Advanced/end game questions

[THOTH]

Few questions, thanks for any one willing to take the time to answer any of these.


1. Will the game offer sufficent challenge any where for a level 200 character without the addition of any download missions (such as playing multiplayer solo)

2. Is there a way to play multiplayer mode played solo without the reduction of resolution and or frame rate like what went on in PSP1?

3. What exactly is involved to grind a weapon beyond max, what are some special effects you've seen happen to a weapon?

4. I saw there was an elysion double sword... is there a single saber version, and how are these weapons compared to other high-end weapons?

5. What are all of the level 30 abilities of each class?

6. How useful is the evasion stat later on?

7. Does any one know the drop system yet and what each class offers?

8. Do we know the exact stat modifiers of the classes now? Can we tell for an example how much more ATP a ranger would have over a force?

9. What effects the quality of charge shots? The weapon itself or the bullet max of your particular class?

10. Are there any race specific equipment?

11. How useful is accuracy on non-ranger weapons? Is it like PSP where accuracy on melee had very little effect, or is there a larger impact?

12. After playing for a while, what is your class/race/gender and how do you feel about your selection?

If I think of any more I'll add them...thanks for answering these, it will help other people on the board as well I'm sure!

[Ceresa]

1. Only if you play the multi mode missions solo, which is rather difficult since you can't return to city, single player mode is trivial.

2. no

3. Extend code from challenge missions, most C~A items get brought up to average S rank stats, but a few special S ranks become far and away the best items.

4. There is a single, Elysion and Elysions are unique among trade items as they can come with up to 50% instead of 30% like the rest of the trade fodder. Their stats are reasonably close to the highest, seeing as they are 13 star weapons. Absurdly easy to get, no reason for hunters not to have these as a baseline uber weapon. Unless you can't clear hard story, in which case, get better.

5. Skillsave, Bulletsave, Techsave, Professional, Rare item boost (shared) 10% pp reduction for 2 slots on the useless saves, professional supposedly reduces the attack speed loss when you hit something.

6. Don't know, should use tenora armor anyways and just dodge the techs, only slightly lower dfp then youmei and the best evasion.

7. The only drop differences between classes are what monsters drop which manufacturer weapons. Actual rares don't change.

8. Yes. http://spoiler.sakura.ne.jp/srv/psp2/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E3% 82%B9

9. Charge shots are weapon and stat dependent, bullet PAs modify the normal shots.

10. Yes.

11. It's now possible to get your accuracy to nearly a 100% hit rate instead of softcapping at a 90% hit rate at a low ATA value in PSU/PSP. The hitbox for 100% accuracy from hitting a monster from behind is much lower, and it's much more apparent when your ATA isn't good enough.

12. Cast F hunter 200, the undisputed #1 motherfucker type of this game. Newman Fforce 70...ahahah what the fuck happened here, so overpowered in Zero and now this shit...

[RemiusTA]

Forces can output some serious numbers, but FACK they drop quick on this game.

Newman Force is like playing the game on perma-hard mode.

[Ceresa]

What serious numbers? Hunters outdamage force in every single situation possible.

[RemiusTA]

I have a force and hunter the same level, my hunter cant put up numbers anywhere close to forces. Of course, this is in the instance you are working towards chains. With a chain over 5 my force outdamages my hunters, but its really hard to do.

[Ceresa]

And using which PAs?

[RemiusTA]

Does this matter? I use the PA's that are most qualified for the situation.

Granted my characters are not nearly your level. It shouldnt matter though, unless for some reason the balance is just taken off completely.

[THOTH]

Freaky comments on classes and stats:

Beast Force ends up with about 50 TP less then a human force...which is basically nothing. Humans have almost 100 less ATP as a force.

Beasts supposedly have the best evp in the game... Newman bravers end up with more EVP then beast bravers?

Newman hunter compared to beast braver: The newman has almost the same HP, alot more PPish, about 20 less ATP, alot more defense, about the same ATA, 200 points less evade, like 220 less TP, and 40ish more MST.... weird.

I've seen complaints about beast bravers having horrible gun damage due to low accuracy on these boards... that means the newman's ATA as a hunter isn't really useful. Likewise, their TP...is wicked low as this class. Their ATP surprised me, but yeah...I guess they reclaim "Worst class" status in my eyes.

Man hunters are really dumb TP wise, like not even the newman can make their techs really useful.

Hrrrrrrrrrrmmmm.....there's actually a bigger gender difference now too in stats it seems at high levels...

[Allison_W]

Hrrrrrrrrrrmmmm.....there's actually a bigger gender difference now too in stats it seems at high levels...

the fuck this is like seriously going bassackwards

[xBladeM6x]

Freaky comments on classes and stats:

Beast Force ends up with about 50 TP less then a human force...which is basically nothing. Humans have almost 100 less ATP as a force.


Stats matter much more in this game. So yes, 50 TP is a big deal. Also, Forces in this game rape face. Use a Wand+Range Mag, and you can dominate everything.

Play a class smart and use chains a lot, and pretty much everything in this game is balanced.

[THOTH]

Allison I know... now you can make statements like "A male beast force does roughly the same melee damage as a female human braver but not quite as much as a male human braver"

Annoying.

Yeah I'm sure 50 TP does make a difference...but the fact that beasts are even in the same ball park as humans when it comes to techning is kinda mind boggling.

Apparently some earlier information released is wrong. Casts have the highest HP at the end, newmans have the highest evasion at the end... a male newman braver will be the most evasive character in the game for an example.

****By the way thanks for answering all those questions!!!!*****

[Ceresa]

Does this matter? I use the PA's that are most qualified for the situation.

