PDA

View Full Version : To All Owners of SUV In Urban Areas:



pinkace
Aug 27, 2009, 02:27 PM
There are only 3 situations when driving/owning an SUV is acceptable:

1. You live in or consistently drive out to the country where there are no paved roads.
2. You tow very heavy items on a high trailer, for example a boat that is more than 24 feet, or a trailer home (most trailers can be hitched to normal sedans)
3 You are a total douchebag.

Other than those three scenarios, it is NOT OK to own an SUV.

Why did you buy one? The higher ground clearance and large tires these cars have were NOT made with city driving in mind.

You needed cargo space? Get this: the smallest minivans has more cargo space than the largest SUVs!

You wanted safety? SUVs are more dangerous in a crash than other cars because when they flip over they risk injury to the passengers that can't be prevented (like rolling upside down into a ditch on a rainy day and drowning)

This is your last warning! if you own an SUV, get out of the city, or I will proceed to finger-wag the crap out of you and guilt-trip your ass for supporting muslim extremists and killing the polar bears!! seriously!

zfighter14
Aug 27, 2009, 02:47 PM
Environmentalist? or hater to SUV owners in cities?
i agree with you though lol ^^

Retehi
Aug 27, 2009, 03:17 PM
Who are you to say who should own what?

But at the same time, I actually agree. Why is it only tiny blonde women are always the ones to get SUV's anyway?

SabZero
Aug 27, 2009, 03:28 PM
Nah, they just want to park on the sidewalk.

Shattered_weasel
Aug 27, 2009, 03:41 PM
Rants? In my off topic?

Either way, as long as the person obeys the rules of the road they could be driving a dog with wheels and they would still go down in my "Awesome Person" handbook.

pinkace
Aug 27, 2009, 04:22 PM
yea this belongs in rants.

i am not an environmentalist or an economist.

I am a practicalist. There is no practical use for SUV's in the city!

zfighter14
Aug 27, 2009, 04:26 PM
Haha ok then. you do make a fine point though. no need for big vehicles in cities. commercial about it

Nitro Vordex
Aug 27, 2009, 04:59 PM
So are you saying that we should only have granpa's slow cars and minivans, because fast cars are impractical because of speed limits?

Oh, that'll go over well.

Also, if you wanna pull something, you use a truck, not an SUV with the ground clearance of a small plane.

Leviathan
Aug 27, 2009, 05:26 PM
I don't like SUVs but they aren't all that big and clunky. [IE. Nissan Murano, the cute Lexus one.]

SUVs were made to haul things a sedan can't and have a bit more room to it. Not all people like fugly vans.

Kent
Aug 27, 2009, 07:11 PM
My dad's been in the market for a Chevy Tahoe lately. Though, I forget the exact reason... He lives in a suburban area though, does that count?

pinkace
Aug 27, 2009, 10:24 PM
Look, it is like this:

You wanna go fast? Get a sports car

You wanna haul things and keep them from getting wet (i.e. not a pickup truck flatbed)? get a minivan

You wanna haul dirty and/or smelly stuff and don't want it inside with you? get a pick-up truck.

You live in an area with no paved roads or snow-plows provided by the city, and you need a vehicle that can handle that? get an SUV

The Murano and other 'cute' SUVs like it (M5, Cayenne, et al) are for people that are in fact douchebags but simply are not aware of their douche-ness.

This is what you need to do: next time you see one of this douche-disease-carrying vehicles, please alert the driver of his ailment. I promise that he/she will be thankful. Wouldn't you be thankful if you were doing something stupid and someone came by and alerted you of it?

Nitro Vordex
Aug 27, 2009, 10:29 PM
The cute ones really aren't SUV's, they're just "cute". Not really good for anything like that.

SUV's are kinda ugly for the most part.

Leviathan
Aug 27, 2009, 10:48 PM
Look, it is like this:

You wanna go fast? Get a sports car

You wanna haul things and keep them from getting wet (i.e. not a pickup truck flatbed)? get a minivan

You wanna haul dirty and/or smelly stuff and don't want it inside with you? get a pick-up truck.

You live in an area with no paved roads or snow-plows provided by the city, and you need a vehicle that can handle that? get an SUV

The Murano and other 'cute' SUVs like it (M5, Cayenne, et al) are for people that are in fact douchebags but simply are not aware of their douche-ness.

This is what you need to do: next time you see one of this douche-disease-carrying vehicles, please alert the driver of his ailment. I promise that he/she will be thankful. Wouldn't you be thankful if you were doing something stupid and someone came by and alerted you of it?

So simply buying any SUV for the sake of it renders someone a douchebag?

It's a car and a person's choice for God's sake. I see no reason to go around name calling people.

