View Full Version : Phantasy Star I, II, & IV - Q&A
11-05-2010, 02:34 AM
As I mentioned in another thread within Classic General, I am an avid fan fiction writer for the classic games. As I do deeper research into the games that are relevant to the Algol System (I, II, IV) I find myself accumulating more and more questions and stumbling upon questionable facts from questionable sources along the way. It is my hope that you guys help to answer these questions. I'll start with what I can remember off-hand. I have watched entire playthroughs of PSI and II so far and from what I can see, there is no mention of a lot of the details I'm digging up. There are some really deep details that I'm finding that just don't seem to show up in the games and I'm wondering if they even have a valid source. Before I submit a serious fan fiction (and begin writing the movie script for Phantasy Star Prime 2), I want to be able to separate fact from fiction.
1) I have read on at least two different sites (cited below) that the Algol System from the classic titles exists within the Andromeda galaxy, yet I don't remember any mention of that within the games. Upon further research, I found that there is also a star named Algol that is approximately 100 light years from Earth. Is this purely conjecture, or does this claim originate from a valid source?
2) Before I continue my research, can anyone tell me if the background information on the Fringes of Algol (second site) is true? Take the biography below for example. The site gives an explanation of Nero, Alis' brother, that is way more elaborate than anything you could possibly derive from the original title. It even has his height, job title, etc! Were these new details released with the remake, Phantasy Star Generation: 1? I'm finding details on everything classic Phantasy Star-related on that site that are exaggerated to that degree and I'm wondering if any of it is true.
This is a very important topic for me, as silly as it may sound, so I appreciate you all helping me. Not only do I take my fan-fiction writing seriously, but I am also a member of a group of independent filmmakers who strive to end the trend of horribly written, horribly thought-out, poorly researched video game films (fan film, in this case, though we shoot for Hollywood quality, or at least close to it).
11-05-2010, 09:57 AM
1) It's never mentionned in game per say. But yes, this Star system do exist in real life near (well "near" is a big word) our own star system. Surely the name was inspired by that, and that may also explain why we have men from Earth at the end of PSII. But no, they will never tell you in-game "Only at 100 light-years of our own star system exist the Algol Star System". All there is, is a source of inspiration.
2)You mean the adoption part and all? Yes it's true. Various source are found in the official Phantasy Star compendium and such others official book. For translation of the Phantasy Star Compendium, go there: http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ps.htm
Read everything on this page, it's the best source of translated official info, and will help you get a better start for your fanfic. Most interresting part is the translated official timeline, filling some gap in-between the games, or before the original game.
PS: If you have questions for the classic saga, you should really join the community at Fringes of Algo (I'm always there). The site is one of the last place mostly dedicated to the classic saga still alive, and it's really a fun place to hang in general.
11-05-2010, 11:29 AM
So, yes, I can trust all information at Fringes? I thought about joining, but wanted to make sure their information was legit first. The Andromeda question is still a bit fuzzy though. On the one hand, it would make more sense for the humans to have arrived in II if Algol was in the Milky Way, but on the flip side, Gurhal takes place in another galaxy, as stated in the cinematic intro to every story chapter in Universe, so either the humans or natives of Andromeda would have had to develop intergalactic travel. Also, our local Algol system, from what I have read, has three stars.
11-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Like I said, they just took the name from reality. The rest is purely fictional. When creating your fanfiction, I don't think mentionning the proximity of our Star System and the one of Algol is really important. If you have to talk about the Earthmen, just let it the way it is right now: The Earth being really a mysterious planet from an unknown location to the people of Algol.
And most informations at Fringes of Algo come from official source, so yes, you can trust them.
11-05-2010, 03:34 PM
My dilemma with the proximity and location of the system is actually pretty crucial to the writing. The situation with the 4-part film saga (without giving too much away) is that it takes place roughly 1,000 years before PSI on Earth. Basically, they have already colonized the moon (or Luna, as the first film describes it) and Mars, and now have their sights set on the Algol System (Palma in particular) I don't know how many of our potential viewers will be reading this particular thread, but I suppose it would make more sense if I described a bit of the core driving plot of the 4 films.
Basically, the white-haired bearded man (aka the leader of the Earthmen at the end of PSII) is originally from an alternate timeline far into the future (roughly around the PSU era). He comes from a time when the human race has conquered a great number of inhabitable planets within the Milky Way Galaxy and has established intergalactic travel. Naturally, the first thing that the human race instinctively does with this technology is attempt further conquest. They travel to the Andromeda Galaxy where the first solar system they encounter is Algol. At this point, the alternate universe Algol is not much unlike that of the Gurhal PSU nature. They have pretty much the same technology. The humans wage war on Algol prematurely and are fought back. Protecting themselves from further attack by the Earthmen, the people of Algol begin building a fleet of warships to protect their borders. In light of their recent defeat, and seeing the fleet progression of their enemies, the Earthmen declare an all-out intergalactic war on the Algol System. At this particular point in time, Algol's resident technology outpaces that of the Earthmen and its superiority is shown in the battlefield of the vaccum. Eventually, the Earthmen are driven completely back into the Milky Way and, over time, are put on the defensive.
Back to the bearded man from PSII. In the films, we decided to give him a bit more of a background. In this alternate timeline, he was an A-Photon research physicist living on Zarmina (the newly discovered Earth-like planet we just recently discovered IRL). He had been kept abreast of the current events of the war and was a passionate human extremist. He was put in charge of a project to reverse-engineer the technologies procured during battle with the Algolians. One day, Zarmina was caught off guard by warship cannons from orbit. The only thing going through the middle-aged man's mind during the bombardment was, "If only we had a second chance, we would be prepared. We would get the job done RIGHT!" Then he suddenly recalled a pet project he had been working on over the years utilizing the physics of A-Photons and anti-matter. It was a hand-held piece of tech he had been working on to be a crude prototype for a time-travel device, though he wanted to keep it to himself until he had perfected it. He figured that if he was going to die that day, he was going to die trying to save humanity. He quickly grabbed a data disc that contained all his research over the years and his pet bio-monster (which was still an infant incubating in a small tank/jar), punched in a few coordinates on his device, and vanished before the facility caved in on him.
He arrived on Earth roughly 50-100 years from now (no specific date will be given, as we can't project how soon the moon and Mars will really be colonized, and we want to maintain the validity of the information in the film. Yeah, we're kind of finicky like that). He chose Earth at that specific time for several reasons. He had heard of the planet Earth being the original home of the human race (in his time, it had already fallen victim to the death of our sun), and also, he knew that the technological research he possessed from the future would mean leaps and bounds for the human race in the past. He knew that he would be able to get a leg up on the Algolians if he arrived at that particular place and time. He wasn't about to just hand over his research to the government however. He was going to use his knowledge of the future to gain control over the corporations of the world and spearhead his ambition to destroy those who nearly wiped out his people and take over the Algol System, not only for the real estate in the name of humankind, but now, for the added insult that Earthmen would settle on the planets where the graves of billions of Algolians would lie.
The bearded man quickly devised a false identity for himself and assimilated within the shadows of the corporate ladder. He was very selective of who he gave what technologies to. First, he laid out a long-term revenge plan, then looked into the progress and prosperity of local industries. Eventually, he approached an advanced technology and munitions corporation called FiestCorp with the NanoTransformer and photon-based weapon technologies. After sitting back and seeing if the technology would catch on with modern scientists, he then turned his research into the proposed 'Mother Brain' project over to a rival company (working name). After fitting two of the world's largest technology/munitions corporations neatly into his pocket and encouraging them to play nice with each other, he quickly began a program to build a new kind of starship, one capable of faster-than-light, intergalactic travel. He eventually calls the ship Noah, after his son who was lost in the Algolian war.
Thus begins his plot to wipe out the Algolians before they outpace mankind.
Also, in regard to his claim that mankind was responsible for the death of the Earth, that is a plot twist in the films that I don't want to give away just yet, but I promise that it is validated.
That is pretty much the backstory to the films. I haven't mentioned anything from the actual films to the public though, save for a select few, just to see what kind of reaction we would get. The first film is completely written and this backstory will gradually come into the light over time beginning with the second film. The first film focuses mainly on a new set of heroes fighting FiestCorp and, eventually, Dark Falz.
Dark Falz, that is another elaborate story in the films.
In the films, he appears on Earth to possess William Fiest, the CEO of FiestCorp and the most influential figure in the modern corporate food chain. In the films, Dark Falz has encountered Earth once before. Rather than re-type the explanation, I am going to reveal a small excerpt from the first movie:
!!!!! SPOILER ALERT !!!!!
