Memory. Taking notes?

[Kent]

So it seems to me that people, in general, are quite forgetful. This is something that not only surfaces on a daily basis with people I know, but this is something that came up all throughout college as well - it may have been the case in schooling prior to that, but all prior schooling I attended was full of people who were both a combination of not trying and provably moronic... Not to mention on the other end of the country.

Lets start with college.

The very first class we ever had, when the group of students I was with started, was a class called "College Success." Basically, the class was how to be a good student - this entailed how to research properly, taking notes, mnemonics, study habits, communication, etc. Very good things that, frankly, should come naturally to people who are serious about getting through college, right?

A couple quarters in, and we get to the meaty stuff - we start programming, we're taking a class on logic and rhetoric (i.e. Successful Arguing 101)... Those kinds of things, things that aren't introductory/preparatory classes or the weakest of general education stuffs (like the aforementioned "College Success"). The same group with which I started was here with me in all of my classes this quarter, which was great, because I'd get to know them and we could talk about whatever during breaks and all that jazz. However, there was a problem: People didn't "get" programming. I had prior experience working with computers, so the whole logical process made sense to me - but despite that I had never touched a piece of code before in my life... Myself and Mr. "database programmer that's going back to college to get his IT degree" are the only ones that actually get it.

No big deal. I'll just offer help during breaks and whatnot. As it turned out, they approached me for help before I approached them - but that's a good thing, and I was happy to help (especially with the synergy between teaching and learning going on).

...Now I like to think that my explanations are both thurough and simplistic enough to be gotten and make sense to people. I like to think that I do an adequate job of supplementing the education of others. However... Things just didn't stick. To the same people, I'd have to repeatedly explain the simplest of virtues of variables, what cout and cin do, function structure, decision statements - nothing ever stuck. Long story short, most of the people failed this class and dropped out of the program simply because once they got their feet wet with code, they'd draw a blank on it. I don't see fault in the teacher for this - after all, she did her job and gave me a good foundation in C++. Up until that point, I could rightfully say that everything I knew about C++ I learned from that teacher, in that class, and that there's virtually no reason for everyone to be failing as miserably as they were, especially granted that they were persuing extra help outside of class.

Now, granted, a good five or six of the people spent their time in class... Not playing World of Warcraft, but rather, botting it, which apparently took entire control of their computers due to the implementation of the bot or something. The rest of them, however, weren't doing such inane things, but were actually trying.

There was a point after class where the instructor approached me and asked of my programming background, because I was doing so well - and was just as surprised as she was completely confused by my complete lack of prior experience.

So, over the years of being in college, I noticed a trend: A lot of people just plain don't remember things that are taught in class, regardless of subject. I could understand not recalling the lessons for a day should, say, something big and traumatic happen right after or the night before, but I'm talking about a regular basis. A daily happening, where people will forget most of what was taught during class. Is it not paying attention? Is it an underlying memory problem?

Moreover, I noticed that most other students take notes during class - which is a good habit... But for the most part, the results aren't all that different. Personally, I don't take notes - I never have. I don't study actively outside of class, unless you were to count working on a project as both practice and study (which, I suppose, works out to the same theoretical extent).

But now, lets look outside the classroom - everyday life of people. Everyday conversations seem to be forgotten usually within a few hours, unless it was about something of particularly vested or emotional interest, or something that required active concentration during the time between conversations. People forget all sorts of random things all of the time. Is it just a difference in perceived importance? Are people expectant of one another to forget almost everything, and to have to repeat themselves? Or, perhaps, the pracice of note-taking and study is, in the end, functionally detrimental to the capacity of being able to recall minute details from memorizing things on-the-fly.

tl;dr version and summation of what I'm wondering:

Is it really that strange to be able to passively remember so many things? Is it wrong and unexpected of people to assume the other person is soaking in all of what they say?

...Or does the "normal" person's memory just have a ridiculous half-life?

...

Bonus question: If you read through this post, could you, from memory, recall the first sentence?

[Tyreek]

Very interesting rant. I believe that some can't intake all that information that quickly. I'm one for taking notes, but only if it's for things I know I can't do off the bat. Now as of this semester, I'm taking a flash scripting class. I unfortunately, can't learn everything all that fast (partially due to the teacher not wording everything properly, therefore complicating things further.) But I also have the book required for that course. I think it depends on what method one can learn from memory. The best situation for me is learning by example. For instance. I memorize how to make a button script in flash by going through a step process. "btn.addEvent" and what not. All the functions I need to learn are in the book, which helps. But even with all of that, I can still get lost in a problem dealing with it, because it's something I'm not familiar with.

