Should weapons/armors tampered with GC be marked?

[str898mustang]

I was just wondering, once this horrible idea of GC hits(if it ever does) our servers, 3/4 of the population are going to be fixing their broken weaps or raising the % of their weapon/armor. Obviously there will be a bunch of 40% weapons on the server but range weaps will be able to go back to 10/10 by spending RL money. Obviosuly a SNG that made it 10/10 naturally by grinding would be worth a lot more than a SNG 10/10 that was "fixed". I'd be pretty ****ed if some noob just had to use his/her mommy's credit card to get a whole set of 40%Srank Weapons/Armors or a set of 10/10 range/technic guns.

Now my question is, should a weapon that was fixed/tampered with GC be marked?

[panzer_unit]

lol that's rich.

All those items people got "naturally" came because they could spend serious time doing it, or in a tiny number of cases just came out of nowhere from pure luck. As anyone with a job knows, spending time and spending money are no different.

If anything you should give that kid props for spending extra cash on PSU, it'll help make the game look better on Sega's books and keep the servers afloat.

[Ruru]

i'd have to say. while i feel sorry for people that did it "legitly" if others want to spend money on it go ahead. it'll just bring the prices down more and more and make it easier for the rest of the population to buy better gear for cheaper prices.

i dont think it should be marked and even if it was, what would it change on this game? people will buy the stuff regardless and wont pay the extra money for the "naturally" grinded or made things. so while yours was "legit" it'll still be sitting in your PM's shop for months collecting dust while all the GC spenders make money off the crap they fix up.

[hunterseifer]

Well anything 40% and under will be worth almost nothing by this, thats why stuff 42,46, and 50% will still with hold their value. I dont use any weps under 42% anyway so idc if ppl use GC b/c it doesnt really affect my equipment

[Gen2000]

I couldn't care less about people spending their RL money to upgrade themselves in the game. The fact this will get some people all hot and bothered is kind of amusing. The only thing marked gear will bring about is harassment from the "natural" players. Let's be real here.


...what would it change on this game? people will buy the stuff regardless and wont pay the extra money for the "naturally" grinded or made things. so while yours was "legit" it'll still be sitting in your PM's shop for months collecting dust while all the GC spenders make money off the crap they fix up.

And that.

[barnacleez]

40% weapons are already "marked" from my understanding since you can't synth that kind of % weapon naturally (Not sure about percents from Arms Dealer). As for fixing grinds on weapons... does GC just take the weapon back down to 0/10 or can you simply pay to make it 10/10? (Looking at you, SN/G...)

Hello again, PSO-W.

[str898mustang]

if u had a weapon that was 8/8, u use the GC thing, it would make it 8/9, grind it ti 9/9, use the GC thing, and it would make it 9/10.


Couple people on the official forums had a good idea......once u use GC on a weapon/armor, the weapon/armor is account bound....meaning u cant sale/trade it.

[unicorn]

I'm going to be rocking my 10/10 Psycho Wands and Pushans that I couldn't have gotten without this. Its cuz I'm sooo rich. I might end up being a really high-end player with this system. I think its great cuz its sooo easy, and I have a ton of money.

[Umberger]

http://www.psuxxx.info/uploader/src/up2098.jpg

Even if you can't understand Japanese, I think you can get the point of how ridiculous it can get (at least when it comes to grinding)...

I say if someone really wants to spend their money to make their weapons slightly better, go nuts. I won't be using the service personally, but I have nothing against it for those that choose to use it.

[biggabertha]

Some people will be more bitter about things than others.

The economy will suffer (in terms of Meseta) but things that are bought/refined with $, £, € etc. will allow some players to equalise the playing field. Those players that are either unlucky at synthesizing or grinding will get a third chance to improve their weapons (since grinding has become far more lenient these days...).

What I'm more worried about is just how much money will be used by individual players. Bad enough that some players use multiple accounts and strive for certain areas of perfection (either full elemental sets of equipment or neutral equipment) will REALLY throw money into things.

It's brilliant from a business point of view and it's probably extremely unethical but you cannot do anything about the nature of people.

Afterall, all we do is compete with each other as fairly as possible until an "easier" method is presented to us and we make the choice to go down the easy way. The saying: "Quit while you're ahead" comes to mind...

But not until I get all of my PAs (except Whips) to Lv. 50..! :wacko:

[Akihito]

http://psupedia.info/The_Upgrade_Device

This article really eased my concerns with the whole GC system.

