Re-implementation of the "Extra Attack". *Adding depth to PSU*

[RemiusTA]

A few days ago, i was staying over a friends house for a few weeks. I had let him borrow my Gamecube months prior, so i havent played it for a while. For some reason i had brought my GCN Memorycards in my bag, so i just decided to pop it and and play with my PSO character to remember how PSO felt compared to PSU.

I have to say that even though i defend PSU in every "PSO VS PSU" topic...PSO and all its flaws is still a far superior gaming experience than PSU is by a long shot. However, im not going to get into the reasons why ive concluded that. Im just going to go into one of the reasons PSO's battle system is still far deeper than PSUs. And one of these reasons lie in customization of weapons.

So, me being an aspiring future Game Designer, i thought i'd just share some applications and how some of PSO's features would GREATLY enhance the feel of PSU. This AINT a "REVIVE PSO PLZ THREAD", please dont make it one.

------The "Extra Attack" of PSO-------

This is just covering the expanded depth of the PSO battle system, in comparison to PSU's battle system. You need to know how it worked at least slightly to get the rest.BTW, this section is mostly for those who have NOT played PSO. If you are a PSO vet, skip to the next section. If you're a PSO newbie, or simply want to keep reading my awesome text, continue reading ;D



With that out of the way, ill get on with the topic. For those who DONT know, PSU's attack system follows a modified version of PSO. In PSU we have Attack, Just Attack, and Photon arts for all striking weapons, and simply Technics and Bullets for Force weapons / ranged weapons respectively, but we all know that. In PSO, however, EVERY weapon had 3 modes of attack -- Normal, Heavy, and Extra. Normal attacks were done by pressing the button at the correct time -- same as doing a Just Attack in PSU, except far easier to accomplish. Heavy Atttacks were (more or less) the equilivent of Just Attack in PSU, except they could be executed at the press of a button with the sacrifice of a longer startup delay and a sufficient dip in accuracy. (WHAT PSU FORGOT TO IMPLEMENT, MIGHT I ADD.) Yes, you could attack with Wands and Rods. (In fact, Rods were generally "melee force weapons". Nobody used them that way, though it was neat that you could.) Be aware Technics could be casted barehanded in PSO, and that there were no Bullets in PSO's ranged weapons.

Now, In PSO, when weapons dropped, some of them were [????] class weapons that needed to be appraised (Examined by a shop for a laughably small fee) before you could use their "secret" abilities. All dropped weapons could have one of these features, including Non-rares. Some of these abilities were passive (always worked), like extra % damage to specific classes of enemies (Native, Altered Beast, Machine, Dark). This feature has been (more or less) replaced and expanded upon in PSU by the Elements System.However, there were other special abilities that sometimes came with the weapon. These were utulized in the form of an Extra Attack.

Like i said, This is mostly for the ones who skipped PSO. You can go to the next section if you already know how Extra Attack Worked. Otherwise, Clicky Clicky! vvv [spoiler-box]
For example, lets say a Saber dropped, but it was a "[????] Saber". I would take it to the Tekker, and after he appraised my item, the item would then become a "Heat Saber". It has the exact same stats as a regular saber would, except the option to use the Extra Attack is now avaliable. During the delay on the Extra Attack, my character would get a small flame around his body. Once the attack hit, a very small fire effect would appear on the enemy, and my attack would be counted as Fire Damage. Elemental attacks were not the only ability you were able to aquire on [????] Weapons. Lets say that "[????] Saber" was identified as a "Draw Saber". During the extra attack, if my attack collided with the enemy, a small amount of its HP would be absorbed by my character. Or, if it was identified as a "Panic Saber", upon damaging my enemy with the Extra Attack, there was a small % chance it would become Confused. This principle belonged to every class of weapon -- Swords, Sabers, Handguns, Mechguns, Rods, Wands -- Everything.

Each of these very neat weapon abilities had a level of power, and the higher the difficulty of the game, the better the abilities would become. Also, each ability changed the name of the weapon, as ive shown above. Every ability had an assigned prefix, and thats what you used to know how powerful the ability was / what it did. I pulled a List from GameFAQs to show you :

Extra Attack Abilities
[spoiler-box]
Fire Class (Heat damage.)
- Heat
- Fire
- Flame
- Burning

Ice Class (Ice damage, chance to Freeze enemy)
- Ice
- Frost
- Freeze
- Blizzard

Electricity Class (Electric damage. I BELIEVE these could cause paralysis too.)
- Shock
- Thunder
- Storm
- Tempest

Paralysis Class (Ment solely for Paralysis. Works better than Electricity class i believe.)
- Hold
- Bind
- Seize
- Arrest

Confusion Class (Confuses enemy)
- Panic
- Riot
- Havoc
- Chaos

Death Class (Incapatation, similar to Megid.)
- Dim
- Shadow
- Dark
- Hell

HP Drain Class (Absorbs % of enemy health)
- Draw
- Drain
- Fill
- Gush

TP Drain Class (Absorbs % of enemy TP)
- Heart
- Mind
- Soul
- Geist

EXP Drain Class (Absorbs % of enemy EXP)
- Master
- Lord
- King

HP Reduction Class (Reduces a % of max enemy HP. I think one is 25% and other is 50%.)
- Devil
- Demon

Charge Class (Sacrifices meseta to significantly boost attack strength)
- Charge

Sacrifice Class (Sacrifices HP to significantly boost attack strength)
- Berserk
- Spirit[/spoiler-box]

Also be aware as the extra attack level would increase, the visual effect would increase as well. For example, a "Burning Calibur" (Sword) during Extra Attack would have your character catch on fire for a small second, and the attack would have a small Rafoie'ish explosion Effect appear upon hitting the opponent, opposed to small flicker from a "Heat Calibur". A "Tempest Mechgun" would have multiple strikes of lighting appear on the opponent upon every hit, as opposed to one strike of lighting appearing from a "Shock Mechgun".
[/spoiler-box]

------Wow, Sounds Great. So, how did it work out?-------


Well, anyone who's played PSO knows that for the most part, it didn't. Although the attacks visually looked alot cooler, and the name of the weapons became FAR more appealing, the [????] Aspect of weapons became completely useless once you gained access to Hard mode and began aquiring Rare Weapons, which almost always had their own built-in Extra Attack, and the raw power of their Normal/Heavy attack almost always made the Extra Attack, regardless of its class, completely useless, unless it was a Status Inflicting class, like Confusion or Freeze, or HP Halving or Death. Even still, in the higher difficulties, these worked so rarely we just never used them. However, PSU (believe it or not kiddies) is FAR more balanced than PSO ever hoped to be. Its mechanics (DEF stat aside) all work pretty damn well, and elemental % weight is pretty heavy on this game. The Extra attacks did something in PSO that PSU has utterly and completely failed to accomplish: giving rare weapons their own identities. Not only did all the rare weapons in PSO have their own kickass look to them, almost each one did something that the other could not.

Which brings me to my most important aspect of this entire topic

******---------- Rare Special Abilities----------*****


Tsumikiri J-Sword, Lavis Cannon, Dark Flow, Orotiagito, Elysion, Hildebears Cane, Heavens Punisher.

Anyone who's played PSO would know that either one of these weapons, regardless of its strength or level, are all 10x cooler than the coolest weapon on PSU. No, its not because of their looks, or their stats (save for Tsumikiri), but becuse of its Rare Special Ability, specific to that one weapon. You see, the Super Uber Rare weapons in PSO actually FELT like Super Uber rare weapons, because they did Super Uber WTF Rare things.

Take the Tsumikiri J-Sword for example. (the PSO version of the Agito Replica, which is a HORRIBLE knockoff of this kickawesome weapon.)
[spoiler-box]
http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/jswordspecial.gif[/spoiler-box]
Instead of having its "Attack" renamed to "Slash" (wtf segac?) and hitting one extra target (seriously?), This beautiful weapon has the ability to sacrifice your Photon Blast Guage to execute an amazingly sexy ability that hits every enemy and target in range. Multi-hitbox bosses, run for cover. Broken? Yeah, very much so, but who the hell cares? If you knew what it took to get this baby (no hacking), you'd know its more than justified.

More examples? Clicky Clicky! (otherwise continue)

[spoiler-box]Lavis Cannon
[spoiler-box]http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/BB-LAVIS_CANNON-ACTION-1.jpg[/spoiler-box]
The Special Abilitiy on this baby takes your HP away. But nobody minds popping a few more trimates at the cost of becoming effing Ryu from Street Fighter and screaming HADOKEN everytime you move your sword.

Orotiagito
[spoiler-box]http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/GC-OROTIAGITO-ACTION-1.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Okay, so instead of Ryu from Street Fighter, you get to be Bankai Ichigo and scream GETSUGA TENSHOU during combos, and watch your attack range increase as your katana emits a wave that pierces through enemies. Bad. Ass.