My dad has an SUV, does that make him a douchebag?

My friend has an SUV, does that make him a douchebag?

No. Douchebags are douchebags because they are douchebags. The car they drive has nothing to do with it. That's like saying anyone that drives a Honda Civic is a ricer. Or anyone that drives a Prius is a green freak.

Volcompat321
Aug 27, 2009, 11:00 PM
My mom owns a Ford Explorer, and she's not a D-bag.
We live in Florida, where there are some dirt roads, but she doesn't drive trough em.
I've owned a truck and sports car.
With my truck, I towed lots of things.
With my Mustang, I did go fast, but I was young and stupid about it.
SUV's aren't made for towing things, trucks are.
Also, not all SUV's are made for off-road.
Who are you to say who's a douche bag or not?
What kind of car do you drive, if you even drive?

Randomness
Aug 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
You live in an area with no paved roads or snow-plows provided by the city, and you need a vehicle that can handle that? get an SUV


Anywhere that has plows, gets enough snow to justify an SUV. Period. Plow crews cannot teleport, and lack omnipresence.

SabZero
Aug 28, 2009, 03:32 AM
You don't even need a SUV for that, there's four-wheel drives and Jeeps for that.

SUV stands for sports utility vehicle, doesn't it? The "sports" is what does it in, you can't really have both S and U and not look like a fool.

amtalx
Aug 28, 2009, 09:10 AM
So simply buying any SUV for the sake of it renders someone a douchebag?

It's a car and a person's choice for God's sake. I see no reason to go around name calling people.

My dad has an SUV, does that make him a douchebag?

My friend has an SUV, does that make him a douchebag?

No. Douchebags are douchebags because they are douchebags. The car they drive has nothing to do with it. That's like saying anyone that drives a Honda Civic is a ricer. Or anyone that drives a Prius is a green freak.

This.

People have preferences. I don't see myself ever owning an SUV, but if I want one, I'm going to get one. If you don't like them, don't buy one.

Outrider
Aug 28, 2009, 09:50 AM
Listen, when I'm at a stop sign and the intersecting street is lined with SUVs on both sides so that I have to pull all the way into the street in order to see if there's any oncoming traffic so that I can pull into the street, then yes, it's a bit of an issue.

And yes, some SUV headlights are high enough that if they're driving behind a car that's low enough to the ground they will blind the driver. It's happened to me plenty of times. That's an issue.

And maybe it's just because I live in good ol' soccer-moms-and-suv land (AKA suburbia), but SUV drivers are almost universally terrible. (Same with luxury car drivers - I've seen many a teen behind a BMW who doesn't seem to understand what a steering wheel is.)

The fact is, nobody should have to upgrade their automobile in order to deal with somebody else's automobile purchase, but these trends make it harder and harder to drive normal cars.

MetaZedlen
Aug 28, 2009, 09:55 AM
So I entered this thread expecting something amusing, and what do ya know?

I love on how HORRIBLY some people are judged just because of the vehicle they drive, and if I was an insensitive whiny-ass, I would take offense to the OP but I won't, because this is just screaming "hey, this is troll bait!"

Now, I will post my side of the arguement: My dad owns an SUV, and I love it. Why? because it's bigger than a car, and because I am taller than average, it's a shit ton easier to get in. If I were to try to get into my mother's car (a Pontiac Bonneville...), it takes me so much longer because it's so low to the ground, and because she's 8 inches shorter than me, she has everything much closer to her (steering wheel is lower, the seat is really close to the pedals, you get the idea), which makes it harder yet for me to get in.

Now I know that SUVs aren't exactly the best on gas, but like I said, they are easier for me to access, and I actually enjoy driving one more than a car because I feel comfortable in the vehicle I am driving.

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 10:52 AM
Just to let everyone know, NOT only SUV's have those "blinding" lights.
I see newer Lexus' and even some lower end cars with them.
It's an issue with all types of vehicles, NOT just SUV's.

pinkace
Aug 28, 2009, 11:34 AM
Lighten up guys. Although I am not judging people, I do reserve the right to call anyone a douchebag :chuck-ball: :twak: A rant would not be complete without some overly-dramatized name-calling :rant: :argh:

My sister, her husband, my father in law and his daughters drive SUVs. Do I think they are douchebags for driving inpractical, inefficient, ineffective and wasteful vehicles? No. Is it scientifically justifiable to own an SUV in urban and sub-urban areas?

Absolutely not!


Anywhere that has plows, gets enough snow to justify an SUV. Period. Plow crews cannot teleport, and lack omnipresence.