Granted my characters are not nearly your level. It shouldnt matter though, unless for some reason the balance is just taken off completely.

It matters a lot if your idea of what PA is qualified is wrong.

Since the very beginning of the demo, Hunters damage has embarrassed Force, there's no shift in balance, it's the heart of the game mechanics. Skills have similar modifiers as gi-techs, hit more often and cost less PP. And they don't lose their entire elemental advantage because there's no gigrants or gimegid.


Stats matter much more in this game. So yes, 50 TP is a big deal. Also, Forces in this game rape face. Use a Wand+Range Mag, and you can dominate everything.

Play a class smart and use chains a lot, and pretty much everything in this game is balanced.

This isn't PSP1. Shadoogs won't hit anything for a force at high levels, and when they do, they hit for ass damage since shadoog damage is primarily ATA. Doing less damage with wand vs rod just means you spend more time waiting on pp regen too...

[THOTH]

It's surprising they completely turned the stat system upside down from PSP1...at first glance they seem so similar, but they really thought this one out.

Shadoogs were over powered...I've heard they are TP based here sometimes, other times ATA based...I hope ATA because that would really balance them out (and make them more of a braver weapon, ultimately)

Upon further inspection, males got pretty shafted. The stat differences between the genders are roughly the same (like 30ish between male and female counterpart) that's all fine and dandy until you get to ATA, where a single point of ATA has way more value then a single point of ATP.

There was some deliberate changes that don't follow the rest of the gender logic... male newmans have the same ATA as female humans....hrmph. ANNNND male newmans have LESS PP recovery then female humans....


Well congratulations stat freaks, you got more planning to do if your up for it.

**edit in*** alright folks, can any one tell me why someone should play as a male newman braver over a female human one?

What BRmarl has over BRnewm:
Like... 60 HP, 50 ATP, 30 DEF, 50ish MST

BRmarl has the EXACT same accuracy.

BRAnewm has
About 100 evade, and only 20 more TP.

Ugh. UGH ugh.

[Volcompat321]

I'm agreeing with Ceresa here.
There's NO WAY a force can out damage a Hunter.
I made a Cast Hunter(f/190ish)) and a Newman Force(f/70ish) and throughout the entire play through with both characters, the games been ssooooo much easier with my Hunter.

Hunters by far out damage Forces. Period.

[THOTH]

Volcompact, how's your damage with guns on your cast hunter? Do you use any or just melee?

[evange]

Stats matter much more in this game. So yes, 50 TP is a big deal. Also, Forces in this game rape face. Use a Wand+Range Mag, and you can dominate everything.

Play a class smart and use chains a lot, and pretty much everything in this game is balanced.

no 50 tp doesn't matter.
hell 400 extra ATP only increase your damage by 100.

[Tycho]

Yeah, HU outdamages FO (for whatever it's worth in team play with separation of labour). From playing with other Newearls of my level, I noticed they were having a lot of trouble doing similar damage using FO while I was playing HU. Newearl was supposed to be most inclined toward FO too. >_>

[THOTH]

Is teching not even worth while in this game?

[Ceresa]

How could it be?

-In the first place you don't even get appropriate elemental techs for all situations.
-The enemies that are tech resistant, drop the techer stuff! The enemies that are striking resistant, drop crap. Forces can't even farm their own uberweapons (Pwand/Gravideon) conveniently.
-The only single target damage is diga(blowaway, so only good for large enemy) and foie(burn sucks ass now too) and Nosdiga (70 pp for ass damage, and it launches...) 2/3 of the time you can't even get a damn element boost on single targets.
-The worst PP efficiency, hope you like walking around doing nothing.
-No blocking unless you use wand+shield, which gimps your damage and makes your PP efficiency even worse. Guess what substituting dodge roll for Just guard does!
-When everyone else can run missions without running out of mates(dirt ass cheap mates at that), resta starts looking really crappy, and of course mates on a force heal for the least due to lowest hp max.
-No more body unit restrictions means immunity to every status that could make one unable to cure themselves, who cares for techer curing them.
-There's no quick unit, at best you can highspeed a few elements at a time for 2! ability points each, too bad rareitemboost (the reason you're playing this genre...right?) is 4, not a whole lot of room for much else!
-Techs build chains the slowest on bosses, by far, they also build chains on single targets the slowest. The only saving grace is building chains on groups that spawn and stay close together initially, which is the minority of encounters.
-Can't do any damage when you're running for your life because you have no hp/defense.
-Oh and bows sucks compared to rifles.

But I don't want to discourage any aspiring techers, so that'll suffice...

[THOTH]

Errrrrr.....right.

Well I'm planning on being a FObeast with a focus on melee so I guess that's okay. They really gimped hunters TP, otherwise I'd just be a HUnewearl.

My concern though is a newman braver with techs/guns...any thoughts on that? Or end game FObeast for that matter?

[RemiusTA]

It matters a lot if your idea of what PA is qualified is wrong.

Since the very beginning of the demo, Hunters damage has embarrassed Force, there's no shift in balance, it's the heart of the game mechanics. Skills have similar modifiers as gi-techs, hit more often and cost less PP. And they don't lose their entire elemental advantage because there's no gigrants or gimegid.

Sorry, thats bullshit. My hunter on the demo, regardless of equipment, could never dish out as much damage as my Force could. My force was doing upwards of 250-300 damage PER HIT given a chain not too far past 2 or 3. Anywhere over that and whatever you were nuking was pretty much guaranteed dead after you finished. On the spider boss, with a friend playing ranger, if the chain got anywhere near like 8, i was doing anywhere from 600-700 damage per Diga, and im able to get 3 or MAYBE even 4 out before it ends. Maybe your force just sucked/s.


