Wartechers

[Kimil Adrayne]

I'm a WT who was glad to hear the upcoming WT class upgrade. "Looking at the stats we'll be 2nd or 3rd place for most stats and the PA Lvl+ option will help us with our lack of lvl 40 PAs". These were my positive first impressions.

Preceding this reaction, my mind turned to depression. "We gain another A rank that will fight for palette space. The number of our S ranks are still poor. Our stats increased but in comparison to other classes, will still be too Jack-of-all-trades-like to have a presence. Techs still take the backseat for our damage output. Even with the PA Lvl+, other classes also get this, getting further ahead, even hitting lvl 50."

I'm glad we get a boost, but I still thing we need level 40 PAs in Something... And maybe another S rank...

I'd say... Lvl 40 Attack Techs, or Melee, or both for lvl 40 PAs. For S ranks Whips or Single Claws makes the most sense in my opinion.

Who Agrees?

[syouz]

they need all twin melee weps in s rank that will make them a unique class like the acrofighter is a master of the one handed weps. make the wartecher the twin melee master or something

[elshagan]

I agree... But since it's called WARTECHER I'd say... S rank Twin Sabers or S rank Doublesabers now that woulda make Wartechers master of double hit weapons :P Now that's something I've always wanted XD Being able to use those bloody double sabers that I keep getting... XD N still being able to use my S rank Twin Daggers n S Twin Claws...

[unicorn]

Why can't they just give WT S-rank Claw and S-rank TCSM.

I would also love to see WT get lvl 40 Attack techs. Considering PALV+ is not applicable for techs.

GT should get S-rank cards and lvl 40 Support Techs.

FT should get a higher ATP modifier(from 70% to perhaps 98%), since apparantly....they can't use Tech limit Breaks, and FTs really don't have anything else going for them in other departments. Even if FTs use PALV+ on whips, spears, bullets, etc, they'll still probably NEVER use them. So if they got a higher ATP mod, maybe they would be a little more versatile.

[Juza]

Our stats are always going to be 'too Jack-of-all-trades-like' to 'have a presence'. That's the entire point of Wartecher. I'd argue the have a presence bit. I'd say that parties tend to be well aware of my presence, especially after I leave. :p Still, I'm on PC/PS2 - of late I've found myself as the primary buffer/healer due to low population. May be different on XBox where I imagine Acrotechers aren't quite so rare.

A-rank double sabers is hilarious at best. There's no real point to it. And double sabers are ugly and Star Wars fanboyish. Oooo look at me, I'm Darth Maul! *twitch* Sorry. I really am, it's just that I'm still suffering from the initial cringe that took place when I hopped on to PSO for the first time and saw a bunch of wannabe Sith. :P

Seriously, though... We do not need another A-rank. We desperately need more S-ranks.

Personally, I'd like S-rank single claws. I admit bias, as I play a claw-wielding numan. However, there's logic here too. :p I can't comprehend how my character can master S-rank twin claws, yet be unable to wield a single S-rank claw. S-rank TCSMs would be nice as well, but since tech damage will never be more than supplementary for WT, I'd prefer melee S-ranks.

I'd cautiously agree to 40 melee PA or 40 attack techs. My gut reaction says no, but I'm sitting on an L/KK and a full palette of high %/high grind weapons. That probably gives me a rose-colored view of my offensive potential. I admit I'm totally in love with my big numbarz now, and am probably forgetting to some extent how badly WT sucks. XD

[ShonagarACE]

Giving WT level 40 skills would make them a FF with a bunch of techs, and level 40 attack techs would make them a FT with good melee.

I can see improving the weapon selection a bit(claws are a good point), but changing the PA's would make the class redundant/broken.

A jack of all trades shouldn't be really good at everything. :-) That's just my two cents.

On another note, what's really hilarious is giving GT those double sabers.

[Genoa]

If I had to pick between Melee 40 or Attack Tech 40...
I'd probably go Attack Tech 40 because it would actually give WT a reason to use Attack Techniques EFFICIENTLY. At the current moment, Melee out-does WT Attack techs greatly.
Even with Attack Techs at 40, Melee can still overpower if you have high % gear.
And as it's been said in many WT topics before. Rods on WT would be great :/

[Deragonite]

Don't underestimate WT's A-rank double sabers. TBH, WT can make the best application out of A-rank Double sabers more so than any other class (unless AT or AF got them).

