Master Classes?! More like Master Silly lol

[KrissyChewie]

ok everyone was hyping up the master classes. I was so excited to finally get masterforce. I spent like so much time trying to level my wartecher and omg was that annoying enough. But master force is just no was i expected. I die within 2 hits and i cannot heal buff gireasta anything. I just feel useless in evey party because i barely even hit alot. Im not giving up on materforce yet until i level it to 20 but with a psycho wand 5 grinds and a level 150 you would expect to be hiting more than 1000. Do you think master force or any master classes of that matter need some tuning up and are not very mastery? lolz

[beatrixkiddo]

You expect any class to be amazing at type level 1?

Well, aside from Fighmaster.

[KrissyChewie]

No but im already a 7 and have only 1690 health and nothing is going up much

[Bitzen]

When I saw that MF was gonna have the old FT hp from way back when, I decided I'd just enjoy FT with upgraded buffs. I don't think I'd ever go MF, the lack of hp and eva is waaaay too unappealing to me. Gunmaster looks like alot of fun though, if you put the work into it.

[beatrixkiddo]

Get some Pushans with attack techs and a Har/Quick. MF isn't so much about big numbers as it is about quick and decent numbers. Put that casting speed boost to work!

[S4CT4L1TY]

:D i love lv 50 bullets

[ashley50]

you need to rethink your way of playing if you die alot being a "master" class...

[Shou]

Masterforces can open boxes pretty well.

[-Zephyr-]

MF was only about blinding/slowing down party members with hueg techs. But that's gone now!

Nurses not forces, and such.

[_Vyser_]

With a 6 grinded P-wand, I can easily get 2-3k hits with ra-techs (LV 131, MF 12 at the time). All you need to do is keep your distance and spam techs. Not sure what eveyone is complaining about. I die the least of anyone in the groups I'm in. I can still dish out around 2k hits with techs like barta and never die.

It's best to put, for example, barta and rabarta on a mag, while keeping resta/giresta and reverser on your wand. Just use your mag to keep monsters away from you, and use rods when the attention is on someone else, or when you know the monster(s) wont hit you while casting.

[Shou]

There are too many factors in a party to judge if a class is good or not. Any class can seem good in a party. Try soloing Seed Express S2 or somthing like that.

[unicorn]

Surprisingly enough, there isn't that many Fortetechers that went Masterforce in the US servers. It seems that Fortetecher is more dead in the JP servers than it is here.

Masterforce is pretty lol. Sorry. Its my favorite type right now, because that how I play, but its lol. The speed increase only effects Basic, Ra, and Gi techs. Nos and Dam are more or less barely uneffected. Some techs I actually don't like using on MF at all (Megid....it wastes soo much PP its ridiculous).

FT is just much more defensive, versatile, and sometimes useful. I can see why players are sticking with FT.

Oh and Masterforce barely gains anything per class level.

[Sexy_Raine]

Gunmaster pretty much killed Masterforce for me. Once people realizes how Godly GM is, there'll be more people flocking to it. The only techer class I do now is Acrotecher. I have no regrets ditching MF for GM either., as it's fun class to play mainly because it's overpowered :P

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

I can't see a point in masterclasses either. i started a new character with the beginning of the carnival and was determined to get to Fighmaster, got to level 12 FM and thought i'd take a look at the class list, and then I noticed how abismal the stats were compared to Fortefighter, ATp was about 400 less, HP was nearly 700 less, EVP was abismal, I read on psupedia a male beast FM would have less that 100 EVP. Ok attacks are faster, but it doesn't make up for the terrible lack of stats, this was compared to a level 10 FF, i've gone back to foretefighter now as I prefer having more health and ATP, I agree they really shouldn't be considered master classes unless it just refers to being a master of photon arts, not with regards to strength or endurance

Tifa

[thunder-ray]

I happen to enjoy MF much more then what other people think about the class. Sure MF's die alot, our hp is shitty and our other stats arent as good as FT. But I love the class for that very reason for the drawbacks. Yes when i first started the class I died a hell of alot, but once I lvled up a bit I didnt die as much. As I said before I enjoy the class alot I most likly wont return to FT for a long time, but after im done capping my attack techs on my MF ima give AT a shot.

[ShuttleXpC]

Gunmaster and FighMaster are both awesome, but Masterforce...whee I can cast faster. Too bad the only good S-rank Rod is a Psycho Wand grinded a few times (Which cost 99mil even for a broken PoS, even then, only about 130+ over my collection of 10/10 Chao Staffs) I love both FM and GM, but MF really needs something else in terms of damage, when you change to either FM or GM, you are basically staying around the same ATP (FM) and ATP/ATA(GM) but when you switch to MF from FT --> MF you lose about 200+TP and some MST. Its weird that they would allow both FM and GM to attack faster and keep the same stats basically, but jip MF in that aspect.

[DesuJet]

ok everyone was hyping up the master classes. I was so excited to finally get masterforce. I spent like so much time trying to level my wartecher and omg was that annoying enough. But master force is just no was i expected. I die within 2 hits and i cannot heal buff gireasta anything. I just feel useless in evey party because i barely even hit alot. Im not giving up on materforce yet until i level it to 20 but with a psycho wand 5 grinds and a level 150 you would expect to be hiting more than 1000. Do you think master force or any master classes of that matter need some tuning up and are not very mastery? lolz

Master Classes have been out since December 19 and it took you almost two months to come up with this topic?

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Is that a big problem for you then?

[S4CT4L1TY]

use high end armors if you die alot also keep in mind force= keep your distance from creatures if your using har smart try using lumira spread to increase the distance on attacks like foei and megid to keep you further away

[PhdChristmas]

Everything, will be okay, if you just get out of the way.

The real problem is that 99% the player population just stand there even though the mob is facing and pacing towards you.

99% of gunners and forces stay stationary even though a diga ball is flying at their face 4 feet per second.

99% are oblivious to the fact that something bad is going to happen when Magas Maggahna's arms go missing from the top of their screen. And blame the AT for not healing them from a 1 hit ko.

The list is endless D:

[Akaimizu]

Masters are pretty good. Just don't expect game-balance shifting good where everybody will play Master Classes and forget the rest.

For me, one of the biggest benefits for the classes, is the ability to raise skill levels. Not that they don't have some decent (nearly all offense) type of play...but without them, a lot of weapons don't have a *speed up* assist to raise PAs in the game...

[Ethateral]

You die as a Masterforce? I don't see how you are. I love the class. I'm usually NOT the one to die in my normal party. I use Resta on my party, and by golly, I heal them a whole lot. Not fully, like I used to on FT/AT, but it's a nice chunk that they love me for. I've even Giresta'd them before, an that heals nicely.

You're hitting 1000s? Your technics must be a low level then. I'm hitting easily 2100+, (With 8^ Pwands) with level 41+ spells. Get some decent elemental armor as well. With my Pushans/Granahodoracs, I'm hitting around 1300 ~ 1500 or so.

Determining wiether a class is good, because of your class level, I'm sorry, but you need to level it to 20, and get your spells to 41+. I see more of my friends (My main party/event team) dying more so than I do in missions. :/

[Shinko]

To me it's all about your playing style. Just because you don't like a certain class don't mean someone else won't. Yes I think some stuff needs to be balance a bit but most people talk about changing a class completely to fit their style of playing and I disagree with that.

Ok like the Master classes. I don't think FM and GM need to be change a bit. No adding weapon to it or nothing... especailly GM. If you don't like that you can't use that many weapons then go bk to FF or FG. You can't have all the benfits of both classes.

Now with MF I do think they should have a little more magic attack power so they can have good damage with good speed however I don't think they should get more hp or anything else for that matter. If you have good attack power with speed then you need a BIG downfall or it become a too powerful class. However MF magic attack power is just normal and I can see how that could be a problem.

Oh and if you a low lvl master class don't expect much from it untill it lvled...

[Akaimizu]

Very true. I think if there's one thing they accomplished, the most, with Master Classes...it's the way they designed them mainly for your end game. It seems you don't really get the most out of them until you are of sufficient level, and PA levels. Most folks, getting to grips with the game, should definitely do well to go through an advanced class or two before attacking the Master Class.

[Ethateral]

Magic users are the squishy meat bags that, in turn to having low HP, make up for it with their high magic power. However, I don't think they need more TP added onto them. They have increased attack speed, so somewhere there has to be a little downside to their power. Honestly, you're going to outdamage FT anyway with the increased casting speed.

[Calsetes]

I agree with Shinko - if you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's a bad class. I'm not a fan of Fighmaster just because they're limited to swords, spears, axes, and double sabers. I'm not that big a fan of spears and axes, so I'll just stick to Fortefighter (where I can be the kind of character I want and still manage to be a pretty awesome powerhouse). My setup on Fortefighter is actually pretty good - I have twin sabers and swords with every PA for those at 40, and single-handed sabers with every PA on them quickly getting to 40, along with 2 handguns with almost every bullet for them (missing one of the frag ones). I might not attack as fast as a Fighmaster, or use the skills that about 65-70% of the fighters who play say I should use as if the world depended on it, but I'm still extremely strong and versatile - I have a fast-hitting multi-hit weapon (my twin sabers), a few powerhouse skills (Gravity Break and Spinning Strike which does about as much as Gravity Break), some Area-Effect attacks (Tornado Break), and a gun to both hit flying things, switches, and heal me when my HP's a bit low (mayalee hit is only level 12 or so and heals me for like 50-60 HP per hit on a mob, not to mention the "shotgun-like" hit range on the bullet).

If you like the job, stick with it then. If not, then use something that you do like, since that's the most important thing about this game. I would recommend that you get a few levels under your belt first though, just so you know what it feels like after it's powered up a bit (so many people complained about fortefighter when it first came out because FF1 stats were bad compared to Hunter 10 stats).

[Shinko]

Honestly, you're going to outdamage FT anyway with the increased casting speed.

Yea they may do outdamage them when it come to that but its so little that most of the time you can't tell the difference. (that's with a max PA spells) I say it's about the same instead of outdamaging....

[Csero]

I hear you Calsetes! I use nothing but nicely grinded DB Swords and a Falclaw on my Fortefighter, just to have that PSO novelty thing going on. I still do great damage even though I am not even LV 100 yet.

[Calsetes]

Yeah, and your ATP's only going up from that point onwards. If you don't have it yet, just wait until you get Spinning Strike up around level 35-ish - my main's 148 (just hit it last night) and with an 18% Crimson on the mobs in the event's Ice block, I'm pulling 3500, maybe even 4000 on a just attack with it. It's no majarra, but it doesn't send a bunch of mobs flying everywhere, just the one I dropkick to the face, and he usually dies mid-flight.

[Ethateral]

Yea they may do outdamage them when it come to that but its so little that most of the time you can't tell the difference. (that's with a max PA spells) I say it's about the same instead of outdamaging....

Well, they're still finishing missions faster than FTs. :/ Regaurdless, of the said "Little difference".

[mvffin]

Don't judge all master classes by only playing MF. Its easily the worst master class, and the least improved from its Forte version.

[Q.U.I.C.K.S.I.L.V.E.R]

ok everyone was hyping up the master classes. I was so excited to finally get masterforce. I spent like so much time trying to level my wartecher and omg was that annoying enough. But master force is just no was i expected. I die within 2 hits and i cannot heal buff gireasta anything. I just feel useless in evey party because i barely even hit alot. Im not giving up on materforce yet until i level it to 20 but with a psycho wand 5 grinds and a level 150 you would expect to be hiting more than 1000. Do you think master force or any master classes of that matter need some tuning up and are not very mastery? lolz
I think your master silly...I love my fighmaster.

[autumn]

FM and GM ended up excellent types and MF ended up kinda lacking. If I ever go back to a techer type it'll probably be MF due to the low support expectations but thats about all the good I found for it. I imagine most techers will end up for a preference in FT for some livability, particularly those who spend any time at all soloing.

[Inazuma]

yeah, the master types are so good, it makes the hybrids pretty useless, and also makes the game so easy its very silly indeed.

[Kylie]

I think the MP it takes to level a master class is silly because they aren't that much better than the others. It gives people something to do though, so I guess I can't really complain. Masterforce could use some tweakin' in my opinion, but I'm happy with the other two. It's great that they didn't make the other classes obsolete.

[stukasa]

On MF, Pushan > P-wand for everything except hold techs (Dam-, Nos-). MF is a speed nuker and you won't get the most out of it unless you take advantage of that speed. On fT I mainly used rods because of their power but MF is a different case. Most of my techs aren't even level 41 yet and I still see a big difference in how fast I can kill the enemies. The only problem with MF is its low HP, which isn't very fair considering it's STILL the least powerful Master class.

[Shinko]

Well, they're still finishing missions faster than FTs. :/ Regaurdless, of the said "Little difference".

Yea but not by that much and even still than depends but im not going to go over that because it'll be a back and forward thing. Anyways what im trying to say is that it should be a noticeable difference. You have all these downfalls so i believe that they should have the speed with more magic damage than what they have now with it. It would balance out the downfall of that class. That be good and it won't change the over all class style.

But this is just what I think....

[Sexy_Raine]

Masters are pretty good. Just don't expect game-balance shifting good where everybody will play Master Classes and forget the rest.

.

Lies, Gunmaster has pretty much replaced Fortegunner. And you'll never see them revert back now mainly because Fortegunner never got any improvements since AOI came out. They had the same S ranks since PSU V1, while every other class got more aside from FT got more. Fortegunner is pretty pointless right now.

Can't say the same for MF, as it's a useless class right now. Those who say it doesn't need improvements hasn't tried all the masters yet. I have all offense techs at 50, a Psycho 10/10 plus 4 other less grinded ones and still not convinced to use it over the other masters.

[Calsetes]

Fortegunner can use melee weapons though.


Makes doing those story missions a bit easier when it's needed, like that "Find survivors" mission. And..... uh......

..............

.....maybe if you blow through all your charges and have literally no way to get back to buy more, or are out of money. If that's the case though, then you probably have bigger problems to worry about. Plus some people like Fortegunner, maybe they want a rifle user who can use sabers...?

[InfiniDragon]

I can't say much about Masterforce, but I absolutely love Fighmaster. When they first announced the master classes, I was really worried it was gonna become a three class game again because the masters would be far and above the others. That is not the case, as master classes are really more of a "hybrid of a hybrid" class with the exception of Gunmaster (Gunmaster being even more specialized than Fortegunner). Fighmasters seem more like the opposite of an Acrofighter than an advanced Fortefighter. High speed like an AF, but DEF instead of EVA, two-handed weapons instead of single-handed. They are unique enough to warrant one person using a FF and the other using a FM, and I love that about the class. Not to mention it allows me to finally use swords the way I always wanted to - as general purpose main weapons, like I did in PSO (built in Heavenly / Battle FTW).

Only downside to the class is that all the more Spear/Majarra spammers (my dreaded enemy in this game) get to benefit from the speed increase too and be even more annoying trying to speed kill everything.

[Kumlekar]

ok everyone was hyping up the master classes. I was so excited to finally get masterforce. I spent like so much time trying to level my wartecher and omg was that annoying enough. But master force is just no was i expected. I die within 2 hits and i cannot heal buff gireasta anything. I just feel useless in evey party because i barely even hit alot. Im not giving up on materforce yet until i level it to 20 but with a psycho wand 5 grinds and a level 150 you would expect to be hiting more than 1000. Do you think master force or any master classes of that matter need some tuning up and are not very mastery? lolz

Yet another person didn't bother to research the classes before hand, they rock, but they have to be leveled, their PA's have to be leveled, and you have to know how to play the game....


Yea they may do outdamage them when it come to that but its so little that most of the time you can't tell the difference. (that's with a max PA spells) I say it's about the same instead of outdamaging....

Its 15%, which is fairly significant.

[DreXxiN]

I think to sum it up, you can basically say that to make a MASTER class useful, you have to be a MASTER at the game.

Dedicate a lot of time to it, know how to dodge, have high level PA's and high gear, otherwise of COURSE you're going to be worse than your forte counterpart and even at times, the hybrids.

