Guntechers get ripped off with S rank!!!

[Kinji]

I have been a Guntecher since they were first released and I will never change to another class. I normally never had any complaints up until now. Why does Sega refuse to give Guntechers S-rank Cards? It has been bothering me for awhile now. I still think that we can use S-rank Card more then we could use S-rank Shadoog's. Then ( I'm not sure this is true or not) I heard that on the Japenese Servers Sega gave Guntechers and Wartechers A-rank Doublesabers Wtf!! Am I the only one who feels this way?

[Magus_84]

I have been a Guntecher since they were first released and I will never change to another class. I normally never had any complaints up until now. Why does Sega refuse to give Guntechers S-rank Cards? It has been bothering me for awhile now. I still think that we can use S-rank Card more then we could use S-rank Shadoog's. Then ( I'm not sure this is true or not) I heard that on the Japenese Servers Sega gave Guntechers and Wartechers A-rank Doublesabers Wtf!! Am I the only one who feels this way?

Because they seem to think that girly-looking cards (awesome though they may be) are only appropriate for "pure" techers. And AT. >_>

S-rank Shadoogs are awesome if paired with line techs. More useful than S-rank cards would be, actually.

GT and WT do get A-rank Doublesabers with the supplemental update. Probably to encourage more people to use Vivienne.

Rejoice, though. Even with their A-rank Card limit, GT still gets the highest bullet limit for Cards. You can up them to 50 if we ever get the supplemental update.

[Dhylec]

I don't mind see WT with DS, but for GT is very strange. Again, since there is no other option now, I'll take it as it is. Though, I'd hope there's an alternative.

[Alnet]

There might be an AEXP option later that will let you take a limited number of A-rank weapons and make them S-rank for a character class. I can see it being cripplingly expensive, though. For Guntechers, S-rank Cards sounds fantastic. And I'd take S-rank Doublesabers/Twin Sabers on my Wartecher.

Only an idea, though. I wish it would happen.

[Kinji]

I do agree that S-rank Shadoog's are good with line techs, but the thing is I don't use attacking technics with my Guntecher. I'm strictly support when it comes to technics.

[Darki]

There might be an AEXP option later that will let you take a limited number of A-rank weapons and make them S-rank for a character class. I can see it being cripplingly expensive, though. For Guntechers, S-rank Cards sounds fantastic. And I'd take S-rank Doublesabers/Twin Sabers on my Wartecher.

Only an idea, though. I wish it would happen.

I hope this happened. But it seems they're more up to destroy classes like AT giving FTs the abbility to use level 41+ buffs rather than taking away the exclusivity of some S ranks from some classes.

Personally I don't understand why GTs have S rank shadoogs rather than Cards. And now they give them Double Sabers... Is like if they gave axes to FT, seems that someone in ST is a little confused with its job.

Byy the way, I won't use Double Sabers on my WT, because I like them on my fiG and I have my palette made with my favorite weapons. I'd get S rank Cards/Madoogs/Whips with WT, if possible.


I do agree that S-rank Shadoog's are good with line techs, but the thing is I don't use attacking technics with my Guntecher. I'm strictly support when it comes to technics.

Same here. I do use my striking techs on my WT and I play a CAST GT. I like the idea of playing opposites, with my WT being melee/TECHNICs and my GT being bullets/support, so I prefer this way. I use cards mainly on WT because is the best ranged weapon the class can use, but c'mon, levelling card bullets is so easy, at least to 20. I should play cards more with het, btw.

[Magus_84]

I hope this happened. But it seems they're more up to destroy classes like AT giving FTs the abbility to use level 41+ buffs rather than taking away the exclusivity of some S ranks from some classes.


"Destroy" is too harsh a word, I think. Consider that an AT, post-supplement (let's say a human) could have PA caps of 30 whip, 30 dagger, 30 Twin handgun, 30 mechgun, 50 support and 40 in several offensive tech elements.

Congrats, you're a WT with the best buffs in the game, much better stats, a melee speed boost, better attack techs and two generally-more-useful ranged options.

FT gets better buffs, the ability to do the second step of Majarra, 40 bow/card and 50 offensive techs in some elements.

All in all, the AT's still better equipped for any situation (partially due to its much-higher ATP and the melee speed boost), far less fragile and still casts faster.

[The_Brimada]

Well I suppose those s rank shadoogs would have a bit more usefulness come supplemental update if you invest in your dagger and saber a bit.

Oh and as far as I'm concerned, I agree GT should have s rank cards as well.

[panzer_unit]

I had a look at the item database; Kaza Kikami 300 ATP vs Card Regas 272 ATP.

... OH MY GOD YOU'RE MISSING OUT ON 28 ATP?! RANT TIME!!!!1

[Magus_84]

I had a look at the item database; Kaza Kikami 300 ATP vs Card Regas 272 ATP.

... OH MY GOD YOU'RE MISSING OUT ON 28 ATP?! RANT TIME!!!!1

To be fair...it's also a hell of a lot of PP and ATA. But no one cares about those. >_>

I wish they'd make S-rank Tenora RCSMs that fire the 5-bullet rapid-spread from the PS:P version.

[The_Brimada]

Lol I think its moreso people want the pretty bullet effects :p

[Darki]

"Destroy" is too harsh a word, I think. Consider that an AT, post-supplement (let's say a human) could have PA caps of 30 whip, 30 dagger, 30 Twin handgun, 30 mechgun, 50 support and 40 in several offensive tech elements.

I highly doubt as a human you could raise level cap of 5+ weapons/techs, so, let's say you get whips/dagger to 40, techs to 32 and some bullets uncapped. I really hope I'm wrong but I doubt the PA lvl+ for techs goes independant from other weapons, and if I'm mistaken, then, hurray, my WT will be REAlly HAPPY.


Congrats, you're a WT with the best buffs in the game, much better stats, a melee speed boost, better attack techs and two generally-more-useful ranged options.

Congrats, because then you could have been a WT with a little worse buffs (31+), slighty less stats (as WT will be the third class with the best overall stats, after AT, so it's not much of a deal), much better melee options & level (spears, swords, whips, S rank knuckles/twin daggers/twin claws, for example, at level 40), Same attack techs (31+), and sorry if I don't think cards & bows at level 30 are that bad.

I said "destroy" of course as an exageration, but I see that FTs are going to become the "good supporters" of the game while ATs are going to turn into the lolwhippers, since in fact is the true already.

I've seen only TWO ATs that really did good support in all the fucking event (and I play everyday, some randoms when friends are not online), and for the rest, 50% lolwhippers trying to kill a Jarba with a whip, and the other 50% loltechers trying to kill that Jarba or the De Ragan with Nosdiga. And, I've never seen an AT using mechguns. NEVER.

I like this game and I like all classes, but I really hate how most people play some of them. I've never seen an AT playing "all-rounded" ways focusing on support and using all battle typs to improve their way of playing. And that's kinda lame.

---

On the point, the fact is that GTs getting Double sabers is kinda weird. Is not only for the ZOMG GIB 28 ATP, is that GT should be the single-handed gun user and they're getting a fcucing useless melee weapon instead of the weapon they deserve.

