What would you like to see in pso2?

[Anduril]

Why not ask for a sewer level too while you're at it?
You know what, why not? Or even a level where the living walls are actively trying to kill you when you approach them! The skys the limit! Hell, make it so that even the sky isn't the limit! When you jump you just keep going into space!

It's what I would like to see, not what I expect to see.

[RemiusTA]

I know what im talking about

You really don't. These arguments have been going on way too long.

[ARChan]

You know what, why not? Or even a level where the living walls are actively trying to kill you when you approach them! The skys the limit! Hell, make it so that even the sky isn't the limit! When you jump you just keep going into space!

It's what I would like to see, not what I expect to see.

Why not more effective traps to make the use of Trap Vision more of a need? For instance, 1-hit KO traps (Well... maybe not), pitfall traps that forces your team to split, teleportation traps that sends you to some separated room and forces you to solo rooms to meet up with the other players, or more elemental traps (traps that use grants, megid, and jellen&zalure). Getting into this topic makes me wonder what kind of traps Androids can use. Confuse, damage, and freeze traps are usually a nice start.

Better yet, what if the different classes of Androids can use different traps? For instance, FOcast/caseal (I hope not) use recovery and elemental traps, RAcast/caseal use serrogate gun and freeze traps, and HUcast/caseal use damage traps and confuse traps. Thoughts? :P

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Trap Vision was kind of silly. I think the Goggles in PSU handled that mechanic much better.

[ARChan]

Hmm... How about a unit that allows the trap vision for a set time instead of distance from initiation point? That's what bugged me in PSO. And I don't know the goggles you're talking about XD (not a PSU player)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You just had goggles you could toggle on and off in first person view that would let you see traps and other hidden/secret things.

[ARChan]

Oh. That sounds more awesome than my idea XD I'll stick with the PSU idea then. However, my issue about that is... uh... you watched the gameplay vid, right? It's a third-person function for shooting. How's that going to work? Hmm... Maybe a first-person function for the goggles?

[NoiseHERO]

I liked how cast could see traps automatically.

[Tetsaru]

I think it'd be neat if Casts could get night vision, infrared, and/or x-ray vision, similar to some of the visors from the Metroid Prime series. Could open up some cool practical gameplay aspects, such as being able to see in those pitch-black rooms, detecting cloaked/camouflaged enemies, or finding fake walls.

As for trap detection, I'd stick with the goggles and ditch the Trap Vision items, although certain equipment (like Rico's Glasses) could also allow for detecting them, or possibly the aforementioned Cast visions. That, or if there was another Protranser-type class, give them some sort of trap detection, or even manipulate them in some way, like disarming them and adding them to your inventory rather than just blowing them up.

[RemiusTA]

PSU goggles could have handled many things better, but they were so annoying and tedious that i wish they just never included them into the damn game. I'd quick-menu a Trap Vision eons before using that wonky FPS in PSU.

If the goggles return, lets hope they put some REAL function to them in this game, like enemy data and shit. No more little ugly green circles to slash at.

And ^ ^ ^ that would be pretty hawt, i think casts need some kind of cool functions, especially if they're going to be deprived of Techniques again. (which they should be.)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Man, special racial traits like that are dumb. I don't want not to be able to see traps just because I didn't want to look like a giant toaster.

If they go the way of a persistent trap vision like Casts had in PSO, here's hoping it's some GAS-style customization anyone can use, instead of a racial ability.

[Vashyron]

Man, special racial traits like that are dumb. I don't want not to be able to see traps just because I didn't want to look like a giant toaster.

If they go the way of a persistent trap vision like Casts had in PSO, here's hoping it's some GAS-style customization anyone can use, instead of a racial ability.


Seriously agree with this.

No reason something like that would need to be a race trait for casts anyway, not like flesh characters can't have "invisible" goggles like PSU.

[Tetsaru]

Man, special racial traits like that are dumb. I don't want not to be able to see traps just because I didn't want to look like a giant toaster.

If they go the way of a persistent trap vision like Casts had in PSO, here's hoping it's some GAS-style customization anyone can use, instead of a racial ability.

Or you could, y'know... *GASP!* cooperate with other people in parties who ARE Casts to help spot things for you and not always do everything yourself...

While I'm all for customization, I think some gameplay aspects should stay unique to specific races or classes. I mean, this is an online (implying multiple people playing together) role-playing (implying characters who can do completely different things) game...

[Corey Blue]

Or you could, y'know... *GASP!* cooperate with other people in parties who ARE Casts to help spot things for you and not always do everything yourself...

While I'm all for customization, I think some gameplay aspects should stay unique to specific races or classes. I mean, this is an online (implying multiple people playing together) role-playing (implying characters who can do completely different things) game...

I agree with this.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I know I'm in the minority on this, but race (and sex) should be a purely cosmetic choice.

I don't think my gameplay options should be limited in any way because I wanted to have pointy ears instead of being a walking refrigerator.

[Ark22]

Walking refrigerator with guns my friend

[Vashyron]

And again agreed, I don't want to have certain aspects to a race that I like, but I really don't like their looks.

I ended up having a Cast main in PSU (Western) only because of their SUV and better stats than Humans. It made me choose either looks or race specials.

I went with the race specialty in the end, but I seriously didn't like 95% of Male cast parts.

[Tetsaru]

And again agreed, I don't want to have certain aspects to a race that I like, but I really don't like their looks.

I ended up having a Cast main in PSU (Western) only because of their SUV and better stats than Humans. It made me choose either looks or race specials.

I went with the race specialty in the end, but I seriously didn't like 95% of Male cast parts.

I think as long as there are enough extensive customization options in-game (like something on the scale of White Knight Chronicle's character creation options), this won't be a problem. Either that, or (and I know this is a longshot) allow for user-made costumes/tattoos/etc. Games like LittleBigPlanet and ModNation Racers were big on this, although I suspect this would involve a lot of game development time to incorporate into a game like PSO2.

[Niloklives]

I think traps, partial status immunity and trap vision were valid counterpoints to having no access to techs. besides, logically why should an android be susceptible to poison and paralysis?

CASTS DON'T HAVE INTERNAL ORGANIC ORGANS. </PSA>

...no but seriously I think casts should either only have access to support techs or none at all. iirc, in traditional PS games(I'm 99% sure about this for PSIV), cyborgs/androids couldn't even be affected by techs like resta, they had to use self-repair skills or repair kits. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to use techs or be affected by them, but I like the idea of racial limitations/bonuses. I mean what's the point in 4 races and 3 classes when the races are just different skins?

I think SUVs and Nanos were a bit much. ridiculously powerful and made any perception of balance between races mere fantasy. Mirage blasts were nice, and I never did the math, but I never felt that they really lived up to what SUVs and Nanos did.

I think some passive abilities like...Casts not needing goggles(even though everyone else can still use them) and/or having increased trap capacities would be good. or, just give them status immunity. maybe beasts can be more agile(longer dodge rolls and jumps) and newmans can have slightly increased movement speed over others while humans had a minor increase in how fast their meters filled or maybe didn't need quite as much exp(or job exp) to level up. qualities like that would make each race a little different and make you feel like you're not just getting the same character everyone else is. and you could pick a race based on qualities you felt added to your experience without feeling you got totally boned by not having some instant win button.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I mean what's the point in 4 races and 3 classes when the races are just different skins?The different skins.


Start everybody off at the same place, and then let them go hog wild with customizing every aspect of their character.

[eclipsXe]

Man, special racial traits like that are dumb. I don't want not to be able to see traps just because I didn't want to look like a giant toaster.

If they go the way of a persistent trap vision like Casts had in PSO, here's hoping it's some GAS-style customization anyone can use, instead of a racial ability.

I agree but then again atleast we got to get rid of those stupid trap visions while a cast would accidentally have a whole bunch of them sitting in his inventory >.> or maybe that was just me.

[RenzokukenZ]

The different skins.


Start everybody off at the same place, and then let them go hog wild with customizing every aspect of their character.

If it were a single-player RPG, sure. But its not, so no.

[Getsuga]

Main thing I want is different fighting styles for melee weapons, ones that don't do anything but change your animations. KOTOR II I think it was had this, and it was awesome when the way I fought completely changed, even if it statistically didn't do jack.

Also rooting for even more diverse character customization and 6-Player parties.

[Niloklives]

yeah having different ways to swing/hold/fire weapons would be fun. You'd feel more unique til you found out that 90% of the player base had the same taste as you.

...Would still be fun though.

[Niloklives]

The different skins.


Start everybody off at the same place, and then let them go hog wild with customizing every aspect of their character.

You do start off at the same place. it's called the main screen. you log in, create your character and away you go; off into your own world where the character you create is yours and yours alone til you find out everyone is just like you.

In all seriousness, race should always be a factor, especially in a sci-fi/fantasy setting. You don't pick the robot cause he's shiny. You pick the robot cause of the shiny things he can use.

ok well some of us pick him cause he's shiny.

[NoiseHERO]

I actually find it doesn't make sense that casts had like 234234 visors and robotic eyes and COULDN'T see traps automatically...

But Nb4 that's hit with the video games shouldn't be realistic argument.

besides I'd say they barely deserved it, being ripped off for not being able to use techs and all...

But I didn't play much into PSO, so I dunno how they balanced that out. >_>;;

[Seth Astra]

I think traps, partial status immunity and trap vision were valid counterpoints to having no access to techs. besides, logically why should an android be susceptible to poison and paralysis?

CASTS DON'T HAVE INTERNAL ORGANIC ORGANS. </PSA>

...no but seriously I think casts should either only have access to support techs or none at all. iirc, in traditional PS games(I'm 99% sure about this for PSIV), cyborgs/androids couldn't even be affected by techs like resta, they had to use self-repair skills or repair kits. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to use techs or be affected by them, but I like the idea of racial limitations/bonuses. I mean what's the point in 4 races and 3 classes when the races are just different skins?

I think SUVs and Nanos were a bit much. ridiculously powerful and made any perception of balance between races mere fantasy. Mirage blasts were nice, and I never did the math, but I never felt that they really lived up to what SUVs and Nanos did.

I think some passive abilities like...Casts not needing goggles(even though everyone else can still use them) and/or having increased trap capacities would be good. or, just give them status immunity. maybe beasts can be more agile(longer dodge rolls and jumps) and newmans can have slightly increased movement speed over others while humans had a minor increase in how fast their meters filled or maybe didn't need quite as much exp(or job exp) to level up. qualities like that would make each race a little different and make you feel like you're not just getting the same character everyone else is. and you could pick a race based on qualities you felt added to your experience without feeling you got totally boned by not having some instant win button.
Personally, I'm kinda against giving casts support techs only because, well, they're about the only ones that are any good for a non-force, even as a newman. So not having the ability to do pathetic damage with techs is obviously not much of a downside.

[Vashyron]

If racial differences are in again. (Which I'm 90% sure)

I wouldn't mind it if you could at least look like the other races, except for Ears and or Face. What hugely annoyed me in PSU was that if I chose a Male Cast because of their stats, I could never have the fleshy clothing. Would of been fine if all Male Cast parts weren't just different ways on how to look like a BOX. (In my opinion of course.)

[Niloklives]

I actually find it doesn't make sense that casts had like 234234 visors and robotic eyes and COULDN'T see traps automatically...

But Nb4 that's hit with the video games shouldn't be realistic argument.

besides I'd say they barely deserved it, being ripped off for not being able to use techs and all...

But I didn't play much into PSO, so I dunno how they balanced that out. >_>;;

Absurd HP and defense. My RAcaseal could do ult forest in hand to hand combat with no armor or shield and took almost no damage even from Hildelts. Of course this meant nothing since you could lvl 80 S/D the party and everyone was invincible.


If racial differences are in again. (Which I'm 90% sure)

I wouldn't mind it if you could at least look like the other races, except for Ears and or Face. What hugely annoyed me in PSU was that if I chose a Male Cast because of their stats, I could never have the fleshy clothing. Would of been fine if all Male Cast parts weren't just different ways on how to look like a BOX. (In my opinion of course.)


Yeah that was my least favorite part about casts in PSU. I couldn't find any way to make the look good unless I wanted some dopey Gundam/Power ranger ripoff


Personally, I'm kinda against giving casts support techs only because, well, they're about the only ones that are any good for a non-force, even as a newman. So not having the ability to do pathetic damage with techs is obviously not much of a downside.

