story question.

[SirTopps]

which came first pso or psz?

i thought psz was a prequel but then some people are telling me that pso happened then 200 years later there was psz but i thought psu was 100 after pso. so im so confused.

[Rasputin]

PSO came first.

[SirTopps]

i mean story wise.

[Rasputin]

PSO came first.

[SirTopps]

now youre just repeating yourself.

i still think psz came first until i get some hard evidence.

[Hyleus]

Phantasy Star Zero came first. I've played through the whole story, and from what I know, the Newmans were supposedly wiped off the face of the earth. Now when you play through the story, you find out why.

Another important clue, is that when you defeat Mother Trinity, DarkFalz is born. You defeat him though right? The thing is, In PSO, they don't realize that Dark Falz is still alive, and that the DarkFalz was the root of the problem that existed in the PSO.

This is just my guess at it, not much solid proof, but, I can definitely see a resemblance to episode I-II when I played through this game.

[Rasputin]

I believe that PSO came first. I had to have come first. Why? Red Ring Rico that's why.

[Gemel]

Phantasy Star Zero came first. I've played through the whole story, and from what I know, the Newmans were supposedly wiped off the face of the earth. Now when you play through the story, you find out why.

Another important clue, is that when you defeat Mother Trinity, DarkFalz is born. You defeat him though right? The thing is, In PSO, they don't realize that Dark Falz is still alive, and that the DarkFalz was the root of the problem that existed in the PSO.

This is just my guess at it, not much solid proof, but, I can definitely see a resemblance to episode I-II when I played through this game.
Dark Falz was already in Mother Trinity, he was what is speculated to have caused her to start killing everything. It's not really said if the Dark Falz in PSO is the same as the one in PSZ. But we know that the on in PSO was sealed on the ruins.

You discover one of the Dark Shrine missions that the Earth in PSZ used to be called Coral, Coral was the planet that the people from PSO came from. That's the solid proof, I don't want to get a picture of the dialogue of it since I'm not that bored. xP So because of this, PSO came first with PSZ second.

[Trina]

PSZ came first. You'd have to be retarded for not noticing when they story included how newmans were FIRST CREATED. Also booma ORIGIN, etc.

[Rasputin]

God created newmans, not PS0.

[Hyleus]

You discover one of the Dark Shrine missions that the Earth in PSZ used to be called Coral, Coral was the planet that the people from PSO came from.

But how does this make any sense. If the races of PSO came from the planet Coral you play on PSZ, then wouldn't it make more sense that PSZ is more like an Origins type of game?

[Gemel]

PSZ came first. You'd have to be retarded for not noticing when they story included how newmans were FIRST CREATED. Also booma ORIGIN, etc.
You can believe what you want, it's fine.

[Gemel]

But how does this make any sense. If the races of PSO came from the planet Coral you play on PSZ, then wouldn't it make more sense that PSZ is more like an Origins type of game?What do you mean by Origins type game? When you have a chance try playing that Dark Shrine mission, it explains a bunch of stuff, I think it's the second to last mission, not including the tower.

[SquashDemon]

Okay, guys, this is slowly turning into a flame war, let me TRY and clarify the best I can

*ahem* Alright, in PSO, the Pioneer ships leave Coral which is on the decline in hopes of colonizing a new planet, since they kinda uuh...ruined their old one, Now, the seat of the government as well as a good chunk of the population STAYED on Coral, at least a third, from what I gather from PSO's intro, right? Now why didn't they all go over on Pioneer three? We remember that right? Huge explosion, everyone from P1 missing, Dark Falz causing shit to get all up in your level 1 grill with their booma claws? My guess, Coral said "Oh shit, alright, new plan" and started the mother project, which, was also beamed over to P2, so they could control them, see, the PSO government are kinda dicks like that. So While they're doing that, something happens, something bad. Dark Falz, being able to invade computers (Calus quests anyone?) slipped into Elenor during the Soul of Steel quest, hence causing the Mother program to make everything explode and go batshit, Chances are this hit Coral A LOT harder than P2, as Dark Falz seemed to have made his way over there and invade the Mother Core AI, Trinity. Trinity goes Genicidal, and Contact with Coral is lost forever, from that, you can fill in the blanks with PSZ's own dialogue right?

This would essentially make PSZ neither a sequel nor a prequel, but a side-story.

