So...why can't I get PSU to run...

[autumn]

I played the Aion beta all weekend and enjoyed the heck out of it. Doing this has made me realize how bad PSU is. I don't mean by way of gameplay, I like using a controller over the keyboard. I mean by way of visuals. I have a PoS laptop and it ran Aion on the not quite lowest graphics (I was appalled it ran it at all, none the less on a little above its lowest settings) at my full resolution (1280x800 I think). So... why can't I get PSU to run at anything higher then the lowest graphics I can get without turning the photon glow off at a resolution better then 800x600? *facepalm*

[Kent]

...It took this long?

Really, Phantasy Star Universe's graphical optimization is some of the worst I've seen since the PS2 launch (Orphen, anyone?). You should see what the game's like on the Xbox 360 version - despite that the Xbox 360 hardware is miles ahead of what the PS2 has to offer, it runs with framerate slowdowns galore, with no good reason for it, based on the quality of the visuals and the power of the hardware.

If the hardware can run something that looks like Ninja Gaiden II at a steady 60 frames per second, there's no way in hell you can justify getting half that in a game that looks like PSU, much less the horrible slowdowns that can occur in various "intense" situations (or parts where you just happen to look the wrong way in a room). It's tempting to say that they either decided to emulate a PS2 in its entirety to run the game (pretty likely, in the case of the 360 version) or the graphics pipeline is clogged with so much inefficient crap that it chokes on relatively minor things (also pretty likely, in the case of the PC version).

[Outrider]

If the hardware can run something that looks like Ninja Gaiden II at a steady 60 frames per second

I agree with what you're saying, but uh - NGII as the example of excellent graphics on the Xbox? It looks like a shiny Xbox 1 game.[/off-topic]

I don't think anybody is going to argue that Sega is the most technically impressive company out there - when was the last time they put out a game that really made you think they were pushing the system?

Their games generally reek of low budgets, short production schedules, and/or just shoddy design (I threw that one in for all you Sonic fans out there). PSU is just one shining example of it. In fact, I'd bet that if you went back and read some old threads in the forum from when the game was first released, you'll find plenty of people complaining about how the game was running even then.

[amtalx]

I don't think anybody is going to argue that Sega is the most technically impressive company out there - when was the last time they put out a game that really made you think they were pushing the system?

Sonic & Knuckles

[biggabertha]

Shenmue

[Outrider]

Sonic & Knuckles

My point entirely - What was that, 1994 or 1995?

On a side note, I remember when that game came out. Holy crap, I feel old.

[autumn]

...It took this long?

Yeah ^^; PSU was the first and only game I played on my computer for a little over 2 years now. Honestly after seeing how PSU ran I was very doubtful that my poor little laptop COULD run anything else. I figured it met the lowest specs for my other game though so I went and gave it a whirl and looked like this O_o;;;

I don't know a lot about computers, or programming, or computer gaming so unfortunately it came as a shock to me. Eh, hehe ^^;

[Kent]

I agree with what you're saying, but uh - NGII as the example of excellent graphics on the Xbox? It looks like a shiny Xbox 1 game.[/off-topic]
My point with picking that was that it simply looks much better and has a consistently-high framerate. I don't really think it's an example of excellent Xbox 360 graphics, but they're still not bad by any means.

[Outrider]

My point with picking that was that it simply looks much better and has a consistently-high framerate. I don't really think it's an example of excellent Xbox 360 graphics, but they're still not bad by any means.

Oooh. I gotcha. I thought it was more of a "If the 360 plays the most graphically intensive game, why can't it play this" kind of thing. My mistake.

[Majarra]

I agree with what you're saying, but uh - NGII as the example of excellent graphics on the Xbox? It looks like a shiny Xbox 1 game.[/off-topic]

I don't think anybody is going to argue that Sega is the most technically impressive company out there - when was the last time they put out a game that really made you think they were pushing the system?
Their games generally reek of low budgets, short production schedules, and/or just shoddy design (I threw that one in for all you Sonic fans out there). PSU is just one shining example of it. In fact, I'd bet that if you went back and read some old threads in the forum from when the game was first released, you'll find plenty of people complaining about how the game was running even then.I thought Sonic unleashed [360/PS3] looked amazing. Except for the water and some jungles it played perfect.

[amtalx]

With games like Killzone 2 and GoW2 sharing the same space...you really think Sonic Unleashed was pushing the hardware? :disapprove:

[Majarra]

With games like Killzone 2 and GoW2 sharing the same space...you really think Sonic Unleashed was pushing the hardware? :disapprove:Not pushing.....but very, very close. You dont think the game looks shockingly good for a ST game?