Honestly it was just my way of giving casts something...they could be limited to lvl 10 support techs for all i care. but honestly I'd rather they not have the option. I like my other idea about each race having minor defining characteristics outside of stats and casts not being able to use techs at all

[NoiseHERO]

If racial differences are in again. (Which I'm 90% sure)

I wouldn't mind it if you could at least look like the other races, except for Ears and or Face. What hugely annoyed me in PSU was that if I chose a Male Cast because of their stats, I could never have the fleshy clothing. Would of been fine if all Male Cast parts weren't just different ways on how to look like a BOX. (In my opinion of course.)

This...

I can die happy the day I can make a cast in a business suit...but with a robo head of course.

(seeing as how that's what one of my original characters looks like)

Though I guess the butler suit would be close enough...

[RenzokukenZ]

But Nb4 that's hit with the video games shouldn't be realistic argument.


You don't remember the physics and spine arguments?

[Blueblur]

The different skins.


Start everybody off at the same place, and then let them go hog wild with customizing every aspect of their character.
Ugh, do not want.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I still don't understand why people think that would be a bad idea.

[Wayu]

^

I'm not sure what you meant by that quote that everyone's disagreeing with. Can you elaborate?

-Wayu

[RenzokukenZ]

Its called wanting to be different than everyone else and contribute differently.

Again, that would work with a single-player game, where its just me, myself, and I having to crawl through these dungeons. But in a multiplayer game like this, you'll need a diverse group to get through most of the challenges, and having each race have perks exclusive to them helps with the diversity. PSO did this, PSU did this, many games before and after did this.

Sounds like you just want everyone to play Human.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Its called wanting to be different than everyone else and contribute differently.Hence the very deep and very balanced customization system.

[Wayu]

I was referring to Fuzzy and his quote.


Start everybody off at the same place, and then let them go hog wild with customizing every aspect of their character.

Not sure what that means.

-Wayu

[RenzokukenZ]

That's based on class. What you want is the demolishing of racial traits.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I don't see why those traits have to be linked to a cosmetic decision instead of being lumped into a customization system along with everything else.

[Pillan]

I do have to agree with Ffuzzy. If they were to remove the racial and sexual traits, the game would become far easier to balance and you would see more people choosing a race for an aesthetic purpose. For instance, I am sure there are a lot of people who would love to play Newman that do not in PSU/PSP2 because technique damage is so low and they are so weak when using anything else.

However, such a system would be rather boring since everyone who has ever played an RPG in the past has come to expect a certain degree of customization. The alternative would be to make a system where you choose your base stats and abilities at the beginning (i.e., lower your TP to 30% for High HP, ATP, DFP, and ATA and trap vision and DoT immunity to make the old Cast), but that is just as painful to balance as PSO's system and even harder to program.

But I could see no reason to complain about the removal of racial differences. That really only means I won't need to mark my parties "Cast-only" when everyone figures out that melee still does the most damage, there is a blast with higher than max level Shifta and Deband, and Casts stats are still the most ideal for melee. Fortunately, I like the way Casts look so it is not much of an issue for me.

EDIT:

Oh, before this escalates into some sort of racial battle, my previous statement about "Cast-only" was meant to be more sarcastic. If there are racial differences and those are the standard expectation (which they most likely will be), the most efficient way to clear a stage will be a team of all melee/range hybrid Casts as it always has been in any game where Cast has free access to some form of Shifta and Deband. And the interface images already show something that I suspect is Shiftaride and Debandride, so there is no real need to worry about that.

Point being that if they killed racial differences, the above statements would not always be true.

[Wayu]

If racial differences were removed, you might as well have one race.

-Wayu

[r00tabaga]

I want customization, but not too much! That's when you start seeing bikinis, hoodies & jeans, Rappy suits & bath towels......no thx, not in my PSO!!!

[RenzokukenZ]

Newmans were actually good in PSP2, thanks to their racial differences. Techs and the Force class in general are the ones that sucked and were promptly avoided.

That being said, racial differences make the characters unique. Sure SUVs and such overpowered some overpowered some of the races in PSU, but this was evenly fixed in PSP2I. Not to mention that these perks didn't hurt the race in any way.

[Pillan]

Oh, my point is not really a balance issue. My point is more a value issue. In a perfectly balanced game, melee damage will do more than ranged damage and range damage will be about equal to tech damage. And in a perfectly balanced game that performs to the standard expectations of racial stats, Cast will have the highest ATP and the highest ATA, assuming Beasts do not exist. And even if Beasts exist, there will still be high EVP enemies that make Beasts cry.

So even in a perfectly balanced game, a team of HUcast/caseals and RAcast/caseals will still be more ideal just because it is the fastest way to clear a stage. Yes you can argue that Newman evasion is useful when the enemy has high accuracy and knockdown, but how often does that happen and how easy is it to block? My simple point is that the existence of a racial difference makes the optimal team one of people who are experienced with previous games and playing Cast.

If you are fine with that point, then obviously my argument has no merit. But I see it as a good reason to do away with racial differences entirely and just use them for looks and role play purposes.

[RenzokukenZ]

I'll just take that as a min/maxer's perspective.

[Wayu]

Oh, my point is not really a balance issue. My point is more a value issue. In a perfectly balanced game, melee damage will do more than ranged damage and range damage will be about equal to tech damage. And in a perfectly balanced game that performs to the standard expectations of racial stats, Cast will have the highest ATP and the highest ATA, assuming Beasts do not exist. And even if Beasts exist, there will still be high EVP enemies that make Beasts cry.

So even in a perfectly balanced game, a team of HUcast/caseals and RAcast/caseals will still be more ideal just because it is the fastest way to clear a stage. Yes you can argue that Newman evasion is useful when the enemy has high accuracy and knockdown, but how often does that happen and how easy is it to block? My simple point is that the existence of a racial difference makes the optimal team one of people who are experienced with previous games and playing Cast.

If you are fine with that point, then obviously my argument has no merit. But I see it as a good reason to do away with racial differences entirely and just use them for looks and role play purposes.

It sounds like you just want one race - CASTs. I might be wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

If so, go play Gundam.

-Wayu

[Pillan]

I suppose you could say I am arguing for the game to essentially be reduced down to one race that can look like all four of the standard races. But, at the same time, I am arguing against the usual munchkinization of statistics to reduce the game down to one race, two classes, and two weapons (E.g., Cast, Hunter/Vanguard, twin saber/twin handgun).

I suppose I can do the raceless argument, if that will help. There will be some mix of enemies that can be hit by short-range and long-range attacks. Short-range attacks will do the most damage because they require you to be at a position where you can be hit by the enemy and most enemies will allow you to easily enter short range. Long-range will cover everything else. Defensive stats can be offset by blocking, roll dodging, and knocking the enemy into the air (then jumping and doing an air combo now, I might add), so any merit a race would have based on defense will be fairly negligible compared to a pure damage advantage. So, in the end, the elitist players will want a team that focuses on maximizing short range and long range damage, with priority on short range.

And we all know what race traditionally does that.

Similarly, they could go the other way. Lower Force HP to the point that it takes one hit to kill them and then increase tech damage (and decrease tech PP drain) to the point that the Force kills/time is higher than any other class’. In this case, the race that has the highest TP stat becomes the ideal and the elitist would want a team that focuses on maximizing that. The other example was just the “usual/expected way things turn out” example.

The general point is that there will always be one “best” race when you define “best” as “the one that clears the mission the fastest.” The only way to remove that is to abolish racial differences. And if that is still acceptable, I have nothing left to argue.

[NoiseHERO]

I want customization, but not too much! That's when you start seeing bikinis, hoodies & jeans, Rappy suits & bath towels......no thx, not in my PSO!!!

Yeah, not in YOUR PSO. :\

But in MY PSO2, I'd rather everyone be able to wear what they want.

edit:

Also @ general: we don't have enough information about classes or races... we've only see like 2 different weapons.
It makes me even more skeptical but what I haven't realized till I was talking to my friend about what classes we were gonna play among multiple characters. Theres like absolutely no info to be able to decide...let alone argue about how it's going to be...

Otherwise...
CUSTOMIZATION
CUSTOMIZATION
CUSTOMIZATION
CUSTOMIZATION

[RenzokukenZ]

I suppose you could say I am arguing for the game to essentially be reduced down to one race that can look like all four of the standard races. But, at the same time, I am arguing against the usual munchkinization of statistics to reduce the game down to one race, two classes, and two weapons (E.g., Cast, Hunter/Vanguard, twin saber/twin handgun).

I suppose I can do the raceless argument, if that will help. There will be some mix of enemies that can be hit by short-range and long-range attacks. Short-range attacks will do the most damage because they require you to be at a position where you can be hit by the enemy and most enemies will allow you to easily enter short range. Long-range will cover everything else. Defensive stats can be offset by blocking, roll dodging, and knocking the enemy into the air (then jumping and doing an air combo now, I might add), so any merit a race would have based on defense will be fairly negligible compared to a pure damage advantage. So, in the end, the elitist players will want a team that focuses on maximizing short range and long range damage, with priority on short range.

And we all know what race traditionally does that.

Similarly, they could go the other way. Lower Force HP to the point that it takes one hit to kill them and then increase tech damage (and decrease tech PP drain) to the point that the Force kills/time is higher than any other class’. In this case, the race that has the highest TP stat becomes the ideal and the elitist would want a team that focuses on maximizing that. The other example was just the “usual/expected way things turn out” example.

The general point is that there will always be one “best” race when you define “best” as “the one that clears the mission the fastest.” The only way to remove that is to abolish racial differences. And if that is still acceptable, I have nothing left to argue.

Again, min/max elitist perspective.

Some of us choose without considering the 'best' and go with what we like, see where that race excels at, and play.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I want customization, but not too much! That's when you start seeing bikinis, hoodies & jeans, Rappy suits & bath towels......no thx, not in my PSO!!!I'm sorry that the aesthetic customization decisions of other players ruin the whole game for you. That has to be really inconvenient.
That being said, racial differences make the characters unique.What if I really liked pointy ears and also really liked SUV weapons? Why shouldn't I be able to have both?

Replace this:

Step 1: Choose what you want to look like AND what special ability you want, as long as both of them match up.

with this:

Step 1: Choose what you want to look like.
Step 2: Choose a special ability.

[RenzokukenZ]

What if I really liked pointy ears and also really liked SUV weapons? Why shouldn't I be able to have both?


http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1540&pictureid=19680

Problem solved.

[ShinMaruku]

If racial differences were removed, you might as well have one race.

-Wayu

Well aside from the Casts (And given they eat even that's debatable) they are all human anyway. :P

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Sorry, should have said pointy ears not made of metal.

[Mugaaz2]

All I want is no hacking, no duping, no cheating. Really, that's about it.

This game and others like it are completely and utterly ruined once items lose value. There is some stuff I'd prefer one way or another (PSP systems vs PSO), but honestly I care less about it in the face of the more important issues.

Basically every version of PSO/PSP has been harmed if not ruined by cheating and duping. It would be amazing if they could make one that wasn't for a change.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Considering this is SEGA, expect a completely unsecured server architecture, covered only by GameGuard.

It's sad, really, considering how easy it would be to fix.

[ShinMaruku]

All I want is no hacking, no duping, no cheating. Really, that's about it.

This game and others like it are completely and utterly ruined once items lose value. There is some stuff I'd prefer one way or another (PSP systems vs PSO), but honestly I care less about it in the face of the more important issues.

Basically every version of PSO/PSP has been harmed if not ruined by cheating and duping. It would be amazing if they could make one that wasn't for a change.
You play a game with human beings. The human race was always about subverting rules to their advantage. :P

[RemiusTA]

Hence the very deep and very balanced customization system.


The racial traits give more of a varied edge to the gameplay. It's not the same as if everyone was literally identical with only chosen differences. Things like that make including teamwork into the gameplay way easier to implement. It also makes assigning weaknesses much easier. If you want to experience the game a different way, create a different class. There's nothing wrong with the system from a design standpoint i think.