(To put it into context, Arthur is the middle-aged uncle of William Fiest and was, until recently, a revered astronomer, until be hit the streets preaching about doomsday. The three protagonists, Neon, Michael, and Sarah, find him in a local library pouring over texts of ancient Mayan culture. They approach him to ask about his claims of doomsday, because both parties agree on one thing: William Fiest needs to be removed from power as soon as possible. He tells them to keep an open mind about what he is about to tell them.)
In the ancient Mayan city-state of Palenque, there once lived a great and powerful ruler named Lord Pakal. At the age of 12, Pakal ascended the throne and became the leader of his people. At some point during his thirteenth year in power, a strange celestial body eclipsed the sun. Since that event occurred, Lord Pakal seemed to exhibit inhuman behavior and immense, godlike power. The Mayans saw this and were quick to warship Pakal himself as a god. Now, the current belief is that Pakal eventually had two sons, Chan Bahlum and Kan Xul, both of whom assumed the throne after his death. I can assure you, however, that Pakal, in fact, bore three sons. His third son was named Janaab Pakal the Third. It was this son that saw his father for who and what he really was. It was recorded that he believed his father was possessed by some kind of 'dark force', the essence which gave him his power. He gave a name to this force, but the translation is still up for debate. It translates roughly to either 'Dark Force' or 'Dark Falz'. I personally believe it to be the latter. Pakal the Third described this force as an essence that permeates all living things, bending them to its will and deteriorating their forms over time. Even though Pakal the Third and his two brothers were born after the ominous planet settled between the sun and the Earth and they all carried the taint of this dark force in their blood. Young Pakal knew that there was no way to save his family or his people from the clutches of the dark force. So, while he still kept some of his sanity intact, without saying a word, he left his people for good. Some time after Lord Pakal's death, the essence of this dark force gathered the ensnared Mayan populace and ascended to the planet above, which has been roughly translated to be called, 'Rykros'. It was then that the planet that lingered above for so many years finally left our solar system on a rogue path throughout the galaxy.
Wait, so you're saying that William Fiest is-
Is the direct descendant of Lord Pakal. Not only that, but he is also in a position of great power. With the right influence, he could possibly rule the world if he played his cards right.
A world run by William Fiest is not a world that I plan on living in.
It's not what William is that you should be concerned with, but what he will become. Rykros is coming back. It will eclipse the sun once again and the dark force that dwells within it will select the most powerful and influential of Lord Pakal's descendants to be its vessel.
What makes you so sure of all of this? What makes you think the taint still exists, assuming it ever existed at all?
When Rykros left our solar system, the darkness left behind in young Pakal's blood became inert. Now that the dark essence of Rykros is returning, the taint is awakening within each and every one of Pakal's descendants. Over the centuries, it has had time to assimilate and evolve silently within our gene pool. As the taint is reawakening from centuries of slumber, I feel the effects of the return of Dark Falz, as I know William must be feeling it as well. It’s… quite painful to say the least.
Does he know about this?
No. He never cared to listen. He was always more concerned with the here and now.
Why did you say that no one of your bloodline should be allowed to hold a position of power?
If events unfold the way they did centuries ago, Dark Falz will target the most influential person around to play his primary host. Were it anyone else in his position, it would take some time before that person would fall completely under Falz's control, and maybe people would have time to notice and respond, but where William already has the touch of Dark Falz in his blood, the process would probably be almost instantaneous. If this were to happen, I doubt anyone would be able to stop him. I'm afraid that the fate of the world will be determined within the next few days.
... Cool story, bro. I really hope we don’t encounter this 'fantasy star' of yours.
[Sarah elbows Michael in the side]
***** END EXCERPT *****
As far as Rykros being a native of the Andromeda galaxy, that too will be clarified within the films. It is yet another detail I want to keep a mystery until the films are released.
But yeah, that's basically the backstory to the films in general. It's kind of like what they did in the Star Trek movie with the timelines, only the reverse of that. The timeline caused by the time travel becomes the main continuity for the game series. As I'm sure you can probably tell, I am a very detail-oriented writer and the location of the Algol System, as well as other small details, could prove crucial in getting these movies right. Unlike Hollywood, we believe very strongly in doing a video game franchise justice within the film industry and we don't want to disappoint as single fan as far as getting the lore right goes. I myself have been a fan since the early 90's and would be equally disappointed if we got something wrong. I see this saga we're building as a beautiful work of art. Well, more like an adaption to a currently existing work of art, but you get the idea.
Also, if I've gotten something wrong in any of the story material that I just posted, please let me know. This particular script is still subject to changes and has undergone many rewrites as a result of finding new details about the source material.
If you've managed to make it this far, I congratulate you and appreciate you taking the time to read all this! I can get pretty wordy sometimes. :P
11-05-2010, 06:30 PM
I will take the time to read it all...BUT I want to tell you about one thing where I stopped reading for now. Are you sure you want to connect PSU to the classic saga? Even if this is an alternate timeline, PSU and the classic saga are in no way related to each other, as stated by Sega themselves (plus many phan, me included, don't like to mix the classic saga with the other series, more "online" oriented).
Anyway, more comments will follow, after I finish reading this later
11-05-2010, 07:01 PM
Hmm, I figured that PSU was within the same continuity, albeit in the distant future from PSO. So you're saying that PSI-IV aren't related to any other games in the series, including PSZ and PSO? When I originally thought of the idea for the film, I wanted to figure out a way to work in the PSU-style photon weapons without ruining the story. I don't consider PSU to be as epic as the rest of the games in the series (in fact, it almost feels like they tried to reboot the series with it due to all the similarities to the original series), but the one thing I really like about PSU is the weapon styles. Plus, without the fancy, futuristic photon weapon/NanoTransformer technology, the rest of the films' plot kind of falls apart.
Hmmm... I need to rethink a few things...
11-05-2010, 08:50 PM
Indeed, PSU is in no way related to the classic saga. In fact, according to Sega, PSO, PSU, Zero, and the Classic saga were all their own little world. Just sharing some of the similar name a la Final Fantasy (similar name, totally different universe). And yes, even Zero and PSO were confirmed to be NOT LINKED, even with the mention of Coral...
NOW, that was before Sakai, the current producer for the Phantasy Star series totally BS on everything. You see, when PSU was initially released, in an interview, he stated that PSU had no link to any previous series...at all. As the years passed, he started to put more and more PSO cameo in PSU, to satisfy the fan...and now in 2010, he made a total 180 on his previous statement, by saying that Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity (part of the Univese saga) will officially link with the Online Saga.
You see, since he can come back on what he said 4 years later, there's no way to know if maybe later down the road, he'll try to kill the continuity of the classic saga, and link it to PSU and PSO too. But the series were never made originally to be linked to begin with. So I really hope from all my heart that Sega will stay true to their word, and let the classic saga as its own world, blocking Sakai in any attempt he may have to destroy the memories of this wonderful series (Talking about the classic saga here, everything starting with Online, I consider it to be another series totally, just using the Phantasy Star name to make some cash with a boring hack-and-slash grind fest without any good story)
11-06-2010, 02:43 AM
When it comes right down to it, I have to agree with you entirely. I liked PSO, even though its controls were rigid and the gameplay was repetitive, but PSU, even with it's flashy Photon Art mechanic, wears dull after a while. It's a vicious loop really. Kill things to get stronger to kill bigger things to get even stronger. It's a game of numbers. The classics had a very engaging story that you could really get immersed in. The newer stories are kind of... meh.
Now what I can do, without making any major changes to the writing, is say that in the old man's native timeline (the alternate timeline) they went to war with the Algol System chronologically after PSIV and after the people of Algol had advanced to the point of developing photon weapons and NanoTransformer technology (without being in any way related to PSU. They had just advanced to that point.). I know it sounds like it may still be a slight anchor to the PSU series, but like the rappy and other common ingredients, I suppose the photon weapons/NanoTransformers could be another common element among certain select universes, though implemented in different ways (in this case, the Earthmen come into possession of this technology before the people of Algol could even conceive of it. It seems like the old man's native timeline, where it is completely fictional anyway, might be an open canvas as long as it is post PSIV.
I want your honest opinion, as a very knowledgeable fan of the classic games, how do you feel on this take? You are pretty much a prime specimen of the target audience we're trying to reach. If you heard of an upcoming Phantasy Star film(s) that was going to add on to the classic continuity in the form of a prequel that tells the Earth side of that time period, makes a plethora of plot tie-ins to the classic PS titles, both major and subtle, and tells the Earthmen perspective of the events of PSII and you heard beforehand that the backstory was going to consist of what I just described to you (the modified version in this particular post, patching the rest of what I posted in my earlier, gigantic post. Let's pretend you read it in a magazine or an online article), what would be your personal take on it?
