Whip love

[tadtwisted]

Is it just me or did one of the best weapons in the game (whip) get the shaft? The only decent class that can use them is wartecher but they got a-rank restrictions, s-rank can only be used by fortecher and acrotecher with a lv10 PA cap. They need to give whips to acrofighters so they can rock a slicer, whip and a RCSM.

[Ethateral]

S-rank can only be used by Acrotechers. A-rank is for WT and FT. I personally don't think AF needs whips, since they get S-rank slicers. Whips seem to follow more of the support damage, if you get what I'm going at.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

decent class...wartecher
Oh no you didn't.



Aaaaanyway, whips are quite good on AT, and that is just fine.

[Unit D79]

atleast the diragac has insta kill capacity now. that should make those attacks that hit across the room be a real mob cleaner.

[Magus_84]

Is it just me or did one of the best weapons in the game (whip) get the shaft? The only decent class that can use them is wartecher but they got a-rank restrictions, s-rank can only be used by fortecher and acrotecher with a lv10 PA cap. They need to give whips to acrofighters so they can rock a slicer, whip and a RCSM.

AT gets level 20 melee, and Fortetecher can't use S-rank whips. And whips on AT destroy things with the speed boost. >_>

[pinkace]

wait... the whips PA's are capped on fortetecher at 10 as well... and you are telling me that on AT, the only class that can use S class, it is capped to 10 too? then what the hell is the point!?

[jShazBot]

Whips are kinda kinky..
Just sayin...

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

wait... the whips PA's are capped on fortetecher at 10 as well... and you are telling me that on AT, the only class that can use S class, it is capped to 10 too? then what the hell is the point!?No, OP just has no idea what he's talking about.

[Ethateral]

AT's skill PAs are capped at 20. >_> Goodness.

[tadtwisted]

my bad for some of the mistakes i made on my OG post but still whips are the only weapon that dosent have a PA skill that goes to 40 on any class

[unicorn]

Acrotecher uses whips better than Wartecher with the speed boost alone. Fortetecher should not touch melee at all, the thought shouldn't even cross your mind! Maybe if ST realized they should give FT more ATP (like 300-400 more) then it'll be considerable, since they suck at everything now (even teching).

One thing that should be said about whips, they don't seem to gain a lot of ATP, so giving WT S-rank whips won't really do much if they're just going to use it for damage. AT on the other hand, uses whips to support.

Acrofighters don't need whips because they have Twin Sabers (Cross Hurricane), Twin Claws (Chuei), Twin Daggers (Hishio and Renga), and Knuckles (Ikk Hikk and Bogga Zubba) to kill bosses with. Slicers serve a similar function to whips, but only with range.

[Ethateral]

Just because it doesn't go to 40, doesn't mean it needs to be 40. It's more of a support weapon, in my mind I think. It can induce SEs with the Adacs and such. <3 I'll take level 20 skill with SEs any day + speed boost.

[landman]

I prefer to use whips on wartecher, and I agree they need S ranks.

Maybe Acromaster will use them in its full capacity...

[darthplagis]

any acrofighter that relies on two handed gear to kill a boss is a bad one IMO, and they really dont need whips at any rank C-S. S rank cards/kikami on the other hand would be the mutts nuts, acrofighter should have a ranged mag or a kikami and say a dagger for close range chopping, a slicer for room wiping and a claw for boss/big dude rape. also AF use tech mags in the same way a AT should use whips, the damage is a bonus but the status effects are what they are used for.... but back to topic

acrotecher does with the whip what the whip is SUPPOSED to do, close support to a close AOE putting shock, stun, freeze or even charm (yeah you know you want it :)) on a large group in a short time so you can get in and heal/buff unmolested is what they are all about. damage is an after thought. and the thing with 1 handed weapons is that they only NEED the skills upto 11 to have full effect unlike the 21+ of twin/dual wield melee weapons so lvl 20 is reasonable as the added dmg from extra levels is not what they are made for.

i say again for simplicity whips are for quick group status effects (sleep, shock, stun, freeze, burn, virus, incapacitate and poison).

[Shou]

atleast the diragac has insta kill capacity now. that should make those attacks that hit across the room be a real mob cleaner.

That whip is epic FAIL. the SE doesnt even work unless you are using a normal attack. >_>

Vish Adac is still the best and will probably always be the best. Sonic Splendor might make a close 2nd tho :)

[Hiero_Glyph]

That whip is epic FAIL. the SE doesnt even work unless you are using a normal attack. >_>

Let me guess, you have tested this yourself to verify that it is true?

