Any class you think could use an update???

[Chunky McMunky]

write which class you think could do with a few improvements or downprovements (wth???) and say why

i was thinking that wartecher could use an improvement

i was playing psu for like 4 hours today and i didnt see a single wartecher, so i checked to see what was wrong with wartecher and i saw that it had so few s ranks, and the s rank weapons it did have (in my opinion) werent that great, the only thing i can see as the redeeming feature of wartecher is that its pa levels are really good. it seems to me that if you wanna go wartecher then you might as well go with acrotecher.

[Halcyote]

inafterWartecher.

Seriously, it's always going to be the same few classes: Wartecher, Guntecher, and some sort of Force class (FT, MT).

[ashley50]

Hunter, Ranger and Force classes.

That way, 偲ぶ can do the full combo of Dus Majarra

[Ezodagrom]

All classes except Fighmaster and Fortefighter got an update on JP.
The one that got the biggest boost was Wartecher, it got a boost on ATP, ATA, DFP, EVP, MST and TP, plus A rank Double Sabers.
The classes that got the worst boosts were Fortetecher and Acrofighter. ^^;

The boosts were the following ones:

Fighgunner:
ATP - 154% -> 170%

Guntecher:
ATP - 116% -> 150%

Wartecher:
ATP - 132% -> 160%
ATA - 110% -> 130%
TP - 132% -> 150%
DFP - 146% -> 150%
EVP - 180% -> 200%
MST - 150% -> 180%

Fortefighter:
No Change

Fortegunner:
ATP - 140% -> 170%

Fortetecher:
EVP - 200% -> 210%

Protranser:
ATP - 130% -> 160%
ATA - 120% -> 140%

Acrofighter:
ATP - 144% -> 152%

Acrotecher:
ATP - 116% -> 132%
TP - 150% -> 152%

Fighmaster:
No Change

Gunmaster:
ATP - 136% -> 150%

Masterforce:
HP - 85% -> 100%
TP - 152% -> 175%
EVP - 100% -> 230%

[WHlTEKNIGHT]

psu needs a update

[Mikura]

I'm sad there is no change to Fortefighter or Fighmaster. I demand an increase in ATP, HP, and DFP so we can breathe on enemies to kill them. As it is now, I have to go through the trouble of lifting my finger to flick them off.

[Magus_84]

Between the stat changes, the system changes (Just Counters are invincible and uninterruptible), the customizations (Just Counter Damage +, Just Attack Damage +, PA level +, etc)...most classes that aren't FM/FF are getting a HYOOG power boost from the Supplemental update.

WT and GT greatly benefit from stat increases and PA level + increases in the update, as the latter actually lets them specialize. Fi and FG benefit from massive ATP increases and the PA+, allowing them to further increase their specialties and better cover their weak areas. PT's an all-around good class that becomes far better once it gets the ATA/ATP boost and the PA+'s allowing it to have both up to 40 melee and 50 bullets.

FF and FM were borderline broken anyway, and the increases in damage mods to most non-Majarra, non-Jabroga PAs will still benefit them. GM gets a big ATP boost that it probably didn't need (it's even with GT's new mod). AF gets modest stat boosts, but the changes to Just Counter and the upgrades to melee PAs in general make EVP an actual asset now. AT gets a minor stat boost, but probably benefits the most from the PA cap increases, as it can use full Twin Dagger combos, get the "less interruptible" benefits of 21 whips and gets the juicy stat increases of the 20-21 threshold on most bullets. The Just Counter stuff'll help too.

MF goes from a class only for masochists to one of the better classes in the game at taking on multiple enemies. It gets massive stat boosts in EVP and HP, along with a boost in TP. Gi-techs get sped up overall, but they also gain high (SE5) SE levels after 41. Diga and Foie can hit multiple enemies, and with the basic tech Limit Breaks, they can hit multiple spots on the same enemy. Techs overall get a damage mod boost, as well. It even gains the ability to increase its support tech cap to 20, meaning it can finally match buff items.

So...the super-powerful get a tangential boost (or outright steroid injections in the case of GM). The hybrids get cleaned up and boosted. The Acros get slight boosts and the benefit of EVP no longer being as much of a liability to melee. WT, the game's perennial bitch, gets massive stat boosts in all areas, and the PA+ means it might actually be able to pick one of the thousand things it can do to actually be better than mediocre at. All in all, seems great for everyone.

Someone's missing there, though. >_>

Oh yeah, FT. They... get an EVP boost to match AT's EVP? Which is now less than MF's.

They lack the ATP to take advantage of the level 20 melee/level 40 bullets the PA+ will give them access to. They lack the Limit Breaks that MF gets, which combined with their lol ATP means they still don't have a good big-enemy option. They can get up to level 50 offensive techs with Tech Level +...but MF has more TP and a cast speed boost. Also, MF has better EVP now, meaning that even if a FT wants to negate the MF casting advantage by spamming Just-Countered Dam-techs, a MF will do it better.

