How far behind are the US servers from Japan?

[Jinxpalm]

Just got the game again after having quit years ago and just wondering how the updates are looking. Looking through item lists and what not it seems to Japan servers are so far ahead of the US servers? Will they ever catch up or are they not updating the US servers too much anymore?

[ashley50]

like 6-8 months? XD HAHAHA...maybe more :P

[Shou]

Not srure but somewhere around 11 months.

[RemiusTA]

Just got the game again after having quit years ago and just wondering how the updates are looking. Looking through item lists and what not it seems to Japan servers are so far ahead of the US servers? Will they ever catch up or are they not updating the US servers too much anymore?

If this is the year 2009, Japan is in like 2054.

Seriously though, every update that is not the supplemental update draws us closer to not obtaining it. Although now that PSP2 is out, this game is all but obsolete completely. I wouldn't be surprised if you guys dont get it at all.

[neilp4453]

Head over to psupedia and check out the upcoming page. Everything you see there is what we ain't got. It is a huge list.

[Xefi]

Will they ever catch up or are they not updating the US servers too much anymore?

Oh...we'll catch up to Japan alright. Not in a quick pace, a rather
SUPER slow one, but we'll eventually catch up unless PSU die in its
journey half way, then there's nothing we can do after that. :turtle:

[Keilyn]

So far behind the apocalypse has been done on over multiple times on their side.

[Fox2Tails]

It's wrong to call it the 'US server'

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Yeah, it should be called the 'Reject Server'.

[Alamar]

I can go on about this subject. If I do go off ranting about it I will end up getting banned for sure. So knowing that I will keep it simple as possible.

We are about 11 months behind so psupedia says.
One server up to date two so far behind I am convinced at this point we won't ever see some of the stuff.
The reason above is why I don't get all giddy over JP updates.
There is NOTHING that can be said by anyone to excuse this.
Fin.

[Powder Keg]

Trust me, the population shows that there's no excuse for this. lol

Over three years and incomplete w/only a single expansion.

[W0LB0T]

14 hours behind.

Think about it

[Midori Oku]

14 hours behind.

Think about it

lol :D

[Danny_Dark]

Is This The End ?

[xBULLYDOGG]

14 hours behind.

Think about it

nice :)

[Alamar]

I think the end is near. This drip drip updates for 3 years while JP enjoys all the updates. Does that speak volumes to ANYONE out there but me? Why are people standing for this? Why are more people not quitting? Why does everyone stand for this obvious favoritism?
Sorry, I can't see it any other way but that.
As I stated before 2 serves almost a year behind one on top. Sends a message to me to give up you ain't getting anything good. No wonder Sega needs money.
Plus it seems they learned nothing psp2 has glitch problems. If I did this type of work over time my employer would toss me out on my butt. But people keep paying 10 bucks for this shoddy work that is a year behind to boot.
Guess the saying is true. Consumer's really will buy and put up with anything.

[Squirrel3D]

I think the end is near. This drip drip updates for 3 years while JP enjoys all the updates. Does that speak volumes to ANYONE out there but me? Why are people standing for this? Why are more people not quitting? Why does everyone stand for this obvious favoritism?
Sorry, I can't see it any other way but that.
As I stated before 2 serves almost a year behind one on top. Sends a message to me to give up you ain't getting anything good. No wonder Sega needs money.
Plus it seems they learned nothing psp2 has glitch problems. If I did this type of work over time my employer would toss me out on my butt. But people keep paying 10 bucks for this shoddy work that is a year behind to boot.
Guess the saying is true. Consumer's really will buy and put up with anything.


I can't disagree with you. I've been sitting here waiting for MAG+ or the supplinmentary (did I spell that right?) update and no info on ether of these have come out yet.

The mission spotlight for this week isn't enough to keep me playing ether. I'm already canceling my XBL gold subscription for a while (since no one plays with me in any other games, no point in having it now).

I've really teetered on canceling my subscription lately, and I think by next month I might be done with this game altogether.

[Alamar]

I can't disagree with you. I've been sitting here waiting for MAG+ or the supplinmentary (did I spell that right?) update and no info on ether of these have come out yet.

The mission spotlight for this week isn't enough to keep me playing ether. I'm already canceling my XBL gold subscription for a while (since no one plays with me in any other games, no point in having it now).

I've really teetered on canceling my subscription lately, and I think by next month I might be done with this game altogether.

Too many options out there now to put up with this. Sad cause I do like this game.
I really don't see them updating to much. PS2 is dead, 360 does not sell well at all over there. That leaves the pc. All three even JP don't have terrific populations. Pc/PS2 is like a town out of Fallout 3. 360 not as bad but getting there too. Sega is commited to psp2 now. This version will sit until its starves itself.

[Keilyn]

Its amazing because a lot of players who play PSU are PSO fans.....many who haven't played another online game...so when my friends asked me how I deal with the grinding stress in this game...

...I told them this is a secondary game that had become my main for a while because I took a break from Guild Wars, then later when I returned to Guild Wars for a private guild based tournament among good players...One of my friends from this game followed me into Guild Wars

The first two things noticed were

1) No grinding endlessly just to get equipment to play your character as you should be playing from the start.
2) PEOPLE, PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!!!...There were more people in Presearing Ascalon simultaneously than all the players who play all three version online combined at any given time that my friend got lost.

I love PSU, but everytime I see that the Japanese get updates and screw us over....it makes me feel like just uninstalling, cancelling and moving on....Only reason I stay here is for the friends I've made here....but the reason I won't join the Japanese Server is because it would be like admitting that the non-japanese servers should be shutdown.

[xBULLYDOGG]

but the reason I won't join the Japanese Server is because it would be like admitting that the non-japanese servers should be shutdown.

only reason i wont join them is because well, im in the UK and i dont think I can and also, i cant read japanese at all. ><

[Cranberry]

Now, it is vital that when looking at this you take a look at Sega and Sonic Team's history with online games. You MUST look at their past.

Dreamcast PSO was kind of a mess. I wasn't on it myself but there are plenty of reports about how bad it was. But it was Sega's first attempt so we can be more forgiving. Still, the US server was the first to go, and the Japanese and European server lasted all the way until Gamecube's demise.

Gamecube version is where I started, and let's take a look at it. The Japanese got everything first, and they got events with real-world prizes that we never did. In fact, we typically still weren't elligable even if we imported the game and played on the JP version. They wouldn't ship internationally. Episode 3 was especially bad about this. In the few months between the Japanese and US releases, the Japanese had at least 2 huge tournaments, which of course only the Japanese were able to participate in. Once again, english were not eligable for prizes even if they imported. When the US version finally came out, Sega never held another major tournament again. In fact, I think the game came out in March and their last meaningful update was in June. I'd have to check my sources. But the point is, the Japanese got some really big tournaments and the US got next to nothing. At least we got the Game Informers event. I can't remember if European players got it or not.

Now let's talk about Gamecube's problems. Sonic Team released this horrid Double Save patch in a failed attempt to stop duping. An alternate duping method was discovered within weeks, and worse yet the patch caused freequent FSOD during a save and caused countless corruptions. Players begged and pleaded for the patch to be removed, but Sonic Team refused to remove it. The Japanese got PSO+ which had a fix to it, and eventually the US got it too. European Players never got Plus and just had to suffer with it.

Not long after that, hackers began running wild on Gamecube and FSODing people. Sega responded with an abuse report form. And this form worked... IF you were Japanese. Yes, if you were Japanese and you reported someone, there was a good chance action would be taken. I was on a Japanese version of PSO+, and I had a Japanese license so as far as Sega was concerned, I was Japanese. There are people that were causing FSODs and US players would report them hundreds of times, and not a thing would happen. I'd report them once and within a few days they were often banned. They also generally needed to be on the Japanes ships though. If they attacked the Japanese ships and got reported they were gone very quickly. If they attacked the US or Euorpean ships, often Sega didn't care.

Surprisingly, X-Box is the only version of PSO where the English servers out-lived the Japanese ones. But it might as well not have, it had been abandoned long ago. It never even got all 4 Phantasmal World quests. Instead they got eternal Christmas for a few years.

Blue Burst, the US and European servers were plagued with errors such as billing problems and lack of support. Sega decided to pull the plug rather than invest in fixing it. The Japanese servers for Blue Burst are still alive and receiving content, though it's no longer Sega running them. They were sold to Hansgames now, but its still up.

The solution - Quit their servers to teach them a lesson? Let's look at that.

Players put up with it for a long time. But on Gamecube, especially when private options opened up, players left Sega in droves, to the point that their servers were a ghost town. Eventually, even the Japanese ventured over. Seeing a drastic loss in revenue, did Sega man up and fix their servers to attract the players back?

No. They simply shut them down.

So there you have it. Sega has a long and detailed history of favoring the Japanese and neglecting other regions. Cancelling your accounts with Sega doesn't work. Instead of fixing the servers, they simply shut them down if everyone cancels. Sega has been doing this for almost 10 years now. You're a fool if you expected them to magically change with PSU and keep things up to date for anyone but the Japanese. They never have before, what made you think they'd start now?

If you are an english player on a Sega online game, you simply have to accept that you're not considered as important as the Japanese. This is no attack on the Japanese, I love the Japanese people, but it can't be denied that Sega considers english players to be a low priority. And it's certainly not the Japanese players fault that we are neglected. It's entirely Sega's fault.

[Squirrel3D]

So there you have it. Sega has a long and detailed history of favoring the Japanese and neglecting other regions. Cancelling your accounts with Sega doesn't work. Instead of fixing the servers, they simply shut them down if everyone cancels. Sega has been doing this for almost 10 years now. You're a fool if you expected them to magically change with PSU and keep things up to date for anyone but the Japanese. They never have before, what made you think they'd start now?

If you are an english player on a Sega online game, you simply have to accept that you're not considered as important as the Japanese. This is no attack on the Japanese, I love the Japanese people, but it can't be denied that Sega considers english players to be a low priority. And it's certainly not the Japanese players fault that we are neglected. It's entirely Sega's fault.


Those last two paragraphs right there says everything about PSU and the way Sega thinks of everyone outside of Japan. I'm almost convinced reading this that we will never get MAG+ or the Supp update now.

So....here's how it is going to go down. I will play the mission spotlight. When that runs out, I'll just wait for the next update. If this next update isn't something that is different or it's not MAG+ or the Supp update, then it's over for me. I'm selling my stuff, I'm canceling my subscription, and I'm trading in the game at a Gamestop.

This game has too many problems as it is.

- A censor that hasn't been fixed from day one.

- Lackluster updates and no S2s or S3s in certain missions.

- People abusing the leader rights by kicking others out over the dumbest reasons ever (not talking with a mic for example).

- Problems connecting to the game at times. It's only this game I have the issues with, not any other XBL game and that's sad.

- The overspamation of White Beast.


Now I'm gonna be moving next month and I want to save some money. So as I said...I'm gonna see what the next update to this game will be. If it's something very interesting, I'll stay on some more. But if it's the same damn lackluster updates, I'm out of here and never coming back.

[Untamed Dragoon]

.......Sega fails.......EPICLLY!!!!! xD

[Keilyn]

This is why I laugh when people talk about Leveling all PAs to 50 and raising all characters to 170...Sure they are able to level types, PAs and Levels....But who cares when under 100 people play the game outside of events and the PC/PS2 servers look like a ghost town.

I know players who collected equipment and are waiting for Guardians Cash....But knowing Sega, they will end up taking everyones money from Guardians Cash and then closing down the servers six months later. ^_^

Its so bad here in PC/PS2 that due to all the updates on weapons ,equipment and the techs out there....A level 180/20 Cast Male Masterforce in PSU Japan outdamages a female newman 170/20 in the PC/PS2 servers...

My subscription expires on February....If we don't have something decent by then...I will continue playing my main game...which is Guild Wars.....Free to play online and I can "JUST PLAY" Without grinding every single aspect of the entire game.

[DuRaL]

people have to realise that Sega is a company with shareholders who don't care whether the small american PSO fanbase is happy or not, they want to see cash, ok?

PSO has never been that successful in the US and EU. I remember on GC PSO in 2005/2006, there were like 2000+ japanese playing during peak-times, and maybe 80 (or even less) on EU and US ships combined during our peak times. and it was not because they got better updates, we were on the same servers after all..

PSO is a pretty big deal in japan, whereas it's quite unpopular here..

it's just not worth the money for Sega to care as much for the EU/US players as for the JP playerbase.
or do you really think this game could outbeat World of Warcraft if we had the same updates as japan? come on.. ;P
we might have 1 more star on universe 1, and that's about it..

i know, it's sad, but that's how capitalism works..
all americans should understand =)

you should be grateful enough that you can at least play this game here, there are more than enough japanese games that never make their way out of japan..

[Alamar]

people have to realise that Sega is a company with shareholders who don't care whether the small american PSO fanbase is happy or not, they want to see cash, ok?

