Beasts and thinly veiled racism?

[Khorian]

I've been gaming for a few years now, about 20, and I've always scratched my head when it came to Japanese portrayal of minorities in video games and Anime.

As someone who's always wanted to cosplay, I've found it increasingly more difficult over the years to pick a good character. Why? Probably because the only African-American males in Japanese games and Anime lack diversity. I'll give you a brief example:

-Dee Jay, Super Street Fighter II
-Barret Wallace, Final Fantasy VII
-That one douchebag who's a clone of Barret in the newest FF game.
-Zack, Dead or Alive
-Jax, Mortal Kombat

It would seem to me that there very few respectable roles played by black characters in JP culture. In fact, the majority of these roles do the opposite of promoting any positive images of black people. Any people of color seem to just fill the "token" role, and badly, at that.

In fact, at most times, the intelligent or seemingly normal dark-skinned characters tend to be explained away as "Ganguro" or some form of spiritual being or extraterrestrial. Most normal portrayals of people of color are in American made games.

Enter the Beast race in Phantasy Star.

I love PS games, don't get me wrong, but it would seem that the Beast race draws entirely too many similarities to African Americans, or rather, a misrepresentation of African Americans.

Regardless of the story structure surrounding Beasts, and what elements of their culture are simply plot devices, I'd like to point out a few things that I found a little unnerving.

1. Despite the war of the races being over a century ago, the CASTS have managed to rebuild the ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM OF PARUM, and yet, the Dark-skinned Beasts still manage to mostly only steal from the other races....

2. In fact, Neudaiz, Parum, and the G. Colony all manage to have working democratic governments, but not those darkies on Moatoob! Here we have a Solar-System spanning culture, on the cusp of INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL, and the Beast heavy planet is nothing but entire families of thieving lowlifes that can't even manage to form a F***ing counsel. How is it that in a century after they gained freedom from oppression, they manage to institute an arguably equally oppressive form of government?

3. Now, yes, I understand beasts were engineered to be strong and not smart, but the fact that they managed to fight for their independence and WIN it, would at least imply that they could evolve the ability to act professionally in uniform or on the clock in a hundred years, right? Wrong. It would seem, according to Sonic Team's writers that only Leo and Laia would at least be remotely educated. It would appear the Guardians can't even find ONE beast on Moatoob to take time out of her busy schedule of chewing gum, filing her nails, and cussing out her baby's daddy on the Vision Phone run the front desk with some iota of self respect. (okay, I took some liberties with the imagery here, but you get the idea)


Beasts are essentially a once-enslaved, dark-skinned, lazy people who apparently wouldn't know what to do with an entire planet to themselves. They turn to a life of crime at the drop of a hat, are prone to violent outbursts even faster than that, and seem unable to use formal speech patterns, even though the only language is ENGLISH. In fact, I'm in awe of how this is even remotely possible, as reading would have to be a requirement to exist in their world, even as a slave.

The similarities are glaring, and I know that even though PS games are preachy about everybody being equal and many plot points of the story revolve around the aforementioned preachiness, but leaving in stereotypes like these make the entire message moot.

I don't want to come off as being over-sensitive, and I don't want to seem as if I'm reaching for the Race Card (I only use that when I get pulled over). I play all races of the game, and Beast was my first Character's race. I'm simply perplexed, and wonder if any game developer in Japan knows if black people are real, much less actually trying to understand us for more accuracy...

Whatever the reason is for the way things are in Video Games these days, I would hope that companies either go all out with their prejudices so I can stay away, or actually attempt to define characters by their actions instead of outward appearance.


Am I seeing only what I want to see, or am I reading between the lines?



I eagerly await your opinions

[BIG OLAF]

I think you're reading too much into it. Oddly enough, one of my friends pointed out a few days ago that beasts are generally dark-skinned, and were once enslaved, which (obviously) bares a striking resemblance to real-life African-Americans. Honestly, I think it's pure coincidence.

Moatoob is the planet closest to Gurhal's sun, which explains the Beast's dark complexion. That's also why it's so hot and barren on most of the planet's surface.

Also, Moatoob does have a somewhat real government outside of the Rogue families: The Moatoob Trade Alliance. Even besides that, I believe Tylor reveals during the offline story mode that the Rogue families do meet sometimes to discuss planetary concerns, as a sort of unofficial council board.

EDIT: I've never noticed or seen any beasts in the story mode(s) portrayed to be lazy, criminal (besides the rogues), overly violent, or illiterate, so I'm not sure where you got those ideas from.

[Khorian]

I've never noticed or seen any beasts in the story mode(s) portrayed to be lazy, criminal (besides the rogues), overly violent, or illiterate, so I'm not sure where you got those ideas from.


This is how beasts are viewed by supporting cast members oftentimes. Vivienne displays some of her own ignorance regarding beasts in PSPo. Her foot module gets lodged firmly in her own mouth after she meets Leo, though.

[BIG OLAF]

This is how beasts are viewed by supporting cast members oftentimes. Vivienne displays some of her own ignorance regarding beasts in PSPo.

Yes, but remember who built and programmed Vivienne. The Illuminus: PSU's resident racists. That's how they taught her to think: that every race besides Humans were inferior.


Her foot module gets lodged firmly in her own mouth after she meets Leo, though.


That's because Leo's a badass, haha.

[FOkyasuta]

Well If It Aint So. She Thinks There Scary When They Stare Her Right In The Eye. And I Now That I Think About It... Parum Stands Out More Than The Other Planets...

[DragonForce]

Black people aren't a major race in japan. When making games, racial diversity isn't really considered. White people are the standard with black people scattered here and there to add some variety. That's what I've noticed over the years anyway.

[Ce'Nedra]

If you ask me, beasts only look good with dark skin, i've seen a few light skinned ones but it just doesn't feel right.

Only 2 that i saw were looking good and these were females and small cute loli like beasts.

[BIG OLAF]

If you ask me, beasts only look good with dark skin, i've seen a few light skinned ones but it just doesn't feel right.

Only 2 that i saw were looking good and these were females and small cute loli like beasts.

Yeah, light-skinned beasts look awkward. That's why mine has a nice, rich tan. Err...

Wait! I don't think this is part of the discussion, anyway! Right? ^^;

I just think Sega was trying to make the typical racial cliches when they made PSU. As in, Beasts are African-American, Newmans are Asian, Humans are Caucasian, and CASTs are.....household appliances? I don't know about that one, honestly.