As for racial differences, i really dont see ANY reason to not include them, as they only make the game more interesting to play. Honestly, in my opinion, making them customization choices could potentially do more harm than good. If they thoroughly balance the class weapon selection and abilities, there shouldn't really be any issue with getting bored with them. And as you increase in level, there's always the possibility of weapon types with varied stat requirements / race / sex restrictions.

I.E., PSO's Elysion. Or something.

[NoiseHERO]

You play a game with human beings. The human race was always about subverting rules to their advantage. :P

If they didn't, we wouldn't have PSO2.

Humans playing god, making their own world...pfft.

[RemiusTA]

Considering this is SEGA, expect a completely unsecured server architecture, covered only by GameGuard.

It's sad, really, considering how easy it would be to fix.

It's....actually not very easy at all.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

As for racial differences, i really dont see ANY reason to not include them, as they only make the game more interesting to play. Honestly, in my opinion, making them customization choices could potentially do more harm than good. If they thoroughly balance the class weapon selection and abilities, there shouldn't really be any issue with getting bored with them. And as you increase in level, there's always the possibility of weapon types with varied stat requirements / race / sex restrictions.

I.E., PSO's Elysion. Or something.Restrictions are boring and not fun. By making what would have been racial abilities into optional customizations instead, you lose literally nothing, but gain more precise control over creating your character.

It's....actually not very easy at all.Very simple server-side measures would have prevented 100% of the hacking that took place in PSO and PSU.

[RenzokukenZ]

Restrictions are boring and not fun. By making what would have been racial abilities into optional customizations instead, you lose literally nothing, but gain more precise control over creating your character.


Or do it like PSP2/i; leave the racial traits and abilities on, and you can customize abilities from your class.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Then you still have the problem of a gameplay element (special ability) being linked to a non-gameplay element (character appearance). There is no reason not to separate them.

[RenzokukenZ]

That's because there is no reason to separate them. There is no problem.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

It seems we have reached an impasse.

Like I said before, I know I'm in the minority with that opinion, but that doesn't mean I can understand the reasoning.

[Wayu]

The logic goes like this:

Every race can do whatever. Race 1 can be the exact same as Race 2 and Race 3 as well.

So why even make 3 races?

-Wayu

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Because they look different?

[Wayu]

Would a video game company pay extra time & effort in making 3 different versions of the exact same thing with the exact same behaviors, functions, and limits & restrictions?

No they wouldn't, unless they have an absolutely massive budget.

-Wayu

[RenzokukenZ]

According to his argument, just for cosmetics.

But most of us like variety in our characters from the start, whether its a newman's natural high tech or a cast's power, something like trap vision or a bonus to certain spells, to even something larger to SUVs or Nanoblasts.

To make everyone the same wouldn't be fun at all, especially in an online game like this. As I stated before, that could work for a single-player game, even the whole 'separate character appearance from character ability' aspect. So its not that the opinion doesn't matter or have merit, its that its being attempted to be sponsored into the wrong game.

Granted, we have no idea how the character customization of this game works, but seeing as the racial trait system has been in play since the dawn of RPGs, why stop it now when it still succeeds?

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I don't see the online multiplayer nature of the game making a difference in that regard, but whatever. Maybe even include some of the customization options from the very start if that's what you want. I'm fine as long as they are individual options and not related to the shape of my ears.
Would a video game company pay extra time & effort in making 3 different versions of the exact same thing with the exact same behaviors, functions, and limits & restrictions?

No they wouldn't, unless they have an absolutely massive budget.One might ask the same thing about the dozens of clothing options.

[RemiusTA]

Restrictions are boring and not fun. By making what would have been racial abilities into optional customizations instead, you lose literally nothing, but gain more precise control over creating your character.

I could pull an easy answer to this and say "World of Warcraft says differently", but i wont. Probably because i dont play WoW.

This is almost entirely a matter of preference. Racial differences allow the developers to add balance and variety to the game in ways that complete and total customization (not a good idea) would not. You could argue that whatever they do with racial differences they could do with a "balanced" customization system (PSP2's ability points, for example), and i think for the most part you would be correct. People like to feel different, but giving you complete control over EVERYTHING (stats, weapon choice, special abilities, animations, ect ect) would eventually only end in tier-whoring. Nobody's really going to ever feel unique if they know that copying a teammate/a teammate copying you is only a trip to the customization shop away.

Of course, you'd have that feeling in a class system too...but it would stay specific to the members of your class. The fact that I know my character can use lv 26 technics and yours never will gives me a sense of power in my technics. The fact that I can use this weapon type, but cant use this one not only makes my weapon type feel more unique, but it makes yours feel unique as well, since im out of range of using it. And balancing is made easier too. Instead of nerfing an entire weapon class, you could maybe just add/decrease a racial bonus on the weapon type, or alter the animation or something.

Limitations aren't boring. It's what makes some aspects of gameplay fun. Being 100% prepared for every situation, having no weaknesses and experiencing no surprises is what's more boring to me.







Very simple server-side measures would have prevented 100% of the hacking that took place in PSO and PSU.That's like saying "a simple server-side measure would have prevented the attacks on PSN". Or "if the Wii/PS3/Xbox360/Windows/Banks simply programmed their defenses better, it wouldn't be hacked.

And FYI, in context of videogames especially, im pretty sure there is absolutely no such thing as a 100% hackproof system. Server-side measures are most definitely hackable, they're just harder to get away with. You make it sound like management of these kinds of things are easy and SEGA is just stupid. The bigger games like WoW have the same types of hacking. They probably just have way bigger teams and budget devoted to making sure it gets patched and doesn't affect the playerbase.


And what if they did patch the holes PSU had in PSO2? Well, they'll just find more. PSO2 WILL be hacked, and so will every MMO on the planet. Programming the game defensively helps, but i think response time to the hacking is just as important.

[BIG OLAF]

Racial differences are all well and good, and preferred by me, at least. Obviously there should be differences in each race's stats; that's just how these games work. I just don't want to be stuck in the same stupid outfit for the entirety of my PSO2 career. That alone, as I've said, will warrant me not buying the game.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

That's like saying "a simple server-side measure would have prevented the attacks on PSN". Or "if the Wii/PS3/Xbox360/Windows/Banks simply programmed their defenses better, it wouldn't be hacked.Not even close. Those are examples of the server itself being hacked. The servers for PSO and PSU have never been hacked. All "hacking" that took place was simply editing some packets, and the server being too stupid to realize that it's impossible to sell 99 scape dolls at once or that you don't actually own the account you're trying to access.

[Pillan]

This is almost entirely a matter of preference. Racial differences allow the developers to add balance and variety to the game in ways that complete and total customization (not a good idea) would not. You could argue that whatever they do with racial differences they could do with a "balanced" customization system (PSP2's ability points, for example), and i think for the most part you would be correct. People like to feel different, but giving you complete control over EVERYTHING (stats, weapon choice, special abilities, animations, ect ect) would eventually only end in tier-whoring. Nobody's really going to ever feel unique if they know that copying a teammate/a teammate copying you is only a trip to the customization shop away.

I would like to bring out the point that this is the case in a complete customization system or a race system. If you played PSU, you probably noticed that there was no shortage of Cast Fighmasters and Cast Gunmasters and just a few of everything else. In a system where there still exists a “best” choice, everyone will obviously migrate toward that “best” choice as they learn to play the game. Thus everyone may have a casual alternate and a main Cast. Once again, feel free to substitute Cast in for whatever you envision will be “best” in this game.

I personally do not like the idea of a game where you are choosing between look and efficiency. I would rather look stylish and have my ideal stats. Fortunately, I happen to like the way Caseals look, so it really is not much of an issue to me. But if say the ideal became Beasts, as it is when the enemy level is not significantly higher or lower, I would have a problem.

In the end everyone will have more or less exactly the same stats, the same favored types, the same weapon choices, and the same special abilities. The only real question is will they all look like Casts?

For example, in PSP2/I, who has a class setup that cannot use Twin Sabers, Twin Handguns, and Rods? Even more specifically, who is not using Emilia’s rod and Elysions?

I really hope we can all agree that we would rather not all play the favored race.

Fortunately, the recent Phantasy Star titles have been fairly good about keeping the efficiency decrease for choosing a specific race under 25%. That means most people will not care too much about your racial decision. But wouldn’t it be nice to be able to play as a Newman Hunter and not tick off the people who want to do speed runs?

[Akaimizu]

Speed run people are speed run people. You can't really get rid of them. And while one thing games like FFXI did right, was create a balance for more different classes in a group to optimize gamepley; you still are faced with very very limited class choices (compared to what is available) for which you won't get passed over by Speed run folks. There is very little winning against that mentality. You just have to hang with people who feel what they have is sufficient for killing things and that you, at least, help in the progress.

[Dongra]

But wouldn’t it be nice to be able to play as a Newman Hunter and not tick off the people who want to do speed runs?
No because I don't give a fuck about those people, so they will just have to deal with it.

[Niloklives]

Or you can deal with getting booted. Honestly, I don't care what race/class you pick as long as you play to your strengths. I'm not a speed runs person, but a newman toting an axe is just trolling.

[Zyrusticae]

And that is why racial differentiation through stats sucks donkey balls...

I have no problem with racial differentiation through, say, class restrictions or special abilities. But the whole "Newman FFs suck balls" thing is nothing more than pigeonholing. And if you're pigeonholing, why give people the option? Just take it away and nobody can complain.

[NoiseHERO]

Or you can deal with getting booted. Honestly, I don't care what race/class you pick as long as you play to your strengths. I'm not a speed runs person, but a newman toting an axe is just trolling.

OR it's just playing the game however the hell you want to. o_O

If you get booted for something like that, you're better off playing with someone whose not a douche to begin with...

[eclipsXe]

Or you can deal with getting booted. Honestly, I don't care what race/class you pick as long as you play to your strengths. I'm not a speed runs person, but a newman toting an axe is just trolling.

I seen people make it work in PSP2, even if they're not as good stat wise with melee weapons it's not like PS was so hard that you needed to be the right race with the right class to do a speed run.

[Dongra]

Or you can deal with getting booted. Honestly, I don't care what race/class you pick as long as you play to your strengths. I'm not a speed runs person, but a newman toting an axe is just trolling.
The kick system in PSU needs to be reworked since it was so easily abused. A party should require multiple votes to kick someone, especially for a reason as dumb as that. I don't see how it's trolling to play the way I want. Chances are that the game will be easy enough for me to get away with it just like PSO and PSU. If someone is going to kick me for my own playstyle then I'm better off not playing with that person.

[NoiseHERO]

The kick system in PSU needs to be reworked since it was so easily abused. A party should require multiple votes to kick someone, especially for a reason as dumb as that. I don't see how it's trolling to play the way I want. Chances are that the game will be easy enough for me to get away with it just like PSO and PSU. If someone is going to kick me for my own playstyle then I'm better off not playing with that person.

I like how I just said this. @_@

That aside...

There should be definitely be a VOTE kick system like you said, I can't tell you how many times I've been booted from a party of friends or people I was getting along with, just because the LEADER had some kind of irrational issue and booted without a word.

Or people booting entire parties in general. e_e

They should also make a system where, rare items can't goto you unless you've been in the mission for a certain amount of it's estimated time, to avoid people jumping in at the last minute.

Add that and just MAYBE every 9/10 wouldn't be locked like in PSU (dunno about PSO, I was an offliner.)

[Akaimizu]

True trolling is in PSU is more like this:

1. While a party is in play, run to the end door and end the mission prematurely, just because you get to the next lobby faster; but screw the fighting party of mission rank. (Rampant before the facility to skip to lobbies at a small cost was added)

2. Be a leader and kick everybody in your party off when you're about to kill the boss. (A counter for this was in PSP2 by giving everybody random prizes...even though some dolts still did it thinking they could capitalize on a system they didn't know changed from PSU).

[Tetsaru]

I agree with the vote option for kicking party members.

I also think there should be a similar voting option that non-leader party members can do to change party leaders if the leader is afk, or just being a douchebag/dumbass.

[NoiseHERO]

I agree with the vote option for kicking party members.

I also think there should be a similar voting option that non-leader party members can do to change party leaders if the leader is afk, or just being a douchebag/dumbass.

MUTINY SYSTEM!