-In order to repair a broken weapon, it must be at its maximum possible grind level (2/2 or 5/5, for example).

Lets say your SN/G is 4/4... to get its Grinds back to your paying 1400 GC. BUT you can only fix a grind if the weapon is Max(I.E. you fix 4/4 to 4/5 then grind it to 5.) You STILL haveto grind it to the next stage before upgrading. The other option for grind is;

-Paying GC to upgrade a weapon(Limit is 8/X)

Lets use the same SN/G from before. To Guarantee the weapon doesnt break you use the Grinding the weapon. to get it 8/X you pay 610 GC. So You've payed to get that 4/4 SN/G to 8/8 SN/G; 1110 GC. Since you cant go higher then 8 when upgrading a grind. you can the next 300 GC to make it 8/9 and try your luck going 8/9 to 9/9. If it breaks? your weapon is now 0/8 and you can either throw a lil hissy fit or pay 710 GC to get it from 0/8 to 8/8. Then try your luck again.

Notice how you can really get screwed big time here? Lets say 5 dollars pays for 500 GC the SN/G to get 8/8 in the method explained about would be 15 dollars(1110 is over 1000 making you purchase another 500 GC) And if it breaks going 8->9 your money is wasted.

All of that is for ONE weapon. Imagine how much it would cost to get a full 8/8 pallete?

Also for increasing the % on your weapon... If you have a 20% Repca and want a 40%...

Weapon % upgrading is as follows:

from 0%-10% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 5GC
from 10%-20% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 10GC
from 20%-30% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 20GC
from 30%-40% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 40GC

so to get your 20% Repca to 40% will be 800GC. so at $5 per 500GC your weapon will cost $10 to make from 20% to 40%.

Again for ONE weapon. In the end you could in essense be spending ridiculous amounts of hard earned money to increase 1 weapon or more. It'll always vary from person to person, so really what economy would be hurt?

Probably the price for 30%s would go down because of its cheaper to increase a 30% to 40 rather then a 20%. In retrospect most weapon drops at 20% in or around anyway. Guns/Techs 8/8 would go down in price but ultimately 9/9 10/10 shouldnt change because its still the same luck to go 8-9 then 9-10 in reality.

[Ruru]

http://psupedia.info/The_Upgrade_Device

This article really eased my concerns with the whole GC system.

-In order to repair a broken weapon, it must be at its maximum possible grind level (2/2 or 5/5, for example).

Lets say your SN/G is 4/4... to get its Grinds back to your paying 1400 GC. BUT you can only fix a grind if the weapon is Max(I.E. you fix 4/4 to 4/5 then grind it to 5.) You STILL haveto grind it to the next stage before upgrading. The other option for grind is;

-Paying GC to upgrade a weapon(Limit is 8/X)

Lets use the same SN/G from before. To Guarantee the weapon doesnt break you use the Grinding the weapon. to get it 8/X you pay 610 GC. So You've payed to get that 4/4 SN/G to 8/8 SN/G; 1110 GC. Since you cant go higher then 8 when upgrading a grind. you can the next 300 GC to make it 8/9 and try your luck going 8/9 to 9/9. If it breaks? your weapon is now 0/8 and you can either throw a lil hissy fit or pay 710 GC to get it from 0/8 to 8/8. Then try your luck again.

Notice how you can really get screwed big time here? Lets say 5 dollars pays for 500 GC the SN/G to get 8/8 in the method explained about would be 15 dollars(1110 is over 1000 making you purchase another 500 GC) And if it breaks going 8->9 your money is wasted.

All of that is for ONE weapon. Imagine how much it would cost to get a full 8/8 pallete?

Also for increasing the % on your weapon... If you have a 20% Repca and want a 40%...

Weapon % upgrading is as follows:

from 0%-10% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 5GC
from 10%-20% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 10GC
from 20%-30% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 20GC
from 30%-40% to increase your weapons % by 1% is 40GC

so to get your 20% Repca to 40% will be 800GC. so at $5 per 500GC your weapon will cost $10 to make from 20% to 40%.

Again for ONE weapon. In the end you could in essense be spending ridiculous amounts of hard earned money to increase 1 weapon or more. It'll always vary from person to person, so really what economy would be hurt?