[amtalx]

To be honest, not in the least. Aside from the texture resolution, that game could have been squeezed out of an Xbox or PS2. Those graphics might be good for ST, but that is a blatant admission that ST is incapable of making a graphically impressive game.

[MrNomad]

To be honest, not in the least. Aside from the texture resolution, that game could have been squeezed out of an Xbox or PS2. Those graphics might be good for ST, but that is a blatant admission that ST is incapable of making a graphically impressive game.

I beg to differ, I think the graphics in SU were very well done. I mean it's not like for a kiddy/cartoony game you would expect a lot of detail, but I think they really made the graphics appealing.

[Zyrusticae]

What game were you looking at?

I think it's pretty clear that SU's graphics are not feasible on a regular ol' Xbox (or else you're looking through rose-tinted goggles).

They made some excellent use of shaders to really give the game a nice feel. I can't really put a finger on it, but it's got a nice kind of... it looks like what a late-90's 3D Sonic the Hedgehog TV series would look like, y'know? In olden times (not really that olden, heh), this kind of quality was actually what we got for pre-rendered scenes on TV...

http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14242719/sonic-unleashed/images/sonic-unleashed-20081103001501269.html?page=mediaFull

I personally wouldn't mind if the next PS game looked as good as this. And ran just as well, too. There's just no excuse for PSU's gawd-awful performance...

[amtalx]

Take all the colors away and look at the raw models. Very unimpressive for this generation. I said textures aside for a reason. The original Xbox wouldn't have the memory to support that resolution or the lighting. Go play Killzone 2 and learn something about impressive graphics.

[Outrider]

I actually do think Sonic Unleashed looks pretty good (I've only played the demo, though, so keep that in mind.)

Still, it's far from the most impressive graphics on a current-gen system. I do like the art direction on the level I played though - it's nice and bright, something that's seriously lacking in a lot of games these days.

[Kent]

Take all the colors away and look at the raw models. Very unimpressive for this generation. I said textures aside for a reason.
You know, the exact same argument could be made for Gears of War. The character models in those games are incredibly low (we're talking a maximum of 12k polys for a single character), and you know, the games (especially the second one) look really, really good.

Really good texturing, lighting, and shader effects are what make graphics really good these days, while simultaneously being very capable of delivering high-end graphics while keeping polygon counts low.

In fact, the technique used to create a normal map is actually making a really high-poly model, with all of the nooks and crannies that you want in as detail, and simply projecting that normal data onto a really low-poly model, to create the visual effect, while cutting the number of math calculations having to be done per second by a considerable amount (potentially up in the thousands, for a single well-defined character).

This is, in fact, how Master Chief in Halo 2 has quite a bit fewer polygons than he did in Halo 1, while looking substantially better overall.

[amtalx]

Ok, I see, but while that may be true, SU didn't do any of the fancy whizbang magic. I still remain unimpressed, and find the idea that SU was pushing the hardware absolutely ludicrous. Does it look terrible? No, but it was a very average looking game. There's nothing really remarkable about it.

[Zyrusticae]

What? SU actually uses indirect lighting and subsurface scattering, y'know...

http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14242719/sonic-unleashed/images/sonic-unleashed-20081120013159376.html?page=mediaFull

That aside, I wouldn't use Killzone 2 as an example of awe-inspiring graphics. For that category my vote would go to either Crysis (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/694190/crysis/images/crysis-20071112063647735.html?page=mediaFull) or S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/945039/stalker-clear-sky/images/stalker-clear-sky-20080826092533086.html?page=mediaFull), both of which are, naturally, PC exclusives.

[amtalx]

Why would you compare a console game to PC only games?

[Zyrusticae]

Because of this.


Go play Killzone 2 and learn something about impressive graphics.

Honestly, it's rather insulting that you'd say something like that.

As a PC gamer, I feel it is my sworn duty to correct you. After all, we have the most powerful hardware and the most graphically intense games in existence. I think I know what "impressive graphics" are, thank you very much.

[amtalx]

Oh for the love of... It doesn't make sense to compare PC games to console games. I chose Killzone 2 specifically because it was a console game. If SU were a PC game than I would have made an entirely different argument. I've been playing PC games since the BBS days and when they were distributed on 5 1/4" floppies, so I know where you are coming from. Keep your apples and oranges separate before you try to make a point.

[Zyrusticae]

Apples and oranges? Really?

Well, regardless of what you're comparing it to, I find Killzone 2 to be sorely lacking in visual appeal, and the blurry, low-resolution textures definitely do not help one bit. In contrast, I don't even notice SU's texture work - to be honest, SU is just as bad in that department at times. The primary difference is in the shader work, which transforms what would otherwise be an unremarkable scene into something palatable to the eyes. Yes, the geometry is simple and there's not a whole lot of visual noise in the scenes, but that's par for the course for a Sonic game - when you're moving at 100km/h I somehow doubt you're going to be noticing the niggling little details.