Elysion
[spoiler-box]http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/elysion_4.jpg[/spoiler-box]
By now you know, the creators of PSO actually designed weapons to be COOL. This weapon here was a high-level, rare saber designed for use by FORCES, requiring high Mental Strength to use instead of the usual Attack Power. On top of the neato design, the extra attack shot Low-level rapid Foie atttacks that did moderate damage -- perfect for when you dont feel like wasting precious recovery items and want to use a weapon for a change.
[/spoiler-box]


-------Yeah okay alright, thats nice and all. Whats the Point?--------


PSU WEAPONS ARE B O R I N G, THATS THE POINT! Yeah, we got the Psycho Wand, Agito Replica, Elysion, Edel Fusil, Rattlesnake, Sweet Death, Kan Yu, De-Ragan Slayer, Carriguine Ructar, Double Agito, Tiga de Ragan, Cubo whatever, Ragan-Ragan, Aghedea Cannon, Love Heart, Blah blah blah blah blah, they are all BORING AS HELL. The thing is, PSU thought that by implementing the ability to change Photon Arts, fighting would instantly become deep and fun, choosing which art to use in battle. That obviously didn't work, since people have been complaining about repetitive boring ass combat since PSU v1, and they had to re-implement Heavy Attacks (Just Attack) to break the monotony.

What PSU needs is the ability to make you WANT to effectively switch between weapons that have superior/inferior stats. To be able to go for the weapons that dont only have High Elemental Percentages and ATP/TP, but something else about them that makes them unique aside from Stats and looks. To give every weapon its potental place in battle, and lower the amount of stat and DPS whoring running rampant in the balance of this game. A weapon should be more than its ATP / TP rating. (This counts DOUBLE for Forces and rangers, since we dont have Photon Arts.)
tl;dr, PSU needs specific weapon abilities.



Continue in next post

[RemiusTA]

----...And how exactly does THAT work?----

In any number of ways. For ALL weapons. As for mapping the attack on the controller/mouse, there are 2 methods i know of:

Method 1
PSU does not use every button on the gamepad. I would suggest the L2/Left Trigger button (used to check mission data/recieve partner cards), but its already in use. However, since its barely used in that aspect, one could toggle between Normal / Extra attack by holding down the left trigger (when not in pallet switch mode). The Left Trigger/L2 function can be switched to the D-pad, since its only really used like once every few missions.

Method 2 -- Instead of remapping...
Make the Extra Attack function Toggle Only, map it to the Up, Left, or Down Dpad. This wouldn't really work well / at all, as it wouldnt really allow for mixing combos since you have to take your hand off the analog stick to reach the Dpad.



----...(This is the "GET TO THE POINT!" / TL;DR section.)----










Im going to take this space to make something clear to everyone. REPETITION IS ~NOT~ DIFFICULTY. Monster that take ages to kill, experience that takes weeks to get, and levels that take eons to finish are NOT difficult. Difficulty (in THIS game) is determined by the Percent Chance of you and your team being wiped out, and that can be very easily adjusted. If they wanted to. Im just pointing that out before I continue. Making the player feel more powerful does not make the game boring. Enemies that dont adjust make the game boring. Im not covering that, so just imagine S4 missions with enemies that frag lv 200 characters in 3 hits.







The Extra Attack could work multiple ways in PSU, and used to MANY advantages of already existing systems. Ill explain them here.

-Adding additional use for Blast/SUV Gauge -- Giving one to Humans/Newmans-


Finally, a system that can give Humans/Newmans usage of that grayed-out gauge under their HP bar.



When you synthesize a weapon, that weapon can be given Photon Blast ability. NO, this does NOT mean your human/newman summons a dragon from the sky. It means, it can give your weapon a skill that uses this gauge for its special ability. These abilities can be reserved for A-rank + weapons only.

For instance, lets say you aquire a weapon with the ability Haste. As you play, your Photon Blast (SUV/Nanoblast) gauge goes up, just like it would a beast or cast. Your weapon allows you to hold down the Extra Attack button, and for cost of that gauge (Just like a PP counter), you are able to activate special attributes of that weapon.

For instance, special abilities may include :

Haste - While button is held down and you have more than 20% of your gauge filled, your attack speed increases. For every registered hit, the gauge is decreased by 20%. It does not have to be full to use, rather you can save for tight situations. At max, you can hasten 5 combo hits. *So for instance, if you hasten Jarboga and hit a dragon, say bb to 40% gauge.) Works for Technics and Bullets.

Sharpen - While button is held down and you have more than 20% gauge full, you gain +2 hitbox targets per hit for whatever weapon/technic/bullet you're using. A successful hit per combo decreases gauge by 20%. Technic and Bullet able.


Massless - While button is held down and more than 20% gauge full, your attacks damage the opponent but do not slow your attack down, as if you were swinging at air. Decreases gauge by 20%. striking only. (likely an ability for an Axe or Sword, or katana)

Accuteness - While button is held down and more than 50% gauge full, if your in your attacking animation and you collide with an enemy attack, you will automatically block that attack, but take 5% of would-be damage. Gauge is decreased by 50%. Technics and striking weapons only.

Pierce - While button is held down and more than 75% of gauge is full, your attack is not hindered by any enemy, and damages every target and hitbox it comes in contact with. Bullets and Technics only.




Im not sure how you would get these specifically on your weapon. Perhaps through extra slot? Or maybe you can use the system im about to describe below.....

-Adding depth to the Synthesis System -
An Extra Attack system could add an ENORMOUS amount of depth to the Synthesis system, which really only lets you customize the element of your weapon. An array of New Items could be added. When combined with your weapon synthesis, they could give the chance of adding a specific Extra Attack, without altering the Success rate of your synthesis. The choice of adding absolutely any extra biomaterial ingredient to your synth should be given, to add a sense of exploration to the current system. The grade of the ability should be based on the star count of the weapon. For example :


~STRIKING WEAPONS~

Donoph's Soul + Non Elemental Weapon = Chance of Sacrifice Ability (Give 8% HP to increase attack power of your attack. )

De Ragnus (part) + Fire Elemental Weapon (ban photons) = Chance of high fire elemental attack

De Rol Le (part) + Non-Elemental Weapon = Chance of high Poison Ability

Love Letter + anything = Chance of HP Absorption ability

Brand Reactor + Elemental Weapon = chance of higher Elemental %, chance of OverCharge ability (Sacrifice 7% PP to unleashed a stronger attack)

Dulk Falkis Core + Dark Elemental Weapon = Chance of higher elemental %, High chance of Incapatication ability.


Possible combos are endless. As for Technic and Ranged weapons (Nope, i leave NO class behind!)Your abilitys differ slightly, as you attack in different patterns. However, they have their quirks as well.



~FORCE/RANGED WEAPONS~

Donoph's Soul + Technic Weapon = Chance of Sacrifice Ability (While holding down trigger, a technic cast )

De Ragnus (part) + Technic Weapon = Chance Flame Inheritent ability.( While holding down the trigger, you cast has a slightly larger delay, but all Foie Grade attacks get a boost in elemental % strength + increased chance of infliction. If used with opposite element, your attack is weakened.) Strength increase depends on level of ability.

De Rol Le (part) + Technic Weapon = Chance Ice Inheritent Ability. (same as Flame)

Love Letter + anything = Chance of HP Absorption ability. (While holding down Extra Attack button, casting is slightly longer, but attacks absorb a % of enemy health.)

Brand Reactor + Technic Weapon = chance of Spirit Enhance ability (Sacrifice % more PP per tick to unleashed technics with increased base attack)

Dulk Falkis Core + Technic Weapon = Dark Infuse ability (Same as Flame.) Or Berserk ability (Sacrifice larger HP %'s (like 10%+) + increase delay time to greatly improve strength per tick)


**When using a technic/ranged weapon with no elemental attributes, the Elemental Inheritence temporarly changes the element. Opposite elements may counteract/negate effects. No benefits from other elements.**



**Ranged Weapons work generally the same as Technic weapons. Instead of delay of cast, perhaps it can be slower rate of fire, or decreased accuracy, or both since rangers are so effing overpowered. However since Rangers use bullets, the Elemental effects can still apply.**



But what about Fixed-Element weapons?

Yeah, you become screwed in your choices, since different elemental combos will become impossible because they'll already have them in their synthesis ingredients. and your stuck with Stacking element abilities or Absorbing / halving / charge / sacrifice abilities.


Which brings us to....

USEFUL KUBARA WEAPONS?! NO F**KING WAY.

Way. If a system like this was implemented, you would FINALLY have a reason to own a kubara weapon -- the ability to customize it however you see fit. A Twin-Headed Ragnus with Freezing abilities? No problemeo. They can even give Kubara Weapons the ability to synth more than one ability on to itself, to REALLY make them interesting. Perhaps still not as powerful as the original, but definately worth something in battle even if you have the original.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

i 2nd this idea.

weapons in psu are not uber in any way, feels more like just a little bit more and the power.

really bad style that is why psu has a smaller fallowing then pso

[RemiusTA]

And finally, for the Extremely High * weapons.....



