DBZ Kai on 4kids' hands

[Neo Flint]

As you may or may not know, the remake of the hit anime franchise, Dragon Ball Z has been released for some time now known as Dragon Ball Z Kai which attempts to become more faithful to its manga counter-part as well has removing some of the pointless moments to make the story flow a little faster. The quality has also been enhanced making it HD compatible and the voice acting has been modified slightly.

When I first found out that DBZ Kai was on its way to Nicktoons network, I was both excited and worried. I haven't seen DBZ in a long time and been dying to see it again for some time. Then I realize that Nick might watered down the show seeing as it is quite violate and crude at times and Nicktoons was aimed for kids. When I watched the show on Nicktoons for the first time, I had a lot of fun with it. Even if it was modified slightly. It was edited just enough to make the Nicktoons version tolerable.

Then 4Kids (or "Toonzai", whatever you want to call it >_>) took over and decided to broadcast the show on their Saturday morning line-up. After watching the Nicktoons version, I was at first indifferent on this. Then I realized that 4kids has a nasty habit of making some ridiculous modifications to Japanese animation including the famous invisible gun/squirt gun technique as seen in Yu-gi-oh and One piece.

I just got done watching two episodes of the 4Kids versions of Dragon Ball Z Kai while seeing that dumb ninja appear onscreen during a sweepstakes. In the opening, a scene where Goku gets punched in the face by Vetega was cut out. At the end of the first episode I watched when Vetega and Nappa are having a snack on another planet, they were eating mushrooms. In the original and Nicktoons' version, Vetega was eating an arm. Also, a few things baffled me during the scenes where Goku dies and was transported to Snake Way. The 4kids team seems to be full of atheist as Goku's halo was replaced with a little ball over his head yet all the demon's horns were kept. How are demon's horns okay but halos are not okay? They also try to remove death in the series like they usually do so it may be unclear as to what really happened to Goku for some people.

And remember Mr. Popo? The little big lipped guy who's competently black? You'll never guess what they've done to him...

I am a big fan of the DBZ franchise and I hate to see one of my favorite show get watered down like this. Ironically, I used to be a fan of 4kids when I was younger. But the more I watch it now, the closer I'll get to switching the off button permanently on television and stick to newspapers, internet and DVDs.

P.S. this is kind of my first rant so bear with me if I made mistakes. ^^;

[Outrider]

In the opening, a scene where Goku gets punched in the face by Vetega was cut out. At the end of the first episode I watched when Vetega and Nappa are having a snack on another planet, they were eating mushrooms. In the original and Nicktoons' version, Vetega was eating an arm.


Goku's halo was replaced with a little ball over his head yet all the demon's horns were kept. How are demon's horns okay but halos are not okay?

Is that stuff true? It's pretty ridiculous if so.

It actually reminds me of the early Dragon Ball Z from back when I was in middle school, in which they would edit out a lot of the more violent scenes or dub in new lines to suggest that people didn't die (such as when Vegeta blows up a news chopper and someone goes, "Oh, I can see their parachutes, so everybody is okay!")

The funny thing is that FUNimation eventually loosened their censorship standards and tried to keep the show closer to the original Japanese version. It still had the awful synthesizer music, but it was definitely better.

I'm getting kind of a kick out of how history seems to be repeating itself.

[Neo Flint]

I have some evidence...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2Y8sb8fok&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2Y8sb8fok&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trmi77w075w&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trmi77w075w&feature=related

Yeah, it is kind of hard to believe. Can't seem to find any scenes involving Goku's death.

[Sayara]

4kids is a kids network. not a teens one. You know this!

[Kard]

Unnecessary censorship at its finest~ It's almost as though the older generation have forgotten what cartoons (and TV in general) were like when they were young. Today's programming is more of an insult to the intelligence of this generation's youth than anything else.

[Tyreek]

Fights happen, and people get hurt, bruised, and bloodied, but they can censor out someone getting punched for real? Really? They think they can water down the violence to those lengths?

I remember seeing Megaman NT AXcess, enduring that horrible music they made, and the only good music they had in it, turned out to be a touch up from the original music from EXE Access, with some more beat. *Shakes head* Anyway, there's a scene where Shademan enters the area and tries to steal some important data, and Lan tries to stop him, but gets smacked away.... They edited that out. Funny, Tails tried to stop Shadow in the last season of Sonic X, and Shadow punched him hard. That wasn't edited? LOL.

