Defense Build?

[Mr. PotatoHead]

I just started a new Hucaseal and was wondering if a defense build would be any good.:-?

[pkrockin]

No.

Defense just isn't a valuable stat in this game because it scales terribly and is not in high supply. At most, you will get 80 from mats, 100 from units, 100 from a mag, plus 60 if you use a 7-star shield. The common understanding for Guard is that 3 Guard = 1 HP absorb (non-elemental attacks only), so all that will get you 113 more absorption. Sounds pretty good, but in Super Hard, things will routinely hit a HUcaseal for 300+ with both elemental and non-elemental attacks. In the higher-level areas, bosses will hit you for 400-500 regularly. So, yes, you can do a defense build that will give a good amount of defense, but you're still going to eat lots of 'mates and you're going to give up a LOT of damage output.

[Mr. PotatoHead]

cause i have been wondering about that for awhile now on all my other characters on if i should use any defense mats on them^^; thanks

[Cruciarius]

I've asked this before and was told:
5 points into defense = -1 point of damage

What I'd do though is go all power mats and mag. Then equip a shield. They don't deal much single target damage, but can hit multiple enemies and can block attacks (hold L). It can render you immune during some boss fights as well, like when the dragon is doing it's dive attacks across the field, hold L and you'll be safe, if using a shield.

Even if you decide not to use a shield as your main weapon, it's not bad to carry one around for certain things, like stated above.

[Broken_L_button]

How weird...My DFP HUcaseal does fine on SH. MUCH better than most people I see online. After dodging techs, the damage I receive from non-elemental attacks is around...0-117 (that's damage taken ranging from the small mobs to big mobs, before adding in tier 5 Jellen; in that case, I can take 0 damage from nearly everything).

True, bosses can still do big damage, but, then again, It's much smaller than usual. Bottom line, DFP is a build for fun; get as much DFP as you can, use a shield w/ lv.5 Jell to inflict tier 5 Jell on foes, swap to your beatstick wep and laugh as you get 0 damage from mobs while you lazily kill them. And if you're in a party with a FO, ask them to cast Deband and Jellen and you'll see how fun it is to see 0s poping around when you get hit.

As for the damage output you give up...80 ATP (from pow mats) +200 ATP (from MAG and units) = 56 damage. BUT, we all know no one is able/would slap on 4 D/pows; most people go with 3D/pow+Elem boost or maybe elem boost+Comp PA+2 D/pows. And that's if they're lucky enough to get those D/pows, lol. Now, if I add that element boost to the mix, we get :
80+175 = 51 damage. If I add in level 3 Shifta (the one the FOs give you), that damage output you give up rises to...55 damage. Now, if I put in level 5 Celeb, it goes up to...83 damage. But, that's only if you're hitting an enemy with 0 resistance to melee&ranged damage. Seems like a lot, eh? True, it does. But, there are plenty of other things that must be taken into account:

-the weapon used; if an ATP HUcaseal uses a shitty wep while a DFP HUcaseal uses a wep whose specs have been tweaked carefully to optimize performance, the DFP HUcaseal will most likely come out on top. Also, do I need to remind you guys how many people I've seen spamming melee PA's (OE, lol) on mobs in Snowfield/Makara ruins? Tsk tsk tsk...

-the enemy faced; mainly for resistances, since these may alter the damage gap between the two

-the skill of the player; 80 more pow mats won't save you against Humillias if you're not smart enough to pace your offense and place yourself correctly. Heck, I've seen a RAmarl who doesn't use Celeb at all (guess who that Ramarl is ;-)) deal better DPS than a lot of Celeb h4xbite users...

Bottom line, if all these are taken into account, DPS varies greatly. Sure, all your investment in power will ensure you get the best damage output even with some "bleh" gear, but you have to play well enough to make it matter. ANYWAYS, all I wanted to say is this: do whatever you want with your HUcassy; full pow builds ensure maximum damage output with less of a need to get that perfect wep, while gimmick builds do decent damage, but require you to get better equipment. It's all a matter of taste.