******---------- Rare Special Abilities...PSU STYLE!----------*****


I have no clue what to do for these, but i DO know something needs to change about the high lv. weapons we have now.


Agito Repca (stats aside) is garbage. Psycho Wand (stats aside) is garbage. Fack, even Ely-Sion and Edel Fusil is garbage. What about them screams "FACK THAT GUY IS RETARDED POWERFUL"? What about them makes YOU feel like you're wielding a powerful weapon?

If its "the look", then im sorry, Kan Yu looks like it can be a higher level than the Ely-Sion. These weapons need to be specialized.


Elysion-
The ultimate long sword that is part of Gurhal legend. It is said to have the power to cleave even planets in two. (Sure fooled the hell outta me. I dont even think it does anything different. Does it even SOUND different? )

Regardless. There is no way this weapon would be 15*'s in PSO and be this plain. This weapon can Cleave planets into? Well, it should by DEFAULT have infinite Targets and Hitboxes then. And if not, its special ability should allow you to. Fuck, PSO Episode III even gave you better options than this game.

Ultimate Piercing Wave - Consumes 30% PB Gauge - releases a frontal wave that damages everything in range with critical damage. Can only be used with regular combo. (that means if you have 90% PB gauge, you can unleashed 3 waves)

De Ragan Slayer -
A super high-end, limited edition long sword powered by the highest grade reactor, its power can strike down a De Ragan with a single blow.


Super High-end Reactor? Okay.

Fatal Charge - Consumes 100% PB gauge, 100% PP of weapon, 25% HP - The combo you use this ability with gains infinite targets and hitboxes, and a 300% weapon boost. (In other words, only one combo section gains these benefits. Best used on the last combo of a photon art, obviously spinning strike or gravity break.)

Rutsularod -
The ultimate long staff, created in secret by the Communion of Gurhal. It contains an enormous and evil power.


Enormous evil power, eh?


Fatal Curse - Consumes 100% PB gauge, player reduced to 1%HP - Cast a giant ball of Megid that does MASSIVE damage and auto-incapaticates anything it comes in contact with. Pierces though enemies, does not hit multiple hitboxes.

Agito Repca -
A long sword patterned after actual swords from pre-photonic newman history. Popular among antique buffs. Normal attack hits one extra target.
"Attack" is renamed "Slash".


This is really fun, btw.

Slash - Consumes 10% PB Gauge, 30% PP of weapon - Attacks used with this ability gain a 50% increase in speed, and 10% increase in power. I believe it should get a neat Special Effect to go with it too.

Edel Fusil-
A rifle created as a masterpiece for a chosen few. Known for its bright glow and its amazing firing speed.


Another easy one.



Overpierce - Consumes 10% PB gauge and 10% PP gauge. Shots fired with this ability are fired 50% faster, and pierce enemies. No extra hitboxes.






Seriously, this is WAY too easy. The descriptions of the weapons should give what its special ability should be...they just dont seem to have one on this game while they DID on PSO. Its fun. Take any weapon over 12*, and give it a nice ability. Not something that would BREAK the game and weapon, but an awesome bonus that only that cool weapon can give, something to pay off the bullshit you had to go through to get it. *You're allowed to break 15* weapons, however. Fuck, they're 15* weapons. They're SUPPOSED to be broken. (Save for Edel weapons, since they're alot easier to obtain than say an Agito Repca)



BTW, these abilities dont need to have names to them. They dont have to be told to you at all -- they just need to HAVE them for you to find out you can use them.

And i know this all seems too farfetched, but it would deepen the far easier combat in this game. Not to mention, if they allow higher-leveled weapons to have awesome assist abilities like these, they are allowed to completely BREAK the enemies we have to fight at higher difficulties to make them crucial to strageties.

However, at these rates, progression of our characters will continue 50 damage points at a time, everytime we grind a weapon / find a new one with slightly more DPS. Not much fun at all.

[RemiusTA]

And finally, for the Extremely High * weapons.....



******---------- Rare Special Abilities...PSU STYLE!----------*****


I have no clue what to do for these, but i DO know something needs to change about the high lv. weapons we have now.


Agito Repca (stats aside) is garbage. Psycho Wand (stats aside) is garbage. Fack, even Ely-Sion and Edel Fusil is garbage. What about them screams "FACK THAT GUY IS RETARDED POWERFUL"? What about them makes YOU feel like you're wielding a powerful weapon?

If its "the look", then im sorry, Kan Yu looks like it can be a higher level than the Ely-Sion. These weapons need to be specialized.


Elysion-
The ultimate long sword that is part of Gurhal legend. It is said to have the power to cleave even planets in two. (Sure fooled the hell outta me. I dont even think it does anything different. Does it even SOUND different? )

Regardless. There is no way this weapon would be 15*'s in PSO and be this plain. This weapon can Cleave planets into? Well, it should by DEFAULT have infinite Targets and Hitboxes then. And if not, its special ability should allow you to. Fuck, PSO Episode III even gave you better options than this game.

Ultimate Piercing Wave - Consumes 30% PB Gauge - releases a frontal wave that damages everything in range with critical damage. Can only be used with regular combo. (that means if you have 90% PB gauge, you can unleashed 3 waves)

De Ragan Slayer -
A super high-end, limited edition long sword powered by the highest grade reactor, its power can strike down a De Ragan with a single blow.


Super High-end Reactor? Okay.

Fatal Charge - Consumes 100% PB gauge, 100% PP of weapon, 25% HP - The combo you use this ability with gains infinite targets and hitboxes, and a 300% weapon boost. (In other words, only one combo section gains these benefits. Best used on the last combo of a photon art, obviously spinning strike or gravity break.)

Rutsularod -
The ultimate long staff, created in secret by the Communion of Gurhal. It contains an enormous and evil power.


Enormous evil power, eh?


Fatal Curse - Consumes 100% PB gauge, player reduced to 1%HP - Cast a giant ball of Megid that does MASSIVE damage and auto-incapaticates anything it comes in contact with. Pierces though enemies, does not hit multiple hitboxes.

Agito Repca -
A long sword patterned after actual swords from pre-photonic newman history. Popular among antique buffs. Normal attack hits one extra target.
"Attack" is renamed "Slash".


This is really fun, btw.

Slash - Consumes 10% PB Gauge, 30% PP of weapon - Attacks used with this ability gain a 50% increase in speed, and 10% increase in power. I believe it should get a neat Special Effect to go with it too.

Edel Fusil-
A rifle created as a masterpiece for a chosen few. Known for its bright glow and its amazing firing speed.


Another easy one.



Overpierce - Consumes 10% PB gauge and 10% PP gauge. Shots fired with this ability are fired 50% faster, and pierce enemies. No extra hitboxes. (Bullets should resemble fast-moving Grants balls.)






Seriously, this is WAY too easy. The descriptions of the weapons should give what its special ability should be...they just dont seem to have one on this game while they DID on PSO. Its fun. Take any weapon over 12*, and give it a nice ability. Not something that would BREAK the game and weapon, but an awesome bonus that only that cool weapon can give, something to pay off the bullshit you had to go through to get it. *You're allowed to break 15* weapons, however. Fuck, they're 15* weapons. They're SUPPOSED to be broken. (Save for Edel weapons, since they're alot easier to obtain than say an Agito Repca)



BTW, these abilities dont need to have names to them. They dont have to be told to you at all -- they just need to HAVE them for you to find out you can use them.

And i know this all seems too farfetched, but it would deepen the far easier combat in this game. Not to mention, if they allow higher-leveled weapons to have awesome assist abilities like these, they are allowed to completely BREAK the enemies we have to fight at higher difficulties to make them crucial to strageties.

However, at these rates, progression of our characters will continue 50 damage points at a time, everytime we grind a weapon / find a new one with slightly more DPS. Not much fun at all.

[Genoa]

You've basically nailed the whole reason PSO is so much more appealing than PSU for many players.
The weapon system in PSU isn't nearly as sophisticated as PSO's were.
I very much enjoy the Photon Art system in PSU, it's interface, and for the most part, it's gameplay...
But the turnoff is definitely the weapons themselves.
People will pay millions more for a weapon that's only a handful of points better than the previous tier (example, Needle Cannon vs. Meteor Cannon)
Seriously? The only difference is slightly lower ATP/ATA and a different attack animation (same sound effect).

SPECIAL WEAPONS on PSO had those unique specials along with many unique looks and sound effects. For many weapons, the Special makes it or breaks it.

However, I don't see how you can even begin to implement such ideas into the game now. This isn't just a PC game. The 360 might be able to support an implement change like this, but the PS2 sure can't.
(seriously, what the hell were they thinking letting PS2 in on PSU?).
In my opinion, it would be a great idea for a whole new PSU (not an expansion).
Perhaps make it for PC/PS3 and 360 (preferably remained separated...)