But, y'know, if you just don't like it then there's nothing that's going to convince you otherwise. It is, after all, a matter of taste. (And none of us can say for sure whether or not it pushes the hardware, as after all, we don't have that kind of information on hand.)

[xT3rroR3LiT3x]

you ppls don't understand the one reason the grafics on psu can't be all that great compared to all the other games you guys brought up. all those other games you ppls brought up well non of them are mmo's like pso and psu. honestly sega and sonic team well i really dout it's low budget thats forcing these games to come out the way they are in grafics. theres someone in the recent forums that brought up sonic unleashed and yes those grafics are very well, alot better than psu. really just compare mmo's to the games you brought up. look at runescape, psu, lost chaos, and i'm sure worlds of warcraft has not great grafics lol thats bc those games are based on real times and pushing the limits of the games grafics would just make it lagg alot more. really psu is already laggy enough lol but yea psu is a big success to sega and sonic team bc of the fact that its still the best mmo on 360 and the design of the game is based on pso the first game to ever go online for gaming systems lol so yes compare psu to other mmo's and you will notice that they all suck in grafics. honestly psu is the best i've seen so far ^^ but i yet need to play final fantasy XI :}

[Chuck_Norris]

you ppls don't understand the one reason the grafics on psu can't be all that great compared to all the other games you guys brought up. all those other games you ppls brought up well non of them are mmo's like pso and psu.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQQIx81rTI

That's an MMO scheduled for this year.

Did I just blow your mind?

On a side note, why are all of you calling it "SU"? Did the letter P go out of style?

[amtalx]

I brought up Killzone 2 and Gow2 for a specific reason. GoW2 uses a heavy pre-processing engine while Killzone 2 uses a lot of deferred rendering (post-processing). They are both solid examples of both. The advantage to pre-processing is that you get sharp textures and models; however, it never looks realistic. It always has that distinct "this is a computer game" look. On the other hand, post-processing may suffer in terms of texture fidelity and small details like facial animation in cutscenes, but far outpaces pre-processing in terms of producing realistic looking colors and light.

But anyway, my original point that Sega wasn't pushing the hardware with SU. I took the fact that there are other games out there running on the same hardware that look significantly better as evidence that Sega wasn't really pushing the envelope. They weren't breaking any new ground or doing anything particularly creative from a technical standpoint. The lock-on technology they had with Sonic & Knuckles however was totally unheard of and actually a very cool and unique idea at the time.

[Zyrusticae]

you ppls don't understand the one reason the grafics on psu can't be all that great compared to all the other games you guys brought up. all those other games you ppls brought up well non of them are mmo's like pso and psu.

Invalid point. PSU and PSO are not MMOs. They're regular multiplayer with a lobby system, ala Guild Wars. Having a subscription fee does not change this fact.

It's even more moot when you consider games like, say, Vanguard or Age of Conan, which are full, open-world MMOs with much better graphics (technically speaking) AND better performance overall. It gets even worse when you compare it with Aion, where you can have over a hundred people onscreen at any one point in time without egregious slowdowns (this despite it having some of the best character models in the business!).

@amtalx
Ah, I see. I can't really agree, as I don't believe they look "significantly better", but I see what you're getting at. Agree to disagree, as it were.

[Outrider]

On a side note, why are all of you calling it "SU"? Did the letter P go out of style?

Sonic Unleashed got brought up a little while ago.

[Chuck_Norris]

Sonic Unleashed got brought up a little while ago.

Aaah, my mistake. All that talk about "SU not being anything graphically groundbreaking" lead me to believe it was PSU.

[DreXxiN]

Nothing looks low-res to me. I've played Killzone 2 on a 1080p TV and it looks quite good to me..Not as godly as PC graphics can be, but admitedly, it's not "Shit." It looks incredibly good, better than most PC games. (And yes, I've played Crysis with 4x AA on my 1080p TV with all max settings in DX10..25 FPS is hot...and it wasn't my computer T_T)

Killzone just suffers from poor saturation and lack of AntiAliasing like most PS3 games, sadly.

However, CryEngine3 DESIGNED for 360 and PS3 I am EXTREMELY interested in and fascinated to see how well they optimize for consoles. Obviously it won't be no maxed out CryEngine2..but it's still rather intriguing to think these beautiful graphics (or close to) could make it to the consoles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4DOtCxSJvg&NR=1

Go to the actual video to view HD, and check the related videos if you're interested for more in-depth displays and examples.