-In the first place you don't even get appropriate elemental techs for all situations.Got me there, although it rarely matters -- if you really need to, just substitute. The only enemies your really screwed with are Earth, since Razonde is so fucking slow. Same goes with rabarta, although a jolt from either one almost always immobilizes, and it even does it to larger enemies.

-The enemies that are tech resistant, drop the techer stuff! The enemies that are striking resistant, drop crap. Forces can't even farm their own uberweapons (Pwand/Gravideon) conveniently.tech resistant? Chain them then tech them. Either that or just whip out a doublesaber / Twin Saber and PA spam the bastards like hunters do.

-The only single target damage is diga(blowaway, so only good for large enemy) and foie(burn sucks ass now too) and Nosdiga (70 pp for ass damage, and it launches...) 2/3 of the time you can't even get a damn element boost on single targets.Dont know what the last part means, but like i said before, substutite if you have to. I only use same-element when its necessary -- im not afraid to use Rafoie on a group of earth enemies.

And no single target damage? Unless the enemy is Light, Damgrants does amazing damage to single targets and whatever else you can hit.

-The worst PP efficiency, hope you like walking around doing nothing.Yeah, once again, if you suck ass at teching.

-No blocking unless you use wand+shield, which gimps your damage and makes your PP efficiency even worse. Guess what substituting dodge roll for Just guard does!Yeah i dont know why they didn't let techers block, its pretty annoying. Shield and Wand happen to be the only real way to kill some enemies, but sometimes its more damage efficient in the first place because its far faster than using a rod. Once again, when its necessary.

-When everyone else can run missions without running out of mates(dirt ass cheap mates at that), resta starts looking really crappy, and of course mates on a force heal for the least due to lowest hp max.Resta is a pain to use, but once you get into the habit of doing so you shouldn't run out of mates. Mates on a force should only be used when your in too much danger to move and use resta.

-No more body unit restrictions means immunity to every status that could make one unable to cure themselves, who cares for techer curing them.Well thats great, maybe on this game people will stop bitching when they get killed.

-There's no quick unit, at best you can highspeed a few elements at a time for 2! ability points each, too bad rareitemboost (the reason you're playing this genre...right?) is 4, not a whole lot of room for much else!Im not complaining.

-Techs build chains the slowest on bosses, by far, they also build chains on single targets the slowest. The only saving grace is building chains on groups that spawn and stay close together initially, which is the minority of encounters.Only a dipshit force will try to use technics to chain a boss when it obviously isnt working -- switch weapons. Also, Wand + Ra technic for chaining works pretty damn well, and quick as it will never miss as long as you dont. With added range from leveling the technic it gets alot easier -- the only issue to argue is PP. But yeah they dont get chains nearly as high as hunters.
-Can't do any damage when you're running for your life because you have no hp/defense.Self explanatory. Everybody knew this.

-Oh and bows sucks compared to rifles.This is no surprise to anyone either.


Im going to continue to play this game until endgame, but at this point im going to stand by the "you just suck at this" defense, especially because of that "since the demo" comment. These attacks at the class are easy to setup when you suck. If you want to go by the numbers this is all fine and dandy, but really the only flaw i see in technics are the fact the people using them die too fucking quick.


I'm agreeing with Ceresa here.
There's NO WAY a force can out damage a Hunter.
I made a Cast Hunter(f/190ish)) and a Newman Force(f/70ish) and throughout the entire play through with both characters, the games been ssooooo much easier with my Hunter.

Hunters by far out damage Forces. Period.Wow this is one horrible correlation. FIRST OFF, Hunter 190-ish vs Force 70-ish and your comparing damage? What the fuck.

Second, easier =/= outdamage. Yeah, the game is far easier on my hunter too, but thats only because i dont have to roll for my life when an enemy attacks me. When not getting hit isnt a factor, my force will clear rooms multiple times quicker than my hunter.

This isn't PSP1. Shadoogs won't hit anything for a force at high levels, and when they do, they hit for ass damage since shadoog damage is primarily ATA. Doing less damage with wand vs rod just means you spend more time waiting on pp regen too...Has nothing to do with the damage. It simply helps alot with the chaining. At least, when I use them anyway.

[Ceresa]

Oh, did you just write all that to say I suck? Guess I'll do the same.

Didn't you post in screenshot thread that Yuto gave you a hard time? I beat him with my force in 30 seconds at 16ish, but I suck at teching eh? If you suck to the point that Yuto gave you any grief as a force, then I can only imagine how bad you are at hunter if you can't outdamage such trash play as a force.

Incidentally, my hunter in the demo was hitting 300-400 per hit on low chains, 700-800 when gravitybreaking bears off a chain 2, guess your hunter just sucked.

Using resta instead of mates, the fuck? Suggesting that a Force can run out of mates is something only the mind of a scrub could conceive. I've never ran out of mates, even on a Force soloing lvl 110 stuff at 70. Enjoy wasting PP on resta. Damgrants burns PP like crazy for it's damage too, guess you only run missions with really long hallways between spawns. Chains don't magically fix tech damage on resistant enemies, nor is it anywhere near the ballpark of a fucking solution when chain damage is the normal standard of play. Switching to a hunter weapon as force is inferior to a hunter switching to guns on the handful of striking resistant enemies (most of which spawn in missions no one gives a shit about anyways).