Anyway, maybe Sega did that for a reason; to say something about real-life racial unity.

[TenebriS]

I dont think beast should represent the african americans, more a animal-human breed.
Since most of the Animals don't have such a high IQ and most animals behave rude and do what the feel, i think that is what SEGA wanted to be for the beasts, its not for racism, its more a animal than a human in its behave.

[darkante]

Yeah, i haven´t thought that way about them.
Nice to see, someone bringing this to light.
Even though, i seriously doubt that the black racism is intentional.

Offtopic: Yesh, i also think Beast´s looks best with dark skin. :3

[PekingDuck13]

Mortal Kombat is an American game btw.

[Pirrip]

I don't think that this can necessarily be indicative of prejudice on Japan as a whole. There are dark skinned Japanese, I know, but it's not a large population, and they hail from one particular region.
I like dark skin, though, and I do wish they had more black characters.

P.S. Jax was not made by the Japanese... Mortal Kombat is an American invention. But I share the sentiment, still. Not enough black characters. On the other hand, doesn't Bleach have a black Soul Society captain or something like that? Wearing some sort of glasses or something?

Speaking of cosplay, the best Haseo(from .hack//G.U.) cosplay I've ever seen(and the character is pale skinned, if you don't know him) was black. He must've worked on his cosplay for a loooong time.

[unicorn]

The Japanese are incredibly xenophobic of even whites! We all know they dislike blacks!

Seen the new Pokemon episodes? Theres an apparently black female who swings on vines and keeps Pokemon in her hair.

But Japan is actually getting better, I never seen as many black characters in games/anime as I seen in the last couple years. Are they still stereotypical? Yes....but its a step in the right direction!

I personally think Sazh is an endearing character. =)

[desturel]

-Dee Jay, Super Street Fighter II

Eh, Street Fighter is almost all stereotypes. Singling out DeeJay is a bit unfair:

T. Hawk
El Fuerte
E.Honda
Dhalsim
DeeJay
Elana
Gen
Sakura
Dudley
Birdy
Rufus
Zangief
Vega (claw)

It's definitely not limited to black characters. Stereotypes like Balrog (Boxer) and Fei Long are based off of real people which is why I didn't list them. They certainly don't reach the levels of Cham Cham and TamTam from Samurai Shodown or Rasputin from World of Heroes.

PSU is ever more diverse. None of the races really get pigeon holed outside of casts in their actual in story portrayal. There are the racists humans like Howzer, but there are also the generous humans like Dr. Tomrain. There are dumb beasts like Do Vol, then there are intelligent ones like Laia and Tylor. There are neuman like Rutsu and Hiru Vol, then there are neuman like Karin and Maya.

I wouldn't say you could peg a stereotype on any non-cast race in this game. Liina, Tonnio, and Laia are hot heads, but so is Ethan. Do Vol is an idiot, but so is No Vol and Hiru Vol. Melton's a self important stuck up bitch (when you speak to her as Ethan in the story mode), but so is Rol (the little beast that you work for in Egg Thieves... although I guess she's more of a brat than a bitch in the story mode). Bunami is a ditz, but so is Gapard... well they are both beast ditzes, but you get my point.

[FOkyasuta]

If you ask me, beasts only look good with dark skin, i've seen a few light skinned ones but it just doesn't feel right.

Only 2 that i saw were looking good and these were females and small cute loli like beasts.

Well Mines Isnt And Shes White...

[Max B]

Wow just wow.

[Ce'Nedra]

I dont think beast should represent the african americans, more a animal-human breed.
Since most of the Animals don't have such a high IQ and most animals behave rude and do what the feel, i think that is what SEGA wanted to be for the beasts, its not for racism, its more a animal than a human in its behave.

If you wanna go back that far, i heard (dont know for sure) that newmans were humans mixed with cat dna or something in original PS games? Heard somethign vague like that. Either way newmans are supposed to have the highest IQ, yet their a "animal breed" too if you look at it that way. Not that i'd like to call nedra a "animal breed" ...

Edit: @HUcast Lv.100: Well like i said, i only saw 2 good looking ones in white, i don't say they all look bad, it just feels...not right to see a white skinned beast...though its lesser bad on female beasts.

[FOkyasuta]

Im Confused Now...

[BIG OLAF]

If you wanna go back that far, i heard (dont know for sure) that newmans were humans mixed with cat dna or something in original PS games? Heard somethign vague like that. Either way newmans are supposed to have the highest IQ, yet their a "animal breed" too if you look at it that way.

The Newmans in the original Phantasy Star games aren't the same as the ones in PSU. So, even if they did come from cat DNA in PS I-IV, that's a moot point here.


Not that i'd like to call nedra a "animal breed" ...

Whoever that is, I don't know. But he or she isn't an "animal breed". As for Beasts being "half animal", it's visually correct, but no one knows for certain exactly how Humans "made" the other three races.

[Khorian]

Wow, thread went faster than I had expected.

Many of you make very interesting and valid points, some of which I will attempt to address before I drag my wife into another S rank mission.


Moatoob is the planet closest to Gurhal's sun, which explains the Beast's dark complexion. That's also why it's so hot and barren on most of the planet's surface. If I remember correctly, Beasts were made for the purpose of surviving Moatoob's harsh environment- In the mines. A race of enslaved people working in mines over a period of time spanning generations would ideally cause their skin to be more pale, right?


Yes, but remember who built and programmed Vivienne. The Illuminus: PSU's resident racists. That's how they taught her to think: that every race besides Humans were inferior.
Not sure if I need spoiler tags since the spoil's already there.. I could have sworn that GRM built Viv, and the only part that Illuminus played in her programming was making her record everything and pass it on to them. Her personality truly was her own, if I'm not mistaken.


Black people aren't a major race in japan. When making games, racial diversity isn't really considered. White people are the standard with black people scattered here and there to add some variety. That's what I've noticed over the years anyway. See, I could accept that if there weren't varied, and/or accurate characterizations of Caucasians, Asians, and even Hispanics in most video games and anime today. It seems to either be overt or simply overlooked when portraying blacks in a stereotypical way. In a global society where information is free in most first world countries, game developers, I'd much rather they leave blacks out of their games entirely, or at least attempt to not make us all look like Mr. T with the IQ of Mike Tyson and the reputability of O.J. Simpson.
Why include people of color at all? Because they still apply to the Business Model. If you're going to market even a portion of your media to a minority audience, wouldn't some good, old fashioned market research do the trick?