I don't mean any offense, but I don't think SEGA wanted a bunch of noobs running to master classes and raping everything with no effort.

[Kumlekar]

I think to sum it up, you can basically say that to make a MASTER class useful, you have to be a MASTER at the game.

Dedicate a lot of time to it, know how to dodge, have high level PA's and high gear, otherwise of COURSE you're going to be worse than your forte counterpart and even at times, the hybrids.

I don't mean any offense, but I don't think SEGA wanted a bunch of noobs running to master classes and raping everything with no effort.

I just feel the need to amend that that doesn't apply to fighmasters, but for the other two I strongly agree. Fighmasters can get away with unleveled PA's because knockback is so availiable to them. Durega, jarbroga, tornado dance, tornado break 21+, sprial 11+ are a few that are easily accessible (I mention tornado break because its usually one of the first PA's new players get if they're playing hunters). Majarra at 11+ has ridiculou damage output, and takes about 10 minutes to get there. They have enough health to survive most stuff even at low levels. All they really need for weapons is high PP, and even that isn't that important because they can charge it with normal attacks unlike the other two classes.

Gunners are entirely PA based, and techers need Tech levels, and high % armor, along with crazy dodging skills.

[Shou]

You dont have to lvl MF to 20 like all the other classes to see that the class sucks. Your stats hardly change at all from lvl 1-20. You do need to get your techs to 41 tho. After that, almost every tech only gains 1% att per PA lvl so you can pretty much see the damage you will be doing when you are capps. This class is dead and needs to be rebalanced.

Yes it DOES do more damage than the other techer classes but all techer classes SUCK offensivly anyways so it doesnt matter but at least the other techer classes can buff and heal but even THAT isnt enough to make up for how bad they slow down the party.

Its pretty rediculous that the weakest class in the game also does the least amount of damage. Also now with the tech visual nerf its not even fun to play anymore because nobody can see your spells...

Just wait and hope that the JP "big update" will make techers usefull again.

*goes back to Gunmaster pew! pew!*

[Akaimizu]

Lies, Gunmaster has pretty much replaced Fortegunner. And you'll never see them revert back now mainly because Fortegunner never got any improvements since AOI came out. They had the same S ranks since PSU V1, while every other class got more aside from FT got more. Fortegunner is pretty pointless right now.

Can't say the same for MF, as it's a useless class right now. Those who say it doesn't need improvements hasn't tried all the masters yet. I have all offense techs at 50, a Psycho 10/10 plus 4 other less grinded ones and still not convinced to use it over the other masters.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Gunmaster is pretty cool, but there's a lot of folks who still like the weapon choice of Fortegunner. People do play for more than just end-game shave-seconds-from time regardless of weapon choice. I can see people playing a Gunmaster missing things like Grenades or Crossbows. And you know what's funny? The stuff I usually miss among the most, is the GMs lack of disabling traps. Sure they get the DOT traps, but nothing quick you can lay down and disable foes so you can go in for the kill. Now one can say, "but if you have a party", but that's not the point. It's a very useful extra bit of role of engagement, that you can use as a Fortegunner or even a Guntecher. It adds to the variety of combat options. Stuff like that is also why you have hybrid lovers. I know you might not believe those kind of people exist, but I hear people missing some feature they used to have quite a bit even if they dig playing the new class......

----------pop********** (disappears from existence)

[_Vyser_]

Lol, Akaimizu. No need to disappear, I think you made a good point. This is why I don't play FM (minus your trap/gun examples). Of my two melee characters, I was considering making my FF into a FM, but I would miss knuckles too much :/

Although, of the three masters, I will not switch from MF. Sure I loose tech support not being any other techer, but that's what my AT alt is for. MF is a fun and challenging class too, unlike FF most of the time.

[XxAntMan215xX]

best master class is GM FM sukks because everyone spams jabroga and t dance and Mf is just blah you can barely heal yourself only think i like is megid 41+ GM now thats where the fun is at lol and foretgunners arnt useless when your using nades boma maga and duranga can become your best friends in solo runs.....

[_Vyser_]

Lol, yeah. I can't fully heal anyone but myself as MF XD I know the class isn't meant to be support, but might as well use those healing techs! I didn't get to play GM too much, but I would have to agree it is easily the best of the master classes. I just need to level my bullets to usable levels :/

[Africa]

The best master class is just whichever isn't masterforce.That being said mf isn't good till 15 if you have decent gear and lvled techs.I haven't noticed any real differences in times on most missions but i haven't been back to ft in a while.The downfall of mf is that it relegates ppl to being background chars, and the lack of evp is very bad. Of all the master classes it takes the most to be mediocre at it and is only worthwhile if you know how to play it.

[Akio-Kasai]

Meh, my friend(Who has posted in this topic) is a MF. He and I tend to duo quite a bit, and even in a party of two he can easily take out enemies and avoid damage at the same time. I don't think I've ever seen him die O_o Though he may have a few times, but overall he tends to take down his enemies quickly and effectively, even without his support techs.

[_Vyser_]

Hate to feel like I'm living in this topic, but this some good stuff. Anywho, you really shouldn't play any of the master classes unless you know what you're doing, and have good equipment/PAs. MF seems to be very heavy on this. Unless you have your techs in the 30's I don't think it's very wise to play this class; you'll die a lot, and wont do much damage. I really wish they didn't cut the evasion of MF in half compared to FT, but it's still manageable (still annoying though).

I actually have noticed some time changes. Right before we got the master classes, I was doing Egg runs with my friend as a FT 20. When we got the master classes, we were actually going faster when I was just MF 1. Basically, don't play MF until you've played FT long enough to get your techs leveled. At least GM is good right off the bat (can't say for sure on FM, so I can't give a valid opinion on it until I've tried it out for awhile).

[Akio-Kasai]

With FighMaster, it's the same as MF. You need the equipment to be powerful and fast, you need the armor to defend yourself since you have a LOT less evasion. Sure it's good for Jabroga(lol) but that means more Trimates will be used.

People seem so against FM because of the constant TD and Jabroga spamming. All in all, it's just like MF, you need to know how to play the class, and when to use those techniques. Jabroga is strong, but spamming it is just foolish. There are other techniques that could take out things faster then Jabroga spamming can. Even Spiral Dance if you know what you're doing.

Equipment means jack by the way, if you don't know what you're doing.

Also as a side note; Someone mentioned how their 10/10 Psycho Wand and capped techs didn't seem like enough. Sometimes power isn't always better, MAG's and Wands are faster then Rods, using the right techs on them could kill things faster then the PWand depending on circumstances.

Also note that it's easier to move right after casting with a Wand/MAG as their cooldown is smaller.

[_Vyser_]

Interesting comparison. I'll keep that in mind if I ever try FM out. Seems like GM is the only one that didn't get screwed in stats compared to their forte versions.

[Shinko]

Its 15%, which is fairly significant.

You think it would be but it's not really. Since FF TP is higher and since newman's don't get the 3% bounes with MF so FT do more damage but if we add MF speed into it its as I said bascally the same.

[BahnKnakyu]

MF is weak.

Gunmaster and Fighmaster are awesome. Try those classes. Gunmaster kicks ass right off the bat.

[Rambo!]

Somone correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was talked to death about a month ago to here is how it ended last time

Masterforce - Casts at high speed and is completely offensive very fragile and dies fast because of it. No buffs good for parties not as good for soloing.

MasterGunner - Pretty much all around better than fortegunner unless you really like grenades.

Fighmaster - the amazing broken high speed jabroga king , use this if you only care about dishing out dps faster than any other class.

In all honesty though does it really matter if this game had pvp I would say maybe but all we are doing is mauling pathetically weak creatures that fall in 2-8 shots anyway. Now if this game was as hard as say hive in version 1 then you would have more room to complain.

Also so when it comes up it was also determined that casts make the best fighmaster not beasts unless you are jose.

[XxAntMan215xX]

anybody can make the best fighmaster when they spam jabroga with a LKK master classed really arnt for pros whoeevr said that just wanted to sound good.

[Akio-Kasai]

anybody can make the best fighmaster when they spam jabroga with a LKK master classed really arnt for pros whoeevr said that just wanted to sound good.

... -Facepalm-

I dare you to get an Axe, spam Jabroga through a mission and go up against a Fighmaster who knows what they're doing, let's see how good you do. You probably couldn't even out time a Fortefighter by spamming Jabroga.

Now you just sound like a fool. Master classes are for people who know what they are doing when they play. You cannot just spam Jabroga and be good, it doesn't work that way. If you honestly believe that, then you obviously have never seen how an actual Fighmaster plays.

[Zabrio]

honestly i just stuck with fighgunner :P i love the gun/sword combo too much

[AlphaDragoon]

LOL at people talking about Fighmaster being broken.

Now Gunmaster is some broken business.

[majan]

first and foremost, I have no idea how the hell a level 150 female newman masterforce is doing 1000 with a 5/5 psycho wand with any technic in this game. I switched to mf at around level 132 if i remember right, and I was doing roughly 300 damage less overall than I was doing as a ft. with the pwand, this was still much more than 1000. your character may have influenza.


anybody can make the best fighmaster when they spam jabroga with a LKK master classed really arnt for pros whoeevr said that just wanted to sound good.

... -Facepalm-

I dare you to get an Axe, spam Jabroga through a mission and go up against a Fighmaster who knows what they're doing, let's see how good you do. You probably couldn't even out time a Fortefighter by spamming Jabroga.

Now you just sound like a fool. Master classes are for people who know what they are doing when they play. You cannot just spam Jabroga and be good, it doesn't work that way. If you honestly believe that, then you obviously have never seen how an actual Fighmaster plays.

yes.


now I'll be the first person to go and throw it out there for the sake of discussion that okay,yeah,masterforces could probably do well with a little more HP,just to make it possible to survive more than 2-3 hits of the more potent monsters in the game,and that they probably could use level 20 buffs,just because it defeats the purpose of not having it because people can carry around megistarides(which they do) to get the level 2 buffs anyway....

but...

"master classes" is not synonymous with "easy classes." they are *advanced* classes, the *top* tier of classes, designed for veterans of the game looking to continue rewarding and challenging gameplay.nobody, and I mean nobody, came out and said CONGRATULATIONS UPON ATTAINING MASTER CLASS STATUS EVERY KNEE OF EVERY MONSTER IN THE GAME SHALL BEND TO YOUR WILL. the way things actually turned out were a rude awakening for some, an anticipated and worthwhile challenge for others.
now, do you notice something funny about the master classes?they are horribly unbalanced! fighmasters dont even have a handgun to hit those hard to reach spots, and masterforces don't have a single thing to use besides casting weapons. the humanity! but this,indeed,is how it should be, for 2 main reasons.
1- because it promotes team play, plain and simple.
2- read carefully: master force. does this sound like a class that will be using much of anything besides what a force specializes in? well,no. granted, the overemphasis on nuking and not a more well-rounded use of technics (like at least level 20 buffs for instance,simply because it defeats the purpose to have level 10 and just carry around a butt load of megistarides...) was a little bit of a shock,but that's the choice they wanted us to make. this isn't create-your-own-rpg-character-for-your-own-satisfaction-game. besides, think, if masterforces could carry the extreme nuking power role in the party (which they do, anyone who's really experimented and has experience using different technics in different situations will know this) along with a formidable support capability, where would the acrotechers fall into place? they are sparse enough.
for some reason when the first word of master classes came out,everybody was psyched because they thought that fighmasters would be able to use every S-rank melee weapon and a-rank wands and twin handguns too with level 20 techinics and 30 bullets and ..well...you get the point.

so don't knock the master classes for A-being too hard, or B-being unbalanced and more onerous to play. master classes does not imply the versatility some of us enjoyed while using the expert and hybrid classes. yeah,it sucks that fighmasters dont even get not even a c-rank pistol,and yeah its annoying that masterforces' buffs and heals dont even go past 10, but that's where the beauty of choice comes in. nobody is hanging a bull's testicle over your head saying go master class or go to hell. do it,knowing that for the first time in this game you are actually consciously signing yourself up for something that involves thoughtful and strategic play, and a little bit of a challenge...or don't do it if you are too scared or are enjoying the easy mode this game has been stuck in for far too long.

EDIT--ok,that was a little harsh on the people who genuinely enjoy a little versatility in playing FT over MF. red mage status with a bow is some good stuff. I seek not to bash people who have fun playing the class they play. I'm just trying to talk some sense into the people who have been brainwashed by how easy this game has been and how the addition of master classes has changed the way we play.

and for fucks sake, quit whining about it like we will change it. the gm's don't listen to a word that we say,especially in the USA,and especially on boards that are not remotely connected to the official forums. we can discuss all we want...thats the beauty of a community. but let's not make fools of ourselves either.

[_Vyser_]

Somone correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was talked to death about a month ago to here is how it ended last time

Masterforce - Casts at high speed and is completely offensive very fragile and dies fast because of it. No buffs good for parties not as good for soloing.

MasterGunner - Pretty much all around better than fortegunner unless you really like grenades.

Fighmaster - the amazing broken high speed jabroga king , use this if you only care about dishing out dps faster than any other class.

In all honesty though does it really matter if this game had pvp I would say maybe but all we are doing is mauling pathetically weak creatures that fall in 2-8 shots anyway. Now if this game was as hard as say hive in version 1 then you would have more room to complain.

Also so when it comes up it was also determined that casts make the best fighmaster not beasts unless you are jose.

^This. There really isn't much more to talk about. It's starting to look like we're basically repeating the same things now.

Edit: Thank you majan! You said it perfectly. I'm glad there are at least some people that understand this.

[Akio-Kasai]

first and foremost, I have no idea how the hell a level 150 female newman masterforce is doing 1000 with a 5/5 psycho wand with any technic in this game. I switched to mf at around level 132 if i remember right, and I was doing roughly 300 damage less overall than I was doing as a ft. with the pwand, this was still much more than 1000. your character may have influenza.

My friend could probably show you power, he does about as much damage as my GM does with his techs. all his techs are leveled and almost all passed 41. Which is what you NEED to be a good MF.

Aside from that, yes, people though Master Classes would be extremely broken, all powerful classes, but they're not.

Not everyone can play a Master Class because of the limited weaponry, especially when it comes to FM.

[majan]

My friend could probably show you power, he does about as much damage as my GM does with his techs. all his techs are leveled and almost all passed 41. Which is what you NEED to be a good MF.

Aside from that, yes, people though Master Classes would be extremely broken, all powerful classes, but they're not.

Not everyone can play a Master Class because of the limited weaponry, especially when it comes to FM.

well that statement about the damage and stuff was actually targeted at the OP...probably should have pointed that out.

anyway,I know there's plenty of horsepower in MF's and using a wide variety of techs,thats part of the point I was trying to make. it is refreshing to see people using more than diga foie ramegid nosdiga and dambarta.

[XxAntMan215xX]

Ive seen fighmaster be played without spamming jabroga but why not stay FF or FG and use g break or anything else again Master classes is just there so u can brag about all your PAs past 40

[Akio-Kasai]

Ive seen fighmaster be played without spamming jabroga but why not stay FF or FG and use g break or anything else again Master classes is just there so u can brag about all your PAs past 40

I like the ability to use Double Sabers AND Axes, Spiral Dance is one of my favorite techniques, and both FiG and FF are capped as my main. FM also has more speed, which I like more then the slow speed of FF.