11-06-2010, 09:31 AM
You know, way before PSO was released, fan of the series find the best way to make the earthmen appear in Algol was to use Phantasy Star III. One of the ending of Phantasy Star III was that Dark Force managed to make the spaceship Alisa III go through a Black hole...The result was that the Alisa III went through time and space, and when they emerged, they arrived right in front of the Earth. Now this is a fact.
What become speculation before PSO was that the Earthmen used the technology find inside the Alisa III to build their own spaceship program. Also, since the Alisa III came from Algol, this is how they manage to find the coordinate of it.
For a long time, it was the best fan-theory everyone could agree on. Then Sega created PSO, and this theory was rejected. After that many other Universe was created. Zero used both the Earth and Coral name for the planet we were on, making it a possible link to both the classic series and the Online series...both once again, Sega said "No, it's his own entity"
So to this point, I guess that everything is possible. How would I feel if PSU was linked a little to the classic series (well not really from what I read from your last point, but you can see my point)? Being a big phan of the old PSIII theory for the earthmen, I would feel a little bit sad...BUT to this point, and how Sakai is handling the series, everything could be possible. So I'll say go for it. Alternate timeline and universe can always explain many things easily...though a story with the earthmen not touching any other saga is very much possible using only what the classic saga is using.
PS: I still have to read the big synopsis. So some of my comments may yet still be a little bit off
11-06-2010, 11:01 AM
I Want to make all the fans happy, or at least as many as possible, with these films, but considering the weapons are currently being made, I will keep the PSIII theory as a possible selection before we actually start shooting. Steel swords can be easily bought.
It's funny, because I learned of that particular PSIII ending and watched the video of it on YouTube the other night and all I could say in response was, "Oh... snap... that is awesome." It was from that point on that my head began spinning with possible ways to work the worldship arriving in orbit around the Earth into the second film (before the movie heroes leave the Earth). I feel like I really want to implement that particular arc into the films in some way. I figure, as long as I'm telling the classic saga from Earth's perspective, I might as well include that feature as well. It has a lot of potential. I'm still trying to work it around how their arrival will affect the old man's vendetta against the Algol system and how it would affect the departure of the starship Noah, bound for the Algol system.
I can't help but grin whenever I think about how I want to portray one scene in the fourth and final film that the fans would particularly appreciate. I haven't thought it out thoroughly yet, but at some point, Noah will be in the Algol system, relatively close to Palm (I'm going to stick with the planet names from PSI, even when reenacting scenes from PSII, like the controversial cliffhanger, which I can't WAIT to film! I have such an epic idea for it while still leaving you wanting more! Would fans hate me for keeping the planet names that way? I just want to keep them consistent). Anyway, the blader/hunter class (if you will, though it's not specified as such a detail in the films) hero of the films, Neon, is in a control room with the old man (aka 'leader of the Earthmen'). The old man (project codenamed, 'John Q. Beardman'. Don't worry, it's just a placeholder name until we think of a fitting name for the character. We just thought it was hilarious.)has been sitting back and enjoying watching what the Mother Brain has been doing on Palma and Motavia, but Neon interrupts at some point. As a last ditch effort to take his revenge before possibly being killed (though he escapes this scene), he punches a few commands into a console and a vid screen turns on, showing a satellite beginning to plummet to Palma. The old man makes a comment about taking care of two birds with one stone. Neon asks him what he means and the old man manages to escape. Now, only people who have played the games would understand what the old man was referring to, but it's not enough to entirely confuse the general audience. They would probably just shrug it off.
By the way, on a side note, I just checked out your impressive classic collection! Phantasy Star III was my first game too. The dungeon theme was always the most catchy jingle that stuck with me. I have it on a CD in my car, as well as the opening theme to PSIII (both in their original 16-bit forms). I did it so that I could think of ideas for the PS movies while on the go. I've decided to implement the opening theme to PSIII in a funeral scene in the first film and the PSIII dungeon theme, revamped to sound slightly more militarized, for a scene in the second film where a CEO named Klaudya animates one of the fruits of her company's labor, and entire army of CASTs. (in these films, the CASTs are another form of technology taken from the post PSIV Algolians. Who's to say they don't create them eventually? :P Plus, the CAST concept is a bit too fargone. After I wrote the script for the first movie, there are two characters in particular that I instantly fell in love with. One being Arc the bounty hunter, and the other being the man-made prototype CAST, Epsilon. In the second film, they will be spending a great deal of time together, and I can't wait for those two to interact! They will become crowd favorites, I know it. :P
Also, I have that PSIII hint book too. :D (The first one with the standard black checkered SEGA pattern and features full color screenshots, art, and charts)
11-07-2010, 09:15 AM
You sure seem to have grand project for those films, and it's really great to see someone with so much passion for the series and want to learn every info he can get to make a better story :)
About my collection, yes, I'm really a phanatic collector. Back then I was also collecting "everything" Phantasy Star related. I still own many soundtrack, artbook, japanese/american players guides, figures, and of course games for the Online, Universe, Zero and Portable (the same as Universe series, but anyway) series. But really, ever since Phantasy Star IV, I was only on board because of my love for the classic series. Everytime there was something "Phantasy Star" related, I was buying it, even though I was not loving at all the online iterations. To me, the Phantasy Star games needed to have a good story and unfortunately, it was never the case....And finally, after vomiting the pathetic excuse for a story that was Phantasy Star Portable 2, I just totally gave up any hope for the future. Add to that the stupid Sakai comment about linking the Universe saga and Online saga (believe me, it will be a total train wreck), I finally opened my eyes to the true. Phantasy Star was just about mindless grinding and repetition, and was dead since Phantasy Star Online was created...maybe it took me too much time to realize it, maybe I was still trying to believe, but at one point, I was tired of wasting money on boring games like those. So I removed a lot of my collection from my collection page, and now I only keep anything "classic saga" related.
Sorry for the rant...I know it's not my place to do so on a website dedicated to the online iterations, but that's why the only place I hang out now on PSO-World is the classic saga sub-section, and why everytime I see a post here, I try to answer the best I can
11-08-2010, 08:44 AM
EDIT: I've finally read your synopsis. There's one part where it bothers me. This whole ware between the Earth and Algol. Granted it's an alternate universe and anything is possible, let's assume that the Algol who wage war is in the same continuity as the classic saga. Where exactly does it takes place? Are we talking thousand of years after PSIV?
Because there's only one time in the story where Algol had the technology to have spaceship that travels outside Algol, and it's in the era between PSI and PSII
Proof of that is found in Phantasy Star Gaiden, where Alis colonized Alisaland, in another Star System. And the other proof is Phantasy Star III itself, which we all know by now, was happening on spaceship fleeing Parma "during" Phantasy Star II.
Other than that, there was no "direct" war possible with the Earthmen. After the fall of Mother Brain, the Algolian lost pretty much all knowledge to build enough technology to wage an intergalactic war. At the end of PSIV, while some articial system were still functional to handle the environement and life on Motavia and Dezolis, it was not yet ready to go back to PSI and PSII level of technology...in the state it was, I can even speculate that it would takes thousands of years for Algol to have the technology to do a war this big
And well, if it really happens SO FAR in the future, what would be the point to link it with Algol? The time between each Phantasy Star was actually 1000 years. A long time, but not big enough that all trace connecting it to previous games might disapear. If we're talking 5000-10000 years, how will we find trace of the previous games "great" enough to make a significant impact on those having played the classic saga? The easy answer would be "Oh but Lutz descendant still exists"...but without the profound darkness existing, Algol is pretty much safe, so Lutz presence is not as required as before to keep Algol in check (In fact, does the Protector role even exists anymore? You talk about Rykros, but without the Profound Darkness, even this Planet goal is dead. The Seal has no more sense)
Now, I will leave you on the only note given by Rieko Kodama herself when she was asked about a possible Phantasy Star V back then. It was a question of knowing if Dark Force was really evil, and if the Great Light was really good. The only mystery left for us after Phantasy Star IV is: What happened with the Great Light. They are pretty vague and La Roof only tell us that it went somewhere else...now that would be a fun thing to explore.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that (now, it's only my pure imagination, nothing of it is a fact), without the Profound Darkness, the Seal have no meaning. Here's a crazy scenario, after thousands of years without any threat, the Algol Start System indeed build back their technology. But over the years, the star which was the focal point holding Profound Darkness begin to fall on itself. Without any energy to feed it (because of the lost of the primary goal of the Star System), it will collapse, thus destroying the entire system. At this point, this is where the Lutz descendant might step in, bringing the only mean possible to recover the system. Find the Great Light in the Universe, and ask him directly to create a new goal for Algol to exist. Is it possible, or is the only way to make Algol avoid destruction is to bring back a new destructive force and seal it...thus maybe repeating the old vicious circle.