I don't think that this can necessarily be indicative of prejudice on Japan as a whole. There are dark skinned Japanese, I know, but it's not a large population, and they hail from one particular region.
I like dark skin, though, and I do wish they had more black characters.

P.S. Jax was not made by the Japanese... Mortal Kombat is an American invention. But I share the sentiment, still. Not enough black characters. On the other hand, doesn't Bleach have a black Soul Society captain or something like that? Wearing some sort of glasses or something?

Again, I wouldn't say that the entirety of Japan is prejudice or racist based on their portrayal of blacks in media, however, I mentioned Ganguro and Token blacks in their media, and allow me to clarify my particular issue with these:

The majority of "normal" dark skinned characters tend to be "Ganguro." These are usually darker skinned native japanese and asians, who's distinguishing feature is pure white or blond hair. Tell me, how many Dark Skinned + Dark Haired characters do you find in japanese media? Not many, and of those, the VAST majority apply to the "Token" rule.

The "Token" rule should be self explanatory. A particular minority charachter acting nowhere outside the boundaries of stereotypes, having little or no consequence to the overall plot, and all the while being the ONLY MINORITY CHARACTER.

Also, I know Jax is made by the Chicago-based Midway, but his character is still flawed immensely, being a black person that knows how to hit stuff really hard with his huge rippling muscles and "quirky" urban one-liners.

[bupjo]

so much swirling in my head about this topic. i remember as a kid that when i saw kung-fu movies, those movies were my only visions of chinese people and asian people in general....and japanese always running from radioactive monsters. so i stereotyped them completely. i never had personally known any asian people and my only knowledge of them were movies i've watched. so the same could go for the images black people throw out there that shape other peoples vision of us to other races that have not personally known black people. so i think at times we do a disservice to ourselves by how we portray ourselves in movies, music, etc.

but racism does things to the psyche that unless you have been a target of racism, no one would understand why this topic even exist. when i first played KINGDOM HEARTS on PS2, and saw all the other FF7 characters, i wondered why Barrett wasn't a cameo in the game. first thing i thought...because he is black. then i wondered with all the dark-skinned beasts running around, the major beast characters are light-skinned....me thinking, i guess dark-skin isn't good enough? so racism sometime have you looking for it when it may not even be there. or maybe its there and cleverly hidden. Afro Samurai is the only major black anime character i was like in shock to see. cuz it just so rare to see a major black lead character in anime. but then there are the stereotypes. RAVEN from Tekken i don't think fits any stereotypes that i can think of. life is funny sometimes, i'm black and my RL wife is asian.

[BIG OLAF]

I could have sworn that GRM built Viv, and the only part that Illuminus played in her programming was making her record everything and pass it on to them.

GRM was being secretly run by the Illuminus at the time of Vivienne's production.

[xBULLYDOGG]

Did someone really relate Beasts to an actual human race?

[Khorian]

Did someone really relate Beasts to an actual human race?

Yes. I did. Do you perhaps lack the ability to make metaphorical connections?

[Pirrip]

Wow, thread went faster than I had expected.


Again, I wouldn't say that the entirety of Japan is prejudice or racist based on their portrayal of blacks in media, however, I mentioned Ganguro and Token blacks in their media, and allow me to clarify my particular issue with these:

The majority of "normal" dark skinned characters tend to be "Ganguro." These are usually darker skinned native japanese and asians, who's distinguishing feature is pure white or blond hair. Tell me, how many Dark Skinned + Dark Haired characters do you find in japanese media? Not many, and of those, the VAST majority apply to the "Token" rule.

The "Token" rule should be self explanatory. A particular minority charachter acting nowhere outside the boundaries of stereotypes, having little or no consequence to the overall plot, and all the while being the ONLY MINORITY CHARACTER.

Also, I know Jax is made by the Chicago-based Midway, but his character is still flawed immensely, being a black person that knows how to hit stuff really hard with his huge rippling muscles and "quirky" urban one-liners.

I'm not accusing you, necessarily, of judging Japan as a whole, though I've heard that they can be very prejudiced. A good friend of mine goes to school there(he's black) loves it there and has no qualms with anyone over his complexion.

"Ganguro" isn't natural. Sometimes Ganguro is called "Yamanba" named after the Japanese legend of a dark mountain witch. It's like a white person putting on "Black Face" and it's a not particularly popular(dying out, really) fashion trend that sometimes goes along with a very impoverished lifestyle(yamanba people don't work sometimes, or spend loads of money beyond their means).
That wasn't what I meant when I said that there were dark people in Japan. There are just naturally dark people in Japan, but I don't remember what region they hail from. In Peach Girl, the main character(Momo) is dark and Japanese, but she's not Ganguro. Oh! I think it's Okinawa that you tend to see a lot of dark Japanese people.

I do agree with you... too many Token blacks, and not enough serious characters. Though I have read some good Erotic manga material featuring black and dark characters. XD But that's neither here nor there.

Quirky-urban one liners. XD That's a good way to put it. When there's nothing much beyond them, you tend to severely lean toward token.

[redroses]

If there was secret racism, do you think they would've made Laia president?
Or Tonnio and Leo such great guardians?

Beasts are more grumpy because of their "wild" nature, and dark skinned because they live on the planet moatoob.
I really don't see the racism here.

Also, of course Parum is going to be far ahead on technology when CASTS are running the place.

If the racism in PSU/Japan is worrying you, I wonder how you can sleep at night with all the racism in american movies/games/media.

[Khorian]

If there was secret racism, do you think they would've made Laia president?
Or Tonnio and Leo such great guardians?

Beasts are more grumpy because of their "wild" nature, and dark skinned because they live on the planet moatoob.
I really don't see the racism here.

Also, of course Parum is going to be far ahead on technology when CASTS are running the place.

If the racism in PSU/Japan is worrying you, I wonder how you can sleep at night with all the racism in american movies/games/media.

Thanks, but I think you're missing the point, most likely as a direct result of missing some text I posted later on.

Moatoob-Mines- Extended periods of time underground leads to pale skin, if their race spent most of its time slaving away in the mines, they wouldn't be that dark.

Also, keep in mind that both Laia and Leo are on the lighter spectrum with regards to skin tone, and they both have blond hair.

What I don't want: this thread to spiral downward into semantics.

With regards to racism in American media.... what's new? That's always been there, and probably will never change. But what would cause Japanese media to show such contempt for a race of people it has limited knowledge of? If not contempt, obvious ignorance.