That is a common misconception. The tires on an SUV are made of the same materials as the tires on my Toyota sedan. They stick to snow with the same grip as SUV tires, regardless of thread depth. Put chains or 'socks' on any tire and it will have excellent traction, regardless of ground clearance or drivetrain.

I hate those SUV commercials with the vehicle plowing thru powdery snow. It is false advertisement. All wheel drive and big tires and a foot of ground clearance does not mean your tires will not melt the snow and get stuck in ice. Like Zohan would say, I have seen this, I have done this, you don't want this.

I have driven my car for 6 winters in the suburbs and in the city and never once have I gotten stuck. FWD FTW.

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 11:40 AM
Calling people douche bags for driving SUV's isn't judging anyone?

3 You are a total douchebag.

Outrider
Aug 28, 2009, 11:41 AM
Just to let everyone know, NOT only SUV's have those "blinding" lights.
I see newer Lexus' and even some lower end cars with them.
It's an issue with all types of vehicles, NOT just SUV's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Main_beam_.28high_beam.2C_driv ing_beam.2C_full_beam.29

You can do it with any car. The angle of the lights are higher so that more of the area in front of you is illuminated.

The issue is that SUVs and other large vehicles naturally will have their lights higher up and angled differently due to the different size of the car - so if you're driving in front of one in a smaller car, the light is shining right on you.

SabZero
Aug 28, 2009, 12:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Main_beam_.28high_beam.2C_driv ing_beam.2C_full_beam.29

You can do it with any car. The angle of the lights are higher so that more of the area in front of you is illuminated.

The issue is that SUVs and other large vehicles naturally will have their lights higher up and angled differently due to the different size of the car - so if you're driving in front of one in a smaller car, the light is shining right on you.

Well, angling your lights up will get you the right to a fine in germany. There's rules in place for the angle they can be. :nerd:

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 12:46 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Main_beam_.28high_beam.2C_driv ing_beam.2C_full_beam.29

You can do it with any car. The angle of the lights are higher so that more of the area in front of you is illuminated.

The issue is that SUVs and other large vehicles naturally will have their lights higher up and angled differently due to the different size of the car - so if you're driving in front of one in a smaller car, the light is shining right on you.

Yea, I know what you mean.
I used to drive a Mustang...it was lower to the ground than stock Mustangs.
I really hated driving, and not being able to see.
Another way this bothers me is if they are behind you, you cant look in your rear view or side mirrors because the light is blinding.

If I'm not in a bad mood, I'll just set my hand out the window and block the light from my side mirrors.
If I'm in a horrible mood, I'll usually slow down, get behind the people, and put my brights on and make sure I get my lights in their mirror.
If I'm in a pissed off mood, and need to get where I'm going, I usually just flick em off or yell out my window.
Most of the time, the people know why I'm pissed and flicking them off or yelling at em.
Good way to get killed by some angry road rager, I know.
And really, it's not only SUV's that bother me, it's newer trucks, (which can be the same height as SUV's) some newer cars (mostly "high end" cars) and some of the older cars with newer lights.

Outrider
Aug 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
text

Yeah, I mean - some people think they need to use the brights whenever it's dark. That's a terrible, dangerous idea. You're really only supposed to use your brights when there aren't any other cars around you.

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 01:31 PM
Yea, or when you cant see because there aren't any street lights.
Down here around my town, there are many places still in the making.
A city not so far from me, called Palm Bay, was really only made within the last 7 years or so, and that's really not a long for a whole city.
Some places don't have street lights, paved roads, or city water still.
The town I'm in is one of the oldest in Central Florida, so it's pretty well built as far as lights and whatnot goes.

pinkace
Aug 28, 2009, 02:38 PM
Calling people douche bags for driving SUV's isn't judging anyone?

It is insulting, not judging.

Listen, when people don't use the right tools to accomplish a job, it pisses me off.

If you want to serve some soup, use a ladle. That is what ladles were made for. If you want to flip an egg, use a spatula. That is what spatulas were made for.

If you want to drive on paved roads, use a car or a vehicle made for paved roads. If you want to drive thru rocky, holey terrain, get an SUV, which was made for that situation.

That is all I am saying. :bash:

Ketchup345
Aug 28, 2009, 02:51 PM
The cute ones really aren't SUV's, they're just "cute". Not really good for anything like that.CUVs - crossover utility vehicles, is the common term used for these. They are usually slightly better on gas that SUVs and built differently (more car-like, less truck-like).