PSO has never been that successful in the US and EU. I remember on GC PSO in 2005/2006, there were like 2000+ japanese playing during peak-times, and maybe 80 (or even less) on EU and US ships combined during our peak times. and it was not because they got better updates, we were on the same servers after all..

PSO is a pretty big deal in japan, whereas it's quite unpopular here..

it's just not worth the money for Sega to care as much for the EU/US players as for the JP playerbase.
or do you really think this game could outbeat World of Warcraft if we had the same updates as japan? come on.. ;P
we might have 1 more star on universe 1, and that's about it..

i know, it's sad, but that's how capitalism works..
all americans should understand =)

you should be grateful enough that you can at least play this game here, there are more than enough japanese games that never make their way out of japan..

Wait! Wait! Ok I see what your saying.

*Kneels down before a picture of Sega of Japan Building*
Oh great Sega thank you for letting me play this game. I am honored to pay you $9.99 a month
It is too low a price for such an honor. I can not begin to understand your kindness in bringing this game which is from 1987JP/ 1988US the 18th game and you still can't do anything right.
Oh great Sega thank you for this honor. I know YOU decided to make a game that DON'T make a lot of MONEY not ONCE not TWICE but.....
EIGHT TIMES from psov1 to psp2.
I know you need money cause your capitolist decisions makes you always in need of cash.
But thank you for this honor.
Is that what you mean for me to do? cause if you read cranberry's post it's pretty well explained to me.
Nobody told them to keep releasing them here knowing they don't make money. The did it and since THEY decided it. THEY have a obligation to US the PAYING CUSTOMER!! If not then don't make another... PERIOD!

[Akaimizu]

Well, I do agree that the US server will never get what the Japanese servers have now. At least, they wont get everything they have now. History dictates that the US servers always shut down before they catch up to what the Japanese servers had months ago.

So in general, if you want all what the Japanese got, you got to wait until long after the game shuts down, private servers pick up where Sega leaves off, and the game gets the stuff patched in. For me, I could care less about licensed products. They're neat, but not what I look for. It would be nice to get the brunt of non-licensed stuff, though. In some cases, you don't miss out on a lot. (The current 2 pocket system domestic releases, so far).

So far as the US, I've been waiting for the content to go further before coming in more earnestly since I want to say, "Whoah. I got a lot to do." I've fallen behind a little bit, but I probably can catch right back up in a week. I figure that I can't expect much more support coming and that anything else is a surprise, so I hardly look at what the Japanese got, anymore (unless it's PSP2). I just try to pay attention to US news.

[LK1721]

Sega's long history of failing those in the non-Japan servers will warrant us a simple shutdown before we even catch up.

[DuRaL]

Wait! Wait! Ok I see what your saying.
[...]
Nobody told them to keep releasing them here knowing they don't make money.

and nobody forces you to pay for the game.

play different online RPGs if you like updates, or play PSU if you like PSU..
nothing will change, because the small community isn't worth the trouble for Sega ;)

oh, and they do still make enough money from EU/US sales to justify the western release, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
the playerbase just isn't big enough for them to justify the same service they give for japan, where the game is a lot more popular..

[Yuicihi]

The servers will more than likely be taken down before the US servers 'catch up'.

[Alamar]

and nobody forces you to pay for the game.

play different online RPGs if you like updates, or play PSU if you like PSU..
nothing will change, because the small community isn't worth the trouble for Sega ;)

oh, and they do still make enough money from EU/US sales to justify the western release, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
the playerbase just isn't big enough for them to justify the same service they give for japan, where the game is a lot more popular..

I have 3 friends on here plus my sister. We all agreed we would leave for good at the same time.
You know here is something if they gave decent UPDATES the population would be pretty good on "our" servers. But since they want to play favorites all the time with these games the population sucks.
And the go play something else is a bogus arguement. I am playing this I have friends and family here. So since I pay them and there are not enough players I get the dollar store version of the game? And Jp gets the top end version.
ok once more.
THE POPULATION IS LOW ALL THE TIME CAUSE THEY DON"T UPDATE OR TAKE CARE OF PROBLEMS!!!!!!!

Got it? They caused the problem they can fix it. well not now this titanic is sunk for sure. They could have a long time ago. Not like they did not know about any of the problems.
Billing,content,support. Three years now same stuff over and over and over and over. And after 8 online PS games you think *headslap* they would get one right for sure.
Look at the front page see the PSP2 problems? room decos. It is unreal, truly is amazing to me already starting off with compensation, game is how old? They should really sell the PS franchise to someone. Let them come out with a new one. I bet anything it would be ran better then this. Hell there are free games out there that are ran better. FREE they run on donations. So don't give me its not profitable for them.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

But since they want to play favorites all the time with these games the population sucks.
So the game has better support for the country it's developed and originated from, HEAVEN FORBID!

If you were in China playing World of Warcraft, you'd probably whine about how bad your release of their game was too...

[Keilyn]

Not really Lina..

Everytime ID and Epic Games has released a game...first they release a game in the US and due to the software laws existing in Europe and Asia, sometimes a release is not possible because Europe and Asia want simultaneous updating and Global Synchronization....So when the first patch is released there is always a Global Release among shooters allowing players from practically any region including Asia and Europe to play together.

As for Roleplaying Games...According to Chinese Laws...any piece of software bought has to give the end user the right to use it from the box. It means if you send an MMORPG to China and you buy it, you have to legally supply both Free to play servers and Subscription Based Servers..that has remained in Effect for ever.

Japan has the Localization Laws which actually are a cutthroat in Software Development.

The Localization Laws are that any piece of software under the same name, but different SKU can be considered a completely different product altogether and support guidelines can be completely different. In short, each version of PSU instead of being treated as one game is treated as three seperate products with the creator being free to administer its post delivery maintanance anyway they see fit.

The Second part of localization laws also deal with warranties...Three different products, three different warranties...In short it gives Japanese Corporations Legal Ground to completely screw you.

American Localization Laws are vastly different...An American Corporation can be sued if product support proves a dependency or if there is a failure of support localization (European Union vs Microsoft Corp.) is an example of this and well as (The People of the United States of America vs the DRAM Executive Board)....

European Union has the toughest Localization Laws, where a product has to have multi-language support and go through rigorous validation protocols which also includes tests on the integrity of contract law, support and warranty.

Don't get me started on how Import/Export Laws affect Localization Laws and how Censorship all plays into it...The cute thing is that when an American or European game goes into Japan, the majority of the time the patch releases are Global....but the majority of the time Japanese games go oversees all they do is give you a disk and if you find a bug in the game you have to deal with it and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

..And this isn't just Sega...Its practically almost every Asian Company from Korean Games like Lineage 2...to Sega games like PSO and PSU and Malaysian games like RYL...all have the same blasted maintanance problems and lazy attitude.

[Alamar]

So the game has better support for the country it's developed and originated from, HEAVEN FORBID!

If you were in China playing World of Warcraft, you'd probably whine about how bad your release of their game was too...

Are you serious? do you hear yourself? Better support then the country its developed in?
If you can't handle supporting a game worldwide then KEEP IT IN COUNTRY!!!!
When a company chooses to release a game worldwide. They are taking on the reponsibility to keep the game as up to date as possible.
You see people tend to quit when they see this type of playing favorites happen....
oh wait they did!

[Cranberry]

I am well aware that the game originates in Japan and that they get content first. No one here has a problem with that. We all understand that it takes time for translations to be done and content to be prepared and localized for the appropriate market. Everyone understands that. So no one would complain if consistently the Japanese received content, and then say 4 months later we received it as well. We’d all understand and we’d all be happy. After all we are paying $10 a month for this.

But here’s one thing you need to understand. Sonic Team is not just 1 company. There are different divisions. You have Sonic Team of Japan, you have Sonic Team of USA, and I believe there’s a Sonic Team of Europe too (not sure on that one). Each respective Sonic Team is in charge of providing the content for their respective servers. Sonic Team of Japan is pretty reliable. They apply their content in a pretty timely manor and collect the money. Sonic Team of USA has a terrible reputation when it comes to support. This is one reason the Abuse forms for PSO were such a joke for Americans. Japanese reports went to Sonic Team of Japan whom took prompt action. USA reports went to Sonic Team of USA, whom probably still hasn’t checked that email since the day it went live.

Now, let’s talk about money. We pay the same price for PSU that we paid for PSO. Now I’m going to assume that the Japanese are also paying the same for PSU that they paid for PSO. Did you know that you are paying almost triple what the Japanese are paying for the same game? How do I know? I played PSO+ the Japanese version. I paid my license fee to Sonic Team of Japan. The license system for Japan was a little different than in the USA. In the USA your license was what $9.99 a month and was automatically re-billed every month until you manually cancelled it. Japanese licenses however had to be manually purchased for a set period of time. You could choose between a 1 month license and a 3 month license, and you had to manually re-new it whenever it expired. The prices varied slightly due to variance in the worth of American dollars compared to Japanese Yen, but they were always approximately this much: 1 month of PSO - $5. 3 months of PSO - $10. For what you were paying for 1 month, myself and every Japanese player got 3 months. But wait, before we scream unfairness about the price, let’s take a closer look. We might be able to justify the price if we take a look at content right?

There’s no doubt the Japanese are getting their moneys worth for content. They are updated regularly, they are paying a fraction of what US players pay. All is pretty good for the Japanese side. Of course, this content has to be translated and localized before it can be brought state side and European side. Perhaps that’s why we are paying 3 times as much? Because of the translation costs and localization costs right? Hmm, wait a second! We aren’t getting that content at all! Oh we’re paying for it all right, but we aren’t getting it! This dates all the way back to the Blue Burst servers as well. There were countless items, quests, and events that we paid for, but never received. First, we fell months behind, then years, and finally we were simply cut off entirely. Yet during all that time, we continued to pay 3 times as much as the Japanese, for a fraction of their content.

How about server population? The Japanese had a higher population, the exact amount varied, but it wasn’t usually a vastly superior number. But let’s go with what we have. The higher the population, the more it costs in bandwidth to run a server. Thus the Japanese server by population had the highest costs to run in terms of bandwidth. The US players, with a cheaper bandwidth cost still paid 3 times as much, and for what? A server that was already cheaper to run with less content than the Japanese one?

So there you have it. There’s really no excuse for this. I would accept the argument that it’s okay for the Japanese to receive content that we receive either extremely late or not all if money were not a factor. If the Japanese were paying premiums for the content and such options were not available to us, that’s one thing. But the fact of the matter is WE are paying the premiums, and THEY are getting the content. It’s like a terrible joke by Sega. We are paying 3 times the fees the Japanese get, and we are not getting the content we are paying for. You can’t use the excuse of translation and localization costs if you don’t actually translate and localize anything. The money went straight into their pockets, and we got nothing for it. We are paying 3 times as much, so that we can get screwed over 3 times as badly. That is my problem with this. I don’t blame the Japanese or Sonic Team of Japan for this. I blame Sonic Team of USA.

Someone please tell me if the pricing has changed and the Japanese are now paying the same price we are, but I really doubt it.

[Ceresa]

JP is 1000 or 1050 yen a month, there's no discounts.

Of course, if you actually want the new content, it's more like 2000-3000 yen a month...

And not a vastly superior number of population? I can remember a time when JP PSU had over 150 stars. Even 3 years later with the numbers down to 20 stars this year, that's still about 5x as much as us/eu 360/pc/ps2 combined.

[Cranberry]

My server population comparisons are PSO Gamecube US vs PSO Gamecube JP. I should have specifically specified that. I wrote my post in a word file at work and had to keep coming back to it over the day so some of my thoughts and points are not lined up as well as they could have been. But my points about cost should still be valid.

[DuRaL]

sounds like everbody'd be happy if the japanese got the same updates as we did, because then it'd be fair paying the monthly fee for it? xD



And not a vastly superior number of population? I can remember a time when JP PSU had over 150 stars. Even 3 years later with the numbers down to 20 stars this year, that's still about 5x as much as us/eu 360/pc/ps2 combined.
that's what i'm saying.
the game's a lot more popular over there..
so Sega of course has a much bigger team for the support of the japanese servers than for the US servers..

the real problem with PSU is that the servers are seperated by regions..
in PSO (excluding BB and i think xbox) all servers were international and we got the same content the japanese did (except some episode 3 content, unfortunately, but then again, the european ep3 community was even a lot smaller than the ep1&2 community)

EDIT: as i wrote in a previous post, PSO population in peak hours in 2005/06 was about this:
2500 (JP) : 100 (US&EU)
that's 25 times as much for JP than US and EU combined..

[Alamar]

Sega sold 29.47 million games last year 85% were sold in US/EU. So where is most of the money they make come from? And who gets the shafting? They did post a $240 million loss this year $550 million last year. The world economy has something to do with this. In the end it seems to me Sega does not want a mmo like this to last like say a EQ or a WOW they want the quick fast buck milk the dam thing till it drops start again. Don't make sense to me and Sega's profits(or lack of) over the years and years don't seem to understand either.