Not that anyone really cares (including me, despite how it may sound), as if you want nuking shiny enough to overawe everything else with half-decent support, you can go to MF. If you want good support, you can use AT, or get decent support as one of the newly-empowered hybrids.

FT becomes the new WT. An embarrassment of options, yet none of them really good enough to outdo what any other class can do. Unless I'm seriously understimating the impact of level 40 bow bullets with increased modifiers, Edel Arrow and the bow speed boost. Which is entirely possible.

Given the...compliant and soft-spoken (<_<) nature of most dedicated loli-techers, I'm honestly quite surprised there hasn't been far more bitching about the status of FT post-supplemental.

Unless they're all MFs now, and still tantalized by the shiny things coming out of their Pushan. That would explain quite a lot.

[Chunky McMunky]

i dont think wartechers need another a rank they definately need another s rank cus they only have 5 im praying for either sword or twin saber

[Ceresa]

FM is still the king after the updates.

FT is fine, brings as much to a party as MF does, more in certain missions, it's just a lot weaker in solo play. That embarrassing FT bow is less humiliating then noszonde for De Rolei and Dark Falz too.

New evasion isn't that great for melee, except on attacks with a strong first hit, like Hikai. The invincibility only applies to the first hit of the combo. You're better off getting better armor to not get flinched out of the combo and eat the damage and go to the second step of the combo.

[joefro]

Guntecher, Wartecher - LV40 Support Technic
Gunmaster - Crossbows

Just me dreaming though, this stuff will never happen.

[Criss]

Guntecher:
ATP - 116% -> 150%You have NO idea how much I'm gonna love that. 1000+ damage per mgun hit, here I come! >:3 Cards are gonna be broken as hell too with this and lv 42 bullets.

The Supplemental Update actually covers most of what you'd want added or changed for the classes. There are still a few things bugging me like the lack of S rank cards for GTs or why they bothered giving them A rank double sabers, but otherwise I think it's ST's best effort at balancing the classes since the game was released.

[Randomness]

The supplement needs to come faster. FASTER I SAY! I want to go from surviving to maiming with WT, please.

[dexter_safe]

so after that big update comes masterforce will have the same evp as acrotecher??
gunmaster didn't need that atp boost >.> what a waste

[Ezodagrom]

[spoiler-box]
Between the stat changes, the system changes (Just Counters are invincible and uninterruptible), the customizations (Just Counter Damage +, Just Attack Damage +, PA level +, etc)...most classes that aren't FM/FF are getting a HYOOG power boost from the Supplemental update.

WT and GT greatly benefit from stat increases and PA level + increases in the update, as the latter actually lets them specialize. Fi and FG benefit from massive ATP increases and the PA+, allowing them to further increase their specialties and better cover their weak areas. PT's an all-around good class that becomes far better once it gets the ATA/ATP boost and the PA+'s allowing it to have both up to 40 melee and 50 bullets.

FF and FM were borderline broken anyway, and the increases in damage mods to most non-Majarra, non-Jabroga PAs will still benefit them. GM gets a big ATP boost that it probably didn't need (it's even with GT's new mod). AF gets modest stat boosts, but the changes to Just Counter and the upgrades to melee PAs in general make EVP an actual asset now. AT gets a minor stat boost, but probably benefits the most from the PA cap increases, as it can use full Twin Dagger combos, get the "less interruptible" benefits of 21 whips and gets the juicy stat increases of the 20-21 threshold on most bullets. The Just Counter stuff'll help too.

MF goes from a class only for masochists to one of the better classes in the game at taking on multiple enemies. It gets massive stat boosts in EVP and HP, along with a boost in TP. Gi-techs get sped up overall, but they also gain high (SE5) SE levels after 41. Diga and Foie can hit multiple enemies, and with the basic tech Limit Breaks, they can hit multiple spots on the same enemy. Techs overall get a damage mod boost, as well. It even gains the ability to increase its support tech cap to 20, meaning it can finally match buff items.

So...the super-powerful get a tangential boost (or outright steroid injections in the case of GM). The hybrids get cleaned up and boosted. The Acros get slight boosts and the benefit of EVP no longer being as much of a liability to melee. WT, the game's perennial bitch, gets massive stat boosts in all areas, and the PA+ means it might actually be able to pick one of the thousand things it can do to actually be better than mediocre at. All in all, seems great for everyone.

Someone's missing there, though. >_>

Oh yeah, FT. They... get an EVP boost to match AT's EVP? Which is now less than MF's.

They lack the ATP to take advantage of the level 20 melee/level 40 bullets the PA+ will give them access to. They lack the Limit Breaks that MF gets, which combined with their lol ATP means they still don't have a good big-enemy option. They can get up to level 50 offensive techs with Tech Level +...but MF has more TP and a cast speed boost. Also, MF has better EVP now, meaning that even if a FT wants to negate the MF casting advantage by spamming Just-Countered Dam-techs, a MF will do it better.