The number of idiots on this forum is laughable. Do you believe everything that you read? Seriously, the only players that deserve to have opinions are the ones with the facts to support them. You sir, lack any facts.

For the record, the Vish Diragac has incapacitate level 2. It does inflict the SE while using PAs but not quite as often as an Adac will stun. For the best results, spam only the first portion of Danga and do not worry about JA'ing it as damage is not your primary goal. After a few attacks, you should have killed a portion of the enemies so simply switch weapons and finish the remaining ones off.

[Hiero_Glyph]

any acrofighter that relies on two handed gear to kill a boss is a bad one IMO, and they really dont need whips at any rank C-S. S rank cards/kikami on the other hand would be the mutts nuts, acrofighter should have a ranged mag or a kikami and say a dagger for close range chopping, a slicer for room wiping and a claw for boss/big dude rape. also AF use tech mags in the same way a AT should use whips, the damage is a bonus but the status effects are what they are used for.... but back to topic

Two-handed weapons are ideal for bosses as an AF. If you want to use a card that is fine, just swap weapons when the boss goes out of striking range. Sadly the damage of single claws cannot keep pace with knuckles, twin sabers or even twin claws. It should also be noted that bosses cannot be status effected, so using an RCSM against one is fairly pointless (with Mother Brain being one of the exceptions).

[Shou]

I would test it but I'm letting someone borrow my set of adacs. I just went off of what I was told when the diragac came out about the SE not working unless its a normal attack. I still think, however, the adac would come out to be the more efficient whip in the end in both party play and solo play. Ill be sure to test that when I get my gear back and when im bored lol. Oh god I dont even want to really think about soloing as an AT lol

[Hiero_Glyph]

I would test it but I'm letting someone borrow my set of adacs. I just went off of what I was told when the diragac came out about the SE not working unless its a normal attack. I still think, however, the adac would come out to be the more efficient whip in the end in both party play and solo play. Ill be sure to test that when I get my gear back and when im bored lol. Oh god I dont even want to really think about soloing as an AT lol

Curious, but why does not having your Adacs prevent you from testing the SE from Diragacs? I simply went to Scarred Planet and used an inexpensive fire element Diragac against the initial Badira spawn. I purposely used the same element to avoid killing the enemies from damage. The results will speak for themselves.

[Namine]

Whip PAs are fine as they are. My Beast AT can deal up to 1200 with the first part of Vivi Danga just attacked, and up to 2600 with the second part just attacked.(46% to 50% opposite element whip)

Vish Diragac's SE does work while using the PAs, though with level 2 its really only effective on the smallest types of enemies.(badiras, ageetas, etc.) I have yet to see it work against the golmoros.

[Dymalos]

I love being a Melee focused Beast AT. Having a Madoog with Resta on it while maining a saber, dagger or whip is simply awesome. 41 Giresta and Buffs make you into a soloing machine. Aside from support techs, I've pretty much ignored every single attack tech. The 165 1/2 HP Svalti go down in 1 and a half Rising Strikes, or Hikai Shuha-zans. And Kaza-kikami's tear through a Ryugutass' HP like paper. I know it's not quite on par with a Jabroga/Majarra spamming MF or Shotgun wielding GM, but these guys are going to be nerfed in the near future.

The event (specifically Magashi Plan) has made it incredibly easy to synthesize your own 9-11* Whips in bulk with the mats from only a few runs of B or A. As a result I've made 50% Fire and Ice Kusebs, a 50% Dark Adan, a and 50% Light Feara. A properly timed, high element whip PA with some decent ATP behind it can tear through half hp event mobs like nobodies business, SE's don't have time to really matter when up to five S2 mobs die in only one whip PA.

[Darki]

I love to use this weapon on WT, and thankfully with the limit break can be taken to level 40 so here's your higher PA level. It's sad that WTs can't use S ranks anyways, it's a good weapon even being A rank.


S-rank can only be used by Acrotechers. A-rank is for WT and FT. I personally don't think AF needs whips, since they get S-rank slicers. Whips seem to follow more of the support damage, if you get what I'm going at.

I don't see that "support damage" when it does better and faster damage to more monsters than all Gi-techs, and that most of the area skills such as tornado Break, Dus Robado and others. Whips kill extremely fast, even without incapacite, doing 2800+ dmg per hit to all the targets is more than what some other weapons do.