Probably the price for 30%s would go down because of its cheaper to increase a 30% to 40 rather then a 20%. In retrospect most weapon drops at 20% in or around anyway. Guns/Techs 8/8 would go down in price but ultimately 9/9 10/10 shouldnt change because its still the same luck to go 8-9 then 9-10 in reality.


and this all makes me doubt that alot of people, if any, will even sell their reworked weapons/armor after putting so much real money into them. although i have heard there are people dumb enough to pay real money for meseta so you never know....

[biggabertha]

So around $25 to get one weapon from 20% to a 40% 8/X...

Then potentially another $20 to get it to 10/10 if it breaks once.

That's $45 in total or probably around £30.

Guess I'm not doing this then if it works out to be this ridiculous.

The difference I've noticed with my Gunmaster's 5/9 Love Inferno and 10/10 Love Inferno is so very minimal... so I'm probably not going to even bother mashing my bank balance since I don't do Time Attacks and I can spend my money in better places such as buying magic BEANS!

So, okay - this GC thing potentially could go totally out of control... now I'm a little more concerned about it...

[Volcompat321]

The good thing is my 9/9's will sell for a decent amount to those people wanting to spend some cash on useless GC.
I will not be spending my cash on meseta, even if it is through SEGA. (pretty much RMT, but through SEGA, cause I'd end up selling my gear eventually.)
Also, I read on the other forum that they should be bound to the account if it's touched by GC, I totally agree.

[Ruru]

The good thing is my 9/9's will sell for a decent amount to those people wanting to spend some cash on useless GC.
I will not be spending my cash on meseta, even if it is through SEGA. (pretty much RMT, but through SEGA, cause I'd end up selling my gear eventually.)
Also, I read on the other forum that they should be bound to the account if it's touched by GC, I totally agree.

even if its not bound to the account i think it would be beyond stupid to sell something, in game, that you had to spend real money on @.@; its just crazy lol. and i know there's some idiot out there that would do it too.

[Volcompat321]

Yea, which is why I brought it up.
People will spend anything to get something.
I'm sure someone that cant afford(meseta) to buy a pwand, would spend the GC to get a 10/10 whatever and sell that for meseta to buy the pwand.
(just examples of course)

[darkante]

Marked, hmm...sure i guess.

But i do know that i won´t pay an unnesessary amount of cash for little insignificant things.

[Ruru]

Yea, which is why I brought it up.
People will spend anything to get something.
I'm sure someone that cant afford(meseta) to buy a pwand, would spend the GC to get a 10/10 whatever and sell that for meseta to buy the pwand.
(just examples of course)


hmm i guess that's a possibility when you put it that way. if they dont break the bank doing it in the process though.

i really have no problem with people selling their "GC-upgrade" items. if they wanna do it by all means let them. it'll be cheaper for everyone else lol. i just think it would be really stupid for anyone to actually buy the opportunity to make their own weapons "great" and then turn around and sell them for in game money XD

[Volcompat321]

hmm i guess that's a possibility when you put it that way. if they dont break the bank doing it in the process though.

i really have no problem with people selling their "GC-upgrade" items. if they wanna do it by all means let them. it'll be cheaper for everyone else lol. i just think it would be really stupid for anyone to actually buy the opportunity to make their own weapons "great" and then turn around and sell them for in game money XD

Yea, it would be completely ridiculous.
But think of it like this-
Some dood says "man I have the cash for an awesome weapon, but I don't have the meseta to buy this specific weapon I want".
Other dood says "I have the meseta, but I don't have the cash to fix my super duper awesome weapon".
Some dood says "How about I pay for your weapon with my GC, and you give me the other meseta/weapon?"
Other dood says "Well, sure, works for me".
RMT, in the making.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

They should, but they aren't.


Some dood says "How about I pay for your weapon with my GC, and you give me the other meseta/weapon?"
Other dood says "Well, sure, works for me".
RMT, in the making.
S'already happened... :P

[Ruru]

Yea, it would be completely ridiculous.
But think of it like this-
Some dood says "man I have the cash for an awesome weapon, but I don't have the meseta to buy this specific weapon I want".
Other dood says "I have the meseta, but I don't have the cash to fix my super duper awesome weapon".
Some dood says "How about I pay for your weapon with my GC, and you give me the other meseta/weapon?"
Other dood says "Well, sure, works for me".
RMT, in the making.

lol so true.
but its not as if sega has a big stance against it. hell they're practically promoting it.