These hit for 3000+ damage on the 2nd and 3rd part of spiral dance. Tornado Dance will help in tricky situations like Seed Ardites in SE S2.

WT will still be the Jack-of-All-Trades and will be much slower for TA than FM, GM, or even AF, but at least after this update, they don't suck as much.

[Darki]

I don't see WT so bad at melee anymore. I mean, yeah, it's weaker than other classes but I see it logical being a complete hybrid between techer and fighter. The serious issue is the lack of balance between tech and melee damage output, that, taking away the obvious handicap of techs doing SE, range and support, should be overall similar.

I'd say go for techs at level 40. I don't care even if we had our support downgraded to 20 again, and for melee we can take our PAs to 40 too with limit break.

For the Double Saber, I don't have room fore it in my palette. I'dd prefer madoogs, or whips S, not that shyt, I already use them on my fG and I love my current palette...

[unicorn]

Giving WT level 40 skills would make them a FF with a bunch of techs, and level 40 attack techs would make them a FT with good melee.

No it won't.

Fighgunner has lvl 40 Skills and 30 bullets. Is it a Fortefighter with bullets? I think not.

And Fortetecher would still have a couple hundred points of TP over Wartecher, higher EVP, and 10 more levels of Support and Bullets.

[Hero-Break]

Well, it does have to be noted that not all of the customization options are out yet and it has been stated before that there is clearly a Magdoog/Wand option. Along with the TP stat buffs options you would more than likely be able to buff WT techs. As for WTs post patch they are a very solid class with great stats all around. In solo buffed, WTs only have like 5% atp less than FiG now, with acess to whips, (which also recived a buff). As for Techs WT now are nearly on par with ATs, (Newman WTs now have more tp than Newman ATs). They also now have the overall highest def. out of any type.

Even though they have only 5 S ranks, I think that they are perfectly suited for WT and let them be solid without being broken. The free SE's on twin claws and Knuckles are a great help. Twin and single daggers have really high ATA to make up for the WTs (Still) low ATA. Wands are (IMO)better option in terms of Tech S ranks becuase they still have more TP than Magdoogs and you are still able to use a Shagdoog for free damage while using them.

Newman WT here btw.

[Zyrusticae]

The problem is not so much with the class as it is with the weakness of sub-30 techs.

Buff the techs, don't touch the rest of the class. They already have the best stats of any non-acro class, all they need is a boost in the tech department (actually, that goes for all the techer classes aside from MF).

[Kimil Adrayne]

Hmm, so more-or-less collectively, people agree that WT's Attack Techs need a boost? Lvl 40 Attack Techs make sense?

[Darki]

HELL YEAH.

[hiraisho]

Granted I'm still working up my last few techs to 21+ for Wartecher I did do some tests where I swapped out my Har / Quick which I have been using for tech leveling and put in my Orpa / Force. Comparing my tech damage on my 3/10 Tesbra with various spells on target in which they recieve an element bonus to my elemental melee weapons on targets with element advantage I did notice a huge difference in favor of melee.

Lv 40 techs I think could help somewhat (and have sweeter looking techs ^^;), but with the game as it is now, I think our melee will still outclass Techs. That won't stop me from using techs though.

[Criss]

I think WTs are fine with those upgrades. Keep in mind that they're the only class in the game that will get to deal decent damage with all 3 damage types. AT's ATP still pales in comparison to WTs. Plus they also happen to be the most or second most resistant class in the game. Sure, they only get lv 30 PAs, but when those other classes will do half damage to enemies resistant to their damage type, WTs will just switch weapons and keep doing good damage. Or when that MF will start tossing Digas at that dragon because it's the only decent damage he can do, WT will take out the melee weapons and keep dealing the pain.

You can't expect WTs to outdamage any specialized class at their damage type. But while certain types will end up at a disadvantage in certain situations, WTs will always have something up their sleeve, from switching damage type, to emergency healing, or backup buffing.

And depending on how good is that new special customization that boosts A rank weapons' power, WTs might not even need S rank weapons at all.

[Kimil Adrayne]

I think WTs are fine with those upgrades. Keep in mind that they're the only class in the game that will get to deal decent damage with all 3 damage types. AT's ATP still pales in comparison to WTs. Plus they also happen to be the most or second most resistant class in the game. Sure, they only get lv 30 PAs, but when those other classes will do half damage to enemies resistant to their damage type, WTs will just switch weapons and keep doing good damage. Or when that MF will start tossing Digas at that dragon because it's the only decent damage he can do, WT will take out the melee weapons and keep dealing the pain.