Anywhere that has plows, gets enough snow to justify an SUV. Period. Plow crews cannot teleport, and lack omnipresence.Nope. In many places, cars work just fine. If you know how to drive in it, snow doesn't matter much, unless the snow is too high (single heavy storm), which would generally mean an area is shut down (except to plows and emergency workers) until it is under control or if the vehicle has sat in place through several storms, many people in worse areas keep a shovel in/near their car. My brother's girlfriend once drove home (20mins+) and said she saw more trucks and SUVs on the side of the highway than cars- it is more about knowing how to drive than what you drive most of the time (assuming the vehicle is in decent shape- brakes, tires).


SUV stands for sports utility vehicle, doesn't it? The "sports" is what does it in, you can't really have both S and U and not look like a fool.FWD, RWD, and AWD will work in the snow. AWD would work best, then FWD, then RWD. Subarus and AWD Volvos make up a decent amount of cars around me (and in areas farther north) for a reason.

For sport and utility, try a wagon or hatchback. Wagons have plenty of utility- more space than sedans/coupes (plus you can almost always find roof racks), but the same mileage and handling of cars. BMWs and Mercedes have wagons available (I know the BMW offers AWD, unsure about Mercedes), and there's the "hot hatch" category that cars such as the VW GTI, the Mazdaspeed3, and Subaru WRX/WRX STI fit in (the Subaru is available as a hatch or sedan). Subarus are one of the more popular brands in rallying (usually off road- conditions vary on location).


Now, I will post my side of the arguement: My dad owns an SUV, and I love it. Why? because it's bigger than a car, and because I am taller than average, it's a shit ton easier to get in. If I were to try to get into my mother's car (a Pontiac Bonneville...), it takes me so much longer because it's so low to the ground, and because she's 8 inches shorter than me, she has everything much closer to her (steering wheel is lower, the seat is really close to the pedals, you get the idea), which makes it harder yet for me to get in.

Now I know that SUVs aren't exactly the best on gas, but like I said, they are easier for me to access, and I actually enjoy driving one more than a car because I feel comfortable in the vehicle I am driving.The seat and steering wheel is all based on who drove it before you. Happens in SUVs too if you get in after someone of a much different height/build. The seat can usually be moved before you get in. Some upper trim levels of newer cars often include several selectable positions based on the driver (so the car should adjust itself for you if you are one of the settings).

Many newer cars are now being built so taller people have more room. I have a professor well over 6 feet tall that drives a Mini Cooper and says he has plenty of room.


Well, angling your lights up will get you the right to a fine in germany. There's rules in place for the angle they can be. :nerd:Light heights are probably at government controlled/approved positions from factory, but accidents and individual tampering may change the light heights (which may be illegal in some areas). This also does nothing for the fact that almost all SUVs and trucks get the very high light position approved and allowed (at car-driver blinding heights), and nothing can be done about it.



Listen, when I'm at a stop sign and the intersecting street is lined with SUVs on both sides so that I have to pull all the way into the street in order to see if there's any oncoming traffic so that I can pull into the street, then yes, it's a bit of an issue.This happens a lot to me. Often at a stop, a truck/SUV pulls up next to me and far enough forward I have to go very far out to see if my turn is safe. Cars I can deal with, I can usually see through them (highly tinted obviously an exception). SUVs and trucks should not need to go so far forward as their height should allow then to see OVER me (though I admit, this is usually due to idiot/asshole/inconsiderate drivers more than the vehicle itself since it wouldn't be bad if it was a few feet back).


It annoys me a bit when I see small (4-5 person) SUVs with no tow package and less mud, scrapes, and other signs of offroad use than my small car. Wagons or hatches would almost certainly work just as well for these owners.

Pinkace- In your first post when talking about safety, you forgot about the extra braking distance required by SUVs (assuming the brake technology and aids are equal).

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 03:01 PM
It is insulting, not judging.

Listen, when people don't use the right tools to accomplish a job, it pisses me off.

If you want to serve some soup, use a ladle. That is what ladles were made for. If you want to flip an egg, use a spatula. That is what spatulas were made for.

If you want to drive on paved roads, use a car or a vehicle made for paved roads. If you want to drive thru rocky, holey terrain, get an SUV, which was made for that situation.

That is all I am saying. :bash:

It's judging their character by the car they drive. Insulting yes, but also judging them as a person.

Also, it shouldn't matter how the job is done, as long as it's done effectively and on time.
SUV's work just as good on a paved road as a car does.
Of course you have to worry about the rolling over, you know when your an idiot and speed, then turn the wheel.
You have to be very careless to flip a vehicle easily. (not including cars hitting you of course, because that's not carelessness, that's getting hit).
It's also easier to flip an SUV while on the rough terrain you described.

And about driving on the snow, in some places (like Canada/Alaska) you can have chains on your tires, but most places in the States banned them for tearing up the road.
Cars, trucks, and SUV's can use the chains in rough terrain like Alaska and wooded(when icy)/iced over areas.