[redroses]

As I am no expert of evolution I do not know if working in the mines for a long time would really make them pale skinned. Because not all the animals that live in mines or the bottom of the ocean are of pale skin color.
And they still lived on moatoob, ate, sleept and more on the surface of the planet I would assume.

But where in the PSU story, except for that background story where are all the races were basically slaved by the humans, are the dark skinned beast that are portrayed in a racist manner?

Maybe Japan just wants to become more open towards dark skinned people. And if they themselves don't know much about them, they might take influence/inspiration from history or america/africa.

[Ce'Nedra]

The Newmans in the original Phantasy Star games aren't the same as the ones in PSU. So, even if they did come from cat DNA in PS I-IV, that's a moot point here.

Whoever that is, I don't know. But he or she isn't an "animal breed". As for Beasts being "half animal", it's visually correct, but no one knows for certain exactly how Humans "made" the other three races.

Well i never really got that far into the stories of these games to know what is true or not, it was just something i heard. I didn't knew they are diffrent in PSU either, they just look the same to i thought they would be exact the same.

Also Nedra is short for my newearl character Ce'Nedra.

[Tetsaru]

Personally, I think Sega's treatment and separation of the PSU regions/servers (a year behind Japan? REALLY?) was more "racist" than any subtleties they actually put into the game, but that's just my view...



-Barret Wallace, Final Fantasy VII
-That one douchebag who's a clone of Barret in the newest FF game.



I personally think Sazh is an endearing character. =)

If you've ever played FF13 in it's entirety, Sazh is a MUCH more likable character than Barret was, especially with the other stereotypical Japanese character types branded onto the rest of the cast. I'll spoiler-box my explanation for those that haven't played the games or aren't interested, lol:

[spoiler-box]
Obviously, Barret looks and acts almost identical to Mr. T from the A-Team. For the most part (unless any of the newer FF7 spinoffs that I haven't played have bastardized it further), his whole motivation was pretty much, "HURR I'M ANGRY AT SHINRA FOR DESTROYING MY HOME WITH THEIR MAKO REACTORS, I'M GOING TO START A GROUP TO OVERTHROW THEM!"

Sazh, although also a bit stereotypical at some points (the baby chocobo living in his fro, his Eidolon transforming into a pimped-out looking car), wasn't near as bad; he often proves as the voice of reason amongst the rest of the angsty or overly confident/cheerful/emo cast, and has a much deeper story. He and his son, Dahj, were on vacation before the events leading up to the Purge where they were separated and Dahj becomes a L'Cie. He later finds out that Vanille was indirectly responsible for this incident (due to Vanille and Fang's attempted attack on the area, the local fal'Cie, Kujata, branded Dahj as a L'Cie, as he was the only human around that could "defend" it) after Jihl Nabaat reveals to him that she captured Dahj to use his new L'Cie powers to track them down. After hearing this news and watching Dahj turn to crystal for completing his Focus (this stress also awakens Sazh's Eidolon, Brynhildr), he then struggles to decide whether or not to kill Vanille, or himself... but brings himself to do neither and continues on to save his son.
[/spoiler-box]

[IITuleII]

Of course beast are the black people. I don't really see too much racism though.


Moatoob is a giant mine, and probably a war zone. The planet was striped of its resources. Beasts where left with that. Drawing parallels to slavery, thats like expecting poor, homeless, and lost slaves to turn slums into Beverly hills. Instead they have to grow up and just get out. Like the beast that make it to other planets, colony. Like Laia, Tonnio and Leo. Even Tylor who still lives on Moatoob is shown to be a good guy, intelligent, strategic, self restrained, and civil. All characters with screen time have unique personalities just like all real life people do. But background fodder is going to be more of a generalization. CASTs are going to be condescending and cold, while beast are going to be brash and strong.

[Lolitron]

Asians are not portrayed accurately/well/often/etc in American media.

[Akaimizu]

Beasts can be seen as many different races that were treated as such. To a degree, the American Indian can be the same. It's the whole, races you want to step on and/or enslave, you start up the propaganda engine and dehumanize them first. Brainwash your people to believe that these are savage beasts that are built of stuff far different from your average human. Push it far enough, people will think while it is inhumane to hurt a dog, cat, or a horse, it is humane to do the same to those people.

The same thing could be said about the Lizard Folk of Elder Scrolls called the Argonians. You might even pick up a scroll written by one who may reveal that this was written by an Argonian and that you're probably now going to burn this script right before you attempt to cleanse your hands of anything that touched Argonian hands. When I read that, I felt a real understanding connection, because I'm just old enough to remember the same kind of impression on folks after I touched something. I could tell the writer must've had the same life experience. It's like the feeling you're some contagious alien that is barely tolerated in this world as long as you stay far away.

This is the level of dehumanizing that happens. It's not unusual in our history of mankind, and Blacks were not the only ones to have this done to. It's just that the recorded cases of what was going on were so prolific and so modern, that as a human society we should've learned better by then. A case where history repeated itself because people chose to ignore or not read about their ugly past.

It's also why I'm very against stuff like Texas trying to alter the books in the education system. Sliding over details of what mistakes were made in the past will make them repeat. It's happened at least half a dozen times already, because the same thing was done, then.

But I like these kind of stories. I think the Beasts thing was pretty nice. While it does tackle racism at its core, it does serve as a reminder, especially for those who sympathise with beasts, that there's a lesson in there, somewhere.

[TheAstarion]

What's more important than Beasts being Space Slaves and Moatoob being Space Africa?

The SEED being Space AIDS.

Where does Space AIDS strike hardest? Moatoob. Space Africa. Men, women, even children aren't safe... And yet we have sympathetic characters like Leo, with a wife and kid, Laia who has a Hispanic surname (together with Sharpie'd eyebrows) and Tonnio (who spends his life trying to get with his white girl sweetheart).

Who in the story are NEVER infected with Space AIDS? Newmans. From Space Japan. Because of their big LSS system, keeping baka gaijins and nasty germs out. Ignoring the corruption in their own COG, too, so it's not a completely one-sided interpretation.

Who in the story are immune to Space AIDS? CASTs. Space Americans. Or so they think, which was for a long time the opinion of straight American males in the 70's, 80's and part of the 90's. But wait, after the independance war, the victorious CASTs just resumed daily life and governed with fairness.