There's NO point in bragging about 50 PA's because they are EASY to get. Again -Facepalm-

[Volcompat321]

I think the MP it takes to level a master class is silly because they aren't that much better than the others. It gives people something to do though, so I guess I can't really complain. Masterforce could use some tweakin' in my opinion, but I'm happy with the other two. It's great that they didn't make the other classes obsolete.not mush better? have you lvld any matser class to 20? the speed and %(on gun elements) alone make up for the"lack" of stats. IMO GM is the best masterclass, because it doesnt really miss much from the FG. the speed of shotguns, and rifles, and the % of lvl 50 bullets make up for any loss of the master stats. :D

[Atomic646]

ON my MG I have less health and less Atp, and friends tell they have the same on FM so I'd think it's same as a MF. Really only benefit is speed :/

[_Vyser_]

ON my MG I have less health and less Atp, and friends tell they have the same on FM so I'd think it's same as a MF. Really only benefit is speed, s-ranked mags, 3rd target on nosmegid, SE increase on: barta, rabarta, gibarta, zonde, razonde, gizonde, megid, nosdiga :/

Fix'd

[stukasa]

ON my MG I have less health and less Atp, and friends tell they have the same on FM so I'd think it's same as a MF. Really only benefit is speed :/
The speed boost is totally worth it though. Plus, the stuff Vyser said. :p

[hunterseifer]

Okay, you wanna know the diference between forte and master, anyone can play forte classes!

The reason masterclasses are hard is because its for ppl who been around the game for awhile, masterclasses need specific type of units and you pa's need to be lvl'd(personally 31+ at least) for you to be any good at them. People complain about the pp consumption or the lack of evp or atp, well let me give you some thoughts on that:

PP consumption: cati save will do it, and stop spamming with the same wep over and over, I never use a charge while in a party, and if solo, of course I do.

stats: get a decent element armor, if you cant buy serafi-senba, orp-senba covers the basic's,head,body,arm. and for evp, when I played as FF i hated having evp, it stops me from using attacks, I'm glad they destroyed its in FM. As far as FM goes, with a capped class and lvl 50 pa's, it comes close to FF in dmg,(dps terms FM is better) and some pa's lvl higher atp% than others, like grav break which means FM does more dmg than FF does in a combo. This stuff applies to other two masterclasses as well, GM shoty's capped are equivalent to majarra, may sound crazy but Ive seen video's on this. MF, I havent experienced much in this since I'm working on mine, but if anyone knows grimace, he would'nt be that class if it wasnt worth it.

In conclusion, these classes are well worth it, so yeah, they lack variety but not much of mishes(for example) need a handgun on a FM, change back if you need it that bad, god forbid ask someone to help you shoot down Dimmagolus, but then again he drops down anyway >.>;

[_Vyser_]

Thank you hunterseifer. I'm glad you understand the concept of these classes.

[thunder-ray]

Okay, you wanna know the diference between forte and master, anyone can play forte classes!

The reason masterclasses are hard is because its for ppl who been around the game for awhile, masterclasses need specific type of units and you pa's need to be lvl'd(personally 31+ at least) for you to be any good at them. People complain about the pp consumption or the lack of evp or atp, well let me give you some thoughts on that:

PP consumption: cati save will do it, and stop spamming with the same wep over and over, I never use a charge while in a party, and if solo, of course I do.

stats: get a decent element armor, if you cant buy serafi-senba, orp-senba covers the basic's,head,body,arm. and for evp, when I played as FF i hated having evp, it stops me from using attacks, I'm glad they nerfed it. As far as FM goes, with a capped class and lvl 50 pa's, it comes close to FF in dmg,(dps terms FM is better) and some pa's lvl higher atp% than others, like grav break which means FM does more dmg than FF does in a combo. This stuff applies to other two masterclasses as well, GM shoty's capped are equivalent to majarra, may sound crazy but Ive seen video's on this. MF, I havent experienced much in this since I'm working on mine, but if anyone knows grimace, he would'nt be that class if it wasnt worth it.

In conclusion, these classes are well worth it, so yeah, they lack variety but not much of mishes(for example) need a handgun on a FM, change back if you need it that bad, god forbid ask someone to help you shoot down Dimmagolus, but the again he drops down anyway >.>;I agree to this.

[Shou]

You guys need to stop saying MF is good if you "play it well" because that is ignotrant. It's completely not true. MF cannot hold a candle up to the power of a GM or FM. If you think otherwise you just dont understand somthing and its messing up your logic.

BTW Grimace hasn't really played his masterforce ever since the tech nerf just like 90% of all the other techers in the game.

[Arada]

It's true that MasterForce isn't that great in damage compared to melee classes but there's something else a lot of people have forgotten: is this fun ?

If the answer is yes, then go ahead and play the class.
If the answer is no, then change, there are quite a number of alternatives.

The game is easy enough to not bother about damage optimization all the time.

[MaRayearth]

ok everyone was hyping up the master classes. I was so excited to finally get masterforce. I spent like so much time trying to level my wartecher and omg was that annoying enough. But master force is just no was i expected. I die within 2 hits and i cannot heal buff gireasta anything. I just feel useless in evey party because i barely even hit alot. Im not giving up on materforce yet until i level it to 20 but with a psycho wand 5 grinds and a level 150 you would expect to be hiting more than 1000. Do you think master force or any master classes of that matter need some tuning up and are not very mastery? lolz

level your techs

[Darius_Drake]

hunterseifer, I couldn't agree with you more. About the master force I almost don't understand some people. Before this class came out some people complained about being a heal bot and really didn't want to support the party even though they had a support job. They wanted to be offensive and use attack techs without bothering with support techs. Masterforce would seem to be the perfect job for these type of people. I do wish they would have given the class a HP boost because that is needed. My poor female newman can get crushed with the quickness if I slip up once. As for the so called nerf, I don't understand. If the distance of the spell is the same, the power of the spell is the same, the status effects of the spell is the same, the number of enemies it hits is the same how the heck can you call it a nerf? What they did to the first slicer pa was a nerf. What they did to Dus Daggas was a nerf. Changing what the spell looks like to other members of the party while keeping the looks the same for the user is a purely aesthetic change. An aesthetic change does not equal a nerf. It kills the ability to show off spells, but has no effect on the effectiveness of the spell.

[Crawdad]

The problem is is people completely mis the point of Master Classes, they're specialty Classes and nothing else. hunterseifer pretty much nailed it on the head. I like Low EVp because I don't want my attacks stopped halfway through them. People also don't or didn't prepare enough for them when they did come out. I spent about 20 mill buying Svaltus swords and Carriguine Rucars for the master classes and go t myself a Cati/skill pp save so I wouldn't burn through PP as much or so that i COULD burn through it. AND i use Just attacks to regain lost pp i mean hmmm, 7 pp back per enemy i hit after hitting 3-5 enemies? that means I gain 21-35 pp in ONE SWING! and 12 per enemy on thrid swing per enemy...hmmm!!!!

Not to metnion I have a FM at lvl 20 with lvl 50 PAs at lvl 150 and I hit almost the same as my FF 20 aswell as doing MORE damage than a Fighgunner.

This is just typical attitude of todays society now anyway. Everyone wants to see the rewards here and Now, they want things to be easy just because somethings in life are they want it all. and no one wants to work towards a great class. just typical. It's completely different if you know what a master class is for, and being able to avoid damage without relying on ur EVP is a skill worth learned. but people are dumping master classes because of their ignorance is just that, ignorant.

EDIT: Oh and if you actually level up your master class the stats are just fine and very comparable to the forte styles but they just take longer to get there. but remember that the Forteclasses are MEANT to be the higest in stats, and the master classes are completely different they add speed and have comparable power but limited in weapons, they are a style, of play not the be all end all. think people.

[Sexy_Raine]

The speed boost is totally worth it though. Plus, the stuff Vyser said. :p

Please stop defending MF. The speed boost means nothing as the other 2 masters get it too. Damtechs, Nostechs, Megiverse, and regrants really don't benefit from it. The speed boost in not worth the lost of defense stats and decent support techs.

Techs from level 40-50 are not that impressive. Lasers from 40-50 are a huge difference, 50% element, 30% added damage modifier, and faster shooting.

Also the tech visual nerf does not help either. If I want people to see lv30 techs, then I'll play AT thank you very much.


You guys need to stop saying MF is good if you "play it well" because that is ignotrant. It's completely not true. MF cannot hold a candle up to the power of a GM or FM. If you think otherwise you just dont understand somthing and its messing up your logic.

BTW Grimace hasn't really played his masterforce ever since the tech nerf just like 90% of all the other techers in the game.

I agree with Shou, I've been a techer main for 2 years!!! Now, I've just given up on it. Honestly, I enjoyed playing the lesser used types for the challenge, but now that's not the case since MF blows. Gumaster takes a bit of skill to use, it rewards the effort put into it, and it's fun to play. I've made it my new main class and don't regret it whatsoever.

[Akio-Kasai]

You still don't get it, everyone keeps talking about how frail MF is. have any of you worn a 46% Armor as a 20 MF? The reason Fortes are easier to play is because of the versatility with armor and weapons, it's easier to make a 46% A rank armor then an S rank. If you are not prepared to play a Master Class, then don't play it.

Also WHAT are you talking about? MasterForce GAINS defense, or have you not seen the stats? the DEF modifier of a Level 20 FT is 80%, and level 20 MF is 100%. So this "Lack of defense" argument just makes you sound like an ignorant fool.

[Sexy_Raine]

LOL, DEF is wortlhless, masterforce HP horrible, lv1 MF does not gain much going to MF20. 50% EVP from FT.

Have you even played MF? If not then GTFO nub. Don't try to telll me I'm frggin' wrong!!!

[Akio-Kasai]

Defense and HP mean nothing if you have the equipment, let me put out the words of my friend who has played a techer all his PSU career.

"DEF is bull, because DEF doesn't matter as long as you don't die. And good players don't die."

You obviously don't have the equipment to defend yourself, you completely ignored the part I posted about armor. -_- You NEED good equipment, if you don't have it then don't play the class. Just because YOU can't play it, doesn't make it a bad class.

[Calsetes]

I......... will make judgments on Masterforces when I eventually get around to them, probably after all my other jobs are at 20 with the exception of the other 2 master classes. I need some practice at not being a guy who stands there and gets hit all day long before I attempt anything force-related.


All I know is there's a lot of people telling others how to play in this and that other people don't know how to play the game. That makes me a sad swordsman.

[stukasa]

Please stop defending MF. The speed boost means nothing as the other 2 masters get it too. Damtechs, Nostechs, Megiverse, and regrants really don't benefit from it. The speed boost in not worth the lost of defense stats and decent support techs.

Techs from level 40-50 are not that impressive. Lasers from 40-50 are a huge difference, 50% element, 30% added damage modifier, and faster shooting.

Also the tech visual nerf does not help either. If I want people to see lv30 techs, then I'll play AT thank you very much.
I understand what you're saying but you missed the point of what I said. I wasn't comparing MF to the other two Master classes, I was comparing it to fT. This thread isn't about which master class is the best, it's about whether the master classes are better than the non-master classes.

Is MF stronger than fT? Yes, I think it is. The speed boost makes a difference compared to fT, the only downside is the low HP. Even then I rarely die except against the really dangerous enemies, so to me it's worth it.

[Sexy_Raine]

Having 50% armors still don't save it from being overall decent class as you'll usually fighting enemies they can do different elemental damage to you. Not to mention every class access to good elemental % armors. The higher HP makes it less of a hassle to spend so much on armor.

Oh I can play MF, but the real question is, why play it?

[Magician]

Sexy, Akio, easy on the personal attacks.

The bottom line is that MF isn't that great of an upgrade from FT when compared to a FM or GM. MF is an AT with sexy 41+ offensive techs and rod access. Give AT rods and MF is no longer relevant. Give MF 31+ support techs and FT is no longer relevant.

The answer? Maybe give MF 21+ support techs?

In then end, I could give a rip. I'm too busy leveling bullets on my GM.

[Akio-Kasai]

Oh I can play MF, but the real question is, why play it?

Because it's fun? People enjoy playing it, they like the speed. You're hating on a class because you don't like it, not because of fact.


Sexy, Akio, easy on the personal attacks.

The bottom line is that MF isn't that great of an upgrade from FT when compared to a FM or GM. MF is an AT with sexy 41+ offensive techs and rod access. Give AT rods and MF is no longer relevant. Give MF 31+ support techs and FT is no longer relevant.

The answer? Maybe give MF 21+ support techs?

I don't think they need 21+ Support honestly, but that's my personal opinion. My friend is fully capable of healing himself fully with his MF, it's not meant to be a support class, that's what AT is for. :/

MF is meant to be the Damaging Force class, and when compared to other force classes, it does it's job quite well.

[Inazuma]

akio, when someone says MF has terrible defense compared to FT, they arent talking about the "defense" stat but overall survivability. in other words, MF dies more than FT.

its true that MF is better than FT, by a decent amount imo. but so what? they are pure shit compared to FM/GM so does it really matter? like sexy raine, i played MF main for years and recently quit b/c i couldnt stand being useless in parties anymore.

btw, i barely ever died as MF so the poor defense really wasnt that big of deal to me. and being able to heal yourself from being frozen or stunned was really nice. its the downright pathetic offense that upsets me.

[Akio-Kasai]

akio, when someone says MF has terrible defense compared to FT, they arent talking about the "defense" stat but overall survivability. in other words, MF dies more than FT.

its true that MF is better than FT, by a decent amount imo. but so what? they are pure shit compared to FM/GM so does it really matter? like sexy raine, i played MF main for years and recently quit b/c i couldnt stand being useless in parties anymore.

btw, i barely ever died as MF so the poor defense really wasnt that big of deal to me. and being able to heal yourself from being frozen or stunned was really nice. its the downright pathetic offense that upsets me.

MF should not be compared to FM/GM, nor should GM be compared to FM and vice versa. They all have different play styles.

Even in PSO, the Magic class was said to be for "Advanced" users, meaning it was more difficult to play.

In terms of being the best class, no, MF is not the best class, but please. Please. Do not sit here and tell me that MF fails, because it doesn't, I've seen it used, and I've fought along side one many times, and our duo speed is only slightly less then when my friend is AF.

If you don't like MF don't try and say it sucks, or it fails. Master Forces aren't meant to replace FT, they're not meant for everyone. The people that play it and play it well have fun with it.

[xRedd206x]

I just never understood Why we couldn't compare the master class's to the hybrids and only to Fortes. I mean imo you can't compare these class's period due to something like Forte Fighter have guns while master fighter don't. Or Master Fighter has a double saber so you can compare it to figunner.

[Darius_Drake]

The bottom line is that the master classes are different classes. They were not supposed to be better or worse than the forte-classes or hybrid classes. They were supposed to be different. I will admit that my techer is no longer a masterforce (she has returned back to her acrotecher job). I didn't switch jobs because masterforce sucks though. I did feel a HP boost was in order, but I actually like to support the party so the playstyle just didn't suit me. I continuously tried to get the urge of supporting the party out of my system, but decided not to fight it anymore. Masterforce with a HP boost would be perfect for those that don't want support anybody and instead just use their attack techs. For all those that are complaining about power and uber numbers, techers never were tops on the list damage wise. Forces were never out damaging hunters and rangers. Fortetechers were never out damaging fortefighters or fortegunners. Why all of a sudden should Masterforces out damage or put up equal damage as fighmasters and gunmasters? I don't get it. My newman will remain a techer.

[Sexy_Raine]

I guess everyone's definition of fun varies which is okay. I tend to enjoy something to takes effort to use, and dominate everything. Gunmaster satisfies me on both of these.

Also no one likes getting the short end of the stick. And believe me, MF is the worst vs it's forte counterpart. I don't find t "fun" being outdone by other types, so I ended up ditching it for good. Your average Jabroga/Majarra spammer has a better chance of being more effective than my 3000 hours of being a offense tech user.And that killed the "fun" for me, as I don't enjoy playing the worst thing. Bandiwagoning to GM is my way of getting even with this flawed system, but I play it for fun too, remember that.

[Akio-Kasai]

Honestly Raine I don't think you're giving MF enough credit :/ If you put a MF up against a FT in a speed run, MF would win I'm sure of it.

MF isn't the worst, you can think it's the worst and that's okay, you have your opinion. But saying "It's the worst" is not an opinion.

[Calsetes]

I'll take a quote from the Simpsons for this one (modified for my use, of course):

"Masterforce for some, tiny American flags for others!"

[cwTopCat]

MF should not be compared to FM/GM, nor should GM be compared to FM and vice versa. They all have different play styles.

Even in PSO, the Magic class was said to be for "Advanced" users, meaning it was more difficult to play.