Something like this would definitely be used. It'd especially deal with players that like to act like annoying backseat drivers, or try to boss you into things you're already going to do. (Though mostly I only got that from stupid kids.)

[BIG OLAF]

I agree with the vote option for kicking party members.

I also think there should be a similar voting option that non-leader party members can do to change party leaders if the leader is afk, or just being a douchebag/dumbass.

Yes to both. I liked Valve's "vote to kick" feature in the Left 4 Dead games a lot. Having something like that in PSO2 would be very good. That way, if you're playing with friends, and looking for someone else to join your party, but not be a total doucher, you can all vote to remove them, and re-open the space for someone more competent.

Also, this may seem weird, but Epic Games has done something cool with the Gears of War 3 Beta. It has a feature to where, if one person is idle for too long, they get removed, and get a message saying "you were removed due to lack of participation". I really like that idea, and think that in PSO2, party members should have the option to vote to kick a leader once they've been idle for too long, or something of that nature.

[Tetsaru]

Also, this may seem weird, but Epic Games has done something cool with the Gears of War 3 Beta. It has a feature to where, if one person is idle for too long, they get removed, and get a message saying "you were removed due to lack of participation". I really like that idea, and think that in PSO2, party members should have the option to vote to kick a leader once they've been idle for too long, or something of that nature.

League of Legends also has a similar feature. I'm not sure if I'd want it on an online RPG though, as there are more instances of things like waiting on party members to join you, the synthesis timers in PSU, etc. And sometimes, legitimate things come up, like family emergencies or someone having to go to the bathroom, which I don't think games should necessarily punish players for having to leave for.

[Zyrusticae]

"Legitimate" reasons to leave or go AFK ALWAYS warrant quitting the damn game.

If a player is too incompetent to see this, they SHOULD be kicked. There is ZERO REASON to sit in a game AFK taking up a player slot if you don't expect to be back within 30 seconds. I don't care if you get a loss, I don't care if you get penalized, it's an EMERGENCY, so suck it up and drive on.

[Dongra]

I wouldn't even call getting kicked out a punishment. If you're sitting in a game, wasting a player space, and you have been away for over half the run, then it should be fine for the others to remove you so someone can actually play. I mean, it's not like the game will block you from playing it entirely should you be away for ten minutes.

[Vashyron]

Yes to both. I liked Valve's "vote to kick" feature in the Left 4 Dead games a lot. Having something like that in PSO2 would be very good. That way, if you're playing with friends, and looking for someone else to join your party, but not be a total doucher, you can all vote to remove them, and re-open the space for someone more competent.

Like it? I'm not sure you had to deal with 2+ idiots that feel like ruining someone's else games by either just taking up space or "griefing" and crap can be done about it since 2 of them = always vote failed if you tried to kick.

If there is a vote system I hope at least the leader's vote counts as 2x votes to stop crap like that happening here.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

PSU's kick system was perfect the way it way. If you don't trust that you won't get booted for a retarded reason, don't join the party. Make your own instead. If the party leader is being stupid and you want to kick him, just leave. Vote to kick systems are retarded, because Joe Shmoe could be soloing in an open party, waiting for some cool dudes to join, when all the sudden two griefers join and kick him from his own party. Completely stupid.



OR it's just playing the game however the hell you want to. o_O[Wouldn't it be grand if you could play a Newman fighter AND have fighter-oriented stats AND a fighter-oriented special ability? Yeah, that would be pretty sweet, but apparently you only want people to be able to play however the hell they want up to a certain point.

[Dongra]

Wouldn't it be grand if you could play a Newman fighter AND have fighter-oriented stats AND a fighter-oriented special ability?
Nope because then I would be like every other hunter and nothing about being a newman fighter would be unique or stand out.

[Vashyron]

Nope because then I would be like every other hunter and nothing about being a newman fighter would be unique or stand out.

So, the difference between that and being like every other hunter except crappier stats suited for it would be....?

It's just limiting customization.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You would only be just like everyone else if everyone picked the same exact assortment of customization options, which would not happen if they are properly balanced. People would pick the ones they want, to create their exactly desired play style.


The way want it, you aren't the same as all the beast and cast hunters, but you are exactly the same as all the other newman hunters.

[NoiseHERO]

PSU's kick system was perfect the way it way. If you don't trust that you won't get booted for a retarded reason, don't join the party. Make your own instead. If the party leader is being stupid and you want to kick him, just leave. Vote to kick systems are retarded, because Joe Shmoe could be soloing in an open party, waiting for some cool dudes to join, when all the sudden two griefers join and kick him from his own party. Completely stupid.


Wouldn't it be grand if you could play a Newman fighter AND have fighter-oriented stats AND a fighter-oriented special ability? Yeah, that would be pretty sweet, but apparently you only want people to be able to play however the hell they want up to a certain point.

I have no idea what you're sounding uptight about, if people want to be weak as hell they want to be weak as hell.

It's like telling god I want to be black for having a bigger dick even though I'll have to deal with racism.

Some guy will want to have pointy ears and a buster sword even if he has to deal with being gimped. o_O

Why it has to be more complicated than that I have no idea.

[BIG OLAF]

It's like telling god I want to be black for having a bigger dick even though I'll have to deal with racism.

Haha, what the hell.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I have no idea what you're sounding uptight about, if people want to be weak as hell they want to be weak ass hell.Then they can pick customization options that leave them "weak ass hell." Not everyone playing a Newman fighter wants to be weak as hell, though. Some of the just want a strong fighter with pointy ears.


It's like telling god I want to be black for having a bigger dick even though I'll have to deal with racism.Ahahaha, what?

[NoiseHERO]

Then they can pick customization options that leave them "weak ass hell." Not everyone playing a Newman fighter wants to be weak as hell, though. Some of the just want a strong fighter with pointy ears.

Ahahaha, what?

I was gonna edit that "weak ass hell" faster, but my connection is annoying. :\

edit: though there is a point to them not having to be gimped.

If it was really balanced, there should be a way where they could still benefit, like how Hunewms in PSZ don't suck.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

PSZ is a bad example, as it uses the godawful class system from PSO.

[NoiseHERO]

^W-why are you, @_@

FORGET THAT ANALOGY!

Either way I'm sure theres ways to make newman hunters not suck, but that'd require sega not sucking at balancing in general anyway.

[Pillan]

Regardless of how you do the balance, Hunter will specialize in ATP. Therefore a race with ATP will do better as it. Sure Newman Hunter will have an advantage healing and tech damage. But if they go for the shorter level style of PSU/PSP2, 10 of each -mate is good enough. And in a properly balanced game, techs on hunter will not be useful enough to make everyone want to go Newman hunter.

The only way to really make a nice Newman Hunter would be the ability to trade that extra ATA for ATP. Thus giving them Cast ATP, Beast ATA, Newman TP, and their usual low HP/high EVP. Unfortunately, such is impossible without being able to choose racial stats.

Once again, balance is more a question of value. The value of hybridization will always be a bit less than specification if you consider melee worth as much as range and worth as much as tech.

[Blueblur]

Yes to both. I liked Valve's "vote to kick" feature in the Left 4 Dead games a lot. Having something like that in PSO2 would be very good. That way, if you're playing with friends, and looking for someone else to join your party, but not be a total doucher, you can all vote to remove them, and re-open the space for someone more competent.

Also, this may seem weird, but Epic Games has done something cool with the Gears of War 3 Beta. It has a feature to where, if one person is idle for too long, they get removed, and get a message saying "you were removed due to lack of participation". I really like that idea, and think that in PSO2, party members should have the option to vote to kick a leader once they've been idle for too long, or something of that nature.

I had no Gears 3 Beta did that. I love that. And agree that a voting system would best. Valve's L4D set-up is excellent, IMO.

[Galax]

Regardless of how you do the balance, Hunter will specialize in ATP. Therefore a race with ATP will do better as it. Sure Newman Hunter will have an advantage healing and tech damage. But if they go for the shorter level style of PSU/PSP2, 10 of each -mate is good enough. And in a properly balanced game, techs on hunter will not be useful enough to make everyone want to go Newman hunter.

The only way to really make a nice Newman Hunter would be the ability to trade that extra ATA for ATP. Thus giving them Cast ATP, Beast ATA, Newman TP, and their usual low HP/high EVP. Unfortunately, such is impossible without being able to choose racial stats.

Once again, balance is more a question of value. The value of hybridization will always be a bit less than specification if you consider melee worth as much as range and worth as much as tech.

Perhaps when you're going into character creation and you select a race, you're given some options...
Say you select a Newman, but you opt to have his/her stats more suitable to, say, a Techer/Fighter mix. I guess kind of like that "What sign were you born under" question at the start of Elder Scrolls games.

[Norco]

I just figured out something that PSO2 should have. PSO2 should have a LAN function.

The most fun I had in PSO was when me, my brother and a friend of ours would get our memorycards and play PSO multimode splitscreen on the gamecube.

What'cha all think?

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Sorry, not going to happen. Also, it's already been discussed three million times.

[Ark22]

Wouldn't it suck for everything ya said wouldn't happen it did*Only stuff pertaining to PSO2 and not having any PSU aspects in it*

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Huh? Your sentence does not make sense.

[ARChan]

If racial differences were removed, you might as well have one race.

-Wayu

I agree with this. I hate people bashing on about the differences. Androids may be excellent with their stats and contain natural HP healing but they lacked the ability to effectively buff and debuff things. Newmen may not have a good offense but their EVP (for whatever it's worth), MST, and natural PP healing made them able to be effective tech/PA users. Humans may not have a natural healing stats but their ability to consume more materials has always made them a well-rounded/variable type of race.

EDIT:
Hmm... Considering that the PSU series has newer races/classes, would those transfer to PSO2 or would there be a new kind of race/class? I hope they don't make a half-android character @_@

[NoiseHERO]

I agree with this. I hate people bashing on about the differences. Androids may be excellent with their stats and contain natural HP healing but they lacked the ability to effectively buff and debuff things. Newmen may not have a good offense but their EVP (for whatever it's worth), MST, and natural PP healing made them able to be effective tech/PA users. Humans may not have a natural healing stats but their ability to consume more materials has always made them a well-rounded/variable type of race.

EDIT:
Hmm... Considering that the PSU series has newer races/classes, would those transfer to PSO2 or would there be a new kind of race/class? I hope they don't make a half-android character @_@

If they add ANY new race, I'd want it to be a cyborg D< (half-android)

But as realistic as that'd be seeing as we have MODERN cyborgs in real life technically...

Casts already cover any of the glory that'd come from being a cyborg...mostly because they got faces in PSU...

[Pillan]

Hmm... Considering that the PSU series has newer races/classes, would those transfer to PSO2 or would there be a new kind of race/class? I hope they don't make a half-android character @_@

PSU's class system actually was pretty horrible when you think about it. Even though they had nearly twenty classes, at any point in time there were really only three. First Hunter, Ranger, and Force; then Fortefighter, Fortegunner, and Fortetecher; then Fighmaster, Gunmaster, and Acrotecher (I will not put Masterforce on that list).

So in PSP2, they basically reduced it down to four - Hunter, Ranger, Force, and Vanguard/Braver which is just a hybrid of the other three. And that would probably be the system they would want to go with (rather, the system I want them to have). Then you just customize the class to suite your own hybridization tastes.

I will not care to speculate on any new races, but I would say that more than four races over a game that is essentially three classes does seem like overkill.

[ARChan]

If they add ANY new race, I'd want it to be a cyborg D< (half-android)

But as realistic as that'd be seeing as we have MODERN cyborgs in real life technically...

Casts already cover any of the glory that'd come from being a cyborg...mostly because they got faces in PSU...

I was thinking more of the Android using techs thing. Basically, your typical FOcast/caseal. It sends me off in a loop when thinking about this @_@

EDIT:
What REALLY bugged me about PSZ was stuff like HUcast/caseal being able to use M14 Missouri. I truly hope that stuff like that won't repeat into this game! It totally defeated the purpose of using RAs! The weapon crossing function of PSZ made the game severely unbalanced. The strongest of blades should stay with HUs, the strongest of guns should stay with RAs, and the strongest of wands should stay with FOs! Seriously! I'm NOT joking!

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Masterforce is actually pretty good now, with some of the additions from GAS.

