Expansion or Whole New Game?

[terrell707]

So i have a question. Many people are ready to be done with PSU and ready for a whole new Phantasy Star experience. However many people think that PSP2 is as good as, or maybe even better than PSO and PSU combined. So i was thinking, how would you guys feel if they made a PSP2 expansion to PSU? Like if they brought the new levels, the new PAs, the new techer system, the upgraded difficulty system and new bosses to PSU and maybe even a little more. Woould this keep you hooked to PSU? Do you think it would bring some of the old people back and maybe even more people?

[Hiero_Glyph]

As long as SEGA develops this franchise it is doomed to be recycled content no matter how many new games they create. The only way to save PS at this point is by having a new developer actually innovate things.

[Powder Keg]

I'll take a whole new game, they just need to remember what things to look out for/implement right away instead of changing it later on in the game (Like minor convenience things they fixed in PSO they somehow forgot when PSU came around)

Also, this game is a PS2 port and we need to move on to a much larger world of visuals and character customization.....movements, battle/attacking style, and looks.

[Ezodagrom]

It's highly unlikely that there will be any more expansions to PSU, at most they'll bring "new" items, some customization options through DLC and such.
Sakai mentioned that Phantasy Star Portable 2 can be seen as the "compilation of the series". I'm guessing PSPo2 is for PSU what PSOBB was for PSO? (the last game of the series)

Anyway, I'm all for a whole new game.


As long as SEGA develops this franchise it is doomed to be recycled content no matter how many new games they create. The only way to save PS at this point is by having a new developer actually innovate things.
I kinda have a feeling that having another developer doing an online Phantasy Star game would actually be harmful to the series.
*imagines a point and click Phantasy Star* ._.

[Seth Astra]

*imagines a point and click Phantasy Star* ._.
Must... not... shoot... self... in... head... at... the... idea... *Pulls gun away from head.* That would be... Lame, to say the least.

[GUARDIANDNL]

even though sega make a new game, i´m still keep playing psp2 now and psu japan eventually. cause phantasy star history after PSO show that always sega will keep update they original country games for years like.....PSOBB JPN.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I kinda have a feeling that having another developer doing an online Phantasy Star game would actually be harmful to the series.
*imagines a point and click Phantasy Star* ._.

Well, take Capcom for example and their work with Monster Hunter and Lost Planet. Both games contain elements that would benefit PSU and greatly update the franchise. I'm not saying that the genre of the game needs to be reinvented but Lost Planet's hitbox system (orange/red=shoot) is 100 times better than the one that is PSU currently.

Anyway, the style of Phantasy Star will always remain an action oriented RPG but the franchise needs some new life in art direction and/or gameplay. Sonic Team seems to be stuck doing the exact same thing for years now and even the PS:P games contain reskins. Has the Phantasy Star franchise simply become shovelware at this point? It sure feels like it.

[Max B]

Id say we need a blue burst of Psu.

[darthplagis]

its funny, i was mentioning to me wife about the next in the PS series the other day, and mentioned segas shelling out of its franchises to other companies.

i mentioned something about square enix would be cool to take over the PS series for some back to roots RPG games, imagine a generations of doom style game.

then i went and bought resonance of fate........ and who made that....... sega published with tri-ace developing, my 3rd (technically 2nd, due to square enix being one now) on the list of RPG maker classics. maybe this is a sign of things to come, given how close the RPG companies have been recently.

ohhh just imagine it PS series meets star ocean :) i seee them as similar animals so it could work :)

[Ezodagrom]

Well, PSU was released in the worst years of Sonic Team, I think (well, it was around the time Sonic 06 was released, so, yeah, worst years), and it still showed that it had the potential to be much better (but it was poorly handled).
Lately SEGA/Sonic Team seem to have been improving, I think it's possible that the next Phantasy Star will be great.


Id say we need a blue burst of Psu.
That's what Phantasy Star Portable 2 is.

[Sinue_v2]

then i went and bought resonance of fate........ and who made that....... sega published with tri-ace developing, my 3rd (technically 2nd, due to square enix being one now) on the list of RPG maker classics. maybe this is a sign of things to come, given how close the RPG companies have been recently.

ohhh just imagine it PS series meets star ocean :) i seee them as similar animals so it could work :)

I'd rather see Atlus handle a single player offline Phantasy Star.

[Ezodagrom]

I'd rather see Atlus handle a single player offline Phantasy Star.
I'd rather see Rieko Kodama handle a single player PS. :3

[HienkyakuX]

As long as SEGA develops this franchise it is doomed to be recycled content no matter how many new games they create. The only way to save PS at this point is by having a new developer actually innovate things.

If they give this game to another developer they will try and make another WoW stile look alike game and then this game will suck like you have no idea. So it's better were it is atm; the only thing is they have to learn from their biggest 2 mistakes...making separated servers and slow paste game (having to wait for 1-2 year for stuff that was in the game).

And about Capcom maybe but the game it to short; not that I dislike the game but there's no to much more after you have done all rank 5 quests. It's way to limited to what it can become; but maybe with time it will get bigger.

[Hiero_Glyph]

And about Capcom maybe but the game it to short; not that I dislike the game but there's no to much more after you have done all rank 5 quests. It's way to limited to what it can become; but maybe with time it will get bigger.

As opposed to running the same 5 missions in PSU? I am not claiming that the Monster Hunter formula is perfect for the PS series but it could easily be modified to the style of PSU currently.

To each their own, but the PS series is dying a slow death thanks to Sonic Team and the only thing keeping the franchise going is Japanese gamers that will buy every game from a franchise they like regardless of the quality (Koei has proven this fact). PS:P was a step in the right direction but with no support outside of Japan (again) why should gamers from the rest of the world care about Phantasy Star when there are much better games being supported worldwide?

EDIT: And just like all things Phantasy Star, the rest of the world has to wait almost a full year to get what Japan already has in PS:P2.

[Ezodagrom]

And just like all things Phantasy Star, the rest of the world has to wait almost a full year to get what Japan already has in PS:P2.
Not entirely true. PSU started 2 months behind, and until the expansion it stayed 2~3 months behind JP. The huge delays in everything related to Phantasy Star only started after the first MAG event. ._.