[elshagan]

Why can't they gib WT S rank twin guns! Instead of double saber cause then I'd LOOOOOVE it :D S rank Claws n S rank Twin Guns now that would be the perfect PERFECT class for me since I love claws... n love guns XD Oh, well bother...

[Alnet]

I had a look at the item database; Kaza Kikami 300 ATP vs Card Regas 272 ATP.

... OH MY GOD YOU'RE MISSING OUT ON 28 ATP?! RANT TIME!!!!1
Shiny bullets/sfx are the idea, man.

It's like putting a racing stripe on a paper airplane so it'll go faster.

[Magus_84]

I've seen only TWO ATs that really did good support in all the fucking event (and I play everyday, some randoms when friends are not online), and for the rest, 50% lolwhippers trying to kill a Jarba with a whip, and the other 50% loltechers trying to kill that Jarba or the De Ragan with Nosdiga. And, I've never seen an AT using mechguns. NEVER.

---

On the point, the fact is that GTs getting Double sabers is kinda weird. Is not only for the ZOMG GIB 28 ATP, is that GT should be the single-handed gun user and they're getting a fcucing useless melee weapon instead of the weapon they deserve.

Well, my thought about including "40 techs" in there was based on the presumption that the tech PA+ is going to use the same counter space that Masterforces use for Limit Breaks. If it uses the same limits...Twin Handgun to 30, Card to 21, Mechgun to 21, Dagger/whip/twin dagger to 21 and 10 PA+s left over to throw into techs. And if not, take the stuff to 30 that I mentioned, then go nuts with techs.

I think you're just playing with the wrong ATs. I'm on PC/PS2, but I'm not big on public games. I have 3 (currently 4) melee PAs, 18 bullets and 14 techs. Most of my bullets are capped. I use mechs quite often, as they're the best way I've found to lock down a group of small-medium enemies so other players can kill them. I generally use Fire Sonichi+ Hikai Dagger on Jarbas, though. Keeps them from attacking.

Idiots will be idiots regardless of the class they play. Doesn't mean the class itself is bad. Some classes just attract more idiots (OMG GM'S E-peen is BIGGAR! NOES, FG's E-peen is SUPAH BIG!) or attract more of a certain type of idiot (lolAcrowhipper) than others.

While we're playing with prejudices...most of the FTs I know outside of my "circle" of players are less "good supporters" and more "OMG TAKING DAMAGE MEANS I DIE?!! WTF!?! I should be stronger than Masterforceu..../wrist /wrist /wrist WRY DUN I HAVE THE BEST TECHS AND DUAL-WIELDED PSYCHOWANDS?!!" So I wouldn't put a solid bet on them, either. WTs and GTs tend to be better at the whole "support" thing because they have more to prove.

Anyway, back to the main topic. S-Rank Cards make far more sense for GT to get, but I think Double Saber's going to have a lot more practical use.

...ok, so Tornado Dance is going to have a lot more practical use. >_> It's a question of doing something you're already the best at in a slightly better way, or doing something new that's so overpowering that even when you're the worst at it, it's still useful.

[Ethateral]

I'd rather GT have S-rank cards than even get double sabers, imo. It just.. Doesn't seem to fit for that class. It'd just give them a mobility to catch up with everyone else Tarnader Dancing around. S-rank cards seem more practical for a GT.

[Kimil Adrayne]

"Guntechers get ripped off with S rank!!!"

Look at WT's, we have 5.

[Darki]

I think you're just playing with the wrong ATs. I'm on PC/PS2, but I'm not big on public games. I have 3 (currently 4) melee PAs, 18 bullets and 14 techs. Most of my bullets are capped. I use mechs quite often, as they're the best way I've found to lock down a group of small-medium enemies so other players can kill them. I generally use Fire Sonichi+ Hikai Dagger on Jarbas, though. Keeps them from attacking.

Idiots will be idiots regardless of the class they play. Doesn't mean the class itself is bad. Some classes just attract more idiots (OMG GM'S E-peen is BIGGAR! NOES, FG's E-peen is SUPAH BIG!) or attract more of a certain type of idiot (lolAcrowhipper) than others.

While we're playing with prejudices...most of the FTs I know outside of my "circle" of players are less "good supporters" and more "OMG TAKING DAMAGE MEANS I DIE?!! WTF!?! I should be stronger than Masterforceu..../wrist /wrist /wrist WRY DUN I HAVE THE BEST TECHS AND DUAL-WIELDED PSYCHOWANDS?!!" So I wouldn't put a solid bet on them, either. WTs and GTs tend to be better at the whole "support" thing because they have more to prove.

Anyway, back to the main topic. S-Rank Cards make far more sense for GT to get, but I think Double Saber's going to have a lot more practical use.

...ok, so Tornado Dance is going to have a lot more practical use. >_> It's a question of doing something you're already the best at in a slightly better way, or doing something new that's so overpowering that even when you're the worst at it, it's still useful.

Of course I'm not an idiot who says "FMs are trash because of TD". But the problem is that there are so many idiots that choose those classes because they're easy to use, just because you only need to do 2 button hits = win with jabroga/majarra/Tornado dance n00bs, that everytime I met a FM in a party I sweat thinking I'll see monsters flying away thanks to his "funny" way of playing. I've seen even FMs trying to kill Jarbas with Jabroga, please, it's so freaking LAME.

I'm a WT who has 9 skills capped at 30 (Whip/Sword/Twin Daggers), 14 bullets (Card/Bow), support at 30 and all techs are over 21. I don't use the four buffs because I consider WT as an offensive techer, and I'll try to choose this path when customizations come. I LIKE how I play, and I don't really care if I remain like this, BUT the fact is that when we get changes and they're in the wrong way they make me feel really annoyed.

With this, I'm trying to say that yes, Double Sabers may be more useful than cards on GT, but the fact is that we're talking about Gun-Techer. Of course if all classes had Axes + jabroken it would be better than giving bows to FT, or cards to GT, but we should keep a little role playing on the game and try to improve the class in the way it should be, not the "easy fix" that SEGA is going to do. The idea (in my mind) is to give enough reasosn to play ALL classes, and the fact is that now you say here "What I should do to be a good WT/GT" and the main answer will be "go another class".

I'm a little upset because seems that all SEGA does to "fix" some classes are really retarded. Except the recent ones with the custom AEXP, that seems pretty good (seems somebody left the hard drugs in the ST at least for a moment), all "fixes" they have done to WT and GT for me are crap. Giving Double Sabers, and striking techs to 30 to GT, and NOT giving 40 support and S rank cards? C'mon. Giving S rank knuckles and twin claws to WT, and 30 Support, and NOT giving S rank whips, claws and sabers (which would make more sense due to the "hybrid" part), and 40 striking techs? Well, here we go, another lolnurse out of four.

[Sexy_Raine]

If anything Fortegunner is the one who got ripped off in terms of S rank selection. Until Fortegunner is given more, GT doesn't deserve more than 7. Every class has gained more S ranks except FG and FT, but at least FT not getting more makes sense.

Until FG gets fixed, Gunmaster will continue to make it worthless.