In terms of being the best class, no, MF is not the best class, but please. Please. Do not sit here and tell me that MF fails, because it doesn't, I've seen it used, and I've fought along side one many times, and our duo speed is only slightly less then when my friend is AF.

If you don't like MF don't try and say it sucks, or it fails. Master Forces aren't meant to replace FT, they're not meant for everyone. The people that play it and play it well have fun with it.

I totaly agree with this guy. I know MF is not the "BEST" class and they do need some improvements. But that doesn't stop some people from enjoying the class. Not everyone just cares about completing misson times the fastest or doing the most damage. I like to use spells/techs and cast them fast, thats why MF is my main. The other Master types seem boring to me, especially GM. MF is more of a challenge to use, which is sorta fun sometimes. Unlike a GM that just stands back and shoot, shoot, shoot , with hardly any risk of being in danger and except for some S rank gun shot graphics, they hardly have any kind of special effects from attacking.

[Calsetes]

I like my Gunmaster, but that may be because I try to make my gunner somewhat interesting to see in action - got a Blackbull, a Rattlesnake, a Shigga Desta, Shigga Baret, Meteor Cannon, and a Ryusaikanoh. They may not be the strongest, but I try to mix up my weapons a bit so it's not "Oh, there's the Gunmaster standing in a corner firing at anything that moves again." Sometimes there's a big dragon screech, sometimes it's the random bowling balls of doom, sometimes it's me getting up close and personal to the big guys that can kill me on one hit.

In my opinion, the best class is what you like as the best class, and no matter what anyone else says, it's what you think that determines everything. On that note, everyone knows how amazingly awesome Hunter is, and everything should be compared to it as "this class sucks because hunter can do it better".

[kevington]

I've used FT forever and really didn't care for MF on paper-- the stats looked terrible and the support cap was a deal breaker. But then I started toying around with MF during the Carnival because of easy tech leveling and MPs. About ten class levels in, I have to say I'm really enjoying MF. I use a Har / Quick and with that some techs can be pumped out so fast, the enemies can't do much. In other situations, I use a Lumira / Spread and pick off enemies from a distance.

I may go back to FT depending on the situation, but for a long time FTer who was expecting the worst, I'm having a lot of fun with MF.

And really, I'll never understand the need some people have to declare their opinions as fact. It just seems pathological.

[ErtaiClou]

Yeah MF has yet to tempt me out of AT. I switch from FM back to FF on my beast when it comes to bonus mission. And as for GM on my cast no real gripes there.

[Shou]

In then end, I could give a rip. I'm too busy leveling bullets on my GM.

I think this is what we are all doing right now and how us used-to-be techers look at the techer classes lol

[Inazuma]

MF should not be compared to FM/GM, nor should GM be compared to FM and vice versa. They all have different play styles.

Even in PSO, the Magic class was said to be for "Advanced" users, meaning it was more difficult to play.

In terms of being the best class, no, MF is not the best class, but please. Please. Do not sit here and tell me that MF fails, because it doesn't, I've seen it used, and I've fought along side one many times, and our duo speed is only slightly less then when my friend is AF.

If you don't like MF don't try and say it sucks, or it fails. Master Forces aren't meant to replace FT, they're not meant for everyone. The people that play it and play it well have fun with it.

why cant i compare the types? they all kill monsters, and some do it better than others. if one type is way the hell better than another, i cant just ignore that.

when i was playing as MF w/ a strong FM in the party, i honestly felt worthless as hell. not only was it hard to keep up w/ their tornado dance speed, but when i managed to get some hits on the enemies, i felt like it made little difference. the monsters would have died at the same time w/o me being there. and since im there, that FM is getting less meseta and items. looking at the big picture, it was almost impossible for me to genuinely "help" the FM in the party. sorry, but it really bothers me b/c i want to actually be able to help others instead of just hold them back.

w/ my new FM, i have never felt worthless in any party. im not max level nor do i have all 50% +10 items, but i feel that im close enough to at least be helpful. actually, now i have problems w/ being too strong (according to poor players who dont understand that im really helping them), which is annoying.

MF does indeed fail. AF fails too. how about you compare your clear times w/ FM and GM instead?

I agree that MF isnt for everyone. I always love using magic in games so ive always played as forces in phantasy star games, but enough is enough. my love for power is greater than my love for magic, so FM is for me. the funny thing is, im actually having a hell of a lot more fun w/ psu now, as cast FM.

if you enjoy MF, thats fine. keep it up. but dont let it blind you from seeing the truth about how terrible they really are.

[Akio-Kasai]

why cant i compare the types? they all kill monsters, and some do it better than others. if one type is way the hell better than another, i cant just ignore that.

when i was playing as MF w/ a strong FM in the party, i honestly felt worthless as hell. not only was it hard to keep up w/ their tornado dance speed, but when i managed to get some hits on the enemies, i felt like it made little difference. the monsters would have died at the same time w/o me being there. and since im there, that FM is getting less meseta and items. looking at the big picture, it was almost impossible for me to genuinely "help" the FM in the party. sorry, but it really bothers me b/c i want to actually be able to help others instead of just hold them back.

And what about FF? And FT? A FiG? If they're all TD'ing ahead of everything and you cant get hits in with a LONG distance techer, what the hell makes it different with a close range? Hmm?

With this statement, you're saying every class but FM fails, not just MF. This is a pretty ignorant response in my opinion. If you're playing with a whole group of FM's then go to a different party.


MF does indeed fail. AF fails too. how about you compare your clear times w/ FM and GM instead?

I agree that MF isnt for everyone. I always love using magic in games so ive always played as forces in phantasy star games, but enough is enough. my love for power is greater than my love for magic, so FM is for me. the funny thing is, im actually having a hell of a lot more fun w/ psu now, as cast FM.

if you enjoy MF, thats fine. keep it up. but dont let it blind you from seeing the truth about how terrible they really are.

No MF does NOT fail, just because it can't clear things as fast as FM and GM can, does not mean it fails. There are MF's who can out play the TDing noobs that FM brings. -_-

Not everyone cares about their clear times or their power, and once again, I'm sorry but if you couldn't hit anything with your MF, you were doing something wrong. Because in our party of FM's and my friend being a MF, he did just fine with his long distance techs.

[_Vyser_]

By now, it should be pretty obvious where I stand on the issue of MF. Allow me to explain my reason for playing this class.

First off, I know MF isn't the best class in the game; it's pretty obvious. I think it's more fun to play than most classes, so that's why I play it. Back when AotI first came out, I tried out AF and AT on different characters. I absolutely loved the casting speed of of AT, and had no interests in switching to FT. The fact I could cast fast enough that most monsters could barely move, if at all, was a big seller to me. Once I knew about MF's techs, I started to prep for it. I switched to FT to get my techs to 31+, because I didn't want to waste tech exp. I didn't like it at first, but I grew to enjoy the bonuses of getting 31+. At this point, I was stuck. I loved AT's casting speed, but I liked the benefits of stronger techs. Thankfully, MF has both casting speed, AND even stronger techs than FT. This was very ideal for me, so the switch was obvious. Yeah, it sucks MF only gets level 10 support, but I should be attacking most of the time anyway (I do play gimped AT during harder spawns usually though).

Basically, I wanted a combination of AT and FT, and that's what MF is like. If I ever feel the need to support, I have an AT alt just for that. Whenever I know power is needed to do really fast runs, I'll switch to my AF main; isn't that what mains and alts are for? I have noticed that I can run certain missions easier as MF than AF though.

MF is a situational class, and is obviously not for everyone. I play it for the speed (since I can't stand using slow weapons) and the nice challenge of it. If I think MF will not do well in a certain mission, I'll use someone else. In most cases though, the time difference isn't that noticeable. If you love the class, great; if not, then that's just fine too. All I'm trying to do is tell people MF isn't as bad as many people say it is. It really doesn't matter what class you are in most missions (bonus excluded), and that's why I enjoy this game. If this were the case, melee classes would be impossible to play as with Newmans. From what I've read, this doesn't seem to be the case.

[Sexy_Raine]

I think this is what we are all doing right now and how us used-to-be techers look at the techer classes lol


Just like me :P

They'll be more of us soon, just wait till we get Hive GBR. :lol:

[Shou]

lol i just got my first rifle bullet to 31 (cuz ive been lvling lazers and shotties) and yeah Masterforces suck lol. poor Jarbas cant do anything at all? jesus christ!

Its up to SEGAC to revive the techer classes with a HUGE power boost and/or better cround controll. With how weak techers are offensivly now they should have double the defences then that of fighters and gunners to be balanced out.

[Inazuma]

And what about FF? And FT? A FiG? If they're all TD'ing ahead of everything and you cant get hits in with a LONG distance techer, what the hell makes it different with a close range? Hmm?

With this statement, you're saying every class but FM fails, not just MF. This is a pretty ignorant response in my opinion. If you're playing with a whole group of FM's then go to a different party.



No MF does NOT fail, just because it can't clear things as fast as FM and GM can, does not mean it fails. There are MF's who can out play the TDing noobs that FM brings. -_-

Not everyone cares about their clear times or their power, and once again, I'm sorry but if you couldn't hit anything with your MF, you were doing something wrong. Because in our party of FM's and my friend being a MF, he did just fine with his long distance techs.

every class but FM/GM/PR fails, yeah. thats b/c they just arent as good in comparison.

let me see if i can explain my thinking here. FM, GM and PR all have the potential to help the party more than any other type, depending on the mission. but all the other types (such as AT, MF, FF, AF) dont have a mission where FM GM or PR wouldnt be a better choice. they are worthless in that sense.

can you think of a mission where having a MF/FF/AF/whatever in the party would bring the clear time down more than having a FM, GM or PR would?

for example, lets say a FM can clear seed express in 12 mins. if you were to add another party member, which one would lower the clear time the most? FM maybe? or GM perhaps. what about if the party has 2 FMs and you need a 3rd member? PR might be the best one to add there. I dont think there is a time when adding a MF to the party would be the best choice. so b/c there is always a better choice, they are "worthless".

if you have 2 axes w/ the same stats, except one has four times the power of the other, you could say the weaker one is worthless b/c you will always pick the stronger one. is there a mission where using halarod instead of pwand would give you a faster clear time? i dont think so.

btw, i dont always demand that everyone who joins me is the very best type possible. if having a 2nd FM is best but a GM joins, thats fine to me. its likely that the GM will do just fine, since they are extremely strong. but if a FF or fG joins, they will always be worse than the master type version.

talking about MF in particular, it wouldnt be that bad if they were at least somewhat close to FM/GM. they wouldnt be the best, but it would be very close so its not that big of a deal. but thats not the case. MF is just so bad in every way, and by a massive amount.

[fayt6]

every class but FM/GM/PR fails, yeah. thats b/c they just arent as good in comparison.

let me see if i can explain my thinking here. FM, GM and PR all have the potential to help the party more than any other type, depending on the mission. but all the other types (such as AT, MF, FF, AF) dont have a mission where FM GM or PR wouldnt be a better choice. they are worthless in that sense.

can you think of a mission where having a MF/FF/AF/whatever in the party would bring the clear time down more than having a FM, GM or PR would?

for example, lets say a FM can clear seed express in 12 mins. if you were to add another party member, which one would lower the clear time the most? FM maybe? or GM perhaps. what about if the party has 2 FMs and you need a 3rd member? PR might be the best one to add there. I dont think there is a time when adding a MF to the party would be the best choice. so b/c there is always a better choice, they are "worthless".

if you have 2 axes w/ the same stats, except one has four times the power of the other, you could say the weaker one is worthless b/c you will always pick the stronger one. is there a mission where using halarod instead of pwand would give you a faster clear time? i dont think so.

btw, i dont always demand that everyone who joins me is the very best type possible. if having a 2nd FM is best but a GM joins, thats fine to me. its likely that the GM will do just fine, since they are extremely strong. but if a FF or fG joins, they will always be worse than the master type version.

talking about MF in particular, it wouldnt be that bad if they were at least somewhat close to FM/GM. they wouldnt be the best, but it would be very close so its not that big of a deal. but thats not the case. MF is just so bad in every way, and by a massive amount.




just one thing about your statement about helping party members most...im gona have to give that to acrotecher..lmao

[_Vyser_]

It would be boring is everyone was the same class. A little variation is nice from time-to-time. It's nice the friends I play with could care less who is what race/class.

[Akio-Kasai]

This is becoming ridiculous. There is obviously no way to sway your mind on this subject, the point is MF is not useless. No class is useless, but what the people hating on MF fail to realize, is this game isn't all about big numbers and being an elitist. People may use MF because it looks cooler, just like with your axe example. If that stronger axe is ugly, I wouldn't use it as much.

Either way this is my final post, I'm done trying to show you that this game isn't all about numbers or about speed, and that a class is not useless because it cannot kill as fast as another.

People don't always flock to the strongest, a class is not useless because of how it looks on paper. It's the player that matters, if they have fun with it then good. However saying a class is bad because it cannot compare in speed to another is ignorant, and makes you look like an elitist who cares for nothing but how strong you are.

This thread is done, and this discussion is over. Everyone has their way of playing.

Edit: Fixed some spelling errors. -Leaves-

[Inazuma]

just one thing about your statement about helping party members most...im gona have to give that to acrotecher..lmao

can you give me an example of this? im looking for something like:

for seed express, a team of FM + AT can clear the mission faster than a team of FM + GM

[DarthLasek]

Out of this whole entire thread...all I have to say is....Master classes hard? What? Are you kidding me? It's a class...and unless you have played one class your whole time on PSU and used 2 weapons...that shouldn't even be a issue....hard seriously?


EDIT: Whoever thinks clear times = better players....is a fool. Sorry if I come off as offensive to anyone.

[BeanyMcBeany]

My friend on the xbox360 had some questions a bout changing to masterforce for all that pp u use just buy cati / skill pp save or i cant remember that might be it he is lvl11 masterforce its amazing

[Inazuma]

If that stronger axe is ugly, I wouldn't use it as much.


so a player doing 100 damage w/ a cool axe is better than a player doing 400 damage w/ an ugly axe?

i think the strong ugly axe is better and you think the weak cool looking axe is better. which one does PSU (the game itself) think is better? sounds to me like you gave up trying to be good at the game, and have to change the rules to make yourself feel better. last i checked, players were rewarded for killing monsters, not for looking cool. if the point of psu was to look cool, then the weaker axe would truly be better.

btw, you dont even look cool. for all the players like me who think that stronger weps are better since the game says so, they look at you w/ your weak axe and see a crappy player who is anything but cool.

[Lyrix]

I think the strong ugly axe is better and you think the weak cool looking axe is better. which one does PSU (the game itself) think is better? sounds to me like you gave up trying to be good at the game, and have to change the rules to make yourself feel better. last i checked, players were rewarded for killing monsters, not for looking cool. if the point of psu was to look cool, then the weaker axe would truly be better.


Actually, one of the main points and primary draw of most people to PSU IS to look cool, that would be why the customization is so extensive, the clothes don't affect stats, the weapons look different, and the armor only changes the colors of the lines on the clothes.

If the point wasn't to look cool, we would have one model for each race/gender, all the weapons would look the same, there wouldn't be as many weapon types, and the look would be decided based on what armor you were wearing.

Think before spouting nonsense XD

[_Vyser_]

Out of this whole entire thread...all I have to say is....Master classes hard? What? Are you kidding me? It's a class...and unless you have played one class your whole time on PSU and used 2 weapons...that shouldn't even be a issue....hard seriously?


EDIT: Whoever thinks clear times = better players....is a fool. Sorry if I come off as offensive to anyone.

The only thing I can think of being hard about the master classes is not being used to the different playing style. Once you get that down, it's pretty easy to play as them.

But you're right about the clear time. Just because one team (purely for example) is good at spamming PAs like majarra or jabroga doesn't mean they're as good as a team that gets the same time, without using any of the "broken-classed" PAs.