And who in the story, a major character, gets infected with Space AIDS? Hyuga Ryght, the token Space Flamboyant "Womanizer".

I think that's a more important allegory to infer from the story than simple racial slurs that are explored and usually resolved within the story. And the bad guys are usually humans too (Howzer, Helga, Shizuru).

[Lolitron]

Humans - Main protagonists and antagonists are mostly human.
Newmans - Stuck up race of elitist Asians.
Beasts - Impoverished and repressed race (probably symbolizing minorities, mostly African and Hispanic).
Casts - Cast Supremacy AKA elitism and the greatest power in Gurhal (like Americans?...).

These innuendos are obvious but PSU tried to make it into a story about overcoming the racial barriers.

[SolomonGrundy]

ok, if you want to start comparing story elements to the NPC characters, there are a number of inconsistencies across all planets/races.

the Primary NPC team - all light, regardless of race;
Ethan Waber
Karen Erra
Hyuga Ryght
Leogini Berafort
Tonnio Rhima
Laia Martinez
Lou
Fullyen Kurtz
"false-flesh head with bright blue hair"
Bruce Boyd
Luciam Nav
Liina Sukaya (a pale skinned beast, by the way)

Social economically: desert economies tend to be more sparse than temperate economies (though I take your point that the race lives mostl underground).

I don't think I have seen any truly dark skinned races anywhere in Gurhal

As a playchoice, I consider beasts to have premium role: they are the second most played race in the Game (after casts).

Humans, who can be made black are the least played.

None of the races have been characterized as lazy - in fact, all the NPC races can be buffoons (consider the VOl brothers (a newman, a beast, and a human).

I think this is someone being oversensitive. You could easily make the argument that beasts are Persian, or Hispanic with similar logic. I chalk it up to the base storyline being overly complex (typical of japanese storylines), and flawed...and spinoff storylines being a thinly veiled excuse to introduce other play dynamics.

[Akaimizu]

I don't think the distinction is made in skin color in Phantasy Star Universe at all. Don't think the person who started this was thinking on those lines, anyway.

As Play Choice, people min/max anyway.

In WoW, the Night Elves were supposed to be this race, way off to the west, which were not necessarily in huge numbers. The other Elves were recovering from being nearly wiped out. The humans and dwarves took a beating, but survived in numbers. Yet, as players will have it, you'll see a major abundance of people playing races that in story would probably not be so highly populated.

If in FFXIV, someone decided to actually put in Male Mithra, and still said that they're super low in numbers. Yet if they were to come out with stats that made them superior in a great class, everybody in the freakin' world would be playing them. So much for low population of males. We might as well say that Mithra had full recovery and then some.

[Zantra]

I always thought the Beast race was supposed to be Mexican in origin. Doesn't the game say something about them being created specifically for hard labor or something? Plus, their type of clothing styles seem very much like Mexican Tribal garb to me. But, yes... some Japanese people (like all people) are racist. Because, they don't know any better, or just because they can be.

Ok... now my serious answer... It's JUST A GAME!!!

[Justyn_Darkcrest]

To the OP, did you ever stop to think about the fact that you can make any of the races light/darkb skinned?
Honestly think you're just over thinking this.

[FOkyasuta]

^ Hes Got A Point Right There.

[Khorian]

The lot of you have definitely appealed to my logic. I suppose my analysis was a little narrow minded, saying only the beasts correlated to african americans alone. That being said, I should note that as an "african american," I'm multiracial as hell, but with no choice in the matter, my ID card says "BLK." I should note that we are not the only race of people enslaved and stereotyped poorly, but with characters like Barret Wallace and Mr. Popo, the stereotypes are especially scathing. However, a few of you touched on the core of what I was trying to get at.



But background fodder is going to be more of a generalization.


It's precisely this "background fodder" that I worry more about. The generalizations assumed about all people of color and the defaulted prejudices that come with them may not even be overtly racist or discriminatory, but still perpetuated nonetheless. I will concede that this is probably the purpose of the imagery in the first place, at least to raise awareness about it, probably?



I don't think the distinction is made in skin color in Phantasy Star Universe at all. Don't think the person who started this was thinking on those lines, anyway.
Yes, I'm not going to get into what kinds of shades of skin makes each beast what particular race, that's silly, their feral, it's fur. I'm drawing similarities to culture, I suppose.



Ok... now my serious answer... It's JUST A GAME!!!


To the OP, did you ever stop to think about the fact that you can make any of the races light/darkb skinned?
Honestly think you're just over thinking this.

Yes, yes, I know that, but I thought this was an open forum? :p I'll probably be rambling about something silly, attempting to provoke meaningful insight for the purposes of a good, old-fashioned discussion.


Or something like that.

[SolomonGrundy]

Humans - Main protagonists and antagonists are mostly human.
Newmans - Stuck up race of elitist Asians.
Beasts - Impoverished and repressed race (probably symbolizing minorities, mostly African and Hispanic).
Casts - Cast Supremacy AKA elitism and the greatest power in Gurhal (like Americans?...).

These innuendos are obvious but PSU tried to make it into a story about overcoming the racial barriers.

stick to being a lolitron.

[xBULLYDOGG]

Yes. I did. Do you perhaps lack the ability to make metaphorical connections?

No I lack the motivation to care for and read any post that takes up more than half my browsers display. There was a "bigger picture" to the question as well but you can figure that out by yourself.. I hope.

[Khorian]

No I lack the motivation to care for and read any post that takes up more than half my browsers display. There was a "bigger picture" to the question as well but you can figure that out by yourself.. I hope.

I managed to get the "higher meaning" behind your statement, but your question of its relevancy is moot given the responses. Your distaste for the wall of text seems to juxtaposition the fact that you posted a response in the first place. While calling into question the relevancy of my topic, despite the validating responses, you've managed to not elaborate on your opinion. I have at least attempted to put my thoughts into language, if not haphazardly. If your grievance on a message board is that my opening post had too many words, I got bad news for ya brah.....

[SolomonGrundy]

No I lack the motivation to care for and read any post that takes up more than half my browsers display. There was a "bigger picture" to the question as well but you can figure that out by yourself.. I hope.

nah...I'm pretty sure it's the first thing

n,n

[MadDogg]

You have to cut japan a little bit of slack I guess, it isn't like the good ol' u.s.a. where its like a giant bag of skittles because of all the different races and cultures here, japan is mostly just asians. As a black guy myself, I never really got offended of stereotypes from japan because they probably don't know any better, like say Mr. popo from dragonball. For all we know the creator of dragonball probably thought the whole blackface stuff that is seen from loony toons back then was the norm. and was totally acceptable from we african americans, and drew mr. popo based on that even though loony toon cartoons were racist as hell back then lol.