Not a single character my level? Not a single char even to 70? And trying to claim techs are all that? That's pathetic. Even if you've seen every area in this game, C and B doesn't even count, my force has been raping that garbage in 2-3 techs unchained, no shit you never run out of PP and seem strong when you never fight anything past the newbie levels.
"When not getting hit isn't a factor" indeed, what a load of bullshit. Getting hit is always a factor.

I just suck at force eh, go fuck yourself.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

/facepalm

[Enshroud]

Yeah A rank missions is when it gets difficult, by a far measure. Nothing to be proud of for C and B rank.

[RemiusTA]

Oh, did you just write all that to say I suck? Guess I'll do the same.

Didn't you post in screenshot thread that Yuto gave you a hard time? I beat him with my force in 30 seconds at 16ish, but I suck at teching eh? If you suck to the point that Yuto gave you any grief as a force, then I can only imagine how bad you are at hunter if you can't outdamage such trash play as a force.

Incidentally, my hunter in the demo was hitting 300-400 per hit on low chains, 700-800 when gravitybreaking bears off a chain 2, guess your hunter just sucked.

Using resta instead of mates, the fuck? Suggesting that a Force can run out of mates is something only the mind of a scrub could conceive. I've never ran out of mates, even on a Force soloing lvl 110 stuff at 70. Enjoy wasting PP on resta. Damgrants burns PP like crazy for it's damage too, guess you only run missions with really long hallways between spawns. Chains don't magically fix tech damage on resistant enemies, nor is it anywhere near the ballpark of a fucking solution when chain damage is the normal standard of play. Switching to a hunter weapon as force is inferior to a hunter switching to guns on the handful of striking resistant enemies (most of which spawn in missions no one gives a shit about anyways).

Not a single character my level? Not a single char even to 70? And trying to claim techs are all that? That's pathetic. Even if you've seen every area in this game, C and B doesn't even count, my force has been raping that garbage in 2-3 techs unchained, no shit you never run out of PP and seem strong when you never fight anything past the newbie levels.
"When not getting hit isn't a factor" indeed, what a load of bullshit. Getting hit is always a factor.

I just suck at force eh, go fuck yourself.

O FCK DOOD i checked ur post i c wat u rote u sck i killed yuto so quick dude in 30 seconds flat i clocked it with my l33t watch that calculates DPS only real tru pro SOLO ELITISTS got them not nubs o you also ran out of mates i see only a FUCKING SCRUB runs out of mates im lv 312 and dont run out of mates either ever because i never get hit im so fucking good i SOLO with my force and never get hit resta sucks damgrants sucks you stupid newbie i rape enemies with UNCHAINED TECHNICS IM SO LEET FACK your just a newbie you havent played this nearly as long as me so you know absolutely nothing its way different up here you scrub its 120% differnt u dont know PAs u dont know technics u dont know nething n hey, stoopid nub, USING ANYTHING OTHER THAN FORCE WEAPONS IS NOOB YOU SUCK ITS INFERIOR YOU LOSE 30.43 DAMAGE PER SECOND IN FACT i know this cuz im pro you just suck fuck yourself FUCK MY DICK IS HARD

[Silver_Wyrm]

the overwhelming love in this thread has begun to suffocate me in its loveable pink fluffyness.

Can it be taken to pm's now? :(

[Enshroud]

Sad how internet arguments end with nonsense, but that's how it is. Srs bsns.

[RemiusTA]

Oh im quite finished now. After i read the caption under his username i knew this was doomed from the jump. Wish i saw it sooner.

Dont worry Ceresa, I wont DARE try to challenge your superior knowledge of the SUPER COMPLEX difficulty of A/S rank missions, and I wont FATHOM trying to say technics dont completely suck; Your completely right 100% of the time, and my Pre-Lv70 characters on this HIGHLY COMPLEX videogame cannot begin to speak of the extraordinary perils that await me a mere 10 hours of gametime away. You calculating genius, you.

[Enshroud]

Oh im quite finished now. After i read the caption under his username i knew this was doomed from the jump. Wish i saw it sooner.

Dont worry Ceresa, I wont DARE try to challenge your superior knowledge of the SUPER COMPLEX difficulty of A/S rank missions, and I wont FATHOM trying to say technics dont completely suck; Your completely right 100% of the time, and my Pre-Lv70 characters on this HIGHLY COMPLEX videogame cannot begin to speak of the extraordinary perils that await me a mere 10 hours of gametime away. You calculating genius, you.

Well, of course Ceresa is more right than you are if you haven't tried A/S rank missions. Just saying :D

[THOTH]

You guys are really mean spirited...stop it please...

Regardless of how useful techs are or are not when used soley... how are techs when used periodically? Again, I want to make a FObeast and or a BRAnewm (techs+guns)... how would these classes work out end game based on what you see for how techs work?

And it was never answered... but how is evasion in PSP2? Is it as useful as it was in PS0? Because if so I'm totally going BRAnewm in a heart beat.

And finally...how are BRAmar's with guns? Acceptable damage?

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Oh im quite finished now. After i read the caption under his username i knew this was doomed from the jump. Wish i saw it sooner.
As opposed to The Frigging Awesome, yeah.

[Tyreek]

And it was never answered... but how is evasion in PSP2? Is it as useful as it was in PS0? Because if so I'm totally going BRAnewm in a heart beat.

And finally...how are BRAmar's with guns? Acceptable damage?

Well, as someone who beat the game as a Newman Braver, I can say the evasion is sorta moderate. There are a quite a few instances where I had recieved 0 damage from enemies. Its not definite, but it helped. Though I think anyone who is a Newman Braver doing A-S rank missions could tell you better. I couldn't tell you about guns, I mostly used bows for my character on occasion.