[darthplagis]

Two-handed weapons are ideal for bosses as an AF. If you want to use a card that is fine, just swap weapons when the boss goes out of striking range. Sadly the damage of single claws cannot keep pace with knuckles, twin sabers or even twin claws. It should also be noted that bosses cannot be status effected, so using an RCSM against one is fairly pointless (with Mother Brain being one of the exceptions).

yeah i can see where you are going, but i find that if you are in a group then you are best suited to doing your role and that's fast damage (yeah knuckles are good for this granted). i found that with a newman AF and a tech charge, a graldike and single melee weapon is fine for damage on bosses. the mag shoots off blasts of 4 high damage hits about on par if not bigger than my main weapon attacks sometimes. my friend has a capped newman AT and he out damages fighters with his graldikes LOL

im gonna go grab a spare set of twin DB's and a few of my drill knux and give them a blast with my AF later and see how it goes :)

[Miyoko]

What about us people who hate whips? :( The scatter on Vivi Danga drives me up the wall, blarg.

[Ethateral]

I love to use this weapon on WT, and thankfully with the limit break can be taken to level 40 so here's your higher PA level. It's sad that WTs can't use S ranks anyways, it's a good weapon even being A rank.



I don't see that "support damage" when it does better and faster damage to more monsters than all Gi-techs, and that most of the area skills such as tornado Break, Dus Robado and others. Whips kill extremely fast, even without incapacite, doing 2800+ dmg per hit to all the targets is more than what some other weapons do.

The "limit break", from what I saw, only allows you to add on a few levels to capped PAs.

Support damage, if you read my other post, follows the SEs that whips can inflict. I have yet either to see an AT use a whip PA outside of Grudda on small mobs. (Badira, Ageeta, Ohgomon, etc) They typically have just swung their whips a few times for tags and/or to inflict SEs. Now, this doesn't make it amazing. However, the SEs are pretty handy on higher levels and allow for crowd control.

Yes, whips can be powerful, if geared correctly. Whips can't really be compared to Dus Robado, from what I've seen at least. I'm not getting into that though.

@Dymolas: Don't get used to that half HP. ;o I've seen people while I've been running this event, think they are "da sheet" because they're taking down half HP event monsters in one PA. (Not directing this towards anyone here)

[BIGGIEstyle]

I don't see that "support damage" when it does better and faster damage to more monsters than all Gi-techs, and that most of the area skills such as tornado Break, Dus Robado and others. Whips kill extremely fast, even without incapacite, doing 2800+ dmg per hit to all the targets is more than what some other weapons do.

If you don't understand "support damage" compare whip damage to something that's not (at best) in the middle of the DPS range.

You hit mobs for 2800's using danga's second hit JA'd, which hits 3 times. (8400 dmg)
I hit mobs for 7600 using Jabroga JA'd, which hits twice. (15200 dmg)

That's what's meant by support damage.

Whips are in fact fantastic on an Acrotecher, but if you're playing an AT for dps, you're a bit confused.

[Ethateral]

If you don't understand "support damage" compare whip damage to something that's not (at best) in the middle of the DPS range.

You hit mobs for 2800's using danga's second hit JA'd, which hits 3 times. (8400 dmg)
I hit mobs for 7600 using Jabroga JA'd, which hits twice. (15200 dmg)

That's what's meant by support damage.

Whips are in fact fantastic on an Acrotecher, but if you're playing an AT for dps, you're a bit confused.

This.

Thank you. D:

[Darki]

@BIGGIEstyle: The problem is, y'know, that I never said I was an AT, so maybe you should read my post first, or maybe you're the one confused.

Another problem I see is that you forgot on purpose of the first combo. To do the second JA'd combo, you need to do the first combo (that can be JA'd too), which is 600 (first normal hit), and 4 JA'd hits for 1600 dmg, which is 6400 dmg. That all together is 800 + 6400 + 8400 = 15600 damage that hit more or less the same number of enemies, with the only sidekick that it can actually miss.

All that was calculated on my experience with my non grinded 36% ice Vish Kuseb on my WT, so the damage could be greatly increased with grinds os better percentage. Of course, that damage is on normal monsters, on a De Ragan, for example, it lowers due to it's deffense, but anyways I see many FMs hitting less than 3k with Jabroga on the Event dragon per hit, so that's not much of a deal.

The only disadvantages of Vivi danga that makes Jabroga better it's just the fact that unlike Jabroga, Vivi Danga can miss and you need to be close to hit, so you can be blocked on the middle of the combo.





@Ethateral: If I remember well, with Limit Break you can raise up to ten levels a weapon cap, which means a WT could raise both whip PAs to level 40 cap. Which means the damage could be greatly increased. That, plus the Jabroga nerf, will make things much more balanced between both PAs. Anyways, WT will be the only class that will be able to have whips at that level so I guess I'll give it a try.