Another thing is the japanese having a lot of blonde haired black guys in games/anime in the 90s. They probably got the idea that it was the norm. for us to get our hair dyed blonde because dennis rodman was crazy popular worldwide in the 90s, and everytime he was on T.V., they probably think "so thats how most african americans probably look/dress". What they see on MTV is pretty much what they gathered about us during the 90s and such. Notice how barret had a box haircut in FF7, pretty much MTV knowledge right there lol.

I actually think its looking up for black representation in japanese games and manga/anime. Even though you still have the occasional big lipped dude (zommari from bleach), you also got the badass designs that are neutral and make you think "damn this guy looks cool" (dutch from black lagoon, youruchi from bleach (to hell with that eastern egyptian indian whatever bull, shes black lol)). Even usopp from one piece is a cool rep. from anime black dudes (word from oda himself, said he would be african in real life terms).

My personall fav. current anime black dude is tousen from bleach. No exaggerated big lips, no blonde hair, just a normal lookin' black dude with cornrolls/dreads lol. So yeah, I'd say japan is doing a good job creating black people in games/anime lately.

[desturel]

I always thought the Beast race was supposed to be Mexican in origin. Doesn't the game say something about them being created specifically for hard labor or something?

Wow! Talking about racist statements, that one is up there with the stuff you hear from the Klan. Congrats. Hopefully you don't honestly think Mexicans were "created specifically for hard labor" or that the Japanese hold the same stereotypes against people that you do.

[bLOODSAW]

Wow! Talking about racist statements, that one is up there with the stuff you hear from the Klan. Congrats. Hopefully you don't honestly think Mexicans were "created specifically for hard labor" or that the Japanese hold the same stereotypes against people that you do.

Acknowledging a stereotype doesn't necessarily mean you buy into it or believe it. Don't jump to conclusions.

[desturel]

Acknowledging a stereotype doesn't necessarily mean you buy into it or believe it. Don't jump to conclusions.

An American stereotype does not apply to Japanese. Japanese stereotypes of Chinese, Koreans and Filipino are different from American stereotypes of the same people. Do you know why? Because we have different interactions with those people and cultures. Trying to stick an American stereotype on a Japanese produced game character is pretty ignorant no matter how you slice it.

Japanese get most of their stereotypes of North Americans from movies and exported culture. Not from direct interaction. This is why you'll notice many Mexicans are displayed a luchadores in Japanese media, since that's one of the larger cultural exports that they receive from that area of the country.

[Khorian]

An American stereotype does not apply to Japanese. Japanese stereotypes of Chinese, Koreans and Filipino are different from American stereotypes of the same people. Do you know why? Because we have different interactions with those people and cultures. Trying to stick an American stereotype on a Japanese produced game character is pretty ignorant no matter how you slice it.

Japanese get most of their stereotypes of North Americans from movies and exported culture. Not from direct interaction. This is why you'll notice many Mexicans are displayed a luchadores in Japanese media, since that's one of the larger cultural exports that they receive from that area of the country.


I remember a Social Sciences teacher once telling me that "ideas" were America's greatest export. Guess those ideas weren't all that good. On a side note, Marijuana's now America's number 1 export. Go figure.

[garjian]

well firstly, only the default male beast is black... not many of the NPC beasts are black... and that kind of invalidates the entire arguement as far as PS goes...

Token blacks are common in american media also... remember the guy in transformers whos only purpose was to state the absolute obvious?
"If thats an alien, that aint friendly." (being attacked by an alien) for example.

i resent the use of the term African American... Not all black people are from Africa. And not all black people live in a cesspool.

[xBULLYDOGG]

too many words
That's not my problem, in fact of which I don't have one. I just can't see any reasoning for the two to be related unless it's that of an opinion.


nah...I'm pretty sure it's the first thing
nah...I'm pretty sure it's not.
If you paid attention to some of my posts in the past you would note that I'm a big, big fan of metaphors.

[SolomonGrundy]

That's not my problem, in fact of which I don't have one. I just can't see any reasoning for the two to be related unless it's that of an opinion.


nah...I'm pretty sure it's not.
If you paid attention to some of my posts in the past you would note that I'm a big, big fan of metaphors.

Apes can read nietche, they just don't understand it
- credit "A fish called wanda"

[Xiled]

Who cares about racism? What a joke it is.

[NoiseHERO]

A back story about enslaving a dark skinned race with "savage" minds. :0

Why are all newmans asian?

Why do all CASTS act like germans :0

Why are all humans perfect white people with asian personalities?

Why do 90% of most anime/manga artist make not only black people but americans in general look as gross and boring as possible...but all of their own characters don't look asian in the slightest?

RACISM RULES THE WORLD AND JAPAN IS NO EXCEPTION!

/evil laugh

[TenebriS]

Why do all CASTS act like germans :0


What exactly is the german acting?^^

[dias_flac_0g]

Lulz, I always saw Moatoob as "Mexico" lmao.

Plus most of the beast in Moatoob arent even that dark. It's ignorant to say that just because someone is tan they are black wtf? lol.

Most beast have a nice brown tan, but I wouldnt call them "black". Not to mention there's even "white" beast (no pun intended) so that's why I always thought if it as "mexico"

Since in Mexico or other latin american countries here's "light" skinned people. Plus Laia Martinez is a beast and she has a light tan and has a spanish name.

Moatoob is also a desert planet and the steriotypical thing is that Mexico is all dirt roads and stuff like that.

Plus Beast have straight hair 90% of the black people (more like 100% really unless they do something to it) have "fro" style hair I dont know how to really explain this without sounding racist but you get the picture lol.

Last but not least Beast seem like hard working people, look at all of our immigrants here in the states they are mostly all hard working people even if they are washing dishes in a Denny's or something.

We all know black people arent all that hard working to begin with soooo...

Anyways, if anything "beast" in psu always seem like a hispanic population more than a black one.

[Tyreek]

We all know black people arent all that hard working to begin with soooo...


A sad stereotype. But thankfully not all are within that ilk. I have to agree with disc_flac however about their habits being more akin to the Hispanic populace. When I think of Beasts and Moatoob, I think of the Western era. Where life was ruled with gangs and violence, and the strongest survive. That and of course quite a lot of Westerns featured White/Latinos, more than anyone else.