Ketchup345
Aug 28, 2009, 03:41 PM
And about driving on the snow, in some places (like Canada/Alaska) you can have chains on your tires, but most places in the States banned them for tearing up the road.
Cars, trucks, and SUV's can use the chains in rough terrain like Alaska and wooded(when icy)/iced over areas.Many states do include parts of their laws where they outline legality of tire chains. Most states where snow is an issue do have laws covering their use. Some areas of certain states may require chains before use.

According to this (http://www.tirechainsupply.com/tire-chain-laws.html), almost every state allows or even requires tire chains (or special tires in at least Delaware's case) depending either on the weather/road conditions or time of year. 6 states and DC don't have chain laws, of those: 2 are highly unlikely to see snow (FL and HI), and 4+DC see snow; all probably allow them (if they were banned, there would be a law).

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 04:09 PM
Well, a lot more than I though!
Thanks for the info :D
When I was younger I remember hearing something about the tire chains tearing up the road, and most states banning em.
Could have been an older version of tire chains? ;o
I know some tire company makes tire spikes, but I don't know much about those.
They could be that special tire in Delaware you were talking about.

Ketchup345
Aug 28, 2009, 04:30 PM
Well, a lot more than I though!
Thanks for the info :D
When I was younger I remember hearing something about the tire chains tearing up the road, and most states banning em.
Could have been an older version of tire chains? ;o
I know some tire company makes tire spikes, but I don't know much about those.
They could be that special tire in Delaware you were talking about.Probably another name for studded tires, which requires more commitment than chains (since its easier to swap chains on/off than tires). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studded_tires#Vehicle_applications

Many states do restrict the use (either time of year or conditions) of studded tires and chains to minimize damage to roads, so you may have just heard an exaggeration.

Volcompat321
Aug 28, 2009, 04:37 PM
Probably, I was young. lol
I remember having to screw the spikes/studs into the tire, not changing the tire itself though.

amtalx
Aug 28, 2009, 04:52 PM
The tires on an SUV are made of the same materials as the tires on my Toyota sedan.

All tires are made of rubber, therefor they all have the same traction.

Physics has a bone to pick with you.

pinkace
Aug 28, 2009, 11:54 PM
My dad owns an SUV, and I love it. Why? because it's bigger than a car, and because I am taller than average, it's a shit ton easier to get in. If I were to try to get into my mother's car (a Pontiac Bonneville...), it takes me so much longer because it's so low to the ground, and because she's 8 inches shorter than me, she has everything much closer to her (steering wheel is lower, the seat is really close to the pedals, you get the idea), which makes it harder yet for me to get in.

Now I know that SUVs aren't exactly the best on gas, but like I said, they are easier for me to access, and I actually enjoy driving one more than a car because I feel comfortable in the vehicle I am driving.

Minivans have much more head and leg room than all SUV's, they are safer, more efficient and more affordable than SUVs. Get one :)


It's judging their character by the car they drive. Insulting yes, but also judging them as a person.

Also, it shouldn't matter how the job is done, as long as it's done effectively and on time.
SUV's work just as good on a paved road as a car does.
Of course you have to worry about the rolling over, you know when your an idiot and speed, then turn the wheel.
You have to be very careless to flip a vehicle easily. (not including cars hitting you of course, because that's not carelessness, that's getting hit).
It's also easier to flip an SUV while on the rough terrain you described.

Well, I disagree. I meant to offend, not judge :whip: To judge someone would require analysis of intentions, etc. I just see SUV + City = douchebag.

There is always a 'best' way to do a job. SUV's do NOT work 'just as good' as cars on paved roads! that is my whole point! they may be acceptable and tolerable, but if that is all you do then getting an SUV is the wrong choice! If some idiot runs a red light and hits you in your SUV, and your SUV easily rolls over and you hurt your neck when your body weight landed on it, would you give a rat's ass whose fault it was?


And about driving on the snow, in some places (like Canada/Alaska) you can have chains on your tires, but most places in the States banned them for tearing up the road.
Cars, trucks, and SUV's can use the chains in rough terrain like Alaska and wooded(when icy)/iced over areas.

That is why I mentioned Snow Socks :) they are these cloth wraps you put around the tires, they are legal everywhere, they are amazing on snow, and they are super light so you can carry them in the trunk all year round.


All tires are made of rubber, therefor they all have the same traction.

Physics has a bone to pick with you.

Wait, what? that is what I said... so you agree but disagree?

amtalx
Aug 29, 2009, 04:00 AM
Wait, what? that is what I said... so you agree but disagree?