But yes, three/four classes with an extraordinarily deep customization system is clearly the way to go.

[NoiseHERO]

I liked having multiple classes like PSU... but to be honestly it was mostly because of the names.

If we goto PSP2's style which will probably happen from the looks...I hope we atleast get a title system...So instead of everyone being named after one of 4 classes...you're just whatever you call yourself.

[ARChan]

I liked having multiple classes like PSU... but to be honestly it was mostly because of the names.

If we goto PSP2's style which will probably happen from the looks...I hope we atleast get a title system...So instead of everyone being named after one of 4 classes...you're just whatever you call yourself.

Kind of like how our titles on this forum thingy?

[NoiseHERO]

Kind of, but more like literally replacing the name of the classes. :0

Either or would make me happy though. e_e

[ARChan]

Well, it'd be nice to actually have the option of putting the title on your own terms. However, there are people who love to abuse that. -sigh- Damn people.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

PSU already did that with the online status.

[NoiseHERO]

PSU already did that with the online status.

I'm not sure how that system works if it was something added after the supplemental. But something tells me that it's probably not as out in the open as I thing it could be. (Assuming it wasn't right under someones name.)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You can type anything you want, and it appears over your head just above your name.

[NoiseHERO]

You can type anything you want, and it appears over your head just above your name.

Ah, I see, then yeah I hope that returns.

[ARChan]

I dunno. I don't want to be seeing something like "[Hooker] xX_HugsAndKisses_Xx" or something like that.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I dunno. I don't want to be seeing something like "[Hooker] xX_HugsAndKisses_Xx" or something like that.It's tiny little text floating over someone's head. You can even choose not to display it.

[NoiseHERO]

I dunno. I don't want to be seeing something like "[Hooker] xX_HugsAndKisses_Xx" or something like that.

People already did that with actual character names... ]:

Though it would be annoying if people used it for guilds...*REALLY hate guilds*

Maybe if it had...preset words instead? @_@

Or if it was a title system, but depending on your play style you unlock different titles as you grow and customize your class..and it'd be under or above your character's name.

[ARChan]

It's tiny little text floating over someone's head. You can even choose not to display it.

Omg. It'd be annoying if you can't turn it off. I'm for it being toggled on/off if there's the whole title thing going on.

[RemiusTA]

The class system vs. Class + customization system really isn't much different. What did you really gain from PSP2 in that aspect? The only thing it really did was allow me to equip weapons that wern't specific to my class when i picked them up. I really never felt any kind of amazing freedom with PSP2's system. It worked better than PSU's system, but PSU's was flawed anyway. And you guys are forgetting, PSP2 had race-specific abilities too.

anything can be made to work. It's just how the implement it. It really depends on how the game is developed. (amount of varied animations, combat engine, ect.) But essentially making everyone a "ditto" class?



PSZ is a bad example, as it uses the godawful class system from PSO.


are ANY of your opinions free of copious amounts of bias?

[SephirothXer0]

So it seems like the players are divided in half:

The Final Fantasy Tactics style: Set classes and specific abilities given only to them
The Final Fantasy VII style: Everyone can do everything

[RenzokukenZ]

PSP2/i combines both.

[NoiseHERO]

The class system vs. Class + customization system really isn't much different. What did you really gain from PSP2 in that aspect? The only thing it really did was allow me to equip weapons that wern't specific to my class when i picked them up. I really never felt any kind of amazing freedom with PSP2's system. It worked better than PSU's system, but PSU's was flawed anyway. And you guys are forgetting, PSP2 had race-specific abilities too.

anything can be made to work. It's just how the implement it. It really depends on how the game is developed. (amount of varied animations, combat engine, ect.) But essentially making everyone a "ditto" class?



are ANY of your opinions free of copious amounts of bias?

That's exactly why I wanted something like the personal made up class names...

So even if theres probably 100 different kinds of hunter depending on how you customize it, you're not just thrown into one of the same 4 categories regardless.

But in general I really just wanna feel a little more unique than 3 or 4 choices when I pick and customize my class. Which is the only reason I liked PSU's class system the best.

Even if a lot of classes were gimped or just got the shaft because of how over powered fighgunner was.

I definitely want something similar to the acro classes again, since if possible I plan to make a speedy/ninja-like character as my main...

edit: so yeah like seph said, I'd rather it be set classes and unique abilities...slight customization added...but with more choices, and more balanced. than psu's.

[Evila]

Why would anyone want to go back to PSZ and PSO's job system? It's not their balance that's the issue here, just the fact that you're pigeonholed into a specific look and weapon set for the entire game. I don't care if they want to keep PSZ and PSO's silly naming scheme for the nostalgic folk, so long as you can change jobs, weapons, abilities, clothes, and whatever else they'll let us customize anytime.

[IceGreg]

PSO2 on Xbox 360
Free to play = millions of gamers

8-)

[Malachite]

No.

8-)

[SephirothXer0]

Why would anyone want to go back to PSZ and PSO's job system? It's not their balance that's the issue here, just the fact that you're pigeonholed into a specific look and weapon set for the entire game. I don't care if they want to keep PSZ and PSO's silly naming scheme for the nostalgic folk, so long as you can change jobs, weapons, abilities, clothes, and whatever else they'll let us customize anytime.

Because that's the entire premise of a cooperative role-playing game. Every team member has a specific role in the party, whether that be the close brawler, the ranged support or the team healer. When players need another class to help them with something their class cannot do, it promotes teamwork and cooperation, whereas if everyone can do everything all the time then why have a team at all? You can do all their jobs by yourself.

There's no purpose other than adding some more damage, then everyone ends up doing the same thing like how everyone used the same Twin Swords or Twin Daggers and the same PAs in the last few games. You can't really call four guys smashing in a boss's head with the same Photon Art over and over for 30 minutes "teamwork"

There's a reason Team Fortress 2 is so successful with its classes, and why modern shooters all use a class system as well. It gives everyone a chance to be something unique in their team and gives them a sub-group to identify with.

[Malachite]

So much truth in that post.

[Ceresa]

Because that's the entire premise of a cooperative role-playing game. Every team member has a specific role in the party, whether that be the close brawler, the ranged support or the team healer. When players need another class to help them with something their class cannot do, it promotes teamwork and cooperation, whereas if everyone can do everything all the time then why have a team at all? You can do all their jobs by yourself.

There's no purpose other than adding some more damage, then everyone ends up doing the same thing like how everyone used the same Twin Swords or Twin Daggers and the same PAs in the last few games. You can't really call four guys smashing in a boss's head with the same Photon Art over and over for 30 minutes "teamwork"

There's a reason Team Fortress 2 is so successful with its classes, and why modern shooters all use a class system as well. It gives everyone a chance to be something unique in their team and gives them a sub-group to identify with.

As long as you can't change classes mid-mission, then all that teamwork and cooperation is maintained just fine. As none of the games let you change mid-mission, there's no reason for a character to be stuck as the same class forever.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

are ANY of your opinions free of copious amounts of bias?There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion. Opinions are always biased; it's why they are opinions and not observations.

As long as you can't change classes mid-mission, then all that teamwork and cooperation is maintained just fine. As none of the games let you change mid-mission, there's no reason for a character to be stuck as the same class forever.Yup. No one is saying that everyone should be able to do everything all the time. The customization system would be geared in such a way that if you tried to make your character able to do everything, you would end up with a completely gimped and underpowered character that is useless at doing everything.

In other words, Wartecher.

[Nitro Vordex]

PSO2 on Xbox 360
Free to play = millions of gamers

8-)

Xbox 360, a Microsoft console
Free to play
Freehttp://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1272/eeeeeeeeeeeer.jpg

[IceGreg]

lol yes I know but PSO2, free to play would be really cool and would sell really good. I know there will probably never be any free to play game on Xbox :(

[Ark22]

Free to play would make it lack updated content,slowed patches and to much stuff could go wrong with it man..I rather pay for it

[Vashyron]

Free to play would make it lack updated content,slowed patches and to much stuff could go wrong with it man..I rather pay for it

If only Sega were Valve.

(Insert Hat Joke here.)

[Evila]

Yeah, haha. I wasn't asking for the ability to make some kind of crazy do-it-all character. I'd just like to see the ability to fine-tune your weapon roster and stats to your taste or for the purposes of maximizing damage output or whatever. Obviously there'd have to be some limitations like in the PSP2 system. Just give us the basic classes with strong foundations, and let us branch off from there. And if it turns out you don't like your class or customizations, then just visit some special NPC and change things up.

Also I've played plenty of free-to-play games that get updated with more content and events on a regular basis than PSU and PSO did. There's plenty of ways Sega could make that kind of payment style catastrophically awful though (lol paying for missions and top tier weapons) so I can't really say which I'd prefer...

[Ark22]

If only Sega were Valve.

(Insert Hat Joke here.)

If you want Valve updates all you have to do is "Turn on" your PC and out splashes updates

[SephirothXer0]

How about being able to actually hold two melee weapons?

In PSP you could only wield a melee weapon with a ranged weapon. I want to be able to wield a Claw in my right hand and a Saber in my left.

[Pillan]

Along the lines of multi-equipping, I would love to see a system that was entirely free to put any single-hand weapons in either hand. And, with that, I would hope to see the "twin" system abolished. If you want to use a twin Lavis Cannon, you find two Lavis Cannons and wear them together.

Similarly, I would love to see a main-hand and off-hand deviation, where you choose whether your character is left or right handed. The main-hand can have more accuracy and the off-hand have more power.

But, of course, that means they would have to program in combos specific to every weapon combination. Which means at least 12x12x(3+3) (12 weapons, 3 basic attacks, and 3 steps for a single Art) if they do not add anything more than PSP2's weapons. I will assume shields just add a block option. And that does not sound like the amount of effort that the Sonic Team we have come to know and love would put into any game.

Remember, 12x12 is about as many Arts as there are in PSP2 total. And most of those were just Bullet types.

[ShinMaruku]

Free to play would make it lack updated content,slowed patches and to much stuff could go wrong with it man..I rather pay for it

This is a Japanese company it will always be like that regardless of paying or not.
DDO is free and gets new content all the time. Plus if they want money every 6 months sell a x-pack for like $30 or something and make em meaty.

[Wayu]

This is just me, but for aesthetic purposes I oftentimes throw on a single weapon in only one hand of my characters. Maybe they could add some kind of perk if you use a single-handed weapon with two hands or just a single-handed weapon or something like that?

I mean, while I can see the difficulty in blocking with only a single dagger or handgun but it doesn't have to be blocking.

-Wayu

[Vashyron]

Doouble Slicers!

[RenzokukenZ]

This is just me, but for aesthetic purposes I oftentimes throw on a single weapon in only one hand of my characters. Maybe they could add some kind of perk if you use a single-handed weapon with two hands or just a single-handed weapon or something like that?

I mean, while I can see the difficulty in blocking with only a single dagger or handgun but it doesn't have to be blocking.

-Wayu

Didn't PSU did something like this Acromaster? Something about an attack speed boost for single weapons?

[•Col•]

Yes, I'm all for getting rid of the "twin" weapons thing. Having only single-handed weapons that could be placed in either hand . It always annoyed me so much how, as a Fortefighter, anytime I wanted to use a signle-handed melee weapon, I would ALWAYS have to equip a handgun. I always just wished I could put a slicer or something in my left hand instead....

I would like some sort of boost for using a single handed weapon as well. There was pretty much no point where you should have an empty slot on your pallete at any time. An attack speed increase would be nice, but I want it to be a NOTICEABLE difference.....

Anyway, if we were able to mix/match single handed weapons as we pleased, how do you think it would work out? Obviously having two of the same weapon type like daggers would result in how twin daggers worked in other games... But what if you equip two melee weapons of a different type, for instance, a saber and a claw? Do you think they should combine together to create a 6-string normal attack combo, or should they just stay separate and you switch between them?

I think they should stay separate... Simply because I don't want Sega spending all their time creating a 100 different Photon Arts for all the different combinations of weapons, lol.

[Zyrusticae]

I don't know if they'll let you mix-and-match precisely because of the workload involved. It's insane, no matter how you slice it.

I mean, I guess they COULD let you control each hand individually... kinda defeats the point, though, if you're not actually using them in tandem.

