I even needed to tell my friend that there's a tech-nerf. He didn't even notice the difference in my tech animations <_<. Although he isn't a regular player.

SupaHype
Jan 23, 2009, 08:17 PM
Let's face it MFs. You are pretty useless in a party. Don't make it worse by having your lasting contribution to a party be slowdown.

Hey Amtalx, people dont just play this game to help you. For everyone that thinks like this, People who choose techers arent necessarily choosing their classes based on how people feel about them. Techers are not interns for the other class types... Yes any thing someone can do to help out the party is good, but i never felt like another class was useless because they couldnt do something particular to help me....

I ve maxed out my FT class (FT20, lev 150, 13 attack spells over 31) and i dont care what party i join. I never have to wait for some particular class to save my character. Yes buffs are nice. I feel this strongly because of the time i spent as an MF (i switched back due to the nerf giving up 6 lev 41+ spells) but to call a class useless just cause they cant help you is nutz....

I hate giving up the visuals, but i can tell you that there were many seriously negative issues with the MF class stats vs those of the other tech classes. What this nerf did for me was give me the last reason i needed to switch back to FT... but i can tell you that i dont feel that my char can move forward very much at this point...

I believe your techer is lev 117 and not your main char.... so yes, they will make it through. You probably didnt have too many High level spells (over 31) so this nerf does not bother you much. But the introduction of the master classes was supposed to provide an opportunity to move forward for each class.

First off, the MF stats are broken, so the visuals were pretty much the only bonus left, Then sega took that away. That means that techers mostly dont have the same opportunity to move forward like the other classes do. With already broken stats, then a visual nerf, there is little reason to play the class...

Add on top of that however many thousand hours techers put into their characters, just like the time u put into yours, and that should help you understand the feelings in the "rant" from RemiusTA. Every primary techer felt it. Some very emotional, some more reserved. But it is what it is. it sucks... but the "throwing the baby out with the bathwater nerf" was done for the betterment of the majority, i guess....... i just wish there was a different way for them to handle it...

amtalx
Jan 23, 2009, 10:52 PM
I never realized you were such a dick.

I do my best. :p

@SupaHype: I don't think Forces are 'nurses' but its nice if Forces do Force things when in a party. I stick to gunner stuff when I'm in a party because that's what I can do to be of the most help.

As for my comment about MFs, people probably took that the wrong way. :p That was a mean way of saying that offensive techs don't really do what they should, and support is the only role left in a full spectrum team where Forces are second to none.

I don't use my techer that much. She has a couple spells at 31+, but they are the 'Techer 101' spells like Diga and Dambarta. I never got that much of a kick out of the visuals to begin with though. Its just icing on the cake for me. The real reason I level up PAs is to deal more damage.

I can understand that people aren't entirely comfortable with the change. I never said that not liking it makes you a bad person or anything. However, I don't get the people crying bloody murder. Its a special effect... that looks the same to you... and makes everyone else's game BETTER. The only people that have actually had something taken from them are onlookers, who this was done for the benefit of anyway.

RemiusTA
Jan 24, 2009, 01:42 AM
Let's face it MFs. You are pretty useless in a party. Don't make it worse by having your lasting contribution to a party be slowdown. ....Wow.

Anyway, while we're on the subject of "showing off", lets just get something clear here lol. Someone before me just mentioned that we really dont give a fuck about you personally. You can not like my technics, but if you think im just useless, then I really could care less. The visual nerf just annoys us in ways you obviously lack the capacity to understand...and I see why now. You say you play this game for your "friends", but i highly doubt you have too many; only a true penis would say something like that.


------------------------------------


Well anyway, i see no real reason to continue this. My main is a Fortefighter/Fighmaster anyway, but my Force was where most of my real fun in this game came from. Leveling up my technics was more than just for damage -- it was like equipping the coolest armor and weapons ever, being able to walk into a crowd of enemies and set the fucking earth on fire. Not like I really cared if anyone else cared or not anyway, its the principle that counts.

Now, I cant help but feel like im playing around with an Acrotecher with S-rank Rods. I still feel like im blowing shit up, but that "coolest armor and weapons ever" feeling is completely destroyed. I cant even use my funny little Cut-in chats with the voiceovers and make funny references anymore when i use my oversized spells, becuase nobody knows what the fuck im talking about.

I cant have nearly as much fun with my favroite character anymore. No more "HOLY GOD what the...was that you jesus?" from the locals and newbies, no more lame "KATON NO JUTSU" jokes. No more parting with other Force mains and laying visual ragnarok to the environment. No more use for Gi- spells or Dam- spells, i only used them in battle because ive been told they look awesome past 30. (save for Dambarta, which is useful.)

Well, I think ill just play my broken ass FF/FM until this game is completley worn out. My force, unless im solo'ing for Rares or playing with friends, isnt even fun anymore. Perhaps if the update (which is coming 2012) upgrades our technic damage, or gives us multiple hitboxes or something, ill go back to being a force.


F-ck you Sega. Your quick-fix methods have screwed me over yet again, now your game isnt nearly as fun anymore.

Asahina
Jan 24, 2009, 02:10 AM
Something that I cannot understand that if this "nerf" is going completely against Masterforce, then Sega, why did you take it all the way to 21? It would be nice to have a definite answer for this. With this, you have also nerfed the fortetecher as well. Heck, I wasn't even a masterforce and never even planned to be one and I am very pissed about this nerf still. Its not about showing off, it was about having a discussion topic that we techers shared with each other. I know it not much to a fighter or a gunner, but techers who actually play it as a main character - it is important. But I guess since we are considered the "minority" were we pretty much segregated from the game and made out as outcasts. Thank you, Sega, we really appreciate it.

amtalx
Jan 24, 2009, 10:07 AM
My comment about MFs was geared more towards ST's bungling of the gameplay mechanics than a personal attack on MFs (although it definitely came out that way). Its no mystery that MFs are more glass than cannon. Their ratio if damage potential to survivability is way off. Gunner's SE is pointless in a party too. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

You're right. We aren't going to see eye to eye on this, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll never understand why making other people go "wow" is more important than every other person's play experience in your party. The good of the few over the good if the many I suppose. If gunners did something that was a detriment to gameplay, I'd give ST near carte blanche to fix it. If I have to run around in wire-frame mode on everyone else's screen, so be it.