[Ruru]

you're all forgetting one important thing. this is SEGAC we're talking sbout. how often does anything they do or have done lately made any real sense to a rationally thinking mind?

[panzer_unit]

I'd rather GT have S-rank cards than even get double sabers, imo. It just.. Doesn't seem to fit for that class.

GunTecher is a hybrid class right? They're supposed to use versatility instead of brute force.
SO IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT EVEN FORTETECHER IS BETTER OFF FOR CLOSE COMBAT.

Look at WarTecher... despite being a fighter/techer hybrid they're good with bullets anyway, thanks to being able to use Cards and Bows, which are basiclly custom-made to be effective "guns" even in the hands of non-gunners. Regardless of where WT actually ends up with regard to other jobs, it is certainly more than the sum of its parts thanks to being mediocre right across the board.

Back to GunTecher... they don't even get SPEARS for melee damage, why? It's like the opposite of WarTecher, a bad gunner, a horrible wizard, and (lacking PA combos or the standard-issue Spear as a melee damage weapon) the worst guy on the team bar none for fighting. IMO it was such a disaster of a job that long-time players are suffering from like Stockholm Syndrome or something where they would rather throw pinwheels and do 10 more damage a hit than finally be able to hold their own against monsters where they had basically no options better than harsh language.

EVERY JOB in offline PSU, AOI, and Portable has access to Double Saber. While it's super-exclusive online (or was before Master types came along) it's a weapon really well-suited to non-melee classes. Giving it to GT finally turns the job into a capable fighter, if not powerful. It has an obnoxiously multi-target/multi-hit normal attack combo, and an incredibly useful single-move PA. It's a crutch for GT to lean on against those bulletproof multi-target enemies that laugh at both guns and basic techniques without needing some huge boost to ATP or PA caps that would totally redefine the class.

[Magus_84]

GT is, I think, the only hybrid in the game that is unable to use a weapon type (spear) that both of its predecessor classes can use. Not counting Masters.

...or Acro-classes, but they seem to have an explicit ban on two-handed weaponry that's not a pair of single-handed somethings.

Ok, so the example's a bit strained. >_>

And FG is getting plenty of love from the supplemental update. With its massive ATP boost (beast FG at 160 or so ends up with about as much ATP as a Fortefighter now) and the third combo of spears (along with getting level 41 Shotgun, Laser and Grenade through PA lvl+), it will be able to kill quite well.

GM'll still probably outdo it in pure speed, but FG will do better in any case where it can kill in a shot or less. And with the ATP boost, situations like that will pop up more and more. The boosts to Daggas, Robado and Hikai will help too.

As for Sega's balancing of classes, they've always been utterly horrible at looking at what people do and don't use in actual in-game play and working around that. It took them from v2 to Blue Burst to realize that Slicers and Mechguns generally walked all over everything else in terms of consistently-applicable damage, and their only fix for that was a few enemies in a few levels that were resistant to bullets.

The supplemental seems the first thing where they're actually paying attention to in-game mechanics and not half-assed "flavor" changes that they haven't even remained consistent with in the first place.

Again, why I'm fanboying over the changes the supplemental update brings: It gives the ability to overcome honest mechanical game imbalances (sorta) while also allowing people to take a character and tweak its "theme" to be whatever they feel it "should" be. Like your "WT as offensive techer" thing, or the "only using Doublesabers on Fi".

Without screwing over people who want to make a class better able to do something it's disproportionately horrid at. The "everyone can use Double Sabers" thing from PS:P seems like a long-needed incursion of common sense into the realm of "OMG OUR MELEE/CASTER HYBRIDS ARE THE MOST DURABLE NON-FORTE IN A GAME WHERE DURABILITY IS USELESS DUE TO OUR STAT SETUP, THEY DUN NEED ANYTHING ELSE".

Now they just need to give WT Rods. The QQs would be delicious.

[Ceresa]

GunTecher is a hybrid class right? They're supposed to use versatility instead of brute force.
SO IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT EVEN FORTETECHER IS BETTER OFF FOR CLOSE COMBAT.


Seriously what the hell?

You've made some pretty good posts before but this is just insane, do you really depend on spears that much?

-GT has nearly double the base atp of FT
-Muktrand is 675, Buccaneer is 600ish, GRM9☆Dagger is 400ish: Weapon ATP is damn close...
-Majarra is 6 hits at 155%, Rising Strike 4 at 200%, Hikai -8- at 170%: ...So is skill ATP

Not only is FT inferior in melee, GT has very little need at all for spears (or double sabers)...

Must be some Arika in the water supply, go get some Gatorade. Glacier Freeze is excellent.

[Aries2384]

I personally like guntechers, but your complaints are annoying. Why are Guntechers the only type that gets S rank Crossbows?! So don't act liek Gt's are getting the shaft. They do have some things going for 'em. And its a mighty fun type to play. But S rank cards would be alittle much. Go use crossbows if you're so ultimately obsessed with the shiny-gold S rank, delusion of grandeur.

Also, on the whole double sabers being given to Guntechers... Its BULLSHIT. Take the name "GUN TECHER". Why do they need a melee perk? Double sabers are retarded and it just gives more people the chance to spam Tornado Prance. If y ou wanna do damage with melee attacks and use ranged stuff.. go be a Fighgunner or a Fortegunner. Seriously. You people are going to keep whining until all the types are the same.

Damned annoying children. I saw Guntecher is pretty good the way it is. You CAN deal damage with that type if you lvl your bullets and techs. Its not a Damage dealing based job. If you want that, do something else. Sheesh.

[panzer_unit]

Seriously what the hell?

You've made some pretty good posts before but this is just insane, do you really depend on spears that much?

-GT has nearly double the base atp of FT
-Muktrand is 675, Buccaneer is 600ish, GRM9☆Dagger is 400ish: Weapon ATP is damn close...
-Majarra is 6 hits at 155%, Rising Strike 4 at 200%, Hikai -8- at 170%: ...So is skill ATP

Not only is FT inferior in melee, GT has very little need at all for spears (or double sabers)...

Must be some Arika in the water supply, go get some Gatorade. Glacier Freeze is excellent.

Before it got buffed GT ATP was closer to 50% better than FT than double. Spears had that nice high ATP and hit 2 targets per normal attack. Twin Daggers hit 2/2/3 times on their attack combo and had an 8-hit PA move and a 6-hit move with launch before most of those skills you're talking about came out. That covers PSU. FT was a better fighter.

With AotI ForteTecher picked up access to Whips which blow everything else away for potential melee damage output on bosses and mobs of enemies.

[Darki]

GunTecher is a hybrid class right? They're supposed to use versatility instead of brute force.
SO IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT EVEN FORTETECHER IS BETTER OFF FOR CLOSE COMBAT.

Look at WarTecher... despite being a fighter/techer hybrid they're good with bullets anyway, thanks to being able to use Cards and Bows, which are basiclly custom-made to be effective "guns" even in the hands of non-gunners. Regardless of where WT actually ends up with regard to other jobs, it is certainly more than the sum of its parts thanks to being mediocre right across the board.