Not that anyone really cares (including me, despite how it may sound), as if you want nuking shiny enough to overawe everything else with half-decent support, you can go to MF. If you want good support, you can use AT, or get decent support as one of the newly-empowered hybrids.

FT becomes the new WT. An embarrassment of options, yet none of them really good enough to outdo what any other class can do. Unless I'm seriously understimating the impact of level 40 bow bullets with increased modifiers, Edel Arrow and the bow speed boost. Which is entirely possible.

Given the...compliant and soft-spoken (<_<) nature of most dedicated loli-techers, I'm honestly quite surprised there hasn't been far more bitching about the status of FT post-supplemental.

Unless they're all MFs now, and still tantalized by the shiny things coming out of their Pushan. That would explain quite a lot.
[/spoiler-box]
Agree with everything. :>
In my opinion, FT should have got a TP boost too, not as big as the TP boost MF got, but enough for FT to have around 10% higher TP than MF (for example, FT with 185% TP mod and MF with 175%). FF has more ATP than FM and FG has more ATP than GM, why should FT be the exception. :<
Another thing is multi hitbox technics. I still think it's the ratechs that should have got the ability to hit multiple parts of big enemies instead of limit break foie and diga, because that's something all techers could use, not just MF. ^^;

[Hiero_Glyph]

1) WT- Sure, they are getting a large stat bonus but their natural PA levels are pathetic (they are the only advanced type without level 40 something) and their weapon selection, although varied, lacks any S-ranks of note. I think this type needs an upgrade in bullets to level 30, making them cap at 30 in all PAs, or something to 40. Upgrading a few more weapons types to S-rank wouldn't hurt either.

2) FT- As MF is getting a huge and well deserved bonus, it inadvertently (I hope SEGA didn't intend to do this) made the FT obsolete. Sure they can take their attack technics up to level 50 (Support+ is MF only), but they lack the casting speed or TP to deal the damage that a MF can manage. Without Limit Breaks the gap just gets worse. An extra 20% TP over the MF sounds about right (even a FF has 17% ATP over the FM, while the FG has 20% ATP over the GM).

3) AT- Seriously, level 50 support in a game where no one needs healing makes them a glorified megistaride. Their weapon selection is fine so I don't see a problem with giving them level 30 striking or ranged as their stat increases are pretty horrible (+20% ATP; +2% TP).

4) GT- Just kidding! This type will be fine once they upgrade the firing rate of Bows and give them that huge ATP boost. With the ability to take their bullets up to 50 this type will be just fine. I still don't understand why they are giving them A-rank Double Sabers though; I just hope it doesn't encourage a whole new generation of TD noobs, especially since TD is getting nerfed.

I think I covered them all.

[Randomness]

I wonder... would there really be a point to taking bows past 42 though?

[Magus_84]

I wonder... would there really be a point to taking bows past 42 though?

Yeah, if I remember correctly. They get massive ATP boosts per level from 41-50. And they get 50% element at 41, so each % of ATP increase will get the biggest possible damage gain it can.

I'd love to have level 30 bullets base on AT, but level-for-level, their available guns get their biggest boosts from 20-21, proportionally speaking. Twin Daggers at 21 combined with the supposed decrease in flinching given by 21 Whip will probably help cover the gaping hole in their offense that is multi-enemy packs. Or they could just go with 31 Gi-techs (which are getting speed boosted) and the tech range + thing. My AT's human, so I could do either. >_>

[darkante]

I always like to experiment, but being pretty much the weakest link at the moment isn´t as fun.

So, i´m looking forward too what WT and GT are getting.
Hopefully, they still will have a use by then.

I don´t see why GM is getting a boost though, i feel that they are very strong already.

FG getting a boost is also a joy to see, it got a fun arsenal as well.
I wonder if ever the Grenade Launcher gets a knockdown-effect as to increase it´s usefulness.

[tadtwisted]

I would like to see every skill/bullet in the game go to level 50 but split them up by class. example gunmaster would keep what they have but fortegunners would get level 50 grenades and machineguns. fortefighter would get level 50 twin sabers and twin claws, because as it stands my fighmaster is done all my PA's are at 50 (except absolute dance) so im done with that class. also id give masterforce megistar lv50 just to make that spell relevant but in a nut shell give evey class some kind of lv50 so we can keep rotating class, but this would screw fortecher but i dont have a answer for that :-P

[Hiero_Glyph]

I wonder... would there really be a point to taking bows past 42 though?

If you are a Human I guess you have nothing better to spend your points into. It really all comes down to how many PA Lvl+ points you have to spend. For a GT most of the weapons gain very little past 42 so taking them to that point is all that really matters.