I was being facetious. I don't feel like jamming equations down your throat, but let it suffice that saying a sedan is capable of the same traction as an SUV is outright wrong. Empirics aside, I spent 4 years living on the side of a mountain. Believing that commuter cars are the same as SUVs left more than a few people at the bottom.

Gunslinger-08
Aug 29, 2009, 05:50 AM
Light heights are probably at government controlled/approved positions from factory, but accidents and individual tampering may change the light heights (which may be illegal in some areas). This also does nothing for the fact that almost all SUVs and trucks get the very high light position approved and allowed (at car-driver blinding heights), and nothing can be done about it.


This happens a lot to me. Often at a stop, a truck/SUV pulls up next to me and far enough forward I have to go very far out to see if my turn is safe. Cars I can deal with, I can usually see through them (highly tinted obviously an exception). SUVs and trucks should not need to go so far forward as their height should allow then to see OVER me (though I admit, this is usually due to idiot/asshole/inconsiderate drivers more than the vehicle itself since it wouldn't be bad if it was a few feet back).

These are the reasons I have a beef with SUVs and trucks.

It's simply because the same stupid people who blind you with their brights, drift into your lane, and tailgate you never think to change how they drive or what they do when they make the shift from a car to a larger vehicle.

biggabertha
Aug 29, 2009, 09:13 AM
Some people like the idea that a larger, heavier vehicle will undoubtedly create a stronger and bigger impression on their peers/fellow drivers.

Bah - some people drive expensive sports cars slowly, in the wrong gear, with the wrong tyres and have difficulty seeing beyond 4-5m (15'ish) in front of them but that doesn't stop them from doing it.

Just because someone likes to do something their way and is inconveniencing you doesn't mean you are in the right in their books. What if they wanted to be different from what you should do compared to what you want to do..? :wacko:

For some reason, this just sounds like those PSO/PSU threads about X weapon/character/class is better than the other. Pretty soon, it's going to turn into: "Taller characters can Shotgun Motherbrain in the face but blindside me when we're in close combat against Fakis."


All in all though:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/Biggabertha/popcorn.gif

Volcompat321
Aug 29, 2009, 11:54 AM
The OP is a terrorist.
(S)He is using insults, which may lead to fear to make people do what (s)he wants.

pinkace
Aug 29, 2009, 04:54 PM
I was being facetious. I don't feel like jamming equations down your throat, but let it suffice that saying a sedan is capable of the same traction as an SUV is outright wrong. Empirics aside, I spent 4 years living on the side of a mountain. Believing that commuter cars are the same as SUVs left more than a few people at the bottom.

As far as relating to snow and ice, which is the context in which I posted in, the size of the tire or the depth of the thread have no effect on traction.



The OP is a terrorist.
(S)He is using insults, which may lead to fear to make people do what (s)he wants.

LOL, well, yes. But I doubt anyone will choose common sense over being insulted by me :(

amtalx
Aug 29, 2009, 05:51 PM
As far as relating to snow and ice, which is the context in which I posted in, the size of the tire or the depth of the thread have no effect on traction.

I was referring to snow and ice. However, I mean real adverse weather, not that BS we run into in the suburbs. The co-efficient of friction between a tire and the road will be the same regardless of the vehicle, but SUVs have a significant weight, wheelbase, and ground clearance advantage. That is why they are superior in the snow. You do know that weight is a variable in friction calculations right? And driving in 8 inches of snow with 6 inches of ground clearance you get from a 2WD sedan isn't going to get you very far.

Nitro Vordex
Aug 29, 2009, 06:55 PM
Speaking of douchebags.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmS-GqWKzn8

pinkace
Aug 29, 2009, 10:05 PM
I was referring to snow and ice. However, I mean real adverse weather, not that BS we run into in the suburbs. The co-efficient of friction between a tire and the road will be the same regardless of the vehicle, but SUVs have a significant weight, wheelbase, and ground clearance advantage. That is why they are superior in the snow. You do know that weight is a variable in friction calculations right? And driving in 8 inches of snow with 6 inches of ground clearance you get from a 2WD sedan isn't going to get you very far.

Funny thing is on my previous post I explained in detail how detrimental to driving in snow a vehicle's weight really is, but I thought that it would be too much.

So here it goes. When you get stuck in the snow, this is what is happening: Pressure from the weight of the car compacts the snow. When you step on the gas, the tires spin. This creates friction, which creates heat, which melts the snow. As soon as you stop the spinning, the water begins to freeze and becomes ice, making the situation progressively worse.

Whether it is a 2wd or a 4wd vehicle, all tires have equal chances of doing this. True, it is rarer for all four tires to get stuck one after another or at the same time, but it does happen quite often.