This was my idea for many years after the end of Phantasy Star IV if we had to bring the Great Light back in action. And it would also bring inter-galactical travel.
Anyway, it was just a random idea, don't mind me.
11-09-2010, 01:44 AM
Sorry, I'm back. You kind of threw me for a loop there. Clearly your knowledge of the classic saga far exceeds my own, but then again, that's why I'm seeking help and doing research after all, so that we get this right and don't disappoint anyone. You have really helped us out a lot with your guidance so far. You have really helped me to iron out a lot of things that may have lead to inconsistencies in the future.
Your claim makes perfect sense when you think about it. However, in the alternate timeline from which the old man is from, humanity had long enough to colonize nearly the entire Milky Way before venturing out into the Andromeda Galaxy for further conquest. Chronologically speaking, one could assume that it dates far beyond PSIV, but then again, according to how events unfolded in the timeline we're speaking of, there could have never been a Great Collapse around the "PSII-paralleled" timeframe due to the fact that, in this alternate timeline, humanity was too busy conquering its own galaxy, thus giving the Algolians time to develop uninterrupted (save for interference by Dark Falz every 1000 years, but that won't necessarily be mentioned in any of the flashbacks/explanations of the backstory in the films because Dark Falz doesn't necessarily play a large role in the war.)
There are a few elements that I feel should remain in order to shock and awe fans both new and old. I feel that I want to write the Alisa III into the films, as well as Dark Falz. At first, I considered the essence of Dark Falz being brought to Earth by the Alisa III, but then again, that wouldn't make sense, because he was just defeated, seeing as timeflow on the worldship would likely be unaffected after traveling through the black hole. So that explanation wouldn't make sense. The only other thing that I could think of is sticking to the plan with Rykros beginning as a rogue planet floating throughout the Milky Way Galaxy, ensnaring populations, and moving on, until it reaches Earth, where Dark Falz falls at the hands of the Earthborn heroes, and is destroyed, for at least 1000 years at least. Enraged at his first defeat by mere mortals, the consciousness of Dark Falz senses the Earthborn heroes aboard the Noah spacecraft and quickly projects where they are heading. Out of hatred for the heroes, he redirects the course of Rykros towards the Noah's destination, the Algol System, only he manages to beat them there 1000 years before.
Also, the little bit in PSII where they released Dark Falz and a voice mentioned that it was a gift from "our world to yours," I have a very interesting way of utilizing that line for the plot. ;)
Does that seem to fit any better, or do I need to do more research into the business of Dark Falz being sealed away with the planets being used as nodes and rethink this? I'm willing to take as many attempts as possible with this until I get it 100% right. The mission of my group of filmmakers is to break the paradigm of bad video game movies and do one right to-the-letter for once. Your continued help is VERY appreciated!
Who knows, maybe when we can get this story right and we finally get the 4-part saga out on DVD's, you may want to add them to your classic collection. Maybe my group and I could even get a picture with you and your collection after this is all said and done someday. :)
11-09-2010, 02:53 AM
After a little more research, I feel kind of dumb for not exploring a few obvious questions for the films.
1) Approximately when did the seal take place? What's the story behind it?
2) Who is Alis' father? Azeur or (dare I say it) Lashiec?
I want to get this right, but it seems like for every answer I find, three more questions are raised as a result. If this keeps up, I fear it may result in one of two things. Either I wipe away the alternate timeline completely, thus eliminating the rich motivation I set forth for the old man, also warranting some rewrites (which I'm willing to do for the sake of doing the franchise justice) or... I just abandon the classic continuity altogether and start a new universe, which would sadden me greatly, because I had such epic ideas to add to the classic continuity. :(
11-09-2010, 08:05 AM
Like I said, if you put an alternate timeline, then everything become possible. I just wanted to bring some point "just in case" the same timeline as the classic saga is brought up.
As for Dark Force, here's something interresting. Let's just take the JAPANESE timeline. In this timeline, Phantasy Star III happens 2000 years after the ship escaped from Parma, and not a mere 1000 Years like it was badly translated in our version. Why does it affect anything. Well Let's see.
1)Phantasy Star and the defeat of Dark Force controlling Lashiec
2)1000 Years passed
3)Phantasy Star II and the defeat of the Dark Force inside Earthmen Pandora Box
4)1000 Years passed
5)Phantasy Star IV, and the defeat of the last 3 Dark Force, and the source of all Dark Force: Profound Darkness
6)1000 Years passed
7)Phantasy Star III, outside the Algol Star System, and a Dark Force still living after the defeat of the Profound Darkness, inside another Pandora Box.
Now, this is once again another pure total speculation. But since the Profound Darkness is dead, why is Dark Force promise he will come back in 1000 years to haunt the descendant of the heroes??? Either he doesnt know that Profound Darkness is defeated, and thus he can't come back....or, he has evolved. Evolved to a point where he goes beyond other Dark Force, maybe becoming a Profound Darkness in itself. You know, for a long time, before Sega rejected all our theory, people were trying to link PSO to the classic Saga, and of course, the most possible theory was that the Spaceship ruins on Ragol might have been Alisa III in itself, which is why we still see the Pandora Box before Dark Falz (Dark Force) in PSO...he the fact that we could see through side-quest that Dark Falz wanted to break free and evolved.
What does this mean. Well, forget the link about PSO, but believe in the fact that the Dark Force of PSIII has really break free of Profound Darkness. Since there's no seal protecting it, nothing could prevent him for trying to control the earthmen (in secrecy) as soon as he gets on Earth through the Dark Hole. Maybe not at full power, but by infiltrating governemental power little by little over the years...Anyway, forget once again what I'm saying...I'm just using my imagination to create crazy scenario.
Anyway, about your question
1)You mean the initial Seal by the Great Light on the Profound Darkness? According to the official Timeline, it happens 2 millions years ago.
2)Once again, according to the official timeline, his father, the king was called Aures Landeel. Lashiec was just a prime minister who took power after the king's death because Alis was way too young to govern (less than 1 year old according to the timeline).
Anyway, your passion seems real. We'll see if you go through the entire project, which seem kinda big. Most people put aside smaller project (like fan game for exemple) because of the sheer amount of works it takes...and you say your team want to do 4 MOVIES??? That's quite the contract...No matter if you suceed or not, it was still a good chance for me to talk a lot about the classic saga on PSO-World, and for that alone, it was worth it.
11-09-2010, 10:48 AM
I want to join in this conversation, but I'd have to re-read everything to make my points. For now though, I did want to ask this. Why are you making Rykros a dark planet? Are you referencing the PSU Rykros, or the original? If you're talking about the original Rykros, which I think was first and last referenced in the fourth game, that was a planet made from either the Great Light, or by the civilization that it created, in order to warn Algol of the coming of Dark Force. In other words, it's the light's tool, not the darkness'. Are you aware of this and just taking artistic liberties?
11-09-2010, 12:21 PM
I will quote what he wrote in his first post
As far as Rykros being a native of the Andromeda galaxy, that too will be clarified within the films. It is yet another detail I want to keep a mystery until the films are released.
Being an alternate timeline, I'm guessing Rykros have a different goal than in the Classic Saga. I'm sure he must know what he's doing. But since the question was raised, I will indeed confirm that the Rykros of Algol is aligned with the Great Light
Classic Saga Rykros: The fourth planet of Algol, only visible with the Aeroprism. Normally outside the system because of its weird rotation around the star, but every 1000 years, it come back as a sign that the seal is weakening, and that the Profound Darkness will try to let part of itself go free in the form of Dark Force. Rykros Gods will then select a group of Protector to defeat Dark Force and protect the Seal for another 1000 Years. Because of the lost of Parma in PSII, the Seal have weakened to a point that 1000 Years later, the Profound Darkness is about to go free. Chaz/Rudy and the rest of the gang are therefor the last groups of Protector ever chosen by Rykros' Gods (I call them Gods, but they might just be Rykros resident).