They made countless mistakes Saturn $399.00 PS one a year later $299.00. Plus the Saturn was a royal pain for developers. They would have to just about remake the whole game just for the Saturn and still come out looking worse(same game) then other systems. Saturn= Loss of money.
32X- all i will say. Loss of money.
The made more systems then any other company. Then pulled out. I read somewhere one sentence that sums up Sega. They make games that get good reviews but no one buys.
They are not the only ones to make mistakes I know that. But one thing that really gets under my skin is they never learn from them.

[Cranberry]

For PSO populations, I am talking about the earlier days. In the later years US PSO was plauged by FSODers and of course the population dropped. BUT before we go any further on that at all, I must verify one thing. You see my points about price are based on Gamecube Data. Are you telling me that the Japanese are now paying more for their licenses on PSU than US players are playing? Is that what you are saying?

If that is what you are saying, you win. Because my points are under the assumption that it's still using the PSO price scheme where US paid 3 times the amount of the Japanese. If that is no longer the case, than my argument in that is defeated, at least for PSU.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Not really Lina..

Everytime ID and Epic Games has released a game...first they release a game in the US and due to the software laws existing in Europe and Asia, sometimes a release is not possible because Europe and Asia want simultaneous updating and Global Synchronization....So when the first patch is released there is always a Global Release among shooters allowing players from practically any region including Asia and Europe to play together.

As for Roleplaying Games...According to Chinese Laws...any piece of software bought has to give the end user the right to use it from the box. It means if you send an MMORPG to China and you buy it, you have to legally supply both Free to play servers and Subscription Based Servers..that has remained in Effect for ever.

Japan has the Localization Laws which actually are a cutthroat in Software Development.

The Localization Laws are that any piece of software under the same name, but different SKU can be considered a completely different product altogether and support guidelines can be completely different. In short, each version of PSU instead of being treated as one game is treated as three seperate products with the creator being free to administer its post delivery maintanance anyway they see fit.

The Second part of localization laws also deal with warranties...Three different products, three different warranties...In short it gives Japanese Corporations Legal Ground to completely screw you.

American Localization Laws are vastly different...An American Corporation can be sued if product support proves a dependency or if there is a failure of support localization (European Union vs Microsoft Corp.) is an example of this and well as (The People of the United States of America vs the DRAM Executive Board)....

European Union has the toughest Localization Laws, where a product has to have multi-language support and go through rigorous validation protocols which also includes tests on the integrity of contract law, support and warranty.

Don't get me started on how Import/Export Laws affect Localization Laws and how Censorship all plays into it...The cute thing is that when an American or European game goes into Japan, the majority of the time the patch releases are Global....but the majority of the time Japanese games go oversees all they do is give you a disk and if you find a bug in the game you have to deal with it and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

..And this isn't just Sega...Its practically almost every Asian Company from Korean Games like Lineage 2...to Sega games like PSO and PSU and Malaysian games like RYL...all have the same blasted maintanance problems and lazy attitude.
Sarcasm, it's a word you might want to learn.
Such a serious response to a sarcastic remark.
Well, thanks for arguing my point for me anyway :p


Are you serious?
I'm about as serious as you are, since you seem to enjoy flogging dead horses.

[Alamar]

Hey I enjoy flogging anything that pisses me off dead or not. It makes me feel better inside.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Especially if the Horse is a talking one named Ed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU

Hello, I'm Mr Ed!

[Alamar]

lol :p

[jc5507]

why not put all the servers together

[xBULLYDOGG]

why not put all the servers together

Because of all the bullshit complaing that will happen, everyone will find something to complain about most people live for it. And besides, that means Sega doing work, and they dun wanna

[Cranberry]

Because the last time they did that, english players went on a rampage of wide-spread hacking, duping, cheating, and FSODing everyone in sight.

Hate to say it, but english players have proven to Sega pretty convincingly that they can't be on a global server and peacefully interact with other countries. A few bad apples ruined it for everyone.

[jc5507]

really that sucks I love psu and wish they would do something to boost population and give us players updates

[Keilyn]

...and japanese players have proven to take the Korean-Cheat mods and apply them all over Guild Wars and Worlds of Warcraft leading to their being banned...

Remember...Being born "Japanese" does not make you Immune to being a hacker and a cheater....In almost every PvP based MMORPG Koreans, Chinese and Japanese have been documented to using more Macro-Cheat devices....

Americans are dumb and try to do stupid things like hack the database or download a korean cheat device without knowing how to use it and actually get caught...Most American Gamers couldn't hack their way out of a paper bag if they tried.

[jc5507]

will we ever get the updates

[ashley50]

will we ever get the updates

You really want to know?

[jc5507]

is there anychance

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Anything's possible...
Probability is very low...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/1024/noneatall.jpg

[Cranberry]

Keilyn's comment is making me feel depressed. Why oh why is it so hard to have an online game without cheating? Does such a think even exist?

[HyperShot-X-]

will we ever get the updates
it's just matter of time, i'm looking forward to the next update announcement in the new year, and there are many other things i can do to spend my time on and wasting too much time on a useless thread like this is not one of them.

[jc5507]

well I hope they do

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Why oh why is it so hard to have an online game without cheating?
Because mankind is driven by greed and time.
Also, people are evil.

[HyperShot-X-]

no, it's b/c universe is not fair and perfect world doesn't exist, also it's not about good and evil, but difference of perspectives.

[Zeek123]

Americans are dumb and try to do stupid things like hack the database or download a Korean cheat device without knowing how to use it and actually get caught...Most American Gamers couldn't hack their way out of a paper bag if they tried.

*Raises hand* >_<

But yeah... the most complicated thing we can hack are our PSPs... and even then it's like performing surgery to us.

Why spoil a simple game anyway?

[Kion]

I quit PSU over a year ago. I thought that if I waited a year that even if updates were slow that there would be at least some additional content to get into. I came back to find nothing had changed. If Sega has a habit of letting non-JP servers die, then i guess there really is no hope for this game; it`s just time to move on if you have problems with it.

Ideally if we aren`t going to get updates, then we shouldn`t have to pay for the servers. Something like an expanded demo for both versions would keep a decent population going, even if people only got on to chat. Updates should be simultaneous would wide. I dont care if the populations are joined or not, paying the same price for one third the game is a load of bs.

It`s too bad they banned on the hackers; a private server for PSU would be really awesome, considering ST has proven they just dont care.

[RAGNAGELPPOD]

I had the idea that updates needed to be "bought" by the players. So like, if it takes $100 a month to get an update but only 5 people are playing, we'd only get updated once every 2 months.

[Crysteon]

Keilyn's comment is making me feel depressed. Why oh why is it so hard to have an online game without cheating? Does such a think even exist?

Get used to it xD... jk :D

It's not hard...it's impossible to have such game, and that's because of people's lack of sense about fairness in a silly piece of sotware. I won't argue about Koreans and Japanese ego issues, but I will say it's a problem that we Americans (I'm speaking of the whole America, not only US) are not inmune to as well.

People here and there whining because they don't have anything to show off to noobs, and recurring to cheats just to satisfy that "zOMG, I'm an elite azzhole...!"; isnt it adorable?^^;...oh wait...that happens on almost every Korean MMORPG game I know, if not all. I have had read those experiences that GMs ban players who try to cheat in-game, and it's kind of sad because of all the time you spend getting better gears and some random geek gets the same stuff by typing his wants on a .txt file to do the magic in less than 5 minutes.

Gee...isnt this far away from the main topic? xD

Whatever....speaking of the main topic, I guess we will never keep up with Japanese servers since SOA lacks the people and the proper administration to manage the updates. I mean, why does JP manipulate our contents? I know we have some dependency because SOA is a branch of the main company, but that doesnt justify we are so late on contents. I heard US PSU had some dark period last year where updates were almost none and lots of problems like rollbacks and hacking issues and blah blah blah....isnt that right to suppose SOA is having a serious problem with the people who administrate it? :-?

I'm actually resting from PSU, doing some other stuff like resting and trying other games on my PSP and Wii. I like this game a lot, but not to the level I tolerate so many mistakes of a company who, presumably, provides me a good online gaming service (dear god...it was a pain to get a membership, just because I'm from Mexico and credit cards here have a different format to say your home's address).

If it werent by the people's "I'm Mr. Badazz Elite" attitude and Segac's mistakes, I would stick to this game even more to the very end.

[Keilyn]

Keilyn's comment is making me feel depressed. Why oh why is it so hard to have an online game without cheating? Does such a think even exist?

The problem with online games is their business model. Below is the standard business model for MMORPGs:

Create a game where you slow experience points and put in as much grinding as possible to slow down the growth of a character as much as possible. Generate positive opinion about the game knowing those who stay will agree with the system and support it. The real reason you want this is to make more money from players....

If you take 100 hours of content and wrap it around areas that require grinding and leveling to pass and push through....One can increase the time needed to do anything in the game...meaning more monthly fees are collected and more of a player's real time is wasted.

Now comes the Human element:

A player will not admit freely and openly that their time and money has been wasted by admitting the game is a full grind. Instead they will refer to any complaining player as being weak and shutting down their opinion....Or will simply say "If you don't like it, leave!"

This is why you see so many players post their accomplishments...The greater the pride and ego, the more fallen such a player is......and you can tell too when it gives way to logic....

"What about the players who have saved 200 - 500 dollars for Guardians Cash to spend it on items and give a plethora of reasoning as to why its a good idea to their friends while hypocritically posting they will never use it?

Its all about Justifying existence...making self known..and companies know this generates profit so they will take responsibility for giving you a game....but a day will come when you wake up...and find yourself five to ten years older and looking back...all you have are memories in online games, most which have come and gone....along with all the time wasted and questioning if it was worth it or not and having to face the truth....It was fun, it was nice...It was cute...but it was also time wasted (unless of course you got something major out of it like a girlfriend/boyfriend and married, etc)

If you want my advice.....Take up a real world skill like Music, Illustration, Art/Design, technology aside from the video games you play so much...10 years down the line you will have that skill to show for it and this game will be a memory...

The lifespan of the skill you learn will be far greater than the lifespan of a game, for today games take longer to develop than their lifespans.

[xBULLYDOGG]

Because the last time they did that, english players went on a rampage of wide-spread hacking, duping, cheating, and FSODing everyone in sight.

Hate to say it, but english players have proven to Sega pretty convincingly that they can't be on a global server and peacefully interact with other countries. A few bad apples ruined it for everyone.

And yeah because we did that too, thats a reason. Those dam english.


If it werent by the people's "I'm Mr. Badazz Elite" attitude...

Blacklist

[DuRaL]

the real problem is that PSU depends too much on updates..

i started playing PSO I&II online back in october 2004, and as far as i remember, there wasn't a single content update in the whole time i played PSO! yet, it was good enough for me to play from october '04 until the end of the server in 2007 without a single break longer than 1 month!

PSU on the other hand gets very boring after 1-2 weeks without an update, because 95% of the missions feel the same, missions aren't balanced, everyone always plays the same mission over and over, etc..
and when a new update comes, it's usually just 1 short mission that everyone plays over and over.....

although PSU has more missions and content than PSOI&II, i feel there was more to do in PSO =/
section IDs also gave you a reason to play all areas, because every area had some incredibly rare and good drops if you played the right ID.. i miss IDs >_<
oh, and they gave you a funny looking chair, too o.o/

[xBULLYDOGG]

although PSU has more missions and content than PSOI&II, i feel there was more to do in PSO =/


Photon chairs ftw. (or whatever they were called)

[Danny_Dark]

This Is The End For NA/EU Servers...

[ChaosAngelic]

Yeah, well... I stopped playing quite a while ago. I do think, however, that this game would do much better with the "freemium" business model; that is, the game would be free to play and you could buy some items that would otherwise be hard or impossible to get. It would certainly quiet a lot of the complaining about the lack of updates. After all, if you're not paying a monthly fee for the game, that sort of thing isn't quite as important.

I know it would bring me back.

[Crysteon]

Blacklist

Lol, yes...that's another option, but abusing of that will make you feel you're playing more offline than the online itself, where does the real concept of online interaction go to if you can't even talk to people when you have 95% of them on your blacklist? :/

I use to be patient with people; but when they really tick me off so bad, I don't doubt to BL them. My sanity and enjoyment come first.

[Alamar]

Like pso v1 is now? And better managed too. What does it say about a global company that started when in the 50's? They handle their games like they handled their systems. You see what systems they make now.

