Does supp update make Acrotecher's techs useless?

[SolomonGrundy]

Consider:

1. Fortetechers get access to 41+ techs ( AND diga and foie hit 2 targets at this level)
2. MF get limit breaks (Foie and Diga).

Given this, and the superior TP of both the jobs, and Rods is there a reason to AcroTECH after the update?

DAM, Nos, and Gi techs favor Fortetecher/MF's superior equiptment, and foie and diga's 41+ enhancement means that these techs favor Fortetechers as well.

That leaves only RA techs, and megid/barta/zonde for acrotechers to excel in.


Thoughts? Counter point?

[Powder Keg]

The Fortetecher will not be able to get higher support techs IIRC. Only Masterforce will be able to do that.

[str898mustang]

U can still be a nurse :D lol

[unicorn]

You know, Fortetecher is not better than Acrotecher at ALL.

FT is only marginally better at teching than AT, but AT is much more useful.

Plus, Diga and Foie only hit two targets if they are VERY (is in, two enemies in EACHOTHER) close. It doesn't work on bosses and bigger enemies (although it should).

With supplemental, AT blows FT out of the water. I think FT should have gotten access to limit breaks or gotten a higher ATP mod, but thats just me. FT is the only type without a boss killer.

And in GAM, AT does more damage with techs, because of their casting speed.

[SolomonGrundy]

The Fortetecher will not be able to get higher support techs IIRC. Only Masterforce will be able to do that.

not their support techs, thier TECHS (damaging)


You know, Fortetecher is not better than Acrotecher at ALL.

FT is only marginally better at teching than AT, but AT is much more useful.

Plus, Diga and Foie only hit two targets if they are VERY (is in, two enemies in EACHOTHER) close. It doesn't work on bosses and bigger enemies (although it should).

With supplemental, AT blows FT out of the water. I think FT should have gotten access to limit breaks or gotten a higher ATP mod, but thats just me. FT is the only type without a boss killer.

And in GAM, AT does more damage with techs, because of their casting speed.

Actually it does work on bosses and big enemies. Check the synths/finds thread
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2492976&postcount=445

With access to level 50 Dam, and Gi techs (Gi is getting power, speed and SE improvements - More targets favors higher TP.). Fortes can at least hang for damage.

[unicorn]

Actually it does work on bosses and big enemies. Check the synths/finds thread
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2492976&postcount=445

With access to level 50 Dam, and Gi techs (Gi is getting power, speed and SE improvements - More targets favors higher TP.). Fortes can at least hang for damage.

Thats limit Break diga. Thats only MF.

[SolomonGrundy]

Thats limit Break diga. Thats only MF.

limit break hits **2** targets. you can see it hitting 4 in the video very clearly

[unicorn]

limit break hits **2** targets. you can see it hitting 4 in the video very clearly

Did you watch the whole video? Limit Break hits up to 4 targets. Lvl 41+ Diga and Foie hit TWO targets, but on fixed targets (not one large enemy)

[Max B]

Well, you will be able to get you Attack techniques to 40 with sup. update as a Acro.
Also, you will get to more buffs Dizas and Retnis.
With this being said I will like acro even more with this update.

[SolomonGrundy]

Did you watch the whole video? Limit Break hits up to 4 targets. Lvl 41+ Diga and Foie hit TWO targets, but on fixed targets (not one large enemy)

but the wiki description indicates3 is the max?
http://psupedia.info/GAS

ugh..so confusing...

so it is 3+1? (limit break gives 3, then on of the hits is close enough to another hit box to give the final 1 exta hit?

[unicorn]

but the wiki description indicates3 is the max?
http://psupedia.info/GAS

ugh..so confusing...

so it is 3+1? (limit break gives 3, then on of the hits is close enough to another hit box to give the final 1 exta hit?

???

ANYWAY. FT can't kill bosses and can't hit more than one target on a boss/big enemy.

[Max B]

but the wiki description indicates3 is the max?
http://psupedia.info/GAS

ugh..so confusing...

so it is 3+1? (limit break gives 3, then on of the hits is close enough to another hit box to give the final 1 exta hit?

Someone needs comprehend what they are reading more clearly.

[Powder Keg]

not their support techs, thier TECHS (damaging)

Oh, I figured you weren't talking about that. How would that make AT useless?


Someone needs comprehend what they are reading more clearly.

That may prove difficult. >> http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177911

[SolomonGrundy]

look guys, to quote the wiki

"Removes Diga's one hit per target restriction and adds two additional targets"

TWO additional targets, plus ONE orginal target is 3, not 4.