[fayt6]

can you give me an example of this? im looking for something like:

for seed express, a team of FM + AT can clear the mission faster than a team of FM + GM

stronger buffs = more damage
heals when ever = less time dieing
diga to take down arms = faster kill time on mb
giresta stuff like that..lmao

[_Vyser_]

Oh yeah, forgot how much diga owns Mother Brain's arms. :O

[Inazuma]

Actually, one of the main points and primary draw of most people to PSU IS to look cool, that would be why the customization is so extensive, the clothes don't affect stats, the weapons look different, and the armor only changes the colors of the lines on the clothes.

If the point wasn't to look cool, we would have one model for each race/gender, all the weapons would look the same, there wouldn't be as many weapon types, and the look would be decided based on what armor you were wearing.

Think before spouting nonsense XD

looking cool is part of psu, sure. but does it favor looks over stats for weapons, like the axe example we were talking about?

and if the point WAS to look cool, you would be rewarded for wearing fancy clothes or using shiny weapons instead of killing monsters. hell, we wouldnt be fighting monsters as the main activity in the first place. btw, you are punished for wearing clothes since they take up inventory slots, lol.

there is a lot of customization in the gran turismo series also, but actually racing your car and winning races is the main point of the game.
the top spin tennis series also. lots of character customization, but winning tennis matches is the goal of the game.



stronger buffs = more damage
heals when ever = less time dieing
diga to take down arms = faster kill time on mb
giresta stuff like that..lmao

FM = kills monsters fast as hell
GM = kills monsters fast as hell

are you saying FM + AT clears seed express faster than FM + GM?

[Lyrix]

looking cool is part of psu, sure. but does it favor looks over stats for weapons, like the axe example we were talking about?

and if the point WAS to look cool, you would be rewarded for wearing fancy clothes or using shiny weapons instead of killing monsters. hell, we wouldnt be fighting monsters as the main activity in the first place. btw, you are punished for wearing clothes since they take up inventory slots, lol.

there is a lot of customization in the gran turismo series also, but actually racing your car and winning races is the main point of the game.
the top spin tennis series also. lots of character customization, but winning tennis matches is the goal of the game.


Your axe example doesn't work in the game though, I compared the damage between a 1* saber and my blackheart once long ago, The difference of ~500 ATP made a damage difference of about a grand total of.....FIFTY! :D no weapon in this game will make as much a difference as you said in your example XD

And your other examples? not relevant at all, ENTIRELY different genre, OF COURSE the point of a racing or sports game is to win, but PSU is neither, it is a MMO, a social game, the only point is to have fun with other people, which is easily achieved through looking cool and doing nothing. XD

[Sexy_Raine]

This is becoming ridiculous. There is obviously no way to sway your mind on this subject, the point is MF is not useless. No class is useless, but what the people hating on MF fail to realize, is this game isn't all about big numbers and being an elitist. People may use MF because it looks cooler, just like with your axe example. If that stronger axe is ugly, I wouldn't use it as much.

Either way this is my final post, I'm done trying to show you that this game isn't all about numbers or about speed, and that a class is not useless because it cannot kill as fast as another.

People don't always flock to the strongest, a class is not useless because of how it looks on paper. It's the player that matters, if they have fun with it then good. However saying a class is bad because it cannot compare in speed to another is ignorant, and makes you look like an elitist who cares for nothing but how strong you are.

This thread is done, and this discussion is over. Everyone has their way of playing.

Edit: Fixed some spelling errors. -Leaves-

As I said before, some people don't like getting the short end of the stick. I've stuck with being a techer for awhile mainly because it's what I enjoy. It gets harder to enjoy it realizing the other types are much better. Give me PSU V1 fortetecher all over again, then I'll be happy. It was challenging yet effective to use.

From the very start of AOTI, I realized the system changed for the worse, and didn't like how techer was barely improved, but I didn't let it sway me. That is until master types came out, as MF is barely an improvement over FT as far as offense damage goes add the loss of support and horrible offensive stats. I've reached the point where couldn't play techer anymore, as I gave it so many chances. And couldn't enjoy it for what it was.

I'm going to abuse GM for all it's worth, and kill off my experience with the techer offense style entirely. I'll still play AT, but not as much. I'm done ranting.

[Kumlekar]

can you give me an example of this? im looking for something like:

for seed express, a team of FM + AT can clear the mission faster than a team of FM + GM

My uninformed opinion says that thats true for bladed legacy. Buffs/heals are useful for the techer enemies, and regrant is fabulous for magashi. In other areas, I'd take an AT in any party of four or more. (for maximum effect from buffs, and at that point damage is hitting dimishing returns)

EDIT: I'm saying that this would be easier for bladed, not necessarily faster.

[thunder-ray]

I guess when it comes down to it there are two kinds of players.

Players that play for power and speed: The players that cant stand to be weak and have too be the strongest with the best equipment.

Players who play for fun and enjoyment: The players that simply play to have fun on the game and they dont care about being the best but at the same time they play to be decent players.

Back on topic in my opinion I find MF a change from FT simply cuz FT was just too easy. Yes we dont have to argue the fact that FT did more dmg then MF did tech wise. I only play the class for the speed and cool looks that lvl 41+ techs have. I feel MF is a great class for my play style but I understand that its not for everyone and I can respect that everybody has their own opinion.

[fayt6]

looking cool is part of psu, sure. but does it favor looks over stats for weapons, like the axe example we were talking about?

and if the point WAS to look cool, you would be rewarded for wearing fancy clothes or using shiny weapons instead of killing monsters. hell, we wouldnt be fighting monsters as the main activity in the first place. btw, you are punished for wearing clothes since they take up inventory slots, lol.

there is a lot of customization in the gran turismo series also, but actually racing your car and winning races is the main point of the game.
the top spin tennis series also. lots of character customization, but winning tennis matches is the goal of the game.




FM = kills monsters fast as hell
GM = kills monsters fast as hell

are you saying FM + AT clears seed express faster than FM + GM?

ummmmm kinda? lol they are there for support after all so they do kinda bring down the play time on the missions....and to be honest...really any class will bring down the play time on the mission...yes even master force but seriously the point of the game is to have a good time..cuz when they shut down the servers do you want your memorys to be...oh dude i cleared td in 3 mins...OR do you want then to be of all the interesting people u met and the new friends u have...ya know?

[_Vyser_]

As I said before, some people don't like getting the short end of the stick. I've stuck with being a techer for awhile mainly because it's what I enjoy. It gets harder to enjoy it realizing the other types are much better. Give me PSU V1 fortetecher all over again, then I'll be happy. It was challenging yet effective to use.

From the very start of AOTI, I realized the system changed for the worse, and didn't like how techer was barely improved, but I didn't let it sway me. That is until master types came out, as MF is barely an improvement over FT as far as offense damage goes add the loss of support and horrible offensive stats. I've reached the point where couldn't play techer anymore, as I gave it so many chances. And couldn't enjoy it for what it was.

I'm going to abuse GM for all it's worth, and kill off my experience with the techer offense style entirely. I'll still play AT, but not as much. I'm done ranting.

Ah, I see where your frustration came from then. Under those circumstances it's understandable why you wouldn't enjoy playing a techer class. It's a shame the whole JA system was put into place, it messed up a lot of things. Hopefully the balancing issues between melee and teching will be addressed. From what I've noticed, bullets seem to be fine as is, but I'll leave that up to a seasoned ranger-types to decide that.

[Majarra]

Master classes are for elites. You have to play correctly and think intelligent. Unfortunately thats out for FM. all the newbs have 10-20% mugunruks with 50 dus majarra and lvl 8 redda and spiral dance.

[DesuJet]

Master classes are for people that don't suck (except for fighmaster). If you suck, go back to forte or a hybrid class. /thread

[redroses]

I can fully understand people are not satisfied with MF as it did get a really minor upgrade from FT. FM and GM got such great boots it really is unfair. On the other hand, this should have been expected as FT already got the short end of the stick. But saying MF fails is a little too harsh IMO as it is better than FT but just not as good as the other Masterclasses. It is still a fun class to use and can be helpful in parties (except in parties full of elitist). All in all, I do wish MF will become a big boost in damage and Multi hitting targets. It doesn't need more support as that isn't it's role and that's great, we have enough teching classes than can support.

Now, what I also want to mention is that Inuzuma is being really to hard on everything. I mean, we all know by now that Inuzuma is a big elitist and only cares about mission time, if it is fun for him I do not know, but I know that this playstyle will never be fun for me, or some others. So, I do not care what kind of classes people play or what race/class combo they are as long as we all have fun. Yes I don't mind Cast Techers joining me, or Newman Fighters(I am one myself). For me this game is all about fun and, I have the most fun thinking about my looks and yeah having fun with friends on missions, even if it takes longer. I also don't use the strongest weapons if they look ugly in my eyes. For example I use a Okarod with my Newman FF because I just love the way it looks on her and have so much more fun playing that way. I just don't see my chars as some mission finishing machines I give them some background info and personality.
Inuzuma, if you really have fun being an elitist it's ok, but just don't go bashing on other classes or race type combos just because you wouldn't use them. Or expect other people to only think about fast mission clear time as you do. I just would appreciate if you understand the playing style and fun for others as we can understand yours.

[Africa]

Mf got the short end of the stick?..it's techers in general they all need re-balancing.At this point i can't even see mf being better than ft at all in most parties yet alone solo. I enjoy the tech classes but there is very little to no redeeming qualities about most of them at this point.The other classes take little to no effort to be good at and the ones you need to put some effort in aren't really worth it unless you enjoy it.It's time for another psu re-balance hopefully this one will make the game balanced in some way.Just ask yourself what is it that techers are good at? and you'll see what's wrong with them.

[shadowsniper6]

As I said before, some people don't like getting the short end of the stick. I've stuck with being a techer for awhile mainly because it's what I enjoy. It gets harder to enjoy it realizing the other types are much better. Give me PSU V1 fortetecher all over again, then I'll be happy. It was challenging yet effective to use.

From the very start of AOTI, I realized the system changed for the worse, and didn't like how techer was barely improved, but I didn't let it sway me. That is until master types came out, as MF is barely an improvement over FT as far as offense damage goes add the loss of support and horrible offensive stats. I've reached the point where couldn't play techer anymore, as I gave it so many chances. And couldn't enjoy it for what it was.

I'm going to abuse GM for all it's worth, and kill off my experience with the techer offense style entirely. I'll still play AT, but not as much. I'm done ranting.

Why were you ranting in the first place?
were you mad cause you couldn't hit anything as a mf? gunmasters stealing your kills?
if you don't like techerism any more don't play it

[Matic]

if you don't like techerism any more don't play it

It doesn't sound like she is.

[Inazuma]

ummmmm kinda? lol they are there for support after all so they do kinda bring down the play time on the missions....and to be honest...really any class will bring down the play time on the mission...yes even master force but seriously the point of the game is to have a good time..cuz when they shut down the servers do you want your memorys to be...oh dude i cleared td in 3 mins...OR do you want then to be of all the interesting people u met and the new friends u have...ya know?

ok i give up. no matter how many times i ask you to compare AT's clear time w/ the other types, you wont do it. ill just say it for you then. the clear time would be lower w/ FM or GM instead of AT, therefore they are actually more helpful than AT.

when i look back at psobb, im happy that i was the very best fonewearl. no one else even came close. i accomplished all my goals in psobb, including getting every useful item for fonewearl. i could beat anyone in rule 1 battle mode as well, including other fonewearls that were almost 100 levels higher than me. i doubt if i can ever become the best psu player since i stupidly stuck to MF all this time. my FM is crap compared to others, but i will at least try. either way, i can look back at psu and be happy i did my best.

[fayt6]

you only asked like once or twice...and i kinda did give u evidence idk if u looked or what but if ya think about it i was kinda right lmao
i said resta = heals and less time your actualy dead ....
oh and buffs yea they make ya stronger so your attacks will hit for higher NUMBERS lmao wich brings down the clear time...
they can also cast diga ...kinda fast at mother brains arms hitting for around 1800(my human acrotecher) or around that...so the arms will die kinda fast making fighmaster able to jabaspam or majjara spam her in her face

and inazuma you can become the best...cuz the beauty of psu is that its not really that hard sure bullet pas kinda take a while to lvl but fighter pas are fast to lvl and if you already capped force u can do runs to get rares and just transfer items and other stuff over and mass synth and get some decent weps n line shields so if you try im sure you can do great good luck on your world domination of psu ^^

[XxAntMan215xX]

No master class is for elite players is there even a thing called elite on this game when everyone has the same spells weps and armors etc......what exactly can you call elite?Now if this were the old days where if u died you lost rank and meseta was hard to come by then i could consider people elitist but these days its so easy to buy anything or easily raise a class or PA art how can you consider yourself elite.I actually found the best players are the ones who play for fun compared to these so called "elitist" with that 10/10 ank buti and lvl 50 jabroga ......

[Magus_84]

ok i give up. no matter how many times i ask you to compare AT's clear time w/ the other types, you wont do it. ill just say it for you then. the clear time would be lower w/ FM or GM instead of AT, therefore they are actually more helpful than AT.

when i look back at psobb, im happy that i was the very best fonewearl. no one else even came close. i accomplished all my goals in psobb, including getting every useful item for fonewearl. i could beat anyone in rule 1 battle mode as well, including other fonewearls that were almost 100 levels higher than me. i doubt if i can ever become the best psu player since i stupidly stuck to MF all this time. my FM is crap compared to others, but i will at least try. either way, i can look back at psu and be happy i did my best.

The comparison to BB is what makes your viewpoint really amusing. On PSO, a "well-played" foney, (by what I assume your definition is from your love of "mages" and your rage-on for OMG DAMAGE), would actually be detrimental to a high-offense team if they weren't smart. This is due to anemic tech damage being completely gutted by sky-high resists and ending up damage cancelling everyone else. Especially if the other teammates are using sacrificials (Berserk/Spirit/Charge). Forces on PSO did better with casting support techs and then using weapons, at least in Ultimate multi-mode. Slight reprieve in Ep4, but try nuking in Ep2 and be prepared to cry. Which you probably did, loudly and repeatedly...leading to your disgusting elitism here as compensation.

Anyway. Does anyone here on the NA PS2/PC servers know enough good M Cast FMs/GMs to be able to form competent, consistent parties of only those "superior" classes?

No?

Yeah, what I thought. Most people here (other than you) don't play on the "superior" JP servers. Or if they do, they aren't bothered enough by our use of "inferior" classes to the point where they feel the need to proselytize for them in a crusade against all characters that aren't M Cast FM/GM/PT.

That's where most of the arguments are coming from here. While in theory, you're correct in your analysis of the classes' differing abilities. We know ST sucks at balance. They have since PSO. But you're applying your conclusions to a community that doesn't exist.

You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want. The population's small enough here that most people choose to play in groups of their friends, not in random parties optimized to farm SEED Express for the most efficient meseta-to-time ratio. And since most people aren't hardcore elitists, they're going to choose to play with their friends and use what they want to use. They may optimize based on what they use within that class, but they're likely picking that class and that race because there's a combination of abilities that appeals to them.

The great thing about PSU (one of its only real steps up from PSO's balance, IMO) is that damage cancel no longer exists. Anyone who's adding damage, no matter how little it is, is still adding damage. They aren't cancelling out their stronger teammates. The only way a party member can be actively detrimental to their team is when they're knocking enemies around and positionally screwing up their teammates' attacks.

Which, as you've probably noticed, is something the majority of FMs with low-% weapons tend to do. But as they're obviously "superior", you never seem to mention that part.

In your perfect world, everyone really would be a M Cast FM/GM and would be solely dedicated to running only the most profitable missions on a meseta/time ratio. There's no mechanical reason why that's bad. It's "optimal". One slight problem though.

That world exists only in your head, Inazuma. And maybe in certain sections on the JP PC/PS2 servers, on which the majority of PSOW doesn't play. Your bitching about that world that doesn't exist does nothing but alienate people from you here. Not that it matters...since you don't even seem to understand the concept of "friendship" as being paramount to meseta/time.

You'd be much better served by posting these arguments somewhere that the population of the game actually has the means and werewithal to support them. Ie, the Japanese servers.

So go rant there, please.

