All JP RPG's (worldwide release with loose translations) Proposal

[Professor Xavier]

「ファンタシースターユニバース」は、一人で冒険を楽しむ「ストーリーモード」とネットワークに接続して沢 山のプレイヤーとともに協力して冒険できる「ネットワークモード」の２つのモードに分かれてい ます。 バトルは仲間たちと協力して戦うリアルタイムアクションバトル！マイルームでのパートナーマシナリーの育成 やアイテムの生産など、その他のやりこみ要素も満載です。

To english with google translation.

"Phantasy Star", enjoy the adventure alone, "Story Mode" can be an adventure in cooperation with many players connected to the network mode "network" is divided into two modes. Battle Riarutaimuakushonbatoru working with colleagues to fight! Production of items such as training and Patonamashinari in my room is full of dents do other elements.

You can see above the problems with automatic translations. It is kind of loose non-sense. Or non-sensacle.

I am proposing for JP RPG's in development be loosely translated into several main worldwide languages. In theory most of us including myself would rather play an RPG loosely trasnlated with errors than wait an entire year for a perfect translation. This forum here now is a good example of what I speak of. Many of you here choose to play the JP version of PSO in JP language. Even though it is a very steap learning curve. It would be fun talking about loosely translated RPG's like maybe PSO 2 for PC. I am not suggesting there be a translator in the game themselves. But if the game developers put in thier game development from day 1. Translated text be a raw translation. The incentive for this is three fold. 1. We get to play an RPG sooner. We get to play RPG's never released in any other language. 3. Financially it would be very profitable for the game companies with incrased game sales. All they would have to do is make a license agreement that if we play a JP version the translation would not be perfect. It would take a while for this to happen. But I believe it could be the future of RPG's. Any Rpg made in any language Korean, Chinese, Japanese and language could be loosely translated to all main world languages. Translators will get better over time. This might be more incentive to make them better. There will be problems with my idea. But how cool would it be to play any game released anywhere with just a few grammer and non-sense translation errors. I can live with that and I bet a lot of others would too!

Please support this Idea with your comments!

[Kion]

Why would you want to play JRPG's to begin with? Also from what I can understand it doesn't seem like it's translation that takes up that much time. Generally the decision comes down to will this sell enough copies in the West to turn a profit?". If the answer is "possibly yes", then it moves on to a bunch of "he said, she said" bull shit where in the parties on both sides try to shift the responsibility of localizing it. Then the programmers slack off for a while, and then the sales team, and then a year later you finally get your bastardized RPG. But seriously, a side from the few exceptions, why would you want to play JRPG'S?

Edit: But on-topic it wouldn't even be very hard to write an algorithm for better translations from English to Japanese and JP to EN. Google translate each word at a time and since the respective grammars are different, you get a messed up result. By parsing each sentence into phrases, rearranging them and then translating you get a surprisingly decent result. I would try to accomplish such a feet, but I'm too lazy.

[CocoaTan]

A more efficient method would be to have text strings stored in an external source that isn't encrypted.

[SolomonGrundy]

A more efficient method would be to have text strings stored in an external source that isn't encrypted.

This is how many smart apps are built today

[Professor Xavier]

Why would you want to play JRPG's to begin with? Also from what I can understand it doesn't seem like it's translation that takes up that much time. Generally the decision comes down to will this sell enough copies in the West to turn a profit?". If the answer is "possibly yes", then it moves on to a bunch of "he said, she said" bull shit where in the parties on both sides try to shift the responsibility of localizing it. Then the programmers slack off for a while, and then the sales team, and then a year later you finally get your bastardized RPG. But seriously, a side from the few exceptions, why would you want to play JRPG'S?

Edit: But on-topic it wouldn't even be very hard to write an algorithm for better translations from English to Japanese and JP to EN. Google translate each word at a time and since the respective grammars are different, you get a messed up result. By parsing each sentence into phrases, rearranging them and then translating you get a surprisingly decent result. I would try to accomplish such a feet, but I'm too lazy.


I agree translations will get better. But the main reason they don't release Some eventually released RPG's in the U.S. and other countries is just time. I just takes to much time to make perfect translations for every language. It would slow down development and delay releases of most RPG's. I am proposing a compromise of sorts. Just ad a quick translation to the language chioces when you start the game. These translation should be easier and faster to implement then perfect translations. And I can tell you from experience waiting for the first sequal to the original Phantasy Star on Master System seemed like it took forever. The game was out in JP 12 months before release here. The idea here is not for a complete world wide release. Just give the game companires the option so sell s few thousand more copies. And for those who accept the loose translations, You get to play RPG's that may never be released in english. Plus some of us play through all the RPGS released here and want more.

The only other way is to learn JP.

[ashley50]

The only other way is to learn JP.

That's what I'm doing.

[SolomonGrundy]

CARPE FULGUR

[Ceresa]

If the RPG revolves around the story, why would I want to pay money for a shitty translation that I'll have to completely re-word in my head, assuming my brain cells live long enough after being exposed to some half-assed automated translation's atrocious grammar and word choice. They should be paying me.