I do hope to see the two-handed saber stance return from the original PSO (and to actually have good reason to do it). Should be some of the highest single-target damage in the game - possibly even exceeding that of an axe (since axe attacks will naturally have SOME AoE).

Just my thoughts~

[NoiseHERO]

This is just me, but for aesthetic purposes I oftentimes throw on a single weapon in only one hand of my characters. Maybe they could add some kind of perk if you use a single-handed weapon with two hands or just a single-handed weapon or something like that?

I mean, while I can see the difficulty in blocking with only a single dagger or handgun but it doesn't have to be blocking.

-Wayu

This definitely...

I hated that I was only doing half my job just because I thought a lot of single handed weapons looked stupid paired with a gun.

@ ren acro's got attack boosts in every weapon regardless of how it was equiped.

As for twin saber...I think the only game that made twin weapon combos not look corney was kingdom hearts(also made me like twin swords to begin with next to tales of symphonia)...PSU did a good job with a couple of the PA's (mostly splendor, assualt and that one PA from psp2) but the basic combo looked disgusting.

[Orange_Coconut]

What would I like to see? Hmm....

Rappies. Tons and tons of rappies. In fact, I want a level to be a den, tunnels, or large forested area where mostly rappies reside.

[ARChan]

@Michaeru: Maybe they should combine the whole thing into a Gunblade? Oh wait... Haha!

As for Twin Swords, I just wish that they would be a little more creative with the basic combo. PSU was... ugh. I hate watching people use the basic combo. Twin Sabers were pretty cool in with male characters PSO. I wish they'd stick with that in PSO2 or make it even cooler.

@Coconut: Rappies are a must @_@ Better yet, an event or visual reskins that turns all traps into rappy icons or other stuff :P

On other news, I just noticed that the RA in the video was keeping an enemy airborne like Ebony & Ivory in Devil May Cry. Or was I just seeing things? It'd be pretty cool. Air trapping. However, what would enemies have to counter that? Air recovery?

[RemiusTA]

Because that's the entire premise of a cooperative role-playing game. Every team member has a specific role in the party, whether that be the close brawler, the ranged support or the team healer. When players need another class to help them with something their class cannot do, it promotes teamwork and cooperation, whereas if everyone can do everything all the time then why have a team at all? You can do all their jobs by yourself.

There's no purpose other than adding some more damage, then everyone ends up doing the same thing like how everyone used the same Twin Swords or Twin Daggers and the same PAs in the last few games. You can't really call four guys smashing in a boss's head with the same Photon Art over and over for 30 minutes "teamwork"

There's a reason Team Fortress 2 is so successful with its classes, and why modern shooters all use a class system as well. It gives everyone a chance to be something unique in their team and gives them a sub-group to identify with.


This is what I was getting at.


Yup. No one is saying that everyone should be able to do everything all the time. The customization system would be geared in such a way that if you tried to make your character able to do everything, you would end up with a completely gimped and underpowered character that is useless at doing everything.

In other words, Wartecher.

It's more like people will always pick the most effective mixups. Sounds like it isn't a problem, and it really isn't...but i just prefer the teamwork aspect more. Having a class excel at whatever they want just kind of defeats the purpose. Having a class work around weakness and to strengths is what makes the gameplay in an action game fun. Otherwise the game becomes less of a teamwork game and more of a "lets get together and spam Blade destruction/skaad/sazonde and watch things die" kind of deal.

This is assuming they dont balance it completely, though. Things like that are exploited because they allowed them to be. Like i keep saying, it COULD work. It's just, the freedom to choose weapons and such is just overrated to me. It's annoying to not be able to use a weapon class, but it's just as satisfying to know that you're the only class that can use a certian weapon. Or, that your class uses a weapon differently than another. (Dagger animation with Humar vs. Hunewearl vs Hucaseal, for example.) If everything is allowed to be mixed up, than these little perks and gimmicks are harder to implement. And if you remove racial differences it only gets more bland. And besides, this is PSO2. They're starting completely fresh with this thing. There's no telling what kind of differences they'd include with the classes.


I'll agree with PSP2's weapon/class system if racial balances are set in place as well. I.E., Newmans have higher technique limits, humans are balanced, casts have no techniques, anti-abnormality and other functional traits). This allows different character types to accell at specifc weapons and tactics.

And they're likely going to have some kind of weapon choosing system anyway. If nobody has noticed, both the fomarl and Hunewy are using rifles so far.

[ARChan]

Just a little point I'd like to make:
Crossover of the strongest/most-effective weapons of a certain class is BS. As I said before numerous times, keep the blades with the hunters, guns with the rangers, and wands with the forces. I don't mind if there's a crossover of the lesser weapons like the Kaladbolg or Soul Eater. Just let there not be a freakin situation with the L&K&38, Vivienne, Master Raven, and Last Swan. It seems everyone uses those in that server. HUcast using only an L&K&38... BS!!! FOnewearl rocking that Vivienne? I was mad. FOmarl going pew pew with that Last Swan? Cute, but no.

[Orange_Coconut]

Personally, my favorite aspects of PSO were the MAG leveling system and the Section ID drop system. While MAGs are awesome, I think my true disappointment would be if they got rid of Section IDs entirely.

While I don't feel that the Section IDs were that balanced in PSO, I think they have a chance to really improve on it for this game. Again, however, I have my doubts about ever seeing anything like the Section ID system again in an online PS game. The idea that drops are not global but not individualistic in nature was what I really enjoyed about the game.

If they do come out with Section IDs again, then they need to do it right. I think that choosing and ID or possibly limiting groups of IDs to certain classes would make the most sense. I also think that balancing the weapon types and extra drops (drops that aren't necessarily affiliated with the strength or strength of a particular section ID).

But yeah, MAGs would be awesome too. <3

[lostbylove]

MAGS!!!! PHOTON BLAST!! DAM!!! MAAGS

[Palle]

Less generic races. Depending on the setting, something akin to Parman, Motavian, Dezolian, etc. I mean, weren't 'Humans' the race that exterminated the natives of Algol? Just a pet peeve mine.

Flesh it out a little, you know?

[Aumi]

Less generic races. Depending on the setting, something akin to Parman, Motavian, Dezolian, etc. I mean, weren't 'Humans' the race that exterminated the natives of Algol? Just a pet peeve mine.

Flesh it out a little, you know?

I doubt that you will see these in PSO2. There is no official link between PSO and the classic PS games, after all.

[Palle]

I doubt that you will see these in PSO2. There is no official link between PSO and the classic PS games, after all.
Oh, I wouldn't think so. Merely that if the starter planet is called Manhattan, call its inhabitants Manhattanites. Just a weird preference of mine.

[DeltaLeaf]

If PSO2 was to go revert back to PSO style classes, I'd like to see something unique for each race-class combination besides stats and the such. Like, I liked how HUcaseal in the original had unique animations for a couple of weapons, so I felt like it was something new.:D

[RemiusTA]

I think Hucaseal had the most unique animations because she was a completely new class in Ep1&2. Probably explains Ramarl's pimpin animations as well.

I really pray the unique animations return. It makes new classes so much more fun to play.

[HyperShot-X-]

Maybe someone has already posted similar ideas on this thread but:

-Randomly generated fields with multiple paths to take to get to the end of area or the boss encounter. Party can split up into smaller groups to take different path each as a strategy and have the ability to regroup again whenever necessary with the use of teleport or warp for boss fights, etc. This would work best if randomly generated map patterns are truly limitless and unpredictable.

-More than 4 or 6 members in a party, maybe 8 or even upto 10 or 12, but ONLY IF the number of enemy spawns in blocks or area and the amount of boss HP are auto-adjusted in real time depending on the number of party members as they join or leave at any moment. You could also run solo or in a small party if desired but the reward system should be designed to encourage co-op with more players in a party as it is more fun as well in general.

-Lastly, no more party leader boot option given to only 1 person in the party, if possible, make it a voting system to decide on party leader's proposal to remove a member or not.

[Wayu]

Randomly generated fields are confirmed in the trailer.
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/iRathiest/Screenshot2011-04-30at62109PM.png

I think the 4-man party will return.

-Wayu

[Niloklives]

I hate the idea for voting only cause these games are full of trolls. this is especially an bad idea if you can kick the leader.

what if someone makes a team, get's half way through solo cause they they figured people were going to join and then three people jump in at once and figure it'd be funny just to kick you? you know there are going to be jackasses that will join games just to do that. it will just promote locked rooms.

Maybe vote/kick if the leader is the only one who can start it and their vote counts as 2. But anything other than that is just begging for abuse.

[Pillan]

The way I would like to see kicking handled is simply that the leader can kick whoever they want unless there is a rare on the ground or the party is in the boss room (whether it is the final enemy spawn room or a huge boss). Of course, there is little need for that if they go with something like PSZ/P2's character-specific drop system.

Other than that, my thoughts are "It's my team - I can do whatever I want with it. And if you don't like it, leave."

[Niloklives]

The way I would like to see kicking handled is simply that the leader can kick whoever they want unless there is a rare on the ground or the party is in the boss room (whether it is the final enemy spawn room or a huge boss). Of course, there is little need for that if they go with something like PSZ/P2's character-specific drop system.

Other than that, my thoughts are "It's my team - I can do whatever I want with it. And if you don't like it, leave."

Yeah. at the same time I got kicked from a room once for stopping to read mail. I even said "mail, sec" next thing I know some says for the leader to boot me and I'm in the lobby.

So there's always bullshit. Still, if I make a team, why am I answering to the people who joined me?

[Darki]

The problem is that there is no way to make the game distinguish between a "you're an asshole and I'll kick you" situation and an "I'll kick you because I'm the asshole" one.

For example, if you don't let people be kicked if there's a rare on, first of all that is very impractical to do. For PSU a kerseline is a "rare". I wouldn't like to be able to kick a jerk because there's a kerseline on the ground in the first block when we're at the boss. I wouldn't also like not to be able to kick someone who just came to steal my items and go.

Also there are legitimate situations where you'd wish to kick a person at the end of a run or at the boss. What if that person decided to insult all your family and descendants with very mean words? Lol it's stupid, I know, but I mean that there are situations that the game can't handle.

Maybe it could be done that, for example, depending on the time the person you're willing to kick it will need more "votes". For example if someone just joined after you killed the boss you can just kick that person, but if it's someone who has been all the run, it will need party decision.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

The problem is that there is no way to make the game distinguish between a "you're an asshole and I'll kick you" situation and an "I'll kick you because I'm the asshole" one.There's a simple solution to that problem: don't play with assholes.

[Niloklives]

some assholes dont look like assholes until you look real hard...

[Wayu]

It's an online game. There will always be assholes.

So all we can really do is be careful.

-Wayu

[Corey Blue]

Randomly generated fields are confirmed in the trailer.
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/iRathiest/Screenshot2011-04-30at62109PM.png

I think the 4-man party will return.

-Wayu

It look's better with just four people,to me anyway,also I hope we don't get a kick button because that shit is annoying.

[Shinji Kazuya]

Do not worry. The assholes always make sure that we know they are assholes. Sooner or later.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Right, but the point is that assholes have the right to be assholes in their own parties. If you don't trust someone, don't join their party. Make your own instead.

I got booted all of once in the entirety of my PSU career. It simply isn't a problem if you aren't either overly trusting of strangers or a complete asshole.

I hope we don't get a kick button because that shit is annoying.It's only annoying when you aren't the one doing the kicking. Otherwise, it's extremely annoying not to have a kick option.

[Shinji Kazuya]

Right, but the point is that assholes have the right to be assholes in their own parties. If you don't trust someone, don't join their party. Make your own instead.

I got booted all of once in the entirety of my PSU career. It simply isn't a problem if you aren't either overly trusting of strangers of a complete asshole.

Yeah exacly. That's why I make a party more often than I join one.

[Niloklives]

oh believe me I know. just amazing how you can get kicked for blinking wrong

again, i'm against a voting system, I think we should be allowed to kick who we want. just kinda sucks when you get kicked for no reason.

[NoiseHERO]

The booting problem on pc/ps2 was only really bad in the beginning, after everyone started forming cliques nobody really partied with strangers much, and when they did there'd rarely be any conflict.