Anyway, SEGA screwed up with PSU, but that doesn't mean they'll screw up the next one.

[Max B]

Well, PSU was released in the worst years of Sonic Team, I think (well, it was around the time Sonic 06 was released, so, yeah, worst years), and it still showed that it had the potential to be much better (but it was poorly handled).
Lately SEGA/Sonic Team seem to have been improving, I think it's possible that the next Phantasy Star will be great.


That's what Phantasy Star Portable 2 is.

No, thats Blue Burst of Phantasy Star Portable.

[Ezodagrom]

No, thats Blue Burst of Phantasy Star Portable.
Phantasy Star Portable is still a part of the PSU series. The story on PSPo2 is 3 years after PSU.
If you say it doesn't count because of it being in a different platform, PSOBB was also in a different platform from PSO EP1&2. :wacko:

[Hiero_Glyph]

Anyway, SEGA screwed up with PSU, but that doesn't mean they'll screw up the next one.

Yes, because SEGA has a history of improving upon their previous mistakes. Eternal Christmas anyone? Sonic Team is past their prime at this point, they killed their Sonic franchise and are now working at killing off Phantasy Star. The concept and storyline of Phantasy Star is beyond epic and now the technology is finally in place to deliver this to the fans. Do you really think that the team that had success 20 years ago is the one to deliver this experience?

To me PSU could be so many things and take from games like Monster Hunter, Lost Planet, Mass Effect, etc. With cell shading looking better and better there is no reason why they can't keep the art style the same and use games like Valkyrie Chronicles and Borderlands as a reference. Anyway, it's now 2010 and we are playing a PS2 port while the PSP game already has better features and possibly even better graphics (all thanks to Alfa System). It's about time that Phantasy Star is given a chance to evolve and Sonic Team is not the one that will accomplish this.

[Ezodagrom]

Yes, because SEGA has a history of improving upon their previous mistakes.
Yeah, SEGA is rushing Sonic 4 to be released in the summer instead of delaying it for later in 2010 to improve it, oh wait...


It's about time that Phantasy Star is given a chance to evolve and Sonic Team is not the one that will accomplish this.
Alfa Team might have developed PSPo2, but they took some ideas from PSZero (which was made by Sonic Team).

It's too soon to know if Sonic Team will screw up both the next Phantasy Star and Sonic games or if they'll make some great games.

[Max B]

Stop being so negative.
This.
Edit: I expect a new Phantasy Star game to be announced at E3.

[Ezodagrom]

This.
Edit: I expect a new Phantasy Star game to be announced at E3.
If not E3, then TGS, I guess.

[Hiero_Glyph]

It's too soon to know if Sonic Team will screw up both the next Phantasy Star and Sonic games or if they'll make some great games.

Best logic ever; not.

Seriously, it is too soon to know if I will win the lottery this week either but we will never find out unless I buy a ticket. Yes, Sonic Team can keep developing games but their recent trend is to support their games in Japan and then shovel them out for the rest of the world to try and gain an extra buck or two. You only need to look as far as PSU, PS:P ad PS:P2 (the last 3 entries in the Phantasy Star series) to see this fact is already well established. PSU started out so well too.

You can keep hoping that Sonic Team will put some effort into the 360 PSU servers too but the facts prove otherwise. Do we really need to see Japan's servers getting an update every two weeks or better while we struggle to get new content every three weeks (180 level cap and nothing else? C'mon). Yes, there is always hope that things will get better, unfounded hope but still hope nonetheless.

Fanboy or not, Sonic Team has done very little to promote Phantasy Star outside of Japan. Yes, the franchise is dying and all we can do at this point is hope that things will improve because they certainly cannot get much worse.

[darthplagis]

the thing is, if and when there is an announcement of a new PS title, it will still be a year till it is released, probably 18 months or more till its translated.

by then bioware will have finished the old republic (its slated for a spring 2011 launch).

hopefully though with sega's new restructuring of the western devision, the JP team will just hand them a bulk dump of data to translate and distribute as its ready, rather than have the JP team handle it all as was previously done. if i remember right edward said that our supplimental update was to be larger than that of the JP side at release, so hopefully that means more speedy updates for us.

if this is the case then the western market may well have faster distribution now that sega west (US side) is digital only. again this may lead to faster releases to our regions which can not only help SEGA in reputaion but in profits, as there will be less time in development/translation/localisation.

also with the internet being the monster that it is advertising a game will be much easier than before, and sega may take the step of advertising IN GAME like on crackdown and saints row and probably GTA 4 (i have never played that one but in game billboards in crack down and saints row had realtime adverts). imagine in a new PS title the signs in the lobby actually being relevant to upcoming products :)

[Ezodagrom]

Best logic ever; not.

Seriously, it is too soon to know if I will win the lottery this week either but we will never find out unless I buy a ticket. Yes, Sonic Team can keep developing games but their recent trend is to support their games in Japan and then shovel them out for the rest of the world to try and gain an extra buck or two. You only need to look as far as PSU, PS:P ad PS:P2 (the last 3 entries in the Phantasy Star series) to see this fact is already well established. PSU started out so well too.
This is not the best comparison, I can't really remember any game series that went from good to bad to good (it sure beats comparing a game developer to a lottery ticket), but in the computer hardware market, the GPU (graphics processing units) manufacturer ATI couldn't compete against Nvidia with the Radeon HD2000 and HD3000 series, these 2 series were just bad (HD2K kinda being the Sonic 06 of the graphics cards, and HD3k being Sonic Unleashed XD). But with the HD4000 and HD5000 series, they made some great GPUs, ATI went from bad to good.


You can keep hoping that Sonic Team will put some effort into the 360 PSU servers too but the facts prove otherwise. Do we really need to see Japan's servers getting an update every two weeks or better while we struggle to get new content every three weeks (180 level cap and nothing else? C'mon). Yes, there is always hope that things will get better, unfounded hope but still hope nonetheless.
Heh, the PSU series are beyond saving, it was doomed from the start, since when SEGA/ST thought it was a good idea to slowly unlock content already available on the disk. Even if they would start bringing updates faster to the 360 servers, it's not like there's any interesting update in the next year or so. (I don't really care about the XBox360 servers anyway)


Fanboy or not, Sonic Team has done very little to promote Phantasy Star outside of Japan. Yes, the franchise is dying and all we can do at this point is hope that things will improve because they certainly cannot get much worse.
An improvement is not unlikely, it's not impossible for a company to learn from their mistakes, they can actually do a great game and support it well next time. They can also screw up even more than in the previous attempt as well. So, my point stands, it's too soon to know.

[Sinue_v2]

I'd rather see Rieko Kodama handle a single player PS. :3

Obviously. Rieko & Tohru are the only ones in Sega I trust with a new Phantasy Star title... but even with that, I don't trust Sega corporate to give them the budget and freedom to work their magic.

So... send Rieko, Tohru, and Naka (contract him from Prope) over to Atlus.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

i just wish sega could see things like this, so they would know that their fans don't want what they're giving us, and they should really go back to the roots ( or, more preferably to me, back to the good days of the early 2000s), i think pso and sonic adventure were the golden days of sega, altho some people would say that the days of 16 bit sonic were best, its obvious that we all agree Sega needs to look back at their good games when they make the new ones

[Ezodagrom]

i just wish sega could see things like this, so they would know that their fans don't want what they're giving us, and they should really go back to the roots ( or, more preferably to me, back to the good days of the early 2000s), i think pso and sonic adventure were the golden days of sega, altho some people would say that the days of 16 bit sonic were best, its obvious that we all agree Sega needs to look back at their good games when they make the new ones
I think SEGA is trying to do just that, looking back at what made their games great, at least in the Sonic franchise, with Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors.

From an interview with Iizuka:

When you say “Sonic,” the first image that pops into people’s heads is that of Sonic running. And until now, we haven’t really been able to successfully implement any moves besides running. We wanted to explore ways of adding new moves and new styles of play without sacrificing the traditional Sonic running action, and that led to the creation of the transformation power-up system.
[....]
In all of our past Sonic games, we tried to experiment with introducing new styles of gameplay that didn’t involve running, but I think that those elements were so different that they ended up clashing with the traditional Sonic gameplay instead of complementing it. When it came time to work out the power-ups in Sonic Colors, I feel we really succeeded in embracing our core concept of “100% pure Sonic style high speed action,” and coming up with new moves that gelled well with Sonic’s core gameplay.
[....]
That’s why this year’s Sonic games [....] have been developed with a central focus on reestablishing the traditional Sonic gameplay experience. Sonic Colors introduces a style of power-up driven action that is entirely new to the series, but I think it still maintains the sense of speed and satisfying pacing that are the hallmarks of the series.
http://www.tssznews.com/2010/06/03/nintendo-powers-sonic-colors-interview-with-takashi-iizuka/
Sounds promising, right? ^^;
(wonder if it will be good in the end)

[Hiero_Glyph]

So, my point stands, it's too soon to know.

It's not so much a point as wishful thinking based on no factual evidence whatsoever. No new PS game has been announced other than PS:P2; if that proves your point then I would have to disagree. Other than that we can only base our opinions on what Sonic Team has done with the previous Phantasy Star games and that is not something that proves anything good or inspires us to believe that things will improve.

Once a new Phantasy Star game is announced you are free to hope that things will improve, until that time please base your opinions on the facts and not wishful thinking (or pure speculation). I'm still hoping I win the lottery but history and my previous experience says that I probably won't. I can still hope I win but that does not increase my chances of winning just as hoping that Sonic Team will improve the PS franchise does not prove that they will. I do wonder which outcome is more likely though.

EDIT: Haha, I was reading a thread about the new Lost Planet 2 update and one of the posters wrote: "overall, I am glad we are at least getting a patch of some sort... Sega would have moved on already." [Source (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958322-lost-planet-2/55059690/606934136)]

[Yuicihi]

Unfortunately for Sega, I foresee another Dreamcast here, where Sega produced an excellent system that ultimately fell to a variety of factors, the biggest offender being confidence in the company name going down the toilet into a big, black hole after three past failures.

I recall posting a PSP2 news thread on another forum, a mostly Nintendo-based forum, and watched the steady stream of negative replies from the people who had played Phantasy Star Universe. Several people I know also had a distaste for the game. It wasn't a terrible game by any means, but also a mismanaged product, on top of being a niche product. The general consensus of the public of Phantasy Star Universe is typically negative.

To be brief, if Sega actually wanted a profit and to perhaps save the brand in the West, they'd have to do it with a new game. A simple expansion pack won't cut it. There's a lot of backlash against the PSU name, and there's a lot to say in a name. Of course, while the best option is to move ahead, Sega will find difficulty either way, since the name Phantasy Star isn't in the greatest shape in the West..

"Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me a second or third time, still shame on you! Fool me a fourth time? Nah-uh."

[Max B]

Well, I guess we can only hope that Sega will treat us a on par with japan in the next version of Phantasy Star.

[FirefoxKyuubi]

I think SEGA is trying to do just that, looking back at what made their games great, at least in the Sonic franchise, with Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors.

From an interview with Iizuka:

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/06/03/nintendo-powers-sonic-colors-interview-with-takashi-iizuka/
Sounds promising, right? ^^;
(wonder if it will be good in the end)

No, I believe Soinc Colors won't be promising and here's why. It's the simple fact that new Soinc games are in 3D! Ever since Sonic has made this translation it has showed lack of speed no matter how you look at it. Sonic Adv. Was great and all on the dreamcast but fail at having a good cam. Angle. And talk that from today stand point where sonic still fail to show his lack of speed.

Which is why I have little or no faith in Sonic 4 & Sonic Colors. Real Sonic games are Genesis days and hell even Sonic advance series was better then there big name games but that slowly died once 3 came alone. Can somebody tell me why oh why do I have more excitement from a Homemake Sonic game called "Sonic XG" that's made by 2 Guys then Sonic 4 that's made by there own team? Because Sonic XG shows what sonic was about being true the speed and backdrops that was amazing.

Moving on to PSU. Honestly I think there's another PSU game going to come out but I highly doubt Sega or Sonic Team will ever release it in the West. I really think it will be japan only cuase as someone said in this thead. "why does the rest of the world care about PS games?" we don't because it's things like slow updates and getting treated unfairly against japan that puts us off. The game is Doomed outside of japan. If there's not one universal server then yes, this same thing will happen even with pretty GFX. I'm a 360 player for PSU and this game is My first MMO and logic or not this will surely be my last PSO game just for the fact of a bad exp. I have had with this game. Hance the reason why it's dying.

I hope there will be a better PSU/PSO game for the sake of the fans, even if the just coated it with UTE 3. But if something like "PSU:2 will use natal" count alot of people out.

[Ezodagrom]

No, I believe Soinc Colors won't be promising and here's why. It's the simple fact that new Soinc games are in 3D! Ever since Sonic has made this translation it has showed lack of speed no matter how you look at it. Sonic Adv. Was great and all on the dreamcast but fail at having a good cam. Angle. And talk that from today stand point where sonic still fail to show his lack of speed.
Actually some 3D games are faster paced than the classics (for example Sonic Unleashed day stages).
But Sonic games are not all about speed, they're about speed and platforming.


Which is why I have little or no faith in Sonic 4 & Sonic Colors. Real Sonic games are Genesis days and hell even Sonic advance series was better then there big name games but that slowly died once 3 came alone. Can somebody tell me why oh why do I have more excitement from a Homemake Sonic game called "Sonic XG" that's made by 2 Guys then Sonic 4 that's made by there own team? Because Sonic XG shows what sonic was about being true the speed and backdrops that was amazing.
Checked out Sonic XG...how does that looks better than Sonic 4?
Even with all the "problems" in the leaks, in my opinion Sonic 4 is looking better than that fangame. SEGA even delayed Sonic 4 to improve it, which is something they didn't even do for the 15th anniversary game and their debut on the current gen consoles (Sonic 06).


Moving on to PSU. Honestly I think there's another PSU game going to come out but I highly doubt Sega or Sonic Team will ever release it in the West.
There's another game from the PSU series coming out in the west later this year, Phantasy Star Portable 2. :wacko:


I really think it will be japan only cuase as someone said in this thead. "why does the rest of the world care about PS games?" we don't because it's things like slow updates and getting treated unfairly against japan that puts us off. The game is Doomed outside of japan. If there's not one universal server then yes, this same thing will happen even with pretty GFX. I'm a 360 player for PSU and this game is My first MMO and logic or not this will surely be my last PSO game just for the fact of a bad exp. I have had with this game. Hance the reason why it's dying.

I hope there will be a better PSU/PSO game for the sake of the fans, even if the just coated it with UTE 3. But if something like "PSU:2 will use natal" count alot of people out.
For the 1st year and half there was an acceptable delay between the eastern and western servers. It was around 2~3 months delay.
I think the big delays started with the move of the servers to San Francisco and the billing problems during the MAG event on the PC/PS2 servers, which caused an extension of the event, which went to delay other updates even further. After that the delays kept increasing more and more.
And the delays in updates weren't the only or the biggest problem, PSU was doomed right from the start, since it was released while having less content available online than in offline, and then the updates were online content that was slowly unlocked from the disk. Also the updates weren't only slow in the western servers, they were slow too in the JP servers (the updates were slow in JP, and even slower in the west).

Anyway, a new game is a new opportunity, let's see if they can learn from their past mistakes.

[FirefoxKyuubi]

Checked out Sonic XG...how does that looks better than Sonic 4?
Even with all the "problems" in the leaks, in my opinion Sonic 4 is looking better than that fangame. SEGA even delayed Sonic 4 to improve it, which is something they didn't even do for the 15th anniversary game and their debut on the current gen consoles (Sonic 06).


There's another game from the PSU series coming out in the west later this year, Phantasy Star Portable 2. :wacko:



Anyway, a new game is a new opportunity, let's see if they can learn from their past mistakes.

I never really said Sonic XG looks better then Sonic 4, I said my excitement meaning my love for the classic Sonic is something that the new games are missing. Sonic needs to go back to his roots and Sonic 4 may seem like it's doing that but from the Annoncement video I seen. He was running really slow in 2.5D. Platforming seems ok tho.

And My mistake, I ment to say a New Console Phantasy star not portable game (PS3/360/Wii) my views of them coming out in the West for a new title seems pretty Dim because sega seem like they are having touble with the west and this series. If they make it one global server alot of problems may die Down making it easy for them to update. But if the new game have 2 Diff. Servers then we will see the same things happen over and over. So why bother coming out in the west again?

Don't get me wrong, I love sega games and I love where PSU is but they need to change big time. Or atlease take a few pointers from other game companies. There's no reason why sega let Phantasy star get this bad (atlease here) it could be a better game alot better. And for the sake of the people that like PSO series, I can only hope a new game will excite them.

[RemiusTA]

Yeah, SEGA is rushing Sonic 4 to be released in the summer instead of delaying it for later in 2010 to improve it, oh wait...



Oh please. Sonic 4 is the most pathetic Sonic title i have EVER seen come from Sonic Team, and that is the absolute truth. Absolutely everything about that game screams "MEDIOCRE", from the rehashed physics engine to the absolutely horrible music. Them delaying it doesn't justify them hyping the game at such a shitty state. The only reason they're delaying the game is because they KNOW how bad they just fucked up -- you can't call the game "SONIC 4", trying to build upon the Genesis series' success, and then release a horrible, lackluster mediocre videogame for a quick buck.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles had FOURTEEN stages, each with 2 acts, different backgrounds, and remixed BGMs for each act. Not to mention THREE different characters, Knuckles having completely different stage layouts than Sonic and Tails.

Sonic 4 has ONE character, no Shield abilities (sonic had 3 in S3&K), and significantly less stages. It does not have remixed BGMs (Sonic Advance 3 had 3 acts all with remixed music, and very good music at that). The Physics Engine is a copy/paste of Sonic Rush's engine (which was only good because of the speed it moved at -- there is no boost in this game, and the physics calculations are worse than the method used in the Sega Genesis games. Wtf.) Sonic's model is animated so poorly its almost funny. There is nothing done right about this game.



Checked out Sonic XG...how does that looks better than Sonic 4?
Even with all the "problems" in the leaks, in my opinion Sonic 4 is looking better than that fangame. SEGA even delayed Sonic 4 to improve it, which is something they didn't even do for the 15th anniversary game and their debut on the current gen consoles (Sonic 06).No...no, it doesn't. Like i said, they delayed the game because if they released it in its current state we'd all think it was a joke. If Sonic Team had came out and shown Sonic XG in place of Sonic 4, they wouldn't be getting nearly as much flak as they are now, because the game actually is fun. The ONLY thing Sonic 4 has on XG is HD graphics, and even those look wonky -- the parallax backgrounds on Sonic 4 look retarded as hell.



No, I believe Soinc Colors won't be promising and here's why. It's the simple fact that new Soinc games are in 3D! Ever since Sonic has made this translation it has showed lack of speed no matter how you look at it. Sonic Adv. Was great and all on the dreamcast but fail at having a good cam. Angle. And talk that from today stand point where sonic still fail to show his lack of speed. (And this is my last comment on Sonic)

If you look back at the best sonic games (genesis series, Sonic Advance 1)....the games were never about speed at all. They were just damn good platformers, with high-speed PORTIONS. Sonic games were all about exploration and really fun level interaction. Now, they're all about running headfirst into enemies and grinding on rails. (????????) Sonic games were great because they were all about momentum and control. You rarely EVER lost control of sonic, and every gimmick required some kind of input from the player. Today, instead of developing real levels, interaction, and platforming, they just put a string of obvious enemies in the way for you to homing attack (Or even WORSE, a string of rings -_-). Or those little (PRESS X or A) shooter thingies from Unleashed. The games are so streamlined, theres no way they can be as fun as the genesis series. The ONLY significantly fast Sonic Game to get level interaction right (besides the 2 adventure games) was Sonic Heroes. (Great game too, AMAZING level music. Every other team besides Team Sonic was just stupid though, which is why i hate the game. Unlocking shit was boring as hell.)

Sonic Adventure 2 was, in my opinion, the absolute pinnacle of old Sonic Team's talent. The game's graphics were amazing for its time. It introduced tons of new gameplay elements to the franchise (the first time grinding was introduced, and it was used VERY well on lots of interesting objects. Now rainbow colored rails just float around the place....) Not only did it have Sonic's original 3D gameplay....but it included a shooting platformer, as well as a Driving minigame. And most importantly, the Chao system was really astounding to me the way they morphed and behaved, and how intricate the system was for breeding and leveling them up. People may not entirely want to play the other characters over sonic, but the fact stands that their gameplay was very welldone.

On top of the menu systems, full voiced tutorial, and the amazing Chao system, Sonic Adventure 2, regardless of its ratings, had an obvious showing of heaping effort put towards the game. You could tell they put themselves into that game, and in all truth, it was the last game Sonic Team created that felt that way. (outside Blue Burst and PSO Ep1&2 of course.)



The cold hard truth? Sonic Team is NOT the same company they were 10 years ago. We dont get anymore Nights, Burning Rangers, PSO, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Advance 1, ect ect. The funny thing? Most people dont know some of the best games from Sonic Team were actually developed by Sonic Team USA. Including Sonic 2 (my favorite of the genesis btw) and Sonic Adventure 2. Not like it matters, because today both Sonic Team USA AND Sonic Team Japan suck ass at making games. The last two games they've created that had any kind of effort to them were Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed.

So no, Sonic will never make its epic return. The last 2D sonic game that lived up to the Genesis games was Sonic Advance 1. 2 was a disaster and 3 was simply flawed....but even those 2 games looked far more promising than Sonic 4. 3D games....

.....the funny thing is this. The most overused gimmick in Sonic games now are grind rails, jump pads, and lightdash rings. The Lightdash and Jump Pads were invented in Sonic Adventure 1, and Grind Rails and just about every other movement gimmick (somersaults and stuff) were invented in Sonic Adventure 2, and the lightdash was improved upon (but wasn't overused, actually was barely used at all unless for secrets). What have they created since then? Not a god damn thing. Grinding is no longer just for neat side uses and points -- the WHOLE STAGE is built with rails now. You dont even have to balance on them anymore, or build momentum before you start grinding; its all automatic. The only new gimmick they've invented is that stupid thing that shoots you right or upwards....and all you have to do is press a button for those.


They just have no more creativity. They just spit out whatever the REAL development team created about a decade and a half ago, simplify it, then get it wrong and promise to do it right the next time.

Sonic Team is dead now.

[RemiusTA]

Sorry for the doublepost, but i wanna split it up between that long tl';dr about sonic...


PSU....The main issue with PSU is the same issue with Sonic. I used to think Sonic Team was just being lazy, but now its starting to become clear to me.


They just dont have the talent anymore. It isnt there. They can think of ideas, but they cant think of any ones that work. It took ALFA SYSTEMS to give the Phantasy Star franchise what we've been bitching about for ages. PSP2 is everything PSU wants to be and more, and it was done in a single development period. All they had to do was give the damn game to someone else.


I just dont think they have the talent anymore. The last talent Sonic Team aquired was during the development of Sonic Unleashed.....but the guy who designed the Hedgehog Engine recently left Sonic Team to work for SQUARE ENIX. We wont be getting another PSO ever again, not from these guys. This is not to say Phantasy Star Universe is a bad or lackluster game. It just fails to push the envelope on anything, like Phantasy Star Online did. Perhaps they'll go all out this time and develop for the PS3/360/PC? Nobody knows. Personally, i believe if it IS another PS MMO game, and its announced for Wii, it'll instantly be garbage. I dont care of Wii Fanboys hate me -- the Wii is a shit system for an MMO. Bottom line. It'd be the biggest mistake of the development of the game.


They just need to take their time and deliver a game that is more than a game, and a work of art, like the original Sonic Team and Sega Technical Institute used to do with every game they ever released. Otherwise, we aint gettin another PSO anytime soon. And frankly, im at the point now where i just dont care anymore. I love Phantasy Star like i love Final Fantasy, which is saying alot. But im tired of these people shitting all over their fanbase. They need to just sell it to someone like Capcom, Square Enix, or even a team like Level 5 or something and stop wasting our fucking time with their screwups.

[FirefoxKyuubi]

RemiusTA well said, I mean that puts it all in a nutshell.