[SuperRygar]

wow, this is the second thread i've read that has intelligent comments as opposed to all flames. bravo pso-world ^.^

when i saw this topic i expected to come out with third degree burns but there are some good points. i'm very surprised that a few people know so much about international laws and business models and such. its hard to argue against what they're saying, so lets not do that.

all i can really do is give my opinion. i've always liked Keilyn's posts, but this recent one i didn't care for. usually its an informed strong opinion, but here you make matter-of-fact statments about other people. you say that online games have a standard business model, it may be true for some but you can't speak for all of them. that i dont think/care about that, companies make games and you either like it or your don't. how or why they made it doesnt make a difference, its a game, to play, and you choose whether to play it or not, and for how long. that's a personal choice and doesnt rely on any business model. the end result and overall experience will be affected by that model though.

but what you said about the human element is a gross generilzation that is a bit over exaggerated. its true that some people are like that, but your saying it as if it were an absolute. there's no denying that some people are like that and maybe your only speaking to them, you didnt really specify. but saying things like "Its all about Justifying existence." "It was cute...but it was also time wasted" is wrong (and off topic). (im off topic too :P but oh well) first of all, all video games(minus educational games) are in fact a 'waste of time'. so it comes down to a question of 'what game do i want to waste my time on?' PSU is a very fun game to SPEND time on. i would say my time in PSU was anything but wasted. i have good memories, good friends, fun chats, good gameplay. i never grinded endlessly to get that uber rare item, or mass sythned a weapon just to get a high percentage. i play, i get drops, and i make use of what i found. i never really hunted for anything specifically, i never made that my goal. i find in this game having all high % Srank weapons makes the game too easy, so really the ones who did just that ruined the game for themselves. if the game is too easy the answer is not stronger weapons xD

i have outside hobbies, i play guitar daily, i draw, i make games in rpgmaker, i go out with my friends, i have a 9-5 job in tech support, and PSU has always been something else i do in my free time. the people who lose the most from this whole PSU bomb are the ones that made the game their life, or attached some kind of real world significance or worth in what they do in the game. its just a game. i laugh at people like that squirrel fella who keeps posting that if there's no good update he's gonna quit. if you cant make a decision for yourself and rely on the actions of a company to finalize a decision like that then i truely feel sorry for you.

there's shouldnt be an issue with the difference between each server. the game, a lot like life, is what you make out of it using what your given. if your not happy then kill yourself...i mean quit this game and try something else that will bring you happiness. dont dwell on this forever. im very happy paying a small fee(compared to other pay mmo's) once every 3 months and enjoying every hour i put into it. some see it as a game where you have to grind endlessly to get the good items just to play the game. try playing final fantasy 11 online. you have to be level 75 and have a static group of 12+ people scheduling hour long battles that cost millions of ingame dollars just for a VERY small chance that a piece of artifact armor drops which is then divided by the chance that you out of the group of 12 get it.

a game/world of total peace and fairness will only reveal itself when there is a foolproof way of seeing into somebody mind and past to find out if they are virtuous enough to be courteous and fair in all aspects. it would be a very small world indeed

[Volcompat321]

This is why you see so many players post their accomplishments...The greater the pride and ego, the more fallen such a player is......and you can tell too when it gives way to logic....

Honestly, it keeps the game interesting, it's not about showing, or not admitting there's no grind.

[Keilyn]

Hi SuperRygar ^_^

I am happy you are objective and its nice to hear from you. Here is my take and clarification. Apologies to everyone who took it the wrong way. ^_^


all i can really do is give my opinion. i've always liked Keilyn's posts, but this recent one i didn't care for. usually its an informed strong opinion, but here you make matter-of-fact statments about other people. you say that online games have a standard business model, it may be true for some but you can't speak for all of them. that i dont think/care about that, companies make games and you either like it or your don't. how or why they made it doesnt make a difference, its a game, to play, and you choose whether to play it or not, and for how long. that's a personal choice and doesnt rely on any business model. the end result and overall experience will be affected by that model though.

The business model does affect greatly whether people stay or go because it includes expansion, post-delivery maintanance, marketting & advertisement and its method for revenue. A lot of players have left PSU because of a failure in post-delivery maintanance.


but what you said about the human element is a gross generilzation that is a bit over exaggerated. its true that some people are like that, but your saying it as if it were an absolute. there's no denying that some people are like that and maybe your only speaking to them, you didnt really specify. but saying things like "Its all about Justifying existence." "It was cute...but it was also time wasted" is wrong (and off topic). (im off topic too :P but oh well) first of all, all video games(minus educational games) are in fact a 'waste of time'. so it comes down to a question of 'what game do i want to waste my time on?' PSU is a very fun game to SPEND time on. i would say my time in PSU was anything but wasted. i have good memories, good friends, fun chats, good gameplay. i never grinded endlessly to get that uber rare item, or mass sythned a weapon just to get a high percentage. i play, i get drops, and i make use of what i found. i never really hunted for anything specifically, i never made that my goal. i find in this game having all high % Srank weapons makes the game too easy, so really the ones who did just that ruined the game for themselves. if the game is too easy the answer is not stronger weapons xD

Thanks for agreeing with me. ^_^ A clear example of saying "Games are a waste of time but the one I play is not a waste of time" just to say its about memories and fun. ^_^


i have outside hobbies, i play guitar daily, i draw, i make games in rpgmaker, i go out with my friends, i have a 9-5 job in tech support, and PSU has always been something else i do in my free time. the people who lose the most from this whole PSU bomb are the ones that made the game their life, or attached some kind of real world significance or worth in what they do in the game. its just a game. i laugh at people like that squirrel fella who keeps posting that if there's no good update he's gonna quit. if you cant make a decision for yourself and rely on the actions of a company to finalize a decision like that then i truely feel sorry for you.


I believe if you pay for a product, you have a right for it to be maintained and updated. There are people who love playing PSU, but I believe those people deserve better.....by better I mean a game that is not a year or more behind the main version of the game.


there's shouldnt be an issue with the difference between each server. the game, a lot like life, is what you make out of it using what your given. if your not happy then kill yourself...i mean quit this game and try something else that will bring you happiness. dont dwell on this forever. im very happy paying a small fee(compared to other pay mmo's) once every 3 months and enjoying every hour i put into it. some see it as a game where you have to grind endlessly to get the good items just to play the game. try playing final fantasy 11 online. you have to be level 75 and have a static group of 12+ people scheduling hour long battles that cost millions of ingame dollars just for a VERY small chance that a piece of artifact armor drops which is then divided by the chance that you out of the group of 12 get it.

I played FFXI and FFXI has more content and more to do than PSU by far...but has the catch you need a good party for it.....I played the game for a long time and had Red Mage with all its Gear and got bored of endless Dynamis Runs.....^_^ Also....Battles don't last hours long in that game if you have the right party...and I had a very good linkshell that was specialized and prioritize arming each person up....Which was a cool thing...

Also, after Level Sync was introduced leveling became insanely easy in that game. ^_^

Guild Wars is my primary game, maintained weekly and have played for four years with no subscriptions fees. The game has changed and the only thing that pissed me off was that they announced GW II at the height of popularity and stopped expanding the game, but they still update the game weekly ^_^

PSU has its moments, but when my time for renewal comes Im going to have to ask myself if its worth to renew playing a game where 5 - 15 out of 140 - 150 cards are active out of events....If I renew it would solely be on the friends I like spending time with in-game, but if I don't renew i guess I will do what most do...and its play a better game and only renew when something fun shows up. ^_^

[SuKKrl]

Thanks for agreeing with me. ^_^ A clear example of saying "Games are a waste of time but the one I play is not a waste of time" just to say its about memories and fun. ^_^

Surely, what each person thinks of gaming varies due to numerous reasons. My opinion is that I really think the best part of a online multiplayer game is meeting people (unfortunately you get to meet some morons too), and having fun with them. Modern society does not give us too much time to do this physically (surely, this varies a lot depending on the person's current life situation) and I think this might have helped the mmos get so popular. Some people might pay for graphics, I pay for having fun.



I played FFXI and FFXI has more content and more to do than PSU by far...but has the catch you need a good party for it.....I played the game for a long time and had Red Mage with all its Gear and got bored of endless Dynamis Runs.....^_^ Also....Battles don't last hours long in that game if you have the right party...and I had a very good linkshell that was specialized and prioritize arming each person up....Which was a cool thing...

Also, after Level Sync was introduced leveling became insanely easy in that game. ^_^

You're lucky, I only met mute jps and a suicidal black mage...^^;



I believe if you pay for a product, you have a right for it to be maintained and updated. There are people who love playing PSU, but I believe those people deserve better.....by better I mean a game that is not a year or more behind the main version of the game.

I fear PSU's case is a result from that internal battle between Sega of America and Sega (japanese) that was reported long, long ago. I hope it has absolutely no relation to this, because if this is the case, then it's probably hopeless.

[Cranberry]

Thanks to PSO, I have a friend in Japan that has become much more to me than just an NPC. We chat quite often, and even exchange gifts around the holidays. The experiences I've had with this person have been very enriching and fullfilling for me, and I've learned a lot about their culture. They've learned from me as well. Although I could give countless other reasons why my time with PSO is defenitly not a waste of time, this one alone speaks volumes for me.

Without PSO, I never would have become associated with such a fascinating and wonderful person.

[Keilyn]

Not bad Cranberry. That post made me smile in the good sense..^_^, I've met people in-game..that are cool and its why I still play.

You do know that NPC means "Non Player Character" right? Characters the system controls...If there is another definition im not aware...please tell me.

If you wanted Japanese friends and you lived in the US.....all you have to do is sign up for the following in any college:

~American Exchange Groups //lots of foreigners are part of exchange programs and some are grouped together to help ease integration into colleges and society. You can meet cool people there from all over the world.

~Gaming Club/Anime Club: Usually a Japanese person will join just to see what the american concept of it is...I've seen plenty,

~Japanese Language Department: Usually Japanese groups exist there because they tend to have contact with the professors who are native japanese and tutors who tend to come from Japan.

Outside of Colleges you can go to the Asian districts in different cities, Chinatown and Little Tokyo...The woman who taught me kanji originally was a chinese woman I knew as a kid...and later on I learned several readings for them.

When I took a break from gaming and went back to language studies years ago....I met more people in my first month outside of games than in a year playing online games and retained more as friends...but is just me.

[DragonStriker]

Just play 360 PSU and go to universe 16.

[Cranberry]

The definition of NPC I was using was "Non-Playable Character" which in my context simply meant any character I can't control. Basically I was saying they are more to me than just a character I see on my TV screen.

I wasn't specifically looking for Japanese friends, it just sort of happened with this person. It wasn't expected or planned or anything. I'm very glad it happened though. Sometimes the best things in our lives come from the most unlikely of sources.

[jc5507]

if anything I think we will get the updates they do keep raising the level cap and is pc psu cheaper?

[SuperRygar]

^.^ Hi Keilyn. you can just call me Rygar :P i'm only Super on here because someone already registered Rygar...anyways i think my point of view was missed because of how i worded it.

what i was saying is that regardless of how or why the company makes the game, doesnt affect why you START playing the game. you start playing the game because it looks cool, the battle system seems new or fun, or even that its a 'sequel' to PSO. i started playing simply because it was related to PSO, so i would have played this game no matter what it looked like or how it played. i didnt even look at screens, reviews, videos...i just went out and bought it the next day.

then when a person puts a lot of time into a game, they have to develop reasons to want to keep on playing the game. if the company made the game in such a way to make the most profit from doing the least amount of work, by just making things have low drop rates or something, then it would become obvious to the player and would eventually lead to that person losing interest and enjoyment out of playing the game. i believe this is kind of what you were talking about..? maybe im wrong

so what i was saying about the business model not mattering is this. when an individual plays a game, they play as they want to. for some people that means spending 10 hours a day to be one of the first to get the latest released item. for some people that means being social and spending most of their time in lobbies chatting with random people and making friends. for some people that means running around being a total asshole. for some people that means playing solo. for some people that means finding the most profitable item at the time and spamming that mission and selling the items to make a huge profit. in MMO's especially, the dynamics of the game are largely based on the actions of the players. for instance, a common 'problem' in PSU is that everybody runs White Beast all day long. Sega didnt intend for this to happen, sure the rewards are some of the best and it has good drops and maybe its easy or whatever, but ultimately its the actions of the players that made this a problem in the first place. sega designed the levels, chose the drops/rewards, insert boss here, connect to this lobby here, all they did was layout the framework of the virtual world. when they opened the doors, the players were free to do whatever they wish, so it is my opinion that everything that is wrong with PSU is the fault of the majority of the players. that's a pretty strong statement! i am not denying that sega has been restricting the content of the game to a degree that makes it impossible to maintain a exceptable level of entertainment out of this game. it is very annoying that it took so long to have access to everything that is on the disc. that is part of the business model, i assume, and yes, that has had a HUGE impact on how long most people play this game. but when i play this game i see the problem with slow content and adjusted my play style so that it doesnt have a negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. that's the main arguement i have. that's what i mean by:

"companies make games and you either like it or your don't. how or why they made it doesnt make a difference, its a game, to play, and you choose whether to play it or not, and for how long. that's a personal choice and doesnt rely on any business model. the end result and overall experience will be affected by that model though."

if you choose to burn through the available content in 2 months, you need more to keep your interest. well they aren't giving us more...now what? you quit. but instead of burning through the game, i chose to take my time. not spamming the mission with the highest xp so that i hit the level cap asap. not spamming a mission until that strong weapon. i have been playing since the date of my pso-world join and to date i have never reached a point where i had nothing to do because i played at a pace that supports longevity of interest in the game. it is because of how i chose to play the game based on what i was seeing happen. i adapted. that's why i say its a personal choice.

uhhh, well it feels like im going in circles so i'l stop here and work is over so i'm going home anyways. i hope my point is in there somewhere...