[XxAntMan215xX]

>< that was harsh.....

[Magus_84]

>< that was harsh.....

Yeah, it was intended to be. He reminds me of a consultant at my place of work. Coming in, setting up a new system. Ignoring all the realities of the situation and saying that all our business processes must change RIGHT NOW since it's slightly more efficient to do things this way.

And offering no help to actually do any of the conversion.

There are people in this world who are entirely incapable of understanding any concept of human-system interaction. They assume that the system is the system, the system works this way and everyone should automatically do things this way. Ignoring training the users how to do things the new way, keeping the procedures running while the months-long transition takes place, untraining them on the old processes, training the customers to actually use the new system and convincing people to like the new system enough to actually use it.

Which of course, never works. Kind of the same way that saying "doing things any way but this way is stupid and a failure", when overlooking the fact that those same methods were top of the line six months prior, and haven't gotten any worse just because something at the optimal end of the performance spectrum has gotten a slight improvement in efficiency when given enough resources.

Problem with that? People are variable. They're going to do what they want to do, and the more you berate that way of doing things, the more they hate you.

[fayt6]

magus_84 > inazuma lmao

[Hiero_Glyph]

Inazuma is right though. Given the way the game is currently balanced only a handful of classes are even worth playing.

[Magus_84]

Inazuma is right though. Given the way the game is currently balanced only a handful of classes are even worth playing.

Yeah. It's a shame all those people who've been leveling non-Master classes and PAs for the past few years didn't get the memo two years ago that eventually all of their hard work would be invalidated.

Sucks to be them, I guess.

I'm of the opinion that if you enjoy playing a class and you aren't actively trying to screw over your teammates, that's at least a bit of added worth. As long as you're aware there are "better" ways to do things that require you to do things entirely differently, it's your choice.

If everyone were ignorant of what Master classes can do, I'd feel far more comfortable with Inazuma's argument. Thing is, they're not. And yet they're still choosing to use non-Masters. And non-Casts. Obviously, those classes are still "worth playing" to them.

For the record, my two highest-leveled characters are a human male AT and a beast male GM. I enjoy the AT more, despite the GM being overwhelmingly more powerful and somewhat more survivable.

[Inazuma]

you can hate me all you want, but im only speaking the truth. if FM + GM clears missions faster than FM + AT, thats that. no amount of complaining will change it. it doesnt matter if im nice or an asshole or whatever. the game is the way it is, and im not responsible for designing it.

also, its entirely possible for someone to do more harm than good to the party. lets say a FM can clear the mission in 10 mins. if a poor player were to join him, and the two of them cleared in 8 mins, the FM would actually be earning meseta and items slower than he was solo. this is b/c meseta and item drops arent boosted that much when a new party member joins. if the new player has higher luck, that can help some. too bad the number of boss boxes stays the same. unless that 2nd member is at least fairly close to the FM in strength, he will only end up doing harm.

b/c of how the game works, i try to stick of parties of 2, maybe 3 members. 4 is about as many as i can take. and of course solo is very good, if not the best choice. its not too hard to find one other player who shares the same playstyle as me, so forming optimal parties is a lot easier than you make it sound.

[Magus_84]

you can hate me all you want, but im only speaking the truth. if FM + GM clears missions faster than FM + AT, thats that. no amount of complaining will change it. it doesnt matter if im nice or an asshole or whatever. the game is the way it is, and im not responsible for designing it.

also, its entirely possible for someone to do more harm than good to the party. lets say a FM can clear the mission in 10 mins. if a poor player were to join him, and the two of them cleared in 8 mins, the FM would actually be earning meseta and items slower than he was solo. this is b/c meseta and item drops arent boosted that much when a new party member joins. if the new player has higher luck, that can help some. too bad the number of boss boxes stays the same. unless that 2nd member is at least fairly close to the FM in strength, he will only end up doing harm.

b/c of how the game works, i try to stick of parties of 2, maybe 3 members. 4 is about as many as i can take. and of course solo is very good, if not the best choice. its not too hard to find one other player who shares the same playstyle as me, so forming optimal parties is a lot easier than you make it sound.


No, you're responsible for preaching it.

Boot them, since you would be getting more meseta solo at that point, and you've made it abundantly clear that's what is important to you. That's your choice.

You're on JP. The majority of the population here isn't. That was my entire point.

[DreXxiN]

Removed due to Seo posting on this account.

[kevington]

*Applause to Magus_84*

It's nice (and rare!) to see such an intelligent, thoughtful and well-articulated point here. Props to Magus for bringing it back to the main point which seems to be left out of the equation-- PSU is a GAME. It's not a job, it's not your whole life. It's a game people play to have fun and built into it are a huge variety of ways to play. Attitudes like Inazuma's drain all of the sense of fun right out PSU.

[Hiero_Glyph]

No, you're responsible for preaching it.

Boot them, since you would be getting more meseta solo at that point, and you've made it abundantly clear that's what is important to you. That's your choice.

You're on JP. The majority of the population here isn't. That was my entire point.

Preaching what? The truth?

Japan is 6+ months ahead of us in content, so just because you are playing the game your way does not invalidate the way he plays. I hate to say it but the 360 is already following this trend and parties are dominated by GM and FM (at least the ones I play with). I'm sure that it won't be long before the NA/EU PC/PS2 servers follow as well.

As with all things you can either adapt to the changes or get left behind. You have made your choice, don't speak for everyone and let them decide for themselves. Everyone plays for different reasons and just as Inazuma has voiced his opinion, you can voice your own. Don't blame him because he has validated his claims that not all classes are created equally. Stick to playing for fun and enjoy the game just as we are enjoying it. Just don't blame us when we have a much easier time clearing missions and therefore have a better chance at acquiring meseta and items.

[BIGGIEstyle]

Yeah. It's a shame all those people who've been leveling non-Master classes and PAs for the past few years didn't get the memo two years ago that eventually all of their hard work would be invalidated.

Sucks to be them, I guess.

I actually take the opposite viewpoint to an extent. I think that the master types have somewhat enhanced the effect of the "less-effective" classes.

If you've ever been the person in a group who's leveling your character and you try to attack/shoot/tech a certain enemy only to have it Jabrga bombed out of distance, or Tornado spammed across the stage, then you know how nice it is to have the AF come in with their slicers, dealing fair damage but NOT spamming the enemies all over creation.

How many times have you been soloing something with large painful enemies (Bead groodes perhaps) and getting knocked around like a rag doll, only to have a Protranser come in and freeze EX it to the floor? I personally think that's more useful than the GM TRYING to stun lock it with knockback rifles- which doesn't last for long.

I know as well as everyone else does that if DPS and profit>time is what you want that FM is your best bet, followed by GM. My main is a FM and with only crappy 30% weapons I can out-DPS anyone short of a good GM or a FM with better gear.

However, "optimal" is a word that's thrown around a lot. Seeing as PSU is a multiplayer game we will assume "optimal" is used to describe the term on which something is the most beneficial to everyone. If you do nothing but solo in PSU, you are not getting optimal use out of the game and this doesn't really pertain to you :P

Which is more optimal? 4 FM or 4 PT fighting De Rol Le? My answer says PT because in the time the FMs couldn't hit him, the PTs are- slowly- racking up damage.

This game is too simple for the arguements about optimization and profit>time because honestly, how hard is it to get ANYTHING you want in this game, short of the really rare items like Red / Knight? I can say that within 1 year of playing (not that I've only BEEN playing for a year, but as a reference point) the only things I've never seen drop in a party I was in have been the Red / Knight/Force/Wall, a Milla, and I'm pretty sure that's it. Ask someone who played another online game if they could see all but 4 of the "rare" items the game has to offer in 1 year and they'll laugh at you.

Eventually, if you keep optimizing your profits, you'll cap all 4 characters, PMs, and the common box on meseta, after equipping yourself in the most elite gear you can get, but really if you get to that point, where's the point in playing anymore? As far as games go it's not the destination that's exciting, it's the time spent getting there and the experiences you had along the way. If you're okay with duoing until you're "the best" then I am very sorry for you.


Stick to playing for fun and enjoy the game just as we are enjoying it. Just don't blame us when we have a much easier time clearing missions and therefore have a better chance at acquiring meseta and items.

First point to make: Easier time clearing? Hardly. The word you're looking for is FASTER. Easier is not always faster. I could very easily clear a map with a Lv1 PT using nothing but freeze trap EX, it would not be efficient, but it would be VERY easy.

Second point to make: You'll get a better chance at acquiring meseta and items? In reality, yes. Technically, no. You acquire items as easily as someone who takes 4 hours to clear a mission, you just do it faster. I was farming Catilium at Bladed Legacy on my FM, as was a friend on her AF. While my DPS was far larger and I was running about 5 missions to her 3, in the span of 10 runs she had gotten nearly DOUBLE the amount of catilium I had and I was the one with higher luck. Speed doesn't make anything better other than efficiency.

[Magus_84]

Preaching what? The truth?

Japan is 6+ months ahead of us in content, so just because you are playing the game your way does not invalidate the way he plays. I hate to say it but the 360 is already following this trend and parties are dominated by GM and FM (at least the ones I play with). I'm sure that it won't be long before the NA/EU PC/PS2 servers follow as well.

As with all things you can either adapt to the changes or get left behind. You have made your choice, don't speak for everyone and let them decide for themselves. Everyone plays for different reasons and just as Inazuma has voiced his opinion, you can voice your own. Don't blame him because he has validated his claims that not all classes are created equally. Stick to playing for fun and enjoy the game just as we are enjoying it. Just don't blame us when we have a much easier time clearing missions and therefore have a better chance at acquiring meseta and items.

I'm not saying it invalidates the way he plays. I'm saying that the majority of the people in this topic arguing with him are doing so because he's trying to invalidate the way they play. As he's proven in multiple, multiple topics.

And I kinda doubt NA PC/PS2 will ever have the population to have a reasonable chance of finding good GMs/FMs in random parties, but that's where we are going to have to agree to disagree. A larger portion of the population may move to having GM/FM, but that still doesn't mean that enough of them will be floating around able to be grabbed for parties, because there aren't enough "good" ones available for randoms now.

On the money thing. Funnily enough...I've been able to buy pretty much everything I've ever really wanted to buy from the money my main character has made, as a human male GT/AT. One of the least "efficient" classes around. That's with failing most of the "rare" synth stuff I've found, because my PM hates me, and giving away some of the other stuff to friends.

You don't necessarily have to brute force your way through missions to be able to make money. It simply takes a head for the markets. And brute force does make it far easier. For those times when I'm feeling antisocial and actually want to solo and destroy things, I have the GM. I don't think I'm going to be "blaming" you for anything...especially since the three of us play on different servers and will likely never meet in-game.

Drex, the only reason I brought up the servers is because their population size affects your chances at finding certain party makeups, assuming you aren't playing with close friends you already know. Therefore, you have to tailor your expectations of what you'll find in a random party to what you're actually going to be able to find.

The impression I get from Inazuma is that he goes looking for random parties, or joins them, due to being on the JP server with their "OMG LEET SKILLS" and their higher population. I have no idea on Hiero_Glyph's playing habits, but since he tends to post a lot about AT, I'm assuming he's in parties fairly often. And he's on 360, which definitely has a higher population than NA PC/PS2.

[Inazuma]

On the money thing. Funnily enough...I've been able to buy pretty much everything I've ever really wanted to buy from the money my main character has made, as a human male GT/AT. One of the least "efficient" classes around. That's with failing most of the "rare" synth stuff I've found, because my PM hates me, and giving away some of the other stuff to friends.


im not surprised its easy to get gear for GT and AT. items that are crappy arent worth much. its pretty simple. there is a reason the top gear for FM/GM is extremely expensive you know.


Which is more optimal? 4 FM or 4 PT fighting De Rol Le? My answer says PT because in the time the FMs couldn't hit him, the PTs are- slowly- racking up damage.

you are correct sir. but you are forgetting about the time it takes to reach the boss. overall, the team of 4 FMs would have cleared the mission much faster than the team of 4 PRs.




First point to make: Easier time clearing? Hardly. The word you're looking for is FASTER. Easier is not always faster. I could very easily clear a map with a Lv1 PT using nothing but freeze trap EX, it would not be efficient, but it would be VERY easy.

Second point to make: You'll get a better chance at acquiring meseta and items? In reality, yes. Technically, no. You acquire items as easily as someone who takes 4 hours to clear a mission, you just do it faster. I was farming Catilium at Bladed Legacy on my FM, as was a friend on her AF. While my DPS was far larger and I was running about 5 missions to her 3, in the span of 10 runs she had gotten nearly DOUBLE the amount of catilium I had and I was the one with higher luck. Speed doesn't make anything better other than efficiency.

who cares about technicalities if the reality means making more meseta? the stronger char will make meseta faster, bottom line.

[fayt6]

wow...inazuma just doesnt stop does he lmao

[BIGGIEstyle]

you are correct sir. but you are forgetting about the time it takes to reach the boss. overall, the team of 4 FMs would have cleared the mission much faster than the team of 4 PRs.

Heh. You are correct as well, I was making a generalization based on the boss time only :P


who cares about technicalities if the reality means making more meseta? the stronger char will make meseta faster, bottom line.[

Not as much of an arguement per se, just a pointing out that he used the words "better" and "faster" interchangeably when they aren't ALWAYS the same thing.

I'm curious as to your response to the rest of what I said there with an example of how even though the FM was clearing missions almost twice as fast WITH better luck, the AF still would've made more meseta in the same time frame....

And as the random note, this is a forum where you are free to express your opinions people- not a pit with a dirt floor where you use words to slay your enemy. Y'all need to quit getting so bent out of shape over things. Personally, I like Inazuma, he's someone you can banter back and forth with on the workings of the game and compare opinions. At least he back his points up, which is more than I can say for some people around here :P

[Inazuma]

as requested (^_^)b



Second point to make: You'll get a better chance at acquiring meseta and items? In reality, yes. Technically, no. You acquire items as easily as someone who takes 4 hours to clear a mission, you just do it faster. I was farming Catilium at Bladed Legacy on my FM, as was a friend on her AF. While my DPS was far larger and I was running about 5 missions to her 3, in the span of 10 runs she had gotten nearly DOUBLE the amount of catilium I had and I was the one with higher luck. Speed doesn't make anything better other than efficiency.

there is a big element of luck in psu, which explains why sometimes its possible for a slower player to get more items than a faster player. someone could do 300 runs of seed express and find one armasline board, and another could do a single run and find one. but my point is, the faster you are, the more chances you get at items dropping.

if you and your AF friend kept doing bladed legacy everyday for a week, chances are you would end up w/ more catilium than her.

why do people buy more than one lottery ticket? b/c it increases their chances to win big money. psu is no different. in the end, faster is indeed better.

[BIGGIEstyle]

there is a big element of luck in psu, which explains why sometimes its possible for a slower player to get more items than a faster player. someone could do 300 runs of seed express and find one armasline board, and another could do a single run and find one. but my point is, the faster you are, the more chances you get at items dropping.

if you and your AF friend kept doing bladed legacy everyday for a week, chances are you would end up w/ more catilium than her.

That's about what I expected your answer to be :P

I'd love to actually test the theory on that and get back to you, seeing as my group is planning on farming Catilium for a very LONG time for group usage, but the friend in question bores of Bladed Legacy faster than I do so it will never be a true test lol

As for the earlier thing you said in this thread about not being able to be a superb FM since you dedicated all your time to teching, that's a pretty lame excuse man lol

Autumn has played a techer since day one and decided to jump ship same as you did, and while it's taking her a bit longer than it would take someone else who was prepared, she's getting there just like I'm sure you can.

Hell, I don't know anyone in this game Jp/Eu/Us/Xbox/ or what have you that has a stronger drive to be "THE BEST ________" as you. I give it a month or two tops and you'll be cream of the crop compared to everyone else.

[Shou]

EVERYONE plays for fun. Just because people are playing the hell out of GM and FM doesnt mean it isnt fun. They did give FM and GM the most usefull weapons even though they can only use 4 types.