[Volcompat321]

Volcompact, how's your damage with guns on your cast hunter? Do you use any or just melee?

I've used guns, as a Ranger. Damage was way more than a force still, but less than my Hunter.


Wow this is one horrible correlation. FIRST OFF, Hunter 190-ish vs Force 70-ish and your comparing damage? What the fuck.

Second, easier =/= outdamage. Yeah, the game is far easier on my hunter too, but thats only because i dont have to roll for my life when an enemy attacks me. When not getting hit isnt a factor, my force will clear rooms multiple times quicker than my hunter.
Has nothing to do with the damage. It simply helps alot with the chaining. At least, when I use them anyway.
You obviously didn't get what I wrote.
You focused on the wrong thing.
"Throughout the game, it was easier with my Hunter".
Not "Compared to my level 190ish Hunter, my level 70ish force is shit".
I was saying, literally what I wrote. The game was easier with my Hunter.
For one, you don't have to have PP to attack, with a Fo using technics, you have to have PP.
Also, good luck getting a chain of 100+ with Techs. It wont happen, no matter what you do.
Period.
Which means, Hu outdamages Fo.
Ceresa schooled you enough, boy, so I'm done.

As opposed to The Frigging Awesome, yeah.

:p

[RemiusTA]

As opposed to The Frigging Awesome, yeah.What you would call sarcasm. You see how i dont, however, go around telling people how utterly bad their class sucks like i know everything. The fact that he apparently thinks he DOES know everything is the only reason im arguing right now.




You obviously didn't get what I wrote.
You focused on the wrong thing.
"Throughout the game, it was easier with my Hunter".
Not "Compared to my level 190ish Hunter, my level 70ish force is shit".
I was saying, literally what I wrote. The game was easier with my Hunter.
For one, you don't have to have PP to attack, with a Fo using technics, you have to have PP. Also, good luck getting a chain of 100+ with Techs. It wont happen, no matter what you do.
Period.
Which means, Hu outdamages Fo.

Well I misinterpreted the first part, but my point still stands -- that is a bad correlation. As i pointed out farther up, if you have a need to get a chain up, you simply switch to a quicker melee weapon and switch back to finish it off -- VERY similar to how you would switch to a dagger to get a high chain on an enemy, then switch back to a Sword to finish it with Gravity Break or something. Doing that also prevents you from running out of PP, and should not put a crippling damper on your damage like Sir Ceresa up there so implies. Afterall, your doing it because its a quicker/safer/PP conservative way to deal damage. I have absolutely no clue how/why you think a 100+ chain is needed to defeat an enemy anyway, and even if it was, doing it with technics is a good way for it to never happen.

And i already told you, yeah, the game IS far easier to beat as a Hunter than a Force. But seeing as i dont have a level 70 character I guess this shouldn't be taken to heart, right?


Ceresa schooled you enough, boy, so I'm done.Heh, glad you think so. If by chance he would reply and bitch about my character levels some more i'd thoroughly enjoy it. Ive already gotten my laugh out of it though so i really dont care.


Well, of course Ceresa is more right than you are if you haven't tried A/S rank missions. Just saying :grin:Yeah, i can see why you say that. But you see, this game is not Devil May Cry. The enemies and bosses dont go Super Sayian 5, shoot energy beams and do fatalities on me in A/S rank missions. I am very aware the difficulty increases. They'll move faster, likely ignore some attacks, and KO you in single hits. Maybe throw a different projectile, i dont know. Its nothing we all havent seen already.

[THOTH]

Treek I believe that newman's don't have the highest evasion until way later on in levels... beasts start out with higher, and over time newman's start to gradually equalize. Beasts have almost the same evasion end game as newmans...

[Volcompat321]

[SPOILER-BOX]Well I misinterpreted the first part, but my point still stands -- that is a bad correlation. As i pointed out farther up, if you have a need to get a chain up, you simply switch to a quicker melee weapon and switch back to finish it off -- VERY similar to how you would switch to a dagger to get a high chain on an enemy, then switch back to a Sword to finish it with Gravity Break or something. Doing that also prevents you from running out of PP, and should not put a crippling damper on your damage like Sir Ceresa up there so implies. Afterall, your doing it because its a quicker/safer/PP conservative way to deal damage. I have absolutely no clue how/why you think a 100+ chain is needed to defeat an enemy anyway, and even if it was, doing it with technics is a good way for it to never happen.

And i already told you, yeah, the game IS far easier to beat as a Hunter than a Force. But seeing as i dont have a level 70 character I guess this shouldn't be taken to heart, right?

Heh, glad you think so. If by chance he would reply and bitch about my character levels some more i'd thoroughly enjoy it. Ive already gotten my laugh out of it though so i really dont care.

Yeah, i can see why you say that. But you see, this game is not Devil May Cry. The enemies and bosses dont go Super Sayian 5, shoot energy beams and do fatalities on me in A/S rank missions. I am very aware the difficulty increases. They'll move faster, likely ignore some attacks, and KO you in single hits. Maybe throw a different projectile, i dont know. Its nothing we all havent seen already.[/SPOILER-BOX]


Honestly, I don't know why you're defending Forces so much.
I am disappointed in them in this game.
It's not like I didn't put my time in, seeing how I have a (now) level 100 Force, and I still say the Hu out damages.

Now, with the 100+ chain, I didn't mean on a regular enemy, I meant on a boss, of course. I thought that was implied, since you know, most things die WAY before you can even get to 40.

I would say a Ra or Hu can easily out damage a force, and most of my techs are at or above 25. (thanks to finding them with my Hu)

So, why are you defending Fo so much?
I'm pretty sure it's a FACT that Hu out damages Fo in the long run.
Maybe it's not Ceresa sucking at Force, maybe it's you sucking at Hunter.