As a side topic, I heard of an interesting method of memorization when I watched an Asian drama called Dragon Zakura, in which the guy stated that good night rest helps improve memorization. By a little study, plus some rest helps convert short term memory to long term. I don't know if that eveidence is entirely conclusive, but it sounds like an interesting way to help memory.

[Ceresa]

Is it really that strange to be able to passively so many things?


Seems like you forgot something here.

[Anduril]

There was a lecture in my Bio Psy class about this a few semesters back, and though I can't recall all of it the gist was basically that people do not actually have the capacity to remember everything around them or what is said and only certain stimuli are processed by the brain while the rest is just discarded; additionally becuase motor memories and visual/auditory memeories are stored in different parts of the brain certain tasks and procedures may require continuos reinforcement. At least if I remember correctly.

[Kent]

As a side topic, I heard of an interesting method of memorization when I watched an Asian drama called Dragon Zakura, in which the guy stated that good night rest helps improve memorization. By a little study, plus some rest helps convert short term memory to long term. I don't know if that eveidence is entirely conclusive, but it sounds like an interesting way to help memory.

That might be part of it. I went to bed at 10 as often as I could, throughout college, whereas my understanding is that most college students aren't so frugal with their schedules.

Seems like you forgot something here.
That's probably not the only instance. I was enthralled with watching Look Around You while typing this. :wacko:

[Kion]

Pretty much what anduril said. If your passive in class it goes in the ar and out the other. if you`re taking an interest to in it, then you`re activily listening to what the teaching is saying and using your right brain to build pictures of relationships and ideas in your head. Having goals and being actively engaged in the learning process.

In terms of being engaged, as a suggestion to your teacher; you may ask people what their goals are in the course and what they want to learn. If students taking the class understand what concepts they`ll need to know and teaches towards a goal to strive for it could help everyone in assimilating the information. Also fun compiuter programming labs are useful so that everyone can play and interact with what hey make.

First of all, humans are pleasure seakign creatures. Givning people the benefit of the doubt and assuming their more than animals is giving people too much credit in alot of situations. Think of people as animals, most people do use their brains, they just go around eating and fucking. (I apoligize in advance, don`t take that sentence too seriously)

Also my math teacher`s favorite expression was, "I hear and i forget, i write and i remember, i do and i understand". it`s just a neccessary process of learning. you have to take notes, you have to try things out, make mistakes and keep trying.

[Kent]

Also my math teacher`s favorite expression was, "I hear and i forget, i write and i remember, i do and i understand". it`s just a neccessary process of learning. you have to take notes, you have to try things out, make mistakes and keep trying.
An interesting expression, and I can see the virtue of it, especially in an instruction position where encouraging good study habits isshould be a virtue.

Granted, my vested interest in many subjects in general education classes was little more than passive, but the end result in remembering the material was just about the same without taking notes.

Now I'm really curious to take up a discussion about this with someone who studies such things, and see what they think. I know the first thing my old psychology professor would tell me would be something along the lines of "It's because you're a unique snowflake," in the most bitingly sarcastic manner possible, but I know the subject of studying (and the lack thereof) has come up in class discussions before.

Curse you, blue magic.

[McLaughlin]

I have a memory issue, to the point where I need to carry a notebook in my pocket with a list of things I need to do, or I will forget something important. It's really annoying, but I make every effort to retain what I'm taught.

An yes, I read the whole post. No, I couldn't remember the first line. ;_;

[Solstis]

I, too, forgot the first line by the time I finished reading.

My desk is surrounded by notes.

I will forget why I walked into rooms. <- Fudged the grammar here

My memory is an inefficient patchwork of fragments. I do tend, however, to remember conversations.

[stukasa]

I think it's a combination of things. Most students probably just aren't that interested in the subject matter so it's easy for them to forget it ("in one ear, out the other"). A lot of them are probably tired too, which doesn't help. On top of that, it's simply information overload. Look at college life and modern society and all the information students process on a daily basis. Not only do they have to remember the things they're taught in class but there's also TV, the Internet, friends, newspapers, books, video games... the list goes on and on! So much happens during the course of a single day that it's easy for them to forget some of the details they don't really care about (or don't fully understand).