Hopefully we'll have less 25 year olds with the brains of 12 year olds booting anything that doesn't have a vagina or their same play style like on the xbox servers. :0

[Niloklives]

The booting problem on pc/ps2 was only really bad in the beginning, after everyone started forming cliques nobody really partied with strangers much, and when they did there'd rarely be any conflict.

Hopefully we'll have less 25 year olds with the brains of 12 year olds booting anything that doesn't have a vagina or their same play style like on the xbox servers. :0


I boot people even if they have a vagina

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I only booted people who obviously had duped Meseta (I'm talking way back in very early PSU when you could tell) or were Remedy.

[Corey Blue]

It's called a password and they should make one,except for me making me feel bad when I get kicked. Me *joins* Guy:Sorry Me:Wha? *Kicked*(It's really stupid.)They need a better way to kick people,and I know we DO need a kick button,but it gotta be a better way.

[NoiseHERO]

I kind of hated that whole "19 out of every 20 rooms would be locked unless the players were new or badly needed teammates and the missions going to go horribly" thing PSU suffered.

But I guess it's inevitable once everyone gets to the point where they care less about leveling n adventure, and just want rares. I think tiny amounts of drip fed disc content mixed with horrible drop rates sped this up as well.

[Corey Blue]

I kind of hated that whole "19 out of every 20 rooms would be locked unless the players were new or badly needed teammates and the missions going to go horribly" thing PSU suffered.

But I guess it's inevitable once everyone gets to the point where they care less about leveling n adventure, and just want rares. I think tiny amounts of drip fed disc content mixed with horrible drop rates sped this up as well.

I don't think we could ever fix that,people just like alienating themselves.Me I like random parties,and chatting with random people it's fun.

[Niloklives]

I didn't always set a PW if i was on like...universe 17 and running with a few friends in some random location...it was just faster not to bother and then people I knew could just pop in. I dunno I kinda felt like if I was in the middle of nowhere it was pretty obvious I wasn't looking for randoms to jump in. if you were on uni 2 and getting kicked for joining though thats different

[BIG OLAF]

I didn't always set a PW if i was on like...universe 17 and running with a few friends in some random location...it was just faster not to bother and then people I knew could just pop in. I dunno I kinda felt like if I was in the middle of nowhere it was pretty obvious I wasn't looking for randoms to jump in. if you were on uni 2 and getting kicked for joining though thats different

There's actually a "Dumb Reasons for Getting Booted" thread on the official PSU forums. Some of the stories in that thread are just downright ludicrous. People will find any reason to boot you.

So, while it may not be good to have a "kick" function, how else will you get rid of someone who joins your game and acts like a dick?

[Corey Blue]

I didn't always set a PW if i was on like...universe 17 and running with a few friends in some random location...it was just faster not to bother and then people I knew could just pop in. I dunno I kinda felt like if I was in the middle of nowhere it was pretty obvious I wasn't looking for randoms to jump in. if you were on uni 2 and getting kicked for joining though thats different
I know I'm gonna be setting up parties for people here when the game comes out.I may disagree with some people here,but they still cool people.One reason why I joined here.Don't gotta worry about getting kicked with me,I'm to mellow for that and I joke around myself.@olaf yeah it just need's to be a voting system or something,I don't know why but people love kicking people for no reason.(The voting system might make you feel worse when you get kicked.)

[Ark22]

Monster Hunter Tri is a prime example of not having a kick button. And boy people are so persistent when it comes to "Hey I don't suck even though I died 3 times in a row costing the quest. But hey I think I can make it up to you guys by doing another quest." That's when you WANT to kick him. But you can't. Plus PSO2 will need it if you can't leave people behind in boss battle teleporter because the jerk decided to go idle

[BIG OLAF]

Plus PSO2 will need it if you can't leave people behind in boss battle teleporter because the jerk decided to go idle

PSU had a feature with the boss portals to where the current members of the team could initiate the teleportation sequence without all of the party members being present. Whoever was "in" the portal teleported. Whoever was idle stayed behind. I'm sure that will make a return.

[Corey Blue]

Monster Hunter Tri is a prime example of not having a kick button. And boy people are so persistent when it comes to "Hey I don't suck even though I died 3 times in a row costing the quest. But hey I think I can make it up to you guys by doing another quest." That's when you WANT to kick him. But you can't. Plus PSO2 will need it if you can't leave people behind in boss battle teleporter because the jerk decided to go idle

I would like a voting system,other then that I don't know,I guess we have to stay with the boot system we have now. @Olaf Cant believe I forgot about that..

[Ark22]

PSU had a feature with the boss portals to where the current members of the team could initiate the teleportation sequence without all of the party members being present. Whoever was "in" the portal teleported. Whoever was idle stayed behind. I'm sure that will make a return.

They should have done that for Psp2. But I just kicked them.(Unless I was not the leader and did the 5 minute wait then leave)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

It's called a password and they should make one,except for me making me feel bad when I get kicked. Me *joins* Guy:Sorry Me:Wha? *Kicked*(It's really stupid.)How often did that really happen, though?

[NoiseHERO]

How often did that really happen, though?

A lot, but at least THEY said sorry? :0

[Ark22]

No I hate it when it's like "HE-"*kicked*

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Never once happened to me.

Seriously, who were people playing with? That stuff practically never happened.

[Corey Blue]

How often did that really happen, though?
It happens on and off everyday,sometimes I get booted,sometimes I don't,and when I don't I have fun because the party get full and I stay with those guys all day.(and we go to the casinos and chill in the room's,it was fun.)

[Ark22]

It's like the "I have friends =3" thing going on. But I felt the same way when I was level 100 and everyone else is 150 and I think to myself " I am gonna get kicked!!" Leader:Ready Ark?
Me: (SWEET) Yesh, let's ride!

[Niloklives]

I once got booted for killing too fast. I was the lowbie >_>

[Corey Blue]

I think alot of people wanted to train there powers I guess,I forget what they called them in PSU.I just trained as I went along.(So people got mad when you killed them to fast.)I never got mad at people though,I just played the game and all my powers were like 32 35 or something.

[Niloklives]

lol no I was lvl 17, they were level 34. and i was leveling MY PAs. they were just scrubs.

[Corey Blue]

Oh I can see it now lmfao,they couldn't touch the enemies cause you were killing them to fast,that happened to me a few times because I wasn't paying attention.I just kept killing.

[Kimil Adrayne]

Instead of making a new topic, like I was going to...

I never played PSP2i, and doubt I will at this point. For those who have, is the rebirth bit a good addition?

One problem for sustaining the population of PSU was the lack of low-leveled players to play with the newcomers. I feel like having a rebirth system would help even out the mass of population over all the levels versus just the higher levels.

Bonuses for rebirth could be stats, items, clothes, skills, mags... anything really.

I'd like to have this included with PSO2

[Corey Blue]

Instead of making a new topic, like I was going to...

I never played PSP2i, and doubt I will at this point. For those who have, is the rebirth bit a good addition?
.
One problem for sustaining the population of PSU was the lack of low-leveled players to play with the newcomers. I feel like having a rebirth system would help even out the mass of population over all the levels versus just the higher levels.

Bonuses for rebirth could be stats, items, clothes, skills, mags... anything really.

I'd like to have this included with PSO2

I wanna know too,it sounds interesting.

[Ark22]

Rebirth is kinda broken, because that throws special stats out the door from what I heard

[Wayu]

Rebirths are fine. They don't eliminate racial stat differences. All they do is add a set amount of stat points. Well, not "all they do" because that's a lot of points.

Rebirth points can be used to get Extend Codes to further improve weapons and add SEs.

They give you something to do after you hit 200 - rebirth, get a lot of points to add to base stats, and start over with those improved stats. It's necessary to survive at Infinity Difficulty.


Rebirth is kinda broken, because that throws special stats out the door from what I heard

Lies.

-Wayu

[Kimil Adrayne]

Sounds good. What I'd want then, is added rebirths with a little less difficulty reaching level 200, make it something a casual gamer could do at least once or twice.

Also restrict re-birthing to when you reach the max level, throw in X Rebirth'd-only missions /areas too.

[Itoshi]

If they bring anything besides gameplay from PSP2, I'd really like to see Extend Codes. S-Ranks are awesome, but Extend Codes are a really great idea. Maybe they'll let us rename the weapon this time.

[Wayu]

Oh oh oh.

An OST.

-Wayu

[SephirothXer0]

If they bring anything besides gameplay from PSP2, I'd really like to see Extend Codes. S-Ranks are awesome, but Extend Codes are a really great idea. Maybe they'll let us rename the weapon this time.

Definitely want the Extend Codes back. I like to use weapons that I think look the coolest or fit my character best, and it's great to be able to upgrade the cool looking weak weapons to be useful on the S rank missions.

[Pillan]

Rebirths are fine. They don't eliminate racial stat differences.

Actually, after examining the Wiki, the stat growth does look like just enough to make the lowest stat holder on-par with the highest stat holder.

Of course, if everyone follows the same growth choices, the differences will be retained. I would not know enough about the community to really say how that actually plays out though.

But, yes, that has been my ideal method for PSO2's growth control - a cap based on the community's level (we will say twice the average max level reached on each account) and a rebirth system for the overachievers who reach the new cap in a week.

However, I cannot see it really doing much for the clique problem, as I am sure rebirthing cliques will form.

[Anon_Fire]

Shields

[HyperShot-X-]

Randomly generated fields are confirmed in the trailer.
...

I think the 4-man party will return.

-Wayu
My point was not about 'Randomly generated field', of course I was aware of the trailer. I just don't see the practical use of it other than looking different everytime if the mission progress was linear and boring as in getting from point A to point B while killing everything on the way. I even highlited that part so you wouldn't miss it but here it goes again; Multiple paths to take would give players even more realistic feel of adventure heading into the unknown with unpredictable outcomes and more strategic depth, so far the trailer is not showing enough to tell this is indeed the case.

Neither is it showing nor has been confirmed anywhere that 4 players max in party, it seems as tho there's enough space on the right side of screen to have upto 12 players or more. Just having 4 max party would be like going back to the same old boring classic 10 years ago with not much depth or improvement, it could be ideal for action intensive online co-op games like Left4Dead series, but PSO2 is expected to be all that and more like action RPG-MMO hybrid. Splitting up into smaller groups to conquer multiple paths and going into 12-man raid on huge mega-bosses are all likely possible with more players in party.

Hope you are following where I'm going with all of these as they build up to support my main point I made originally, which is that the voting system for boot option given to party leader would be more effective in bigger party and would leave less room for abuse than in a smaller party of 4. Just to clarify how the system should work as I originally meant, party leader is the only person with the privilege to initiate voting to remove a member, no other member in the party has that right, but the decision is upto party members by majority rule, and that one member's vote who is about to be removed should not count. This really shouldn't be that complicated.

[RenzokukenZ]

12 people is too much, especially with this kind of action. 4 appears to be the better number, and there isn't anything wrong with keeping with 4.

[FEI LEE]

Bacially this ^

I'd also like to see boss battles with multiple bosses on the field (ex: two dragons at once, etc) tailored for larger parties assuming the max party size has been increased or boss battles with other enemies in play.

[Niloklives]

PSP2 actually did have a few bosses where there were two on the field at once. They were set battles of course, but it's not out of the question that we might see this again and with more variety and maybe even frequency.

[Kevlar009]

Higher character customization
*Custom color schemes
*Facial editor (like in Fallout and most other action RPG's)
*Varied body Suits

Hoping for visual changes due to armors and shields (Primarily from Rares)

[Kevlar009]

Please retain the amazing red color for Red Boxes

[Corey Blue]

My point was not about 'Randomly generated field', of course I was aware of the trailer. I just don't see the practical use of it other than looking different everytime if the mission progress was linear and boring as in getting from point A to point B while killing everything on the way. I even highlited that part so you wouldn't miss it but here it goes again; Multiple paths to take would give players even more realistic feel of adventure heading into the unknown with unpredictable outcomes and more strategic depth, so far the trailer is not showing enough to tell this is indeed the case.