You can't expect WTs to outdamage any specialized class at their damage type. But while certain types will end up at a disadvantage in certain situations, WTs will always have something up their sleeve, from switching damage type, to emergency healing, or backup buffing.

And depending on how good is that new special customization that boosts A rank weapons' power, WTs might not even need S rank weapons at all.

I'm not wanting WTs to outclass fortes. I do agree that WT's strength should be the able to take on any situation, by being able to switch between attack types. For this, Attack techs need a boost because they pale incomprehension to our melee.

In situations where enemies are melee and gun resistant, we still tend to do more damage with melee than our techs. This shouldn't happen. This Is why I still think we should get a tech boost, in the form of lvl 40 A.Techs

[Deragonite]

level 40 techs would do what? make our techs look flashier and do 15% more damage? Melee would STILL out damage level 40 techs.

I would love level 40 techs for WT as well, but that really takes a lot of incentive out of FT.

[Darki]

level 40 techs would do what? make our techs look flashier and do 15% more damage? Melee would STILL out damage level 40 techs.

I would love level 40 techs for WT as well, but that really takes a lot of incentive out of FT.

And that is bad because...? WT is currently one of the less played classes. I don't see any problem in that when MF ALREADY take almost 90% of FTs. One or two less...

[hiraisho]

I don't think lv 40 techs would take more techers away from FT since Ft still have rods and higher TP so they would still way outdamage WT on techs. Ft would also side a little more on bullets as a backup while WT would slide more to melee as another form of damage.

[JC10001]

I'd much rather have level 40 melee than level 40 techs.

[Zyrusticae]

Of course you would. That's because skills are simply more powerful as-is. But that's besides the point. The point is that you should always be using techs when techs are favorable, and vice-versa with skills, but that's currently not the case.

I still think a blanket buff to sub-40 techs would be better than giving WTs level 40 attack techs. Either that or increase the TP of every non-MF teching class.

[hewitt]

I think a higher ATP and TP boost is needed, along with access to S rank whips and single claws.

[unicorn]

level 40 techs would do what? make our techs look flashier and do 15% more damage? Melee would STILL out damage level 40 techs.

I would love level 40 techs for WT as well, but that really takes a lot of incentive out of FT.

People like to purposely misinterpret things. We don't want WTs t o be complete techers. We do however want them to be good enough techers. Level 30 techs are not cutting it for WT. WT/GT/FT/AT will not get access to Limit Breaks, thats MF only. So is WT supposed to be stuck with mediocre techs?

Most of the players against the lvl 40 Techs on WT happen to play MF/FT. Which is dumb, since MF/FT have access to rods and have a crapload of TP. Techers feel they lose exclusiveness by giving up 10 more levels. Its like when Fighgunner got Twins, Mechs, and Handgun at S-rank; Guntechers got their panties in a bunch. Tough shit.

A lot of players want LVL 40 Melee, but .... PALV+ will be able to allow that, for certain PAs. I think WT will be too overpowered if they gave them a default of 40 being able to rise to 50.

And WT just got a ATP and TP boost, I don't think they need anymore. They've had to buff this class's stats like 3 times and still haven't succeeded. WT needs higher PA lvls.

Hybrids should compete with Forte/Masters, but not overpower them. I just think ST is scared of making the hybrids broken, thats why they make them so damn weak.... yet they make Forte/Masters broken without any second thoughts.

[Kimil Adrayne]

People like to purposely misinterpret things. We don't want WTs t o be complete techers. We do however want them to be good enough techers. Level 30 techs are not cutting it for WT. WT/GT/FT/AT will not get access to Limit Breaks, thats MF only. So is WT supposed to be stuck with mediocre techs?

Most of the players against the lvl 40 Techs on WT happen to play MF/FT. Which is dumb, since MF/FT have access to rods and have a crapload of TP. Techers feel they lose exclusiveness by giving up 10 more levels. Its like when Fighgunner got Twins, Mechs, and Handgun at S-rank; Guntechers got their panties in a bunch. Tough shit.

A lot of players want LVL 40 Melee, but .... PALV+ will be able to allow that, for certain PAs. I think WT will be too overpowered if they gave them a default of 40 being able to rise to 50.

And WT just got a ATP and TP boost, I don't think they need anymore. They've had to buff this class's stats like 3 times and still haven't succeeded. WT needs higher PA lvls.