I've accepted that PSU will never be a popular game, everyone else should too and just enjoy it for what it has rather than complain about what it doesnt

[Alamar]

This is from a 2007 study by School of Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University.
They studied WoW for 5 months.
The study is about Player Dynamics in Massively Multiplayer Online Games
Here are some findings. I will post a link to read the entire thing.


• The distribution of player session lengths is very similar to that of peer-to-peer file sharing
sessions, despite a game’s interactive nature, but has a shorter tail.
• We find several good predictors of session length, such as in-game character level or age.
• Despite the social nature of MMOGs, interactivity between players accounts for little of the
dependence between sessions of different players, and most sessions are not correlated at
long time scales.
• Changes to a game’s virtual world can cause dramatic shifts in the population densities of
in-game locations, which are otherwise relatively stable.

Players spend long periods of time only in areas where they stand to gain benefits and advance
in the game (i.e.areas with suitable quests). In this regard, players appear to act rationally with
respect to game rules. The distribution of location densities is very skewed, with some locations
much more popular than others. Density is also stable over shorter periods of time, although major
in-game changes, such as the addition of new locations, can cause density to shift.

Overall, our results suggest that multiplayer game designs should take into account the high churn
rate present in large games, and ensure that any overhead incurred when players join and leave the
game is sufficiently low. This also applies to systems where there is overhead in a player entering
and leaving a game location, such as games where different zones are hosted on different servers.
In addition, games should allocate more resources to popular areas as opposed to uniformly across
all locations. Dynamic load balancing is not as necessary since density tends to be stable, and
drastic changes in density only appear to be caused by major changes in the game that can be
anticipated.
23


Link to full report:
http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/2007/CMU-CS-07-158.pdf

[DragonStriker]

I've accepted that PSU will never be a popular game, everyone else should too and just enjoy it for what it has rather than complain about what it doesnt

People aren't complaining(usually) about "what it doesn't" and more about what it should. When we look at Japan and see them giving the Japanese server an event during the holidays and see our server saying "lol we don't work during the holidays! NO UPDATE FOR 4 weeks" people are going to complain. When you have to pay 10 dollars a month you expect some kind of respect as a consumer. Going 4 weeks without an update is disrespectfull when it's obvious(as shown in Japan) it could be done faster. These statements apply to almost every point in time in the last 3+ years. Remember we went from 2-3 months behind Japan at the start to now about 11-12 months behind. Oh and not to mention that only happened over a 3 year span.

[Alamar]

People aren't complaining(usually) about "what it doesn't" and more about what it should. When we look at Japan and see them giving the Japanese server an event during the holidays and see our server saying "lol we don't work during the holidays! NO UPDATE FOR 4 weeks" people are going to complain. When you have to pay 10 dollars a month you expect some kind of respect as a consumer. Going 4 weeks without an update is disrespectfull when it's obvious(as shown in Japan) it could be done faster. These statements apply to almost every point in time in the last 3+ years. Remember we went from 2-3 months behind Japan at the start to now about 11-12 months behind. Oh and not to mention that only happened over a 3 year span.

This is the complaint in a nut shell.

[Keilyn]

^.^ Hi Keilyn. you can just call me Rygar :P i'm only Super on here because someone already registered Rygar...anyways i think my point of view was missed because of how i worded it.

what i was saying is that regardless of how or why the company makes the game, doesnt affect why you START playing the game. you start playing the game because it looks cool, the battle system seems new or fun, or even that its a 'sequel' to PSO. i started playing simply because it was related to PSO, so i would have played this game no matter what it looked like or how it played. i didnt even look at screens, reviews, videos...i just went out and bought it the next day.

then when a person puts a lot of time into a game, they have to develop reasons to want to keep on playing the game. if the company made the game in such a way to make the most profit from doing the least amount of work, by just making things have low drop rates or something, then it would become obvious to the player and would eventually lead to that person losing interest and enjoyment out of playing the game. i believe this is kind of what you were talking about..? maybe im wrong

so what i was saying about the business model not mattering is this. when an individual plays a game, they play as they want to. for some people that means spending 10 hours a day to be one of the first to get the latest released item. for some people that means being social and spending most of their time in lobbies chatting with random people and making friends. for some people that means running around being a total asshole. for some people that means playing solo. for some people that means finding the most profitable item at the time and spamming that mission and selling the items to make a huge profit. in MMO's especially, the dynamics of the game are largely based on the actions of the players. for instance, a common 'problem' in PSU is that everybody runs White Beast all day long. Sega didnt intend for this to happen, sure the rewards are some of the best and it has good drops and maybe its easy or whatever, but ultimately its the actions of the players that made this a problem in the first place. sega designed the levels, chose the drops/rewards, insert boss here, connect to this lobby here, all they did was layout the framework of the virtual world. when they opened the doors, the players were free to do whatever they wish, so it is my opinion that everything that is wrong with PSU is the fault of the majority of the players. that's a pretty strong statement! i am not denying that sega has been restricting the content of the game to a degree that makes it impossible to maintain a exceptable level of entertainment out of this game. it is very annoying that it took so long to have access to everything that is on the disc. that is part of the business model, i assume, and yes, that has had a HUGE impact on how long most people play this game. but when i play this game i see the problem with slow content and adjusted my play style so that it doesnt have a negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. that's the main arguement i have. that's what i mean by:

"companies make games and you either like it or your don't. how or why they made it doesnt make a difference, its a game, to play, and you choose whether to play it or not, and for how long. that's a personal choice and doesnt rely on any business model. the end result and overall experience will be affected by that model though."

if you choose to burn through the available content in 2 months, you need more to keep your interest. well they aren't giving us more...now what? you quit. but instead of burning through the game, i chose to take my time. not spamming the mission with the highest xp so that i hit the level cap asap. not spamming a mission until that strong weapon. i have been playing since the date of my pso-world join and to date i have never reached a point where i had nothing to do because i played at a pace that supports longevity of interest in the game. it is because of how i chose to play the game based on what i was seeing happen. i adapted. that's why i say its a personal choice.

uhhh, well it feels like im going in circles so i'l stop here and work is over so i'm going home anyways. i hope my point is in there somewhere...

I've accepted that PSU will never be a popular game, everyone else should too and just enjoy it for what it has rather than complain about what it doesnt

Thank you for clarifying.

[SuKKrl]

for instance, a common 'problem' in PSU is that everybody runs White Beast all day long. Sega didnt intend for this to happen, sure the rewards are some of the best and it has good drops and maybe its easy or whatever, but ultimately its the actions of the players that made this a problem in the first place. sega designed the levels, chose the drops/rewards, insert boss here, connect to this lobby here, all they did was layout the framework of the virtual world. when they opened the doors, the players were free to do whatever they wish, so it is my opinion that everything that is wrong with PSU is the fault of the majority of the players. that's a pretty strong statement! i am not denying that sega has been restricting the content of the game to a degree that makes it impossible to maintain a exceptable level of entertainment out of this game.

Whether I also think that it is not entirely Sega's fault, I do think it has deserves a part of the game.One thing game developers should pay attention (should beacuse few of them really do this) is to the game balance, which in PSU could be better. (but I don't think it is disastrous like I've seen here before)

[Squirrel3D]

People aren't complaining(usually) about "what it doesn't" and more about what it should. When we look at Japan and see them giving the Japanese server an event during the holidays and see our server saying "lol we don't work during the holidays! NO UPDATE FOR 4 weeks" people are going to complain. When you have to pay 10 dollars a month you expect some kind of respect as a consumer. Going 4 weeks without an update is disrespectfull when it's obvious(as shown in Japan) it could be done faster. These statements apply to almost every point in time in the last 3+ years. Remember we went from 2-3 months behind Japan at the start to now about 11-12 months behind. Oh and not to mention that only happened over a 3 year span.


All you need to know about why one shouldn't give a damn about PSU anymore can be found in that very statement.

Some of you can sugar coat it and turn the other cheek all you want. Enjoy it for what it has? That's a completely blinded view of the reality of what has happened to this game! 4 weeks without anything at all other than a christmas decoration to the lobbys? That insults me as a long time subscriber to this game. A 4-star universe 1 these days....does that tell you anything about who's still there and who's fed up with the BS and have moved on?

I'm this close to just making the call and saying "cancel, I am done, I'll just stick with blue burst".

I haven't used Cynica or Streak Thomas at all lately....maybe I nver will again and just give away all their stuff.

[Alamar]

If we all are here still playing PS AOTI this time next year I will be very surprised.

[Midori Oku]

If we all are here still playing PS AOTI this time next year I will be very surprised.

i will be :-D

[Arada]

I think he means "Sega will prbably shut down the PC/PS2 US server in 2010 and I'll be very surprised if they don't".

[jc5507]

does sega even read these forums and did they ever take down the demo for xbox

[ashley50]

does sega even read these forums and did they ever take down the demo for xbox

Why would they? They got their own forums and all...

[Zeek123]

Why would they? They got their own forums and all...

Doesn't one of the mods work for Sega though?

Shoot me in the face if I'm wrong.

But anyway... Major companies like Sega don't watch forums... they watch money.

I would say 'boycott' for what you want, but given Sega's history... they would probably take it as a "Pull out now" sort of thing. It's a lose-lose situation.

If they do close, I'd like to see private servers of PSU go up. Sega's already proven they don't mind them too much.

[jc5507]

so why doesn't anyone post complaints about the lack of updates on their forums? I think they finally got rid of the demo

[Volcompat321]

so why doesn't anyone post complaints about the lack of updates on their forums? I think they finally got rid of the demo

Do you really think they DON'T complain?
I could link AT LEAST 50 topics created in the month of December, complaining about SEGA.

[Frozensword]

Sega needs to catch up fast. Out for holidays, that makes me laugh. Christmas is one day. New Year is one day. Even if some people are on vacation, not all of them will be. I estimate that if we had the right updates, we would be caught up in 4 months at the most, but we all know that won't happen. On top of that, there are always people working to keep the servers up. They could keep people for updates.

[Keilyn]

The best way to get at sega is the way that PSO players did when the PSO servers shutdown unfairly.

The ones who were angry banded together and posted on the top sites where most MMO traffic goes....and the result was many sites learning what kind of company sega was....and many people after refused to buy anything with a Sega label on it.

I know people who you can show them a max rated Sega Game and they will refuse to buy or play it due to what happened with the PSO servers...and to me that is excellent attitude...and a perfect way to stand up to a company that can care less about its customers.

The lack of service in this game made me think of the opposite about Phantasy Star Portable II....Sure people say I am missing out, but its their addiction to the series that keeps buying more and more games while simultaneously being screwed......I wont buy the game knowing that I am paying money monthly just so sega can slap me in the face by trying to get me to buy a handheld and a game (like they did with PSO when it went from DC to GC and then from GC to XBOX and then to PC...each version better, but forcing customers to buy a new console each time to play a better version)...I wont fall in that same trap again.

If Sega had pulled its act together years ago...specially the many who had faith and bought a dreamcast even knowing it had a Microsoft Operating system on it, and the way it was discontinued completely by all developers and Sega.......It would have many more fans and players...

So Sega has a track record of creating products, not supporting them well outside of Japan....They are a company that makes Arcade Style Games because once you have the Core Game, it doesn't need much maintanance and simply generates money...

[Zeek123]

Wow. I didn't know that Keilyn. That is really awesome.

And Sega is a shitty sort of company. That Sega rep told us to "buy two copies of PS:P2 and maybe they'll make another console version!" Asshole...

But a "serious" global movement like that... wouldn't they just take the easy route and just pump out minigame shovelware? Take advantage of the mass market Nintendo's created?

[DuRaL]

like they did with PSO when it went from DC to GC and then from GC to XBOX and then to PC...each version better, but forcing customers to buy a new console each time to play a better version
that was a different situation, though.
Dreamcast was a total failure and Sega couldn't afford developing any more PSO games for it.
Then Gamecube had the problem that Nintendo didn't give a f*** about online games, so it wasn't a console attractive to people who like online games. And after Nintendo even stopped the production of Broadband Adapters, it didn't make any more sense for Sega to release PSOBB for the GameCube.
Xbox probably didn't get PSOBB because it was way too unsuccessful in japan, which means low sales figures in the core-region of PSO-products.
And for PSOBB, well, only western gamers got screwed, because they had proven in previous PSO games that they harm other players (NOL, FSOD, corrupt, ...), thus got a seperated server which, of course, didn't last as long as the JP server due to the naturally lower population.