Universe Saga Rykros: A Dark Artificial planet. Back then it was build by the Ancients in their battle against Dark Falz. Ultimately, it was to be Dark Falz sealing point, but unknown to the Ancient, Dark Falz managed to survive by feeding on the A-Photon reactor inside Rykros. It will then become the main HIVE, that will only appear during Episode 3. He was re-discovered by an Illuminus group lead by Howzer if my memory serve me right (I don't care as much for others Saga, remember) before they were taken over by the SEED and start finding a way to find a suitable body for Dark Falz
So yes, the 2 Rykros are totally opposite to each others. But I'm sure CaptainPlanet knows about it And maybe created a third Rykros...or maybe it's something else
11-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I appreciate the vote of confidence, but as it turns out, I was wrong in assuming the nature of Rykros during the pre PSI era. When I first came up with the idea for the films, I began writing it under the pretense that all the games in the franchise were somehow connected in a chronological fashion *shot*. I was of the belief that the civilization migrated from Algol, to Coral, to Ragol, to Gurhal. I'm glad I started this thread, otherwise, I would have never learned otherwise. While it's true that my first foray into Phantasy Star was through Phantasy Star III, and then PSO, the first time I ever heard the name, 'Rykros' was at the end of Phantasy Star: Portable. That bit of information intrigued me, so I began doing research into Rykros. Later, while being out of the loop of the online game for some two years or so, I learned that Rykros played a major role in the Episode 3 story as the home of the essence of Dark Falz. Not long after, I stumbled upon evidence that Rykros was also featured in PSIV. As a knee-jerk reaction, my response was, 'Oh, hey! It's Rykros! It must be the same planet from PSU!' So naturally, I assumed that it was a dark planet. At this point in time, I had heard snippets of the Great Light and the Seal that held the Profound Darkness at bay, though I wasn't aware that Dark Force was merely a 'tool' per-say of the Profound Darkness, continuously trying to inch its way further out of its purgatory every 1000 years. I was under the belief that Dark Force became a threat to Algol every 1000 years because it was a dark planet, and that every time he was defeated, the core essence of his being that was tied to the planet was carried away upon the passing of Rykros' orbit.
Wow, was I wrong!
But no, when we are as serious as this about getting the lore 100% correct for the films, I would never take artistic liberties with such a core entity of the lore. I wouldn't want to create two Rykros' because then it would feel too forced, unless I were to try to instill the belief that there were a Great Light and a Profound Darkness within EVERY galaxy, but then again, that would be taking artistic liberties, and as a writer aiming for accuracy, I feel it's not my place to do that.
I know you are a hardcore fan of the classics, and your support of the idea that an alternate timeline makes anything possible really does bring hope for this project, and I thank you for the support. However, since the Seal takes place so long before PSI (and Phantasy Star Prime, for sure), then I may change the script to not have any affiliation with Rykros and have the essence of Dark Falz be brought to Earth via the Alisa III, approximately 50-100 years from now, this continuing the support of the classic theory that the Earthmen got the coordinates of Algol from the Alisa III. Also, the reason that Dark Falz is resurrected so quickly would be due to genetic engineering (though I'm not quite sure how to work out exactly how they obtain the physical traces of Dark Falz yet since I have to rethink quite a few aspects of the script from the first film now, which I don't mind).
The way I see it, rather than having Rykros heading for the Earth, the Alisa III could arrive near the beginning of the film, and Dark Falz would become manifested toward the end.
Also, is there a taboo in referencing the physical traces of Dark Falz as 'D-Cells' (like they did in PSO)? In the second film, the rival company run by Klaudya was going to obtain leftover traces of these D-Cells and synthesize them/'perfect' them, and inject them into a host, thus creating a "Dark Falz 2.0" if you will. It was my original plan that he be sealed away into Pandora's Box and stashed aboard the starship Noah en route to the Algol System, thus explaining the appearance in PSII (this whole name thing between Dark Force and Dark Falz is really becoming a headache. I guess maybe I should just stick with Dark Force, or the purists, even though the entity aboard the Alisa III is named Dark Falz? Is there really a difference?)
11-09-2010, 05:34 PM
Sorry then, I guess I made false assumption about your knowledge of Rykros. Yes, if you want to play with core material, you're walking on a thin line if you don't know the basic. As much, I would suggest to at least play Phantasy Star IV once. It's a quick RPG, easy enough, that involve no grinding and that summarize everything you need to know about Algol in one game.
As for the others game, key element to know
Phantasy Star: Lashiec is evil, Alis kill him, he was controlled by Dark Falz (yes he was called that in the original game translation...if you want to know, Dark Force and Dark Falz are just litteral translation maybe of what the Japanese say for him...heck, in one of my book, the Japanese are spelling it "Darth Phallus"), Dark Falz is defeated, Alis is in fact the daughter of the now dead King of Algol, and become (depending on your final choice) the Queen of Algol.
Phantasy Star II: Rolf is on a governement mission to discover the cause of the malfunction of Mother-Brain. Key scene will involve death of her companion Nei (one of the most tragic scene ever created back then, in 1989), destruction of the planet Parma by the satellite Gaila, our group accused of all that, discover that Lutz/Noah of PSI is still alive, and finally that Mother Brain was inside a giant space ship called Noah controlled by the Earthmen. No one know if our group survived after the final battle against the earthmen
Phantasy Star III: Our world is a giant spaceship that fled Parma destruction...that's pretty much it.
As for the D-Cell...well its your call. Sure enough, there was never any kind of genetic experiment using Dark Force in the classic saga. Only the Online Saga did that. Universe, it was all about the SEED and infusing Dark Falz into a new body, and Zero, well it was once again an entity possessing other things/persons (in this case, Mother Trinity).
11-09-2010, 06:39 PM
Oh, no, don't worry, I didn't plan on ruining any element to the classic continuity by the Palman's tampering with the physical remnants of Dark Falz. (I suppose I'll just stick with that name since it would probably be best just to pick one, and "Falz seems like more of a name than "Force" which seems more like an idea. As long as they're the same thing, then I suppose it would be fine to pick Falz over Force.) After Alisa III arrives toward the beginning of the first film (or so it will be changed to) Earth forces don't waste much time in attempting to board the worldship (in a non-hostile sense at first). They somehow discover physical traces of something new to them (Dark Falz) and take it back down to the surface with them and begin tampering with the 'D-Cells'. This is ordered by the leader of the Earthmen (the one I've been referring to as the 'Old Man' all this time). He leaves FiestCorp in charge of this project while the other company run by Klaudya is left in charge of project Mother Brain and constructing a new breed of soldiers to enforce the new order he has on the horizon (an army of CASTs. If I decide to go with the alternate timeline, then that technology will come from the Algolians in the far distant future. If not, then the CASTs and photon weapons will merely be a byproduct of human evolution on Earth, which is starting to seem much simpler the more I think about it, and not originating from the inhabitants of Algol in any way).
By the way, I'm still unclear on one thing. Is Alis' father's identity ever truly revealed? I know he was a king, but is it ever specific as to which one? If her father's identity was never revealed, I had plans to explore that element in the films as well.
11-09-2010, 07:28 PM
Uh, well he was...the last king? What do you mean which one exactly :) ? What point of his identity do you want to explore?
11-09-2010, 08:01 PM
According to Fringes of Algo, Lashiec was the last king until he turned toward warshipping the Dark Force. Or is that incorrect? If Alis' father's exact identity is not established, I was going to establish it in the last film. While it's true that these films are told from the perspective of Earthborn heroes, I had also planned on giving a face and a name to Alis' father. So I'm guessing her father was... Aurel Landeel (Landale)? I think that's accurate, right?
Also, it says that whenever Lashiec became king, Alis was taken into hiding, handed off to Nero and his family in Camineet, but why? According to the same site, Lashiec was a good king for a time, or so it is assumed. What would be their motive for hiding her if Lashiec was not a threat? At the end of the final movie, I thought it would be cool for Lashiec to come storming through the king's court, taking out castle guards with little to no effort making his way toward the king using his powerful magic, usurping Alis' father for the throne, but now that seems inaccurate, so that idea is out.
On a side note, I found a very informative PSIV game walkthrough with constant narrative. I am now at the part where they are trying to rescue Demi from Zio's fort. Quite informative thusfar. I will continue watching throughout the night and possibly finish up tomorrow if I get the chance. If you are at all interested, the channel I'm watching it on is here:
Also, was the castle in the sky the home of King Landeel (Landale) as well? Also, is there ever any mention of Aurel's ancestors or any royalty previous to him by blood? Before I go sticking my finger into the Classic PS pie, I want to make sure I don't thrust anything too alien into the lore. Also, are there any prophecies surrounding royalty in the original PS lore? If not, then my plans for that will work well.
Also, the quote from the beginning of PSIV:
"The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens. Four bells tolled. Four torches were lit. And the world continued for thousands of years..."