Back to GunTecher... they don't even get SPEARS for melee damage, why? It's like the opposite of WarTecher, a bad gunner, a horrible wizard, and (lacking PA combos or the standard-issue Spear as a melee damage weapon) the worst guy on the team bar none for fighting. IMO it was such a disaster of a job that long-time players are suffering from like Stockholm Syndrome or something where they would rather throw pinwheels and do 10 more damage a hit than finally be able to hold their own against monsters where they had basically no options better than harsh language.

EVERY JOB in offline PSU, AOI, and Portable has access to Double Saber. While it's super-exclusive online (or was before Master types came along) it's a weapon really well-suited to non-melee classes. Giving it to GT finally turns the job into a capable fighter, if not powerful. It has an obnoxiously multi-target/multi-hit normal attack combo, and an incredibly useful single-move PA. It's a crutch for GT to lean on against those bulletproof multi-target enemies that laugh at both guns and basic techniques without needing some huge boost to ATP or PA caps that would totally redefine the class.

Please, stop with that because this is a clear example of the crap fixes I was talking in my previous post. Guntecher is a support/gunner class; giving melee to this class is basically giving the option to n00bs to turn this class into a crap fighter. If you don’t know how to do your work in this class, go back to n00bfighter to do melee with. To really FIX the class, there’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with giving then melee, rather than powering up their ranged/TECH abilities, WHAT THE CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO BE. I don’t wanna play a game where everybody swings a blade like if there wasn’t another way to play.



I personally like guntechers, but your complaints are annoying. Why are Guntechers the only type that gets S rank Crossbows?! So don't act liek Gt's are getting the shaft. They do have some things going for 'em. And its a mighty fun type to play. But S rank cards would be alittle much. Go use crossbows if you're so ultimately obsessed with the shiny-gold S rank, delusion of grandeur.

Excuse me? With the exception of FM, that it’s on a different category, FiG is the ONLY class (for now) which is able to use Double Sabers, and when this update comes it will be the only class using S rank Double Sabers (and I don’t like them so instead of giving it to other hybrids you could simply put it inside your lower anatomy, if you ask me).

Also, this class has EIGHT S rank weapons, so it seems it’s you the only double S-rank wielding crybaby that wants that. Giving S rank cards to Guntecher is basically the LOGIC option, while giving ANOTHER S rank to FiG is basically giving more candy to n00bs.

[Magus_84]

Damned annoying children. I saw Guntecher is pretty good the way it is. You CAN deal damage with that type if you lvl your bullets and techs. Its not a Damage dealing based job. If you want that, do something else. Sheesh.

I speak as someone who was a GT main for the first year and half of playing time. You "can" deal damage with leveled bullets and techs, but you're always going to pale in comparison to any class that has even decent multi-target ability with guns or melee.

I have all my shotguns at 41+ (except for Banga, it's at 39). Even with an LKK, GT's lowish ATP makes double-shotting large mobs rather impractical. The only two types that are worse-off are FT and MF. MF has had that complaint since they were introduced, and it's being addressed with Limit Break. FT will at least sorta be able to make use of their superior melee weapon selection (yes, Whip/Spear/Twin Dagger/Dagger/Saber is superior, even with lol ATP) once they can raise their PA cap to 20. ATP+s would help there too, as whips tend to utterly destroy large things even if you don't have a lot of ATP to fuel them. And barring that, they still get Hishou. When you're capped at level 10 for your striking, Hishou is at least safer than Rising Strike, if not much faster.

Saying GT "it's not a damage dealing based job" is completely irrelevant when probably the least "Damage dealing based job" (Acrotecher, the 'lolnurse SUPPORT ONRY' class) can outdo it on anything larger than your character. Quite easily, I might add. And isn't much slower on smaller stuff.

That's the reason I ended up going AT in the first place. I got tired of cleaning house on small and medium trash, then running into a large enemy and either: spamming burn traps and running around trying to double-shot, attempting to using Rising Strike and getting knocked on my ass or sitting and plinking away with a rifle. "Sitting and plinking away with a RSCM and Diga/Nosdiga/Foie" had about the same effect as using a rifle, except when stuff would get away from the flinch and get an attack in.

As for "FT being a better fighter than GT"...pre-supplemental, it was a 116% ATP mod vs a 70% ATP mod. FT's better buffs knock that to a difference of around 42% ATP. But they get whips (which hit more targets than sabers) and twin daggers (again, Hishou's a little safer than Rising). I'd still probably give it to them.

[Magus_84]

Please, stop with that because this is a clear example of the crap fixes I was talking in my previous post. Guntecher is a support/gunner class; giving melee to this class is basically giving the option to n00bs to turn this class into a crap fighter. If you don’t know how to do your work in this class, go back to n00bfighter to do melee with. To really FIX the class, there’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with giving then melee, rather than powering up their ranged/TECH abilities, WHAT THE CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO BE. I don’t wanna play a game where everybody swings a blade like if there wasn’t another way to play.






So basically...you don't like Fi, you either hate or ignore the existence of Masters, you have an irrational hatred of Doublesabers and you think "melee = nub".

To give GT a "good" multi-target option, they have a few choices, if we're adhering to your interpretation of Sega's "roles" for each class, which I would vote for being entirely invalid due to how much they've changed them:

-Grenade Launchers. FG and PT would baaaw like no tomorrow.
-Give them higher ATP, 50 bullets and let them Shotgun everything like a good little Gunmaster
-Give them something akin to Limit Break. MFs would riot, and FTs would write bad poetry and emo.
-Fix the balance of tech damage vs gun damage and melee.

They're doing two, they'd never do 1 or 3. They've proven that with their current level of ability/wherewithal, 4 is impossible.

So...they could either step on the toes of 2-4 classes, do something impossible, or do something that they're already doing (2). However! They're also taking another step that's optional, and giving them a lesser ability of something that only two classes can do (but not taking away the e-peening shininess of an "exclusive" S-rank).


-Raise their melee cap to match the previous "main gunner" type, FG.
-Give them a weapon type that kills big things well, while still remaining usable with a 20 cap. It'd be either Knuckle or Double Saber for this one.

They picked Double Saber because they're bringing out a shitton of new non-S-Rank ones with the update, and they wanted to give people a reason to use them.

ST went with the easier option on this. I don't see how that's "noob encouraging", and it's not going to kill Fighgunner to have someone be far less adept at something they do, after they've made them far more adept at something (they can get 40 bullets and got two of GT's formerly-exclusive S-ranks).

If you can come up with an easier solution (Note: "Deal with it" or "Lern2play" is not a "solution". It's a meaningless platitude to try and make the poster feel smart. ) to deal with large, multi-target enemies that are frequently bullet-resistant in a game where "support classes" are only an abstract on paper and even the friendly neighborhood "nurse" can outdo one of the "attacking" hybrids, I'm all ears.

I just haven't been able to come up with one that doesn't either incite more class fanboy RAEG or involve a major rebalance of the base mechanics of the game.