[Outrider]

Hold up, now I'm a little confused. Are they actually producing two versions of the dub - one with this content edited and one without?

Because I think I can forgive that. (Oddly enough, that's the same thing FUNimation did back in the day - offering the unedited version on DVD or something like that.)

It is weird how they try to clean up DBZ though. Sure, the series is for kids, but it's premise means it's going to be inherently violent - I guess they think enough younger children will be fans that they're willing to jump through these hoops to sanitize it?

[Nitro Vordex]

I'll be mad if they butcher it too much. I think the Funimation home releases are going to be uncut though.

[BIG OLAF]

Not surprising, given how censorship in youth's television has made a slow, sneaky ascension in the past 10 years or so. Most cartoons nowadays are complete garbage thanks to all that. Gone are the days of Dexter's Laboratory, The Angry Beavers, and Courage the Cowardly Dog, just to name a few that would be deemed "too inappropriate" for today's children. I will give kudos to Boomerang and Nicktoons Network for showing those shows sometimes.

I know DBZ is a lot different, considering it's an anime, but it's still being put on cartoon channels, so it will be horribly, unbelievably cut back and butchered. At least Nicktoons didn't completely massacre it.

[Sayara]

Hold up, now I'm a little confused. Are they actually producing two versions of the dub - one with this content edited and one without?

Because I think I can forgive that. (Oddly enough, that's the same thing FUNimation did back in the day - offering the unedited version on DVD or something like that.)

It is weird how they try to clean up DBZ though. Sure, the series is for kids, but it's premise means it's going to be inherently violent - I guess they think enough younger children will be fans that they're willing to jump through these hoops to sanitize it?

What i think is happening is
DBZ Kai jp is the original
Funamation/Nicktoons Channel has their own edited version removing certain things
4Kids editted it even further making tvy7-able.

[Firocket1690]

So the DBZ cast will never be seen eating .. rice balls? I never understood that.

Why do they always edit the food? :/

[Tetsaru]

As far as I'm concerned, 4kids and DBZ (or any other anime) shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. Oops.

I hate how so many people believe that, just because something is a cartoon, or is animated, it automatically means it caters to a young demographic. Localization just tends to take a series and shred it to pieces... :disapprove:

[Outrider]

Except the Dragonball series IS for a young demographic. There's a reason why half the characters are talking animals.

DBZ aims for slightly higher with it's young teen demographic, but it's absolutely a series meant for kids and teens.

But there is definitely a difference in the animated TV market in Japan versus the US. If you want the largest potential audience with an animated show in the US, you generally have to skew to more of an all-ages audience, especially if the show is going to air during the prime animated time slot (Saturday mornings). Even relatively dark animated shows like Batman: The Animated Series or Gargoyles were suitable for an all ages audience, since they managed to deal with any death or violence without having to directly show it.

Unfortunately, DBZ is about big burly men punching each other and blowing planets up, so there's really no way to do it without directly showing it.

If they showed something like this on Adult Swim (or the old Toonami blocks) on Cartoon Network, they could probably get away with not having to edit it so much. Of course, then you run into the problem of showing what is essentially a pre-teen boy's power fantasy anime during a block aimed at adults, but that's a discussion for another day.

[Zyrusticae]

awful synthesizer music
Wait, what? Bruce Faulconer's soundtrack was wonderful! In fact it's one of the biggest things I missed when watching DBK in the first place! Sure, it wasn't until the Cell Saga that it really picked up, but still... how could anyone not love the various Buu themes? (Probably that saga's biggest redeeming quality, for that matter. That, and Vegito.)

Although I will admit that the DBK soundtrack also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhCn_q04qBk...

[Tetsaru]

Well, I didn't really start to get into anime until I was in my teens anyway. Probably the closest things to anime that I first saw as a kid that I can remember were Inspector Gadget, Power Rangers, and I think randomly watching part of Project A-Ko on Sci-Fi back when it still aired that kind of stuff. I later found out about Adult Swim, and my cousin got me into Cowboy Bebop, which to this day is still my all-time favorite anime series.

I just believe in keeping a series in its original form. When it's edited to all hell, it just becomes something it wasn't really meant to be, imo, and DBZ was subjected to a lot of that. However, when it comes to the subs vs. dubs argument, I'd say it really depends on the voice acting. Personally, I liked Cowboy Bebop in English better than I did in Japanese with English subtitles.

