PA level CAP and function

[WBMike]

The Map Icons will now include a "area start" and "area goal",
you see them as a wide blue arrow, and a wide green arrow.
There will also be a "gate you have passed" icon.


Boost Monster
This concept brought over from PSZero.
You will see monsters with some aura on their feet.
They will drop even rarer items.

The Grenade's trajectory has changed.
Instead of a Parabola, it is now a straight line trajectory.
(Now you might want to google straight line trajectory..)

Photon Art Cap is now Level 30
Single Handed weapons will have 1 attack lvl 1~10
Single Handed weapons will have 2 attacks lvl 11~20

Two handed weapons will have 2 attacks lvl 1~10
Two handed weapons will have 3 attacks lvl 11~

Bullet PA extend the functionality of Accuracy, Power, Range, attribute, etcetra (he has to elaborate more on this)
The amount of bullets shot can increase at higher levels.

Technics
PSU Lvl 11-40 = PSP2 Lvl 1-30
He says not to worry about the high level technics obscuring the screen.

Also some Exchange missions for mystery items from the TGS demo. The item was called "Magic Stone- Heart Key" . Certain items you can only get at exchange missions

http://ameblo.jp/phantasy-star-portable2/entry-10358042543.html#main

He's also shooting the first TV Commercial.

Thanks mike for clarifying.

[Amherst_Wind]

I wondered why there was a Vahra in one of the videos with a circle around its feet.
Also, a straight line trajectory means it acts like a real gun now right? It fires straight but slowly falls to the floor.

[WBMike]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ajRlgehyxf4jOM:http://zebu.uoregon.edu/2003/hum399/images/orbstab.gif

I think this is how it would be just more straighter, like a straight line orbit.

It sounds almost like Pszero's Laser, except affected by gravity??

[Volcompat321]

30 PA's...
Very disappointing to me.
:(
Very.

[Akaimizu]

It really depends on how they're doing the 30 PAs level limit. Remember, we're not levelling them like PSU, so the system of how we get better PAs can't be compared to PSU's system. It also said stuff about more diversity of upgrades based on PA levels. Not simply better Accuracy/Damage/Status Effect percentage. We have to wait and see, but who knows, it could be a major upgrade.

[landman]

The new Grenade looks like a bazooka from PSØ to me, or the Inferno Bazooka but with an area of attack, I hope this time it collides on impact with the enemy, not only the ground like in PSU.

I still want to know if PA combos still exist, we have not seen any of the previous PAs, only new ones and only with one attack...

[Amherst_Wind]

Yeah it looks like they combined PSU Grenade with PS Zero Laser to create one hell of a weapon, straight line firing with area of effect damage when it hits! I don't see the falling trajectory being a problem, though I guess it depends on how fast the 'bullet' falls to earth, but it'll still be easy to fire compared to a PSU Grenade.

[panzer_unit]

I guess with the non-parabolic shots Grenades won't have awesome awesome stats and skills to make up for being really cranky little divas about hitting anything. Oh, the eliteness is gone.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

These changes run the gamut from entirely pointless to just plain stupid.

[Akaimizu]

Boost monsters are actually pretty cool. I like to think of them as minor-rare mobs. I actually liked that aspect in PSZero. So there's more to find than waiting for the rare Rappy, mini Booma Sighting, or the very very rare secret area sighting.

[Allison_W]

These changes run the gamut from entirely pointless to just plain stupid.

Not nearly as stupid as your needless negativity.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

But you have to admit, some of this is just dumb. Take the grenade thing. It's almost like they're changing things just so they can say "hey look we changed things." I'd just like to see a consistent goal they're working towards with their design, yet it keeps looking like they're just playing it by ear, throwing every idea anyone has against the wall and seeing what sticks.

[Blueblur]

Finally some new news! And it does not disappoint!

[Allison_W]

But you have to admit, some of this is just dumb. Take the grenade thing. It's almost like they're changing things just so they can say "hey look we changed things." I'd just like to see a consistent goal they're working towards with their design, yet it keeps looking like they're just playing it by ear, throwing every idea anyone has against the wall and seeing what sticks.

No, the grenade change is probably to make them less of a pain to use, rather than for no reason at all.