And...seriously. All the n00b fighters are still going to flock to Fighgunner, Fortefighter, Fighmaster or Wartecher. "Puny guy with guns and spells that can occasionally hold a sword the right way" is pretty far down the melee stereotype list after, respectively, "OMG DANTE", "OMG BIG NUMBARZ", "OMG HUEG SWORD LIEK CLOUD/SEPHIROTH FAST" and "OMG MAGEBLADE NEI MELEE/CASTAR".

Giving GT Double Sabers won't change that.

[Darki]

Are you saying that you don't have enough multi-target options with around 30 TECHs (let's forget about Foie/Diga), Laser, Shotgun, Crossbow and EVEN shadoogs S? C'mon.

First of all, Guntecher never was meant as a mass killer class. Guntecher is a Support class, and due to it's nature, and being an hybrid, it's of course worse damage dealer than other gunners. You can have a point if you want better damage on it, but please. I'd really understand if they got Grenade launchers, but Double Sabers? Again, PLEASE. The fact that AT is br0ken doesn't mean "let's make GT br0ken too", it should mean "let's fix AT", something that, sadly, ST won't do, as I suppose.

Second, Damage to bullet-resistant monsters? Lol? For me that's pretty right. The problem is the opposite, that melee usually outdamages melee-resistant monsters because it's really br0ken. That's not a solution.

The REAL solution, is, of course as you said, to rebalance damage between the 3 fighting styles. If you say is impossible, I say it's just that they don't want to. You can come with crappish solutions like enhancing GT's melee, but that's a CRAPPISH solution, even if it's the only solution they give.

Not doing it doesn't mean is not the good solution. In a wonderful world where PSU was well-balanced and people wouldn't use GT or WT as the deffinition of "useless", GT shouldn't need crappy melee weapons to kill, WT shouldn't need support to be an useful class, FF wouldn't be ablee to kill a Polavohra with melee faster than my WT with techs, and a newman FT would outdamage in a ridiculously br0ken way a newman FF. Note that none of this happens, and all of this makes sense, at least for me. Giving a GUN-TECHER a melee weapon to make it more useful, that doesn't come into my definition of "making sense". Maybe in yours does.

And I don't hate FiGs neither Double Sabers, but I hate most FiGs double saber users in the game because they tend to be really n00bs, don't take me wrong, I play a FiG and I use Double Sabers and I'm happy with it. Excuse me if I believe is not to difficult to choose the correct situation to use Tornado Dance and I don't send badiras, Golmoros, Vahras and Koltovas flying non stop in the event mission, and I don't think it's difficult to believe a gun will kill a jarba faster than a Sword. Because a lot of people seems to find this a little difficult to believe. And I don't ignore the existence of masters, I just say that among the EXPERT classes, there's a situation, as the MASTER classes are in a different tier. it's like if you baww me because Rangers can't use laser cannons when the other ranger classes do. Lolno.

[Magus_84]

I meant "multi-target" as in "hits multiple hitboxes on the same creature with a single bullet". So yes to Shotgun, no to any tech, no to Crossbow or Shadoog.

I'm using Grenades as my prototype of what a multi-target gun would be in that case. Something that becomes dramatically more effective the more targets you have. Or Shotgun...which with the ATP boost GT's getting, will be a much more viable option compared to other classes. Of course, they could always just enable multi-targetting on Gi/Ra-techs...but that'd be "too broken", apparently.

I think the real reason for the Double Sabers going to WT/GT is more the "they're adding new ones" and not "it'll help give GT a good melee option". They're trying to get more people to use the stuff they're adding, as FM can't and Fi has shinier options.

I'm just taking what they're adding and making the best of it. Ideally, yes. The system would be fixed, and the damage types would be comparable in use. Realistically, that won't happen any time this decade, so I'm working with what I've got. Adding Double Sabers is the least-disruptive of the options I listed, at least if I'm looking at it the way I think they are. Especially because it can be handwaved away as either "mimicking PS:P" or "making use of the new shinies".

And AT actually isn't that "broken". It doesn't have all that much to work with. It just uses what it has very well: meaning it has decent ATP, fast melee and a speed boost. There's a very narrow margin there between "really good" and "utter trash for anything other than buffing", because their PA caps are so low. Taking away the speed boost would make them worse than pre-AoI WT. Lowering their melee cap to 10 might work, but then the speed boost (and the entire conceit of an "Acro" class) is kinda gone.

Lowering ATP would work, but they're not exactly a "OMG MASS KILL" class. So no one's really clamoring for it. And if they do, there's always human stat boost and Diragac. >_>

[Darki]

To make people use new Double Sabers, they could just simply add the sabers to WT and give guns to GT. I personally don't wanna use double sabers on WT because I play already with the weapon types I like and I don't want to share the PAS between two characters, but anyways, I'm not saying I HATE them and that I don't wanna see them in mah clazz. I just say that for WT there are much better options than double sabers, like increasing some single handed weapons to S ranks, and for GT, giving S rank cards.

And, as far as I remember, Nosdiga, Cards and Xbows do hit multiple hitboxes on a single enemy, A rank shadoogs hit multiple shots to a single enemy (even fire sonichi does if you're closer). But here you come to the main problem with techs, as I said the solution in that case would be adding multi-hitbox ability to techs, not gibing a melee weapon to the least class that in theory is made for it. :/ I do MUCH damage with my cards, and I have 20 levels less than a GT, and I kill enemies like Howzer in less than 4 minutes with it. Shotguns and Xbows can do their job in bigger mobs, but is same than with other techers, there are no other options to multi hit boxes other than Nosdiga.

[Magus_84]

And, as far as I remember, Nosdiga, Cards and Xbows do hit multiple hitboxes on a single enemy, A rank shadoogs hit multiple shots to a single enemy (even fire sonichi does if you're closer). But here you come to the main problem with techs, as I said the solution in that case would be adding multi-hitbox ability to techs, not gibing a melee weapon to the least class that in theory is made for it. :/ I do MUCH damage with my cards, and I have 20 levels less than a GT, and I kill enemies like Howzer in less than 4 minutes with it. Shotguns and Xbows can do their job in bigger mobs, but is same than with other techers, there are no other options to multi hit boxes other than Nosdiga.

The following assumes that there will be no "nerfs" to any of the more powerful classes, there will be no massive rebalance of the damage types, and enemies aren't going to get massively stronger. Meaning that the fast classes (read: everything but GT/FT/MF) are going to own multi-target big stuff, even the melee-resistant ones, faster than someone using something they are "weak" to. Basically, the state of the game as-is, pre-supplemental update.

For the examples you cited, I meant more in the way of "one bullet, multiple boxes". Like a shotgun's splash damage. The only reason it doesn't work well for GT (and yet does on GM) is due to GT's glaring lack of base ATP and modified ATP (GM gets level 50 bullets with higher ATP and element). Of course, they're addressing that with the update anyway.

You fire a Card, you'll hit one enemy three times. You may hit once on each hitbox, or three on one hitbox. Same with Nosdiga and RCSMS. It's their relatively low base damage combined with a rather slow rate of fire that kills them in damage output.

Shotguns are about as slow, but can rack up at least double the hits. You fire a level 1-10 shotgun at an enemy (same number of bullets as a card/crossbow), you'll hit between 3 and 6 times. That's what I'm talking about when I mean "multi-target". And it's that level of ATP multiplication you "need" to start catching GT up to the other classes.