Neither is it showing nor has been confirmed anywhere that 4 players max in party, it seems as tho there's enough space on the right side of screen to have upto 12 players or more. Just having 4 max party would be like going back to the same old boring classic 10 years ago with not much depth or improvement, it could be ideal for action intensive online co-op games like Left4Dead series, but PSO2 is expected to be all that and more like action RPG-MMO hybrid. Splitting up into smaller groups to conquer multiple paths and going into 12-man raid on huge mega-bosses are all likely possible with more players in party.

Hope you are following where I'm going with all of these as they build up to support my main point I made originally, which is that the voting system for boot option given to party leader would be more effective in bigger party and would leave less room for abuse than in a smaller party of 4. Just to clarify how the system should work as I originally meant, party leader is the only person with the privilege to initiate voting to remove a member, no other member in the party has that right, but the decision is upto party members by majority rule, and that one member's vote who is about to be removed should not count. This really shouldn't be that complicated.
Four is the magic number and for a RPG game like this,it's not really outdated.

[FEI LEE]

PSP2 actually did have a few bosses where there were two on the field at once. They were set battles of course, but it's not out of the question that we might see this again and with more variety and maybe even frequency.

Boss battles along these lines seem like a acceptable way to promote teamwork on some level imo at least.

Does anyone know if Dark Falz will be returning now that I think of it? I know that he's somewhat of a tradition but PSU had a variant of him instead as the final boss.

[Niloklives]

Boss battles along these lines seem like a acceptable way to promote teamwork on some level imo at least.

Does anyone know if Dark Falz will be returning now that I think of it? I know that he's somewhat of a tradition but PSU had a variant of him instead as the final boss.

PSU eventually does bring up Dark Falz. he has a larvae form in AoI and by PSP2 he has a full form that is unfortunately very similar to fakis' final form. I'm pretty sure Falz will appear again

[HyperShot-X-]

12 people is too much, especially with this kind of action. 4 appears to be the better number, and there isn't anything wrong with keeping with 4.
12 is maybe a bit exaggerated but 8 isn't anything that can't be done and would be the least improvement from 6 on PSU, 4 would be ideal if they actually implemented friendly fire mode and you could physically damage your teammate if you don't aim or position yourself right that could add more depth to co-op play, and then there's the boot option abuse issue in smaller party which is the only imperfection that seems like it can't never be improved.

[Corey Blue]

PSU eventually does bring up Dark Falz. he has a larvae form in AoI and by PSP2 he has a full form that is unfortunately very similar to fakis' final form. I'm pretty sure Falz will appear again

Wouldn't be a PS game without him.

[Vashyron]

PSU eventually does bring up Dark Falz. he has a larvae form in AoI and by PSP2 he has a full form that is unfortunately very similar to fakis' final form. I'm pretty sure Falz will appear again

To add that to that, though I believe he's missing from both PSP and PSP2, but back again in PSP2i.

[Niloklives]

12 is maybe a bit exaggerated but 8 isn't anything that can't be done and would be the least improvement from 6 on PSU, 4 would be ideal if they actually implemented friendly fire mode and you could physically damage your teammate if you don't aim or position yourself right that could add more depth to co-op play, and then there's the boot option abuse issue in smaller party which is the only imperfection that seems like it can't never be improved.

I actually kinda felt like 6 was pushing it.


To add that to that, though I believe he's missing from both PSP and PSP2, but back again in PSP2i.

He is most certainly in PSP2

[FEI LEE]

PSU eventually does bring up Dark Falz. he has a larvae form in AoI and by PSP2 he has a full form that is unfortunately very similar to fakis' final form. I'm pretty sure Falz will appear again

Ah yes, it completely slipped my mind that he was in PSU (haven't played in a while). I guess it would be safe to assume then since they seem to put forth the effort for Falz to show up.

[BIG OLAF]

Wouldn't be a PS game without him.

^This. Dark Falz has been the villain in every Phantasy Star game to date, or at least had something to do with the main problem in the narrative (besides PSP1/2). No reason to take him out now. He's to Phantasy Star as Bowser is to Mario, how Eggman is to Sonic, how Ganon is to Legend of Zelda. As in, there may be other villains from time to time...

...but Dark Falz will always be the bad guy.

[Vashyron]

He is most certainly in PSP2

Ah right actually remember him now, though wasn't the final boss, just the same form as in PSU so I didn't remember it that well.

[Niloklives]

^This. Dark Falz has been the villain in every Phantasy Star game to date, or at least had something to do with the main problem in the narrative (besides PSP1/2). No reason to take him out now. He's to Phantasy Star as Bowser is to Mario, how Eggman is to Sonic, how Ganon is to Legend of Zelda. As in, there may be other villains from time to time...

...but Dark Falz will always be the bad guy.

Right...he's a staple.

Now I have an image of falz dropping out of a hole in the sky and screaming "Say hello to the bad guy!!"

Thanks.

[FEI LEE]

Right...he's a staple.

Now I have an image of falz dropping out of a hole in the sky and screaming "Say hello to the bad guy!!"

Thanks.

He's so gotta do it in the voice though :-P (sry off topic lol)

[Seth Astra]

Friendly fire... That would most likely end very badly... Rangers would be fine, but I'd imagine that Hunters would end up hitting each other a lot with larger weapons and any Force attempting offense would be immediately booted. Big explosions don't work well with friendly fire when everyon's attacking the same mob.

[NoiseHERO]

B> Female looking last boss...I thought mother brain in PSZ was awesome...

Till it turned into DarkfalzMon/baby shadow of the colossus-looking thing

[FEI LEE]

B> Female looking last boss...I thought mother brain in PSZ was awesome...

Till it turned into DarkfalzMon/baby shadow of the colossus-looking thing

Well...Dark Falz was a female in PSO if that counts.

[Dongra]

I actually kinda felt like 6 was pushing it.
I always thought six was an odd number to pick. It's not as odd as Gears of War 2's five though.

[NoiseHERO]

Well...Dark Falz was a female in PSO if that counts.

If it was only cause it used ringo rico...then meh

Maybe more something like this...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cd4p95nWgMk/TM3Z8Zhi8hI/AAAAAAAABv0/8CoVkSWVlRw/s1600/metropolis-trailer-de-la-nueva-restauracion.jpg

Then it transforms into a giant version of this or something...

http://hopeliesat24framespersecond.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/tetsuo-02.jpg

Yeah I know tetsuo the ironman is a dude...

[FEI LEE]

That second picture would be the most menacing boss the PS series has ever seen.

-Dem eyes

[•Col•]

Ah right actually remember him now, though wasn't the final boss, just the same form as in PSU so I didn't remember it that well.

You fight him in his humanoid form as well.

[FEI LEE]

Also I'm not sure if anyone previously mentioned this but I think player rooms have great potential if done correctly.

[Vashyron]

You fight him in his humanoid form as well.

Yeah, but just really didn't remember him because unlike past times, he was at least part of the plot, though here....

[Niloklives]

Also I'm not sure if anyone previously mentioned this but I think player rooms have great potential if done correctly.

They've been using player rooms since PSU. It's used as a hub for your account, allowing you to share items between characters, provides storage for your collection, can be decorated and redone in various designs and layouts (usually structurally similar but different artistically), provides a place to hang out with your friends, and in PSU, it was active even while you were offline since data was stored server side allowing you to run your own self contained shop using an NPC that also served as an assistant for services like item synthesis and your storage. Items listed and prices were set by the player. Player shops were found using a console that provided a means of moving to rooms you had visited before, or to the rooms of people you knew as well as a means to search shops out by terms, item types and prices. The room could also be locked if you wished.

It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty cool.

[RenzokukenZ]

12 is maybe a bit exaggerated but 8 isn't anything that can't be done and would be the least improvement from 6 on PSU, 4 would be ideal if they actually implemented friendly fire mode and you could physically damage your teammate if you don't aim or position yourself right that could add more depth to co-op play, and then there's the boot option abuse issue in smaller party which is the only imperfection that seems like it can't never be improved.

Why would friendly-fire be implemented? Sure that was in PSO, but as an alternative game mode, rather than the main game.

Or better question, who would want friendly-fire?

[Shadownami92]

Why would friendly-fire be implemented? Sure that was in PSO, but as an alternative game mode, rather than the main game.

Or better question, who would want friendly-fire?

That depends if they added the classic "if you die you drop something" element I'd think. As well as how much you hate people.

In Monster Hunter it was kind of fun where friendly fire could stun or wake up somebody or make them go flying, in a sense it gave player interaction some more depth, I remember using a charged hammer to launch players with low health out of the way of a monster's charge, also had it happen to me and had me get launched straight over a monster's charge.

Granted with that type of friendly fire you wouldn't actually harm anybody HP wise. Would be funny to be a Force and be able to cast rafoie to launch a hunter up into the air to hit a flying monster though.

[FEI LEE]

That depends if they added the classic "if you die you drop something" element I'd think.

Please no ver. 1 all over again.

[NoiseHERO]

That depends if they added the classic "if you die you drop something" element I'd think.

And then there will be absolutely NO unlocked missions! : D

Yeah I know I'm commenting on sarcasm, that means it's time for bed.

[Galax]

Trying to run Ruins in battle mode anyone? :P

[Justyn_Darkcrest]

That depends if they added the classic "if you die you drop something" element I'd think. As well as how much you hate people.

In Monster Hunter it was kind of fun where friendly fire could stun or wake up somebody or make them go flying, in a sense it gave player interaction some more depth, I remember using a charged hammer to launch players with low health out of the way of a monster's charge, also had it happen to me and had me get launched straight over a monster's charge.

Granted with that type of friendly fire you wouldn't actually harm anybody HP wise. Would be funny to be a Force and be able to cast rafoie to launch a hunter up into the air to hit a flying monster though.

As amusing and fun as this would be, I'd hate to see this implemented lol. I would love nothing more than to blast someone across the room every time they demand something, but yeah, in a game like this I don't think it's a good idea.

True it worked well in MH. Then again, MH didn't have spells. Imagine you're a hunter running with your group, you see a massive creature and start slashing it up, then a firey blast sends you flying away from it. You get up, run back, and it happens again. Would be infuriating.

Now maybe if they only had certain techs/bullets/PAs that did this, I could see that working quite well. That way, you don't "accidentally" blow your team mates across the room as a Force or smack them away as a Hunter. Don't see this as much of an issue for any precision based range weapon though.

[Niloklives]

yeah, that happens in MH. it's called crag ammo

[Justyn_Darkcrest]

yeah, that happens in MH. it's called crag ammo

Yeah, I played Tri as a gunner. But even with that shot, on most larger enemies I was able to aim at spots my team wasn't around to avoid the problem. Granted, not foolproof lol. But for the most part it wasn't an issue. If they made a tech that had similar precision I could see this working quite nicely.

[Niloklives]

if people actually cared. you have to remember most people have no regard for team synergy and will blow up their entire team if it means they get to play as they want: lazy.

[•Col•]

It's a nice touch in Monster Hunter, but wouldn't work well in PSO2. The majority of the enemies you face in MH, are so large that you can avoid your teamates. In Phantasy Star Online 2, the majority of your enemies are around the size of your character or even smaller.

Yeah, there are missions where you have to kill small monsters, but in those cases its always just "You kill those monsters, I'll kill these ones".

[Niloklives]

yeah any kind of friendly fire - even non damaging friendly fire would only end friendships in a game like this.

[Eidolus_Dyne]

Or perhaps... Forces techniques be redesigned to be more about manipulating the battle. So their move sets would facilitate routing enemies, and protect players through a variety of ways. Something as flexible as Magicka. Doing things like placing shields, elemental shields, landmines, and charging weapons with one time use special effects, had a very cool effect on battle. Not to mention several types of healing. Heal Ray would be so cool with third person shooter controls. Laser heals is the only thing that PSU didn't turn into lasers.

[FEI LEE]

yeah any kind of friendly fire - even non damaging friendly fire would only end friendships in a game like this.

Or as mentioned before, unbelievable amounts of trolling.

[•Col•]

Also imagine this situation, which cant happen in Monster Hunter.

Rare spawns. Hunter makes a mad dash for it. Force casts Rafoie and sends the Hunter flying. Force happily skips to pick up the rare, rockin' a trollface.

[Tetsaru]

Or as mentioned before, unbelievable amounts of trolling.

Agreed. Friendly fire is a HORRIBLE idea for a game like PSO2.... :nono: