Question regarding Wartecher's

[Eclypse]

I have been playing Phantasy Star since the days of the Dreamcast, but I am fairly new to PSU. My question is regarding Wartechers. Since PSU doesn't have the same designated classes, i.e. HUmar, HUnewearly, FOmarl, etc I figured that making a female Newman and going Wartecher would be the closest thing to a true HUnewearl. So far I would agree that it is spot on a perfect match because in PSO the HUnie was the weakest stat wise to the HUmar or HUcast in terms of raw power, but made up for it in other areas. I am seeing the same happen with my Wartecher, however I am noticing that the gap is much larger in PSU than it was in PSO.

Right now my Wartecher leve 6 and my character level is 65, and I notice I am struggling to kill things in A runs. Now when I say struggling I don't mean that I can't kill them, I mean it just takes all damn day to do.

What level do they generally come into their own on PSU?

[Freeze]

As a fellow Newman Wartecher all I can say is stick with it. Your lv is pretty low right now but after you pass lv 11 you'll start to see improvements and believe me once you get it maxed out at lv 20 it will be well worth the trip.

[Eclypse]

Good to hear. When I team with people all I hear is "Wow you have a Wartecher, why?" and all kinds of other negative remarks, but its all good because I won't be changing because I am playing a HUnewearl and know the uphill task it can be to make them truly shine.

I was very disappointed to see that the Loveheart Line was so underpowered after using that on the PSOGC and PSOX.

[darthplagis]

yeah i get the same, have done since pre AOTI TBH. too many people look at pure numbers, and forget this is a game. enjoy wartecher its a great class, getting even better when supplemental update comes

all i can say is stick with it it will get better, slowly.

just try not to be swayed by others, by the sound of things you are like me, a pso vet who is stuck in his/her ways :) so you should be ok.

after all of my illuminus beast hatred peddling in the past, i decided on a female beast as my stand in HUnewearl simply for gudda hon, you can get them cheap at good % and i had a few 40%+ sitting in my bank. twin fal and nei+ are amazing as a wartecher :)

[Shou]

Leter on Wartechers will have, overall, the best stats in the game. You will also be able to customize your charecter to be better at the things you do the most when playing. It is a well rounded class so it will never be very strong in one area. You are the jack of all trades when playing as a wartecher.

[Randomness]

Leter on Wartechers will have, overall, the best stats in the game. You will also be able to customize your charecter to be better at the things you do the most when playing. It is a well rounded class so it will never be very strong in one area. You are the jack of all trades when playing as a wartecher.

Yeah... I fail to see what people have against WT. The melee selection is fine, S-rank in twin daggers and claws covers most melee. Solid techs at 30/30, and bows have good % and damage (and ignore defense, which is awesome)

Honestly, I think too many people focus on min/max mentalities, and ignore the fact that WT has an answer for every enemy. Oh, and without a doubt, WT is the hardest-to-kill (GT in second, since no-one else has DFP, MST, and Resta)

Mini-rant aside, WT is fun. Hard to top being able to slice, dice, then turn around and nuke some poor grunts.

[RemiusTA]

As a fellow Newman Wartecher all I can say is stick with it. Your lv is pretty low right now but after you pass lv 11 you'll start to see improvements and believe me once you get it maxed out at lv 20 it will be well worth the trip.

Yeah you know i HATED wartecher first time i played it, but through enduring i came to like it alot.

However, you're still going to suck worse than everyone at everything you do. Technically. I dont think the difference is all that horrible though until you get to endgame stats, because when i was playing my WT was doing pretty damn well. Supplemental update we get in 2012/end of world/never shall change that though.

However, i still dont see what the elitist DPS whores complain about so much. They have a pretty good selection of weapons, coupled with S rank Wands and madoogs, and Lv 30 skills, and lv30 Offensive AND support technics. Im still recovering from not being able to whip out a saber and destroy enemies on Fortetecher.

[pinkace]

Oh, and without a doubt, WT is the hardest-to-kill


I was going to say that as well. My female newman WT is actually tougher than my beast AF! on this event for example; my beast walks into the third room of the quest and gets bombarded with Grants (?) attacks and dies regardless of armor. My WT being 6 levels lower actually survives this!

I have to say Wartecher is one of the best choices I have made so far in classes.

[Volcompat321]

I hated WT only because I forced myself into it for Masterforce.
I took the time to level it some more, and started to love it.
They get the 30 buffs, which makes the class that much more awesome!