I like your ideas

[Legendria]

Remius, I love ya bro, but I'm going to have to shoot you down here.

Not only is Sonic Team too lazy/understaffed/shitty to retrograde the ENTIRE weapon and synthesis systems, it would take another expansion, if not just a PSU 2.

The techniques already kick the shit out of the console's graphic cards, what do you think is going to happen when we have even more flashy cool shit going with 6 people all at the same time? Dont forget, even Blue Burst was really low on the graphical end of the spectrum, reserving the graphic card just for weapon effects. That's why Seabed and Jungle were pretty as hell but sucked to play on (on PC, mind you).

And of course, there would be the whiners. People who spent years getting that palette of 50% 10/10 weps and Line shields will all of a sudden become defunct as new synthing options are introduced.

TL;DR - Everything you said is nice and Id like it, except there's definetly going to be a lot of windfall on that one. Aside from PC, we can barely keep 60 fps as it is.

[Will_Nonheim]

Let's just hope the next console Phantasy Star itteration has this kind of stuff. >_> PSU won't get it ever, for sure, but that doesn't mean they can't do it for the next game.
I especially like your view on Kubaras there, because it's true they have very, very little relevance in this game these days in terms of, you know, cool factor.

[Kinako78]

(seriously, what the hell were they thinking letting PS2 in on PSU?).

They were thinking there were still a lot of PS2 players (in Japan) and that it would still sell well.

I'd also like to think they were being considerate of those (like me) who don't have a very high end PC, but that would be giving them too much credit.

That said, these ideas you posted are excellent and I agree with Special K that it would make for a great next-gen online Phantasy Star game. Maybe I'll even own a next-gen console/better computer by then. XD

[RemiusTA]

Remius, I love ya bro, but I'm going to have to shoot you down here.

Not only is Sonic Team too lazy/understaffed/shitty to retrograde the ENTIRE weapon and synthesis systems, it would take another expansion, if not just a PSU 2.

The techniques already kick the shit out of the console's graphic cards, what do you think is going to happen when we have even more flashy cool shit going with 6 people all at the same time? Dont forget, even Blue Burst was really low on the graphical end of the spectrum, reserving the graphic card just for weapon effects. That's why Seabed and Jungle were pretty as hell but sucked to play on (on PC, mind you).

And of course, there would be the whiners. People who spent years getting that palette of 50% 10/10 weps and Line shields will all of a sudden become defunct as new synthing options are introduced.

TL;DR - Everything you said is nice and Id like it, except there's definetly going to be a lot of windfall on that one. Aside from PC, we can barely keep 60 fps as it is.

The reason i focused on these things are mostly because they really aren't that graphic intensive at all.

Most of the special abilities i mentioned would only really require intelligent use of the particle effects already in the game data. With the exception of a few weapons in PSO, most of those effects were already used by another enemy, and if they wern't, the graphical additions were MINOR at best. It was the fact they took the time to implement them that was so neat.


But yeah, this WOULD require a new expansion, only for the implementation of another button added to the interface, Attacks using the SUV/Nanoblast gauge, and the added support for special weapons. I usually dont request Labor-intensive additions to games like this, but PSU is simply severely lacking things. These are just some of the things i would focus on were i in charge of development. I could have went on just as long about how the Enemies in PSO were oh-so much superior than PSU's as well based off AI. (What happened to the Nano Dragon, Pan Arms, Garnaz, Sinow-class enemies, Reconboxes, Delsabers, Slimes, deldepths, Beldras, Chaos mages, and all these enemies with AI that actually DIFFERED from one another in more ways than one? Level design and environments too. And dont get me STARTED on the soundtrack.

About the only thing superior in PSU is the collision detection, data handeling and polygon count. Its uglier, smaller, and less "expansive" than PSO in almost every way possible. Hell, there isnt a level in PSU to outdo the Episode 2 levels in PSO, let ALONE Episode 4. But, despite all these horrible flaws...here I am.


I simply can't stand the wasted potental in this game. Thats why i get a kick out of doing dumbass threads like this : /

[Legendria]

Hell, there isnt a level in PSU to outdo the Episode 2 levels in PSO, let ALONE Episode 4.

No.

Episode 4 was intensely hated for this reason alone (and the whole "One level in 4 directions" thing). Maybe the HIVE levels and most of Parum can't really do much better than EP 2, but Neudaiz mission areas look like they spent some time on it.

[RemiusTA]

No.

Episode 4 was intensely hated for this reason alone (and the whole "One level in 4 directions" thing). Maybe the HIVE levels and most of Parum can't really do much better than EP 2, but Neudaiz mission areas look like they spent some time on it.

I mostly was speaking on the Subterranean levels, which were by far better than any stage PSU owns. First playthrough of that level i was in gaming heaven :/

The problem with most of the PSU levels are that they ALL are too plain. This is double for the neudaiz temple missions and any indoor mission in the game. If you recollect on any indoor level in PSO (except for the VR stages I believe, but even those did better), they all had "landmark" rooms to break the monotony of the usual mapset for randomizing the duengons. Episode 2's stages (Control center branches, and seabed lab) counted very well for this. The Mines and Ruins also did a very good job with this.

In PSU, you just kind of run around these empty mapsets with completely empty rooms and almost no interaction outside Turrets and Enemies whatsoever. Its really kind of boring, and it gives you no feel of exploration or immersion in anywhere you go in this game. ESPICALLY the final stages. The AotI stages did a tad bit better, but obviously didn't try as hard. The ONLY stages in this game with ANY kind of feel of exploration are a FEW parum field stages (Duel in the Ruins specifically), the Rozenom stages, and the Habirao stages.

Theres nothing akin to the Jungle, Seaside, Mountains, Mines, Ruins, Seabed, caves, ANYTHING in this game. Even the PSO Knockoff stages suffer the exact same problem of completely boring level design. They sacrificed bigger levels for horrible level design.

Its usually not that HUGE of a problem thanks to the fighting, but it definately feels good to actually feel like you're accomplishing something while your running around. You can never tell the beginning or end of a level in this game -- everything looks the exact same.

[beatrixkiddo]

Explore the lobbies :3

[RemiusTA]

Pretty much. Im still dissapointed the Waterfall in Parum wasn't part of a level, it would have been quite epic.

[hunterseifer]

Me and my friends discuss this stuff alot, and alot of what you said is what we talk about, the game does needs some major changes...but the problem is that i doubt sega will do anything about it. Aside to supplemental update, i doubt they will do anything more. Theres a reason why PSO BB is still up. Its kind of dissapointing when you see a 46% svaltus outdamage a 34% 5/10 repca, only reason to have one is for looks on here :/

[NDW]

Electricity Class (Electric damage. I BELIEVE these could cause paralysis too.)

HP Reduction Class (Reduces a % of max enemy HP. I think one is 25% and other is 50%.)
- Devil
- Demon

Charge Class (Sacrifices meseta to significantly boost attack strength)
- Charge

Sacrifice Class (Sacrifices HP to significantly boost attack strength)
- Berserk
- Spirit
Electricity Class just deals elemental damage, no paralysis.
Devil's reduces enemy HP by 50% (25% for androids in Ultimate)
Demon's reduces enemy HP by 75% (45% for androids in Ultimate)
Charge is a part of the Sacrifice Class.
Spirit sacrifices TP for extra damage, not HP.

[pinkace]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

[Randomness]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Uh... no. Many more than that.

[Legendria]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Good job creating a drop rate out of thin air.

Regardless, only Double Cannon was worth the effort but actually having 2 Syncesta as well .....lol

That being said, the final bastion of Blue Burst has people finding some of the rarest things in a relatively legit manner. Granted, nothing on PSU (especially post-expansion) comes close, but your post missed its mark and instead makes you look like an elitist.

[Ceresa]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Lavis was 1/22 from the rare slime on Redria, 1/512 chance on that, so around 1/11000. It was also 1/12000 from 2 other IDs, and 1/18000 from many others. Even in V1-2 before the huge changes to drop charts it was 1/1,500,000ish. Most of the super rares had similar drop rates, this very site that you're at has all of the info in fact...

1 in 4 billion. Jesus Christ, get a clue.

[The_Brimada]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Though I agree with your first statement, the rest of it is very inaccurate.....

[Yunfa]

Its kind of dissapointing when you see a 46% svaltus outdamage a 34% 5/10 repca, only reason to have one is for looks on here :/

But what if you have a 46% 5/9 Agito Repca? EHHHH? *evil grin*

Back on topic: I can't help but to agree with OP here, those ideas sound really cool. But~ PSO only has Weapon special attacks over PSU, tech wise and everything else PSU has done a superb job. The only weapon I can think on top of my head in PSU that actually moves is the Germinus Gun when it shoots it extends longer & a few tech weapons.