but in all honesty. if you actually play this game its really not hard at all to come by meseta. most enemies in the new areas drop upwards of 1k meseta each. you can make over a mil a day just running the same thing over and over again and selling random junk to the npc and putting the junk worth selling in your shop. i just honestly cant see the need to spend real money on this game outside of the monthly fee lol.

it's so easy to get good gear if you have the time for it, and a little luck. i know not everyone has the time so scenarios like this end up coming to light.

this whole GC thing just leaves so much room for trouble its not even funny.

but as i've stated before. i have no issue with these items being resellable. Unless sega comes up and says no, and puts a fix on it, i dont really see it happening. also i dont think it should really be an issue worth getting worked up over. sure it might bring the value of certain things down, but it's really not hurting anyone. PC/PS2 server especially has everything priced annoyingly high. anything that will bring down the value of certain items is a blessing for alot of new players in my book.

[Volcompat321]

Yea, I play the PC/PS2 side, and I haven't spent money for like 3 months (before sub ended).
I have a little over 4 stacks (including holding ADA's stack) and haven't had to use it for a long time.
I have all the equips I need, and really don't see me personally being effected by GC, but I just don't like the idea of it.
I'm sure I'll get used to it once it comes, but for now, I have my opinions about it.
Most likely it will help lower some items a little, but I don't see the community really being effected by it too much.

[Hrith]

Yeah, we have called that GC system 'SEGA-approved RMT' for a while, now.

Really sad...

[The_Brimada]

I wouldn't bother upgrading anything with the system personally, even though I'd most likely have the money to do so. For those foolish enough to actually do so, sure let them. Their items shouldn't be marked either, so I could cash in on their mistake :o

[spoiler-box]I can't help but to think of this every time someone mentions Sega and Guardians cash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S55lpWnTOZk[/spoiler-box]

[Hrith]

Fitting vid, Brim, and funny XP


I hope the GC system will be free for official moderators :wacko:

But yeah, marking such items, or making then account-bound is a good idea, IMO.

[NDW]

I hope the GC system will be free for official moderators :wacko:

That would be awesome!

But, I would be a bit jealous...

[JesMaz]

No matter how good your weapons are, you have to know how to be effective too! There's more to it than having the best equipment. Having the best equipment is just one part of the equation, which is not really necesarry anyways!

[hyperacute]

Don't really see the point in marking things to be honest. Whether obtained via GC or acquired through normal play, the items are going to be identical anyway. Then again, I've never really cared about the contents of other people's palettes or felt the urge to bang on about the HERCULEAN EFFORTS!1!!1 required to fill mine either.

[Hrith]

more like HERCULEAN LUCK!!1!11

[hyperacute]

more like HERCULEAN LUCK!!1!11

That too XP

[Alamar]

I will not pay Sega $9.99 for the service.......Wait "service?" or lack of. And then w/o fixing anything want me to pay more RL money for upgrades? Wha? really? You serious?

Then to top it off pay for "special" runs with "special items" NO... NO.....NO. Not now, not ever. Lag issues pretty much since launch of ver 1. No support at all, in or out of game.
To have the gall to even think about this GC w/o fixing the problems we have complained about since launch is just unbelievable.
And no doubt players will gobble it up. Oooo +10 +10 OOOO 40% 40%. Well I for one refuse to pay this company more then I do already. Too much now if you ask me. Since I do know of free games handled better then this.
And as for the selling of them. If you use GC on a item it becomes a bound item.

[Volcompat321]

10 bucks is easy enough to pay.
I do agree SEGA should fix other problems, like....idk, the customer satisfaction? first, but this isn't a horrible idea.
Although I wont even think about trying this "service".

[Somnia]

Fixing customer satisfaction would include not implementing the GC system stateside.

[Volcompat321]

Problem solved, eh?

[Alamar]

Fixing customer satisfaction would include not implementing the GC system stateside.

This!

[Delete]

[quote]
The difference I've noticed with my Gunmaster's 5/9 Love Inferno and 10/10 Love Inferno is so very minimal...
So, okay - this GC thing potentially could go totally out of control... now I'm a little more concerned about it...

Exactly. So many people including myself always want the 10/10 weapons while in reality, all you need is a 5/10 or 4/10 and your good. :-)

And about the GC stuff, I think the main area where it will matter is the armors. Increasing those to 40% will probably be worth it as they are pretty expensive(40% and up). Not that I plan on buying any GC myself, I won't be around that long, lol.