For me, I would take Longbows to 50, Rifles to 42, Cards to 42, Machineguns to 42, Crossbows to 42, Twin Handguns to 42, and maybe Daggers to 12. As I play a Human GT that still leaves me with 8 PA Lvl+ points and no need to take Laser Cannons above 40. I'm till not sure which weapon type I would take to 50 other than Longbows, but it will likely be Machineguns.

[Ezodagrom]

FG getting a boost is also a joy to see, it got a fun arsenal as well.
I wonder if ever the Grenade Launcher gets a knockdown-effect as to increase it´s usefulness.
The changes for Grenade Launchers at lvl 40 were the following:
Elemental bullets - PP consumption decreased from 35/28 (PT/FG) to 26/20.
Boma Duranga - PP consumption decreased from 55/44 to 26/20
Boma Maga - PP consumption decreased from 62/52 to 45/36.

From lvl 40 to 50:
Elemental bullets - ATP increased from 235/240% to 275/280% (40% increase), ATA increased from 62% to 72% (10% increase), element increased from 27% to 39% (12% increase) and PP consumption increased from 26/20 to 28/22.
Boma Duranga - ATP increased from 400% to 450% (50% increase), ATA increased from 86% to 96% (10% increase) and PP consumption increased from 26/20 to 28/22.
Boma Maga - ATP increased from 180% to 200% (20% increase), ATA increased from 25% to 45% (20% increase), Special Effect increased to Freeze lvl 2, hits one more target (4 targets) and PP consumption increased from 45/36 to 50/40.

[New_One]

Where are people geting detailed information like bullet cap increases on classes with the SU? Can't find it on the psupedia page.

Also, GT should get S-rank cards, forget double sabers

[MadDogg]

I wish they gave fighgunners S-rank crossbows so my friends can shut up about it. They quit playing PSU like a year ago, so they are those type of friends that are always talking shit about the game every chance they get, and one of the things they keep bringing up is that fighgunners totally cant use s-rank crossbows. They are fascinated by that dumb ass weapon so much it pisses me off, wish sega let fighgunners use it so I wouldn't have to hear whining everytime PSU is brought up in conversation =/

[Ezodagrom]

Where are people geting detailed information like bullet cap increases on classes with the SU? Can't find it on the psupedia page.
JP PSUWiki. ^^
http://spoiler.sakura.ne.jp/rr/psu/index.php

[Sexy_Raine]

Too bad MF will still suck vs GM and FM. The day when Segduh gives techs the cover every situation, such as proper light offense techs, then I will consider it worth going back to. No matter what they do with current 23 it does not compare to Lv50 Melee and Bullets.

Fortegunner also needs more S ranks

[stinkyfish97]

Wish PT would have gotten a bigger boost in ATA than what was given, but given that there middle grade trap damage to increase traps damage even further traps look to almost become broken. But still I wish ATA would have gotten a bigger boost I think the ATP they recieved was decent though. I guess they figured though that being able to upgrade skills/bullets past 30 and 40 would give PT that extra ATA boost which would be greatly welcomed. GT and WT seem to have gotten the best of this update but that was pretty well needed for these classes. Also one way to make this game better is to add more king/buffed/shielded or half-damage enemies to the game. Every class kills shit way to fast now and simply making the enemies as buffed up of what they are would add some difficulty back to this game.

Does anyone have the stats on the bow shots after the update? like lvl 41+.

[Magus_84]

50% element, SE 5, 72% ATA.

All bow elements do equal damage now (Ice/Lightning/Light got buffed).

ATP % at 41 is 232%. At 50, it's 250 %.

They got buffed quite a bit. >_>

Also, I think Masei-Sou's speed penalty was eliminated. And it gets SE5 stun at 41.

[unicorn]

Guntecher:
They already got an ATP increase, but they need S-rank Cards.

Wartecher:
Got many stat increases. Give them S-rank Claws and Madoogs.

Acrotecher:
Give it more ATP and TP. S-rank Twin Daggers and Twin Handguns.

Acrofighter:
It seems AF got the shaft. Give it S-rank Twin Sabers, Twin Claws, and Knuckles.

Fortetecher:
REALLY got the shaft. FT needs to have more RAW TP over Masterforce. Also, FT does not have access to limit breaks, so thats a big W.T.F. Wouldnt hurt to give it more ATP while they're at it.


everyone else is fine IMO.

[ACDC4352]

Personally I think gunmaster should be able to use grenade and twin pistols at least.

[Magus_84]

Personally I think gunmaster should be able to use grenade and twin pistols at least.

Gunmaster can use Twin Handguns. >_>

[darkante]

I so wouldn´t mind a Grenade L. for Gunmaster, but i guess ST don´t wanna leave FG completely behind. =P

[mvffin]

Guntecher:
They already got an ATP increase, but they need S-rank Cards.

Wartecher:
Got many stat increases. Give them S-rank Claws and Madoogs.