[Seth Astra]

Sonic Adventure 2 was, in my opinion, the absolute pinnacle of old Sonic Team's talent. The game's graphics were amazing for its time. It introduced tons of new gameplay elements to the franchise (the first time grinding was introduced, and it was used VERY well on lots of interesting objects. Now rainbow colored rails just float around the place....) Not only did it have Sonic's original 3D gameplay....but it included a shooting platformer, as well as a Driving minigame. And most importantly, the Chao system was really astounding to me the way they morphed and behaved, and how intricate the system was for breeding and leveling them up. People may not entirely want to play the other characters over sonic, but the fact stands that their gameplay was very welldone.

On top of the menu systems, full voiced tutorial, and the amazing Chao system, Sonic Adventure 2, regardless of its ratings, had an obvious showing of heaping effort put towards the game. You could tell they put themselves into that game, and in all truth, it was the last game Sonic Team created that felt that way. (outside Blue Burst and PSO Ep1&2 of course.)
Agreed. SA2 (actually I played SA2B, but it's really the same game) was increadible, plain and simple.

[RemiusTA]

A few cleanups:

-Okay so i just found out the BGM of all 3 acts of Sonic 4 are indeed different than the last. Would make me feel a bit better if they weren't such obnoxious tunes. Sooo.....

- Yeah BTW, there IS no Sonic Team USA anymore. It was disbanded a long time ago. All we have now is Sega of America, which is just plain useless, as you all can tell, mainly because they don't do much. Japan is where everything is done, and, well....yeah, they're still screwing shit up. There's nowhere to shift the blame to. They just suck.



-Its not so much that Sonic 4 is a bad game, it just doesn't seem to look like it's going to have anywhere close to what Sonic 3 had, or Sonic & Knuckles had. (Definately not S3&K.) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was released with like 6 stages, IIRC. The only reason Sonic 3 didn't include the stages from Sonic & Knuckles is because the development time was cut in half so they could get the game out. Sonic and Knuckles releases with the Lock-on, which enables you to play the full game, as well as lock it on to Sonic 2 and play that game with Knuckles.

So they announce Sonic 4, promising to return to the roots.....but all they're doing is INCORRECTLY rehashing old shit they've already done. People dont seem to understand that Sonic the Hedgehog, during the genesis games, didn't HAVE to rehash things from the previous game -- every game they did afterwords ADDED something new. Sonic 2 added the Spindash (big deal), Sonic 3 added the elemental shield abilities for sonic (neat), Flying for tails and picking up sonic (super neat in 2P), and Sonic and Knuckles added....well, Knuckles, who could glide and climb.

Along comes Sonic 4, and what do they add? Not a thing. Not a god damn thing. You removed everything and added nothing. Return to roots my ass; you took the Sonic Rush engine, and took away the boost, tricks (i believe) and the decent music. No elemental shields, NO TAILS, NO KNUCKLES, no anything but a boring sonic.

Any new abilities? Uh, no, and you might as well take away everything he has but the damn Homing attack. Spindash and spinning in GENERAL is just useless. Have you guys seen the gameplay videos? Sonic actually DECELERATES DOWN HILLS. Thats what you get for using the Sonic Rush engine, dipshits. How the fuck do you have a sonic game that can't apply correct slope physics? -_-;

No respect for the game, its hype, or Sonic Team anymore.

[darthplagis]

i agree that SA2 was the best sonic game and the last 'true' sonic game IMO.

it had everything that made sonic what it was, speed and origionality. something which was and has been sadly missed in the last decade of ST releases.

i am hoping that segas new PS tiltle will be made by another company with the art direction done by ST, as the one thing that they have kept consistent is the common theme in art style between titles.

MMO on the wii would be bad, MH3 is ok but lacks overall due to the shitty graphics and memory of the wii..... dont get me wrong i love MH3 but if it was on a bigger console it would shine (unless it was PS3, polished turds n' all :P).

[Anon_Fire]

Sorry for the doublepost, but i wanna split it up between that long tl';dr about sonic...


PSU....The main issue with PSU is the same issue with Sonic. I used to think Sonic Team was just being lazy, but now its starting to become clear to me.


They just dont have the talent anymore. It isnt there. They can think of ideas, but they cant think of any ones that work. It took ALFA SYSTEMS to give the Phantasy Star franchise what we've been bitching about for ages. PSP2 is everything PSU wants to be and more, and it was done in a single development period. All they had to do was give the damn game to someone else.


I just dont think they have the talent anymore. The last talent Sonic Team aquired was during the development of Sonic Unleashed.....but the guy who designed the Hedgehog Engine recently left Sonic Team to work for SQUARE ENIX. We wont be getting another PSO ever again, not from these guys. This is not to say Phantasy Star Universe is a bad or lackluster game. It just fails to push the envelope on anything, like Phantasy Star Online did. Perhaps they'll go all out this time and develop for the PS3/360/PC? Nobody knows. Personally, i believe if it IS another PS MMO game, and its announced for Wii, it'll instantly be garbage. I dont care of Wii Fanboys hate me -- the Wii is a shit system for an MMO. Bottom line. It'd be the biggest mistake of the development of the game.


They just need to take their time and deliver a game that is more than a game, and a work of art, like the original Sonic Team and Sega Technical Institute used to do with every game they ever released. Otherwise, we aint gettin another PSO anytime soon. And frankly, im at the point now where i just dont care anymore. I love Phantasy Star like i love Final Fantasy, which is saying alot. But im tired of these people shitting all over their fanbase. They need to just sell it to someone like Capcom, Square Enix, or even a team like Level 5 or something and stop wasting our fucking time with their screwups.

All I can say is, Phantasy Star Portable 2 is exactly what PSU should have been from the beginning. I think they should sell the rights to the Phantasy Star franchise to SQUARE ENIX.

[Fhin]

All I can say is [...] they should sell the rights of the Phantasy Star franchise to SQUARE ENIX.

Aye!~ That would be nice. (which won't happen but nice thinking) ^^

[Ezodagrom]

I think they should sell the rights to the Phantasy Star franchise to SQUARE ENIX.
Ewww, anything but that. I tried FFXI trial, it was really boring in my opinion, even more than the usual point & click MMORPGs.