The consistent design goal they're working towards is to test numerous evolutionary changes, combat system improvements, and fixes for the various fiddly bits that haven't worked so well for PSU, without springing them on current PSU subscribers who might turn out to dislike them. So you're right that they're throwing a bunch of ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks. That's the point. Another poster in another thread made a very convincing argument that the next non-portable online Phantasy Star game will ultimately be influenced by which ideas they're throwing against the wall stick, and how well.

So, yes, the observation you made--that they're trying out all sorts of new things--is accurate, but your valuation of it as stupid is simply failing to see the importance of actually trying out new ideas, even if they don't necessarily make sense to your limited perspective--as well as the fact that even if no one change being made would justify such a testing project by itself, all of them taken together certainly do.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I understand what you're saying, I just don't get why they're changing things no one ever complained about. I mean, of all the things wrong with PSU, the battle system should be the least of their concerns.


I'm also talking about this in the overall context of PSU. It just seems to me that every time there's an expansion, major rebalance, or new game in the series, a bunch of changes are made, and these changes are rarely consistent. It just seems to me that the changes tend to reflect the current developer's personal tastes more than an actual consistent goal of design for the game. Take the combo system, for example. I think the only reason it's in PSP2 is because DRAGON SAKAI likes it, not because it's actually a good idea for PSU's battle mechanics, because it isn't.

I do agree they're just trying new things out to see what works and what doesn't, and that's fine, I just find it kind of obnoxious how they keep shuffling the game mechanics around every time you look away for a split-second, especially when the changes are mostly inconsequential.

[Mike]

Boost Monster
This concept brought over from PSZero.
You will see monsters with some aura on their feet.
They will drop even rarer items.


There are three different types of these boost monsters as well. This means there are now rare "rare monsters" and that means lots of hunting.

Also some Exchange missions for mystery items from the TGS demo. The items were called Heart Key and Devil Stone. Certain items you can only get at exchange missions

That was actually one item. I'd call it "Magic Stone: Heart Key" or "Magic Stone Heart Key" kind of like the Moola (Muula?) item from PSO.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Wasn't Heart Key itself in PSO too?

[Amherst_Wind]

Magic Rock: Heart Key I think, it had something to do with Magical Piece, the Wand...maybe.

[Ceresa]

Some really useless changes.

Boost monster I don't really get, they have various buffed monsters already, why don't they just up the drop rate on those, and up the damage they do too is fine. At least they have actual visual updates tailored to their design beyond some generic aura on their feet.

Grenade change is just pandering to shitty players. If you want to hit multiple targets in front of you, well hey there's lasers. If you want to hit multiple target points on one enemy with a weapon then work for your increased damage? Either get up close with shotgun or learn to position with grenade. Depending on other changes to grenades you may just never use laser again since there's so rarely more then 4 targets anyways. Bad enough all the PAs do the same shit of damage damage blowaway without homogenizing the guns even further.

And magic rock heart key has been in psu for a while now, why not tease something new? They might as well say Muktrand is here!

[Waki Miko Syamemaru!]

I'm kinda glad they made the change in trajectory with the grenades. Now before everyone gets riled up I said "kinda". Mainly because if I wanted a heavy weapon to go straight and handle mobs I'd use a lazer. But hey, it's all about testing stuff out to see whats hot and whats not.

[Mike]

Indeed. In writing, well, it's just words. Once the demo comes out we'll be able to put some real play to the words. I did enjoy lobing grenades in PSP1 though. You could strategically grenade over fences. We'll just have to play the game to see if the straight line works better though.

[Allison_W]

I understand what you're saying, I just don't get why they're changing things no one ever complained about. I mean, of all the things wrong with PSU, the battle system should be the least of their concerns.

Oh, I agree that PSU's battle system itself is certainly not broken, but I disagree that this somehow equates to no useful room for improvement. They clearly grasp that the battle system is the game's Killer App, and sometimes, you really do want to focus on your strengths rather than just leave them as they are. This isn't fixing something that isn't broken; rather, it's exploring room for improvement of their strongest selling point. If they pull it off, it could end up being the single greatest change to the game and not pointless at all.