Acrotecher:
Give it more ATP and TP. S-rank Twin Daggers and Twin Handguns.

Acrofighter:
It seems AF got the shaft. Give it S-rank Twin Sabers, Twin Claws, and Knuckles.

Fortetecher:
REALLY got the shaft. FT needs to have more RAW TP over Masterforce. Also, FT does not have access to limit breaks, so thats a big W.T.F. Wouldnt hurt to give it more ATP while they're at it.


everyone else is fine IMO.

pretty much agree with everything here. AF should have S rank twin weapons, WT needs Mags and GT definitely needs cards. FT should have more TP than MF, having cards and bows doesn't justify every tech doing less dmg.

[goldbrease]

one things they need to do is iether lower attack power of mobs or make def and mind actualy worth increasing.
id also like iether pas don't use any pp untill each part of the combo finishes or blocking restores pp, because getting knocked away or down during a pa or just starting one or blocking during iether one makes us fighters waste so much pp.
and yes gun master did not need a atp increase. they can already go threw and kill most things in a room before the fighter can swing a normal attack at 1 mob. let alone forces.
the only thing i wish for all fighter types is access to a wand and only being able to learn resta. i mean why the fudge do they give me a hughe tp stat if its useless for anything i can use?!

[unicorn]

I so wouldn´t mind a Grenade L. for Gunmaster, but i guess ST don´t wanna leave FG completely behind. =P

Well from what I've heard, the Supplemental update really makes Fortegunner very powerful with Grenade Launchers and Machine Guns. Gunmaster still has more DPS than FG, but sometimes FG is stronger, so I guess there is a balance now. Giving GM S-rank Grenades would make FG really useless though.

I also think FG should get S-rank Machine Guns guns.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Haha, overall the consensus seems to be S-ranks for everyone!!!

I think this is a horrible idea as most of the classes will be fine with level 40+ PAs and the stat bonus. Besides, in most cases the S-ranks that are listed will do very little to benefit the type other than give it the newest, flashiest toy.

[Chuck_Norris]

Also, GT should get S-rank cards, forget double sabers

Hell no. I can't wait for when I'll be able to dash up into a monster's face with Tornado Dance, shotgun them a couple times, then dart back off. :wacko:

[Ezodagrom]

In my opinion, most classes weapon selections are fine.
GT getting S rank Cards and WT getting S rank TCSMs and Claws would be great though.

If GT would get S rank Cards, we would finally have a class that could use S rank cards with high level bullets (up to lvl 50 after the supplemental update).

WT getting S rank TCSMs would make sense since it's the techer weapon they can pair with melee weapons. About the claws, would be another S rank option to pair with the tech mags (plus the status effects of S claws are really a nice plus).

There's also S rank whips. I think some class that can get lvl 50 skills should get them, since there's no class that can really use them up to that level. AF could probably be a good option for this. ^^;
(I think AF is fine now, but after the supplemental update AF didn't got a boost as big as most other classes.)

[Hiero_Glyph]

Hell no. I can't wait for when I'll be able to dash up into a monster's face with Tornado Dance, shotgun them a couple times, then dart back off. :wacko:

We have a winner! I think you picked two of the worst weapon types that a GT can use post supplemental update. Keep up the good work.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Wait, Fortegunner is getting LV50 bullets? O.O Ummm, goodbye Gunmaster I guess lol... ugh, Boma Duranga is going to suck at LV50 -.- I barely have HP as it is! Ooooh, please tell me they get LV30 attack too lol oh well, that 170% ATP mod with Majarra and a 50% 10/10 A rank spear is going to be sex.

[Criss]

Wait, Fortegunner is getting LV50 bullets? O.O Ummm, goodbye Gunmaster I guess lol... ugh, Boma Duranga is going to suck at LV50 -.- I barely have HP as it is! Ooooh, please tell me they get LV30 attack too lol oh well, that 170% ATP mod with Majarra and a 50% 10/10 A rank spear is going to be sex.
Fortegunners aren't getting a lv 50 bullet cap. Rather, you'll be able to use PA lv+ customization options to increase the cap of bullets for a certain weapon type at a time.

So in a way, they can reach lv 50 bullets, but not without the GAS system. http://psupedia.info/GAS

[Magus_84]

We have a winner! I think you picked two of the worst weapon types that a GT can use post supplemental update. Keep up the good work.

Except that Transportation Dance isn't being used as a weapon, and shotguns are still fairly powerful on GT now. When you add the extra element %, ATP % and the massive, massive ATP from the boost...boomsticking will still be viable.

They may lose in comparison to single-target DPS on pimped-out mechgun/crossbow, yes. But they're far from "bad".

And they may lose compared to what a GM could do overall. But try to find me a player that can use both GT and GM simultaneously. >_>

*simultaneously meaning "within the space of however many shotgun blasts it takes to kill a given enemy"

Also...S-Rank card would be nice, yes. They're pretty, they're shiny, they have moving parts. But level 41 Cards have 33% element and a decent ATP mod (for a one-handed weapon, anyway). You'll be doing well even with a lolCardRegas.