Ohhh~ Wish I could do something similiar in PSU where as in PSO I was able to lower my health down with Lavis Cannon & spam the crap out of Olga Flow's "Kamehameha" wave attack.

OH AND DONT FORGET! PSO had a chance for corruption since everything was saved via memory card! I've had 12 Characters in PSO. One night the power went out when I was saving playing PSO and pffttt, memory card corruption, 4 characters lost. At least PSU doesn't have that sort of problem.

[Miyoko]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Actually, I had two... Found both of them legitly. One even has %hit on it. I still have one of the people I found it with on my AIM list, you can ask them for verification if you're really inclined to. >_>

[Powder Keg]

That's one important thing missing from PSU. How cool would it have been if you could shoot a sword wave out of a Svaltus Sword? Or that projectile that the Gaozoran uses out of the rod?

The things they could have added on top of what already exists in PSO could have been insane...

[Rust]

Well, I agree with you on that. Not specifically on how PSO rares were great and stuff, but PSU weapons are too plain. It would have been a little better if every weapon had a different appearance, but they even failed at that.

PSU might be the only hack'n slash game I know of that doesn't use the suffix/affix system for regular items. Hell, I think it would be welcome for armors to have some latent randomly generated abilities from a special ability pool.
After having played Diablo/DiabloII for years, and still being an hardcore D&D player, PSU items are feeling most tasteless.

[RemiusTA]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a

---> 1 in 4 billion chance of being found <-- HAHA WTF?



and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon.

The chance of getting struck by lightning is 1 : 285,000. So i guess that means the chance of aquiring a Lavis Cannon is about equal to the chance of be being struck by lightning 14,285 bolts of lightning at once?

Jokes aside, it really doesn't matter how rare it was. The point of me bringing it up is to show you that there used to be a game in the PS series that had GOOD rare weapons. You may be tired of hearing about how great PSO's rares were. I am too, but not because im hating on PSO, but because i'd like to say the same about PSU....



Well, I agree with you on that. Not specifically on how PSO rares were great and stuff, but PSU weapons are too plain. It would have been a little better if every weapon had a different appearance, but they even failed at that.Yeah PSO rares almost suffered the same problem as PSU's rares, but not NEARLY to the same degree. PSU seemed like it would have this amazing potental for all these awesome abilities, with having a SYNTHESIS system and all, but of course we all found it to be complete bullshit along with everything else advertised with this game. (WHERE IS MY TANK ,SEGA.)




That's one important thing missing from PSU. How cool would it have been if you could shoot a sword wave out of a Svaltus Sword? Or that projectile that the Gaozoran uses out of the rod?

The things they could have added on top of what already exists in PSO could have been insane...


Yeah, i completely overlooked the Svaltus sword and the fact they swing those annoing slash waves at you. Unfortunally this game didnt get much effort past "playable", so....

[pinkace]

Uh... no. Many more than that.


Good job creating a drop rate out of thin air.


1 in 4 billion. Jesus Christ, get a clue.


Though I agree with your first statement, the rest of it is very inaccurate.....


I was exaggerating!!! If I would have said 18 trillion would it have been more obvious?

I would like to know who here found a Lavis on PSO DC.

[Inazuma]

To the OP: You seem like a really smart person and have some awesome ideas. I hope you do become a game designer someday.

As for the off topic discussion of rares being *gasp* rare in PSO, I think it's a good thing. It took me literally 6 months (400 hours, 160 Mill Lillies) to find Psycho Wand but it was totally worth it. PSU really sucks when it comes to items.

[Powder Keg]

I was exaggerating!!! If I would have said 18 trillion would it have been more obvious?

I would like to know who here found a Lavis on PSO DC.

No one did on DC, beause I'm almost positive it was unobtainable along with the Psycho Wand and the Heaven Punisher.

[garjian]

To the OP: You seem like a really smart person and have some awesome ideas. I hope you do become a game designer someday.



really? are you really saying you couldnt come up with this stuff...

ive done loads of stuffs like this... and noones ever said that to me :<


On topic though... yeah... its a nice idea... yeah... the combats nothing special... and yeah... the rares arent rare or special... but...
whats sega really gonna do... theyd have to make at least 10 basic sword meshes that i could do in 10minutes for each... then theyd have to come up with a way for them to be weird and exciting...
THEN theyd have to not make them drop from every monsters on a 500000000000000% rare drop rate boost mission during an event...

how do you expect them to do that? its only sega... everyone knows all there actual employees quit years ago... and now all thats left is the cleaner and his sock puppet friend, Jeff.

sega wont change a thing... especially not to this degree...just attack was a huge move by their standards and even that managed to pretrty much break the entire game... well-fucking-done Jeff...

[Icecold]

This is an interesting topic. Just a few thoughts I had while reading....

As fas as implementing the extra attack, you wouldn't necessarily need another button. You could just have it on the weapon. For a melee weapon, it would be where your PA would normally be when it's not linked. Heck, you could throw weapons into the game that had their own unique PA. And for guns, there is already an open button. Hmm, I didn't think about tech weapons til just now, maybe just have it as one of your spell slots.

One weapon I thought would be cool is a protranser only nade launcher that launches EX traps. That'd be pretty fun, imo.

[Darius_Drake]

No one did on DC, beause I'm almost positive it was unobtainable along with the Psycho Wand and the Heaven Punisher.

Yeah, I played the DC version and never found a soul that had found a Lavis, Psycho, or Heaven. When I played on the Xbox version I was able to trade for the Heaven's Punisher. Do remember we had those color coded Id's and could only find certain rare's that were linked to them. That meant that you had to either alter your name to get the id necessary to hunt your desired weapon or you were forced to get the best rare's you could that were tied to your id and trade with others.

[LuigiMario]

Here's a question. Out of curiousity.....

Why type all that if SEGA is not even going to bother reading it?

All that sounds good so you should email it too them as well. Email it to as much branches as possible. See what happens. Maybe a miracle would happen.

[RemiusTA]

Sadly everyone i could Email it to speaks english. SoJ are the only ones who have any pull over what happens in this game. Im under the impression they only include us to make us not feel completely left out.



As fas as implementing the extra attack, you wouldn't necessarily need another button.Well, the point of having it as a seperate button to toggle is because not every Extra Attack would be something you'd want to spam constantly as it'd get you killed / kill you itself. That, and every extra attack isnt effective against every enemy in the game -- thats why it was "extra".


For a melee weapon, it would be where your PA would normally be when it's not linked. Heck, you could throw weapons into the game that had their own unique PA. And for guns, there is already an open button. Hmm, I didn't think about tech weapons til just now, maybe just have it as one of your spell slots. Yeah Icecold, that "weapons with built-in PA's" idea was also something i thought of. If they wern't going to add Extra Attacks, they could have easily allowed certian weapons (meaning almost all of them above A-rank level) to have their own optional PA's with custom Modifiers and effects to them. THAT, on the other hand, is something that Sonic Team could put into the game WITHOUT an expansion -- the ability to give weapons "Extra Photon Arts".

For example, take an S-rank Sword. Kan Yu or something. Lets say they gave it an Extra PA that did nothing but the Final Swing of Tornado Break with reduced damage. That would simply give the Kan Yu another potental reason to have in your inventory -- crowd control. It may not be powerful as the full PA itself, but its still something DIFFERENT. And if you didn't want to use it, you could always just equip the real tornado break or something else.

Carrigune Ructar - an Extra PA that did the Final Combo of Absolute Dance with increased ATP Mod

Tiga De Ragan - the final slash attack of Splendor Crush? Increased Dmg?

Psycho Wand - Extra version of Megid that does no damage but has higher chance of Death and travels faster? (PSO megid lolz)

Svaltus Sword - A slash of Gravity Break that emits that wave the Svaltus spams at you?


If nothing else would work, something like ^ ^ ^ That definately could work. Hell, they added the ability to Just Attack with nothing but a server-side patch. It wouldn't require half as much programming, and could work just as well as the other ideas. And if any of the ideas are too broken, just give them retarded PP requirements to limit the spamability of them. Its almost perfect.



Edit: WOW, they could even give super retarded powerful Extra PA's that takes more PP than the weapon even has at its current grind. Oh say, it forces you to grind the weapon to 5/xx before you are even able to use it, and it depletes all your PP at once. (Although thats a HORRIBLE idea now, thanks to that stupid fucking "LOL PAY ME $$$ AND SONIC TEAM WILL GRIND FOR YOU" idea.)

[sovalou]

NO....

keep PSO stuff on PSO

[RemiusTA]

...Seriously?

Perhaps you should learn to read before you make assumptions.

[Rust]

NO....

keep PSO stuff on PSO

This is not a PSO concept.
PSO was even far from using that basic hack'n slash game mechanic to its full potential.