For the SE, of course it's something great, but that follows the damage if you're WT. I believe it's better to destroy a crowd of monsters with the correct element whip other than SE'ing them and not doing damage at all. I'm a WT after all. For AT, of course, you're correct, but I don't play one.





@Miyoko: If you don't like the knockback of whips, I guess you don't like the knockback of almost all of melee weapons, as almost every one has a PA that knocks back. :/

[pinkace]

I am still confused....

So no single class can level whip skills above 21... and you all think this is OK?

>_<

[Darki]

I am still confused....

So no single class can level whip skills above 21... and you all think this is OK?

>_<

Well, I play a class that uses skills at level 30 so no, I don't care if there's another class that uses them at higher level. I think it's OK because there are also only 8 weapons whose PAs can be used at level 50 and nobody is crying because they can't level their single handguns to 50 (well, there must be somebody, I guess).

And, finally, with the content update, we will be able to raise PA caps up to 10 levels, so YES, there will be a class that will be able to use whips at level 40: Wartecher. So, what's the problem? There WILL surely be, you only need to wait and just use the limit breaks.

Giving another class like AF whips would only mean something: to take away ANOTHER thing from WT and make us even more useless. I know most of people don't give a damn about it, but you know, it's good to let at least SOMETHING exclusive for us.

[garjian]

well... unless they give a good melee class whips... there no point other than the megid whip...

yes... theyre capable... but theres more powerful weapons amoung the classes that can use it...

Vish diragac, is a very good weapon however... i can generally clear a set of enemies in 1-2 PAs... so id say masing a newman AT say, on buffs, resta and whips... wouldnt be a bad idea...

[Darki]

I can generally clear a mob in 1 PA full combo with my beast WT and a 50% 7* whip. Sorry, but vish diragacs aren't the only useful whips, maybe for an AT, well. And, again, I don't see why there's a need of a "capable" melee class, when WT will use them at level 40 and they will have a huge boost on all stats on the update. If you specifically want AT to use them then ok, but WT will be the best using them from the near future, and from my oppinion that's quite good. FFs have Jabroga, fGs have twin sabers, ATs have slicers... let WT have something, don't you think so?

[Ethateral]

You don't add on 10 levels to your PAs. From the pictures I've seen on the JP Uploader, I've seen skills that are capped normally at 40, be at 42 with that update. Its not 10 levels.

[Darki]

of course, it's 42 with ONE PAlvl+. If you use 5, it's capped 10 levels up. That, or the pics of knuckles and bows at level 50 are a fake, or the info on the main thread is also a fake, or the info of people who plays there is also a fake.

[Dragwind]

Whips are severely under-rated imo. Even a set of 40%+ A rank elemental whips really rack up some good damage on 3-4+ targets without using the knockback of the second PA combo. I've never found the SE on any whip to be more beneficial than the element % damage. Think of it as the WT/AT Jabroga.

[ZeroKamikaze]

of course, it's 42 with ONE PAlvl+. If you use 5, it's capped 10 levels up. That, or the pics of knuckles and bows at level 50 are a fake, or the info on the main thread is also a fake, or the info of people who plays there is also a fake.

Ok, on this point, I have only seen knuckle PAs capped at 42, but thinking about it, it would make more sense to be able to raise bullets or technics ten levels higher. Just remember, this is the internet, things can be faked.

Now, back on topic, you play wartecher correct? You also have the whip PAs at 30 correct? you are probably already doing the most damage as a whip user at this point (just assuming). AF does quick hard damage, while whips are used mainly for;

1) Tagging monsters in a party
2) Inflicting SEs such as freeze
3) Create some breathing room (only applies to low level parties)


That being said, no class needs whips other than the ones that have them. Their damage output is 'ok' but they truly shine for SEs. If you want to do more damage, play a more strength oriented class, because thats the only solution available. That, and you are possibly the only to complain about needing stronger whips or having them on a stronger class, which in some cases might be wishful thinking, but honestly, it isn't gonna happen.

[Cooljames2186]

Is it just me or did one of the best weapons in the game (whip) get the shaft? The only decent class that can use them is wartecher but they got a-rank restrictions, s-rank can only be used by fortecher and acrotecher with a lv10 PA cap. They need to give whips to acrofighters so they can rock a slicer, whip and a RCSM.

I dont know much on the acrofighters...but I would agree its such a great weapon...they should definitely allow the True master of the slave drive (Acrotechers) to have it maxed or at least to 31 mwahahaha...lol...its like the only weapon we have that does uuber damage to selected creatures...I have a vish adac 42% fire...a vish tien 42% dark vish diragac 24% lightning 23% fire...and a vish tien @ ???...im definitely a whipper snapper...lol

[Hiero_Glyph]

Ok, on this point, I have only seen knuckle PAs capped at 42, but thinking about it, it would make more sense to be able to raise bullets or technics ten levels higher. Just remember, this is the internet, things can be faked.