[Pirrip]

He's... He's... BLUE?! What the hell were they thinking? Jeez! Someone from the DNP(defense of Na'vi People) is going to have an issue now!

In all seriousness, what the hell?

[Neo Flint]

I just believe in keeping a series in its original form. When it's edited to all hell, it just becomes something it wasn't really meant to be, imo, and DBZ was subjected to a lot of that. However, when it comes to the subs vs. dubs argument, I'd say it really depends on the voice acting. Personally, I liked Cowboy Bebop in English better than I did in Japanese with English subtitles.

My thoughts exactly. I'm eighteen and DBZ is still one of my favorite shows ever. :-(

[Nitro Vordex]

I like listening to the English ones, because I hate it when they give the main characters a japanese man with his balls cut off. (Goku) Though to be fair, I think that actually was an old woman.

[Ishia]

I like listening to the English ones, because I hate it when they give the main characters a japanese man with his balls cut off. (Goku) Though to be fair, I think that actually was an old woman.

It was. She was like, 50-60 at the time.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

It was. She was like, 50-60 at the time.
Kami (Green hyperb time chamber owner) Hame Roshi (wife) Obachan -Ha?

It makes sense now.



No it doesn't. :(

[Tyreek]

It was. She was like, 50-60 at the time.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=508

Yep. she's 73 now. Did you also know she voiced Doug Funnie in the JP dub?

[AzureBlaze]

What did they do to Mr Popo??
I MUST KNOW!
(pics, anyone?)

I don't get the channel that has this obnoxiousness.

They DO know mr popo was NOT supposed to be "A racial stereotype" right? That he's some kind of Djinn / fantasy species of person? I mean, he has a flying carpet and none of the other characters (and I do mean none, people of many ethnicities are displayed in the show in a normal manner) looks like him. Like the dog & cat people, he's an entire fantasy creation. (Notice that the admiral of the navy is a dog-man)

It totally burns me that they're STILL doing this BS to DBZ after all these years.
And now they edited the halo too??
What the "HFIL" seriously?

If you remember HFIL, cookies to you, that was from the first butchered up attempts to change the demons' shirts.

[NegaTsukasa]

When I saw "4Kids" in your title I already knew where this was heading.
and I'm certainly not surprised.

[DragonForce]

I'm watching the subbed Kai episodes. We're at the part where 16 owns Cell!

[Ezodagrom]

This is kinda sad... ._.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/tanookikuribo/e-5.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/tanookikuribo/4-38.png
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a102/Ikaanu/MrPopo.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7034/farmersbullet.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4926/roshibeererrmilk.jpg

Also, TeamFourStar (Dragon Ball Z Abridge) already made a video with blue Popo. :>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76r7fjarhiQ

[Nitro Vordex]

I don't see what's wrong with the first picture.

[BIG OLAF]

I don't see what's wrong with the first picture.

They edited out the halo, and just made just made it a ball of light.

[Outrider]

Ouch - Mr. Popo is bright.

Also, what is the glowing thing Radditz is holding supposed to be? I don't recall.

[Ezodagrom]

Ouch - Mr. Popo is bright.

Also, what is the glowing thing Radditz is holding supposed to be? I don't recall.
It's supposed to be the farmer's shotgun bullet. :3

[Outrider]

It's supposed to be the farmer's shotgun bullet. :3

Ha ha, really?

Okay, this editing has gone beyond the "overly-cautious" approach that FUNimation originally used and gone way into the realm of "hilariously overboard."

Now I kind of want to watch the new dub simply to see what other ridiculous changes they've made.

[Nitro Vordex]

I want to see the scene where piccolo rips off his arm. Or when Vegeta gets a beam to the chest.

Or the ultimate edit, Frieza gets cut in half.

[Tyreek]

Since we know its a given, they will edit Cell absorbing that fat guy to pieces. Oh boy what will ensue there? That was a bit graphic though.

[Tetsaru]

This is kinda sad... ._.
[spoiler-box]
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/tanookikuribo/e-5.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/tanookikuribo/4-38.png
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a102/Ikaanu/MrPopo.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7034/farmersbullet.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4926/roshibeererrmilk.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

A BLUE Mr. Popo? REALLY?? It looks like they tried turning him into the fucking Genie from Disney's Aladdin... FUCKING REALLY!? *facepalm*

See, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about. If I was Akira Toriyama, I'd be pissed as hell about seeing my work bastardized like this... :nono:


Also, TeamFourStar (Dragon Ball Z Abridge) already made a video with blue Popo. :>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76r7fjarhiQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76r7fjarhiQ)

Lol, TeamFourStar does some great stuff. :wacko:

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

I see it now.