[sovalou]

why even bother when this article falls upon death ears anyways so why should i waste my time. NONE of this stuff would ever be implemented anyways. Its not like SEGA of america would take advice from its player base anyways, i advise you keep your dreams to yourself before you hurt yourself in the long run by getting your hopes up. :/

[WhiteKnight01]

hmm the next time my internet is down for a while im going to get out my pso and replay it, this time il have a idea what im doing

[RemiusTA]

why even bother when this article falls upon death ears anyways so why should i waste my time. NONE of this stuff would ever be implemented anyways. Its not like SEGA of america would take advice from its player base anyways, i advise you keep your dreams to yourself before you hurt yourself in the long run by getting your hopes up. :/

LOL you aren't talking to a 12 year old, mkay? This is no "DREAM" of mine, just some topic I decided to start off a whim. I know what the deal is and how these things work, so your pessimism doesn't apply here. I never said any of this was going to be implemented. Hell, i didn't even plan on sending this shit to SEGA.

However, if for some reason I do, i already know the chance of it being considered is slim, let alone even being read.

And for future reference, Don't think you're doing the world an enlightning favor by telling people which of their "dreams" to give up, just because the chances of it ever happening are extremely low or seemingly impossible. You may think yourself a "realist", but in truth is just kind of annoying to listen to.


tl;dr, this was for PSOW, not SEGA.



hmm the next time my internet is down for a while im going to get out my pso and replay it, this time il have a idea what im doing

Yeaaaahhh....I may have made it sound really good, but in PSO the system used for Extra Attack never really felt like it weighed too heavily on anything. The point was that it was a REALLY good idea, compared to other games which drop weapons with minor stat boosts on them.

So unless you're using Charge Mechguns to drop bosses in seconds, i dont think it'll change your PSO experience too much lol...just check you rare weapons to see what their special attack did.

[Legendria]

I may have made it sound really good, but in PSO the system used for Extra Attack never really felt like it weighed too heavily on anything. The point was that it was a REALLY good idea, compared to other games which drop weapons with minor stat boosts on them.

So unless you're using Charge Mechguns to drop bosses in seconds, i dont think it'll change your PSO experience too much lol...just check you rare weapons to see what their special attack did.

My S-Rank Hell Needle would like to have a word with you.

[RemiusTA]

Lol well of course there were a few exceptions...like those S-Rank weapons that were specifically for customizing.

...That oddly PSU left out on also...

[MadDogg]

I wish people would stop talking about how great rare weapons on PSO were.

Why?

because none of you ever FOUND a Lavis. That weapon had a 1 in 4 billion chance of being found, and everyone talks as if they were so intimate with the weapon. Honestly, if the game was played legit-ly by everyone, counting all three console versions' total population, there would have been about 100 Lavis's found TOTAL for the entire duration of all three games.

same goes for all the other rare weapons to a lower degree.

Ummmm I found a lavis cannon. Redria ID, solo'ing towards the future online as my lvl 170ish hunewearl. Off the pouilly slime. Badboy was 15% dark still in it's special form, tekked it out so it came out 0/0/0/25. Its long gone now, because my xbox's dvd drive died so I traded the xbox in, but yeah, a good bit of people actually found a lavis, all you had to do was spam towards the future on and off till' you get a red slime, and pray you get it.

And yeah, I miss the extra attack button. Shooting waves with the lavis weapons and oritiagito is like the coolest thing in the world to do.

[PALRAPPYS]

Skimmed it really fast.

I still like PSU more than PSO. I played PSO a few weeks back, and it was really boring. Fighting is too bland and slow. TP sucks compared to PP because spells cost too much to use, even though TECHNICs must be used on TECHNIC weapons in PSU.

PSU needs better and more unique weapons though. That is true.

[RemiusTA]

Skimmed it really fast.

I still like PSU more than PSO. I played PSO a few weeks back, and it was really boring. Fighting is too bland and slow. TP sucks compared to PP because spells cost too much to use, even though TECHNICs must be used on TECHNIC weapons in PSU.

PSU needs better and more unique weapons though. That is true.

Oh, well I wasn't really comparing PSU to PSO, only their combat depth.

That said, i really dont know which combat i enjoy more in PSO. The time i spent playing PSO, I dont think I ever really missed any Photon Arts or anything that PSU has. (Except for the ability to change direction while attacking, and a few times i tried to strafe lol)

PSO's combat doesn't feel slow or boring to me because the game itself doesn't require that much to feel fast and exciting.

When it DOES come to PSO, PSU's main problem is simple. You do too much of the same thing too often, regardless of where you are. Dodging Barta is the exact same thing as dodging Grants, Foie, Zonde, Megid, and everything else they shoot at you. Sidestepping a Koltova is the same as sidestepping everything else that charges you. Moving away from a robot to escape its self destruct gets pretty automatic after an hour or two of playing. About the ONLY enemies in PSU that forces you to actually think / be afraid are the Svaltus and the Bil De Vear. Oh yeah, and those enemies that force you to attack them from behind to deal damage.

They DO, however, have fixes for this. They can either improve the AI of the enemies, or improve the variety of ways you're forced to dispatch of them. Melee/range/technic resistance does a good job of this, but im talking more in the range of specific weakpoints and patterns. Delsabers, Beldras, Garnaz, Dubchics, Sinow Robots. All enemies that changed how you fought in a room. The Extra Attack idea was simply to make weapons feel less like tools of stat whoring and more like weapons. Most people care less about the stats of a weapon than the looks.

That said, aquiring a 15* handgun that is nothing but an average model with nice stats and no different ANYTHING is more than a dissapointment...its just kind of sad. Sort of an injustice, even.


Edit: FACK i just noticed how big the first post was. God why did i write all that shit ><

[Ranmo]

It would be nice if there was some more depth in the game. Though I have to say I am not complaining I like how the game is already, but I wouldn't mind the game being more in-depth. Would make it somewhat more exciting

[AlphaDragoon]

*laughs hysterically at the person saying Lavis odds were 1/1 billion*

Even if you were trying to make a point, just...no. I had 2 legit ones, a tekked one in GC and an untekked (read: uneffingstoppable) one in BB.

It wasn't THAT bad to get, it's just not ultimate rubbish like PSU rares where anyone can easily get anything due to player shops and such. And the Lavis wasn't even close to Sealed J-Sword/Tsumikiri J-Sword or Lame D'Argent/Excalibur's ridiculously high drop rate and or unseal process. Hell, the Kusanagi was MUCH harder to get than a Lavis, if you were a Redria.

Oh, and by the way I wholeheartedly support and endorse everything Remius said in his original posts. Rare weapons need to be actually rare, and they need to have their own identity outside of "lol it has more ATP/PP". While we're at it, can we also drop the clear-cut Photon colors on EVERY weapon? Why the eff does Segac care that everyone knows what element your weapon is at forty paces? What happened to weapons with awesome post-effects that actually looked unique and cool, like the GC/BB Flowen's Sword and the Kusanagi, or full-metal designs like Zanba, Tsumikiri J-Sword and Last Survivor? Why does Lavis Cannon HAVE to be dark element? Why can't it, you know, just be purple?

[Arika]

They can do it like some fighting game where you could press X and Y together to make unique attack (in this case, extra attack) so that you don't need to waste any extra button or extra PA slot just for a few weapons that capable of doing so.

Anyway, I have been thinking about extra attack for a long time, but I think that they can't use PSO extra attack system really. it is very imbalance. 80-90% of extra attack types are useless. They can change it in so many ways, but I have my own way that I prefer too..

Instead of doing in PSO styles where most extra attack just look the same as normal (excepts few super rare items which is not even balance to each other). It is better and easier to just unleash full potential of the each weapon. (such as bankai in beach, but not as epic as that. I m fine only if they change Crimson to have no fire. and then the fire is turn on for 60 sec duration when you press X+Y. During this time, every attack from this saber will have lv 3 burn SE, at the cost of automatic reduce 5 PP per sec.) Blackheart can do the same thing by unleash shinny effect only when you use this ability which allow you add up critical rate or something. Oh well, actually they can do this to every S rank weapons that already have cool graphic without any much extra effort. (since they don't need to add any extra motion, and no need any extra graphic) And for the weapon without shinny graphic, they can just make the photon on that weapon turn blink when the ability is in use.

If they could add unique attack motion/PA for some specific weapons like what you say also, that would be even better. However, the harder work they need, the less chance it is likely to happen. so I think that it is too hard to hope.

Anyway, It is better to do something than do nothing. I think that you should post this in official forum (we have "suggestion section" there), and might even better. there is a suggestion box in JP site somewhere that I link with Espiokaos for my Masterforce idea before. (only if you could write JP)

[Wayu]

I agree with Arika. Sort of.

One problem about the X+Y thing is that some PCs do not allow you to press some buttons simutaneously. My computer doesn't seem to like the Up+Down+Left Combo, for example, forcing me to use the Hold function for Weapon switch in order to strafe with left-handed weapons. A major pain in the arse.