Hybrids should compete with Forte/Masters, but not overpower them. I just think ST is scared of making the hybrids broken, thats why they make them so damn weak.... yet they make Forte/Masters broken without any second thoughts.

I agree with everything you just said, Amen

[Zyrusticae]

But, see, by increasing the level of the techs, the hybrid techer classes have to work harder at levelling up those PAs than they would have otherwise.

Hence why, if the problem is just the techs, it'd be better to just boost those instead of making them 30/40. That, and I just like seeing 30/30 on there. It looks nice and balanced.

[Darki]

I don't like having balanced techs. WTs are "in theory" a half fighter half striker techer, so there's no point into giving them the same level on both. That make us carry the "nurse" ord written in the head. I'm not a stupid who never wants to heal/support party, but I consider my class as a frontline techer, and it's not my priority. For that, I'd be an AT, don't you think?

I mean, To FIX the class, it' need better techs, to make it be as the class is supposed to be, a "real hybrid between force & hunter". To make a crap fix to make half of the community shut up and forget about it, it was giving lvl 30 support, and would be giving 40 melee. That is just making us weak ATs w/ Majarra.

Same for GT. Well I'm not "mainly" a GT (I consider myself a "WT" as it's my favorite class and my main character, I play GT but I don't consider myself "GT enough" to really be sure about this), so I'm not really sure if GTs consider themselves as striking or support techers (I've always though about GT being the opposite of WT: WT = fighter/techer, GT = gunner/support), so from my point of view they should have level 40 support as opposition to WT's striking techs.

Also, work harder? C'mon, I levelled Megid from 1 to 21 in less than 10 hours. I'd gladly take a week to level my techs to 31+if I had the possibility. Like if we hadn't the opportunity in those events where are spawned a shitload of monsters... I maxed like 12 PAs without trying just in lightning carnival (Polty madness ftw).

[Zyrusticae]

Also, work harder? C'mon, I levelled Megid from 1 to 21 in less than 10 hours.

And I thought levelling Dugreda to 21 was grueling...

But I thought the idea was to be fair. Techs are already more difficult to level as it is. You really wouldn't mind them being the most time-consuming, in addition to being the most difficult route in the game?

[Darki]

I wouldn't since I've already levelled all my TECHs to 25+ (I did to 21 and they got higher by normal gameplay time), with the exception of support ones that are maxed already.

Am I supposed to be a lazy ass while there are two classes that have TECHs 10 and 20 levels higher than me? if the "fairness" comes from me having less attack abbility as a techer, while I play WT because I LOVE being such hybrid, sorry but no.

And as I said, time consuming? I put the Megid example as it's one of the slower ones. Even Megistar that is slow like hell was levelled in one day. I levelled 3 Dam-techs in less than 15 hours, and I didn't had to level Foie, Barta, Zonde, Diga, Regrants, Dambarta and some others because I use them pretty much and they were at 21+ when I decided to bump up my techs.

I've played only on my main WT for more than 1500 hours. You think losing even 100 hours of that is "time-consumming? I'm sure I haven't played too much time compared to many other people. and, also, I've levelled my PM Battle Stat, I've played with my friends (because I rarely go to solo-PA-levelling), I don't think that's wasting gameplay-time.

Besides, having more TP means ONLY more damage, having level 40 TECHs means more damage AND increased AoE/range AND more targets AND higher SE (and moar flashy laggity look, too). Would you prefer to have all your skills at level 20 and miss the last combos, but more ATP, so you don't have to bother levelling them? C'mon.

[unicorn]

Same for GT. Well I'm not "mainly" a GT (I consider myself a "WT" as it's my favorite class and my main character, I play GT but I don't consider myself "GT enough" to really be sure about this), so I'm not really sure if GTs consider themselves as striking or support techers (I've always though about GT being the opposite of WT: WT = fighter/techer, GT = gunner/support), so from my point of view they should have level 40 support as opposition to WT's striking techs.


This. I always thought GT and WT were supposed to be opposites of each other too. Even GT's class description says "Long range support". I think 30/20/40/30 suits Wartecher very well, and 10/40/30/40 suits Guntecher very well. Acrotecher is somewhere in the middle with 20/20/30/50. Even if Wartecher gets 10 more levels for attack techs, Acrotecher still techs faster and has more TP, so there really isn't much to fuss about.

Also, I think there should be a reason why Wartecher is supposed to be a pre-req for Masterforce. As of right now, it doesn't make sense.