If the wiki is incorrect, don't go blaming MY reading comprehension.

Oh, and powder keg? That was a nice sublte dig. Except that most of the folks in that thread thing the fire EX traps do not work well. So while certain people may think that a burn trap that actually burns while the trap is going off is overpowered, others don't.

Still, I appreciate a subtle dig. better than being called stupid ;-p

[Marik]

Maybe they were talking about before level 41. If you have limit break on diga before 41 it would only be 3 targets before gaining the fourth target at 41+.

[Powder Keg]

I'm just being a jerk. No hard feelings. :)

[milranduil]

To clarify after the update this is what happens:

41+ Foie and Diga can hit 2 different enemies to put it most clearly, whether it's two Kamatoze with 4 hit boxes total, or 2 Vandas, you will only see 2 numbers if it's 2 different ENEMIES, meaning only one number on something like Ragan.

Limit break increases the target to 4 potential numbers AND adjusts it so that you can multi hit a single enemy with however many hit boxes they have, up to 4. Meaning you can hit 2 Kamatozes for 4 numbers, De Ragan for 4 numbers, or 4 Go Bajillas for 4 numbers.

[SolomonGrundy]

ugh, ok, so it is really only MFs that make aT tech look weak. Given aT versatility, I think that's fair.

The really kinda left Fortetechers out in the cold. I rather think MFs old stats were a decent disincentive to playing one, but after the Supp update I cannot imagine someone playing fT

[unicorn]

ugh, ok, so it is really only MFs that make aT tech look weak. Given aT versatility, I think that's fair.

The really kinda left Fortetechers out in the cold. I rather think MFs old stats were a decent disincentive to playing one, but after the Supp update I cannot imagine someone playing fT

Yeah FT easily needs a higher TP mod and defensive stats than MF to be useful. Or maybe even a higher ATP mod.

The problem with FT is that with GAS, you'd probably want to use the same base abilities MF would use, but MF trumps FT.

Even if you use AP to increase your bows, cards, spears, daggers, etc. FT is still the WORST user of all of those, and another type using AP on those said weapon types would still use them better.

For example, while you can use AP on FT to increase your cards to take them to 31+, Wartecher and Acrotecher will still use them better at 21+. Same thing with Bows. Even at 31+ and S-rank bows, Wartecher can easily keep up with FTs bullet damage.

Sad thing is, FT was left unchanged with stats. Has lots of room for versatility, but its stats make it primarily an offensive techer. Whats worse is, FT suddenly becomes a much slower MF pre-supplemental with decent support.

[SolomonGrundy]

I agree with you luu. I was thinking the right solution was to make master force more fragile, rather than buff Fortetecher with TP, or with other stats.

Remember that fTs did receive a hp balance already, that brought them quite close to Acrotechers. Giving them ATP would just move them more in this direction. Maybe the change to bows will help...but if Japan is any measure, fTs are barely used anymore.

Ideally, you need a place for all these types.

[xBULLYDOGG]

look guys, to quote the wiki

"Removes Diga's one hit per target restriction and adds two additional targets"

TWO additional targets, plus ONE orginal target is 3, not 4.

If the wiki is incorrect, don't go blaming MY reading comprehension.

Oh, and powder keg? That was a nice sublte dig. Except that most of the folks in that thread thing the fire EX traps do not work well. So while certain people may think that a burn trap that actually burns while the trap is going off is overpowered, others don't.

Still, I appreciate a subtle dig. better than being called stupid ;-p

I won't blame you for your reading comprehension, but I will blame you for putting trust in the wiki, and believing that what you read on one particular site must not be flawed what so ever.

[SolomonGrundy]

I won't blame you for your reading comprehension, but I will blame you for putting trust in the wiki, and believing that what you read on one particular site must not be flawed what so ever.

fair enough

;-)

[xBULLYDOGG]

-contributes-
Acrotechers will still be my favorite form of techer in the game after the supp simply because of the weapons they can use and their PA levels. And besides, I like the look of pushans more than any a rank tech mag >>

[HyperShot-X-]

To clarify after the update this is what happens:
..
Limit break increases the target to 4 potential numbers AND adjusts it so that you can multi hit a single enemy with however many hit boxes they have, up to 4. Meaning you can hit 2 Kamatozes for 4 numbers, De Ragan for 4 numbers, or 4 Go Bajillas for 4 numbers.
thank you for clarifying this, it clears up a great deal on why Limit break Foi/Diga is such a huge advantage for MF.

Now that's been answered, I can move onto my next question on Card PA LV+ and any upgrade it gets at Lv41+ like an additional bullet for total of 4...