BTW, I think Ceresa is a girl, though I could definitely be wrong there.

[pso123hrf]

Are forces really that bad? :(

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Are forces really that bad? :(
Does it matter? :)

[RemiusTA]

Honestly, I don't know why you're defending Forces so much.
I am disappointed in them in this game.
It's not like I didn't put my time in, seeing how I have a (now) level 100 Force, and I still say the Hu out damages.

Now, with the 100+ chain, I didn't mean on a regular enemy, I meant on a boss, of course. I thought that was implied, since you know, most things die WAY before you can even get to 40.

I would say a Ra or Hu can easily out damage a force, and most of my techs are at or above 25. (thanks to finding them with my Hu)

So, why are you defending Fo so much?
I think it's a FACT that Hu out damages Fo in the long run.
Maybe it's not Ceresa sucking at Force, maybe it's you sucking at Hunter.

BTW, I think Ceresa is a girl, though I could definitely be wrong there.

Well first off, im really not defending the class for any other reason but him saying its completely useless in a thread like this. That pisses me off. I could care less how much you think they suck, but you shouldn't turn people away from it when they ask like that, you should let them choose for themselves. Biggest reason though, is while he tries his hardest to make it sound otherwise, most of the shit he was saying was opinionated. Not like what im saying isnt, but i make it a good point not to talk in absolutes.

And I have a hunter, i already told you. I know how damn powerful they get. I know how powerfulBroken they were in most of the PSOs, i know how strong Broken they were in PSU. And i ALSO know we aren't even factoring RANGERS broken shit in, either. I didn't enjoy Force that much when i first picked up PSP2, but as i kept at it, its a pretty decent class. The main reason its so frowned upon is because in order to be decent with it, you a) have to be good at it, and b) have to have variables that line up with you to do any exceptional good. Hunters? They get boring to me, and fairly quickly. I play them to beat the game and unlock stuff quicker -- thats all.

When it comes to Forces vs Hunters in damage, i can drop a monster with my force just as quick as i can with my hunter, when it comes to damage. How quickly it can be done, however, is different, and is where most of the variables pop up, and also is where the line is drawn between hunter and force, because hunters simply dont have to worry about them.

[pso123hrf]

Does it matter? :)

Well I guess not, but knowing that I won't do at least equal damage or slightly less than a hunter or ranger kinda upsets me. Can one at least hold their own like in PSP1?

[DreXxiN]

Just thought I'd throw this out there; maybe you can make a force efficient in the same way you would on PSO, for any players.

I can nuke most things that would be weak to techs, then swap to my pow mag and Excal/Charge Vulcs and take out the non-melee resistant ones with ease too. Of course this only applied on BB with the tech boosts, but I can match or beat most Ranger ep1 times, and (obviously) dominate in ep4 (not 2 though..Damn Hell special!)

What if you made a melee-efficient FO that could nuke all the tech weaknesses (but not gimped techs too much in sacrifice to the melee damage, in the way that a FOnewm could still do a great job melee), and where non-applicable, you'll still be strong enough to kill the tech resistant things with melee attacks? I'm not sure if this is possible on PSP2 as I've only played the demo..

Although my characters are a Human Ranger (most gimped demo class) and a Beast Hunter (most overpowered demo class, with ATA not mattering at this point), and I really, [i]really[/] hope that forces in PSP2 aren't as gimp as my Human Ranger felt..(in multi-mode anyway, solo everything was stupidly easy anyway.)

[Volcompat321]

You're awfully opinionated yourself.
It's already a FACT that hunters out damage force, and for some reason, I remember reading what you said as "force out damages hunter".
You even said so yourself, in this last post, but in different words.
Argument over.

If people want to ask questions, it takes a whole 5-20 minutes to make a character.
I'm sure when people ask about classes, they want others opinions, and some facts.
You were feeding them bullshit by saying force out damage hunter.
Now, don't get me wrong, I do like my force, and I have lots of fun, but as you said, a hunter is used to beat stuff quick(which also brings truth to the fact, they out damage force).

Thank you.
I also want you to know, I'm not trying to be rude in anyway, even though it may seem like it.
I come off a little bit asshole-ish sometimes.

Can one at least hold their own like in PSP1?

Once you get used to using the class, it's not all that hard, or bad.
You definitely need to have a melee wep at all times, whether it be a dagger(s), or whip, or even spear like I do.

[Ceresa]

Nothing I said is opinion, that's how techs work. That's their position in the food chain. Too bad.

If someone really wants to play Force, and make the best force they can, they'll do it regardless of how much it sucks. If some indecisive person is turned away, it's not my problem. Not particularly interested in blowing sunshine and bullshit up people's ass to get more people to try the class.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Ceresa's main in the other 2 games is Force, you think he'd be opinionated towards rather than against if that were the case...

[Volcompat321]

Ceresa's main in the other 2 games is Force, you think he'd be opinionated towards rather than against if that were the case...

One would think.

[THOTH]

Are the level 30 stat techs (like shifta/deband/zalure/jellen) worth while in this game at least?

[Ceresa]

Shifta and Deband are, don't know about the debuffs. Or rather at 21 they're worth it, there's no change for 22-30.

[RemiusTA]

If people want to ask questions, it takes a whole 5-20 minutes to make a character.
I'm sure when people ask about classes, they want others opinions, and some facts.
You were feeding them bullshit by saying force out damage hunter.
Now, don't get me wrong, I do like my force, and I have lots of fun, but as you said, a hunter is used to beat stuff quick(which also brings truth to the fact, they out damage force).