[RemiusTA]

Fortetecher.

Masterforce got an update, but most of the MF updates are only useful if your techs are 41+. FT still sucks.

At least we have 10% more EVP to get killed with.


The way i see it? Fortetecher has to try WAY too hard to be of any use. The fact that Har/Quick at times will outdamage a TP+ Unit is quite pathetic. And the only way to really do any damage is to use opposite element technics against your enemies...and that requires a shitload of technic leveling to keep all 5 elements together. That, and you're completely fucked if you're facing Dark enemies.

Technics overall just need a more than decent Base Damage boost. I'd say Techers should be doing at least 1.5x damage they currently do for us to feel as powerful as the amount of time we shovel into our technics.


Thats the difference between Rangers and Forces, IMO. As a ranger your damage continues to increase at a pretty steady level as you advance, but as a force your damage just seems to increase until you reach a certian level, and it's just uphill from there. Couple that with the fact that Ra/Gi technics are all but useless until 21+, only TWO of the offensive PA Technics are useful, and poor life expectancy , and its a hard knock life for us forces.

[Criss]

Except that Transportation Dance isn't being used as a weapon, and shotguns are still fairly powerful on GT now. When you add the extra element %, ATP % and the massive, massive ATP from the boost...boomsticking will still be viable.

They may lose in comparison to single-target DPS on pimped-out mechgun/crossbow, yes. But they're far from "bad".

And they may lose compared to what a GM could do overall. But try to find me a player that can use both GT and GM simultaneously. >_>

*simultaneously meaning "within the space of however many shotgun blasts it takes to kill a given enemy"

Also...S-Rank card would be nice, yes. They're pretty, they're shiny, they have moving parts. But level 41 Cards have 33% element and a decent ATP mod (for a one-handed weapon, anyway). You'll be doing well even with a lolCardRegas.Actually, now that GTs will have an ATP mod equal to the GMs, and will be able to get some lv 41+ bullets with PA Lv+, the only definite advantages that GMs have over GTs are the attack speed boost and the S ranks on certain weapons. I wouldn't be surprised to see a rifle-using GM be outdamaged by a GT using a bow with the improved bow PA stats. But best of all, GTs can buff themselves, which is a big advantage when soloing.

...I'm glad I always stuck with my good old Guntecher since back when they had lv 10 techs. :wacko:

[Hiero_Glyph]

Except that Transportation Dance isn't being used as a weapon, and shotguns are still fairly powerful on GT now. When you add the extra element %, ATP % and the massive, massive ATP from the boost...boomsticking will still be viable.

They may lose in comparison to single-target DPS on pimped-out mechgun/crossbow, yes. But they're far from "bad".

And they may lose compared to what a GM could do overall. But try to find me a player that can use both GT and GM simultaneously. >_>

*simultaneously meaning "within the space of however many shotgun blasts it takes to kill a given enemy"

Also...S-Rank card would be nice, yes. They're pretty, they're shiny, they have moving parts. But level 41 Cards have 33% element and a decent ATP mod (for a one-handed weapon, anyway). You'll be doing well even with a lolCardRegas.

First, the range of TD is getting nerfed so it will not be a viable form of transportation after the Supplemental Update. Second, Shotguns do not have a firing rate increase on the GT and are limited to A-ranks. Crossbows are the more viable alternative to Shotguns and there are better S-rank versions coming out down the line. Boomsticking should be left to the GM, PT, and maybe the FG.

As for being "far from 'bad'", if Shotguns are the worst option doesn't that make them bad by default? The only advantage that Shotguns have is that they can double-shot enemies. This is limited at best and only useful on large enemies or certain bosses.

To be honest one of the only uses I see for Double Sabers is against Ubakradas, Gainozeros, etc. and even then a Rifle would do just fine.

[That Guy]

what I want? Buffs and Debuffs to actually have an effect on things.

[stinkyfish97]

If they are giving GT and WT a rank double sabers I say PT should get S-Rank whips. LOL. Jk although 5 force ranks and all we get is a Bow kinda stinks, really wish I had 1 more option in my right hand on my PT, its why I choose not to lvl any single hand guns a whips would be pretty awesome to behold I would say.

[InfiniDragon]

Personally I think gunmaster should be able to use grenade and twin pistols at least.

1. GM has Twin Handgun.
2. GM needs nerfs, not buffs. No grenades for them. :lol:

[Magus_84]

First, the range of TD is getting nerfed so it will not be a viable form of transportation after the Supplemental Update. Second, Shotguns do not have a firing rate increase on the GT and are limited to A-ranks. Crossbows are the more viable alternative to Shotguns and there are better S-rank versions coming out down the line. Boomsticking should be left to the GM, PT, and maybe the FG.