If my FT were comparably leveled...I'd want to compare GT with a 40 shotgun and LKK to a FT with a 50% opposite element whip, level 10 Vivi and LKK. Each under their own buffs, against a large, multi-target, bullet-resistant (as most of these are) enemy.

If GT's faster, I wouldn't put bets on it being considerably faster.

[Dymalos]

I think Xbows and Mechguns out-perform Cards in DPS. I don't really use them as a GT because of that. But I definitely do use em on the same toon when I play as AT (also capped) or AF (working on it). Oddly enough my AF ATP at type level 6 is the same as my AT ATP at type level 20 and my Mira-Kikami's out damage the heck out of my Kaza-kikami's. I guess the extra bullet levels as an AF goes a long way towards making up that measly 28 att gap heh.


The following assumes that there will be no "nerfs" to any of the more powerful classes, there will be no massive rebalance of the damage types, and enemies aren't going to get massively stronger. Meaning that the fast classes (read: everything but GT/FT/MF) are going to own multi-target big stuff, even the melee-resistant ones, faster than someone using something they are "weak" to. Basically, the state of the game as-is, pre-supplemental update.

For the examples you cited, I meant more in the way of "one bullet, multiple boxes". Like a shotgun's splash damage. The only reason it doesn't work well for GT (and yet does on GM) is due to GT's glaring lack of base ATP and modified ATP (GM gets level 50 bullets with higher ATP and element). Of course, they're addressing that with the update anyway.

You fire a Card, you'll hit one enemy three times. You may hit once on each hitbox, or three on one hitbox. Same with Nosdiga and RCSMS. It's their relatively low base damage combined with a rather slow rate of fire that kills them in damage output.

Shotguns are about as slow, but can rack up at least double the hits. You fire a level 1-10 shotgun at an enemy (same number of bullets as a card/crossbow), you'll hit between 3 and 6 times. That's what I'm talking about when I mean "multi-target". And it's that level of ATP multiplication you "need" to start catching GT up to the other classes.

If my FT were comparably leveled...I'd want to compare GT with a 40 shotgun and LKK to a FT with a 50% opposite element whip, level 10 Vivi and LKK. Each under their own buffs, against a large, multi-target, bullet-resistant (as most of these are) enemy.

If GT's faster, I wouldn't put bets on it being considerably faster.

I can tell you that I can kill everything much faster as an AT than I can as a GT on the same toon, and while my 50% whips with lvl 20 Vivi Danga may help I could still do it (albeit slightly less) faster using only a Blackheart or a Deva-zashi with their respective P.A.'s.

[unicorn]

All hybrids are always ripped off something. >_>

First off, GT needs a purpose. Originally, it was meant to be Support/Range, but Wartecher and Fortetecher always had better support. Then they got buffed, and got S-rank RCSM and higher Support than WT. But why did they get S-rank RCSM when they were the WORST offensive techers (behind AT/WT/FT). So they buff their Attack techs (lvl 30 and higher TP mod), but WTs were upset since they were now the worst techers (and still are).

Supplemental update comes along. Hmmm. Lets give WT MORE TP than GT (who has the S-rank RCSMs). And they can both use offensive and support techs to 31+ (with Techlv+), but WT now becomes superior with attack techs again. Oh and GT now falls behind AT/WT/FT/MF.

I never understood why GT recieved S-rank TCSMs when they are always destined to be the worst offensive techers. AT makes better use of them, and you don't see that many ATs running around with them do you?

[hiraisho]

Originally, it was meant to be Support/Range, but Wartecher and Fortetecher always had better support.

Wrong. for quite a while wartecher was tied with Force for having the worst support levels in the game, 20. Guntecher has always had 30 support and used to have lv 20 attack techs. I remember back then no one cared for my buff because they could just get the same effect out of the item buffs. Then guntechers got their attack techs raised to 30 and wartechers support raised to 30 making both have the same level techs.

to the topic, while S rank cards would be nice I don't think they are absolutely necessary. But I also see no problem with giving it to guntechers as well.

Honestly in my opinion if anyone could use another S rank, it would be Fortegunner and Wartecher.

[Kimil Adrayne]

Wrong. for quite a while wartecher was tied with Force for having the worst support levels in the game, 20. Guntecher has always had 30 support and used to have lv 20 attack techs. I remember back then no one cared for my buff because they could just get the same effect out of the item buffs. Then guntechers got their attack techs raised to 30 and wartechers support raised to 30 making both have the same level techs.

to the topic, while S rank cards would be nice I don't think they are absolutely necessary. But I also see no problem with giving it to guntechers as well.

Honestly in my opinion if anyone could use another S rank, it would be Fortegunner and Wartecher.

Guntecher hasn't always had lvl 30 support techs... Pre-AoI Guntechers had lvl 10 support, Wartechers had lvl 20.

Also... I there's no way either of those classes should get S rank Cards. Its a techer's ranged sidearm which rule's out fG, and Wartechers are a Melee/Tech hybrid, exactly opposing ranged if the three types were compared on a spectrum.

[DreXxiN]

You know, I originally thought the whole Double Saber thing for GT's was a bit silly..until I realised maining GT on my human would make him EXACTLY like my RAmar...<3. (Could use techs slightly, primarily ranged, and had double saber access for some reason.)

So I'm actually very happy with the change, and it's nice that GT will get something for the bullet/tech resistant multi-target mobs.

[Ethateral]

And, as far as I remember, Nosdiga, Cards and Xbows do hit multiple hitboxes on a single enemy, A rank shadoogs hit multiple shots to a single enemy (even fire sonichi does if you're closer). But here you come to the main problem with techs, as I said the solution in that case would be adding multi-hitbox ability to techs, not gibing a melee weapon to the least class that in theory is made for it. :/ I do MUCH damage with my cards, and I have 20 levels less than a GT, and I kill enemies like Howzer in less than 4 minutes with it. Shotguns and Xbows can do their job in bigger mobs, but is same than with other techers, there are no other options to multi hit boxes other than Nosdiga.
Nosdiga doesn't hit multiple hit boxes. It hits a single hit box up to 3 times.

I disagree with giving Double Sabers to GT, as it's played as a support class and not a "OMGZ UBAR BIG NUMBARZ!!!" class. They'll have, what, one two-handed melee weapon when the supplementary update comes? I see no purpose in it. Only thing I can see it being use for, is people wanting to even more spam Tarnader Dance. ._.


Also... I there's no way either of those classes should get S rank Cards. Its a techer's ranged sidearm which rule's out fG, and Wartechers are a Melee/Tech hybrid, exactly opposing ranged if the three types were compared on a spectrum.
Saying Cards are a techer weapon, can be applied to either classes. AT is a mix everything, minus two-handed weaponry. Yet, they get S-rank Cards. Why would it not work for GT/WT?

[Darki]

I think that meant WT and FG should have more S ranks.