Well, that's at least the conclusions I can draw, guys, we can act like mature human beings here, you don't need to be king dick to someone with a different opinion, and please, please PLEASE offer REASONS why you believe what you do about the storyline, otherwise you don't exactly inspire the image of intelligence.

[Trina]

God created newmans, not PS0.http://ultraxs.com/image-C910_4B178162.gif

Alright that was just the most ridiculous answer ever. Is this supposed to be a joke?

[Trina]

Post.But it's been said by this point in game that new lifeforms (hostiles) developed by mom Trin in order to limit the growth of human population.

At the point of PSZ, booma origin was considered a new strain of "hostiles". Your theory would imply that boomas were around (pioneer 1 dies) before the booma origin existed (200 years later after coral gets shot up).

[SquashDemon]

Objectively, how would you say boomas traveled from Coral to Ragol?
Also, the Reason for Mother Trinity's development was due to the ecological decline of Coral, the reason Pioneers 1 and 2 left Coral in the first place.

Perhaps the Booma "Origin" is merely there to say that it is Mother Trinity's first stab at such creatures? and that they are meant to evolve into something similar to the Boomas of Ragol? P2 and Coral exchanged Data, she would at least know of the Booma Creatures. Using the schematic of a pre-existing Hostile would make sense to a computer in a "deity" position.

[Trina]

From what I see, since the people on PSZ were still relatively primitive compared to PSO, it could've taken them a fair amount of time to reinvent/rediscover the technology that was needed. That time would be enough for booma origins have gone into the booma stage of evolution.

Also, the expansion project happened because their planet was dieing again which means the civilization on Coral must've developed to the point where the hostiles were no more than native critters rather than problems for them. It could be very likely they simply had a bunch of different animals on board the different pioneer ships.

Falz Spawns every once awhile. We don't know if multiple instances of Falz at different places at the same time is possible, but if it isn't the all the time between PSZ and PSO would still be enough in that way.

[SquashDemon]

Evolution can take -millions- of years.
And Rico's Message Capsules in PSO flat-out SAY those creatures are native to Ragol, not Coral.

There's no evidence to support there were any animals on P1 or P2, as for multiple instances of Falz, I'm actually saying just that, Falz was on Ragol, AND Coral, at the same time, he was also Olga Flow, remember?

Not to mention Humanity is pretty adaptive, remember the whole planet is still a small smattering of Cities with barely any communications at all, Not to mention they already -HAD- everything they have today as a race, because their ancestors kinda used the technology already in place, Sabers and such, and simple machines like levers and pullys were not exactly strange and alien to them, they weren't reduced to caveman status, they would have retained their knowledge of at the very least how to -use- what technology had survived the Photon Eraser.

Then there's the fact Trinity had Reve's squad freaking out about the ruins. Why? Stuff was so much more advanced over there! PSO level advanced! The ruins were probably places the Photon Eraser missed. Hence why Reve was sent to destroy them.

[Trina]

That sounds plausible. Or we might both just be overanalyzing something SEGA didn't pay much attention to when they made.

[GUARDIANDNL]

phantasy star online came first... i bet that pioner priyect was the first step to save the mankind from coral in case that mother trinity coudln´t do a thing to save coral, psz takes the point of view of the survivors from coral, the few who manage to live through all the mother trinity war.

also it makes more sense that way... how it is possible that pso takes place after psz???? simple, it can´t....need proof??? well... the ruins...paru also the tower, all that tecnology looks like more pso than a futuer psz specially when in psz all civilization looks like a western, and you tell me that the future from psz will call coral to earth again???? doubt it...

forget how tecnological seems phantasy star online, that not means that psz is a prequel,
when every civilization is wipe out everything start again that includes technology...

[SirTopps]

both planets could have boomas. but anyway i think psz came first because it has zero in the title . ill just stick to that. looks like i might have to play the game and really pay attention. seems like everyone is divided on this.

[Vayne]

OK.

The storylines are obviously connected. What's really being debated is when the gameplay in each game happens. PSZ's story starts before PSO but your character does not come in till after the events of PSO. And I believe the creators put a great deal of thought into the stories. PSO haves a lot of little things hidden through out it. So to summarize:
Failing enviroment>Mother created>Pioneer 1 leaves>mother gets infected>pioneer 2 leaves> mother causes the great blank> pioneer 2 fights off Dark Falz>200 some years later your char in PSZ come on the scene... make sense? It's not that hard when you lay out your facts.