[DA_SHIZZLE_IG]

so much swirling in my head about this topic. i remember as a kid that when i saw kung-fu movies, those movies were my only visions of chinese people and asian people in general....and japanese always running from radioactive monsters. so i stereotyped them completely. i never had personally known any asian people and my only knowledge of them were movies i've watched. so the same could go for the images black people throw out there that shape other peoples vision of us to other races that have not personally known black people. so i think at times we do a disservice to ourselves by how we portray ourselves in movies, music, etc.

but racism does things to the psyche that unless you have been a target of racism, no one would understand why this topic even exist. when i first played KINGDOM HEARTS on PS2, and saw all the other FF7 characters, i wondered why Barrett wasn't a cameo in the game. first thing i thought...because he is black. then i wondered with all the dark-skinned beasts running around, the major beast characters are light-skinned....me thinking, i guess dark-skin isn't good enough? so racism sometime have you looking for it when it may not even be there. or maybe its there and cleverly hidden. Afro Samurai is the only major black anime character i was like in shock to see. cuz it just so rare to see a major black lead character in anime. but then there are the stereotypes. RAVEN from Tekken i don't think fits any stereotypes that i can think of. life is funny sometimes, i'm black and my RL wife is asian.
BINGO!! This is why I don't get mad because they are just going off of how we're portrayed by "the media"(if you know what I mean lol). Some are raciest but most just don't know any better. look at how many people wounder why this is even posted or completely missed what is being talked about.

@ the OP

You forgot to mention the african based music for the beast world lol.

[TenebriS]

Most of the music of Moatoob sounds like of a western to me tbh

[DA_SHIZZLE_IG]

Most of the music of Moatoob sounds like of a western to me tbh
No, i'm talking about as soon as you arrive on the planet lol straight up lion king. I quit this game almost 2 years ago but for some reason I still remember that music. The first time I entered motoob I just couldn't help but think "is this africa" lol!! african drums, horns, and exotic african bird and elephant sounds. I felt like a zulu warrior playing in that level lol.

[TenebriS]

It's maybe so, but its only this that sounds so, the rest of the music is mostly western-style to me

[Overlord Zenon]

well if you put it that way neudez sounds and looks like feduel japan, doenst it have that oriental feel to it?

[NoiseHERO]

What exactly is the german acting?^^

They're too proud and srs, yet so inferior D<

[TenebriS]

LOL, this thread people complain about racism, but actually just this people see the racism, and now you start be racistic about others?
Seriously, where will this thread end?
You look for any reason what could be a lil racistic and then shout out loudly lol

It's really sad to see who are actually the racists, only that ones that see it, much people play this game and see it normally, and you see racism.

[Karen Erra]

They're too proud and srs, yet so inferior D<

Sigh... Many germans arent any proud of being german because they know how people react (seeing the past of germany i mean), I dont really know how you can say we are to proud, you maybe not even know a german person -.-

[NoiseHERO]

^ What are you going on about?

We're talking about CAST's not germans. o_O

[TenebriS]

^ What are you going on about?

We're talking about CAST's not germans. o_O

you compared CASTs with germans and told why, you better read your own words too :/

[dias_flac_0g]

About the topic at hand I agree with some of you. I honestly think TC is looking a lil to much into it. In reality there's nothing really racial about Moatoob. Some people are just waaay to sensitve or just want something to complain about.

Plus like I said in my other post. They arent even black so the whole thing about "Moatoob is a lil racist towards black people" doesnt even matter since the people (beast) from Moatoob arent even black to begin with xD

[TenebriS]

About the topic at hand I agree with some of you. I honestly think TC is looking a lil to much into it. In reality there's nothing really racial about Moatoob. Some people are just waaay to sensitve or just want something to complain about.

Plus like I said in my other post. They arent even black so the whole thing about "Moatoob is a lil racist towards black people" doesnt even matter since the people (beast) from Moatoob arent even black to begin with xD

I agree^^

[Tyreek]

Nice way to sum it up. I think its easier to put that they've been in the sun for a while. XD I mean heck, look at Leo, Laia, Tonnio, Tylor, even Do Vol. They'er not black. LOL

[TenebriS]

uhm tonnio isnt black in your eyes? ^^
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1198&pictureid=14830[/SPOILER-BOX]

[BIG OLAF]

uhm tonnio isnt black in your eyes? ^^

Tonnio's skin color is more of a deep red to me, perhaps resembling a Native-American. I don't see any Beast story characters as "black skinned".

[xBULLYDOGG]

Apes can read nietche, they just don't understand it
- credit "A fish called wanda"

I know you're trying to pin that quote on me so let me remind you that you're missing my main point, again, as you always do.

[SolomonGrundy]

uhm tonnio isnt black in your eyes? ^^
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1198&pictureid=14830[/SPOILER-BOX]

not to my eyes, no.

[dias_flac_0g]

Nice way to sum it up. I think its easier to put that they've been in the sun for a while. XD I mean heck, look at Leo, Laia, Tonnio, Tylor, even Do Vol. They'er not black. LOL

Exactly.

They dont look black at all.

Though in my eyes Moatoob natives seem more like hispanics/latinos than african americans or africans in general. I'ma say this, i'm almost sure that Sega wasnt going for a "certain" race for the beasts in Moatoob. Moatoob is a hot desert type of planet it's only natural that the beasts who live in moatoob are a lil tan :)

Seriously what's so racist about that? The fact that they were "slaves" was just because it "suits" them and they weren't the only ones who the humans wanted to enslave. The Humans hated every other race not just the beast race.

I do however agree that the races in PSU do have some similarities to those of the real world. For example Neumans are "asian" and the GC could like the US since it has a mixture of every race Moatoob being the "mexican" planet for the reasons mention before. If anything Cast is the black race seeing as they are the "proud" ones and such which can lead to like black power and such.

It's funny cuz not to long ago I was talking to one of my friends and we were messing around talking about the "races" in psu and that's how we came up with them all.

The GC is like the US but in a more friendly way since everyone is welcome there. The US preaches the same thing but it does not really do it seeing as we have many different races in the US however we have a TON of racism here were people arent really welcome.

[dias_flac_0g]

uhm tonnio isnt black in your eyes? ^^
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1198&pictureid=14830[/SPOILER-BOX]

Tonio looks nothing black lol Not even his facial features are "african" lol.

