My Complaints About Bethesda.

[Chuck_Norris]

Fuck these douchebags. So, 360 and PC have had all that nice Fallout DLC, running around Pittburg and alien spaceships, while us PSN players have been waiting for Fallout 3 DLC for almost a year. A year. A fucking year. Do you people realize how bullshit this is? Even with Oblivion we got gypped. We DIDN'T EVEN GET ALL THE DLC. So, they said before the release date would be back in June. Well, the first Playstation Store update of June came and went. No Fallout. Soon enough June was past, and then we finally get a message "o wer dilayin til september lol"

SEPTEMBER.

The fucking 360 has had this since May. MAY! I swear, Bethesda is the most worthless piece of trash of a company I have ever seen. They can't even debug their games. Some of you may of read my last F3 rant about that fatal glitch where I would of had to restart my entire game if I hadn't had a spare save earlier. And then it took two hours to get back there.

Oh, and before anyone says something about how you should save all the time in a Bethesda game, FUCK YOU.
I shouldn't need to take precausions of keeping MY save file safe. This kind of shit is suppost to be found out in beta testing. I wonder if they even had beta testers

Bethesda has lost my money after Fallout 3. I invested too much time into my characters, so the DLC will be the last time they see any of my dollars. Thanks a lot, Bethesda. You suck.

[Nitro Vordex]

The obvious choice is to have a 360. ;)

[SpikeOtacon]

The obvious choice is to have a 360. ;)

The only answer.

[CupOfCoffee]

I dunno, I think the general awesomeness of Fallout 3 makes up for its glitches and questionable PlayStation version. Regardless, I do feel you on the save file madness. That kind of shit is pretty much unforgivable in this day and age.

[Volcompat321]

I haven't used PSN too much so far, but I like some of it.
Though I have been hearing about a lot of things bad about the whole thing.

I even get messages from random people, including some RL and friends from other games(PSU), that say "STOP SCREWING PSN USERS" or some shit like that.

I sold my 360, I hope I didn't make a bad choice. ;o

[KodiaX987]

Oh wait, so you people were entitled to DLC?

[Volcompat321]

What do you mean, you people?
Jk, always wanted to say that....
People that pay $400+ for a system, and $49.99-$59.99 a game should be entitled to DLC, yes.

[Retehi]

The obvious choice is to have a PC. ;)

Yeah, pretty much the only way.

[Aisha379]

I swear, Bethesda is the most worthless piece of trash of a company I have ever seen.

Then why are you complaining you can't give them more money and play one of their games longer?

Dur de durrrr



People that pay $400+ for a system, and $49.99-$59.99 a game should be entitled to DLC, yes.

Uh oh.

[Volcompat321]

Uh oh.

You don't think so?
Any good business makes money off their customers.
Stop satisfying them, and you have no business.
(I refuse to turn this into a PSU debate, but look at SEGA, prime example)

[SStrikerR]

You don't think so?


No, we agree with you, it's just that...well, Kodia made a rant about the subject a few months ago. So, uh, expect a long post by him sometime.

[Volcompat321]

Oh, okay! I didn't see that thread.
:o
Either way, it's always going to be the same story.
People complain, cause a company sucks. The company continues what they do, some stay, some leave.
Eventually the company will do one of two things:
Let the company die, and take it for what it's worth.
Or,
Fix their mistakes, change everything, and start making more money.
End.

[CrimsomWolf]

Fix their mistakes, change everything, and start making more money.
End.

Tell that to SEGAC

More often, they choose approach *fix few mistakes, dump a fresh coat of paint, sell it.* or *do something completely different instead.*

For a company, the cost-profit ratio is a God. Anything that doesn't cost much, but can yield a lot of money, will be pushed through.
Fixing buggy computer game is not one of those. In fact, publishing computer games is risky - you throw out large sums of money, and never know if it will pull through sufficiently or not.

Suffice to say, if company decides that fixing a game (or adding new stuff to it and what not) is not as profitable as doing something else (branching out into new field, developing a different game etc.) then there's a high probability that they either leave it, or shut down project.

As for Bethesda - maybe it's just me, but I never fell for all that Fallout hype. Plus, Oblivion showed sufficiently that as far as bug-fixing and optimization goes, these guys suck.

[Nitro Vordex]

Ironically, OP and Vol play PSU.

Does that make this rant invalid?

[Volcompat321]

Actually, Chuck quit. :/
And I play like....every once in a while (even with the sub recently activated/it was probably a mistake to activate, but I didn't pay for it)
Why wouldn't that make this rant valid? ;o

EDIT: Also, I can put up with the ridiculousness of PSU because I don't care about updates.
I have what I want, at the moment, and I can solo all the time. It's nice to have people to play with, but I don't need them. :wacko:

[ashley50]

yeah, I've had Fallout 3 for 2 months now and still waiting for the DLCs...I'm not bothered by it as if I can endure the status of the PSU updates adding another wont hurt :)

Its just how things go. If you don't like how bethesda is treating Fallout 3 for PSN...then do the same as you did on PSU. STOP PLAYING THE DAMN GAME!!!