I've said it before, but since the release of Acro classes, the hybrids seem out of their place. I mean:

Hybrids: as they're meant to use two ways of fighting, if you see them in the origin, basically they should be the "one-handed" users, opposing the Forte classes, being the "2-handed" users. To put an example, a WT is the Saber+Madoog user, a GT is the Wand+Handgun uer, and FiG is the Saber+Handgun user. All of them also have "some" use on 2-handed weapons, like GT with Bows & madoog/wand combo, WT with Twin Daggers & madoog/wand combo, and FiG with Double Sabers & Twin Handgun. If we take on the "role" of each class, WT would be the "full offensive" techer, with good melee options but proficent with offensive techs; GT would be the "support gunner" using it's support to help the party and relying on guns to do it's damage, and FiG would be the light fighter relying on strong melee and guns as a sidehelp.

But then, Acro classes came, and they got all messed up with the hybrids:

AT, the support ONRY class, with better 1-hand melee & tech weapon options than WT, that it's supposed to be the hunter/force hybrid. WT got messed up. Also, as there are FF and FT somewhere there, their role got pwn3d. GT's role got pwn3d in the moment AT got better support than GT, and both classes (AF and AT) got between them almost same S rank 1-hand gun selection and MORE ATP. FiG didn't got as killed as the other two hybrids, BUT, basically a FiG can use same weapons than an AF and even more, so unless you wanna be a TD+Majarra nerd, you'd better pick AF.

And, to dig deeper the tomb, they keep giving weird S ranks and weapons to the hybrids. WT got Twin claws and Knuckles, and they got Swords before. I'm happy with the Swords, but I really think something's wrong by getting so many 2 handed S ranks, basically is like if they want us to be the S rank twin-weapon users, and completely nerf the tech part. On WT it would make much more sense to give all single handed melee/tech weapons in S rank, and after that, if you want, gib knuckles, or daggers, whatever. Same with Guntecher, they give now Double sabers when there's a nice weapon called Card which makes much more sense for the job, same than, for example, madoogs, in S rank.

In the other hand, when AT "in theory" is the SUPPORT ONRY class, they should have originally S rank tech weapons (and they have), but basically they got better single handed weapon selection than the classes that are suppose to KILL with them.

In my oppinion, this game could work 100% perfectly without Acro classes, and I've always seen them as "promotional classes" for AotI. I'm not saying I hate them, just that they made most of the hybrids completely useless, instead of trying to complement them. and ST keep doing weird changes to them, I highly doubt there's a really thinking brain behind them, and I believe a good number of us game freaks have way better ideas than them, but what can we do. Sit and watch how they play trying to develop a "good game" and laught.

[LordRenvolt]

wait, what is all this hate towards acrotecher. i luv that class, actually i think theyre underpowered. i would really like if their bullet cap was raised to 30 instead of 20. i dont really care for the meelee cap. the lvl 50 buffs make up the difference in atp. ...

anyways yeah, giving double sabers to guntechers doesnt make sense they would've been better of getting the S rank cards.

[Darki]

I don't see AT underpowered when they're supposed to be the support class... In fact you should say thanks for being able to kill things with relative ease. In most MMOs support classes tend to be the leech'd ones who can't kill anything, and here it seems all techers are also support (that's why I don't understand what's the deal with WT being an offensive techer, like if there weren't enough supporters already).

[Dymalos]

wait, what is all this hate towards acrotecher. i luv that class, actually i think theyre underpowered. i would really like if their bullet cap was raised to 30 instead of 20. i dont really care for the meelee cap. the lvl 50 buffs make up the difference in atp. ...

anyways yeah, giving double sabers to guntechers doesnt make sense they would've been better of getting the S rank cards.

I have to disagree with you on your opinion about AT's power level. I think they're one of the best types in terms of damage, behind FM/GM/AF, maybe on par or a little behind ForteGunner. Alot of people tend to play AT and emphasize Attack Techs, when really they're much better at Melee despite their low PA cap.

[unicorn]

Wrong. for quite a while wartecher was tied with Force for having the worst support levels in the game, 20. Guntecher has always had 30 support and used to have lv 20 attack techs. I remember back then no one cared for my buff because they could just get the same effect out of the item buffs. Then guntechers got their attack techs raised to 30 and wartechers support raised to 30 making both have the same level techs.

What I meant was, WT started off with better support than GT in the beginning. I just got lost with everything I said.

GT started off with lvl 10 Support, and WT had lvl 20. You know how long PSU vanilla lasted? A looong time.

AoI comes along and GT has more support.

What I'm saying is, ST can't classify GT as either as more of a support or offensive techer. Having S-rank RCSMs leads me to believe GT should be a stronger offensive techer, but when I actually PLAY GT, playing more Support seems to fit its role much better.

WT on the other hand suits more of an offensive techer than GT, but oddly enough, has less TP? This will soon change, but both types have the same support cap, so either way WT is a better "techer" overall.

[Darki]

I'd trade 10 support levels for moar tech levels. WT is not suited to support, unless you're throwing some techs, when you're in the middle of the fight doing a combo is a little hard to pull out the resta wand and help people. On my GT, by the way, is so easy to stop shooting and throw a resta with my already out wand, that I almost never let people to use trimates.

As I once said, I see WT as the offensive techer and GT as the supporter. I don't really know how other people feel about this, but from the begining I believed (before WT got level 30 support) that WT should have level 40 techs and 20 support, and GT the opposite.

[unicorn]

I'd trade 10 support levels for moar tech levels. WT is not suited to support, unless you're throwing some techs, when you're in the middle of the fight doing a combo is a little hard to pull out the resta wand and help people. On my GT, by the way, is so easy to stop shooting and throw a resta with my already out wand, that I almost never let people to use trimates.

As I once said, I see WT as the offensive techer and GT as the supporter. I don't really know how other people feel about this, but from the begining I believed (before WT got level 30 support) that WT should have level 40 techs and 20 support, and GT the opposite.

I agree. It can be annoying playing WT like a nurse, because you should practically always be meleeing and in the middle of some combo (whether it be Majarra, Moubou, Buten, etc). Even when I play AT, I don't complete all PAs because I should be able to support. Although its easier to complete combos and be a nurse as an AT because of the speed boost.

[Darki]

But, anyways, it's the same, even with striking techs sometimes you're "late", like with Nos-/Dam- techs, and WT is praticulary suited for Dam- ones as we can eat damage like kamikazes being one of the best "deffensive" classes. Wartecher is "suited" for an offensive melee because that way we don't need to worry if we'll have time to do a full combo then resta then combo again. Also, there's another inconvenient when you're FACING or crowded by mobs and you can't reach a partner in time.

Guntecher, in the other hand, has proficiency with one-handed ranged weapons, that means you can basically snipe around your mates without going too far and in a split second take the wand, throw a resta and start shooting again. No combo, no time to wait. As you attack from long range you rarely are crowded.