Not every change need follow from a complaint--some can follow from bright ideas on how to make a good thing better (which is always a gamble, but can pay off... especially if you're smart enough to test it in a sandbox before taking the step of making it a fixture of the playground, which is what they're doing).

Or, you know, you could just consider that it's possible for things to be positive as opposed to merely non-negative.

I'm also talking about this in the overall context of PSU. It just seems to me that every time there's an expansion, major rebalance, or new game in the series, a bunch of changes are made, and these changes are rarely consistent. It just seems to me that the changes tend to reflect the current developer's personal tastes more than an actual consistent goal of design for the game. Take the combo system, for example. I think the only reason it's in PSP2 is because DRAGON SAKAI likes it, not because it's actually a good idea for PSU's battle mechanics, because it isn't.

To start, I'll say that I'm not sold on every change to the combat system, either, but some of them look very good and the rest I'm certainly willing to try--this is an experiment, after all, so it only makes sense that they're doing experimental things that aren't a guaranteed hit. By "combo system," I assume you mean the chain system, and that's the system I'm second most skeptical of. The first is blocking--it could work, or it could end up being a too-good, lazy way out of punishment that makes one-handed weapon and shield combos uber and everything else just not worth the trouble. The chain system just doesn't look very exciting, but I don't see quite the same potential for balance breakdown that blocking has. On the other hand, I'm looking forward to dodging (as long as it's not too easy, same as with blocking, though I see less laziness risk here), the overhaul of the PP system, technique combos for faster casting speed, and charged shots (if only because gunners really need a button other than plain ol' "shoot").

As far as the design goal behind the mechanics changes, I see one that showed up in the transition from PSO to PSU and then PSU V1 to AotI and now from PSU:AotI to PSP2: generally making the combat more stimulating, dynamic, and player-input-driven--putting more control in the hands of the player, giving them new and flashy options, giving them more to think about, and making them do all this stuff faster. (Not every step was successful, but it's the overall flow of things) PSO to PSU came with a radical pace increase and flashy new melee special attacks, and PSU V1 to AotI partially brought back PSO's combo timing in the form of Just Attacks, plus Just Counters for more twitch value and tighter hitboxes to give meaning to evasive maneuvers (though the game isn't necessarily hard enough to need it), and now PSU:AotI to PSP2 is dramatically ramping up the emphasis on player input by increasing the player's control over their own defenses (input-driven dodging and blocking), sharing the combo ability of melee attacks with techers, giving gunners a new attack option (charged shots, also notice the flashy backflip on the twin pistols charged shot animation), and restricting PP supply and recovery to require actual PP management beyond switching to a different weapon or popping a photon charge.

And again, PSP2 is pretty clearly an experiment. Most likely some of the elements won't be the greatest thing in the world, and those that turn out to be a downer will ideally not make it into future installments. The idea is to find out which are downers and which are awesome.

I do agree they're just trying new things out to see what works and what doesn't, and that's fine, I just find it kind of obnoxious how they keep shuffling the game mechanics around every time you look away for a split-second, especially when the changes are mostly inconsequential.

Shuffling game mechanics around? Well of course they're going to try new things, and it's not as though adjusting to new mechanics is a particularly awful imposition.

On the flip side, I'm not sure what "inconsequential changes" you're talking about. If you're talking about the changes being made to the combat system, the only one that seems like it might be truly extraneous is the chain system, and if enough players think so, it may well be assigned to the Failed Experiment bin after PSP2 anyway. Some of the other changes are relatively small (techer combos seems kind of minor), but that doesn't mean they won't matter--they just won't be earth-shaking, and not everything has to be. But I don't see things like increased difficulty, blocking, dodging, charged shots, necessary PP management, and the like being inconsequential at all; done right, there's amazing potential for much more involved, immersive, and genuinely challenging (the good kind, where you have the tools you need to tackle the challenge, if you, the player, can use them effectively) battles than even the current game has. Granted, that last one isn't saying much these days, but it explains why they're trying something new.

Some really useless changes.

Please continue and explain.

Boost monster I don't really get, they have various buffed monsters already, why don't they just up the drop rate on those, and up the damage they do too is fine. At least they have actual visual updates tailored to their design beyond some generic aura on their feet.