Liina looks black to me tho...

On a serious note she looks cute in that pic hahaha ^_^

[Powder Keg]

lol @ this thread

[BIG OLAF]

lol @ this thread

I'm starting to feel the same way. To be honest, I'm not sure how this thread even got to two pages without the mods locking it. Threads that involve touchy subjects, such as race, usually get shut down fairly fast to avoid a massive flame war.

[dias_flac_0g]

Hey Big Oath, you never actually hit me up to play together like you wanted too hahaha xD

Sorry for the off topic post. But then again the thread got a lil "lol" already seeing as there's no real racist issue here to begin with lol.

[BIG OLAF]

Hey Big Oath, you never actually hit me up to play together like you wanted too hahaha xD

Sorry for the off topic post. But then again the thread got a lil "lol" already seeing as there's no real racist issue here to begin with lol.

Oh, yeah! That totally slipped my mind. I've been fairly busy these past few weeks, and I just had a very draining (mentally and physically) Labor Day weekend. I apologize.

[NoiseHERO]

you compared CASTs with germans and told why, you better read your own words too :/

Oh my god,

I did not HIT HER SHE'S LYING. I DID NOT HIT HER!

[Angelo]

Beasts are Central/South Americans with heavy influence from native 'indian' tribes of Central America. The music, clothes, surnames, skin tone, and cactus didn't tip you off? Look at the weapons. Look at Yuto's clothes. Seriously. The beasts are said to value family over everything else, and are labor class citizens, but not outright slaves. The criminals are notorious for smuggling. These are stereotypes of Central/South Americans. Even the Casino Voloyal is based on the stereotype that indigenous Americans or 'indians' run casinos.

Look at the weapons: http://psp2.psupedia.info/images/0/01/Ank_Kakka.png
http://psp2.psupedia.info/images/e/e0/Ank_Las_Dauras.png

These are based on Central American and Aztec culture.

Even the most basic weapon design for the basic saber is based on the Machete
http://psp2.psupedia.info/File:Al_Sevara.png

However, this is a fun sci-fi game. These are not necessarily harmful stereotypes. The Beasts are not seen as a negative race. Even Laia Martinez was the president of the Guardians. Everything is seen in a stylized light. It's all in good fun.

[TenebriS]

Yuto is a newman from Neudaiz

[Angelo]

Yuto is a newman from Neudaiz

No, he's a Newman raised by a secluded tribe on Moatoob. But look, you've gone and made me give spoilers!

[SolomonGrundy]

Beasts are Central/South Americans with heavy influence from native 'indian' tribes of Central America. The music, clothes, surnames, skin tone, and cactus didn't tip you off? Look at the weapons. Look at Yuto's clothes. Seriously. The beasts are said to value family over everything else, and are labor class citizens, but not outright slaves. The criminals are notorious for smuggling. These are stereotypes of Central/South Americans. Even the Casino Voloyal is based on the stereotype that indigenous Americans or 'indians' run casinos.

Look at the weapons: http://psp2.psupedia.info/images/0/01/Ank_Kakka.png
http://psp2.psupedia.info/images/e/e0/Ank_Las_Dauras.png

These are based on Central American and Aztec culture.

Even the most basic weapon design for the basic saber is based on the Machete
http://psp2.psupedia.info/File:Al_Sevara.png

However, this is a fun sci-fi game. These are not necessarily harmful stereotypes. The Beasts are not seen as a negative race. Even Laia Martinez was the president of the Guardians. Everything is seen in a stylized light. It's all in good fun.

Finally someone with knowledge.
+1 Angelo

[Tetsaru]

I'd just like to point out something:

I've noticed that, at least where I'm from, a lot of people these days seem to link slavery to the old practice in the Civil War era US, i.e. "white people enslaving black people," but the practice of slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery) has been around since the days of ancient Greece and Egypt, and has been used all over the world in different cultures and different names: slavery, bondage, serfdom, human trafficking, etc. And even today, according to that article, although most countries in the world outlaw slavery, it is still practiced, and forced prostitution is said to be one of the fastest growing organized crime industries and may even outgrow drug trafficking.

Slavery in and of itself isn't necessarily a racist act, despite often having prejudicial motives behind it, and being generally regarded as an immoral practice nowadays.

[dias_flac_0g]

Yea thanks Angelo, I kept calling them "Mexican" only because people in the states think that anyone who speaks spanish is "mexican" not that they actually speak spanish but Laia has a spanish name xD

But yes if anything, they are based of on what you said and not actual african american.

I also agree that beasts arent seen as a negative race. Leo is a really good guardian and Laia is the president of them all.

[Tyreek]

No, he's a Newman raised by a secluded tribe on Moatoob. But look, you've gone and made me give spoilers!

He also explains to Emilia that he's half Beast in one scene. And if that doesn't tip you off, look deeply at his eyes.

[Angelo]

I also agree that beasts arent seen as a negative race. Leo is a really good guardian and Laia is the president of them all.

Exactly. I don't see why someone would try to pull out a racist overtone in a game with a storyline that focuses so heavily on different races with drastically different cultures working together for the common good and where the main villain pulling the strings behind many of the sinister events in the game was a racist fundamentalist Howzer, for those of you that didn't play PSP1.

I didn't know that about Yuto, that's pretty awesome. I'm really not into roleplaying or anything but I once wrote a backstory for my character who is half Beast, half Human. Cool to see something like this in the game..

[Zantra]

He's just looking to stir up trouble. Sound out his user name Kho-ri-an. Korean. He's obsessed with race.

[Khorian]

He's just looking to stir up trouble. Sound out his user name Kho-ri-an. Korean. He's obsessed with race.


I resent that. I'm neither obsessed with race, Korean, nor looking to stir up trouble.
Okay, I don't resent not being Korean- I hear they'll have a robot city by 2013
A few of my close friends are PS fans including my wife, and we joke about the subject regularly. This discussion is the result of one of us pointing out that the old HUnewearls would be defaulted as dark skinned. We contrasted the change to the introduction of beasts in PSU. In any case this topic has gone on longer than I expected, as I thought the core discussion, or at least my change in views regarding the beasts were pointed out quite clearly around pages 4-5.

Also, many of you seem to have missed my overall point, which is about the representation of racial archetypes and their links to underlying stereotypical thoughts. At least, that's what I was digging at.

[lostinseganet]

A beast became president before Obama did ya know :)