As for ground clearance, the idea that it is an advantage is a myth. The snow is NOT touching the chassis anyways. If you are driving on deep snow, if it is too powdery then it doesn't matter what you are driving; unless you have tank treads, you are not going anywhere.

If you don't believe it, lets look at parts of the world that have serious snowfall. In Sweden, the makers of Volvo, they don't drive SUVs much, yet they get 6 feet of snow routinely. In Iceland, the 'cool' vehicles to drive are vans! They put socks or chains on them to drive in snow, and those cars have 17 inch rims (the EU equivalent). The SUV market there is very small, mostly government vehicles. On the italian alps, you do not see SUV's driving the roads either, and those are some snowy, icy winters they get.

Leviathan
Aug 29, 2009, 11:22 PM
Maybe people here don't like vans be they aren't the most attractive thing to drive along with the stigma of it being a "Soccer Mom's" car.

In short, which would you rather drive:

This?

And yes, sometimes people buy cars based on looks.

[spoiler-box]http://maneuver-rentacar.com/images/img/pops/toyota%20van.jpg
[/spoiler-box]
or this?

[spoiler-box]http://www.dragtimes.com/images/18597-2009-Toyota-Venza.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

amtalx
Aug 29, 2009, 11:37 PM
Actually experiencing some of these things as opposed to spewing fallacies from areas around the world you've never been might help. Populated areas with dense snowfall also have fairly consistent plowing and road services, so those are bad examples. Its pretty obvious you haven't spent much time driving on roads with little or no plowing.

As I said before, I spent a few years in the mountains where roads wouldn't get plowed, and SUVs were pretty critical when it got bad. Sure, you can drive just about any car in a few inches of snow, but if we got more than a foot then I left my car where it was and took my friends Suburban because it was unlikely I'd be able to get back up the mountain in my car (Nissan Altima).

You should actually go look at which cars score high for driving in ice and snow. Only a handful of them aren't SUVs or station wagons. Even the ones that don't fall into those categories are AWD. The best experience I've ever had in the snow was in an LR3. They are practically magic carpets.

pinkace
Aug 30, 2009, 11:51 AM
Again: put socks or chains on my toyota and I will show you how much better it is than what you think.

But I realized that we are getting off topic, and you are arguing in my favor (and I keep interrupting you): if you live outside of an urban area where they don't plow roads then, like I have been saying, get an SUV.

amtalx
Aug 30, 2009, 12:08 PM
You cited an article that listed the top fifteen winter cars, ZERO of which were sedans and a wikipedia page with no mention of snow or ice. Thank you for proving my point. Good day. :)

But as far as that list is concerned, I've driven an couple Jeeps and a Subaru in the snow. They put the Subaru at the top of their list for a good reason, but I still stick by LR3s. Their traction control system even has a setting for snow-covered gravel...which sucks to drive on.

Volcompat321
Aug 30, 2009, 01:39 PM
Again: put socks or chains on my toyota and I will show you how much better it is than what you think.

But I realized that we are getting off topic, and you are arguing in my favor (and I keep interrupting you): if you live outside of an urban area where they don't plow roads then, like I have been saying, get an SUV.

Your Toyota car may be better than what we think, but you may be thinking it's better than it is.
It's a fact driving on snow with any vehicle sucks, but it's easier with a higher type vehicle.
Most "urban places they don't plow roads" doesn't even snow bad enough to need to worry about it.
Something like Tallahassee, Florida. It snows, but not that much or bad.

Of course there are places that snow, and don't get plowed, but the residents of that area usually do it for the city, because it benefits them!
I've lived up north in the "country" areas where the city didn't plow.
Some of the residents got together and bought a big truck, and plow set-up.
Problem solved.

pinkace
Aug 30, 2009, 05:24 PM
You cited an article that listed the top fifteen winter cars, ZERO of which were sedans and a wikipedia page with no mention of snow or ice. Thank you for proving my point. Good day. :)

I removed them because both articles point to driving in snow in areas were the roads are not plowed, and like I stated previously, I understand why anyone would want an SUV in those areas. You keep posting about driving in really deep snow, and I keep telling you that this is not what I am talking about, but you don't get the point.

DreXxiN
Aug 30, 2009, 08:20 PM
Watching this argument is funny. I'm just not going to say anything considering I live in Wisconsin and we can get over 30 inches of snow.

Leviathan
Aug 31, 2009, 12:05 AM
How about this: Every vehicle has it's pros and cons just like anything else in life.

Africa
Aug 31, 2009, 02:52 PM
what if i just wanna be "ghetto fabulous" in a nice navigator or hummer?

pinkace
Aug 31, 2009, 05:46 PM
what if i just wanna be "ghetto fabulous" in a nice navigator or hummer?