1) Read this thread for info on PALV+: http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=101720&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

2) Why would bullets and technics gain the most by being 10 levels higher? Bullets gain an initial elemental % bonus at each tier (11, 21, 31 and 41) and in some cases a minor attack % bonus as well. Technics often gain a status effect but more importantly gain a large area increase. The tech % gain on technics is fairly linear. Also, support technics gain practically nothing once you hit the next tier. It should also be noted that technics are not included on the PALV+ option currently in Japan.

As you can see from this, the best thing you can do is to take a bullet or technic (if it is ever added to this feature) to the next tier and leave it. Spending any additional PALV+ points is often pointless as the amount gained is very minor compared to the initial bonus you get for hitting that new tier. There are always exceptions where the attack% is more substantial (Laser Cannons get 3% attack per level) but these would be very limited.

3) Just because you have not seen something does not make fake. Yes, the entire Japanese community could be pulling the best PSU prank of all time but with multiple sources confirming this information there is no way that these screens are false.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

What about us people who hate whips? :( The scatter on Vivi Danga drives me up the wall, blarg.
You mean everything isn't dead by the time you finish the combo? If so, then you need either better whips, or a better party.

[pinkace]

Well, I play a class that uses skills at level 30 so no, I don't care if there's another class that uses them at higher level. I think it's OK because there are also only 8 weapons whose PAs can be used at level 50 and nobody is crying because they can't level their single handguns to 50 (well, there must be somebody, I guess).

And, finally, with the content update, we will be able to raise PA caps up to 10 levels, so YES, there will be a class that will be able to use whips at level 40: Wartecher. So, what's the problem? There WILL surely be, you only need to wait and just use the limit breaks.

Giving another class like AF whips would only mean something: to take away ANOTHER thing from WT and make us even more useless. I know most of people don't give a damn about it, but you know, it's good to let at least SOMETHING exclusive for us.

I am making a Wartecher out of my FNewman, and I want to use whips a lot (at least until I make an acrotecher someday), and what I don't understand is why can't the whip master (Acrotecher) go above level 20, and why can't the next best thing (Wartecher) go past level 20?

I am quickly seeing the OP's point; whips got the shaft.

[ShonagarACE]

I am making a Wartecher out of my FNewman, and I want to use whips a lot (at least until I make an acrotecher someday), and what I don't understand is why can't the whip master (Acrotecher) go above level 20, and why can't the next best thing (Wartecher) go past level 20?

I am quickly seeing the OP's point; whips got the shaft.

Wartecher DOES have level 30 skills, as other replies have stated. AcroTECHER is a TECHER, and that's why they have level 20 skills. ;-)

[PACHI]

Is it just me or did one of the best weapons in the game (whip) get the shaft? The only decent class that can use them is wartecher but they got a-rank restrictions, s-rank can only be used by fortecher and acrotecher with a lv10 PA cap. They need to give whips to acrofighters so they can rock a slicer, whip and a RCSM.

I have 46% and 50% (Vish adac) whips of every element for my AT. With lv 50 AT buff. I usually do more damage than anyone in my party win using my whips with enemies that have 3+ hitboxes. The PA move gives me upto 815-830 damage on the first three hits/per box, and 1840-1900 on the last three hits/per box. Thats over 25,000 damege in about 5 seconds with 3 hit boxes. (With boss, it's half the damage:( ). Thats actually a lot of damage; so no, it didnt get the shaft. It just happens to be the most underestimated weapon in the game.

WT gets a rank, but have higher attack than AT. AF with whips would be a little too much. since they can use RCSM at the same time. AF don't have Whips for one reason: AF are the quickest of any class, and tend to use quick weapons. Whips would remove the purpose of a AF due to the lack of speed the weapon has.;-)

Edit:
I am making a Wartecher out of my FNewman, and I want to use whips a lot (at least until I make an acrotecher someday), and what I don't understand is why can't the whip master (Acrotecher) go above level 20, and why can't the next best thing (Wartecher) go past level 20? ... AT doesnt go past 20 because of lvl 50 buffs. WT gets lvl 30...


In the end, its all about balance.