I can't read moon runes, so I'm going by what I've heard, but there are a couple of possibilities here. One, if they have predictable and reasonably common spawns and boosted stats like buffed monsters do, then there you go, they're a buffed monster with buffed drops. If buffed monsters have been replaced by boost monsters, there's your new buffed monster. If both buffed and boost monsters are in but boost monsters are rare spawns and/or don't have buffed stats, then there's your difference. As for the aura on their feet, those are easier to distinguish on little screens.

Grenade change is just pandering to shitty players. If you want to hit multiple targets in front of you, well hey there's lasers. If you want to hit multiple target points on one enemy with a weapon then work for your increased damage? Either get up close with shotgun or learn to position with grenade. Depending on other changes to grenades you may just never use laser again since there's so rarely more then 4 targets anyways. Bad enough all the PAs do the same shit of damage damage blowaway without homogenizing the guns even further.

You mean the same shitty players they'll be turning around and smacking with general increased difficulty, mandatory PP management instead of constant PA spam, player-reaction-dependent defense systems (dodging and blocking), and the like? Sounds like a fair trade to me.

Do those grenades even explode on impact with enemies as opposed to the ground? Because if they don't, the trajectory may be easier to predict, but you still have to keep your distance and do so--they still wouldn't be the same as laser cannons. If they do explode on contact with an enemy, then I imagine the difference between a laser cannon and a grenade launcher is the difference between a line tech and a Ra-tech, as long as the blast radius isn't awful.

And magic rock heart key has been in psu for a while now, why not tease something new? They might as well say Muktrand is here!

For JP players, I dunno (and admittedly, they seem to be targeting JP players at the moment). The regional servers don't have it yet, however, and I wouldn't be surprised if they still don't when PSP2 comes out here (assuming it does).

[Mike]

I can't read moon runes, so I'm going by what I've heard, but there are a couple of possibilities here. One, if they have predictable and reasonably common spawns and boosted stats like buffed monsters do, then there you go, they're a buffed monster with buffed drops. If buffed monsters have been replaced by boost monsters, there's your new buffed monster. If both buffed and boost monsters are in but boost monsters are rare spawns and/or don't have buffed stats, then there's your difference. As for the aura on their feet, those are easier to distinguish on little screens.
There hasn't been any word on if buffed monsters are out or not, but I don't know what the problem with boosted monsters is. Buffed mobs aren't rare. Boosted ones are. It's just like prefixs in western ARPGs. Instead of a plain old zombie, you get Fetted Zombies or Blazing Zombies or Disco Zombies.

Boosted monsters also have higher stats than monsters with buffs. So buffed boosted monsters are a huge pain, at least in PS0 they were. Buffed boosted RARE monsters, especially those Blaze Hellions, are really tough. In PS0.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

The "inconsequential changes" are things like limiting techs to level 30 but making them functionally 11-40. What is the point? Seriously, what is the point? I understand leveling techs takes way longer than it really should, but they already "fixed" that by making PAs level up by disks instead of uses. So then, why bother to dick around with level caps and tech strengths? I guess it could have something to do with the different type layout, but that also seems like an instance of fixing something that was only marginally broken by tearing it all up and starting over instead of making some small adjustments to fix it. Case in point, leave PAs leveling up through use, just make it go faster. Leave the types the way they were, just make some stat changes so they're actually balanced.


Oh, and the chain system as well as the "mandatory PP management" is another thing I'm very skeptical about. Instead of limiting PA use that way, they should have just made sure all the different PAs were well balanced, so they would all be worth using. I know some people think it's a good thing they are preventing PA spam, but personally, I thinking spamming PAs is half of what makes the game fun, and it would be even more fun if I had reason to spam a wide variety of PAs.


Dodge roll and guard and stuff I don't really care about. Unless they make the enemies significantly more difficult, they'll just be yet another in a long line of battle "improvements" that make an already ridiculously easy game even more absurdly easy.




That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Maybe it will turn out better in the long run, who knows, but that doesn't mean I can't be an overly skeptical asshat in the meantime.