The Crimson idea sounds great. Blackheart's sounds kinda weird, though. It fits the weapon, but not the shiny-shiny effect. Maybe the rare weapons could have some kind of passive effect. Kinda like the Deva-zashi, which has a pretty high chance to Silence the target.

Certain weapons with unique attack combos...sounds great, but Sega would have to make quite a few of them in order for it to work. But then again, those weapons would have to be insanely beastly, and I would expect them to have a unique PA locked to that one weapon or something.
One example could be...uh...since Arika mentioned Bleach, Zangetsu's Shikai form or something. Unique PA could be Getsuga Tenshou.
Another one may be the First Tsuguri, with the unique ability to switch between Twin Sabers, Single Saber, and Sword.
A TECHNIC weapon could have a unique TECHNIC set on it. I just don't have any ideas for a good one. Meteor? Holy? Rexcalibur?
For a gun, it could be, like, Barret's gunarm or Cerebus or a Plasma Rifle or something. Master Chief helmet for an R-MAG?

And the list could go on. Then again, the problem would be the animation (probably a unique one) and making sure that the weapon isn't a game breaker.

Or make enemies a helluva lot stronger. But it probably isn't gonna happen until the next Phantasy Star.

Back to the main topic. I personally only used the Charge and Sieze Extra Attacks in PSO. I never got those beastly Heaven Punishers or anything, seeing as I was a FOnewearl laughing while blasting the stuffing out of stuff with Rafoie while my brother just sat back and bugged me.

One last thing: if PSU had actual UNIQUE weapons. As in, only one in the whole darn system. They could make a huge (and I mean huge) mission against one ridiculously powerful enemy (RPE for short) with various parties in different blocks hunting down the darn thing. Basically, Monster Hunter while hoping the one particular RPE gets into your area while constantly being harrased by strong mods. Not feasible, but it would be fun. And in the end, the guys that manage to kill the RPE get the drops of the thing. (PVP competition?)

[GH499]

Lavis was 1/22 from the rare slime on Redria, 1/512 chance on that, so around 1/11000. It was also 1/12000 from 2 other IDs, and 1/18000 from many others. Even in V1-2 before the huge changes to drop charts it was 1/1,500,000ish. Most of the super rares had similar drop rates, this very site that you're at has all of the info in fact...

1 in 4 billion. Jesus Christ, get a clue.
. He might refer to DC version, because I think Lavis Cannon was one of the rarest item there.
Excalibur was also very hard to obtain at the beginning of PSOBB. the drop rate was too hard back then and then was adjusted later .

[RemiusTA]

If they could add unique attack motion/PA for some specific weapons like what you say also, that would be even better. However, the harder work they need, the less chance it is likely to happen. so I think that it is too hard to hope.

Anyway, It is better to do something than do nothing. I think that you should post this in official forum (we have "suggestion section" there), and might even better. there is a suggestion box in JP site somewhere that I link with Espiokaos for my Masterforce idea before. (only if you could write JP)

Well, they would have to reprogram some things, but they wouldn't have to implement any new animations, only paste together ones that already exist.

For instance, the idea with the Svaltus sword and the shooting wave? Give it a custom PA (only avaliable to you while equipped) that does the last Gravity Break slash that doesn't do damage, but instead shoots a wave that does damage. They wouldn't have to make a new animation, only alter some data so it'll work. For the Force idea of extra weapons, they would only have to alter existing technic data to make it work. If they WANTED they could change some things around (Rafoie with some lightning in it lol), but the effect is what counts. Your idea would work pretty well too. I think theres only one item that has any kind of special effect like that, and its the Frying Pan weapon that inflicts random burn. The 2-headed ragnus WOULD be alot cooler if it had an option to "Turn on the fire" lol. In fact alot of weapons would be cooler with the ability to "turn the photon on".


Besides, this game has PLENTY of unused animations -- hell, there are enemies that use animations we dont! Since the rouge enemies have the exact same models as our characters do, they can definatley work for us. They just have to program them. If you havent noticed...

-They have dodge roll animations, both to the side and front.
-They have melee animations for wands, rifles, and grenade launchers (maybe more)
-Axe users have a combo that includes animations that even players dont use, either in their real combo or all their PA's.
- Crouch + shoot animations for rifles and bows
- different casting animations for technic weapons

They could use all these towards extra attacks. For all we know there could be more. But in order to create new attacks, there is no need for new animations, only clever use of current ones. PSO did it very well without the need of new animations, and PSU can do it even better, seeing as every striking weapon has no fewer than 4 extra combo animations, the highest count being around 12 animations for one weapon! (swords, for example, have the regular combo and 3 PA's that gain 3 combos)

Technics could just be altered in speed and special effects. I wanna see Barta move at the lightning speed it did at Lv 26-30 from PSO. Or maybe a giant Diga that collides and creates a Rafoie effect lol

[AlphaDragoon]

I actually had a thought about how they could do it the lazy (AKA the Segac) way for certain rares, just make that rare have a unique PA that you can only use when it is equipped. For example, the Lavis Cannon's beam slashes.

I'd much prefer Remius's method, but with this they could implement it into the current system.

[Erkthemerc]

Is it that the rare weps dont have effects that make them feel rare or is it that the weps themselves are not rare enough?

I vote that we make all "S" rank wep can not be sold in player shops like the spheres from the past events. Then we would have to work for our rare weps rather than buy them from other people.

Idk it might help out with the over population of "S" rank weps and such...

[RemiusTA]

I actually had a thought about how they could do it the lazy (AKA the Segac) way for certain rares, just make that rare have a unique PA that you can only use when it is equipped. For example, the Lavis Cannon's beam slashes.

I'd much prefer Remius's method, but with this they could implement it into the current system.

...thats EXACTLY what i explained like a page ago lol.

But yeah, that would be the simple and effective way of doing it.

[OmegaTomHanks]

blame the world's monetary system for preventing companies to share their ideas together. in the long run sega cares about money which is why it sucks compared to PSO. to save money

[RemiusTA]

Sorry, but after Shadow the Hedgehog, i wouldn't want to share ideas with Sega of America either.

[Calsetes]

So.... I'm probably the only one here who actually tries to take different weapons of the same style in with me into battle in PSU, right?

Yeah, having 6 Pakudas makes you seem cool and all, but I don't need any motivation to take this along with me as my main class / weapons (as an example):

Fortefighter:

1 De Ragan Slayic (since I'm too poor for a Slayer)
1 Kan Yu
1 Apocalypse / 1 Varista (probably swapped out for my new Ruby Bullet)
1 Blackheart / 1 Python
1 Tiga De Ragac
1 Two-Headed Ragnus

Yeah, damage on them isn't amazing (especially since they're all unground), but it gives me enough variety in the game to be happy. Then again, I'm from the school of thought where you don't need overpowered rares to make a game good. If they added a bunch of this stuff to the game (which like others said they won't do, as it'd require WAY too big an overhaul), it would quite literally completely unhinge the gameplay even more than it is now.

They could do a few small things that would still keep people interested in these "rares" in the game here that would require a lot less coding -

1. Give two-headed ragnuses level 1 burn. They're on fire, make them light enemies ablaze.

2. De Ragan Slayer - there's a set bonus already for it, why not let it do a bit more damage to De Ragan or, if that's too hard, make it ice only, and give it level 1 freeze at a low chance.

3. Germinus Gun - the name kind of gives me an idea, make it have a low-level poison effect (not virus, as that's obtained via bullets).

That's just a small example of expanding on what they've already done in-game, and theoretically would be more doable in that sense. If having "special abilities" on rare items made everyone ant them, then why does no double-saber-wielders use Sweet Death, which puts enemies to sleep when they use them?



As a side note, as for the rarity of finding them and all, I just have this to say:

I found a Durandal in the old old Version 1 Dreamcast PSO, and it had quite literally NO special looks or abilities (that I could remember), aside from the blade switched from green to..... yellow, I think? That made me happy enough to use it. In fact, after I found that, I pretty much used nothing else except that, and maybe a Varista (which again looked the exact same as every other handgun except the "photon parts" changed colors). Never did see anyone with a Lavis on the original, but I did see one person with a Heaven's Punisher on either Dreamcast V1 or Gamecube, but was pretty certain he hacked it, as he had that air of an ass to him (joined a Normal difficulty game at level 100, wouldn't stop killing everything before I hit it, and when asked to slow down a bit, gave me a "screw you, I do what I want" answer). I did get a Lavis myself though, legitimately. Took a long time though.

[Rust]

So.... I'm probably the only one here who actually tries to take different weapons of the same style in with me into battle in PSU, right?

I actually only keep one copy of each weapon, so I always use different ones in-game.
But even that doesn't prevent me from feeling like every saber is the same or every gun is the same. Really, besides a skin change (and sometimes even barely) and higher stats (which I don't give a crap for), I can't tell the difference between a Beamgun and a Storm...