Darn it, I should have clicked on "go advanced"...

[Seth Astra]

^This.

However, I'd use HP mats, since it takes 4-5 dfp to reduce damage by 1 point, while 1 HP mat = 1 more HP of damage you can take. Also, HP boosts mono/di mate healing, and the natural HP regen.

[Kirukia]

@BLB: If it's already a level 5 element then an element boost won't do anything.
But she's right in saying a defense build is more of an advanced build.
It can work for some people but you have to know how to play it instead of just dodging and whacking things.

And "Why cheat when you can use a CelebHadan Bite?" Lol true.

[pkrockin]

According to your math, BLB, Power converts into 0.2 damage output. Everyone is also saying that 1 Guard is worth 0.2 reduction. If this were true, then people wouldn't consider Guard to be a worthless stat because it would be worth as much as Power. Considering that Power is overwhelmingly observed to scale better (easily seen just by using testing the effectiveness of Shifta and Deband), I'm pretty sure those values are wrong.

[Broken_L_button]

According to your math, BLB, Power converts into 0.2 damage output. Everyone is also saying that 1 Guard is worth 0.2 reduction. If this were true, then people wouldn't consider Guard to be a worthless stat because it would be worth as much as Power. Considering that Power is overwhelmingly observed to scale better (easily seen just by using testing the effectiveness of Shifta and Deband), I'm pretty sure those values are wrong.

Well, the formulas translated from the JP wiki say otherwise ^^

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171664

Also, I've tested these myself. For the defense values, I do manage to get 0s (or nearly 0s on Wi-Fi) from MOST enemies on SH. Heck, as long as Jell 5 lasts (it lasts a ridiculously long time), I can just set down my DS and go do some errands while enemies don't -or BARELY- damage me. For the ATP values, these were tested for normal attacks. The gap in damage MIGHT be bigger if a PA is used, but, meh, stuff dies quick anyways without PAs.

Bottom line, those numbers are FAR from wrong. You need 5 ATP for +1 damage and 5 DFP for -1 damage. Only reason you might see a difference between S/D effects is because of the difference between base ATP&DFP.

In PS0, every character and enemy is built the same way; higher ATP than DFP. Since S/D (at level 15) both boost your base ATP-MST/DFP stats by the same ratio (25%), the increase in DFP seems insignificant, thus requiring the investment in it for it to matter.

Also, the reason people consider guard a useless stat is...I'm not going to say it out loud, since it'll make everyone suddenly stop using their brains and then troll me. Look at the spoiler tag:

[SPOILER-BOX]KEEP THIS SECRET TO YOURSELF!!!! People consider guard useless because, if they invest in it, they don't invest in power/mind. And if they don't invest in pow/mind, they deal less damage, and that makes their e-peens shrink, making the world collapse around them.[/SPOILER-BOX]



@BLB: If it's already a level 5 element then an element boost won't do anything.
But she's right in saying a defense build is more of an advanced build.
It can work for some people but you have to know how to play it instead of just dodging and whacking things.

And "Why cheat when you can use a CelebHadan Bite?" Lol true.

Hmmm, you're very right about that. But the most commonly used Hunter weps don't go higher than 4, IIRC, only shields go to 5, but they're utility weapons at best, not beatsticks. And yes, it all comes down to player skill and how much of a daredevil you are. Happy to see my sig got your attention. And, ummm...Well, that's awkward but, ack, what the heck, might as well say it:

I'm a guy >.>
I guess playing female chars sometimes gets me mistaken for a girl. Hahaha.

[Kirukia]

Haha I was just guessing based on your forum avatar actually.
Since I have no way to tell I just call them whatever gender their forum avatar is unless I specifically know xD
What's really awkward is when you have your picture up and people still think you're a girl >___>

But you're probably right about the pow/mind build. Defense seems so miniscule because it's not commonly used. I suppose you can't knock it until you've tried it, otherwise you won't understand the full experience.