@RemiusTA: About Sonic 4, the one that will be released later this year is only Episode 1. If you're going to be comparing it with Sonic 3 & Knuckles, then it's all episodes together that should be compared, not just Episode 1. Rumors say that it's going to be 3 episodes, if this is true, and if they have a similar amount of zones that Episode 1 has, there might be around 12+ zones in total, each of them with 3 acts. Also about the characters, it's been said in an interview that future episodes will have other characters (I'm guessing Tails and Knuckles?).
About the BGM, I don't see what's bad with it, I kinda like it. ._.
The only thing I don't like about it is that the tracks are a bit too short.

About the Phantasy Star series, there's one thing I have to agree with you, if it's released for the Wii, it'll be an instafail.

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend Sonic Team failed games, Sonic 06, more than half of Sonic Unleashed, the handling of PSU, and so on, but about future games, can't judge them until they're actually released. It's not impossible for a company to learn from their mistakes, they can suddenly start making actually good games, right?
(they can also keep doing awful games as well)

[Hiero_Glyph]

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend Sonic Team failed games, Sonic 06, more than half of Sonic Unleashed, the handling of PSU, and so on, but about future games, can't judge them until they're actually released. It's not impossible for a company to learn from their mistakes, they can suddenly start making actually good games, right?
(they can also keep doing awful games as well)

You can only judge a company based on the things that they have released and that is exactly what all of us are doing. Your speculation proves nothing. Duke Nukem Forever has been delayed how many times and by your logic we can't judge it as a failure because it has not been released yet. Nope, it's a huge joke to the gaming community and even if the game was released and won Game of the Year accolades it would still be the biggest joke in video game history (just ahead of Daikatana).

SEGA is also a joke at this point. Even if they publish a few good games a year the stuff like the PS3 port of Bayonetta causes them to lose all credibility again. The newest Iron Man game resulted in SEGA firing the entire development team. Sonic Team is SEGA's flagshio studio and they are pathetic at this point. When you need to go back 10+ years to find the last successful title developed by a studio something is very, very wrong. As I said before, PS:P 1&2 were only innovative because Alfa Systems handled the development of the game. Anyway, Sonic Team is a joke at this point and you can always talk about the future but at some point you have to learn from the past and Sonic Team has a history of failure regarding Phantasy Star.

[RemiusTA]

The fact that Sonic 4 is being released in episodes is just another obvious show of their laziness. Its just an excuse to get more money for less work.




I wont compare Sonic 4 to S3&K, but even comparing it to Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles alone makes it an inferior game.

Like i said, Sonic 3 had Sonic and Tails, and they each had their own abilities. Keep in mind that in the genesis games everyone moved the exact same speed. (Knuckles just jumped significantly lower, but that was only to change up his level paths.) Sonic had the three shields that each gave him immunities and abilities (double jump, fire dash, bounce attack), and Tails could fly and swim. Not to mention, Sonic had been able to transform into Supersonic since sonic the hedgehog 2. He was able to do it in 3 as well, and also S&K. There is more content in Sonic 3 than Sonic 4 at this point. (Supersonic in Sonic 4 looks horrible IMO, hes animated even worse than the original sonic model.) Not to mention, as i just remembered...Sonic 3 released with a seperate 2-player Versus mode, as well as being able to control tails in 1p mode. (Sonic 2 had both of these as well.) Sonic 4 is just a flop.



And the PS3 port of Bayonetta is more the developers fault than the publisher. Regardless though, Bayonetta is an amazing game. In all truth SEGA is doing fine, its just Sonic Team and their internal franchises that have gone to shit.

[HyperShot-X-]

PSP2 port to pc and/or xbox360(as a stand alone if not expansion) will take about 1-2 years if it gets announced this year, but a whole new PS game might take longer to develop like 2-3 years. It'd all depend on how soon the next gen console will arrive.

Until the official announcement later this year, I could care less about all the pointless speculations and doomsday sayings and selling the franchise to other developer krap and what not. I got my hands full with the end game content coming up soon on 360.

[Shou]

Endgame content coming up soon on 360? lol what world are you living in? The only thing close to endgame items on 360 are the Edel weapons. JP doesn't even have endgame content yet with probably the exception of the Shijin Armor. I'm guessing the 360 servers will never see even a a small handful of endgame items.

[Jinto117]

This.
Edit: I expect a new Phantasy Star game to be announced at E3.

I would creme my pants if that were to happen. I highly doubt Sega would allow anyone but Sonic Team to develop a new full fledged Phantasy Star game.

[Seth Astra]

@Hiero_Glyph: One good thing SEGA has done is publish The Conduit. That's one gem among many failures that they've made.

[Hiero_Glyph]

@Hiero_Glyph: One good thing SEGA has done is publish The Conduit. That's one gem among many failures that they've made.

The Conduit was developed by High Voltage Software, not SEGA. There is a huge difference between publishing a game and developing one. SEGA is fine as a publisher but they have no development team with any quality left internally (least of all Sonic Team).

[GH499]

Endgame content coming up soon on 360? lol what world are you living in? The only thing close to endgame items on 360 are the Edel weapons. JP doesn't even have endgame content yet with probably the exception of the Shijin Armor. I'm guessing the 360 servers will never see even a a small handful of endgame items.

he indeed mean end-game content.. as in "server ending soon"

[Shou]

he indeed mean end-game content.. as in "server ending soon"
Lol true. I think it is kinda funny that I was bashed about a month ago for speculating that there is a good chance the Xblox server was going to be shutdown in about a year. Then the "no GC" announcement happened and now there are tons of people that believe they will be shutdown within the year. >_>

[Ezodagrom]

SEGA is fine as a publisher but they have no development team with any quality left internally (least of all Sonic Team).
Yakuza series, Valkyria Chronicle series, Total War series, Football (soccer) Manager series?

Anyway, this offtopic discussion about SEGA failing is kinda pointless, right?

[Anon_Fire]

I believe Sonic Team is starting to run out of ideas.

[RemiusTA]

Anyway, this offtopic discussion about SEGA failing is kinda pointless, right?

Yeah, but not so much. I mean...afterall, whether it's an expansion or a whole new game, its SEGA whos going to supply it, right?