[SirTopps]

ill come back to tell you you are wrong. 0 is before one.

[DanMalak]

Now where does C.A.R.D Revolution take place in all this mess of a storyboard? xD
Iirc, it was 20 years after PSO I&II

[Hatrix]

Red Saber being in the game settles this for me, Rico made these weapons... the description reads "A saber made of entirely red parts. It is crude and appears to be a prototype" How would these weapons come to be if they didnt exist yet. And as far as psz coming first I see no proof just speculation

[Niered]

Red Saber being in the game settles this for me, Rico made these weapons... the description reads "A saber made of entirely red parts. It is crude and appears to be a prototype" How would these weapons come to be if they didnt exist yet. And as far as psz coming first I see no proof just speculation

With this logic, the PSZ takes place before the original PS games, since it has Rika's Claw.

Honestly. Weapon's have no bearing whatsoever on storyline placing, theyre there for fanservice, pure and simple.

Also? Hatrix, this thread is older than hell, and bumping things like that isn't a great idea. In fact it can get your reported.

[SquashDemon]

That sounds plausible. Or we might both just be overanalyzing something SEGA didn't pay much attention to when they made.

Heh, I'm pretty damn sure of that, ST doesn't do well with continuity. Not really since Old-School PS.

Also, Niered, Was Rika's claw destroyed at some point in the game she's from? I haven't actually played and finished all the old-school PS games yet, embarrassingly as it is.

And I realize that the weapons don't have any bearing on the plot, just FYI, heck, s'far's I know Retro PS and PSO/PSZ are two separate storylines, since as I recall, they take place on different planets, right?

[Zufield]

Hatrix, this thread is older than hell, and bumping things like that isn't a great idea. In fact it can get your reported.
So a thread created four days ago is "older than hell", now?

What kind of substance have you been smoking that would distort your perception of the passage of time like that?

[KillingMoon]

Since it's already bumped.... I recall reading in an interview (or maybe a review?) that ST intended the 0 to indicate that it was sort of a fresh start in the PSO legacy. It makes most sense that it's happening either after or in parallel to the events of PSO. Or, it may be that the fresh-start means they made a game and decided to have a canon shift to go along with it.

[Vayne]

The two games are definitely connected to some extent, but to what is definitely unclear. And even if it got bumped it seems to be back now!

[mid Knight]

I gernally believe that PSZ is before PSO. My reason is that I remember (although not 100% sure) that in PSO Ruin in one of Red Ring Rico log that she said that the ruin is in fact one huge spaceship to imprision Dark Falz and was send away from some civilation as a way of getting rid of Dark Falz well getting rid of their problem and given it to another. This civilation could be the one from PSZ.
All of you know that after completing the story or got the basic know now of any quests in PSZ involve fighting the boss again. Maybe the characters got fed up of defeating Dark Falz over and over that they somehow build that spaceship and imprision him etc.
The plot holes (that I can think of at the moment) of this theroy is that they wouldn't be that selfish to dump their problem to another civilation? or they can even build a ship that huge. Also the aesthetics in the PSO Ruin doesn't match anything we have seen in PSZ (unless that was Dark Falz doing) and speaking of which, the apperance of Falz from PSZ to PSO are very different if they are the one and the same. If they are the same one maybe Dark Falz has finally seen itself in the mirror and realise how stupid it look and alter it's apperance to make itself scary.
Anyway don't take my theroy too seriously as I don't consider myself to be right of this topic.

[Vayne]

The Dark Falz issue is probably the major plot problem. As some people have mentioned before, Dark Falz through out PS is not necessarily the same dark falz each time. Furthermore. every incarnation of Dark Falz has looked differently anyway.

[Sinue_v2]

now youre just repeating yourself.

That's what happens when you're right.


i still think psz came first until i get some hard evidence.

Play the game, see for yourself. If you don't want to wade through the storyline, I'm working on a script where you can read all the dialog in the game. There's a lot of text though, so it'll be about a month before it's finished. Human storyline first... but overall there's not much difference. Beyond that, once I get the three main race storylines done I'll start on the side-quest dialogs. It's in one of those that it's revealed that Earth in PSZero used to named Coral. The same Coral from PSO.