[Hiero_Glyph]

What level do they generally come into their own on PSU?

To be blunt, they don't... ever.

If you run with a Master type you will simply be a glorified NPC compared to them. If you run with a Forte type you will seem average at best. And if you run with another Hybrid type you might actually seem good by comparison, but not better.

Sure this sounds a bit harsh but as another poster already stated the WT is a jack-of-all-trades type that is also the master-of-none. WT's aspire to be average in every way and it takes an exceptional player to make this type seem somewhat good. If you took that same player and changed their character to a Fighgunner, Acrofighter or even an Acrotecher the player would do more for the party and be better overall.

Now everyone always brings up the Supplemental Update but stats do not make the type, PA caps and weapon selection do. Regarding PA caps, the WT is the only advanced type without level 40 something. As for weapons, the WT has a pathetic selection of S-ranks (Twin Daggers were nerfed hard) and a myriad of A-ranks.

As the PA level modifies the total stats of the type along with the armor and weapon, the low PA cap kills any stat bonuses that this type gets. This is further reduced by being limited to A-rank weapons for the majority of their selection. Sure you can use PA lvl+ to increase the PA caps but that kills the versatility of the type and forces them to specialize into only a few weapons. If you are going to do that then why not pick a type that is already specialized?

Again, the WT is a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type. If you enjoy having more weapons than any player can possibly afford to upgrade and want to spend most of your time leveling PAs up to 30 (20 for ranged) then this is the type for you. Don't say that I didn't warn you though.

[Legendria]

To me, WT is a tank class.

And as we all know, PSU does not need tanks. Ever.

[Genoa]

To me, WT is a tank class.

And as we all know, PSU does not need tanks. Ever.

fact :roll:

[landman]

I'm not a good wartecher because I only use melee and the bow, but I agree they have one of the greatest defense in all the game, I find it very difficult to die as wartecher. I usually play as a beast, but I'll provably use my newman the day I lvl up a technik more than lvl 10 (my newman is already WT lvl 20)

[Eclypse]

To be blunt, they don't... ever.

If you run with a Master type you will simply be a glorified NPC compared to them. If you run with a Forte type you will seem average at best. And if you run with another Hybrid type you might actually seem good by comparison, but not better.

Sure this sounds a bit harsh but as another poster already stated the WT is a jack-of-all-trades type that is also the master-of-none. WT's aspire to be average in every way and it takes an exceptional player to make this type seem somewhat good. If you took that same player and changed their character to a Fighgunner, Acrofighter or even an Acrotecher the player would do more for the party and be better overall.

Now everyone always brings up the Supplemental Update but stats do not make the type, PA caps and weapon selection do. Regarding PA caps, the WT is the only advanced type without level 40 something. As for weapons, the WT has a pathetic selection of S-ranks (Twin Daggers were nerfed hard) and a myriad of A-ranks.

As the PA level modifies the total stats of the type along with the armor and weapon, the low PA cap kills any stat bonuses that this type gets. This is further reduced by being limited to A-rank weapons for the majority of their selection. Sure you can use PA lvl+ to increase the PA caps but that kills the versatility of the type and forces them to specialize into only a few weapons. If you are going to do that then why not pick a type that is already specialized?

Again, the WT is a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type. If you enjoy having more weapons than any player can possibly afford to upgrade and want to spend most of your time leveling PAs up to 30 (20 for ranged) then this is the type for you. Don't say that I didn't warn you though.

To me this post sounds like the opinion of a min/max player so it doesn't really surprise me that you would say some of the things you have typed. I am looking for feedback based on playing the character to gauge for performance, not whether or not it can do one thing better than another.

I was just curious if there is ever a point where they come into their own similar to the days of PSO.

[Eclypse]

yeah i get the same, have done since pre AOTI TBH. too many people look at pure numbers, and forget this is a game. enjoy wartecher its a great class, getting even better when supplemental update comes

all i can say is stick with it it will get better, slowly.

just try not to be swayed by others, by the sound of things you are like me, a pso vet who is stuck in his/her ways :) so you should be ok.

after all of my illuminus beast hatred peddling in the past, i decided on a female beast as my stand in HUnewearl simply for gudda hon, you can get them cheap at good % and i had a few 40%+ sitting in my bank. twin fal and nei+ are amazing as a wartecher :)

I'm definitely sticking with her because nothing else comes close to matching what the HUnewearl was to PSO and I am not trying to be just a techer, meleer, or ranger.