And if the RPG is focused on the combat system like PSU, or Tales of, well fuck it. The story is some throwaway generic crap anyways, mashing X through the dialogue isn't a big deal.

Besides if the delay is really so long, then you should have plenty of time to learn JP in the meantime right? Of course, in reality, regardless of how long an individual title takes to get over, there's a constant deluge of shitty Square/Atlus/NISA RPGs every month to keep RPG players busy.

[Mike]

and Patonamashinari in my room is full of dents do other elements.
I know my PM was full of dents after it failed to make something.

Seriously though. I know there was a service for the open source community where users could submit translations or pick the best of previous similar translations for text. I don't remember what it was called though. But open source software and Japanese RPGs are different things. One is price. Another is quality. The user submitted/user generated translations are fine for things like menus, simple sentences, or other "mechanical" text. RPGs have a story though and user-generated translations don't always have the same quality as ones passed through translation firms.

EDIT: The service I was thinking of was Launchpad and is owned by Canonical, the company that distributes the Ubuntu Linux OSs.

[Professor Xavier]

I know my PM was full of dents after it failed to make something.

Seriously though. I know there was a service for the open source community where users could submit translations or pick the best of previous similar translations for text. I don't remember what it was called though. But open source software and Japanese RPGs are different things. One is price. Another is quality. The user submitted/user generated translations are fine for things like menus, simple sentences, or other "mechanical" text. RPGs have a story though and user-generated translations don't always have the same quality as ones passed through translation firms.

EDIT: The service I was thinking of was Launchpad and is owned by Canonical, the company that distributes the Ubuntu Linux OSs.


Coo---------------

[Kion]

The only other way is to learn JP.

Which I don't really recommend. You can spend several years learning Japanese, or you can wait just a little longer for games to come out. As far as Japanese as a language; I'm going to school at a Japanese college right now (passed JLPT level 1) and all I can say is that Japanese is completely worthless. Spoken Japanese is only used in Japan, and in Japan academics (math, chemistry, physics, psychology, economics, everything) is adopted from the West, meaning katakana. Learning Japanese is the equivalent of learning bad English.

Oh, and if you think it will impress the Japanese girls, you're wrong. Despite having blonde hair and blue eyes, the second fluent Japanese comes out of my mouth they walk away because suddenly I'm not exotic enough (that and I try to flirt by talking about brain science).

But as far as your proposal, it comes down to a change in implementation. I'm not exactly sure how things work, but the looks of it the problems with localizations seems to be
1) hardware - the companies have to make physical disks. so they need to calculate if the sales are going to be enough to cover their costs and actually make a profit.
2) 4kids - Sort of, generally there a couple things in Japanese culture that not everyone will understand, often companies fell the need to alter the media to fit a Western audience. Also voice actors need to be hired.
3) Programming - Not entirely sure on this one, but I'm pretty sure what people say is written in the code of the game, so even if you have a translation you still need programmers to implement it. Seems pretty messy.

Basically if you want JRPG's sooner (why I still don't understand), then a new distribution method needs to be implemented. For distribution, a download system would be much easier; then all you need is a server, which you can put freaking anywhere and you don't need to worry about inventory. For the second point, I really don't think games or any media needs to be localized. I hate dubs (with a passion) and think everything should be in it's original language (with the exception of MGS, David Hayter and everyone in general sounds much better than the original game. FF10 on the other hand just needs to die). As for translations, they really just need to make it so they can easily change the text later on.

Translation is actually the easiest part in this process. If you check gamefaqs, one guy translated everything in Fatal Frame 4 for the Wii in a short period of time, Espio has no problem bringing news to the site from the JP side the day it's released, and I've been able to read out loud in the opposite language translating on the fly at pretty decent speeds (with limitations and grammatical errors, but mostly correct).

Basically what you want is something like PSO (where you could simply select the interface language from options), available for download with a world wide release. I think everyone wants this and that it will happen eventually. They problem with Japan is simply that they are very very stupid. TV Tokyo; Naruto, Bleach and anime is general is one of the most popular mediums and some of the most watched shows in the world. The could be profiting by source subbing and streaming it on their own site and have millions of viewers every week to add to ad revenue. Instead, what do they do? Abso-fucking-lutely nothing except bitch and complain about how the internet is "stealing" from them. The internet is not stealing from them as they can't claim profits from people they don't sell to. Also all of my Japanese classmates actually go to spanish, korean and chinese sites to watch anime because there's no proper online distribution method in Japan. News papers, videos, all media in Japan is sling clinging to a strong brick and mortar store basis. The only way things will change is if Sony wises up and changes their distribution method (which is looks like they are in the process of).

[Sinue_v2]

Aside from many other text to speech, speech to speech, and text to text translators being able to crank out quickie translations (sans any "special items" who's names, or name use, aren't a part of any formal language) - you're still going to need a professional translator for Quality Assurance, and the decent (see: still pretty shitty) translators are probably going to cost a mint for corporate use.

Directly translating via software or quick & lazy runs into the problem wherein the meaning or effect of the dialog translated is utterly lost, despite having a high percentage of accuracy in it. Translating from a foreign language is very much like rewriting the entire game over again, basing it on an original work. The words and scenarios may differ if they are to make sense in the new language, but the meaning and effect are (ideally) the same. Automated translators (as well as inexperienced translators) can't gauge intent or context well, and subsequently suck at it.