And it's not explicit - but "Mother Trinity" is the prototype "Mother Project" which was started there after a meteorite containing D-Cellular activity impacted in (I think) PSO Ep IV. This is what the true purpose of the Pioneer Projects were - as a cover to find and exploit the source of the D-Cellular anomaly. After Pioneer 1 landed on Ragol, a new MOTHER project was started using the Calus, Vol Opt, and Olga AIs. After Flowen breeched the ruins and returned injured - Osto transported Olga and Flowen to Gal De Val seabed to merge the two in an attempt to hasten the progress of the MOTHER project using D-Cells and a controllable human host - which created Olga Flow. Olga Flow then hacked Vol Opt and took control of the Mines facility and attempted to hack Calus until you and Elly Person rescued him in PSO v.1. He was reconstructed from backup data and served as a control computer for the Pioneer 2 Labs. Eventually, he became the only AI of the three to merge with MOTHER at the Gal De Val towers and slow transformation into a "Mother Trinity Like" organic computer AI began. I don't think it was ever mentioned again in Blue Burst or Ep III C.A.R.D that took place a generation after PSO Blue Burst.

After the destruction of Olga Flow and Dark Falz caused by Rico and Flowen's trapped souls exerting influence over Falz (and the creation of Endu & the GERM), the D-Cellular material on Coral that served as the evolution factor for Mother Trinity became the last vestige of Dark Falz's consciousness. It corrupted Trinity and lead to the Great Blank - an event that created more than enough negative emotion (pain, suffering, chaos, hatred) for it to feed and grow in strength. Which then allowed it to manifest at the end of PSZero after defeating Trinity.(A similar event happened in PSO Ep I, when Pioneer 2 entered orbit - Falz consumed the souls of Pioneer 1, creating the negative emotion on Pioneer 2 upon which it feeds. He left Rico alive to investigate the explosion and disappearances - drawing her into the Ruins and beating her down enough to possess and consume her as a host)

When Falz lost it's corporeal anchor in Trinity, he tries to seduce the player in PSZero to be his new host unsuccessfully. Being a consciousness, a god, it cannot be destroyed. So it continually resurrected Trinity in an attempt to lure the emotionally broken Reve into the Dark Shrine and be that anchor under the assumption that he'd be able to resurrect his lost "Mother".

So that's where PSZero ends, with Falz continually resurrecting and forcing people to fight Trinity until he can find a new host... or until PS-Divided-By-Zero (II) comes along and adds more to the story.

I speculate that Falz can be defeated with normal weapons, because he is a weaker manifestation similar to the one first released by Lassic when he was seduced by the promise of immortality. He was one of those "Good Men" that are corrupted to absolute evil by Falz's will. He needed the immortality to ensure the peaceful unified planetary government established by Waizz Landale did not fracture into Civil War in powerplays for the throne after the Landale monarchy's bloodline seemingly was ended. He was mislead into tearing the weakened dimensional seal - and his possession lead to the events of PSI. So as a lesser manifestation, Falz can be defeated by normal weapons (silver, steel, photonic) - but it takes Nei weapons to defeat Dark Force. (except in PSIV where the dimensional seal is so far torn that Dark Force itself is weakened for the sake of redundancy necessary for finishing the job despite hero's who may try to defeat it.

But as the last vestige of the Profound Darkness's will after it's destruction in PSIV, Dark Falz in PSO and PSZero cannot be destroyed. Just it's physical form. That's why it needed an anchor like Rico and Trinity - to re-form the core of the Profound Darkness. (Based on the PD's final form being female, and Falz's penchant for seducing female hosts - Rico & maybe Trinity) The cycle will always continue, because Falz apparently cannot be defeated... just... "dispersed & weakened". The only thing that might be able to finally destroy Falz is the destruction of the Great Light. Being elemental opposites, so long as one exists - the other will as well. Two manifestations of the same being that separated and warred until one was sealed away. After sealing it's evil side, the Great Light vanished from the Galaxy/Dimension/Existence (Le Roof in PSIV). This is also based on prototype PSV storylines that never made it into a full game, but may have served as an inspirational springboard when resurrecting the series for PSO. The prominent storyline discussed in the PSCompendium revolved around an Esper youth having to seek out and destroy the Great Light in order to prevent the resurrection of Dark Falz. This tidbit is also referenced in PSO in the ruins from Rico's Message pods as she tries to translate the alien writing. See my sig for the line used.