PSP2 on the other hand could as well be an expansion for PC and Xbox360, because PC, of course, doesn't have a short lifespan like a console, and Xbox360 is (one of) the main console(s) for online gamers and will still last a bit..
Sega's only reason to release PSO/U-games for handheld instead of expanding PSU was Capcom's success with Monster Hunter titles on PSP (in japan! you have to understand that PSO is a game for japan..)
so this time it was pure greed, but then again, Sega is a huge company with investors and shareholders that obviously prefer high sales over satisfied (western) customers..

by the way, take a look at sonic games.. they show very well Sega's new motto since the failure of Dreamcast: "we don't care whether our products are good as long as they still sell well"

Sega seems to not think about the future here..
because you may buy 1 or 2, maybe even 3 crappy sonic games.. but after 3 crap games you probably won't buy the next sonic game no matter what..
and i see Sega lose a lot of potential customers for the next PSO game, due to what they did/do (or did not do) with PSU..

[Alamar]

My sister and I already agreed we will not be buying another PS game after this. We played since Dreamcast V.1, but this version really broke the camels back.

[Squirrel3D]

And you know what Alamar....

After thinking it over all week...it looks like I'm ready to throw in the towel. So with that, please look for a quitting thread from me.

[Volcompat321]

And you know what Alamar....

After thinking it over all week...it looks like I'm ready to throw in the towel. So with that, please look for a quitting thread from me.

Why make a thread?
It will only start arguments, and lame flames.

No need.
Have fun, sorry to see you leave. :/

[DragonStriker]

Quitting threads give me something to read/post in. Keep it up I like wasting a few minutes a day reading about how the game has once again kicked itself in the nuts by not giving us good service.

[SuperRygar]

hmm, i disagree about boycotting sega/PS games. that's extremist. i feel that i got my money's worth out of PSU. if i had been paying to play every single month for 3 years, then that statement would be false. but i've paid for a number of months approx. equal to the amount of content we received xD probably about 12-15 months i played. close to 200$ i guess all-in-all. i spent more on cigarettes than i did on psu in that timespan. im satisfied

and i look forward to the next PS game. you dont need to refuse to buy a game until you see what its like. you can not have that attitude, wait for the game to come out, see what its like first hand, wait a few months or a year to see if it has all the same problems, and then make your decision based on actual data. that's the most rational course of action. you all assume that nothing will ever change based on sega's history. there's no doubt that it is a shitty history, but anything is possible

[Keilyn]

that was a different situation, though.
Dreamcast was a total failure and Sega couldn't afford developing any more PSO games for it.
Then Gamecube had the problem that Nintendo didn't give a f*** about online games, so it wasn't a console attractive to people who like online games. And after Nintendo even stopped the production of Broadband Adapters, it didn't make any more sense for Sega to release PSOBB for the GameCube.
Xbox probably didn't get PSOBB because it was way too unsuccessful in japan, which means low sales figures in the core-region of PSO-products.
And for PSOBB, well, only western gamers got screwed, because they had proven in previous PSO games that they harm other players (NOL, FSOD, corrupt, ...), thus got a seperated server which, of course, didn't last as long as the JP server due to the naturally lower population.

PSP2 on the other hand could as well be an expansion for PC and Xbox360, because PC, of course, doesn't have a short lifespan like a console, and Xbox360 is (one of) the main console(s) for online gamers and will still last a bit..
Sega's only reason to release PSO/U-games for handheld instead of expanding PSU was Capcom's success with Monster Hunter titles on PSP (in japan! you have to understand that PSO is a game for japan..)
so this time it was pure greed, but then again, Sega is a huge company with investors and shareholders that obviously prefer high sales over satisfied (western) customers..

by the way, take a look at sonic games.. they show very well Sega's new motto since the failure of Dreamcast: "we don't care whether our products are good as long as they still sell well"

Sega seems to not think about the future here..
because you may buy 1 or 2, maybe even 3 crappy sonic games.. but after 3 crap games you probably won't buy the next sonic game no matter what..
and i see Sega lose a lot of potential customers for the next PSO game, due to what they did/do (or did not do) with PSU..


Thats the beauty of being a gamer and not being a sega shareholder...I don't have to think about the company and I can simply eliminate the stress I would have if I was part of such an entity.

In short, I can be a gamer and say "Where are the updates?" and "How come Japan is a year ahead of us in updating?" and I can ask what is fair and what isn't fair.

I don't have to understand that PSU is a Japanese Game...That has no bearing on it since Globalization in the gaming industry happened long ago. I can simply say "If American and European Game companies can release multilingual formats and updates globaly, then how come sega has problems?"

I don't have to "care about sega" as that is just being idiotic. But I can care about the stability of the game....But this Bullshit that the Japanese Game gets updated over and over again makes me feel like I am being punished for not being Japanese....which is not fair.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Because the last time they did that, english players went on a rampage of wide-spread hacking, duping, cheating, and FSODing everyone in sight.

Hate to say it, but english players have proven to Sega pretty convincingly that they can't be on a global server and peacefully interact with other countries. A few bad apples ruined it for everyone.

Too bad that's not true. The Xbox 360 server has everybody on the same one. NA/EU/JP all play together... and it's quite nice. No FSOD, no hacking. Sure, there are asshats who did the S+10 glitch when that was there, but it didn't ruin the game. It's a pretty peaceful place all things considered (angry players who don't get content updates enough).

[jc5507]

well xbox 360 is great to bad I wish they would just put all the servers together i don't think ppl would be that bad toeach other

[Alamar]

and i look forward to the next PS game. you dont need to refuse to buy a game until you see what its like. you can not have that attitude, wait for the game to come out, see what its like first hand, wait a few months or a year to see if it has all the same problems, and then make your decision based on actual data. that's the most rational course of action. you all assume that nothing will ever change based on sega's history. there's no doubt that it is a shitty history, but anything is possible

You seem to want to keep giving them a chance. You can only give someone so many chances then you just have to come to terms with the fact that they either can't do it or refuse to.
Either way count the games then count the problems. I don't have that much faith in anything in this world. I see them for what they are. They fail at maintaining a game for longevity. They keep pumping out these half azz titles under the PS name.
They have new ones out now. Why not make one and put a decent effort into it. Maintain it, give in game support, regular updates or lesser updates that are larger. Listen to the players they are your life blood.
Does Sega do any of that? Nope, just keep feeding us subpar games take the immediate money and run. No upkeep what so ever. I would rather not see another title that will end up just like this one and the many before it.

Are you not tired of the same build up and let down time and time again? When is enough enough? How many more games is it going to take to get it right?
Why do they deserve more chances then the many the already had? How can anyone not get something right after all them chances?
If this were their 2nd or 3rd game I would agree with you. But they have been around the block a few times now. I am just fed up with the same old BS with them time and time again.

[Keilyn]

Alamar...

This is the same reason as to how I developed a problem with Japanese Anime....You saw these super cool, great stories and all of a sudden after a great build up all you could hope for is the last 2 - 3 episodes of mecha animes and science fiction animes to bombard you with a philosophy lecture instead of an actual ending.

[Kion]

Still better than most western tv shows which repeat the same basic premise each episode until the people get board. Some anime pull off the philosophy nicely, but most of them are cliche` introverted sequences of the thought process of the author.

On topic; is there any way to fix PSU?
a) all at once mega content update to catch up to japan?
b) pool all of the severs?
c) private servers?

It`s been three years and Sega has done a good job of proving they don`t care. Is there any reason to still hold out?

[Keilyn]

Still better than most western tv shows which repeat the same basic premise each episode until the people get board. Some anime pull off the philosophy nicely, but most of them are cliche` introverted sequences of the thought process of the author.

Law and Order (one of my favorite shows)

Back to Topic:

Episode III is finished to Text Translation is minimal...All we would need are the maps, the linking and the supp update and its very easy to add/update. If Sega wanted to....In under 1 month all servers could be caught up with one another...They don't do it out of laziness....

...and before people start replying that is an impossibility..I've done a lot of patch work on shooters and my own MMO servers...Its not THAT hard as PSU is a PvE CORPG (not an MMO) and if there was a reason why it would be hard to update, it would have to be to code organization making post delivery maintainance..

Im still working on the fourth chapter to a small multiplayer RPG/Card game as a part of a project. ^_^

[Alamar]

Still better than most western tv shows which repeat the same basic premise each episode until the people get board. Some anime pull off the philosophy nicely, but most of them are cliche` introverted sequences of the thought process of the author.

On topic; is there any way to fix PSU?
a) all at once mega content update to catch up to japan?
b) pool all of the severs?
c) private servers?

It`s been three years and Sega has done a good job of proving they don`t care. Is there any reason to still hold out?

C.....That is the only way we will "catch" up to them. If this game were a child Children services would have taken it and put it in foster care long time ago.

[HyperShot-X-]

On topic; is there any way to fix PSU?
a) all at once mega content update to catch up to japan?
not gonna be happening & it's rather pointless, just praying we dont get any further behind is all we can hope for.


b) pool all of the severs?
would've been done already if it were possible, 100% not gonna happen b/c it never happened b4 & never will be.


c) private servers?
if that's worth the time & effort, i would be playing PSO on its private server rather than playing PSU on paid server right now.


It`s been three years and Sega has done a good job of proving they don`t care. Is there any reason to still hold out?
no reason to waste time even talking about it if you're on pc/ps2 local server, u can either start over on xbox 360 server where there still is a community alive or grab a PSP on PSP just like everyone else did. You can talk all u want all day here but nothing will change.

[Alamar]

no reason to waste time even talking about it if you're on pc/ps2 local server, u can either start over on xbox 360 server where there still is a community alive or grab a PSP on PSP just like everyone else did. You can talk all u want all day here but nothing will change.

Yes move on to the next screwed up version it's new! it's improv... It's new!
That Sega sure did fix their problems

http://www.pso-world.com/news/02237-psp2-compensation-online-issues-updated-dec-25

This screams the start of failure once again. They will NEVER get it right.

[HyperShot-X-]

Getting it right is totally different from making a perfect online game with no bugs whatsoever, and yet they seemed to have patched up that bug soon enough. You're living in a dreamland if you were thinking there is such a thing as flawless online game.

[Alamar]

Getting it right is totally different from making a perfect online game with no bugs whatsoever, and yet they seemed to have patched up that bug soon enough. You're living in a dreamland if you were thinking there is such a thing as flawless online game.

I never said I wanted a perfect game. I am a realist I stated so in this very thread. I am not a fanboy nor am I in "dreamland" If you wish to keep looking for that light at the end of the tunnel by all means have a blast. some like to see the good in everything. I don't have the patience to look anymore for it in them.
How long has that game been out? how many PS games have they made? And finally how many have they got right?

[Keilyn]

The other option altogether is play a completely different online game. I have a small list of people who went from playing PSO to PSU and then went to guild wars....around 10 - 12 players. I know around half of them still play...

The only other solution is the one I don't like, but its to simply join the Japanese server and forget about the PC/PS2 version because the story has been concluded to Episode III that all what remains are just free missions, rare missions and events...

[stinkyfish97]

all the updates they already have will be released as an expansion which they will charge us 20 bucks for.

[HyperShot-X-]

I never said I wanted a perfect game. I am a realist I stated so in this very thread. I am not a fanboy nor am I in "dreamland" If you wish to keep looking for that light at the end of the tunnel by all means have a blast. some like to see the good in everything. I don't have the patience to look anymore for it in them.
How long has that game been out? how many PS games have they made? And finally how many have they got right?
'getting it right' is subjective term and if you really think that you still haven't found what you were looking for by now ever since pso started it all, then you never truly found it b/c it wasn't there in the 1st place, and that's just sad. I'm just fortunate that I'm not in that situation.

[Danny_Dark]

If we all are here still playing PS AOTI this time next year I will be very surprised.

Some Old Player's Won't Be Around Anymore...

[Cranberry]

This is the most frustrating part about the PSU support. As much as you really want to do something about it, it feels like there is nothing you can do. As mentioned before, Sega has a long history of doing things like this. It’s frustrated English players for years. Sometimes I really think that in Sega’s eyes the cardinal sin is to not be Japanese.

A few years ago, a forum member here fought long and hard to get Eternal Christmas taken off of the X-Box PSO servers. I’m not sure if it was a man or a woman, but I’m going to use the pronoun “he” with no disrespect intended if this user is female. He called Sega and Microsoft frequently, sending lord knows how many emails and devoting many hours to trying to get results. His battle ultimately ended in failure, but he was a winner here on PSO-World because he put so much effort into fighting for the X-Box players. I wasn’t on X-Box version but I respected him for his persistence and his efforts. I even PM’d him recently to let him know that his struggle was appreciated and hasn’t been forgotten. Even though his efforts were ultimately futile, perhaps he was onto something. Maybe we need a stronger human element.