[Niered]

Valve has made it public knowledge on multiple occasions that they hate porting things to the PS-Triple because of its apparently alien-technology-based hardware and the people that they have to go through within sony to do so. I think they even said they wont support it any more at all.

With that in mind, it makes a little more sense that bethesda is dragging its heels on such an issue. It doesn't necessarily make it forgivable but its probably just as much Sony's fault as it is bethesda's.

And now for my one alloted fanboyism: What did you expect from a console that said Playstation Home would revolutionize the console industry, only to release a 2nd Life clone in which you physically had to wait in line to play games?

[Kent]

Not to sound like fanboyism or anything... But you're playing on the PlayStation 3. Sony, when designing the system infrastructure (for both the hardware and PSN) bent over backwards to make things difficult for developers.

There's a reason that the PS3 version of The Last Remnant got cancelled.
There's a reason that the PS3 version of The Orange Box was buggered to hell.
There's a reason that the PS3 version of Fallout 3 (and numerous other games) aren't getting the DLC at the same time as other platforms.

Of course, it's not just because of the difficulties of working with Sony's systems and hardware - part of it's from a business perspective. Fewer people have PS3s than other platforms... And the other two major gaming platforms (PC and 360) have very similar hardware infrastructure, and the Xbox/Windows Live services are set up in the same way (with the option of just having a "normal" distribution channel for the PC ones... And then there's Steam).

From a business perspective, it's more feasible and has a higher profit margin to develop for the PC/360. Considering that business controls the commercial games industry, it's no surprise that they see PlayStation 3 owners as, essentially, second-rate citizens.

Which sucks, to say the least.

By no means, however, is anyone simply "entitled" to downloadable content. Also, doesn't Bethesda have a habit of releasing broken DLC, anyway? I would say that it's entirely possible that when porting it over to the 360, their programmers are beating their heads against their desks in trying to get things ported over. That seems to be the general consensus of cross-platform software engineers currently.

They can't even debug their games. Some of you may of read my last F3 rant about that fatal glitch where I would of had to restart my entire game if I hadn't had a spare save earlier. And then it took two hours to get back there.

Oh, and before anyone says something about how you should save all the time in a Bethesda game, FUCK YOU.
I shouldn't need to take precausions of keeping MY save file safe. This kind of shit is suppost to be found out in beta testing. I wonder if they even had beta testers

I'm sure they do test their stuff... However, deadlines are deadlines and producers' jobs are to get stuff out on deadlines, even if they have a few bugs or are missing some features.

The save file thing sounds like a BioWare mistake, though.

[KodiaX987]

People that pay $400+ for a system, and $49.99-$59.99 a game should be entitled to DLC, yes.

I like your ideal. Now let me tell you about the real world.

When a company publishes a game, it has zero obligation towards its customers (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163934). Too buggy? Tough shit. Not enough content? Tough shit. DLC on one system and not the other? Tough, fucking, shit.

Perhaps we all might as well be better off in the pre-Internet era, where companies did not even have the option to release updates at all.

[SStrikerR]

I like your ideal. Now let me tell you about the real world.

When a company publishes a game, it has zero obligation towards its customers (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163934). Too buggy? Tough shit. Not enough content? Tough shit. DLC on one system and not the other? Tough, fucking, shit.

Perhaps we all might as well be better off in the pre-Internet era, where companies did not even have the option to release updates at all.

I told you so.

[Volcompat321]

I like your ideal. Now let me tell you about the real world.

When a company publishes a game, it has zero obligation towards its customers (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163934). Too buggy? Tough shit. Not enough content? Tough shit. DLC on one system and not the other? Tough, fucking, shit.

Perhaps we all might as well be better off in the pre-Internet era, where companies did not even have the option to release updates at all.

Yea, I know. One can hope though.


I told you so.

Yea, yea :wacko: :D

[Powder Keg]

We've been through this already. *facepalm*

It is their responsibility (if profitable) if their job is to make profit. (or more of it). This may not be the case since the game is on PSN, and because of this:

Valve has made it public knowledge on multiple occasions that they hate porting things to the PS-Triple because of its apparently alien-technology-based hardware and the people that they have to go through within sony to do so. I think they even said they wont support it any more at all.
But overall, the no obligation argument is stupid.

I mean, could you imagine the amount of profit that could have been made if PSO/U was handled better? The amount of profit (or potential profit) lost from this company should be considered an absolute failure and the history is a direct reflection of that. That's a different subject, though.

[Akihito]

On Bethesda releasing Buggy content: Ya They are known for that. Fastforward to Early 06 when People had their Shiny new RRoD machines and a copy of The Elder Scrolls Oblivian I remember reading all sorts of reports of how Oblivion had a fatal crash that bugged out 360s. Bethesda released a patch and fixed the problem and all lived happily ever after. Then they released their "DLC" which consisted of a 5 dollar purchase to put a gd skin on a horse.....Ya..