When I was in college I took notes ALL the time. I was constantly writing as the professor was talking. But the trick is that I hardly looked at the notes after I took them. Forcing myself to write notes helped me process the information better so I could remember it later. And while most of my classmates would spend time reading the textbooks for days before a big test, all I had to do was read over my notes once or twice before the test and I'd remember everything I needed to know.

[Vanzazikon]

I usually don't take notes too. During a lecture, I can remember and understand what the professor is teaching; however, certain factors distract me from listening, such as boredom, procrastination or stress. Usually during final weeks, I tend to forget a lot what professors had taught during a session. I do remember trying to listen, but I was under a lot of stress during those times. During a lecture, I try to interpret what the professor is saying, then as I think about upcoming tests, I zone out. I start thinking about the other classes; "what kind of materials are going to covered on the final test, is my grade high enough that when I fail the test or get a "D", I'll still be able to pass, did I study enough?"

It's not only the finals week, when one of my grades in a class plummets, I start focusing on that one class, as I only think of that one class, I'd forget what was being taught in another. If the class is relaxing, you have a good grip of whats going on and you participate often in that class, you would remember a lot.

[Kylie]

My memory is weird. I remember the most random things, and I always remember stuff pretty well from lectures and lessons. In fact, I didn't take notes at all during high school because I would be fine as long as I was there and heard the discussion. See, I learn things best by talking them out and letting them sink in. Of course, some teachers were assholes and did notebook checks, so I had to write some things down. :roll:

I think everyone just learns best in different ways, different capacities, etc.

[Rust]

I'm a bit like Kylie on this.
I can remember a lot of random and unsignificant stuff, and some other are just going away for no reason.
I tend to remember way more easily anything that has been said, done or anything being the result of some kind of activity ; when I read stuff, I don't forget as soon as I read it, but I only recall of the overall idea, not of any specific sentence or such. Just as an example, I couldn't recall a single sentence of your post (so not the first either) without looking it up again, but I remember about the main points, including the "College Success" class, how people in your class are botting on WoW instead of working and how you don't blame your C++ teacher for having half of his class failing miserably at it.

On the other, I'm distracted a lot. Like thinking about having to do something, then something happens on the spot which makes me putting it aside for the very moment, then when I'm done with the former task, I completely forgot about what I wanted to do first (not in the sense that I can't recall it, but really that I don't think about it anymore at all). And several hours later, I'm all like "Damn crap, I forgot it again".

As for the lessons and classes specific domain, well, first I didn't have any choice but taking notes at high school ; you weren't considered a "good" student if you were slacking in class.
In university, though, it highly depends of the type of information and on the situation.

Anything that was specifically referred as something you had to know by heart, I was for sure noting it. Most of the classes I had were theoric stuff, classes being only 3 hours a week, with only one exam per class, at the end of the semester. I'd have forgotten such things as dates or any other numerical stuff pretty easily in about five months.
Now, if the theory was more about some kind of concepts you just had to get, especially if I was interested into it, no need to note anything about it, once the class was done, I had integrated it. Same goes with anything requiring activities ; manipulating lightings, video editing programs and such are easy to keep in mind once you got to practice it a bit.
I though had to take some classes I wasn't interested in, and thus had short attention span, so I was taking notes of anything I could grab from the class 'cause I knew it would have completely faded away as soon as I would have left the room.

In other notes, people who can't seem to recall a thing are bothering me to no end, especially when they don't even seem to make an effort towards that issue.
I have one of my tabletop RPG players who can't seem to retain a single simple thing about the game. Well, yeah, indeed I can recall most things better than he did since I'm the one who made up the plot and all the custom rules, and I can get he would recall every detail of the story when we're doing a session once every two months during a whole 24 hours, everyone's exhausted in the end and stuff ; but the guy has been playing the damn game for about 3 years now, and he's still at the point of asking which die to throw for a skill check every time he does such a check and asks me the same three f*ckin' questions every time he levels up.
That's getting irritating, it's like I take the effort of explaining something he asked me to explain for almost an hour, he nods to it like he got everything, which he actually did on the spot, but that's all. Your efforts are wasted within the next hour.