What is this supplemental update you speak of? I have only been on PSU for about 7 days now so I am not up to speed over everything like I was for PSO when it was happening.

[Ezodagrom]

Supplemental update is an update that will bring several boosts to all classes, it will introduce costumization options (like increasing tha Photon Art level cap for a certain weapon, for example Wartecher increasing the PA cap for knuckles to lvl 40 instead of 30).
It will also introduce advanced missions, which are missions that restrict a player to lvl 20 and limit the use of certain items...I guess it's kinda the PSU version of challenge mode (with many differences).
There's also going to be many new weapons and downloadable content. The downloadable content can't be accessed by PS2 users, because the PS2 doesn't have an hard drive.

Most likely the US/EU servers won't get the supplemental update until the 1st half of next year though.

[Hiero_Glyph]

To me this post sounds like the opinion of a min/max player so it doesn't really surprise me that you would say some of the things you have typed. I am looking for feedback based on playing the character to gauge for performance, not whether or not it can do one thing better than another.

I was just curious if there is ever a point where they come into their own similar to the days of PSO.

Min/max players are the best way to guage the performance of a type and you asked if WT's ever come into their own; the answer is still no regardless of whether or not you want to hear it. If you switched from WT to another type everything gets easier. Fighgunners, Acrofighter and Acrotecher all share a similar weapon selection to the WT and all three types are more beneficial to their party.

My advice is to play a WT up to job level 20 and then switch to another type. See how you feel about the WT after playing another type (or two) and if you still prefer it, go back to it. Just don't limit yourself to a dificult type for the sake of nostalgia.

[Ezodagrom]

Who needs easier things when there are not many hard things in PSU? :>

[biggabertha]

If you play PSU on a competent PC, the game is very easy no matter what class you play. Everything loads, there's no slowdown, you can customise a lot of things yadda yadda yadda.

Chances are, if you play on an Xbox 360, you have some problems but you get the "normal" difficulty for the game. Some things load, some things lag, some things take time to do etc.

If you want a challenge (as you clearly do playing as a HUnewearl on PSO and recreating her as a Female Newman Wartecher) then you should be playing on a PS2 to further augment the difficulty in the game. Nothing loads in time (your team will be dead before your resta weapon loads), weapons deload when a fifth and sixth member joins you (admittedly, this never actually happens since there are only four people playing on the PC/PS2 servers at any one time) and the slowdown that you get in some areas/enemies makes you REALLY attuned to using Just Attack/Counter (or Exact Attack and Exact Counter).


You masochist, you! Welcome to the team!!

[Eclypse]

Min/max players are the best way to guage the performance of a type and you asked if WT's ever come into their own; the answer is still no regardless of whether or not you want to hear it. If you switched from WT to another type everything gets easier. Fighgunners, Acrofighter and Acrotecher all share a similar weapon selection to the WT and all three types are more beneficial to their party.

My advice is to play a WT up to job level 20 and then switch to another type. See how you feel about the WT after playing another type (or two) and if you still prefer it, go back to it. Just don't limit yourself to a dificult type for the sake of nostalgia.

I find it hard to believe that they never come into their own. I wasn't asking for the sake of finding out if something get easier because in truth nothing is really hard on PSU. I was more or less asking to find out why people have so many negative comments to make about the class.

I personally prefer the Wartecher because it is basically a HUnewearl, and even though you make a good point about the other classes mentioned, they still don't have the exact weapons palette that Wartechers do and that is another reason I like the class.

Before I went Wartecher I actually played a Fortetecher to level 11 mainly to level up my techs and then changed to a Wartecher. The only thing I do not like about the class is its lack of using Double Sabers, but that is small in the overall picture.

[Calsetes]

Ok, I read the first two or three posts, and sorry if it's been covered at length, but like they said stick with it. After we get this massive boost to almost all the jobs in several months, Wartecher will be extremely worth it at a maxed level. They actually got the biggest bonuses of all the jobs they boosted (and gave them a double-saber, but I have no idea why they'd do somethign like that...)

Edit: Read your last post, now you should have no gripes about your WT. Although the Doublesabers are only up to rank A, but better than nothing.