[Ceresa]

After update, WT has nearly the same TP as FT, double the ATP and 20 more levels in skills.

Why exactly, would anyone play FT if WT got 40 attack techs? No one will play FT just for rods access.

40 support sure why not...of course WT on JP can clear WBS2 in 9 minutes, so it's not exactly like the class needs shit.

[Zyrusticae]

Am I supposed to be a lazy ass while there are two classes that have TECHs 10 and 20 levels higher than me? if the "fairness" comes from me having less attack abbility as a techer, while I play WT because I LOVE being such hybrid, sorry but no.
Of course that's not what I said... I really wish people would stop setting up straw men like this. Oh, well.

Let's be fair, here. There are also a number of classes that have skills 10 and 20 levels higher than you. You're not honestly going to use that as a justification for a hybrid class having an equivalent level of skills and techs, are you? It just doesn't make sense as an argument.


Besides, having more TP means ONLY more damage, having level 40 TECHs means more damage AND increased AoE/range AND more targets AND higher SE (and moar flashy laggity look, too). Would you prefer to have all your skills at level 20 and miss the last combos, but more ATP, so you don't have to bother levelling them? C'mon.

But, see, this is the problem. Going from 30->31 entails all of that. Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

I know that the difference between level 30 skills and level 40 skills isn't nearly as great as it is for techs, and that's really where the problems lie, not so much with their lack of level 40 techs.



And as I said, time consuming? I put the Megid example as it's one of the slower ones. Even Megistar that is slow like hell was levelled in one day. I levelled 3 Dam-techs in less than 15 hours, and I didn't had to level Foie, Barta, Zonde, Diga, Regrants, Dambarta and some others because I use them pretty much and they were at 21+ when I decided to bump up my techs.

I've played only on my main WT for more than 1500 hours. You think losing even 100 hours of that is "time-consumming? I'm sure I haven't played too much time compared to many other people. and, also, I've levelled my PM Battle Stat, I've played with my friends (because I rarely go to solo-PA-levelling), I don't think that's wasting gameplay-time.
Well, no. I haven't played as much, as I only started in the middle of February (right in the middle of the Lightning Carnival).

That said, what I hear is that techs are the most difficult to level right behind bullets. Considering how long it took me to level up all of the shop-bought skills to just 21, I can hardly imagine going from 1->50 with techs. So please forgive me if I don't feel like subjecting myself to that kind of tedium.

[Kimil Adrayne]

After update, WT has nearly the same TP as FT, double the ATP and 20 more levels in skills.

Why exactly, would anyone play FT if WT got 40 attack techs? No one will play FT just for rods access.

40 support sure why not...of course WT on JP can clear WBS2 in 9 minutes, so it's not exactly like the class needs shit.

If this is the case, then fT's need a TP boost too. So WTs with level 40 Attack techs wouldn't effect them. Though, they'd already have 20% more TP plus Rods, so I don't think much of a TP boost would be in order.

The Point of increasing WT's Attack Techs wouldn't be to compete with the fT's, but to allow WT's tech damage to compete with its own melee. Not in every situation, but in situations where enemies are weak to techs so we'd actually do more damage with techs apposed to melee.

[Darki]

Stuff.

40 support doesn't make any sense in WT. And, please. People still play FF when there are two more classes with lvl 40 skills. People still play FG when there are already another two classes with lvl 40 bullets. Why wouldn't people play FT when there were another class with lvl 40 TECHs?

Do you think now, people who play WT do it because any kind of benefit? We play it because WE LIKE. there are plenty of people that doesn't play WT because there are better classes like FT, FF or fG, why would it be any kind of deal that people stopped laying FT because of WT? There will always be FTs because they LIKE being FTs, same than now there are WT because we like being it.

Sorry, but your point has no sense. If you play ONLY for having lvl 40 techs then you could play either WT of FT. If yopu play FT because you like, who forces you to be WT?


Of course that's not what I said... I really wish people would stop setting up straw men like this. Oh, well.

Let's be fair, here. There are also a number of classes that have skills 10 and 20 levels higher than you. You're not honestly going to use that as a justification for a hybrid class having an equivalent level of skills and techs, are you? It just doesn't make sense as an argument.

Sorry sir but you missed the point here. You stated that it would be easier to have more TP than deal with levelling 10 more levels on PA, and I just told you that if a FT can level them, why wouldn't I be able as a WT? It's like saying you prefer to have rank C swords because rank A are too difficult to get. If you want something, work for it.