[Cruciarius]

Someone should make a thread with all the viable builds for each character.

Defense hunter build, PP regen FOnewm/newearl build... and all those others.

[Broken_L_button]

Hehe, I see. Sorry, I couldn't resist using that one; it looked evil for some reason...

And yup. Trying out different play styles and character builds can make this game last surprisingly longer. Though, I'll confess, maxing offensive stats is always the easiest path to the newcomer to PS online games.

Someone should make a thread with all the viable builds for each character.

Defense hunter build, PP regen FOnewm/newearl build... and all those others.

That would be nice. Very nice, indeed.

[Cruciarius]

I'm unsure what I want my HUnewearl to be. I like the double sabers right now, but I also like shields... lower damage output, but can block and be immune to some attacks. Then I'm also considering an EVP build for her...

My RAmarl, I have no ideas on build variants. Just... all power.

Then my FOnewearl I plan to have a PP regen build. Think I only need 1 more unit.

[pkrockin]

Well, the formulas translated from the JP wiki say otherwise ^^

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171664


I see, thanks for clearing that up.

[mMarikom]

What do you say we re-open CTC's character build topic BLB? It was a really cool idea that helped a lot of people with their various build ideas. I came up with the idea for a semi-EVP RAmarl that looks like it would work very well, and the build is very simple actually...people don't realize that with a Noble Cloak, divine/swifts, and 2nd tier jellen you have yourself a pretty evasive character that can still rip mobs apart with a Clairs and 80 pow mats (20 swift)

[Cruciarius]

o.O

I've got a lvl 31 RAmarl that I wasn't sure what build I should do or even what were available. Threw 100 power mats into her, for now. Enjoying using a gun blade with her. Was doing far better than some of the 40+ people I encountered on Free Play.

Though I would love to see build ideas for her and other classes.

[mMarikom]

Well there's the semi EVP build I brought up and I heard about people using slicers on RAmarls (a very good idea since they have great ATA and can have decent MST)

[Broken_L_button]

What do you say we re-open CTC's character build topic BLB? It was a really cool idea that helped a lot of people with their various build ideas. I came up with the idea for a semi-EVP RAmarl that looks like it would work very well, and the build is very simple actually...people don't realize that with a Noble Cloak, divine/swifts, and 2nd tier jellen you have yourself a pretty evasive character that can still rip mobs apart with a Clairs and 80 pow mats (20 swift)

Oh? I never saw that topic. Well, if it tickles your fancy, I guess I could help out if you need it. Kudos on your RAmarl build bearing its fruits; that's some pretty though gear to get...

[Cruciarius]

Yeah, that's an interesting RAmarl build, the EVP one, but that would basically just be what I'd be doing with my HUnewearl EVP build.

And yes, someone should either bump or start a new build topic thread. Keeping all builds in the first post, in a neat format.

Break it down to hunters, rangers and forces. List the "required" things, like mats, units, etc. What of each it's viable for, like a heavy PP regen build would ideally be for the FOnewm and FOnewearl.

[mMarikom]

It's another theory build >_> I just did the math my luck is WAY too bad to get that stuff...

[Chukie sue]

Someone should make a thread with all the viable builds for each character.

Defense hunter build, PP regen FOnewm/newearl build... and all those others.

This is a topic I've seen writing for a while now... Not just builds, FAQ's ata/evp numbers and things like that... Nobody wanted to help when I asked a while ago so it's taking alot of time ^^;

[mMarikom]

Oh I'm sorry would you like help >_>

[Chukie sue]

Well I would've but it'll prolly be more difficult to work with people now that I've started tbh :p

Thanks abunch though ^^;

[mMarikom]

Well I'm here if you need it ^_^

In fact I'll be on looking for games in about an hour it's been a while since I've played actually.