No company is going to put their product out on the market while providing you with a "rough" translation which may give a false impression of the game's quality. It's easier and safer to just let you wait for it, buy a localized version, and then possibly be dissapointed. Importers wouldn't really be an impetus for them to do it either, as making a territory wait for it's own localization will reflect more accurately what the demand is for the title, and what niches to exploit. They need that market data so they can compete better on a global scale. Atlus makes it's bank selling foreign audiences games that they otherwise wouldn't have bothered with, as their localization efforts are geared towards satisfying specific niches and in doing so - changing certain scenarios/dialog to their own script during localization. They, at times, actively stray into their own territory and away from it's original meaning to provide something more palatable for western audiences.

There's also censorship issues which could adversely affect marketing. Releasing Japanese games over here which have been "roughly translated" might cause a bit of culture shock, or upset certain morally based institutions who don't share similar cultural values. For instance, Sega's converting of Ustvestia in PSII from a homosexual man giving discounts to the "cute" guys in your party, into misogynist who values male intelligence - giving them discounts for being "smart", while charging the girls full price. It's apparent now how fucked up that line of thinking is, but that was the predominant cultural values at the time... and still are for certain communities. Seems to me to be that it's better to avoid the possibly of negative media attentions/slander by having the translation done proper.
'


Perhaps an option for 360/PS3 players to download "subtitle language packs" for games a few months old, and long enough for a more proper translation for other territories without putting unnecessary strain on the release deadlines. Still, even that seems a bit too far fetched considering most consoles/handhelds are region locked. Importers just aren't that significant of a market to persuade them to make concessions for.



all media in Japan is sling clinging to a strong brick and mortar store basis.

All media in general is like that. Hard copies of a product are easier to monitory and regulate, while digital mediums are notoriously susceptible to piracy. Most companies, even anime studios, are starting to switch over to subscription based content which allows you a wide range of access to content for a small monthly fee. Funimation seems to be the most visible studio doing this that I've seen. They have a great deal of content (subed and dubbed) available online via sites like Hulu and YouTube. I don't think advertiser revenue will really cover the cost of bandwidth and maintenance on their own internal servers, and Hulu/YouTube might be able to cover this - but even if you watched an entire season's obligatory commercials, they're only going to get a pittance of what they would if they sold you a two-to-three episode (out of a 12 to 24 episode series) DVD for $19.95 each.

They're changing their business models to accommodate new services and tech. I can't fault them for dragging their heels on this, especially when they have role models in much larger media markets who are also similarly dragging their heels where ever they can't establish a market infrastructure for overwhelming control over digital purchases, distribution methods, and usage terms... one of the reasons they're also fighting to keep physical content delivery methods (DVD, BluRay, Etc) relevant for as long as possible. Lack of infrastructure, and lack of control.

[Professor Xavier]

I gather from PSU's history they didnt want to share their servers with the rest of the world. Either that or to be fair to XBOX 360 players they held back the PS2/PC version in english because they had to do extra programing on the 360 format. Given the 360 version less poplulated than the JP version. And holding back the 360 version would have had the same negative effect as did holding back both version. Either way both choices were wrong. It must have been economic choice. Which is funny because its has most likely cost them loyalty of a lot of Phantasy Star fans.

So the new choice to release the newer version of PSO2 in JP first may just be so they can release the the english version later. They just don't want to be bothered with the extra exspene of hiring one or two translators so they can have a world wide release. What are they affraid of?

If they just don't like us hacking cheating glitching. Why dont they just do a world wide release and have a different set of servers for they rest of us. Language alone should not cause more than a weeks delay in updates. They have lost how many countless PSU players over the past three years since the servers seprated. And a few from the server closer. So what what you are all saying is that its all on SEGA and we should not let them off the hook.

You know all of this goes gainst the original PSO in the first place. Remember this commercial.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbE7p8NcWTY

[Kion]

With consoles, it's not exactly Sega's fault. Companies won't let their servers be connected, so SoJ ended up having three platforms; PS2/PC JP, PS2/PC NA and X360. It looks like they spent most of their time keeping JP updated and were planning on doing NA on the side which turned out to not work so well. They had to deal with cheating on the NA server, and they were doing other projects with PSZ and PSP on the side. I think it wasn't intentional as much as they had larger priorities.

With Phantasy Star it's the PC version that does the best. Blue Burst went for a really long time, and barely anyone plays on PS2 version of PSU anymore. With PC's you have more control over the updates, downloadable content and the server. So by making PSO2 PC only, i think they may keep the servers linked and updated by focussing on one platform.

[RemiusTA]

Or we can all just pray for them to do what Square Enix and many other games are doing these days, and just simultaneously develop the game in all languages it's going to be released in....

Translation isn't that hard. It's just that they dont give a fuck. Unless we get an early confirmation that PSO2 is going to be released in US/EU, then expect the same bullshit with PSO2 that we got with PSPo2 and PSU.