But, see, this is the problem. Going from 30->31 entails all of that. Maybe that shouldn't be the case?

I know that the difference between level 30 skills and level 40 skills isn't nearly as great as it is for techs, and that's really where the problems lie, not so much with their lack of level 40 techs.

No, that's not a problem. In most of the cases the only real difference between a level 30 and 31 TECH is only of a little more range, or a little more SE or another hit, when a skill from level 20 to 21 gets a whole new combo. Same goes for the bullets, if you care so much about SE or range, then why is possible that there are GTs and PTs with level 40 bullets? Rifles do the EXACTLY same SE and targets, and knockdown than a FG. No fair! LETS ALL LEAVE FG TO BE GT!! Hahahaha no.



Well, no. I haven't played as much, as I only started in the middle of February (right in the middle of the Lightning Carnival).

That said, what I hear is that techs are the most difficult to level right behind bullets. Considering how long it took me to level up all of the shop-bought skills to just 21, I can hardly imagine going from 1->50 with techs. So please forgive me if I don't feel like subjecting myself to that kind of tedium.

Well, Regrants can go from 1 to 30 in less than 6 hours. I've levelled it in True Darkness so fastly that I was amazed. Dam-techs the same, if you use them, they level pretty fast. For bullets, bow or cards level very fast too, and for skills, just take the two whip ones and you'll have them at 30 in less than a week of normal non-PA-levelling gameplay.

I play this game because I enjoy the idea of developing my character. I don't want fo have everything from the start, and as I've worked on my character I feel pretty confident and happy to see it getting better. If you don't want to do, what are you doing playing this game?


If this is the case, then fT's need a TP boost too. So WTs with level 40 Attack techs wouldn't effect them. Though, they'd already have 20% more TP plus Rods, so I don't think much of a TP boost would be in order.

The Point of increasing WT's Attack Techs wouldn't be to compete with the fT's, but to allow WT's tech damage to compete with its own melee. Not in every situation, but in situations where enemies are weak to techs so we'd actually do more damage with techs apposed to melee.

+1

[Ceresa]

blah blah crying shit blah blah

It's not a goddamn case of FG vs GT where one has more ATP, stronger weapons, and higher skill caps versus techs.

If you can't see that a WT with 40 techs would have everything an FT offers and a fuckton more then there's no hope for you.

[Darki]

FT has also higher bullets, higer support, higher rank ranged weapons, higher TP, Rods... etc. If you're a n00btecher that only uses FT with a pallet of rods and doesn't even carry a miserable card (that there are many like that, don't be ashamed), that's not my fault.

Also, as Adrayne said, the problem is not only in WT, it's for all techers and the underpowered techs compared to melee AND WT's melee vs WT's techs. If you can't see that it's not right that a half techer half fighter kills melee resistant monsters better with melee than techs, then REALLY there's no hope for you. And I mean it, seriously.

[Ceresa]

Higher bullets means shit compared to the 800+ ATP gap at high levels between the two types. Higher support levels is around 4-6% more damage wooo. What the fuck does higher range weapons even mean... Marginally higher TP that every FT would sacrifice in a second for 800 ATP and 20 skill levels.

Best WT bow 737 atp vs. Best FT bow 1118 atp. Of course that FT bow is a one per account item and your chances of getting it that high suck. WHICH DOESN'T EVEN MATTER because it still won't close the gap with WT, not even with lvl 30 bullet vs 20 (bows barely improve 20-30 btw), WT is better with bows, not really a surprise for anyone that's played both classes for 5 minutes.

Your class is the only melee/support hybrid, that's its job. Same as the humar before it. Accept it or play something else. The class is great now as it is, that matters a lot more then silly dreams of perfectly balanced tech damage and melee in a class that promises no such thing. And yes, FT needs buffs, the only type in the game that can ask for buffs with a straight face, everything else is doing just fine.

[Darki]

Acrotecher IS also a melee/support hybrid. I don't accept it and I play whatever I want, not what you say. I like my class, and I'd like it to have improvements in the right direction. There are already FOUR out of four, so that's ALL of the techers that are "supposed" to be support. Guntecher: "ultimate ranged support class", Acrotecher: "ultimate support class", Fortetecher: "proficent on both striking and support techs", and now WT MUST be support class just because you say it. Oh, no, sorry. I don't see why is so hard to understand that there can be two classes as striking techers (if we only count expert classes and not Master).