[Magus_84]

I find it hard to believe that they never come into their own. I wasn't asking for the sake of finding out if something get easier because in truth nothing is really hard on PSU. I was more or less asking to find out why people have so many negative comments to make about the class.

I personally prefer the Wartecher because it is basically a HUnewearl, and even though you make a good point about the other classes mentioned, they still don't have the exact weapons palette that Wartechers do and that is another reason I like the class.

Before I went Wartecher I actually played a Fortetecher to level 11 mainly to level up my techs and then changed to a Wartecher. The only thing I do not like about the class is its lack of using Double Sabers, but that is small in the overall picture.

Define "come into their own" or "hold their own". Because if you're gauging against Hunewearl on PSO...go play Ultimate Ep2 or 4 solo, in somewhere like Towers or Desert. Even some Forces would have an easier time than Huney does. She was a generalist with only the basic ranged weapons. With lousy-enough growth (and low enough maximum mat usage) that her stat maximum potential would never be reached. In a game that rewarded ATP/ATA and ranged status-effect/special attack usage and specialization to the exclusion of everything else.

Wartecher's going to be leaps and bounds better than Hunewearl, comparatively, because nothing in PSU can match the cheapness of doing Towers as a non-Ranger. Because melee on PSU is, often, the best option.

You're asking for a performance gauge, using a ridiculously-open-ended metric, then using "min-max" in a derogatory manner when people attempt to gauge the class on any standard comparison that could be made.

While I agree with you on the whole "no other class has the exact weapon pallette WT does" (and that that's often overlooked by those who think that the beginning and end of a class is its performance against others), if you're asking a question about performance, you're going to get your best answers from people like Hiero. Even if you don't like those answers or the way they phrase them.

If you're going to care enough to want to know hard facts, you'll probably have to take the inevitable negative comparisons that'll come up in discussion of factually-disadvantaged classes.

And as has been mentioned, they will get Double Sabers if/when we (ever) get the Supplemental update.

For what it's worth...WT's the only spear/sword-user I can stand for any length of time. Despite it being weaker than the others. I, like you, like the combination of stuff it brings to the table.

Problem is, you'll cap it out very quickly. And then it just feels futile to keep going in a class where you can't level your PAs.

[Eclypse]

It's not that I didn't like Hiero's post I just said it sounded like a min/max response rather than answering my exact question of if they come into their own.

What I mean when I say come into their own, does the class have problems staying alive against enemies that the average class can deal with, or do they constantly struggle from 1 to 20 with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't mind someone answering using a min/max perspective, but I don't think using that as a metric is fair to the class when its a given that it will be outshined by harder hitting melee types, or out teched by Fortetechers, Masterforces, etc. Since they are a jack of all trades character it would be better to compare them to the average of melee types and the average of techers since they cap out below other job classes. I know that in a direct comparison of melee damage or tech damage the Wartecher will come last each time against the classes that are better at melee or better at tech usage.

The basis of the question was formed when I was playing as a Fortetecher because a couple Wartechers joined teams I had formed and people would ask them why they chose it as if it were the leper of the advanced jobs and I just didn't understand it because those Wartechers were holding there own in the team. I personally love the job type and don't plan on changing.

[Ranmo]

Hey, I havent played WT since like pree AoTI. Ive read some of your guys posts but when playing it compared to PSU pre AoTI. Does it feel a lot better? Im starting to want to mess with WT on my human...and I REALLY want to mess with it after supplement update. Which wont happen for like FOREVER anyways...

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Eh, Wartecher is fun and that's all that matters.

[InfiniDragon]

^ ya rly.

I love WT, even if they aren't necessarily a "big numbarz" class. If I was going for pure performance I'd pick a bandwagon class like CAST GM (which lol, no) and be done with it.

[Calsetes]

^ ya rly.

I love WT, even if they aren't necessarily a "big numbarz" class. If I was going for pure performance I'd pick a bandwagon class like CAST GM (which lol, no) and be done with it.

Hey... my cast was designed to be a GM since PSU had three missions in it...

Still, it is a bandwagon class. You DO have a point there.

[Legendria]

Because melee on PSU is, often, the best option.

Lol.

10char

[Allison_W]

I'm just taking a guess here, but wouldn't a wartecher actually be very well-suited to missions that contain a strong mix of melee-resistant and magic-resistant enemies, if they were compared to the average damage that a pure techer or pure melee type does over the course of the mission?