Well, you would have to endure the anguish of being called a douchebag by me. I have seen this, I have done this, you don't want this.



How about this: Every vehicle has it's pros and cons just like anything else in life.


No, SUVs have too many cons to justify owning one in an urban to sub-urban area.

Ex-urbs are debatable. amtalx's neighborhood high up on mount everest is acceptable.

amtalx
Aug 31, 2009, 10:54 PM
I live outside D.C. -_-

Outrider
Sep 1, 2009, 01:34 PM
I live outside D.C. -_-

AKA District of Colorado?

amtalx
Sep 1, 2009, 02:06 PM
District of Ceres. Demoted plants ftw. Cold, but it doesn't snow much.

AC9breaker
Sep 1, 2009, 02:23 PM
lol u mad

Africa
Sep 1, 2009, 03:47 PM
Well, you would have to endure the anguish of being called a douchebag by me. I have seen this, I have done this, you don't want this.





No, SUVs have too many cons to justify owning one in an urban to sub-urban area.

Ex-urbs are debatable. amtalx's neighborhood high up on mount everest is acceptable.

but i'm a really nice person,wouldn't it chip away at your being doing this to well meaning people?what are ex-urbs?are you talking about rural areas or like those really stupid places where the roads are on cliffs and look like rollercoaster tracks?ie;most of pennsylvania.

pinkace
Sep 1, 2009, 06:10 PM
but i'm a really nice person,wouldn't it chip away at your being doing this to well meaning people?what are ex-urbs?are you talking about rural areas or like those really stupid places where the roads are on cliffs and look like rollercoaster tracks?ie;most of pennsylvania.


Funny you mention PA, cause that is the first place I heard of that expression... essentially an ex-urb is further out than the sub-urbs. When a land developer buys a giant plot of land way out in the boonies, builds a thousand homes, a few miles of paved roads and not much else, that is an ex-urb. My sister in law lives in one.

DreXxiN
Sep 2, 2009, 07:15 AM
This thread reminds me of people telling other individuals not to play gimptechers because they suck, even if they enjoy them.

Alamar
Sep 2, 2009, 05:08 PM
I have to agree here. I laugh at the "land yacht" owners. I have 2 cars one summer and good weather other for everyday. Everyday car is small good on gas no maintenance issues

Waki Miko Syamemaru!
Sep 2, 2009, 05:53 PM
I have a message for people who drive hearses. Stop drivin so damn fast! I nearly got hit 3 times! What the hell man! Knock that shit off!

Kylie
Sep 2, 2009, 07:36 PM
I drive a huge ass hummer with a boy peeing next to a "I ♥ Jesus" bumper sticker in my back window, beeyotch.

Volcompat321
Sep 2, 2009, 07:55 PM
I drive a huge ass hummer with a boy peeing next to a "I ♥ Jesus" bumper sticker in my back window, beeyotch.

Will you marry me?
:wacko:

pinkace
Sep 2, 2009, 09:59 PM
LOL.

I hate the hummer but the bumper stickers make you a-ok in my book 8)

Nitro Vordex
Sep 3, 2009, 12:38 AM
I have a message for people who drive hearses. Stop drivin so damn fast! I nearly got hit 3 times! What the hell man! Knock that shit off!
I think a hearse would be the last thing you'd want to be pulled over in, hence the fast driving.

Also, vans do have awesome sound systems. Trufax.

astuarlen
Sep 3, 2009, 01:14 AM
I think a hearse would be the last thing you'd want to be pulled over in, hence the fast driving.

There's a trick to driving with a dead body in your back seat or trunk which I've finally mastered: be zippy, but not so zippy you attract unwanted attention. You have to maximize your distance-from-town to attractiveness-to-Sheriff ratio.

Leviathan
Sep 3, 2009, 01:31 PM
I have a message for people who drive hearses. Stop drivin so damn fast! I nearly got hit 3 times! What the hell man! Knock that shit off!

Only doing his business.

The business of the dead.

AC9breaker
Sep 3, 2009, 05:18 PM
Only doing his business.

The business of the dead.


I am a snyper
Always hit the mark
Paid assassin
Working after dark
Looking through the night
Using infra-red
My target on you
Aimed at your head
$10,000 up front
$10,000 when I'm through
And I know just what to do
And ya know I'll do it too
Then I'm coming back for you
Back for you!
I do the "getting rid of"
Don't tell me why
Don't need to hear the truth
Don't need the lies
Now pay me quickly
And now we're through
It brings me great pleasure
To say my next job is you
Don't you know that
Killing is my business
And business is good (Repeat)
You'd better believe it
Solo-Poland