And, another thing is that I enjoy my class, because I like it and I don't give a damn about what others have. I wouldn't be bawwwing about "ZOMG WE'RE LOSING COMRADES!" I'd play WT even if I were the ONLY WT in the game, and it's not like there aren't much running around that aren't MF wannabe. If all you care is that your class is losing players, maybe you're not enjoying the game as it should be. Otherwise, play what you like, be happy and don't care about other people, LIKE WE ALL FCUKING WARTECHER PLAYERS HAVE DONE ALL THIS TIME.

If to get what WT needs, and that's it, same ability with techs than melee, FT must have a bump on it's TP to make you crybabies not to baww about others approaching your e-penis lenght, I don't care at all, it'll be welcome. Even if you don't believe it I'm not stupid and I understand that FT is supposed to be the main techer of the expert classes, but if you wanna learn to read, youl'll notice this thread is about WARTECHERS. I could care less about FT losing players, same than almost nobody cares about WT being basically one of the worst classes to play in all this time. You should worry the most for FT losing players because of MF than WT, though.

Anyways, I've only expressed my oppinion and I've been answering other posts honestly. If you don't like it, don't read my posts.

[Ceresa]

AT is not a melee/support hybrid. It's a support class. Hence the unrivaled level 50 support techs. Something that specializes in a field is not a hybrid.

WT - Advanced type with the abilities of Forces and Hunters.
Uses TECHNICs and striking attacks. Offers strong defense.

FT - An expert TECHNIC user that can use all TECHNICs with unmatched power.
Lacks a strong defense in combat.

MF - An advanced type specializing in TECHNICs.
An expert at TECHNIC based attacks.

Notice how FT mentions power, and MF mentions attacks? Notice how WT just says techs? Well it's got them. Yay. And they suck at attack techs, for the same reasons I've stated repeatedly in this thread. There's no way for WT to go up without fucking. No way for FT to go up without stepping on MF toes. If MF goes up then it's too good and everything else needs buffed again. See how this becomes a stupid shitty spiral of stat-buffing in an easy as hell game?

And no I don't even play a fucking FT, your last paragraph is some useless shit. I DO care about the types having some semblance of balance, which they maintain now.

Or ask for lvl 40 techs and lvl 20 skills, I don't care.

[Dhylec]

Guys, it's a a good topic. We have many good posts & ideas, but don't let your enthusiasm gets carried away with insults & name callings. I hate killing a good thread, but sometimes it's for the best.

[Darki]

Or ask for lvl 40 techs and lvl 20 skills, I don't care.

Should I give a damn about what you care? I'm stating my oppinion same than you do, yours has nothing that makes it better than mine. But just to answer you I'd happily give 20 levels on support for striking techs, not melee because that would simply put the class in the opposite situation, basically a weak AT with more melee weapons and worse support. As I said before, I don't see so hard to believe that there can be another expert class being able to proficently do striking techs.

Believe me, I really care about game balance. That's why I don't se too "balancing" that, from your point of view, there must be four support classes, only one striker, and that the so called "support class" has S rank on better melee weapons hybrid-wise (one handed) and even a melee aspd boost, unlike WT that is supposed to be, from your point of view, the "melee hybrid". I don't see why is so logical that there can be FIVE classes that do average melee damage, FOUR that work well with guns, but when it comes to tech damage, talking about more than ONE is so supposedly retarded. I'm very sorry but your argument it's falling appart.

As I said before, I believe from the start that what is really needed is a bump in TECHNICs overall damage, not only for one class. And I see pretty balanced that there are two expert classes for striking techs. And I see PRETTY balanced than a techer class is able to kill a melee-resistant monster with techs, not melee. If that's illogic for you, that's not my problem.

[Kimil Adrayne]

First thing I'd like to say is cut back on your cussing. It simply makes you sound less credible and intelligent.

If WTs were given lvl 40 Techs and FT were given a higher TP mod (not only to stay above WTs, but to compete with Master Force's higher pa Lvl, casting time and Limit Break), FT would still outclass WT in terms of Tech Damage. You say that FTs would jumpship to WT, inspite of their higher proficiency for Tech damage for WTs higher physical attack? If someone playing fT is concerned with doing melee damage, they shouldn't be a techer. If WT's gained lvl 40 A Techs, you wouldn't see a drop in FTs. Those types of players have already switched to classes like FF and FM.