As for being "far from 'bad'", if Shotguns are the worst option doesn't that make them bad by default? The only advantage that Shotguns have is that they can double-shot enemies. This is limited at best and only useful on large enemies or certain bosses.

To be honest one of the only uses I see for Double Sabers is against Ubakradas, Gainozeros, etc. and even then a Rifle would do just fine.

I thought I'd seen Ceresa/Lina say that the Transpodance nerf really wasn't significant enough to make it not viable, but I may be mistaken.

And...I wouldn't say Shotgun is worst on GT after the supplemental. Shotguns don't lose much from A to S because they're not very dependent on weapon ATP anyway. No speed boost, but eh. GT after the supplemental would have more ATP to work with than PT if they're both solo (after buffs). Not a huge amount more, but still more.

The speed boost for shotguns is less about DPS in terms of shot for shot damage and more about sustainable DPS. You shoot, you don't get interrupted, you continue shooting. Over a level, that really adds up. But against a single enemy, the speed boost isn't as significant in terms of burst damage. Not saying it's bad, not saying it's "not OMG WTF AWESOME". It is.

But it gains more and more of an advantage the more and more shots you get. Against the example given, a GM wouldn't kill that enemy much faster than a GT. Two of those enemies? It would. Five? It adds up. Ten? No contest.

Then again, that's what crossbows are for. But for one single burst of damage, shotgun is still GT's best choice. Especially against stuff that can be double-shot. And I don't see how any class that can equip Handgun, single Saber (sans speed boost), non-speed-boosted lasers can have Shotgun as its "worst" option.

Sustainable DPS? It pales compared to GM's speedboost and FG's WTFUBAR newfound ATP. Burst damage on a single target in the course of a second or two, especially if said enemy is large? It's still going to be pretty up there.

And I don't see how PT is a significantly better shotgun user, unless they're in a party together. GT's 10% behind it in ATP, but the GT Shifta/Agtaride difference knocks that down to 6%. Certain people might argue that the 40% ATA difference between the two may occasionally make GT catch up. It's enemy-dependent, of course.

Of course...at this point we're basically just nitpicking. I disagree with you in degree, not concept.

[AlphaDragoon]

So hold up a second....WT is gonna have more base ATP than an AF? With buffs? And PA level increase?

That's....interesting. ._.

[Magus_84]

So hold up a second....WT is gonna have more base ATP than an AF? With buffs? And PA level increase?

That's....interesting. ._.

Is that someone...almost...maybe...considering switching to WT?

I think they've done their job. Hiero'll probably come in and explain why that's a bad idea though.

Protip: look at the stat mods from 41-50 on Slicers/Twin Sabers/Knuckles. They're beastly. >_>

[Hiero_Glyph]

I thought I'd seen Ceresa/Lina say that the Transpodance nerf really wasn't significant enough to make it not viable, but I may be mistaken.

With A-rank Double Sabers the PP is limiting as well so even if the range is not as short as it could be, the PP needed to spam it makes it less than ideal when combined with the slow execution speed.


And...I wouldn't say Shotgun is worst on GT after the supplemental. Shotguns don't lose much from A to S because they're not very dependent on weapon ATP anyway. No speed boost, but eh. GT after the supplemental would have more ATP to work with than PT if they're both solo (after buffs). Not a huge amount more, but still more.

PT has 160% ATP compared to the GT's 150% ATP post Supplemental Update so the GT will never have more ATP than the PT even with buffs. Also, the PT does not have an alternative to the Shotgun so it is thier best option. As for A-rank versus S-rank, sure it does not matter much but when comparing S-rank Crossbows to A-rank Shotguns, it gives the Crossbows more of an advantage than you might think. Again, I am not saying that A-rank Shotguns are bad, only that they are bad when compared to S-rank Crossbows.


The speed boost for shotguns is less about DPS in terms of shot for shot damage and more about sustainable DPS. You shoot, you don't get interrupted, you continue shooting. Over a level, that really adds up. But against a single enemy, the speed boost isn't as significant in terms of burst damage. Not saying it's bad, not saying it's "not OMG WTF AWESOME". It is.

But it gains more and more of an advantage the more and more shots you get. Against the example given, a GM wouldn't kill that enemy much faster than a GT. Two of those enemies? It would. Five? It adds up. Ten? No contest.

Then again, that's what crossbows are for. But for one single burst of damage, shotgun is still GT's best choice. Especially against stuff that can be double-shot. And I don't see how any class that can equip Handgun, single Saber (sans speed boost), non-speed-boosted lasers can have Shotgun as its "worst" option.

The Shotgun is valid if we are talking about one-shotting creatures. If the Shotgun cannot manage to kill the creature in a single hit the Crossbow remains better as it fires roughly twice as fast. I agree with the double-shotting part but again those situations are more limited than you would imagine. Against certain enemies the mobility penalty (you cannot move while the PA is executing) of the Shotgun makes them less than ideal and also makes retargetting difficult.