The bottom line is that people need to at least understand that the classes ARE extremely unbalanced and that if you crunch the numbers and consider all the variables, the best classes are FM GM and PT. They all dont slow the party down and each bring a unique and necessary element to the "best party you can be" in PSU.


As for Masterforce: Supposed to be a completely offencive class with infinite trimate and sol atomizers. But it sucks offencivly so WTF is this class for?.... Oh! I know! its supposed to be fun to use! Two words that ruined the fun of being a techer... TECH NERF...

If you think a class is fun because its weak making the game harder i think you are a little crazy... *I'm a fighmaster but i like a challenge so imma use the opposite element armor as the attacks being used against me and weapons that have elements the same as the enemies!* its the same thing.

I know! lets all play chess with only pawns and a king! Thats stupid...

All in all nobody is playing a class that isnt fun to use but has big #s. People are just looking for both fun AND efficiancy.

This IS all SEGAC's fault. The classes should be unique but equal in usefullness. Lets just all wait and see what the big JP spring update has to offer.

Then we can all light our tourches and grab out pitchforks! :argh:

[Inazuma]

That's about what I expected your answer to be :P

I'd love to actually test the theory on that and get back to you, seeing as my group is planning on farming Catilium for a very LONG time for group usage, but the friend in question bores of Bladed Legacy faster than I do so it will never be a true test lol

As for the earlier thing you said in this thread about not being able to be a superb FM since you dedicated all your time to teching, that's a pretty lame excuse man lol

Autumn has played a techer since day one and decided to jump ship same as you did, and while it's taking her a bit longer than it would take someone else who was prepared, she's getting there just like I'm sure you can.

Hell, I don't know anyone in this game Jp/Eu/Us/Xbox/ or what have you that has a stronger drive to be "THE BEST ________" as you. I give it a month or two tops and you'll be cream of the crop compared to everyone else.

i said my FM is crap but you would probably think he is awesome. when i started him i had around 1.3b meseta and i spent pretty much all of it on FM gear. my weps are 42%+, i have a full set of armaslines at 34% or so (w/ 8 more boards waiting for synth bonus), and i have a lot of great units such as pijeri resist, hizeri mind, chaos knight, the 420 powercharge unit (forgot the exact name). when i was lv 100, i was doing over 7k damage a hit w/ jarbroga and now w/ my lv 120 char and lv 35 redda, im doing just under 10k w/ the last hit. ive been yelled at and booted for being too strong/fast many times as well.

here is a screenshot of me clearing seed express S when i was lv 93
*edit* i got the s rank reward, btw.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk183/inazuma65/psu20090123_234514_000.jpg

[garjian]

masterclasses are terrible...
fighmaster is boring...
gunmaster is even more boring than fortegunner is...
and masterforce killed buffs...

theyre only made the game worse in my opinion...

im tired of jabroga spamming... and not having buffs... and all the arguements i keep getting into about it.

in fact no... theres 1 good thing... at least jabroga spammers arent wasting time anymore... on back when it was FF's spamming it... the run would take forever... and i could pretty much kill everything before jabroga hit...so at least theyre getting hits out now ^^

[RedRaz0r]

masterclasses are terrible...
fighmaster is boring...
gunmaster is even more boring than fortegunner is...
and masterforce killed buffs...

theyre only made the game worse in my opinion...

im tired of jabroga spamming... and not having buffs... and all the arguements i keep getting into about it.

in fact no... theres 1 good thing... at least jabroga spammers arent wasting time anymore... on back when it was FF's spamming it... the run would take forever... and i could pretty much kill everything before jabroga hit...so at least theyre getting hits out now ^^

I'm sorry you feel that way. Have fun with your slow mission times while the master class players clear them twice as fast.

[Yunfa]

EVERYONE plays for fun.


It would nice if that is indeed the case, but some people take great pride in a game, so when they feel they are lacking due to other people's comments for opinions, you can expect them to get upset.

From my perspective, all Inazuma is saying is: "THE FASTER THE BETTER! OH LOOKIE MY "E"______ is BIGGER!!! HUR HUR"

Or else he would not have brought up of him only spending over a bill of meseta, or owning all different attribute armas lines. I didn't read the entire thread, but someone must have hurt his ego, or else this thread wouldnt alive!

My questions is...Inanuzuma, why bother with Armas Lines (maybe they're cheaper eh?) when on the JP servers there are better armors such as the Rabol Orakio, which is basically an Armas Line for GT and PT some people hate, with dulk falkis aura when it blocks, OR the one i have my eyes on, the Rabol Rol Le, all slots, 305 DEF, 489 EVA, -8 END, either that or RED LINE with 500 EVA, with AT or AF their EVA would up above 2000, stick the proper resist on the armor, and you're virtually unstoppable.

Bottom line, people take this game way too seriously, to the point where the slightest remark on each other's playing methods ends up in a debate. Why so serious eh?

[Inazuma]

i do play for fun. the more i improve and the better i do in a game, the more fun it is to me. i dunno about you, but being weak and sucking at a game isnt very fun. but to each their own.

[Melissa805]

To be honest I have not read all the posts in this topic and I can only speak from personal opinion on fighmaster because I have not yet used the others yet.
But the fighmaster is a good job although they didnt make it over power everything else and all that stuff. Here are what I have realized sence I have ever fighter job up to 20. Forte fighter has more attack so most people think fighmaster is weaker and this is a great understanding. In the long run I do believe that fighmaster is stronger. For example using the same weapon and photon art I did the comparison with dusmajara and spear. Same armor and all by the way. Basicly with the fighmasters photon art able togo to 50 while fortefighter gose to 40 both their dammage equals out and if it dosnt fortefighter may do about 50-100 more dammage which is nothing to be shocked about. But what I believe makes fighmaster better is that even though it may hit for a tiny bit less the increased speed makes it do more dammage then the fortefighter. Also people do not like it for the limited weapons it has vs forte fighter. Which is one of the draw backs along with the pp drain of the fighmaster because everyone knows that there is always a draw back. But fighmaster for me has my favorite weapons which includes double saber and in the end what are you looking for pp or dammage. On top of this I have the 4 weapons it can use with all the photon arts for them up to 50 so when I use them toghether these weapons or more then enough to take down my enemys.
Opinion: Fighmaster is better then Fortefighter in dammage over time.

[Akio-Kasai]

i dunno about you, but being weak and sucking at a game isnt very fun.

This is what you and the elitists fail to understand, you think if you're not a FM or Gm you suck at this game, but if you have to be the class that can run things the fastest and blow through anything with no trouble, it's YOU who sucks.

The people defending the other classes, are people who can play this game without that power, without that speed. You still don't understand that playing the best class, means you have less skill.

While the people who play the worse classes, are the people who NEED the skill to survive. Like MF. MF sucks so badly eh? Why? Because you actually receive damage? Because you actually need SKILL to survive?

Get out of your fantasy Inazuma and realize what you're playing takes less skill then any other class you will ever use. You honestly think your fast times are from your skill and not the broken class don't you? Because it isn't, it's from the broken class. Not your skill, and as long as you play the broken classes, you will never have skill. You will only have your inflated ego, and your fantasy world where you believe you are better then everyone because you can play the broken classes.

Have a nice day.

-Akio

[beatrixkiddo]

Inazuma says MF sucks because it does. He was one of the best MFs on JP, before finally switching to FM.

[darkante]

Here is how it´s summed up.

Fighmaster, Gunmaster = Most efficient and can destroy just about anything with their Speed plus power in matter of seconds.

Forte classes = Balanced, good power but with less speed and more weapon choises.

Hybrids = Have the most variety and are the least powerful, but can still hold their own.

I for one, play for fun and effiency. Not really a number cruncher, i love variety*.
I try a class and play it out to the fullest.

*It varies depending on perspective, for me it means i´m open to try out alot of classes and are not stuck on a particular one.

Also..you can still be strong playing as a opiniated weaker class.
It´s not the class that makes the player, it´s YOU.

[redroses]

Inazuma says MF sucks because it does. He was one of the best MFs on JP, before finally switching to FM.

It seems to me that Inazuma isn't only talking about MF anymore, but about all classes that aren't FM.

On a side note:
Like Akio said, playing a FM doesn't take much skill, only a huge amount of meseta. I mean, using Jabroga and Majarra gets kinda boring and neither PA need much skill. And just because somebody doesn't play the easiest to play race/class type combo doesn't mean they suck :l but ok. Casts would be so useless if they didn't have Paradi and everybody would've went Beast FM. I really do hope they nerf Paradi in this new PSU update thing so people can finally use some skills again than rather just fly through missions without any effort and calling themselves good players lol.

Edit: It's like taking the fastet car with the best handling etc. in a racing game, winning all races ONLY with that car and calling yourself a good driver (probably still using a speed up cheat). But than when you take a other car you suddenly totally suck because you notice you have no idea how to even drive without all the support from the good car.

[Inazuma]

This is what you and the elitists fail to understand, you think if you're not a FM or Gm you suck at this game, but if you have to be the class that can run things the fastest and blow through anything with no trouble, it's YOU who sucks.

The people defending the other classes, are people who can play this game without that power, without that speed. You still don't understand that playing the best class, means you have less skill.

While the people who play the worse classes, are the people who NEED the skill to survive. Like MF. MF sucks so badly eh? Why? Because you actually receive damage? Because you actually need SKILL to survive?

Get out of your fantasy Inazuma and realize what you're playing takes less skill then any other class you will ever use. You honestly think your fast times are from your skill and not the broken class don't you? Because it isn't, it's from the broken class. Not your skill, and as long as you play the broken classes, you will never have skill. You will only have your inflated ego, and your fantasy world where you believe you are better then everyone because you can play the broken classes.

Have a nice day.

-Akio

so you think MF requires the most skill to play? considering how well i did w/ it and how rare it was for me to die, that would make me very skilled according to you. i played forces in pso/psu exclusively up until very recently. back in psobb, i remember soloing dark falz in multimode ultimate as a lv 81 fonewearl w/o dieing once.

i consider smart decision making as a skill, and that includes which race/type you play as. you dont see the world's top chess players trying to win their games w/ pawns only b/c it takes more skill to do so. they use the best piece they can, no matter which piece it happens to be. if they are pitted against someone like you who stubbonly uses pawns only in the name of great skill, who do you think will end up as the winner of the game? and who gets the acclaim for being the better player by others?

[Sexy_Raine]

I agree with Inazuma, even Acrotecher can't even keep up with FM/GM as AT offense damage is pathetic compared to those two even with the lv50 Shifta added!! Though I still put AT above MF/FT, their support is far outdone by FM and GM using Megistrides. AT actually had something going for it before the Masters came out, but not anymore.

[Melissa805]

You are all wrong if you thought they were going to release some godly new class that beats the rest because for ovious reasons this would throw the game off ballance because if lets say fighmaster was the strongest job in the game and could just pwn everything it would leave the other fight jobs to collect dust if it had no side effects. Ill tell you right now fighmaster is not perfect its downsides are its limited weapons its pp drain and things such as this but its strong pieces are its pa's its ability to use double sabers and many other things people are also so simple minded that if they see 1 job do 50 more dammage they assume its better without putting other conditions into effect.
On a nother thing I am tired of see'in people say this job sucks and that job sucks being tossed around when its a personal opinion and all its doing is making people upset and argue like me myself I think fighmaster is a good job but to be honest Id rather play as a protrancer or gunmaster because I have more fun using these things it has which is what the game swhould be about.
So next time your going to run in and say That Job Sucks! without any logical and fact information to back it up you really just shouldnt speak
Although mentioning that you personaly dont like a job yourself is a nother story but I am not noticing this. So please try and be mature and use some manors even if it is on a forum.
For example I am posting this because of the replys I got on a earlier post and the it sucks was one of them.
I made sure everyone understood it was my personal opinion I listed some of the reasons I thought it was good/bad then I losted some logical facts I tested myself about it to back up what I though was good/bad about it.

[Meta77]

You are all wrong if you thought they were going to release some godly new class that beats the rest because for ovious reasons this would throw the game off ballance because if lets say fighmaster was the strongest job in the game and could just pwn everything it would leave the other fight jobs to collect dust if it had no side effects. Ill tell you right now fighmaster is not perfect its downsides are its limited weapons its pp drain and things such as this but its strong pieces are its pa's its ability to use double sabers and many other things people are also so simple minded that if they see 1 job do 50 more dammage they assume its better without putting other conditions into effect.
On a nother thing I am tired of see'in people say this job sucks and that job sucks being tossed around when its a personal opinion and all its doing is making people upset and argue like me myself I think fighmaster is a good job but to be honest Id rather play as a protrancer or gunmaster because I have more fun using these things it has which is what the game swhould be about.
So next time your going to run in and say That Job Sucks! without any logical and fact information to back it up you really just shouldnt speak
Although mentioning that you personaly dont like a job yourself is a nother story but I am not noticing this. So please try and be mature and use some manors even if it is on a forum.

Agreed people should try new jobs types and nothing will ever be perfect in the game but enjoy it for what it is. I knew there was a reason i loved you XP

[CelestialBlade]

AT is *gasp* a support class. I'm not really sure why anyone expected them to be able to make epic clear times o_O

Masterclasses, as I see them, are pretty much the complete opposite--all offense, no support. And that's how they were meant to be. They're not supposed to be the classes to end all classes, that would be really dumb (as Melissa mentioned) and would completely destroy the game's balance. Masterclasses have to trade variety and support for more offense, deal with it.

I personally can't stand any of the Masterclasses because I think the sheer lack of variety is pretty boring, but that's just me. My playstyle favors me being useful to the party in a more supportive role while providing some offense, so I tend to play classes like GT and AT. But just because someone's playstyle isn't LOL PURE OFFENSE doesn't mean they suck. Clear times aren't everything, and some people simply have different goals.

If your only goal is clear times, then sure, Fighmaster your brains out. But it's not for everything. Nor is any class. It's rather depressing that this thread is *still* going on just because people can't leave well enough alone when it doesn't agree with their ideals, it seems.

[Shou]

What? Show me where somone expected AT to make great clear times? Now having an AT in a party as support SHOULD be better than not having a different class but it isnt. Again the game isnt balanced.

Nobody is bagging on anyone else for playing the classes they play. But people that say classes are effective and efficient when they arrent are begging to be called out. Its pretty obvious but allot of people wont accept the fact that some classes suck compared to others in this game and the way the battle/play system works. AGAIN this game isnt balanced.

[Rambo!]

It is a sad state that people are still arguing about this

[Hiero_Glyph]

What? Show me where somone expected AT to make great clear times? Now having an AT in a party as support SHOULD be better than not having a different class but it isnt. Again the game isnt balanced.

Nobody is bagging on anyone else for playing the classes they play. But people that say classes are effective and efficient when they arrent are begging to be called out. Its pretty obvious but allot of people wont accept the fact that some classes suck compared to others in this game and the way the battle/play system works. AGAIN this game isnt balanced.

That is entirely the point as a GM has a fairly quick clear time. Add in an AT to the party and the clear time barely moves. If you substitute a second GM or FM for the AT the clear time decreases by a much larger margin. As a result, having a more offensive class is better than a supportive class. Sure, you can still play an AT and deal substantial damage but the damage is minor when compared to how quickly it increases the speed of the run.

It should be noted that at some point enemies will die so quickly that support becomes pointless. As a result, having a support class does nothing as the slightly increased damage becomes negligible. Overall the game is too easy for a true support class to shine. If anyone has ever played FFXI you will know just how popular White Mages are as a party cannot survive without one. In PSU, a support class is easily replaced by di/trimates, sol/star atomizers and buff items.

What this means for PSU is that a better offense negates the need for any defense. As a result support classes are considered weak as they are valued based solely upon their offensive merits (this is why a CAST is considered the best AT) and survivable classes are not wanted either (thus the WT debate). Techers have been nerfed to the N'th degree and any class with a striking weapon or ranged weapon makes them look pathetic in 99% of all situations. As a result we are left with only offensive classes that do no use technics as the primary classes in PSU.