What is it referring to exactly?
Also, one more question, if I may. Is there ever any mention of the Newmans (Numans) having an uncertain lifespan, or is that purely an element from PSO?
11-10-2010, 07:15 AM
About the whole "king" thing, I will juste quote you the entire section from the official Phantasy Star Compendium translation
AW 327 - The current king, Aures Landeel, suddenly dies. In place of the less-than-one-year-old successor, Princess Alisa, the next-in-line head priest and prime minister Reipard La Shiec is entrusted with political power. However, a lady of the court, with the misconception that King Aures's death was the result of a plot by La Shiec [doesn't sound like a misconception to me], hides Alisa with a friend.
AW 328 - La Shiec is installed as the provisional king. Alisa lives with Motabia's governor.
AW 329 - Motabia's governor sends Princess Alisa to the home of the subordinate of a trusted retainer, where she will be raised as a common citizen. In this house, there is a boy called Nero. Alisa takes to him, and they are raised as brother and sister.
AW 338 - Princess Alisa's foster parents die in an accident.
AW 341 - La Shiec learns the secret of the Algol Solar System's genesis. Forming a space-time gate, he comes into contact with the sealed-away spirit-life form. As a result, he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. That same year, a reign of terror begins.
AW 342 - Nero, investigating the reason behind La Shiec's transformation, is caught and killed at and by the hands of the special police. Alisa carries out his final wishes; she gains the help of Myau, Tyrone, and Lutz, and overthrows La Shiec and Dark Force. That year, when the governor of Motabia is told the news, Queen Alisa Landeel I is placed on the throne.
Lashiec is thus just a provisional king, and was surely not evil then. It was because of a misconception it seems that Alis was hidden away. But if you want to know what Alis real father did during his life, then no, there's no specific info on the matter. Just that he was the last real king, and that he died. That's it. Lashiec surely didnt kill him back then.
Anyway, as for the Air Castle, all we know is that it was Lashiec stronghold...no one know if it was used by previous royalty before. Maybe so. Because here's another quote from the official timeline
BW 13 - The supreme ruler of Parma's Baya Malay region, Waizz Landeel [first name spelled out in roman letters], raises an army with the goal of uniting all lands under one ruler.
AW 1 - Waizz unites Parma. The first line of Parman kings ascends to the throne. The development of Parma continues.
You can see the only other mention of a previous Royal lineage. Waizz Landeel. He was ruler of the Baya Malay region, which is where the Air Castle was located. So one can assume that the castle may have been there before...but maybe he was not floating originally. Anyway, you also learn why Algol calendar works with BW and AW date. It means "Before Waizz" and "After Waizz"
As for Phantasy Star IV opening poem...I admit I never had any idea what it was referring to. Maybe something related to PSII or maybe not. I mean, in PSI we had 4 party members. In PSII we could fight mother brain and dark force with up to 4 party members, and finally in PSIV, when we learn the truth about Algol, we are just 4 persons in our group. Surely the number 4 must mean something about it. There's also 4 planets forming the seal on the Profound Darkness, and each of the planet have one main native race on it, meaning 4 mains race. Maybe it's just because it's the 4th game. Another good theory would be that it's about Algol Genesis. The defeat of the Profound Darkness by the Great Light, and is sealing by the Creation of 4 planets...in fact the more I try to search in my memory, the more I think I remember having heard once that it was indeed about Algol Genesis, so scratch my previous random theory (below poster seems to have the same memory as mine to prove it). In any case, I'm pretty bad at analyzing poem meaning, I'm better with hard cold fact.
The below text will contain some spoilers for PSIV
And finally, about Numan lifespan it's ok. Numan indeed had really short lifespan at first. Nei was the product of a mix with bio-monster and human cells (some say she had musk cat cells in her, thus the ear. Musk Cat is the name of the race of Myau from Phantasy Star. We also see them in PSII on deszolis, and on PSIV, again on Dezolis with what may or may not be a grown-up Myau or one of his direct descendant). In Phantasy Star II, Nei was growing up really fast. When Rolf/Eusis saved her, she was still just a child, but only a few month later, she was almost an adult. That explains also her leveling rate (she level up twice as fast as any other party member). Because of that, she's doomed to die young (even though she died way before that when Neifirst died), since the cells were instable inside her. After the death of NeiFirst and NeiSecond (our Nei), we thought that the experiement was over. BUT in the radio drama of Phantasy Star IV, we learn that the Nei experiment was still taking place on Motavia, hidden to the eyes of everyone. Another Nei had an adventure with a young Rudy/Chaz (before he got his memory of it erased). The last thing we know about this Nei is that she was going to the computer SEED to find a way to stop the fact that Numan lifespan was really short. The result of this Nei and SEED effort to find a cure to this genetic problem created Rika/Fal. Rika is the first Numan who will really have a long lifespan. In fact, in the compendium, we see a rough sketch of what the child of Chaz/Rudy and Rika/Fal would look like (an hybrid between Human and Numan), which mean that Rika will indeed live long enough to become a mother...too bad we will never see a game starring this hybrid child :( it would have been so cool
11-10-2010, 10:36 AM
Well, I started posting a reply, but it seems that PSOW doesn't seem to like me much and logged me off. Let me try this again.
As far as the poem goes, I remember hearing it was supposed to be the tale of the Great Light vs the Profound Darkness. The light sealed the darkness in the heavens through the galactic seal. The light celebrated with bells and torches (maybe related to the holy torch kept in the cathedral in Dezolis?), and the darkness couldn't find a way out for thousands of years.
I think it might be important to note that the Great Light and Profound Darkness, in the japanese translation, were an ancient race having a civil war. When the light won the war, it banished the losing side into the dimensional seal, where their anger fused them into one dark being. In the english version, it was the simple tale of god vs devil. Take from that what you will.
As far as Dark Falz vs Dark Force, it's basically a translation issue. If I'm understanding correctly, the japanese name was them spelling Dark Force in their words. The issue we're having is just the issue you get with translating a phrase from english to japanese back to english without prior knowledge of the last step. Not to mention, I believe the english version of PSI didn't have enough space in the name to type out a full Dark Force, which I'm sure also contributed to the trouble. I think in all american releases of the next games, the translation stuck as Dark Force until PSO, where it's purposefully mistranslated.
As for which one you go with, I say it's up to you. I prefer Dark Force, since it refers to a nameless evil, and because I'm a stickler for original meanings. Dark Falz has become a prominent pet name though, and you're right that it better humanitises it.
If you're going in to D-cells, I suppose that will be fair game. The concept of the series in general is a simple "fantasy meets scifi". Doing science to pure darkness is an interesting concept. It is true that there's no mention of it in the genesis series though, or that the darkness that makes the demons of the game is even anything physical.
Now, it sounds like you're going to add newmans in? If so, I just want to explain a little peeve of mine. Newmans were originally conceived to be part of the genetic experiment scifi archetype, not the elf fantasy archetype. In other words, to quote PS2, a "human who is not human". It just pains me to see that they've become nothing more than space elves after PSO. If you're going to write them in, make sure to align them more with science, and less with magic.
11-10-2010, 10:51 AM
Above poster is right about the Great Light VS Profound Darkness war. Due to mistranlation, what was supposed to be an entire race fighting another race become two supernatural entity in our translated version. Once again, I'll quote the translated timeline:
Several Hundred Million Years Ago - In an unspecified solar system, a civilization of spirit-life forms divides, and an interplanetary war breaks out.
2,000,000 Years Ago - The war is settled. As a result of the victorious side sealing the defeated side away, one fixed star and four planets are created, "Protectors of the Seal" are made on the four planets, and one kind of sentient life form is allocated to each.
300,000 Years Ago - The entire race of victors is wiped out. Except on the fourth planet, Ryucross, the beings of the other three planets, with the passing of each successive generation, begin to forget the mission of those made Protectors. Meanwhile, in their inter-dimensional prison, the sealed-away spirit-life forms transform into a wicked being, the accumulation of spirits of hatred and vengeance, and, at its core, a profound darkness is formed.
This is a point where I prefer the Great Light VS Profound Darkness of our version. Mostly because I like to believe that the Great Light indeed just left our system, without being "wiped out". Even Rieko Kodama like I said previously hinted the Great Light race as a possible source for a sequel, if it would have been made. Plus if the race of the losing side formed the Profound Darkness, the same thing could have happened to the winning side, forming the Great Light. So overall, we can come back to the same thing as in our translated version.
I think that you'll have a real headache if you try to go and and every mistranslation made through the course of the 4 games.