Sustainable DPS? It pales compared to GM's speedboost and FG's WTFUBAR newfound ATP. Burst damage on a single target in the course of a second or two, especially if said enemy is large? It's still going to be pretty up there.

And I don't see how PT is a significantly better shotgun user, unless they're in a party together. GT's 10% behind it in ATP, but the GT Shifta/Agtaride difference knocks that down to 6%. Certain people might argue that the 40% ATA difference between the two may occasionally make GT catch up. It's enemy-dependent, of course.

Of course...at this point we're basically just nitpicking. I disagree with you in degree, not concept.

I never said that the PT was better using the Shotgun, only that the Shotgun was better for the PT. To be blunt, the PT has to use Shotguns because they do not have any alternative. Also, the difference between Shifta level 21-30 and an Agtaride is 4% but the ATP difference between a GT and PT using them respectively is not as the buffs modify the base ATP and the PT has more (160%*Agtaride versus 150%*Agtaride+4%).

[InfiniDragon]

Is that someone...almost...maybe...considering switching to WT?

lol, no. My brother (Alpha) is a die-hard, will NEVER change AF. Single saber = his favorite weapon, and high speed + saber + R-Mag (aka the asthetic of a single weapon with the use of two) are the reasons he's a happy AF. If you ask him I'm absolutely certain he'd explain it the same. :lol:

The reason Alpha is puzzled is because AF already has pretty high ATP. So higher ATP mod with buffs = WT > AF in ATP. Of course, the higher level PAs and speed boost still make AF out DPS in my opinion, but I get where he's coming from on the "WTF" factor.

As for me, I'm happy with the changes. I'm a melee WT and I'm happy as I am, so any buffs are just gravy.

[AlphaDragoon]

Is that someone...almost...maybe...considering switching to WT?

To quote my brother, "lol no".

"Interesting" means "WTF they're about to make WT broken why are they doing this".

[Magus_84]

Damn, thought I'd found one. Guess I lost that bet. >_> Also, AF's the only melee class I can stand for any prolonged length of time, so I kinda sympathize.

Anyway...(as Hiero can probably explain better than I), I don't think the buffs are going to "break" WT. The melee speed boost counts for a lot, and WT's still capping out at 40 PAs in a few given areas. They're going to be much better than they are, but so's everyone else.

Think of AF/WT as kind of a FM/FF comparison. If FF were capped at 30 melee and had less of an base ATP advantage.

Hiero: I see what you're saying. For reference, my post-supplemental GT PA list only includes 1 shotgun PA (Maga) and all six crossbows. We agree that in certain situations (you can double-shot or ohko small enemies), Shotgun'll still be useful comparatively in those situations on GT. And my impression of the original statement that started this made it seem like he was talking about a double-shot situation.

But for a "main" weapon, Crossbow or Mechgun will be better.

And this: I never said that the PT was better using the Shotgun, only that the Shotgun was better for the PT. makes far more sense than my original interpretation. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Fortegunners aren't getting a lv 50 bullet cap. Rather, you'll be able to use PA lv+ customization options to increase the cap of bullets for a certain weapon type at a time.

So in a way, they can reach lv 50 bullets, but not without the GAS system. http://psupedia.info/GAS

Omgggg, this is like the BEST part of FFXI coming to PSU? XD I freaking loved farming merit points in FFXI lv75 parties. <333333333333

[Hiero_Glyph]

Hiero: I see what you're saying. For reference, my post-supplemental GT PA list only includes 1 shotgun PA (Maga) and all six crossbows. We agree that in certain situations (you can double-shot or ohko small enemies), Shotgun'll still be useful comparatively in those situations on GT. And my impression of the original statement that started this made it seem like he was talking about a double-shot situation.

But for a "main" weapon, Crossbow or Mechgun will be better.

And this: I never said that the PT was better using the Shotgun, only that the Shotgun was better for the PT. makes far more sense than my original interpretation. Thank you for clearing that up.

Yeah, I hope that Shotguns end up better than they are currently for the GT but I highly doubt this will be the case. The only reason I see Shotguns as being more viable for the FG is due to S-rank Shotguns and A-rank Crossbows (the opposite of the GT), although I'll still probably use Crossbows.

Regarding the whole double-shot thing, it is very tricky especially when you factor in the time required to execute the PA and the fact that you cannot move until the animation is finished. For a GM this is fine as you can fire quickly and then reposition to get another double-shot in, but for the GT this will be much more difficult as SEGA's solution to making higher level enemies more difficult is to make them much faster.

[JimmyMagic]

I personally feel that FighMasters should have a Handgun, even if its C rank. I don't even need the PA, neutral bullets will do.

I cant hit wall switches which annoys me, and the fact that De Rol Le stays up in the air laughing at me takes the piss!