What does the scouter say about his



friendship

level?

[DragonForce]

I remember when they showed DBZ the Fox kids club a long time ago and they didn't censor this shit. They never should've let 4kids to get their hands on dragon ball.

[Outrider]

I see it now.



What does the scouter say about his



friendship

level?

Genius, my friend. Genius.

[Kion]

VG cats
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050418.jpg

Pretty much anything related to 4kids, you're better off ignoring completely and going straight to the source material.

[Polantaris]

LOL at the above comic. 4kids Naruto...they'd throw doughnuts instead of kunai.

[DragonForce]

I would die to see 4kids do Highschool of the Dead! xD

[Kion]

High school of the Dead doesn't need 4kids to suck.

I'm sure there are people who like the anime (for what it is; it is well done), i just hate the premise. It's way to ideal. There is no story, nothing the main characters are trying to achieve. They're just running around shotting zombies with two anime nerds and three over sexualized high school girls and one freaking huge boobed nurse. You can turn into a zombie from even minimal contact and those girls are running around in mini-skirts and booty shorts? The series goes way too far out of it's way to be a contradicting fan service with out any semblance of a plot.

But the opening intro is AMAZING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-3rWSLInhU

But back on topic; I actually like the American voices for DBZ better. They actually sound like what you'd think the characters would sound like. In Japanese Goku has way too high pitched a voice for me to watch it for any extended period of time.

[BIG OLAF]

The series goes way too far out of it's way to be a contradicting fan service with out any semblance of a plot.

Welcome to the wonderful world of recent Japanese animation. 95% of animes are nothing but this^ nowadays.

[Zyrusticae]

At least most of them have the sensibility to include a variety of body and personality types.

HotD, on the other hand... yeah. No. It's simply too patronizing for my tastes.

[Nitro Vordex]

So I've been watching one of the home movie Kais. It's not as horribly edited as the TV one, but it's still kind of edited. Though it's funny what they edit and what they miss.

For example, when Goku gets the Special Beam Cannon(which is now called by it's Japanese name, Makankōsappō ) It goes through him, of course. When it shows him on the ground, the hole is already healed up, or appears to be, and it's kind of shadowed over, and there's no blood. But when he passes away with that goofy smile on his face, there's blood on his face and neck.

[DragonForce]

I wonder how they're gonna edit the part when Cell kicks 16's head off and crushes it.

[Nitro Vordex]

I doubt they will. 16 is a machine after all, so they can get away with that.

Also, this dub has mild swearing. Heard Goku say "Damn!"

[Sayara]

Probably on the Funimation Channel.
on 4kidstv? Pllleeease
MR POPO IS BLUE

[FarenKar]

http://www.gameplayer.it/diziogame/immagini/akira_toriyama_1.jpg

Silly americanization makes Akira Toriyama giggle.

Personally, I never really cared for DBZ anything, even though I loved the original Dragonball. I like Akira Toriyama's other works more (like Sand land or Dr. Slump.) And he kinda went the way of Katsuhiro Otomo, in being known most for something he's tired of.

[Outrider]

being known most for something he's tired of.

You basically described every well-known artist ever.

[FarenKar]

You basically described every well-known artist ever.

True, but Katsuhiro Otomo is starting to become known for violently ranting against the fanbase for Akira. XD

Akira Toriyama hasn't done that, but he's admitted he hates DBZ in interviews and only kept doing it to pay bills.

[Nitro Vordex]

I'm gonna need to see sources for that statement.

[Neo Flint]

I think he's telling the true. It seems hard to believe but I've been hearing that Mr. Toriyama did dislike his own creation a lot. Understandable. I actually pity him. :-(

[Nitro Vordex]

Again, no sources.

[Outrider]

Yeah, Google isn't turning up anything to support that.

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah, I can only find that he doesn't want to draw Dragonball anymore, which is not the same thing as hating it at all. Sounds more like burnout to me (I mean, hell, after how many volumes he pumped out I can't say I'm surprised...)