Maybe this is wishful thinking and I’m living in a total fantasy world here, but instead of coming here to PSO-World and ranting about how terrible Sega is, I want to at least try and come up with a solution. Maybe Sega could use a little help, and maybe, just maybe, it might not be impossible to get them that help. I may be wrong on this, but I am assuming one thing that slows the content updates down is that they need to be translated. Especially if the translation team has been reduced or put to work on other projects, I could see this being a possible reason for delayed content.

I’ve worked many hours with a friend translating Japanese Blue Burst quest scripts into English so that they can be brought onto *sees Ryna’s Rappy Police aiming their guns at me, ready to fire if I dare say the name* …easy guys easy… ahem… brought onto a certain place… and they were accepted and I felt that we did a good solid translation. I wonder if there’s any possible way Sega would be willing to give us the Japanese scripts and allow us to translate for them. I’m not looking for monetary compensation for it either, I’d even write that up in an official letter for Sega and even have it notarized that all rights and copyright of our translation would be given to them. I could pay my friend myself for her work, and my part of it would be volunteer. If we could prepare the content that way, then all Sega would have to do is review, test, and release it.

Is what I’m proposing even remotely feasible or is this pure wishful thinking? I’m not sure, but I want to do something more productive than screaming about it on a forum. I genuinely want to try and actually help.

[Juza]

Is what I’m proposing even remotely feasible or is this pure wishful thinking? I’m not sure, but I want to do something more productive than screaming about it on a forum. I genuinely want to try and actually help.

Of course it's possible. There are tons of ways Sega could pull it off if they were interested. It'll just never happen, because it'll still cost Sega some money (fancy legal documents/NDAs/etc.) and they're adverse to even spending one yen regardless of how much goodwill it'd earn them.

Pffft.

I need to stop playing PS* games. I feel like an abused spouse who's too dumb to leave. But PSU was different, man! Sega learned! I didn't get NOL'd or lose my character to a FSOD! And there were more than four missions!

Wait, I'm sorry, Sonic Team, what was I thinking? *sniffles and goes back to to the kitchen, err, mindlessly running Innocent Girl*

[Powder Keg]

Doing something about it is only a few clicks away:

https://www.psu-billing.com/

-or-

1-800-4MY-XBOX

[Alamar]

Doing something about it is only a few clicks away:

https://www.psu-billing.com/

-or-

1-800-4MY-XBOX

Alot already have and more will. You don't have to tell people to do what already is happening.

[Powder Keg]

Hey, I'm just here to help.

[Cranberry]

I meant something that actually works.

[Powder Keg]

It worked great for me.

Only Sega can do something on their own that will work for them.

[Cranberry]

What do you mean it worked great for you? I think perhaps you are not understanding the goal? The goal is to bring the Japanese content to the english servers. Understand? Paying for a subscription hasn't accomplished that any more than buying an X-Box license ended Eternal Christmas.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Of course it's possible. There are tons of ways Sega could pull it off if they were interested. It'll just never happen, because it'll still cost Sega some money (fancy legal documents/NDAs/etc.) and they're adverse to even spending one yen regardless of how much goodwill it'd earn them.

Pffft.

I need to stop playing PS* games. I feel like an abused spouse who's too dumb to leave. But PSU was different, man! Sega learned! I didn't get NOL'd or lose my character to a FSOD! And there were more than four missions!

Wait, I'm sorry, Sonic Team, what was I thinking? *sniffles and goes back to to the kitchen, err, mindlessly running Innocent Girl*

I made that analogy once on the official forums and the fanbois had an aneurysm. It still feels appropriate though.

Seriously though no matter how much effort SEGA puts into the Regional servers there will never be a way to ignore the fact that we are approximately one year behind SoJ's servers despite starting less than 2 months behind.

[Powder Keg]

What do you mean it worked great for you? I think perhaps you are not understanding the goal? The goal is to bring the Japanese content to the english servers. Understand? Paying for a subscription hasn't accomplished that any more than buying an X-Box license ended Eternal Christmas.

The sooner you realize the goal will not be reached in anything close to be considered a timely manner, the better off you're going to be. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[neilp4453]

The sooner you realize the goal will not be reached in anything close to be considered a timely manner, the better off you're going to be. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Which is exactly why I am a proponent of complaining threads. Sega just doesn't get it.

[Keilyn]

The problem with Japanese Games is simply that when I play them I feel bad for not being born Japanese even though I know the language. Asians tend to make you feel like this in their games. The cool thing is that they had 100s of chances of trying to make a good game.

They start out good and then flop later...While American Games tend to have better service and last longer? Sounds stereotypical?

Worlds of Warcraft has survived for six years, Guild Wars is close to five years....their subscriber bases go up, while a lot of Asian MMO subscriber bases go down. The first three day weekend of Guild Wars Beta had 500,000+ Players in the servers playing simultaneously....

...While Sega in a three year period could not reach that subscriber base in three versions of PSU. PSO/PSU both had potential but Sega just let them flop....this is also true with Square Enix's FFXI...where they had a lot of people and lost many and then tried to show off how great they were with level sync.

Most people who play games do not look at game commercials. They tend to look at IGN, MMORPG.COM or some major site or development page and forum about a game. The easiest way to teach a corporation a lesson...is to simply not buy any products and voice your opinion as a collective and service, quality and story...and before you know it people will spread it around the net and such corporation would be lucky if they can even penetrate the market.

I think the PSU community are people who Sega doesn't deserve. They are patient, Tolerant and spend their time playing and paying for a game which undergoes problems like Error 060 and Error 065. They deserve better and they have suffered long enough. No community I know of has put up with the level of bullshit that the PSU community has...First with PSO and its many version...Then PSU and its branching into handhelds.

[Xefi]

I think the PSU community are people who Sega doesn't deserve. They are patient, Tolerant and spend their time playing and paying for a game which undergoes problems like Error 060 and Error 065. They deserve better and they have suffered long enough. No community I know of has put up with the level of bullshit that the PSU community has...First with PSO and its many version...Then PSU and its branching into handhelds.

You know we can't help it because we love our Phantasy Star games and
want the games to succeed in every way possible. I've been very patient
with PSU and its slow updates lately but still cheer for them on from behind.

Sega really needs to move at a SUPER faster pace to have more customers back.
I know it's really easier to just say motivated words to help and push them to do
their best, but i guess it's really hard for them to accomplish such a hard request coming
from one of their fan (me). Despite all the problems and issues PSU has, I still wish for
Sega to have good fortune and make PSU into a better experience for the players in
this New Year. :cat:

[DragonStriker]

The problem with Japanese Games is simply that when I play them I feel bad for not being born Japanese even though I know the language. Asians tend to make you feel like this in their games. The cool thing is that they had 100s of chances of trying to make a good game.

They start out good and then flop later...While American Games tend to have better service and last longer? Sounds stereotypical?

Worlds of Warcraft has survived for six years, Guild Wars is close to five years....their subscriber bases go up, while a lot of Asian MMO subscriber bases go down. The first three day weekend of Guild Wars Beta had 500,000+ Players in the servers playing simultaneously....

...While Sega in a three year period could not reach that subscriber base in three versions of PSU. PSO/PSU both had potential but Sega just let them flop....this is also true with Square Enix's FFXI...where they had a lot of people and lost many and then tried to show off how great they were with level sync.

Most people who play games do not look at game commercials. They tend to look at IGN, MMORPG.COM or some major site or development page and forum about a game. The easiest way to teach a corporation a lesson...is to simply not buy any products and voice your opinion as a collective and service, quality and story...and before you know it people will spread it around the net and such corporation would be lucky if they can even penetrate the market.

I think the PSU community are people who Sega doesn't deserve. They are patient, Tolerant and spend their time playing and paying for a game which undergoes problems like Error 060 and Error 065. They deserve better and they have suffered long enough. No community I know of has put up with the level of bullshit that the PSU community has...First with PSO and its many version...Then PSU and its branching into handhelds.


As much as I agree with a lot of this post, it's ridiculous to say the best way to improve a game you currently want to play is to not buy it. As bad as the treatment is, it's retarded for people to quit the game on that basis alone. When you quit, it should be because you don't enjoy the game or don't find the money worth it, not to get back at a company. I personally hate SEGA's treatment of the customers but I still enjoy/love the game and I wouldn't quit to try and make them get me better treatment. Atleast how I see it is, from my selfish standpoint what does quitting do for me when I don't even know if I intend on playing the next Phantasy Star game. I'm just going to enjoy the cirumstance now and bitch and moan and hope for change.

[DragonStriker]

I've been very patient
with PSU and its slow updates lately :

Uh they have been slow for the entire duration of this game. That's why we have lost about 10 months of ground over 3 years to Japan.

[AOI_Tifa_Lockhart]

Hiya all,

Are there ever official comments from the guys over in SEGA US? I'm guessing they're the ones responsible with adding these updates to the EU/US servers? Whats their official take on things I wonder? Because all the fans realize its slow updates which seems to be killing PC/PS2 PSU and people switching to X360 to play PSU is no doubt the final nail in the coffin. Its rather annoying to know too that there's probably more people on the 360 and PC PSU combined who play the free PSU demo and refuse to pay £7 a month extra ontop of the yearly gold membership fee which I see as a bit cheap but each to their own.

I'd just like to know if the guys in SEGA actually plan on doing anything pro-active to save the US/EU server or if they plan to just be indifferent to the rapid population decrease like they were with PSO.

Tifa

[Keilyn]

As much as I agree with a lot of this post, it's ridiculous to say the best way to improve a game you currently want to play is to not buy it. As bad as the treatment is, it's retarded for people to quit the game on that basis alone. When you quit, it should be because you don't enjoy the game or don't find the money worth it, not to get back at a company. I personally hate SEGA's treatment of the customers but I still enjoy/love the game and I wouldn't quit to try and make them get me better treatment. Atleast how I see it is, from my selfish standpoint what does quitting do for me when I don't even know if I intend on playing the next Phantasy Star game. I'm just going to enjoy the cirumstance now and bitch and moan and hope for change.

Examples ^^

When Epic Games released UT2003, many hated it and went back to UT99. Epic was challenged at every turn and in a short time released UT2004 which had every single major demand of the players resolved (including all the UT2003 content) and a headset included with the game.

When Microsoft made Windows Vista, they tried to convince people it was popular....but they failed because many XP users actively kept countering Microsoft at every turn. All their Vista advertisement failed...all their propaganda failed.... By refusing to buy it and continuously boycotting it, Microsoft was forced to create Windows 7.

When the company Krispy Kreme entered the state of Massachusetts, they had a good opening about doughnuts and coffee they were selling...I went one afternoon and saw their portions were small. They told me they were popular out west...well customers demanded portions to be as good as Dunkin Doughnuts and instead of meeting the demand. they made extravagant claims and in response....the people of Massachusetts refused to buy their doughnuts that right now Krispy Kreme doesn't exist in Massachusetts.

When Hybrid cars were first made, people refused to buy them..The commercials said that they would save money on fuel..People were smart enough to know that in order for them to make a net gain on saving money in fuel costs, they would have to first run an equivalent of 400 - 500K miles given the lifespan of the hybrid....this forced the manufacturers to make Hybrids at lower prices and that is when they started selling.

Below is my personal favorite

When the Next Generation Consoles were released, their prices and failure rates were high. Playstation 3s and Xbox 360s were undersold. You could walk through different stores and find Xbox360s and Playstation 3s on the shelves. The one console you did not find anywhere for a long time was a nintendo wii. Wii had the lowest price of the three and was affordable...

People refused to buy them and most would say "Im not buying until the price goes down." Sony and Microsoft for a while made limited edition versions to get people to buy them..but that also failed, so Sony and Microsoft had to reduce their prices and also fix their hardware problems to get people into buying them.

I have many more examples I can give you where products have been improved by not buying them. The monitor I own which is a widescreen CRT monitor by Sony is also an example too ^^





I personally hate SEGA's treatment of the customers but I still enjoy/love the game and I wouldn't quit to try and make them get me better treatment.

Isn't this like Drug Addiction? You don't like the high price or perhaps the seller who supplies you the drug, but you love the effect you take from the drug when it hits.

[Akaimizu]

There is one big difference, not buying them which improves products usually only happens when two things are considered.

1. The company having lots of money to back and improvement.
2. When the majority of the supporters of said product vote with the dollars.

Not something we have here. For one, obviously the company in question doesn't have as much disposable income. And second, they seem to get by on Japanese support alone.

Japanese software companies often work with a different mantra. Anybody remember Tobal 2? Because there seem to be a lack of Tobal 1 sales over here, they didn't bother releasing the much improved Tobal 2 over here. It had the feature-set of something that would've received a lot of attention. Gaming mags that actually decided to give their review of the overseas release, gave it highest marks. But with that decision, we had the death of a possible *huge* 3D fighting franchise. Instead, we got leftovers from Square that were nowhere as good as Tobal 2.