11-10-2010, 02:48 PM
The more this discussion continues, the more oriented I feel with the classic lore. Also, I have been doing nothing but research into the lore, as well as continuing my endeavor to watch the elaborate PSIV playthrough I started watching on YouTube last night. I am up to the part where the player reached the top of Garuberk tower, preparing to fight Dark Force again. Again, this whole venture has been very informative.
And I am in agreement that the rich backstory behind the Newmans has been sadly downplayed over the years, and that does disappoint me. However, rest assured, that I held true to their sci-fi roots and that there is nothing 'magical' about them, even in the first draft of the script for Phantasy Star Prime 1. In the new script I will be writing however, it's beginning to shape up to look something like this:
The Earth government has been continuously trying to hail the Alisa III in orbit, though little to no response has been established (probably due to the Algolians' own safety concerns). Eventually, the Earth government begins to forcibly establish physical contact with the Alisa III by taking shuttles to the worldship above and infiltrating it (kind of like in the movie District 9). Through these means, though not necessarily in the same trip, three things are procured. A Newman female, a Musk Cat (if it is even possible for them to exist aboard the Alisa III... Is it?), and a small sample of D-Cells. Naturally, the Earthmen acquire these things out of their classic thirst for knowledge and power. After learning all they can from the Newman female and the Musk Cat (and the genetic link between the two), the Earthmen eventually manage to crack the security matrix that harbors all the Alisa III's vital information (such as the coordinates to the Algol System!). After the events of Phantasy Star Prime 1, where Dark Falz is scientifically engineered to his full power and begins to wreak havoc upon the masses (and is stopped by three Earthborn heroes, Neon (nickname), Michael, and Epsilon), This man (referenced yet again):
In all his corporate influence, manages to convince the Earth government that the continued existence of the Alisa III would be a threat to Earth security and convinces them to blow the Alisa III out of orbit (I know, it's a very morbid end for the poor refugee ship, but then again, would you really expect anything different from human nature?)
Anyway, I feel as if I've been getting off track with my main point, which was originally the Newmans. In the new script, the likely course for the Newman background would be that they took the research they were conducting with the Newman female and the Musk Cat and began experimenting with ways to create an artificial breed of human that could live for hundreds, or even a thousand years. However, they run into the same problem that most other Newmans run into, the uncertain lifespan factor. Naturally, this isn't good enough for the Earthlings, so they begin researching ways to overcome this obstacle. In the original script, they developed a 'Newman (a contraction of "New Human" in the script, a contorted name given strictly by the Earthlings) Serum' that, when synthesized with raw genetic material that perfectly complimented the serum in every way (a rare find indeed), would create the prime Newman specimen, capable of living for hundreds, maybe even a thousand years. The only remotely 'magical' property of the Newmans in the films is their natural genetic fortitude for using Techniques, though that doesn't mean that everyone who is a Newman in the movies will use Techniques.
There was, however, going to be a second serum created by FiestCorp utilizing their new research into Techniques (again, thanks to the arrival of the Alisa III and its inhabitants). If injected into a human host, it would enable them to have the mental capacity to use Techniques. Now, in order to appease the Phantasy Star demographic as a whole, both old and new, the only artistic liberty I had planned on taking (because it was empty canvas space) was taking heavy influences of technology from PSO and PSU and reiterating them as hardware created strictly by Earthlings' technological evolution and nothing more (no direct tie-ins with PSO or PSU since they are different universes). NanoTransformers, photon weapons, Technique Discs (which are only compatible with a human/Newman who has been injected with the Technique serum, in which case, upon touching the disk, it would sort of evaporate into a bright green ether, which is then absorbed into the user), CASTs, and even Photon Arts (though rare in this world), all concoctions of the Earthlings. Would that step on any toes of classic or new fans do you think? It seems like a safe route, but I just want to be sure.
Also, not to give away too much, but for the second film, we had a grand plan for a villain that was human science gone too far. A Human/Newman/CAST tribrid!
Also, another thing I had implemented since the first draft of the script for Phantasy Star Prime 1 was the concept of the 'Ultimate Photon Art,' like the Phantasy Star equivalent of the combo attacks from Chrono Trigger, though upon watching the walkthrough of PSIV, I see it's already been done. No matter though, that just means more consistency! :)
Also, with this new story format revolving around the Alisa III, I will most likely be discarding the alternate timeline scenario and keeping it to this simple structure. :)
11-10-2010, 03:15 PM
I will tell a few things right away. Newman and Musk Cat does not exist inside the Alisa III. The people inside are 100% Palman (wheter they are Orakio or Laya descendant, it just means part of them had esper power I guess). Orakian control cyborg, and Layan controls monsters (though in Phantasy Star world, monsters may actually be old bio-creation, who knows...). Though we can argue that the Nei name appear in Phantasy Star III, as a word of power now, when the Alisa III left Parma, Neifirst and Neisecond just died few days ago, so I don't think they have any meaning about Numan inside the Alisa III. And well, I still need to see any Musk Cat inside the Alisa III too. Anyway, the point is, we can live with the "D-Cells" but bringing Musk Cat and Numan discovery inside Alisa III is a little bit far fetched. Though it's your script, if you find a good way to explain why, it might pass, I guess...but really, the importance of Numan is really inside the Algol Star System. Phantasy Star III cut any link it may have with Numan research. It's a tale about Parman trying to survive inside a spaceship. I don't see how you could bring them in your story, you may have to take some liberties to achieve your goal there if you want to recreate the Newman research on earth through Alisa III (like, I don't know, hidden laboratory inside the Alisa III with many pods containing Nei test subject, for safe keeping...though even then, it would not make sense because everything was created on Motavia, not Parma)..
Anyway, as for the ultimate technique, well, you'll learn that it's always Megid (except for the first Phantasy Star). Granted PSO and PSU brought down the importance of Megid in their series, in the classic Saga, it has more meaning. In PSII, it the last technic learned by Rolf of ultimate destruction (kill everything on screen, and cut your own party member HP in half), in PSIII it's the technic the hero of the 3rd generation will learn that will cause the destruction of the evil city of Lashute. And in PSIV, it's once again the ultimate technic of destruction, having an entire side dungeon and little side story dedicated to its learning (I hope the guy on youtube that you're watching his video will put it in there too, it's worth watching).
Yeah I know, everything become really confusing...even me never went so deep down in the analysis of the classic saga, I need to bring back all my past memories and sources on the subject at every posts, some being buried really deep
11-10-2010, 08:46 PM
I just finished watching the entire playthrough for PSIV (and yes, he did obtain Megid, though it kind of seems required for the story's progression. He never showed Megid alone though, just the combo macro, Destruct). I feel I learned a lot. One of the parts of the lore that really caught my attention, and I know you mentioned it before, was the Great Light having left the galaxy long ago and nobody knows where it went or why.
That may be an interesting thing to explore in the films. But which concept rubs you the right way? Let's say the Great Light traveled to the Milky Way long ago, after it sealed away the Profound Darkness. Do you think it could have possibly began another inner struggle, beginning the cycle of good vs evil all over again, and thus creating another seal within the Milky Way, or even *gasp* using the Sol System itself as a new seal, created eons ago?? :o Seems very interesting! This would obviously give birth to another Profound Darkness and Dark Force. After all, how can light exist purely without darkness?
Or maybe, in an entirely different scenario, it would make sense if the Great Light came to this galaxy in an attempt to purify the cosmos. Perhapse, while treking the Milky Way, it discovered the corruption of the human race and made it a point to wipe it from existence, thus satisfying its own desire for 'purity?' Maybe from this perspective, a story could be told similar to the classics, but rather than fighting the Profound Darkness and Dark Force, fighting the polar opposites (aka the Great Light and ????). This all seems like it would be interesting to explore. What do you think?
11-11-2010, 07:37 AM
No, Megid is not mandatory to finish the game. Though it's not really hard to find, so there's no reason to skip it. It's just that after the Profound Darkness appear on Motavia, well some people may go straight there, forgetting to go back to Rykros, and thus could miss it for the final battle.
And yes, the "Great Light" location after Algol genesis was always the part I would have liked to explore the most in a fan-fiction, as also stated previously. From there, everything is mystery, so I don't think you can contradict the cannon. Just be sure to build it well enough that it does not feel forced.
But I wonder, what will you do about the "numan" presence I talked about in my previous topic. Really, the more I read myself, the more I realize you'll have real difficulty not using some artistic liberties to go through this project. I hope you don't take all my post way too hard. I'm just really happy to be able to talk that much about the classic saga.