Might as well talk about how much they suck so the blow wont be to terrible. :3

[Sayko]

Lol true. I think it is kinda funny that I was bashed about a month ago for speculating that there is a good chance the Xblox server was going to be shutdown in about a year. Then the "no GC" announcement happened and now there are tons of people that believe they will be shutdown within the year. >_>

They arent getting rid of the GC content...just the fact that you have to use GC to get the content. Cant anyone read correctly? We should get all the GC content, we are just going to buy it with something else.

[Hiero_Glyph]

They arent getting rid of the GC content...just the fact that you have to use GC to get the content. Cant anyone read correctly? We should get all the GC content, we are just going to buy it with something else.

Provide a link/quote that proves that they will still be providing us with the content exclusive to GC on Japan's servers. Let me know when you can prove your statement.

[Ezodagrom]

Provide a link/quote that proves that they will still be providing us with the content exclusive to GC on Japan's servers. Let me know when you can prove your statement.

We are currently working to find ways to bring all the content connected with GUARDIANS Cash to our servers.
[...]
Obviously not every feature can be brought to our servers in a 1:1 capacity, but I will continue to work on our behalf to help find, if necessary, creative ways to make sure the features available on the Japanese servers are in some way compensated for on ours. Items are the easiest thing to bring to our servers; for services beyond that we will continue to work with Sonic Team to find good ways to provide solutions for our users. I invite our community to comment on this process as it unfolds -- of course, I know you would anyway
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=328533
I guess not all of it will make it, but at least some of it...maybec... :>

[Mortalis]

Provide a link/quote that proves that they will still be providing us with the content exclusive to GC on Japan's servers. Let me know when you can prove your statement.

http://forums.sega.com/showpost.php?p=5843037&postcount=1


2) We are currently working to find ways to bring all the content connected with GUARDIANS Cash to our servers.

If it happens or not remains to be seen, but thats about all the proof you need for his statement.

Edit: Beaten to it.

[Shou]

They arent getting rid of the GC content...just the fact that you have to use GC to get the content. Cant anyone read correctly? We should get all the GC content, we are just going to buy it with something else.
Where the heck in your quote of me did I say Xblox was not getting GC items?

[landman]

PSU 360 will stay online at least until the next game is released, take as an example PSO for Xbox, it closed it's servers half a year after PSU release, some months after the PSOBB servers, and a year and half after the PSOGC servers. Of course Microsoft had something to do about it.

[Hiero_Glyph]

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=328533
I guess not all of it will make it, but at least some of it...maybec... :>


http://forums.sega.com/showpost.php?p=5843037&postcount=1



If it happens or not remains to be seen, but thats about all the proof you need for his statement.

Edit: Beaten to it.

That is about as much confirmation as Edward confirming that the PA Experience Boost was working when he was 100% wrong. I guess we will have to wait and see just how many items make the transition but as Edward has absolutely no power regarding our updates I still don't see any confirmation about the 360 getting those items.

EDIT: Do I need to make a list of event items that were not released on the 360 servers so far? If "items are the easiest thing to bring to our servers" then why have they not provided us with them in the past as well? Sounds like more false hope if you ask me.

[darthplagis]

ah, where did the holy ray go eh?

[Hiero_Glyph]

ah, where did the holy ray go eh?

Yeah, and the best example is Gold Bars; aren't those items too? Trusting what Edward promises is the biggest joke of all.

[Tetsaru]

Well, let's see, they took what... 3 years to make the Killer Elite available to players when it was on the ORIGINAL PSU GAME offline, well before AotI was released? Hell, even one of the PM's had it before we did - that should tell you something. :disapprove:

If a new, non-handheld online Phantasy Star game is to be made, Sonic Team needs to stay the fuck away from it, imo.

[thunder-ray]

Honestly I dont think it really matters if they come out with a whole new PS game. In the end the game will only last 2 or 3 years like the last game did and end up getting shut down after everybody gets bored of it. I seriously dont want to waste time on another PS game that might become A big waste of time and money.

[Tetsaru]

Honestly I dont think it really matters if they come out with a whole new PS game. In the end the game will only last 2 or 3 years like the last game did and end up getting shut down after everybody gets bored of it. I seriously dont want to waste time on another PS game that might become A big waste of time and money.

Well, the same could be said for any other game. ^^;

The thing with Phantasy Star is, while it's an awesome series, nowadays it just gets dragged down due to Sega's poor management. Given a good enough development team and proper funding to keep things going, I think it could prosper, especially with a large fan base. Hell, even games like Diablo 2 and Everquest still seem to be going strong, from what I hear.

[darthplagis]

Yeah, and the best example is Gold Bars; aren't those items too? Trusting what Edward promises is the biggest joke of all.

gold bars are coming with sup update, like they did in JP and also like edward said they would.........

i dont see the issue?

the holy ray was supposed to be a reward from STD event or the lightning carival i cant remember off hand

[Tyreek]

Lightning Carnival I believe. And technical difficulties was their excuse for swapping it for a Real Handgun. :/

[darthplagis]

yeah i know the difficulty, they didnt want us to have a sweet ass gun :P

[desturel]

gold bars are coming with sup update, like they did in JP and also like edward said they would.........

Gold bars came out before the supp update in Japan.

[RemiusTA]

Lightning Carnival I believe. And technical difficulties was their excuse for swapping it for a Real Handgun. :/

Funniest shit ever. Oh how I laughed.

[Hiero_Glyph]

gold bars are coming with sup update, like they did in JP and also like edward said they would.........

i dont see the issue?

the holy ray was supposed to be a reward from STD event or the lightning carival i cant remember off hand

Gold Bars were released ~2 months before the Supplemental Update for Japan's servers. The issue is that Gold Bars have been ~18 months (released 01/15/2009 for Japan) in coming and are not true content but a balance fix due to the arbitrary meseta limit. If SEGA cared they would have released these items a long time ago since as Edward said "items are the easiest thing to bring to our servers."

[Ryudo]

PSU 360 will stay online at least until the next game is released, take as an example PSO for Xbox, it closed it's servers half a year after PSU release, some months after the PSOBB servers, and a year and half after the PSOGC servers. Of course Microsoft had something to do about it.

I wouldnt bank on it given how fast Chromehounds shut down

[chedda chizzle]

Its time for a whole new game. for the money we pay to play this game, the least SEGA can do is give us a brand new game.