One thing, but that is a double-edged blade, is that PS games consider support the Force's work, along with nuking techs. They tried to do a difference with MF and AT, but the fact is that you always see MF's trying to use Giresta/Reverser (if I ever liked MF I wouldn't lose time with any support techs even Reverser, I'd just use Resta to pair it in a wand with Regrants), and ATs forgetting of support to try to nuke. The effect on this is that people tend to associate techer = nurse. There are 5 techer classes, and 4 of them are average supporters. I believe there's no need of that. WT would be fine (even better) with the minimun support (20, for items) and maximun TECH abbility (40, for expert classes). GT would be fine with highest support abbility (40, as opposing WT) and enough tech level to just use them when there's a ranged-resistant mob (20, or 30 for bawws).

I know I can be considered a "bad player", but since I gave up support and decided to use only R/R and Giresta/Megistar on my WT, I play better. I feel less stressed, I don't need to go run tag everything buff resta try to kill. I just buff myself, and go kill. If I can help someone I'll do, but as an offensive class, I believe my best way to support is to kill the monster is hitting you, rather than healing you.

[RandomTask]

I totally agree and many have said that GT should get S rank cards for a long long time now. We don't want them for the better stats but for the looks the S rank cards provide. Also, with GT being the 1handed gun expert, I would only assume S rank cards would've been included... On the other hand, as much as I'd love to have cards in S rank, I'd still rather have my S rank RCSM's instead. I would never give those up as they work wonders on a fleshy GT using linear or dam techs.

About doublesabers....

I think GT is getting these just to speed up their mission times. I already know I'll always have a doublesaber on my pallet now ready to use Transportation Dance between fighting mobs. It's so great I'm not sure why anyone would complain about getting them. In Phantasy Star Portable, every class can use at least A rank double saber and it's great just for getting around the stage faster. Before anyone mentions the Transportation Dance distance nerf, it's still faster compared to running.

[syouz]

I totally agree and many have said that GT should get S rank cards for a long long time now. We don't want them for the better stats but for the looks the S rank cards provide. Also, with GT being the 1handed gun expert, I would only assume S rank cards would've been included... On the other hand, as much as I'd love to have cards in S rank, I'd still rather have my S rank RCSM's instead. I would never give those up as they work wonders on a fleshy GT using linear or dam techs.

About doublesabers....

I think GT is getting these just to speed up their mission times. I already know I'll always have a doublesaber on my pallet now ready to use Transportation Dance between fighting mobs. It's so great I'm not sure why anyone would complain about getting them. In Phantasy Star Portable, every class can use at least A rank double saber and it's great just for getting around the stage faster. Before anyone mentions the Transportation Dance distance nerf, it's still faster compared to running.

you know how goes with segac acrofighter is the one handed striking master but cant use the ONE HANDED WEAPON WHIP!!!!!!!!!! why segac whyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x

[Alnet]

you know how goes with segac acrofighter is the one handed striking master but cant use the ONE HANDED WEAPON WHIP!!!!!!!!!! why segac whyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The same reason that Acrofighter can't use Wands. You did notice that every class with a Whip can use a Wand, yes?

It's a FO melee weapon. Like how Slicer is a Hunter range weapon, and RCSM is a Ranger tech weapon (though that's not entirely correct, seeing as Slicers do melee damage, and RCSMs do bullet damage).

[Darki]

And AF shouldn't use cards neither. It's also a FO ranged weapon. The only class that is allowed to use one of both FO ranged weapons (Cards/Bows) legitimately even not being really a techer is Protranser using bows as you gotta level FO if you wanna be PT.

AF should have had Xbows, not Cards. If you want my oppinion, the only class that can't use whips and would make more sense instead of Double sabers, are Guntechers.

For the Tornado Dance, wasn't it faster than walking only due to the attack speed increase on FM's? I believed for normal speed classes it was slower or same than walking, I've never seen FiGs using TD instead of walking before...

[mvffin]

FI has been TD'ing since before FM existed. It's faster than walking.

[Magus_84]

It's always been faster. It's just that people started raving about it only after FM came out.

[Darki]

Oh then I guess it was my low graphic settings fault. I guess I should think about upgrading my grapphics card so it goes fine on frameskip 0.

[MSAksion]

Guntecher S ranks make only half sense. I understand the S rank left handed small arms - the GT is the ACRO gunner before Acro Fight and Acro Tech were ever invented.

But i would totally give up S rank shooting pods and S rank longbow for an S rank card.

[Dymalos]

I would NEVER give up an S Rank longbow. They may suck at the moment, but they've been given alot of love in the JP Supplemental Update. Alot of you are severely overvaluing the worthiness of S-Rank cards. As has been pointed out, the ATP difference between A and S is neglible, you're essentially making an aesthetic choice which is fine, but not one that I would personally make. I don't even use cards as GT, because the other 1h Ranged choices blow them out of the water, and S-Ranks would do very little to mitigate the disparity in DPS. Besides if we're talking aesthetics than it doesn't get much better than S-Rank Bows.

[Darki]

I agree with the bows thin g, I've tried to play with rifles but I really need my bowz so I ended going back to them, I'd never take them out of GT.

For the card thing... you should understand that there are only 3 S card models only now (not counting the Kubara), who knows if someday we'll get the "S2" rank ones, I'd really love to use them. :/

[Dymalos]

Well having played Phantasy Star Portable, I tend to refer to that game for things we're likely to see in the "future". Some of the weapons in that game are only now coming out in Japan. Like the Meat weapons, Tenora Works RCSMs, GRM Whips. Heck there's still no sign of Tenora Works A or S Rank single or Twin Sabers in JP, but they're definitely in PSP. Seeing as how there's no sign of 13*+ Cards in that game, I'm not holding my breath that they'll ever be released.

[Chuck_Norris]

Y'know, a +10 9* GRM Card is stronger than a Kaza-Kikami.

[Darki]

Y'know, I use one and I know how strong is it, but nobody knows even if they're going to release 13*+ cards, and I highly doubt if that was the case that they'd be weaker than a 10/10 Card Regas. At least, grinded.

[Chuck_Norris]

Y'know, I use one and I know how strong is it, but nobody knows even if they're going to release 13*+ cards, and I highly doubt if that was the case that they'd be weaker than a 10/10 Card Regas. At least, grinded.

I wasn't referring to the 13*+ bit. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be complaining. You get cards just as strong as 12*'s, and base ATP and bullet levels higher than the other classes who have S rank versions. Oh? You want S rank ones for looks? You really want to throw paper dolls/stars at enemies that badly? The only slightly cool looking one is Kaza-Kikami, and that has a really stupid sounding effect.

[Darki]

I never said I personally wanted to use them, I'm already happy with my Regas (though my CAST GT would look ubber cute with a Hoshi-Kikami/Magical Wand combo). What I'm saying it's just that GT being the RANGER/FORCE hybrid makes it the perfect candidate to be user of both ranged FO weapons in the game, one of them being cards, at the same level. Even more sense than AT or even FT.

If it's only for looks, well, I don't care, but I know many people does and I don't think that's not valid, since for example I prefer using B rank bows on my WT because A rank and GRM ones suck so badly at apperance. Also, I don't think GT should be cut off the possibility of getting much better cards in case they're released (as I said, for example 13*+ cards, it's possible), when in theory GT is the natural user of this weapon.

At least, it makes more sense than giving a FORCE & GUNNER, a MELEE weapon. ._. Maybe I'm the one with the twisted logics, then. ._.