On the Fallout 3 DLC: Why do you think its taken this long to get DLC on the PS3? Because Microsoft through a pile of money at Bethesda to hold first hand rights over the DLC. We've seen it a few times before; most notably GTA 4's DLC. Oh and it hasnt been a year , The first DLC (Operation:Anchorage) was released in January.

Dont be in too big a rush though, I own the 360 version of the game and the games always had its big and lil bugs, yet adding Broken Steel and Point Lookout added in some nasty fatal 1s in addition to messing with framerates. I've lost a savefile due to these. They've had to pull 2 DLC content packs because they made the games unplayable the day they came out. IMO them taking their sweet time with PSN versions is a good thing rather then bad, if their still bugged then a big LOL.

Honestly I wouldnt play Fallout 3 if the game wasnt so damned fun.

[KodiaX987]

But overall, the no obligation argument is stupid.

I mean, could you imagine the amount of profit that could have been made if PSO/U was handled better?

Says who? The only person who is in the position to make a clear decision about this someone with business experience. Somewhere along the line, somebody decided that a certain about of work would be given to PSO, another amount of work to Sonic, another to House of The Dead, etc. And he drew a line at the point where further effort would not be worth the money it would generate.

That's caused by two situations:

A) The developer does not have enough employees on hand to supply to the demand.
B) The game being "neglected" hasn't attracted enough customers to be seen as a viable moneymaker anymore.

Case A is straightforward. If you don't have enough people to do the job you need them to do, you put 'em wherever your profits will be the greatest. Whichever projects didn't make the cut get minimal attention. It sucks, it's bad, but there's not much that can be done.

Case B is a diplomatic incident waiting to happen, and all the devs can do is hope that the community becomes thin enough that once all support for the game is canned, the angry mob will be too small to be in any way significant. The bare minimum is done to keep the facilities up at the lowest possible cost. With proper management, this can be done without too much of a loss in cash, but it's happened before that some online games have seen a much more brutal end. You're kinda walking on eggshells here because customer reaction is oft unpredictable, and the minor annoyance of one community is treated like the barbarians at the gates by another.

[autumn]

I figure case B is the SEGA game that is not the topic of this thread in a nutshell :wacko:

[Mike]

Perhaps we all might as well be better off in the pre-Internet era, where companies did not even have the option to release updates at all.
We could still call the company up and request patchs on floppy disquettes. I did this with TES2 and Bethesda sent me the patch and even a cheat sheet telling how to turn on cheat mode. The important word here is request though. I could request, heck even demand, something from a company because there is no real need for that company to comply. They may lose a single customer because of it but that's their choice.

I suppose it's still "caveat emptor" after all these hundreds of years. Wish it wasn't though.

[ShinMaruku]

Oh wait, so you people were entitled to DLC?
Capitalism lives off delusions.
As for the topic at hand those devs have always had shoddy dlc options which is why you wait for their disks.

As for the PS3 being a nightmare, hardly, the Saturn was a nightmare (Although when you come down to it you can make better things off both) and even that is because you have to make things different and most devs hate difference and will resist it.

And please do not drag ST into anything they are the shittiest of the shit.

[KodiaX987]

We could still call the company up and request patchs on floppy disquettes. I did this with TES2 and Bethesda sent me the patch and even a cheat sheet telling how to turn on cheat mode. The important word here is request though. I could request, heck even demand, something from a company because there is no real need for that company to comply. They may lose a single customer because of it but that's their choice.

I suppose it's still "caveat emptor" after all these hundreds of years. Wish it wasn't though.

This is pretty much the best way to approach the whole thing. You let the devs know of a bug, a request or whatever - from then on, the ball's in their court and they'll do with it what they see fit. Some bugs, they'll solve. Some requests, they'll take into consideration and maybe even implement if there's enough demand for it. Other, more screwball suggestions (such as cruise missiles in Left 4 Dead) will most likely be declined.

The key is to remain courteous and transparent. If you yell at a dev, he won't take any pleasure into solving your bug if he ends up doing it. The more you yell at people, the more reluctant they'll be when you ask them to do something for you. Absolutely no one wants to code a game - or make any product for that matter - and get, as only reward, a giant pile of shit in their hands. If you are not interested in the product, you do not buy it. If you are dissatisfied with the product, you return it if you can, and/or you cease to buy from whoever made that product. Throwing a temper tantrum almost always results in the company going "you know what, we don't want you as a customer." Yes, there are instances where a company will refuse to provide a product or a service to someone because that someone is quite simply so much trouble that serving him would tarnish the company's image, from said customer's constant yelling and bickering. Each customer is an investment; not an instant gratification.

[AC9breaker]

@ OP: If it's any consolation, Mothership Zeta is fucking garbage. The best DLC they have is Point Lookout, followed by Broken Steel, The Pit, Operation Anchorage, >>>>>>>>>PSU>>>>>>>>>>Time Commando>>>>>>>>>>>>ET for Atari>>>>>>>>>>Mothership Zeta. In that order.