Thank you.
I also want you to know, I'm not trying to be rude in anyway, even though it may seem like it.
I come off a little bit asshole-ish sometimes.Well i was originaly referring to the size of the numbers themselves, but yeah i never said they clear rooms faster, or time attack faster. "CAN" outdamage is different from "ALWAYS".




Ceresa's main in the other 2 games is Force, you think he'd be opinionated towards rather than against if that were the case... OOOOOOOO. Mine were hunters. In ALL games aside from this one, actually.


Nothing I said is opinion, that's how techs work. That's their position in the food chain. Too bad.

If someone really wants to play Force, and make the best force they can, they'll do it regardless of how much it sucks. If some indecisive person is turned away, it's not my problem. Not particularly interested in blowing sunshine and bullshit up people's ass to get more people to try the class.

Well, neither more am I.

Forces suck people, you should all pick hunters and equip everything Ceresa does and maybe we'll all be L33T SOLO JESUS MASTERS like him some day and not "scrubs". Then we can all hop on vent and talk about which anime we like the most.

[Volcompat321]

Well i was originaly referring to the size of the numbers themselves, but yeah i never said they clear rooms faster, or time attack faster. "CAN" outdamage is different from "ALWAYS".



OOOOOOOO. Mine were hunters. In ALL games aside from this one, actually.




Well, neither more am I.

Forces suck people, you should all pick hunters and equip everything Ceresa does and maybe we'll all be L33T SOLO JESUS MASTERS like him some day and not "scrubs". Then we can all hop on vent and talk about which anime we like the most.

What does anime have to do with Ceresa, or elitism? :o
Now you're just confusing me.
Get over it.
I think Ceresa's title is for the JP PSU, not PS:P2.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

He's completely missing the point...

[RemiusTA]

No, you are. I dont really care, and i never did. Im only going on about this because i think Cersea is a penis. The anime statement, Volcompat, was OBVIOUSLY me calling him a geek. You and Lina seem pretty content on riding him (for reasons i have no idea, but thats how forums work.) Though i really have nothing against you two, so ill just shut up now.

Apparently you all are under the impression i dont know how this game functions or something? I know the gap between forces and hunters. Fuck, its the same difference on nearly ANY MMO you'll ever play -- magicians are a hard class to get right without being completely broken or completely useless. Even if they're done right people will bitch, which usually results in them getting a nice nerfhammer anyway. PSP2 happened to do a nice job of blurring that line from what they were in PSP1/PSU/PSO, but apparently its a sin here to mention anything of the sorts, because you get a bunch of Damage Per Second bullshit thrown around. Once again, i dont really give a shit, but due to the extremely casual mechanics of this game i find it absolutely hilarious there are people who adhere so strongly to making the best of them instead of just having fun.

And so now we're here. I play highly competitve games with mechanics that are actually worth discussing. Like BlazBlue, for instance. I'll play online and absolutely demolish a newb. But I wont, oh say go on a forum board and talk about how he should NEVER EVER use his "useless" low-tier character. Exposing the flaws, sure, but unless the character is absolutely HOPELESS (which the force class is absolutely not), im not going to say dickish shit like "what you think is cool sucks. thats where you stand on the foodchain". Call me overly optimistic if you like -- im just not a dick, and perhaps enjoy a challenge.

But I digress; i still dont care.

[Silver_Wyrm]

If you don't give a shit then stop making us all suffer this argument when some people just want to sort out the information from the flames! Seriously, if anyone's going to jump to personal attacks then do it at your target in pm's rather than clogging a perfectly good thread with legit questions.

Lets try make this thread civil again if we can, people may disagree but this is just silly.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Yeah Ceresa's a penis, so what?
You keep saying you don't care but you keep posting, which proves you do, QED.

[RemiusTA]

Well i dont know what QED means, but i just had to let you all know why. Im done.

[THOTH]

Well...I mean the personal attacks were pretty immature, but it was actually a useful and interesting discussion ignoring the venom spitting.

I feel a bit better about wanting to do a FObeast now, for an example knowing that melee on a force is bound to happen, so may as well do melee right. It probably discouraged alot of people... but I don't think any character should play as pure any thing... hunters can get away with it, but welcome to boring hack hack land.

[Tyreek]

Well, keep in mind, you're not restricted to what weapons you can use, so use a little piece of everything if need be.

[THOTH]

Let's give forces a bit of love...

30 stat boosting techs are useful...I'd presume the 30 debuffs bridge the damage gap a little bit for tech use. Either way, a force that uses all 4 stat techs will be doing very high DPS through the increase of damage they've triggered in their party members, and their own abilities.

Forces are therefore the "team player" class: because with 4 people buffed, and enemies being debuffed they'd basically pull their weight as long as their damage techs weren't completely suckage.....

Or am I totally wrong?

[Silver_Wyrm]

How are Bravers in latergame? I've been playing my human hunter but getting a little tired of just plowing around my melee weapons, I was tempted to make a beast braver but is ata an issue for them later on?

[THOTH]

Beast braver females are actually pretty decent...they end up with the same TP as human male bravers, their ATA will prevent melee from being an issue...guns...may be a problem on them, don't rely on them at all basically. You'll get freakishly high evasion (which, according to someone on this topic is moderately useful) too.

Male beast bravers...guns are even worse, teching even worse...higher ATP....even higher evasion/defense/hp.