To this day, I don't think Square ever caught lightning in a bottle again, when it comes to fighting games. All from the aspect of, no research of customer wants, in deciding on a product release.

[Tek[+]Lok]

I wants fancy update ; _ ;

[stinkyfish97]

This game needs fixing thats for sure. To me sonic team is about making money and not about providing us with decent service. Why do I say this, because all these updates we should have gotten 2 years ago. If you already have it all done why not move on to something new? With all the wasted time we could have already had another expansion to this game, actually thats kinda where I think we are headed. I think what will happen is instead of updates they are waiting for all the JP servers to finish their updates and will just sell us what they have as an expansion. I dont see us having guardian cash missions since I dont really see our servers running for all to much longer. I mean 2 years max and hopefully there will be a new Phantasy Star and hopefully it wont be run by the greedy leaches of whoever decides on how we are getting updates now. Yeah I really dont see us getting guardian cash missions, I think all of those missions will be released as the final expansion or update for this game. Realistically lets face it once JP servers get the rest of their content which should be at the end of this following year how much longer do you think we have before they move on to something else? My guess is not far off. What I see happening is they will string this year out give us one more GBR event sometime in the next 3-4 months, and then they can stall us with mag+, they still have yet to release the next waves of items at the weapons trade in mission, they have quite a few stall tactics for this year set up, and then we might see a couple updates for the rest of the year but after that I see them just releasing the rest of the stuff for this game as an expansion. Why buy an expansion? Well I dont see them integrating guardian cash missions in over here, I think those missions as well as all those weapons will just be introduced as new content and we will have to pay 30 bucks for all that rest of the content to this game, sorta like AoI was an expansion, I think the rest of the content will be released as an expansion. And after that happens they will probably get rid of paying 10 bucks a month and effectively tell us they are going to kill the servers in 1-2 years. We may even catch up to JP guys. Their content will all be released to them and then we will get all of ours around the same time.

The problem is not with the game, the concept, design, even the controls and setup are brilliant. The problem is paying 10 dollars a month and actually expecting some new content. For how much I pay a month I could have purchased lets see. The boarderlands content as well as all the fallout content and even the map packs to some other games I like, Call of Duty. When I look at 10 bucks a month and what I get from phantasy and what games like borderlands are providing, i really question why I do pay for this game. Its not a question of whether the game is still fun, it is and will always be fun to me, it comes down to what am I getting for my money and so far the answer is I am getting nothing. The thing is I dont know why they do not realize they could have struck gold with this game if only they kept the content rolling out like other games do. Seriously there really is no other game on the xbox like phantasy star and I mean that. I think even the people who quit playing would admitt that. They didnt quit because the game is not fun, they quit because 10 bucks a month isnt worth it to them if the updates arent gonna be constant. And just rotating the freaking casino items doesnt count as an update sega, thats a bullshit update and do you really think that is worth 10 bucks?

That is my wacked out idea and truely that is where we are headed. Sega is not gonna pay sonci team to keep releasing material once they stop giving JP updates, and guess what JP updates have been slowing for some time now, their servers are dying too. So if they arent going to pay sonic team to give us updates what I see happening is them just releasing a massive content release, in other words an expansion. So we will eventually get their guys I kinda hope its sooner rather than later myself.

Also I think the next Phantasy Star game will be released with Guardian Cash missions from the start, those missions were kinda just a test to see if actually making us first pay 10 bucks a month and then pay for in game content as well would actually work.

Sorry for the long post just trying to make sense of where we are headed and if I want to even pay the next few months or just wait till the rest of the content we are owed is released.

Again I want to say we dont have a problem with the game it is brilliant in every way, the music, missions, most everything about PSU we like I would say. The few things we hate however, no updates while still paying 10 bucks a month? Those kinda things drive us crazy.

[Danny_Dark]

As I Said Before...,
No Suplemental Update, No Money...,
That's The End Of The Line...

[stinkyfish97]

on a side not has anyone been checking out the missions JP servers have and all these newer weapons they are getting?

http://psupedia.info/Event_missions

Ive just been looking at some of the stuff and its looking pretty good for them. Looks like a new bow that they later are gonna be able to exchange for a possibly even better bow as well as a bunch of new boards and other stuff as well.

[Cranberry]

As I mentioned before, there's another reason why not paying for the game will not get them to fix the problems.

A respectable company that sees it is losing money because of this would say: "We're losing our customer base, but I see a way to bring it back. Let's get a team working on the content and get it over to our customers. That should bring them back."

But Sega will say the following: "We're losing our customer base, they want this content we are charging them for but not delivering to them. Tell Clarence to pull the plug on the servers. We're done with this game."

This is one reason I'm trying to think outside of the box and find some other way.

[Zeek123]

When the Next Generation Consoles were released, their prices and failure rates were high. Playstation 3s and Xbox 360s were undersold. You could walk through different stores and find Xbox360s and Playstation 3s on the shelves. The one console you did not find anywhere for a long time was a nintendo wii. Wii had the lowest price of the three and was affordable...

People refused to buy them and most would say "Im not buying until the price goes down." Sony and Microsoft for a while made limited edition versions to get people to buy them..but that also failed, so Sony and Microsoft had to reduce their prices and also fix their hardware problems to get people into buying them.

Yet another thing with untapped potential.

EDIT: Not graphically of course. But that is a huge install base.

[SuperRygar]

i just read the last few pages and i was gonna start quoting people up the yin-yang....but then i lost all interest in this topic ^.^; il just say a few last things of interest

my point of view is different and will never be adopted by anyone so i really have nothing else to add. to Alamar, its not that i WANT to keep giving them a chance, im just not writing off the games of a company based on any one instance. if you feel let down, then by all means boycott sega. my point is that i've not been let down. clearly i set the bar much lower when it comes to online games and what i expect to receive for what i pay. im happy with PSU in its entirety. you can keep stressing over it if ya like but im not going feel the same way just because you and the majority of players do ;P ignorance is bliss my friends

nice examples Keilyn xD my personal favorite is the donut one haha and my thoughts on Guild Wars: when i played guild wars, it seemed to be a very sloppy game. the way drops looked, the areas, just the overall feeling of the game reminded me of old crappy games and i had no interest in playing past level 5. its cool that you find enjoyment out of it, but not everyone can handle a game like that. its also a poor substitute for PSU as it is a point and click game. personally i HATE point and click games. id say guild wars is the perfect substitue for WoW players who dont want to pay to play. also about ffxi, id say level sync was introduced to allow a player to find a party no matter what level and who else was looking. level sync is the only reason i didnt quit ffxi once i hit lvl 40. i was playing before it was there, leaving a party because you leveled up was hella lame

Cranberry, that's a very admirable thing to do. perfect world, sega would be happy for your effort and make something happen. but maybe the translation alone isn't the problem. its kind of hard to really know what needs to be done when the company doesnt talk about it. your right though, not buying a product will not always make a company take notice and improve. as keilyn pointed out, there are a number of examples where it worked, but im sure there are just as many where it doesnt.

if someone buys the game today, along with 3 close friends, do you think they will complain about lack of content? nope, its only the people who have been playing for a long time. PSU simply isn't long lasting, only fast acting. i had this thought though...if the reason we aren't getting content is because of translations, or globalization, or any of that legal stuff, then the content in question would be japanese? yes? they're just lazy/slow with releasing it. but the content is already on the disc, they dont' have to do anything except allow us access to it. i dont really see the connection between the two. that might be true for the major events, but im sure they dont' have to translate anything to give us S3 rank on some mission.


all in all, id say this was the best discussion i've ever contributed to. cheers to that. im a happy customer, too bad im one of the few left

[Max B]

all in all, id say this was the best discussion i've ever contributed to. cheers to that. im a happy customer, too bad im one of the few left

Yes, your are one of the very few left on Ps2 lol:-D

[Keilyn]

nice examples Keilyn xD my personal favorite is the donut one haha and my thoughts on Guild Wars: when i played guild wars, it seemed to be a very sloppy game. the way drops looked, the areas, just the overall feeling of the game reminded me of old crappy games and i had no interest in playing past level 5. its cool that you find enjoyment out of it, but not everyone can handle a game like that. its also a poor substitute for PSU as it is a point and click game. personally i HATE point and click games. id say guild wars is the perfect substitue for WoW players who dont want to pay to play. also about ffxi, id say level sync was introduced to allow a player to find a party no matter what level and who else was looking. level sync is the only reason i didnt quit ffxi once i hit lvl 40. i was playing before it was there, leaving a party because you leveled up was hella lame

I love how you didn't give the game a chance...Level 5? You can reach level 5 in 30 minutes pretty easily, of course you can pass judgement.

As for point and click...Try doing that in PvP or late PvE and you will find it too slow. It is better to use WASD and Target Controls and then the numbers 1 - 8 to target the enemies with skills. I know this from experience on winning a guild based pvp tournament and ranking 1st in the CvC tournament last month. The game can be played entirely in First Person or Third Person which is cool. Only Newbs rely too much on the point and click aspect instead of learning how to actually target with the keyboard.

I'll tell you what. ^_^

You seem to have paid for Guild Wars, which means you have an account and while we are waiting for updates on PSU...I can take you through the whole game.

The installer on the site will download the entire game....You can add Shira Rae and I'll take you through the entire game and teach you how to play....Its an invitation...Just to play something different and freshen up while PSU gets updated.

Its easy to supply the email address you use and get a password to play again. ^_^

I will meet you halfway and say the first areas in Guild Wars are boring as a fuck...but the level 20 areas when the real game starts are a godsend. ^^

[Danny_Dark]

Yes, your are one of the very few left on Ps2 lol:-D

I'm Still There On PS2,...But...

[SuperRygar]

I love how you didn't give the game a chance...Level 5? You can reach level 5 in 30 minutes pretty easily, of course you can pass judgement.

As for point and click...Try doing that in PvP or late PvE and you will find it too slow. It is better to use WASD and Target Controls and then the numbers 1 - 8 to target the enemies with skills. I know this from experience on winning a guild based pvp tournament and ranking 1st in the CvC tournament last month. The game can be played entirely in First Person or Third Person which is cool. Only Newbs rely too much on the point and click aspect instead of learning how to actually target with the keyboard.

I'll tell you what. ^_^

You seem to have paid for Guild Wars, which means you have an account and while we are waiting for updates on PSU...I can take you through the whole game.

The installer on the site will download the entire game....You can add Shira Rae and I'll take you through the entire game and teach you how to play....Its an invitation...Just to play something different and freshen up while PSU gets updated.

Its easy to supply the email address you use and get a password to play again. ^_^

I will meet you halfway and say the first areas in Guild Wars are boring as a fuck...but the level 20 areas when the real game starts are a godsend. ^^

hmmmmmmmmm, that's an interesting proposition. well i didnt actually pay for Guild Wars, i just downloaded it. i may have gotten to lvl 10 :P but i didnt get much farther then the area beyond the low lvl mobs around town and yes i did pass evil judgement upon the game. i did enjoy the flying aspect though and yeah i just did point and click. do you think we would get to lvl 20 in one night? like 2-4 hours? right now i went back to ffxi after "quitting" in september. my friend bugged me to go back on and play with her but she's rarely on, and bahumut server took a nosedive after they closed the registration doors. OMG, you know what im just realizing...i didnt play guild wars :o i played that perfect world international xD hahaha my bad! so i guess now i have to give it a try, after talking so much trash about it :P il look into getting it and il PM you

[Keilyn]

If you buy guild wars...Buy Guild Wars Trilogy. It brings all of Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall...Some places you can buy for $40, some for $50. Once you register the game and all, you can play the game without paying a subscription fee. The in-game counter states I started playing 55 months ago....if I was charged to play as much as WoW...I would have paid $825 in fees by now.

Guild Wars is a skill based game. The game has PvP and PvE both completely separate. Where in PSU you have characters who look completely different due to costumes, but play the exact same due to the PAs...in Guild Wars each profession has around 100 - 150 skills so two of the same characters can play completely differently.

One reason I like this game being free is because its more of a thinking game. You can Solo the whole game or go into a party (unless you want PvP, you will need a full player party) and due to this game being Free and like PSU in the sense that its just you and your party existing in the maps you play and no one else......the lack of fees allows me to pay to play PSU....Due to this I always have a second game to play that I can always fall back to and this game isn't no slouch either.

A friend joined me in this game from PSU and we go back and forth while we wait for updates. The variety is there...and since both games are similar in how they are instanced and non-persistent....

...If we want to take a free mission and bash things in without worrying about anything else to be simple, we play PSU. If we want more than just simple bashing and more culture, story and character we go into Guild Wars. When we get tired of one game, since the methodologies are Alternate Opposites (not polar opposites) we end up going back and forth a lot and it works very well. ^_^