[DarK-SuN]

A little reminder about something Ffuzzy mentioned: PSP1 also had a PA cap of level 30, but it was indeed limited to the third tier of a PA's capabilities.
This is their way of keeping PA levels simplified (only going till level 30) for a portable game, while allowing for the use of their stronger renditions, tier 4 in this case.
I'm perfectly ok with this to be honest, but that's me.

[Allison_W]

The "inconsequential changes" are things like limiting techs to level 30 but making them functionally 11-40. What is the point? Seriously, what is the point? I understand leveling techs takes way longer than it really should, but they already "fixed" that by making PAs level up by disks instead of uses. So then, why bother to dick around with level caps and tech strengths? I guess it could have something to do with the different type layout, but that also seems like an instance of fixing something that was only marginally broken by tearing it all up and starting over instead of making some small adjustments to fix it. Case in point, leave PAs leveling up through use, just make it go faster. Leave the types the way they were, just make some stat changes so they're actually balanced.

I suppose there's as much point to making PAs run from 1-30 as there would be to making them run from 1-40 if they could get all the differentiation they needed out of three tiers instead of four and they're overhauling the stats for each level anyway (I would imagine they are). Three tiers weren't enough for PSU due to things like the third part of a two-handed weapon's combo not kicking in until the third tier, which meant you couldn't, say, give the wartecher a melee PA limit one tier down from the fortefighter's without taking away that third attack. (Whoops!) However, PA levels 11-20 appear to be the new 21-30, given the fact that two-handed weapon PAs now get the third part of their combo at 11 instead of 21, and the designers may have found that the distinction between limiting a class to (in PSU terms) level 10 or level 20 PAs in a given category just wasn't meaningful enough to keep.

As far as types go, they may be whittled down and simplified because it's a portable game, as was the case with the original PSP, which had only five advanced classes. Or, since they're adding customization not unlike the GAS system we're seeing on the JP servers, it may have turned out that the individual hybrid classes just aren't needed anymore and hybridization is just as easily or better served by customizing a base class in ways like allocation of points to increased PA caps and stats outside of those your class excels in by default, or possibly starting with the braver and making appropriate modifications from that starting point. Or it's possible their hybrid support aside from this new "braver" thingamajog just sucks, but there simply isn't enough information to justify panic yet.

Oh, and the chain system as well as the "mandatory PP management" is another thing I'm very skeptical about. Instead of limiting PA use that way, they should have just made sure all the different PAs were well balanced, so they would all be worth using. I know some people think it's a good thing they are preventing PA spam, but personally, I thinking spamming PAs is half of what makes the game fun, and it would be even more fun if I had reason to spam a wide variety of PAs.

In fairness, I think the idea wasn't just to make a wider variety of PAs useful, but to give basic attacks a purpose beyond that one whack you take to JA the first part of your PA combo (or, in some cases, to JA Zubba or Tornado Dance or Jabroga or whatever). I wouldn't be surprised if they're rebalancing the PAs while they're at it.

Dodge roll and guard and stuff I don't really care about. Unless they make the enemies significantly more difficult, they'll just be yet another in a long line of battle "improvements" that make an already ridiculously easy game even more absurdly easy.

I'm stoked about dodge roll (I'm not looking forward to blocking as much, but if it's not broken, it'll be a welcome addition as well). They've said they'll be increasing the difficulty quite a bit in various ways, such as the aforementioned rationing of PP, removing scape dolls from NPC shops and making them less common finds, scaling difficulty levels upwards to challenge multiple players in multi-mode, and so forth. Hell, they're even working on making higher-end monsters more dangerous in PSU proper--which is a good thing, as long as they aren't just ramping it up so far as to require players to buy Guardians Cash equipment just to keep up, though I wouldn't be surprised.

Of course, they might end up increasing the difficulty too much or not increasing it enough, but that's a risk with any such change. I do hope it's challenging enough that dodging, blocking, and otherwise using the game's player-skill-dependent features, old and new, effectively are rewarded; good challenge is all about giving you the tools you need and then making you use them.

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Maybe it will turn out better in the long run, who knows, but that doesn't mean I can't be an overly skeptical asshat in the meantime.

As long as you're aware of it.