It is sad as I prefer an AT over every other class but as with all changes you must learn to adapt to the times. A Fighmaster, Gunmaster and Protranser are currently the most dominant classes in the game. At some point, weapon updates/drops may validate some of the other classes but the same will be true for the primary classes as well. Besides, for every Elsral or Falclaw (the elemental one), there are many more Ank Buti, Ank Kireek, Mugunburga, Carriguine-Rucar+, Crea-Doubles+, etc. So every time a weaker class gains some strength, the power classes have ample opportunity to regain their dominance.

Please note that I am against this balance of power, but SEGA has shown very little interest in keeping the classes balanced. As a result I play the class that provides me with the most enjoyment. Unfortunately that means I do not like feeling 'gimped' so I prefer to play the classes that gives me the most return for the time I have invested into them. As some have already pointed out, they feel that playing these classes means I have less skill than other players. This is unfounded and untrue as I would consider myself one of the top ATs on the 360 servers. As noted before, I prefer to help my party in the best way possible and playing a support role just doesn't do much any longer. As a result I choose to help kill enemies now instead of keeping my teammates alive while they acquire all of the kills.

[Polantaris]

I'm just annoyed that random weapons got the shaft when it comes to Master Classes. Just some examples: Bow, Attack Mag, All Claws, Knuckles, Slicers, Daggers, and Single Handguns.

Half of those things are my favorite weapons on my non-tech characters. I don't care much for Mags and Handguns, but the rest I use, and I can't get 41+ techs for them because they decided to just randomly give certain weapons the shaft.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I'm just annoyed that random weapons got the shaft when it comes to Master Classes. Just some examples: Bow, Attack Mag, All Claws, Knuckles, Slicers, Daggers, and Single Handguns.

Half of those things are my favorite weapons on my non-tech characters. I don't care much for Mags and Handguns, but the rest I use, and I can't get 41+ techs for them because they decided to just randomly give certain weapons the shaft.

How did they get the shaft? Do you mean that they did not drastically increase in price to the point where new players cannot easily afford them? If anything you should be thankful that these weapons are not part of the Master equation as they remain fairly affordable.

Not every weapon needs a level 50 PA and even if they did get that high, only a few classes would be able to use them at that level. Look at the PT for example, they can still use C-S rank weapons, have 40 bullets and 30 striking in addition to having exclusive use of EX traps. So how is their Bow, Saber, Handgun, etc. getting shafted?

You post does not make much sense.

[Polantaris]

Price isn't that important, seeing as how the only thing that would increase in price is the S variants of those weapons. Either way, A level 50 PA has at least a 10% damage increase, mostly more, in addition to whatever advances the Master classes gain over the normal classes. PA is an exception, because they are a very powerful class in the first place, but someone that isn't using PA but is using some of those other classes doesn't get anything extra, and doesn't get level 50 PAs.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Price isn't that important, seeing as how the only thing that would increase in price is the S variants of those weapons. Either way, A level 50 PA has at least a 10% damage increase, mostly more, in addition to whatever advances the Master classes gain over the normal classes. PA is an exception, because they are a very powerful class in the first place, but someone that isn't using PA but is using some of those other classes doesn't get anything extra, and doesn't get level 50 PAs.

A 10% damage bonus is easily offset by a high % weapon as it does the exact same thing. Look, in the end it comes down to versatility versus power. If you want to play a power class then play a Master, if you want versatility then play an Expert type. Not all classes are created equally, so either play the class with the power or expect to be weaker. I guess you could continue to BAW about it though (here's a hint: SEGA doesn't care).

[Polantaris]

I understand that, I was just making a comment. I assumed I was allowed to do that.
I wasn't "baw"ing about anything, I was just making a comment and an observation. You made a comment about my comment and I responded to that. Simple as that.

[_Vyser_]

I hate to say it, but I do agree on the whole argument of GM/FM > AT in clear times. Personally, I like AT because I don't have to use as many items, if at all, if a decent one is in the party.There is only so much power you can add to a party before someone wont be able to hit anything (doesn't take too many GM/FM to do that from what I've noticed). If there was a party of 2 FM, 1 PT, and 3 GM (just some random numbers) I'm sure most of them wont be able to tag every monster because things will die so fast. It's at this point I think an AT spamming resta would be nice, but not mandatory to result in a fast clear time.

It's reasons like this why I prefer PSU over games like FFXI. Yes, FFXI was a good game, but it relied too heavily on needing a white mage and someone to tank. Since I liked playing Dark Knight, I got the shaft most of the time. Yes, PSU is really easy, but it's the freedom of being able to run missions solo, or with a group of all melee that makes this game fun to me. Here's to hoping for some decent balancing from the "expansion".

[fayt6]

ya know i hate to admit it..but i tryed fighmaster and...i really really hate to admit it but inazuma is right fighmaster just kills...=/ imma go cut myself for saying that now...

OH and itd be funny if after the rebalance sega made every class suck evenly and inazuma gets all confused and stuff lmao >.> srry had to edit that in there...<.<

[Shou]

After the balance if techers become the strongest offensivly ill immediately drop my guns and go to MF lol

[Sexy_Raine]

ya know i hate to admit it..but i tryed fighmaster and...i really really hate to admit it but inazuma is right fighmaster just kills...=/ imma go cut myself for saying that now...

LOL, just wait till the Luminus Power charge comes. FMs and GMs are going to have a blast with their lv50 PA's. It's gonna be fun :D

[darkante]

LOL, just wait till the Luminus Power charge comes. FMs and GMs are going to have blast with their lv50 PA's. It's gonna be fun :D

I guess you guys like to eat Photon Charges like candy. :3
I rather stick with my Kaos Knight unit as you only lose some ATA instead, ty very much.

[_Vyser_]

I wish SEGAC would release more information about the future balancing >_< I'm curious if they're gonna fix the imbalance between all the classes and to what degree.

[Inazuma]

I guess you guys like to eat Photon Charges like candy. :3
I rather stick with my Kaos Knight unit as you only lose some ATA instead, ty very much.
you are forgetting we can change our units while we play. usually i will carry both kurze knight and powercharge w/ me and try to use powercharge as much as i can, depending on the length of the mission and how many pp charges i have left. seems to work out well.

[DesuJet]

jesus christ 19 pages?!? Seriously, are you guys really that bored with the game?!?

[darkante]

you are forgetting we can change our units while we play. usually i will carry both kurze knight and powercharge w/ me and try to use powercharge as much as i can, depending on the length of the mission and how many pp charges i have left. seems to work out well.

Well, maybe i would care more if it were on a Beast. They have better reasons.
But as people has made me realise, that ATA loss doesn´t do much dmg on a Cast. :3

[_Vyser_]

jesus christ 19 pages?!? Seriously, are you guys really that bored with the game?!?

Most of it is us arguing over the same thing. We basically recycled the same stuff for a few pages.

[Shou]

jesus christ 19 pages?!? Seriously, are you guys really that bored with the game?!?

Hu? Wouldnt arguing over a game show that we are in to it?

Anyway if you are gonna post about how its stupid that a topic is still hot then don't post at all.

[Calsetes]

I'd rather people post here when they're bored than hop on the PC servers and spam the event area with a bunch of useless stupid nonsense. But I'm weird like that - I like my chaos organized and out of the game I'm playing as much as possible.

On a side note, I usually play my master classes with PP savers on me at all times, just because I'm a cheap SOB who doesn't like using charges unless it's an emergency situation, just like healing items - unless I'm in the yellow, or standing in an empty room with a dimate sitting on the floor in front of me I probably won't heal myself. I got me some HP bullets for that.

HOORAY CHEAP! BOO MISTER PENNYBAGS!

[Darius_Drake]

Hu? Wouldnt arguing over a game show that we are in to it?

Anyway if you are gonna post about how its stupid that a topic is still hot then don't post at all.

To answer your question, I would think so.

[_Vyser_]

On a side note, I usually play my master classes with PP savers on me at all times, just because I'm a cheap SOB who doesn't like using charges unless it's an emergency situation, just like healing items - unless I'm in the yellow, or standing in an empty room with a dimate sitting on the floor in front of me I probably won't heal myself. I got me some HP bullets for that.

HOORAY CHEAP! BOO MISTER PENNYBAGS!

Lmao, I'm exactly like this! I didn't start using photon charges until I switched to MF. I'm also cheap enough to not use healing items unless my NPCs are not alive to heal me. Of course, the irony of this is that it's cheaper to use photon charges than to actually recharge the weapons. I guess it's a habit from the first few months of PSU XD

[darkante]

Lmao, I'm exactly like this! I didn't start using photon charges until I switched to MF. I'm also cheap enough to not use healing items unless my NPCs are not alive to heal me. Of course, the irony of this is that it's cheaper to use photon charges than to actually recharge the weapons. I guess it's a habit from the first few months of PSU XD

I haven´t really put a better use for PP saves unless i´m purposely using it for either Killer shots or P.A leveling.

As i rarely run out of all before the mission ends.
Snag in a 200 % PP usage, and it will be annoying.

[Calsetes]

Once my Gunmaster's bullets are up at 50, I MIGHT swap out my bullet save for a power unit (or possibly that concentrate unit that makes you shoot further... that'll be so awesome). As for my melee guy, there's a 90% chance I'll swap it out for a damage unit, since melees can be recharged by simple attacks which don't bother me at all.

[darkante]

Once my Gunmaster's bullets are up at 50, I MIGHT swap out my bullet save for a power unit (or possibly that concentrate unit that makes you shoot further... that'll be so awesome). As for my melee guy, there's a 90% chance I'll swap it out for a damage unit, since melees can be recharged by simple attacks which don't bother me at all.

The damage coming from the Kaos knight is really noticable if you compare it with a PP unit, so things just hardly demands any need of Photon Charges.
They die too damn fast..which i why i hope for Luck 3 soon to show up on my Caseal so can igo on a more epic Catilium Hunt. HUZZAH!

[Calsetes]

If only I had one of those things.......

Best I can hope for is an old Solid / Knight I found after already trading one in for an SPF armor.

[Sexy_Raine]

Chaos Knight won't cut it for me as the Laser Accuracy modifier sucks. For me it's pp bullet save until everything is 50. LPC won't bother me much with the charges since they're fairly easy to get during any mission.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Chaos Knight won't cut it for me as the Laser Accuracy modifier sucks. For me it's pp bullet save until everything is 50. LPC won't bother me much with the charges since they're fairly easy to get during any mission.

Gunmasters have a 250% ATA modifier. Are you really concerned about losing 100 ATA?

Also, it is 'Kaos' Knight.

[_Vyser_]

Speaking of which, I should pick one of those up. I've been using cati/skill on my AF for a long time. Now that my PAs are either level 40, or very close to 40, I should probably switch to a Kaos Knight to help my DPS. Now what to do with that cati/skill...

[Shou]

which i why i hope for Luck 3 soon to show up on my Caseal so can igo on a more epic Catilium Hunt. HUZZAH!

Don't need 3* luck to hunt that. All box drops are not effected by luck or drop rate boost because there is always a 100% chance a box will drop an item ^_^ so hunt while they are still worth 600k a pop!

[Sexy_Raine]

Gunmasters have a 250% ATA modifier. Are you really concerned about losing 100 ATA?

Also, it is 'Kaos' Knight.

F human Gunmaster . I'm not wasting my time with scarred planet runs, when that won't even be the best unit later on. Red Knight is better, that is if I can ever get it. Every chance I get at Phantom Fissure I try for the Red knight. If I never find one before LPC comes, then oh well.

[BIGGIEstyle]

there is always a 100% chance a box will drop an item ^_^

Unless you worded what you mean wrong, this is not a valid statement. I've restarted bladed legacy and farmed the 3 beginning boxes for hours on end, and there were quite a few times those boxes wound up empty. Boxes do not have a 100% chance of dropping an item, unless you are counting "no item" as being an item on their drop chart :P

[Inazuma]

Also, it is 'Kaos' Knight.

this is my understanding of the story behind the name.

ST took the english word "curse" and slightly modified the pronunciation (swapped out the S for a Z) to make it "curze". it makes sense for it to be called curse b/c you sacrifice accuracy to get more power. if the eng translators were trying to keep the game true to the original naming style, they would have indeed named it curze knight. at the least, they could have called it curse knight. its a shame a lot of psu's style w/ names didnt carry over to the english version.

protranzer > protrancer
techter > techer

[BIGGIEstyle]

techter > techer

IMO I'd have to disagree lol

I think that techer for a person who uses Technics (or techniques if we're focusing on the word usages) is a fairly good name.

Many games truncate the word technique to tech, and someone who would use techniques makes plenty of sense being called a techer.

techter makes no real sense to me honestly...

[Rambo!]

this is my understanding of the story behind the name.

its a shame a lot of psu's style w/ names didnt carry over to the english version.

protranzer > protrancer
techter > techer

You mean sega used direct translation software and didn't really care what came out cause there lazy and don't do much right.

[_Vyser_]

Which reminds me, what is the translation for bear claws' description on the JP servers? I'd assume they don't refer to them as twin daggers...

[Hiero_Glyph]

F human Gunmaster . I'm not wasting my time with scarred planet runs, when that won't even be the best unit later on. Red Knight is better, that is if I can ever get it. Every chance I get at Phantom Fissure I try for the Red knight. If I never find one before LPC comes, then oh well.

No Red/Knight is better for every class except Gunmaster. I have both and especially if you are a CAST Gunmaster, the Lumirus/Kaos Knight is indeed a better unit. Now if I switch my male CAST to Protranser then the Red/Knight becomes better; likewise for Acrotecher the Red/Knight is better.

There are few situations where the Lumirus/Kaos Knight is better, but when not using a Cati/Bullet PP Save on a Gunmaster the best choice for damage is the Lumirus/Kaos Knight. Even a male Beast with their pitiful ATA has enough to spare an extra hundred points of accuracy.

Also note that the Lumirus/Kaos Knight is the highest ATP unit without sacrificing an increase in PP cost when using PAs (as the Lumirus/Power Charge provides; 200% increased PA cost for striking and ranged). It should also be noted that the Red/Knight will eventually be surpased by the Vijerina/Cronos, although this may likely be a very long wait. As such the best unit for a Gunmaster remains the Lumirus/Kaos Knight as they cannot afford an extra 200% PP cost when using PAs on top of their normal 20% increase. For all other classes the Red/Knight is better, at least until the Vijerina/Cronos is released (if ever).

[Sexy_Raine]

Still not worth grinding Scarred S2 for. I've had horrible luck getting either, but not worried much. I'll be outdoing anyone using those other 2 units once I have LPC. I have 99mil meseta under all my slots, so a few charges isn't going to hurt me.

I'm still in the process of maxing PA's so I can do without an ATP unit for now. I'll be patient for LPC.

EDIT:BTW is Cronos a 15* unit ? If so we'll probably never see it here with our update schedule :P

[sovalou]

after conducting a test with 0 ATA, I was inclined to believe i would miss atleast 100-99% of the attacks i was attmepting on lvl 65+ monsters. But actually i didnt miss at all, i had the same hit to miss ratio as before as if i never had 0 ATA to begin with. I also used a wide variety of weapons ranging from C to A, still the same results with hits just as accurate as before. I used a lvl 30 female beast (grenalde), Fortefighter lvl 1, with a serafi senba, and a lumirus kaos knight.

But from my own experiment, my conclusion is ATA is by far the most useless stat in the game. SO horray for beast FM/ and PT's :/

[fayt6]

thats kinda why i think psu should'nt have useless stats like ata..i think it should be on a % scale and have it really go by that % ...UNLIKE pm's =/

[_Vyser_]

Yeah, if there's one thing that annoys me about PSU, is that I have no clue what any of the numbers actually are...I've notice larger damage increases from ATP+ units than I have with TP+ units. Then there's the whole "DEF/MND is usesless" stuff or how the difference in damage between most 7* and 9* weapons is almost nothing. Yeah, you might as well try for the highest stat in something to be on the safe side, but sometimes you just wonder if it's worth using Orpad / Legs, Orpad / Guard or Legsless (just an example).