IMO the best braver is female human...(you already have one...switch?) why I say that: They end up with the SAME ATA as a male newman, and a 20 point difference in TP. Meaning you can play the male newman's "gun techer" just fine...they have 10 points less pp, but better PP regain then male newmans. They can do this still virtually equally, and are about 100% better at surviving....and they can freaking use melee weapons without it being an exercise in suckage.

If you can't tell, I'm a little bummed about BRnewms (wanted to make one...hard to justify in BRmarl's shadow)

[Sorans]

And... I was about to post but I agree with what THOTH said ;) !

I'll just add my raw stats at level 200 (Br30 Female Human) :825 ATP and 908 TP. If I either change to Hunter or Force, I get a +200 boost in either ATP or TP.

[Silver_Wyrm]

well if I switch my human to braver...how best to catch it up in type level?

[Sorans]

Story missions or S-Rank Missions if you can.

[Volcompat321]

And... I was about to post but I agree with what THOTH said ;) !

I'll just add my raw stats at level 200 (Br30 Female Human) :825 ATP and 908 TP. If I either change to Hunter or Force, I get a +200 boost in either ATP or TP.

Yea, I'll post my Female Cast Hunter 200/30 stats when I wake up a bit more.
Ranger is also at 30, so I can post that too.

[THOTH]

Much appreciated that you guys are willing to post your stats...but we have all this info

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fspoiler.sakura.ne.jp%2Fsrv%2Fpsp2%2 Findex.php%3F%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2583%2586%25E3%2 583%25BC%25E3%2582%25BF%25E3%2582%25B9&sl=ja&tl=en


It takes a sec to figure out the best way to use that data, but you get good at crunching data pretty quick. That's where you get interesting information... like female beasts have the same TP as male humans... female humans have the same ATA as male newmans.... female casts have the highest PP recovery in the game and the same ATP as male humans....newman hunters are very similar to human bravers.....a whole world of comparing and contrasting awaits you.

Just bare in mind that stats flux... it takes a little bit of time before newmans truly become the best at evasion for an example compared to beasts. I'm guessing there's some quirky stat formulas at play.

Silver Wyrum: Before you switch to a braver, get a couple levels as a ranger so you get that second charge shot. Trust me :D

[THOTH]

Question...what's up with traps in this game? Can any one give me a low down? What are they, who can use what and how useful are they?

[THOTH]

Also... does any component of the new beast transformations rely on TP to calculate damage?

[Deragonite]

No clue about Beast damage formula but I'm going to guess it's ATP based.

Traps are great. They do quite a bit of damage, mass freeze/burn/poison/virus things, and give you easy chains.

[THOTH]

The new transformations I gather have special attacks like a whirl wind or lightning... I'd be SUPER SUPER happy if either are TP.

Traps sound really useful this time around.....hmmmmmmm...........

[Rayokarna]

The new transformations I gather have special attacks like a whirl wind or lightning... I'd be SUPER SUPER happy if either are TP.

Traps sound really useful this time around.....hmmmmmmm...........

As much as I'm aware of, Traps ignore the defence stat so they will do high damage regardless on what you use it on. I normally use it for enemies who have high powered attacks and mid bosses.

But to be fair, I've been less relient on them lately.

[Pillan]

The only traps I ever use anymore are EX traps, honestly. The extra damage builds up a chain on everything ridiculously fast in addition to burning or stunning them. Unfortunately, EX traps are limited to Ranger (burn) and Braver (both).

[THOTH]

On another site, someone was saying that ex traps+trap damage boost=boss killer. What do you think of that Pilan? Would that work?

[RemiusTA]

Traps murder enemies on this game. If you're fighting something too far over your level and you want it dead, you use traps.

[THOTH]

Someone posted a thing with all the new costumes... does any one know where that was?

[Pillan]

On another site, someone was saying that ex traps+trap damage boost=boss killer. What do you think of that Pilan? Would that work?

Higher trap damage, plus ignoring defense, plus having an instant chain 10+ on the boss really makes it a formidable combination. Instant boss killer? I'd say not. But a really good way to kill large mobs fast? Definitely.

[Ceresa]

Have you patched to 1.1 yet Pillan? Arika was saying ex traps no longer build chains.

[Pillan]

Nope. Haven't been online in weeks. (In Japan at the moment with no WiFi access.)

[Izuna]

I don't think extraps build chains anymore, there used to be a bug when you start a PA the extraps start doing heavy damage, like 2000+ per hit.

[RemiusTA]

Wow, they patch the internet multimode? What the fuck do they pay for AotI for then? Rollbacks?

[Pillan]

I heard they patched some glitch making EX traps no longer build damage from the chain, but I didn't know they got rid of the chain thing too. Still, free damage is free damage. They still take a good chunk of damage out of large mobs and bosses and give you instant burn/stun on everything else, so they're still worth using. It's like 8 extra SUVs.

[Ceresa]

Ah well Espio's translation interpreted it a bit wrong, understandable until you see the 1.1 nerf really. Rather then PA combo getting a buggy boost from ex traps, it's the combo of using a PA after the ex trap builds the chain that was too unbalanced.

[Rayokarna]

Ah well Espio's translation interpreted it a bit wrong, understandable until you see the 1.1 nerf really. Rather then PA combo getting a buggy boost from ex traps, it's the combo of using a PA after the ex trap builds the chain that was too unbalanced.

That's a shame tho, I use to abuse the chain building on an EX Trap then swap to grenade for an instant high damage attack. Especially with Double Charge ability.

[THOTH]

Well... it gives more cred to the braver ability of boosting trap damage too I guess.

Hrmm...hey, any one know where that male/female outfit image went where it had like 8 different outfits for each gender? I can't find it on here, someone had posted it...no clue where it went.