[Nitro Vordex]

And the games, the movies, the DVD's, the extras, the cameos in Japan, the licensing rights, blah blah blah...

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

And he kinda went the way of Katsuhiro Otomo, in being known most for something he's tired of.
There's always going to be a market for Dragon Quest retro art, whatchu talkin bout?

[spoiler-box]

Made and didn't use this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/HAYABUSA-FMW-/wchutalkinboutarod.png

800 homeruns? lol no.
[/spoiler-box]

[DragonForce]

Instead of restarting DBZ a billion times without redrawing it, they need to make a new dragon ball series.

[Outrider]

Instead of restarting DBZ a billion times without redrawing it, they need to make a new dragon ball series.

Or they could just stop rehashing the series altogether and let something new take its place.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the Dragonball series while I watched it, and I'd love to play a new DBZ game with an original storyline instead of just running through the anime story over and over again, but sometimes you have to let something die with a little bit of dignity.

That's one of the neat things about Japanese manga versus mainstream Western comics - the stories eventually end, instead of keeping the characters in an unending storyline for decades (which can be cool in its own right, but certainly different.)

[Mitz]

Is that stuff true? It's pretty ridiculous if so.

It actually reminds me of the early Dragon Ball Z from back when I was in middle school, in which they would edit out a lot of the more violent scenes or dub in new lines to suggest that people didn't die (such as when Vegeta blows up a news chopper and someone goes, "Oh, I can see their parachutes, so everybody is okay!")

The funny thing is that FUNimation eventually loosened their censorship standards and tried to keep the show closer to the original Japanese version. It still had the awful synthesizer music, but it was definitely better.

I'm getting kind of a kick out of how history seems to be repeating itself.

You better not be talking be talking smack about Bruce Faulconer's music. I've had his music pumped into my ears every afternoon 16:30 sharp for years on end. However the censorship is and remains brutal. The show you mentioned, Yu-Gi-Oh, I never really got into that myself. However I'm a pretty professional player of the cardgame and it's the same bullshit, actually. Examples:


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080104005148/yugioh/images/thumb/7/7d/DonZaloogPH-JP-UR.jpg/119px-DonZaloogPH-JP-UR.jpg - http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080403224455/yugioh/images/thumb/6/6f/DonZaloogGLD1-EN-GUR.jpg/120px-DonZaloogGLD1-EN-GUR.jpg
Swords are much less violent and much more fun to stab your friends with.


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070505205013/yugioh/images/thumb/3/3f/TreebornFrogSOI-JP-R.jpg/119px-TreebornFrogSOI-JP-R.jpg - http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100725023814/yugioh/images/thumb/6/64/TreebornFrogGLD2-EN-C-LE.jpg/120px-TreebornFrogGLD2-EN-C-LE.jpg
In America, dead frogs aren't allowed into heaven.


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070812194830/yugioh/images/f/f6/BarrelDragonBE2-JP-UR.jpg - http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080923044048/yugioh/images/6/63/BarrelDragonMRD-NA-UR-1E.jpg
No dad keeps a star wars laser defense system locked in the back of their drawer so I guess it's ok.

[HeartBreak301]

Fighting anime + face punch censorship = ?

[EJ]

4kids and funamation are both horrible companies when it come to dubbing so the editing of DB Kai is not surprising to me. That way I watch the subtitle version online instead.

And really the naming of DBZ Kai is just redundant since DB Kai is the original name but guess the companies think the american audience are too dumb to realize it just a re-edit version of the original so they decide to to add the extra letter to show it not a new show.

Glad i gave up on funamation and those sort of companies that dub badly.

[Nitro Vordex]

Actually, FUNimation isn't THAT bad. It's more on 4Kids' part, and it's also to do with both companies' choices of audiences that they direct it at. DBZ being a beat the shit out of everything anime directed at 9-14 year olds. What the hell.

[Outrider]

And really the naming of DBZ Kai is just redundant since DB Kai is the original name but guess the companies think the american audience are too dumb to realize it just a re-edit version of the original so they decide to to add the extra letter to show it not a new show.

Actually, the whole "Dragonball Kai" thing is pretty misleading. It's already been established that Dragonball+[letter/name] means a new series (what with Dragonball being followed by Dragonball Z and GT), so using that logic it's not really clear that Kai is just the same thing as Z but with episodes cut from it and cleaner footage cropped to be widescreen.