11-11-2010, 08:55 PM
Truthfully, and I think you're feeling too, I find it hard replying to this thread without unleashing the little fanboy inside me. On one hand, you want contribute to the project at hand and help it be as successful as possible. On the other hand, you want to nerd out about one of your favorite games and how much it rocks. I don't know about you, but I'm having trouble keeping the two separate.
About the Great Light though, I don't know how I feel about it. It's not a strong focal point in the series, and in fact, it's pretty much just dumped on the player at the end of the last game (Does make for a pretty awesome set of equipment though). So, I guess I don't have any strong feelings about using it one way or the other. I guess you can take that as, fans might not care?
Going back to the newmen and musk cats... If you really wanted a musk cat, there's nothing saying there weren't a few stowaways or pets in the Alisa. I think they were native to Parma, and if not, I'd think enough nobles would have them as pets to have a few on board to infect the wildlife population of the ship.
I doubt you would find any trace of the newmen on the ship though. I think the project was limited to Motavia's labs. If you wanted to write one in, there are a few loop holes I can see happening. It wouldn't be too far fetched, for instance, that some Parmian scientist saved some data on the project in some databank on the Alisa for some reason. Though, this data would be forgotten as the Parmian tribes become more primal, so it would probably be dug up by the Earthian scientists.
Or you could just make an Earthian newman. It's a pretty vague concept, so you have some room for maneuverability.
I think Megid is very missable in the last game, by the way. I wouldn't think about going back to a planet I've already fully explored without any coaxing just to make sure a dungeon I haven't noticed hasn't opened suddenly. And on the subject, I say Megid deserves some mentioning in the series. A destructive power controlled completely by the hatred of the user? Sounds like B rate movie material to me! I wouldn't try to explain it much if you used it, I don't see that ending up well. But it'd make a really nice mention.
Since you said you didn't see it used, I figure it's worth at least seeing. It's (finally) used at 9:15, though you see PD use it sparatically. YouTube - Phantasy Star IV - Profound Darkness - low level clear pt. 1
12-03-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm back. In my rethinking of the movie backstory, and figuring out how to incorporate the Great Light into it, I just have to ask one question. What exactly am I looking at here?
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2488/greatlightconflict1.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/i/greatlightconflict1.jpg/) http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5065/greatlightconflict2.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/i/greatlightconflict2.jpg/)
Are these the spiritual manifestations of the Great Light and the Profound Darkness or is it the Profound Darkness being banished into a portal that just so happens to look like a galactic disc? My first impression when I saw these images was that it looked like a quasar spewing out darkness.
Basically what I'm asking is:
Great Light = white disc
Profound Darkness = dark stuff?
seal = white disc
Profound Darkness = dark stuff?
seal = dark ring
Andromeda Galaxy = white disc?
12-06-2010, 07:30 AM
I always thought indeed it was Great Light VS Profound Darkness, because the pictures appear when Le Roof start naming them in particular. Though this is one thing I can't tell at 100% since never in the pictures is there an arrow with a label saying: "This is the Great Light and this is the Profound Darkness". When Le Roof talk about the seal, they show a picture of the Algol Star System if my memory is right.
But anyway, no matter what those pictures really are, does it really affect your idea?
12-06-2010, 02:48 PM
Actually, it does. If I am going to get the visuals right in the event of a prologue telling this story, it would make a big difference whether the white disc is spewing out the darkness or absorbing the darkness.
12-06-2010, 08:56 PM
I don't think you'll ever find an actual reference telling this picture actually show the Great Light VS the Profound Darkness. We all assume it is, like I said, the text seems to point to it...BUT there's no indication that this is 100% true. I even went back and check every picture in my Phantasy Star Compendium, to see if there was a caption that I could then read using the un-official translation, to no avail. So, yes you can assume it's the warring party there, no one could ever prove you wrong and tell you it's actually the Seal or the Andromeda Galaxy
12-06-2010, 09:53 PM
It's good that I actually have elbow room with this one. It means I actually have options. Judging by these pictures, to you think a good assumption would be that it shows the Great Light ridding itself of darkness and corruption, thus splitting into two beings, like the legend states? The story for Prime was going to be something along the lines of:
After the Great Light sealed away the Profound Darkness, it left the Galaxy and went far away. In Prime, the Great Light went to the Milky Way Galaxy, but unknowingly began to pick up negative energy within the galaxy from the darkness that resided within the hearts of the Milky Way's inhabitants (Mankind is still in its early stages of evolution at this point). Eventually, the Great Light could take no more and the cycle began again. It proceeded to expel the darkness it had assimilated with, thus giving birth to a new Profound Darkness. Again history repeats itself and the Great Light once again seals its dark side away in an alternate dimension. Being one with the universe, it was able to sense that the Algol seal had a period of weakness, allowing the most potent hatred of the Profound Darkness to take the form of Dark Force once every thousand years. In response, the Great Light decided to create a more powerful seal. One that spanned more than a single solar system (thus allowing the introduction of at least one new race, which we are currently working on concept art for. We may create a second new race to even it out. Rather than having 3 planets within a single solar system act as a seal, have three solar systems act as a stronger seal. or at least have one planet from each solar system act as a node for the seal.) Cut to the near future. Astronomers identify light from an event that happened long ago in space, something that appears to resemble a quasar, but the kicker is, it's not a galaxy at all, it happened within the galaxy! It turns out that what they saw was the Great Light ridding itself of the Profound Darkness. The seal could be weakened, allowing the introduction of Dark Force one of two ways.
Method 1: One of the new alien races (which humankind has not yet encountered) went to war with the other new race, and eventually, obliterated their planet, which was one of the three nodes of the seal, thus weakening it. We haven't figured out how we would introduce a Rykros analogue yet.
Method 2: the Alisa III arrived in orbit around the Earth (which was going to happen at some point within the films regardless). Earthlings eventually board the worldship by force after various failed attempts at communication. They manage to find D-Cells (a term which I would probably carry over as physical residue left behind by the defeat of Dark Force) and take them back home for study. Eventually, Dark Force is resurrected by scientific means and a host. The Algolian Dark Force senses his new location and that, just on the other side of the veil, lies darkness akin to his own, so he gains the motive to weaken the seal further so that the Milky Way Profound Darkness can escape.
Such an effort caused a spiritual strain on the Great Light, so it decided to rest for eons in the Milky Way Galaxy, albeit, in a parallel dimention, in order to keep itself separate from the darkness that caused the split in the first place. This leaves many doors open, I think. I even thought about introducing a temporary human female manifestation of the Great Light to appear before the heroes for a scene (since the Profound Darkness also appeared to take the form of a female)
What do you think? I eliminated Newmans from the story like you said since they are only relevant to Algol in this universe, and instead, decided to replace them with a new, refreshing race. New content FTW?
12-07-2010, 08:11 AM
I actually begin to love and feel this could make sense. Only one point, like I said, we don't have exact representation of the meaning of those pictures. Is it a split? Is it a War? Like it was previously said, in the English translation, it was one giant spirutal entity splitting into two, and then making war, while in the Japanese version, it's an entire race with two factions. While I prefer our english version (one single supreme entity seems more likely to create an entire solar system for a seal than a race of individual)
No matter what you chose, you're sure to bother the Japanese or English purist...but at that point, you should not care, just know that this difference exists, in case it's thrown to your face. Even the old "Phantasy Star Page" build his awesome non-cannon timeline with the English translation, aknowledging that the Japanese version was different. So if one of the most well known PS website back then did it, you can do it too, and still stay cannon.
I think you understand enough of the Lore now, your premise look really good to me, and I'm satisfied
12-07-2010, 04:02 PM
Thanks. :) I've been looking really hard for as much information as I can and I think I just about have everything I need to finish the backstory for these movies. And yes, in the films, I was going to use the events in the pictures as a separation of good and evil, since it looks like the good side is excreting the evil side. It's a given that after this, they do battle.
I must ask a purist this though, which of the 2 layouts did you like better? I will keep it in mind when writing.
12-08-2010, 08:27 AM
Anyway, I'm guessing you went for the theory that Alisa III arrive in the past, so the the time loop can happen with Phantasy Star II? Anyway, if that's the case, at which times those events will take place (in Algol I mean). Because with method 2, there's a lot of chance you fall into "continuity" problem. Your best bet is method 1, and it gives you more liberty to work your own side of the story.
01-09-2011, 12:17 AM
Here is the first trailer for our project. Enjoy!
YouTube - Phantasy Star Prime Teaser Trailer #1
06-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Wow, I had almost forgotten how lost and confused we were with the story back then! It makes me proud to know that we finally did nail every little detail of classic-oriented lore to the wall to where everyone will be happy.
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