(It's possible that the Photon energies in PSO/PSU ARE the Great Light... and so long as their use is promoted, it won't be destroyed. It also explains why PSU's A-Photon reactors attract the SEED. High concentrations of A-Photons may be seen as manifestations of the Great Light - which Dark Falz/Force/PD attacks and attempts to corrupt, draining it's power, as an extension of their initial battle now that it's free of the Algol Seal)

This doesn't mean that Sonic Team is lying when they say that each series (PS, PSU, PSO) are in different universes/dimensions and are disconnected. Being that the Profound Darkness was trapped in a dimensional pocket - that pocket could border any number of other dimensions and cause manifestations there. -IF- the spaceship ruins on Ragol are the Alissa III/Neo Palm - then PSIII's storyline may still accommodate them since in one of the endings, the Alissa III entered a black hole and warps back in time to modern-day Earth (setting the stage for PSII). Black Holes are also popularly theorized to be links to other dimensions. With the destruction of Palm, the PD could have sent out multiple DF's aboard the escaping worldships - some "tens" of which escaped the Algol system altogether according to wreckage data in PSIV. In one of PSIII's endings, the Alisa III meets up with Neo-Palm who conspicuously know who Dark Falz is... suggesting perhaps that those ships went off course on purpose to ensure the PD's survival if it's gambit for freedom in Algol were to fail - a possibility since Algol is the only known system in which guardians (such as Le Roof) were given the necessary artifacts to bestow upon the Guardians (Human, Motavian, Dezolian) that would allow them to defeat the PD. It's also the only known system in which anybody knows anything about Dark Falz/Force/PD via Dezolian religion and the Espers on Dezolis.

So make of that what you will. Is that evidence enough for you question, and other questions you might have?

[Sinue_v2]

With this logic, the PSZ takes place before the original PS games, since it has Rika's Claw.

Honestly. Weapon's have no bearing whatsoever on storyline placing, theyre there for fanservice, pure and simple.

Also? Hatrix, this thread is older than hell, and bumping things like that isn't a great idea. In fact it can get your reported.

As much as I look for connections and tie tenuous loose ends together, I agree with this. Weapons have no bearing on the storyline, nor are grounds for storyline connections. They're just fanservice. Recurring enemies are the same deal - such as Rappies, GrassAssassins, Pan Arms, Boomas, etc. Including, likely, even Dark Falz/Force/Dulk Fakis etc.

[Sinue_v2]

Evolution can take -millions- of years.
And Rico's Message Capsules in PSO flat-out SAY those creatures are native to Ragol, not Coral.

Phantasy Star does not recognize the Modern Synthesis. Popular culture in general is woefully misinformed about how evolution works. Real science does not make for good fiction. Refer to Michael Crichton's statements on this... since he was often faced with the task of trying to mix real science with fiction plots that made good narratives. It's where he gets his undue reputation for being "anti-science". He wasn't... but he was a writer first and foremost.

As for Boomas being native to Ragol - again, monster appearances are not indicative of connections. There more fanservice than anything. If you want to make a connection... I guess you could always fall back on Pioneer III which Panganini(sp?) mentioned in Ep I & II but was dropped from the storyline. It was en-route to Ragol with the second wave of refugees. It could have left again for Coral after arrival - taking some of the local wildlife back with it. Genetically manipulated as pets or something. Or perhaps they were a rare species on Ragol that Rico didn't recognize carried aboard Pioneer 1 which Osto or Falz or residue from Del Rol's venom or whatever happened to mutate.

Remember, Rappies are on Coral & Ragol too - and the actions & dialog of that one scientist from A Fake in Yellow seem to indicate they are not from Coral either. Further, Ragolian Rappies are apparently able to speak and are friendly when not influenced to violence by Falz's influence. PSZero rappies are just random enemies and so far nothing more.

Fanservice.

[SquashDemon]

a-yup, that satisfies pretty much any questions I had, I'd also been wondering about what episode four brought to the table, having never been able to play it myself.

Good job, rar.

I still can't get over how you were able to link -EVERY-SINGLE-PHANTASY-STAR-GAME- together so neatly.

[SirTopps]

looks like you guys are having fun with this one. ill just wait until theres a wiki about it.

[Niered]

Yeah I'm gonna go with Sinue on this whole deal. It's pretty evident to anyone here that he's done a good amount of research on this, and I'd say he's the closest to an expert that weve got.

[Weeaboolits]

Rappies obviously exist everywhere due to their amazing adaptation that allows them to not actually be killed no matter how hard you hit them, all you can do is knock them out at best.