[Keilyn]

In economics the most important element deals with the purchasing power of a universal trade unit. A universal trade unit is something that can be exchanged/traded for any "good" and by itself has no real value outside of actual trade/exchange. We call this item "currency."

The raising of percentages to 40% or over through GC actually increases the purchasing power of the currency on items below 40% while simultaneously increases the value of any item over 40%. It puts the actual value of the good itself in perspective...This will cause playershops to have higher quality goods than what you see now..at better prices. This also justifies that any item over 40% becomes a Trade-Item that be used for a good 1 : 1 trade over an item in the same category.

The reason people are mad is that they confuse "business" with "Economics" and believe that they are synonymous...They are not and in fact players are mad that they could no longer sell that one item they like for 5 - 100 times more what it is worth if the supply itself was good. They should be happy that their purchasing power is actually increasing and will truly help them in the future.

Scarcity is something economists try to fight and measure due to the fact that inflation and instability are linked. The circulation of wealth and goods is an important thing. If everyone produces but no one buys...we have a crisis on our hands.

These events helped the economy massively...as well as Guardians Cash will...by improving the purchasing power of Meseta and introducing in abundance a series of items...so players can focus more on playing the game and spending time with their friends and less time actually worrying about their equipment.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

The difference I've noticed with my Gunmaster's 5/9 Love Inferno and 10/10 Love Inferno is so very minimal...
Exactly. So many people including myself always want the 10/10 weapons while in reality, all you need is a 5/10 or 4/10 and your good. :-)
The only problem with this is, when GC comes out there'll actually be a corresponding GAS custom that will increase weapon ATP by an extra +15% once it reaches 10/10, on some weapons this will be a huge difference.

[biggabertha]

That's a good point...

Agito Repcas will be insane with an extra 200 or so ATP but Longswords have some limited uses...

At least the Love Inferno could be used well.. but there's not an S rank version of that GAS customisation yet, right..?

Man, there's going to be so many people wanting 10/10 Shotguns/Mechguns... I can so see that happening...

[Hrith]

Machineguns and shotguns? to deal 5 more damage? lol

FCP is only worth it on weapons with high ATP. It's not a very good custom option, anyway.

[Devil King]

There seems to be a number of people here that don't mind calling other people stupid, idiot, or foolish because they don't do things the same way they say they would.

Anyway, it makes sense to me, if you make 37 dollars an hour and you would rather spend a portion of that or around that amount to accomplish what other people require hours upon hours to days even, more than that single or double hour, you're making an intelligent choice to the time spent as long as you are interested in entertainment, have the purse to spare that amount of money, and don't care about elitist that sovereign themselves as god for playing a videogame more than other people.

Certain people pull a double shift, and double their pay, while others are spending 8 hours on this game, which can earn them more than what many people earn in 8 hours of just playing this game.

It's not quite the same... as your job is just working and playing this game is supposed to be entertaining (although doing such things repetitively can make the line between work and entertainment blurry, and more like just occupying yourself).

Although, I play the 360 version, so I don't even know if we'll ever get these options.

By the way, I am interested in this, as I don't like grinding, it's like all or nothing gambling, if you win, great, but if you lose, you lose everything you ever worked for. I hardly gamble, I tend to bet in what I truly believe in.

[Pillan]

So you've spent months doing True Darkness S2 and an Agito Repca board finally drops. You finally collected all the materials you need, pop it in your PM and wait a day for it to synth. Afterward, you pull it out and it hits 10% ice. Next you try grinding. Using 54 of you S+10 grinders, your bad luck continues and you're finally left with a 2/2. At this point you're probably ready to quit PSU.

Then your friendly friends at Sonic Team say "Hey man! Pay us 20 bucks and we'll turn you 10% 2/2 into a 40% 8/9!" You think to yourself and realize that it doesn't sound like a bad offer since it took 3 months to find all the materials in order to make the weapon, which would have been an additional $30 worth of time that could be spent elsewhere. Obviously you take the deal.

Given that's about the absolute worst case scenario event, but I'm sure you can see exactly why the Guardian Cash system will do a lot better than the forum rants suggest as well as provide some additional funding for the maintenance of the servers. I doubt anyone's going to go crazy with the system and I suspect everyone will have a friend that will take them to Legacy of Light every once in a while and occasionally fix their stuff. Or there's always trading for GC, as has been suggested in this thread.

Personally, I'm not a fan of countless hours of futile grinding in order to gain absolutely nothing and I have a job, so I definitely prefer having Guardian Cash as an option.