[Kinako78]

Yeah, damage on them isn't amazing (especially since they're all unground), but it gives me enough variety in the game to be happy. Then again, I'm from the school of thought where you don't need overpowered rares to make a game good.

A man after my own heart! :D

This is why I hate everyone bitching about this game being too easy after they chose to be Fortefighter or any other overpowered class in the first place (no offense, Calsetes, as you're an exception). I feel like telling them, "Try being an Acrotecher or Wartecher and then see if you still think it's too easy! Better yet, try being a Newman melee fighter! That'll give you some challenge right there! (Speaking from experience)"

[Zivilyn Bane]

I do miss the extra attack option, but I feel like the photon arts and precise timing attacks have essentially replaced those functions. One thing I have to say I am glad to say was updated from PSO to PSU is directional combat.

I threw my DC and v.2 together over the weekend and decided to play around with it for the nostalgic feel, and I have to say the combat overhaul for PSU is hard to step back from. I'd forgotten about the fact that once you start your melee chain, there is no changing direction. That makes it really easy to get yourself jimmied.

I have to say, in the original I found myself preferring swords and slicers because my enemies would tend to wander, and those weapons tended to compensate on their own for that. Now that I can change directions more readily, I find myself using spears, sabers, and daggers a lot more.

I will agree that the PSO rare weaponry have a much larger cool factor than the newer weapons. I find myself collecting things like the Varista and Durandal Replica, wishing there were similarly styled new weapons AND that the old weapons all carried over. My favorite being the Infernal Bazooka.

[rayner]

One of the reasons I'm not playing PSU anymore is because of the lack of cool weapons, and after reading this post I feel like firing up PSO again :-) When you found that really sweet weapon in PSO it felt like you found something RARE. Though the only aspect that meant anything on Weapons was % to Hit... I had this L&K Combat with 40% to hit and I had a HuCaseal that would tear it up like no other. I was in the process of getting 2 of the other attributes to 100% with Photon Drops. haha!

When I was playing PSO I though about how it would be cool if your Techs would level-up the more you used them. It seemed like a great idea at the time, but how wrong I was. Especially if a tech was situational... spamming the Polty room for hours just to level-up my techs was the final straw... I was like what the hell am I doing? Why am I playing this?

Also PP on a weapon was a bad idea, it would have worked much better as a Race / Class / Gender attribute... I always found it irritating that I had 3 of the same weapons on my pallet, just different elements :-(

[RemiusTA]

theres nothing wrong with using them to power them up, only the large gaps between the physical changes in the technics. The damage upgrade is fine and dandy, but its the form of the technic that makes it stronger.

They should have added inbetween changes that add up into the Lv 11+/21+/31+/41+ changes, like PSO did. Having to stomach a weak ass technic until it instantly changes is pretty lame.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

A man after my own heart! :D

This is why I hate everyone bitching about this game being too easy after they chose to be Fortefighter or any other overpowered class in the first place (no offense, Calsetes, as you're an exception). I feel like telling them, "Try being an Acrotecher or Wartecher and then see if you still think it's too easy! Better yet, try being a Newman melee fighter! That'll give you some challenge right there! (Speaking from experience)"

I think I'm pretty much done fighting for a while on my newman, but I thought it was a little too easy after AOTI came out. Staying on Gunmaster for a while and that's a bit harder, but good shotgun and bullets make up for it.

[Mewnie]

I'm a little insulted by the bullshit rhetoric that OMG RARES HAVE TO BE RARE
That doesn't benefit anyone but the shut-ins that park their ass in front of the TV/monitor for eighteen hours a day.

I don't think the high-grade weapons in PSU (aside from Elysion- but that's the PSU equivalent of a quest reward) need to be more rare, there's enough that if Sonic Team were motivated enough to actually add special attacks to them, there'd be more incentive to use some of the ones that are marginally harder to aqquire.

(Also, I hate Agito Repca, as it's a weaboo's wet dream (OMG KATANA), but that's another story >:3 )

[Kinako78]

I think I'm pretty much done fighting for a while on my newman, but I thought it was a little too easy after AOTI came out. Staying on Gunmaster for a while and that's a bit harder, but good shotgun and bullets make up for it.

Yeah I made my newman a Guntecher recently and I do see how that is a bit more challenging then melee.


(Also, I hate Agito Repca, as it's a weaboo's wet dream (OMG KATANA), but that's another story >:3 )

As far as swords, I like Kan Yu a lot more then Agito. I never found an Agito, but it's not on my to-do list. Yeah, it's a katana, but it still look so plain compared to Kan Yu.

[Zivilyn Bane]

I'm a little insulted by the [expletive] rhetoric that OMG RARES HAVE TO BE RARE
That doesn't benefit anyone but the shut-ins that park their ass in front of the TV/monitor for eighteen hours a day.

That's a bit excessive. I played PSO a lot, but I had a full time job, friends, you know, a real social life, but I still had a great time and really enjoyed getting to the point where I started finding the real rares instead of the VARISTA, VJAYA, and CROSS SCARs.

Finding rare and unique weapons is one of the main reasons to play these types of games. Think anyone would have kept playing Diablo if it hadn't been for the uniques? Otherwise the game gets repetitive. In-game Collectibles are an excellent addition, and you can't fault the people for wanting them. I don't care if they're überpowerful or not anymore, I just wish that there were more cool looking rare weapons.

[gum_on_shoe]

When I was playing PSO I though about how it would be cool if your Techs would level-up the more you used them. It seemed like a great idea at the time, but how wrong I was. Especially if a tech was situational... spamming the Polty room for hours just to level-up my techs was the final straw... I was like what the hell am I doing? Why am I playing this?

No one forced you to power level your spells. You could have just used them till they level up? And if you say it takes too long to level by use, I hope to god that you don't think this game is too easy.

Also how is power leveling different than spaming ruins for high level spells?

[Calsetes]

I never liked the Repca either. I wanted one, because I heard it was really good (like strength-wise), but after getting one, then finding out it has to be ground to a certain point to be LIKE and S-rank in strength, then failing 3 times getting it to +4 (where it actually has S-like power), I just said "screw it" and sold it off to some random person who made my day by buying it for 40 mil (thank you, kind stranger!)

I personally like running around with my Flowen's + and my Chainsawd+ as my Fighmaster (which I hate using on my main).

[rayner]

No one forced you to power level your spells. You could have just used them till they level up? And if you say it takes too long to level by use, I hope to god that you don't think this game is too easy.

Also how is power leveling different than spaming ruins for high level spells?

This is where balance issues come into effect, you could level your Alts during events... only your character level won't reflect in your Tech levels. Also any techs that have situational uses are basically useless unless you power-level them.

The game was not always easy, once AoI came out it went into easy-mode. Having a Female Newman Fortetecher you can't solo very well, especially if you are trying to level your Gi-techs.

[Waki Miko Syamemaru!]

Yea I mean I really don't feel like a complete badass with the higher tier weapons. I just view them as "Pretty looking things to kill stuff with". In PSO if you had an Agito you were like a freakin madman hacking through hordes of enemies and still had enough time to gloat over the bodies of your enemies. Hell some of the super rare shotguns had a completely different attack than usual like that Falz shotgun that shot those piercing beams. That was freakin awesome. I'd like to see some of that if Segac ever decides on another PSO game (I've givin up on such coolness to hit PSU and in fact hoping for a completely different PSO game).

[RemiusTA]

well, in PSU you start feeling like a true badass when your PAs/bullets/technics get over that 21 mark, and it only goes uphill from there. However, forces have been utterly stripped of that pleasure, and hunters dont get visual updates past 21. The weapons is where this gap is supposed to be filled.


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BTW guys, i'd just like to call a big BS on those comments i made about PSU and its Monster classes....The enemies in psu are more than decent. In fact, i noticed most giant mechanical enemies (Sinow Hidokwhatever) almost have the exact same moves as the Sinow Beats / ect, just minus invisibility / copy move or whatever. Where PSO had a bunch of enemies that have epic moves to change up the place, the enemies in PSU change up the pace with their Weight Class and varied AI / movesets. For instance, the Kogg Nad enemy with retarded HP, spike skin (touching that enemy damages you, i never noticed that), but 3 hitboxes. Defeating that monster as a Force is hard work unless you have Nosdiga / Burn status effect.


In fact, through my 360 playthrough of this game, ive come to notice the Environments arent bad at all either. Ive grown a new liking for the environments i NEVER could have enjoyed on PS2 (Yeah, i played on max specs on PC, but i never really paid attention to anything other than the smooth framerate.)

The music still is nowhere close to PSO, but the environments did have ALOT of detail put into them....just not in the same places. Where PSO spared no time putting in rooms that catch your eye in specific places, PSU's levels were just made generally more open. That doesnt explain the empty and boring indoor levels, but the outdoor levels in this game are really nice looking.



Still think PSO/PSU are two similar but different games...but yeah rares still suck in PSU lol