[Randomness]

That whip is epic FAIL. the SE doesnt even work unless you are using a normal attack. >_>

Vish Adac is still the best and will probably always be the best. Sonic Splendor might make a close 2nd tho :)

I'm reserving judgment until we know what level Jellen Vish Promoto has... (And its easier to get with high %s)

Vivi Danga actually does decent damage with the second combo, too, which I can't help but love. (Besides, the second combo is entirely composed of a whipcrack)

[pinkace]

Wartecher DOES have level 30 skills, as other replies have stated. AcroTECHER is a TECHER, and that's why they have level 20 skills. ;-)

and yet it can't use S whips!!!

wouldn't it make more sense to give the class with the S whips the highest cap!? or give the class with the highest PA cap access to the best whips?


:(

[Cooljames2186]

I have 46% and 50% (Vish adac) whips of every element for my AT. With lv 50 AT buff. I usually do more damage than anyone in my party win using my whips with enemies that have 3+ hitboxes. The PA move gives me upto 815-830 damage on the first three hits/per box, and 1840-1900 on the last three hits/per box. Thats over 25,000 damege in about 5 seconds with 3 hit boxes. (With boss, it's half the damage:( ). Thats actually a lot of damage; so no, it didnt get the shaft. It just happens to be the most underestimated weapon in the game.

In the end, its all about balance.


I definitely agree...I love my whips...and they are the best when running missions with little creatures...like annoying jaggos,pannons,goldeens,well you get where im going with this lol

[Cooljames2186]

and yet it can't use S whips!!!

wouldn't it make more sense to give the class with the S whips the highest cap!? or give the class with the highest PA cap access to the best whips?


:(

Life is just aggravating...lol

[Randomness]

S rank whips do not offer anything more really than more choices of SE. Actually, one of the better whip SEs is on the 7* Vish. (Shock, because melee-less enemies are fun)

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if a future update allowed for a rank+ ability (Post-supplement). If Sega lets players raise their PA caps on a weapon, its not a stretch to unlock S ranks of a weapon. (That you already have, mind you)

[PACHI]

and yet it can't use S whips!!!

wouldn't it make more sense to give the class with the S whips the highest cap!? or give the class with the highest PA cap access to the best whips?


:(

It doesn't need S whips. If the game was about making any sense, than the game would need a big overhaul! But in the case of a S whip making sense, AT's strongest weapon is the whip. Giving the weapon to WT would remove Sega's strongest philosophy: exclusivity with balance. WTs don't need S whips. Their Cap at 30 is mainly for their strongest weapons.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I'm reserving judgment until we know what level Jellen Vish Promoto has... (And its easier to get with high %s)

Vivi Danga actually does decent damage with the second combo, too, which I can't help but love. (Besides, the second combo is entirely composed of a whipcrack)

Why would the Promoto's Jellen level matter for an AT? Ever seen a level 41+ Jellen, it makes the whip's range look pathetic by comparison. If anything having a debuff effect on a whip is entirely pointless as you can simply cast a higher level debuff prior to using a whip with a useful status effect (Stun or Incap).

[Hiero_Glyph]

S rank whips do not offer anything more really than more choices of SE. Actually, one of the better whip SEs is on the 7* Vish. (Shock, because melee-less enemies are fun)

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if a future update allowed for a rank+ ability (Post-supplement). If Sega lets players raise their PA caps on a weapon, its not a stretch to unlock S ranks of a weapon. (That you already have, mind you)

So what do you use against enemies that have both melee and technic attacks? For status effects, the Vish Adac's stun is the best one available. The only other whip that has a chance to beat the Adac is the Diragac's incap as a dead enemy is always better than a stunned one. There are situations where a Kuseb would be ideal as frozen enemies cannot be blown away, but typically the Adac is superior.

[Dymalos]

Hey guys, this is an honest question because my conception of high level play is tainted a bit by the half HP mobs in the event. But do standard level 150+ Mobs even survive long enough for a Stat Debuff to seriously matter in an adequetely built party?

[Hiero_Glyph]

Hey guys, this is an honest question because my conception of high level play is tainted a bit by the half HP mobs in the event. But do standard level 150+ Mobs even survive long enough for a Stat Debuff to seriously matter in an adequetely built party?

Nope, even against normal enemies debuffs are pointless. There are always situations where debuffs would be useful but these are few and far between.

[Dymalos]

Nope, even against normal enemies debuffs are pointless. There are always situations where debuffs would be useful but these are few and far between.

Sweet, I'll continue to ignore them on my Beast AT and stick with Whips w/ SE's that actually do something noticeable. I knew I was right to replace my Fire Vish Promoto with a Kuseb and eventually a straight up Vish Deragan.

[Dymalos]

Also to anyone who plays the JP PC/PS2 servers, what SEs do Vish Deraga and Vish Fearac inflict on enemies?