[WBMike]

Well sakai did say to watch for a new Famitsu.
Introducing Ursula Rolan (Loran) voiced by Atsuko Tanaka and Chelsea voiced by Haruka Tomatsu

4 New SUV
Vivian Punisher top left
Air Ride Cluster
Bigs Inpact
Flame Puncher

[spoiler-box]http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/12.jpg[/spoiler-box]
from gigen (http://blog.livedoor.jp/od3/archives/51625876.html)

[Amherst_Wind]

Is that supposed to be an Ill Gill in the very upper right?

Also Ursula's full outfit is so hot!

Also that Sand Rappy looks sad... :(

[WBMike]

it's either Illgill or Illkill :O
Lol more likely IllGill.

[Maelixius]

Chelsea and Ursula are the best looking NPCs hands down.

[Astarin]

Technics
PSU Lvl 11-40 = PSP2 Lvl 1-30
He says not to worry about the high level technics obscuring the screen.


This is fantastic news. In their current state, technics are so small and useless before level 11, as to be barely functional. I mean, skills and bullets are weak at low levels, but they're still fully functional (other than having only the first combo). Technics have tiny range and radius at that level, to the point where it's difficult to even hit more than one or two targets with a Ra, Dam or Gi technic.

In addition, I'm sure this turns off many players from being a force - technics are simply unsatisfying to use until they level up a bit. Players like the flashy magic effects. Even if they aren't stronger, just having them be bigger and prettier is fantastic news.

[Touka]

Well sakai did say to watch for a new Famitsu.
Introducing Ursula Rolan (Loran) voiced by Atsuko Tanaka and Chelsea voiced by Haruka Tomatsu



*voice actor nerd mode*Atsuko Tanaka(Major Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell,c'mon everyone knows her) (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=547) and Haruka Tomatsu(Nagi from Kannagi) (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=63126).I'm impressed that Sega got such quality voice actors for PSP 2.

But anyway nice update overall.It's nice that Viviene's SUV is in this game since it wasn't in PSP 1 and the new weapons are nicely designed.

[RemiusTA]

But you have to admit, some of this is just dumb. Take the grenade thing. It's almost like they're changing things just so they can say "hey look we changed things." I'd just like to see a consistent goal they're working towards with their design, yet it keeps looking like they're just playing it by ear, throwing every idea anyone has against the wall and seeing what sticks.

They are very much working towards a goal. Just because you're too dense to realize it...




The Map Icons will now include a "area start" and "area goal",
you see them as a wide blue arrow, and a wide green arrow.
There will also be a "gate you have passed" icon.

Lets stop people from getting lost! Oh wow this is completely useless


Boost Monster
This concept brought over from PSZero.
You will see monsters with some aura on their feet.
They will drop even rarer items.Almost a double equilivent of a "rare enemy". Gives your eyes something to look forward to seeing while playing? Oh we dont need that, its completely useless



The Grenade's trajectory has changed.
Instead of a Parabola, it is now a straight line trajectory.
(Now you might want to google straight line trajectory..)Because REAL grenade launchers shoot in a parabola-based trajectory, espically when their barrels are fixed at the same (horizontal) angle as the sights. Making the weapon make more sense is definately completely useless amirite




Two handed weapons will have 2 attacks lvl 1~10
Two handed weapons will have 3 attacks lvl 11~

Way to make photon arts (espically Double Saber, Sword and axe PA's) not COMPLETELY suck when you first obtain them. No use to this whatsoever either, lets continue to pointlessly spam Absolute Dance's shitty first combo and feel PROUD when we finally make it fucking useful.


Bullet PA extend the functionality of Accuracy, Power, Range, attribute, etcetra (he has to elaborate more on this)
The amount of bullets shot can increase at higher levels.Giving you more depth and reasons to level your bullets, supar useless and no kind of gameplay use at all

Technics
PSU Lvl 11-40 = PSP2 Lvl 1-30
He says not to worry about the high level technics obscuring the screen.Oh lets fix the biggest technic problem in the game, the absolutely horrible gap between form jumps, and make it more akin to the PSO style where they sort of variably change form. OH and lets fix the technic blinding problem too.


There isnt a useless or non-significant update on this page. Quit whining already.