[Shou]

Its in the item database just look. Im hoping to upgrade my set of adacs to 46% and up during Toob GBR :)

[Magus_84]

Also to anyone who plays the JP PC/PS2 servers, what SEs do Vish Deraga and Vish Fearac inflict on enemies?

Burn and Confuse, IIRC.

The only debuff I've found much use for is Zoldeel. That's only on AT, and usually only when soloing. A higher EVP means you get more chances to Just Counter. Which means you get to spam the first hit of Vivi more often. It kills things quite well.

I really wish people on the PC/PS2 side would make more Adacs. I need a set of 50s. :/

[Volcompat321]

i thought deraga was the auto kill.....isnt it? ( i have no idea about whips tho )

nevermind, i looked it up, incapacitate is the kubara one :(

[PACHI]

Hey guys, this is an honest question because my conception of high level play is tainted a bit by the half HP mobs in the event. But do standard level 150+ Mobs even survive long enough for a Stat Debuff to seriously matter in an adequetely built party?

You debuff for the much bigger and tougher enemies like those small boss' (magash) instead of a real boss which you cant debuff.

[Dymalos]

You debuff for the much bigger and tougher enemies like those small boss' (magash) instead of a real boss which you cant debuff.

I suppose... I don't really even know where to start leveling Debuffs. I'll continue to pretend they're totally useless.

[Magus_84]

I suppose... I don't really even know where to start leveling Debuffs. I'll continue to pretend they're totally useless.

Sakura Blast. Or one of the first variants of Lab Recovery. Or the last block of Lightning Beasts.

Do them on C, or any other rank where you can be hit without flinching or (preferably) taking any damage. Find a group of 6 enemies and spam until you're ready to kill yourself.

...then go, use your leveled debuffs and find that you probably wasted the past four hours of your life. ;_;

Unless it's Zoldeel. Then you've only partially wasted it. Fire Sonichi covers Jellen's main function (debuffing tough stuff) in a far more practical manner than Lightning Sonichi attempts to cover Zoldeel's function (enabling MOAR JC). Zalure, at 41, MIGHT get you the same effect as going from level 18 to level 19 on a mechgun, if you're lucky. (I use mechs as they example because they're the fastest attacking weapon in the game. Thus, a tiny damage increase tends to add up faster. Even with that, Zalure sucks.)

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have bothered leveling Jellen or Zalure.

[Volcompat321]

i agree....debuffs can be a waste of time...i leveld mine, and never use em...EVER...not even solo, but in parties its a waste of an attack..(with a good party)- by the time you use the debuffs, and change hands or wep slots, they are dead, so the only good thing i see debuffs as, are getting quick tags, or when solo.

[Ryno]

I'm a support acrotecher and I still have never even used a whip before. 0_0

( i just made my 1,900 post n_n )

[Hiero_Glyph]

Sakura Blast. Or one of the first variants of Lab Recovery. Or the last block of Lightning Beasts.

Do them on C, or any other rank where you can be hit without flinching or (preferably) taking any damage. Find a group of 6 enemies and spam until you're ready to kill yourself.

...then go, use your leveled debuffs and find that you probably wasted the past four hours of your life. ;_;

Unless it's Zoldeel. Then you've only partially wasted it. Fire Sonichi covers Jellen's main function (debuffing tough stuff) in a far more practical manner than Lightning Sonichi attempts to cover Zoldeel's function (enabling MOAR JC). Zalure, at 41, MIGHT get you the same effect as going from level 18 to level 19 on a mechgun, if you're lucky. (I use mechs as they example because they're the fastest attacking weapon in the game. Thus, a tiny damage increase tends to add up faster. Even with that, Zalure sucks.)

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have bothered leveling Jellen or Zalure.

Another easy place to level debuffs is at Scarred Planet. Just start up a C mission, put your back to the enemies and keep casting. Most of the initial spawns have 5-6 mobs so you can spam away until you run out of PP. Once you do, exit the mission (do not abandon) refill your equipment at the PP cube and reenter.

I agree that Zoldeel and Jellen are the only two possibly useful debuffs; Zalure does too little to warrant using. Zoldeel is also great when partying with fighters as you can omit Zoldial from your buffs as to not increase their EVP and simply use Zoldeel to offset your lower ATA. Jellen is great against Bils, Magashi, etc. and may be especially useful once we get Bruce's Dungeon S2 (sometimes I really hate Bruce).

[Deragonite]

Sleeping Warriors has 6 monsters in the 1st room of the 1st block in one of the map variations. Just break the box on the right and a group of badira will spawn along with the initial monsters.

[Dragwind]

I still don't get why players don't understand the concept of not using the second part of a whip combo, especially Vivi Danga. You simply don't use it because it isn't worth it. You do less damage overall, and the knockback is heavily frowned upon in most cases.

[Dymalos]

Well I don't use it in normal play but uh... in the S2 missions in the event a normal sized monster like a Vahra, Deljaban, or what have you will outright die when hit with Vivi Danga parts one and two. Also I'm not sure about your claim that it does less damage over all. The first part may be a bit faster, but the 2nd Part when JA'd for me does over 2,500 x 2 against up to five enemies. Also it completely destroys a Dragon type boss.

[Pyr0qvy]

Whips are kinda kinky..
Just sayin...

I like the bondage:whip:

[ZeroKamikaze]

I still don't get why players don't understand the concept of not using the second part of a whip combo, especially Vivi Danga. You simply don't use it because it isn't worth it. You do less damage overall, and the knockback is heavily frowned upon in most cases.

The answer is simple, people want to try to hit monsters as hard as they can while at the same time making it take longer to kill said monsters. Vivi Danga's first part with a light adac is all that is needed for most monsters, yet most people don't seem to understand.

[Dymalos]

Why would the element of the Adac really matter, all Adacs do stun do they not? I don't seem to understand because you guys are saying some pretty bizarre things.

[Magus_84]

Why would the element of the Adac really matter, all Adacs do stun do they not? I don't seem to understand because you guys are saying some pretty bizarre things.

Element would only matter for damage. You're correct, in that all Adacs do stun.

The second part of Vivi Danga is only useful when you know you can hit and kill with it. But doing so means you'll kill slightly faster. Test it out and get a feel for about how many hits it takes, and how long it takes you to execute it.

Or failing that, just spam the first part, learning to time it to the sweet spot when all the enemies are in range, but can't yet attack.

[ZeroKamikaze]

ok ok I admit I did not know that all adacs stun, forgive my ignorance, but my point still stands. The only enemies that would need the second part of Danga are Svaltus, Gol Dova, and other enemies with multiple hits boxes. In a party, the second part of Danga does more harm than good against small and medium enemies.

[Dragwind]

Element would only matter for damage. You're correct, in that all Adacs do stun.

The second part of Vivi Danga is only useful when you know you can hit and kill with it. But doing so means you'll kill slightly faster. Test it out and get a feel for about how many hits it takes, and how long it takes you to execute it.

Or failing that, just spam the first part, learning to time it to the sweet spot when all the enemies are in range, but can't yet attack.

You got it.

It's not hard, just requires a bit of practice. A higher % element whip in most cases will be more beneficial for killing faster than relying on the whip's SEs, even in the Diragac's case. If you don't want a full set of high % whips, a Diragac is also a decent option.

[Dymalos]

Yeah, that's solid advice and I do practice it. My goal isn't always to get the 2nd combo in. But I'lm definitely going to go for it if it means that there'll be 5 less monsters to worry about.

[Dymalos]

ok ok I admit I did not know that all adacs stun, forgive my ignorance, but my point still stands. The only enemies that would need the second part of Danga are Svaltus, Gol Dova, and other enemies with multiple hits boxes. In a party, the second part of Danga does more harm than good against small and medium enemies.

On Svaltus I prefer to use Rising Strike with a good saber, or a Hikai Shuha-zan with a good dagger. Even with the AT's speed boost, the whip is too slow to get even the first part of Vivi Danga in before the Svaltus whallops you with his Zaluring Tornado Break. Whereas with either the saber or dagger I can reliable execute both parts of the combo with the JA timing.

Vivi Danga is definitely my go to weapon for the Gol Dovas however. Also if anyone didn't catch my advice earlier in the thread. Now is a fantastic time to make your own high % whips. Magashi Plan A and B drop two metric craptons of Cladorians/Slaterian and Mot Walnas/Ebons. Patterns for Vish Feara and Vish Adan are really cheap on player shops, but you'll need to resort to the NPC on Moatoob for Kuseb patterns which despite their steep price, do make 3 whips each. I've been able to score 50%, Fire, Ice, Dark and Light whips just making my own in bulk with Mats from Magashi Plan.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I still don't get why players don't understand the concept of not using the second part of a whip combo, especially Vivi Danga. You simply don't use it because it isn't worth it. You do less damage overall, and the knockback is heavily frowned upon in most cases.
It really depends on the situation. If you are in a decent party, everything that is able to be knocked back will most likely be dead before you finish the combo, so it doesn't really make much of a difference. In other cases, there isn't enough room to knock the enemies around (I'm looking at you, SEED Express). It's mostly the first case of everything being dead.