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View Full Version : Item Synthesis... really?



Temmy
Nov 11, 2010, 03:04 PM
Item synthesis was pretty much the main reason why I quit PSU after 2 months, after playing PSO since it came out. (That and PP instead of TP)

I know it's "drastically" changed but I'll only be happy if it's an alternative to finding sweet rare items from enemies. The idea of materials dropping from enemies rather than a rare gun makes me sick.

I just went from super excited to realizing Phantasy Star Zero is all I'll get that's like PSO.

Zarode
Nov 11, 2010, 03:24 PM
If they do it right, you won't be complaining. I'd rather it be something like Reforging (http://www.wowwiki.com/Reforging) from World of Warcraft.

Found a weapon but it doesn't have enough ATA to suit your needs? Take it back to your Partner Machine and have it reworked. It costs materials and meseta to do, making it rather expensive, but worth while in the end for the right weapons.

I dunno, I don't find synthesis all that bad, its when random elements come into play that it becomes a chore. Thanks PM, I totally wanted a 2% ice weapon!

Temmy
Nov 11, 2010, 03:53 PM
I agree with you, but you put a conditional... "if they do it right."

I hope they do it right, because like many people here, PSO is my favorite game and PSU was meteor smashing into my childhood memories. PSU wasn't a bad game but it's not PSO and I thought it was going to be, and thus I was seriously disappointed.

Kent
Nov 11, 2010, 07:20 PM
If they do it right, you won't be complaining. I'd rather it be something like Reforging (http://www.wowwiki.com/Reforging) from World of Warcraft.

Found a weapon but it doesn't have enough ATA to suit your needs? Take it back to your Partner Machine and have it reworked. It costs materials and meseta to do, making it rather expensive, but worth while in the end for the right weapons.
I was thinking about how some form of equipment customization might be able to work in a game like this. PSO, at its core, is a dungeon-crawling, loot-hunting game, where the core drives to go forward are the flow of EXP toward character advancement and the chances to find rare and useful items.

People like customization, but the synthesis-heavy approach taken with PSU is ham-fisted at best (and not really any customization at all, really), so I was thinking: What if equipment customization came solely in the form of adding attachments to equipment?

By that, I mean that every weapon, frame or barrier in the game would have slots for units, similar to how frames/armor already work in PSO - however, things like barriers and weapons may only have one or two, and would accept a very different type of unit into them. Weapon-based units would have things that change weapons in a more fundamental manner than simply providing stat boosts (which would be reserved for frames generally). Depending on how things like gun combat are handled, items such as scopes or stabilizers might be potential attachments uniquely for guns, which may have a secondary attachment slot to allow for such things.

Some examples, just to drive the idea home: Weapon attachments may increase damage dealt on a critical hit, extend the range of the weapon's blade(s)/bullets slightly, increase/decrease the number of projectiles fired (with things like shotguns) or number of targets hit (with things like slicers) at a penalty/benefit of attack power, or add a greater flinch to attacks dealt from behind. Barriers might give bonus resistances to status effects, give a chance to partially block technique damage, or restore HP or TP whenever an attack is successfully blocked.

Things like that - things that actually change the functionality of the item slightly, and generally give them a net benefit or circumstantial benefit over using an unmodified item. Whether or not these attachments can be separated from the item after application is a tough call, but it would make sense (as with armor units) that they be freely interchangable.

The most obvious benefits of such a system would be that people have a whole bunch more loot they can find, and they're able to use this to further customize exactly how they want to play their character. I think such a system would have a lot of potential to make for some very interesting combinations.

Mike
Nov 16, 2010, 10:12 PM
I don't think having materials is too bad of an idea as long as you don't need to wait three hours for something that turns out to be an Okiku Doll instead of that 9 star sword you were expecting. Something like White Knight Chronicles' frog forges maybe. It's way better than a little robot who will occasionally give you junk anyways.

AlexCraig
Nov 16, 2010, 10:16 PM
I wouldn't mind synthesis items. Something like in Fallout 3 or New Vegas wouldn't be bad, to me.

ThEoRy
Nov 16, 2010, 11:04 PM
People like customization, but the synthesis-heavy approach taken with PSU is ham-fisted at best (and not really any customization at all, really), so I was thinking: What if equipment customization came solely in the form of adding attachments to equipment?

By that, I mean that every weapon, frame or barrier in the game would have slots for units, similar to how frames/armor already work in PSO

Oh you mean like how Too Human is? I agree completely. Up to four slots in six pieces of armor and two weapons for a total of 32 slots. Having a full custom set in Too Human is truly awesome and gives you a great sense of accomplishment. You get a good feeling of ownership over your character, it's like you make a better connection. Not to mention it makes you a total badass!

HeartBreak301
Nov 16, 2010, 11:16 PM
If only Too Human had better gameplay, could have been great.

Anon_Fire
Nov 16, 2010, 11:42 PM
It should be something like in Star Ocean: The Last Hope

"En"
Nov 17, 2010, 01:25 AM
It should be something like in Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Agreed. I remember you and I discussed this on MSN.

Of all the videogames I've played, Star Ocean has had one of the "better" item synthesis systems that I've seen. If PSO2 were to adopt a system along those lines, I would be beyond happy. Mostly, though, I'm looking for it to be, as Temmy stated, an alternative to rare hunting, not a full replacement. Or, have it improve upon an already existant piece of equipment, as was suggested by most of the posters before me.

I'll admit, Item Synthesis was a huge turn-off for me when I played PSU. In the time I did spend in PSU, I ignored synthesis as much as humanly possible. Rather than synthesizing gear, I found myself constantly selling materials and boards and buying the equip I sought from another player. As a result, I never had spectacular weapon percents.

Mike
Nov 17, 2010, 02:00 AM
Of all the videogames I've played, Star Ocean has had one of the "better" item synthesis systems that I've seen.
Would you mind explaining how it works for those of us who haven't play Star Ocean?

"En"
Nov 17, 2010, 02:18 AM
Would you mind explaining how it works for those of us who haven't play Star Ocean?

Right, sorry. To summarize...

In Star Ocean (Going off of The Last Hope for reference, so I apologize to fans of the earlier games) there are two ways to obtain a recipe (relative to a Board) for an item. For the more powerful or unique items, you find the recipe while playing the game. For the rest of the items that exist in the game, you can set your party into a brainstorming mode, in which they come up with ideas for "inventions." Each party member has an emphasis on a certain item type, such as Edge (the main protagonist) being good at creating Weapons and Armour, but bad at writing spell scrolls. In comparison to PSO, Hunters could be good at inventing Swords, Rangers at inventing Guns, and so on.

When you begin the "invention" process, there is a timer, and every time it ticks, SP is deducted from your overall stash (SP is used to learn abilities and is used as payment for invention). This could easily be replaced by Meseta. When nothing else can be invented between your party's expertise and level, it gives you a time-out, preventing you from senselessly wasting any more SP.

Once you have a recipe, it remains in your invention database permanantly. Of all the things that were wrong with synthesis in PSU, one-time boards really got my goat. Once you know how to create an item, it shouldn't vanish in a puff of smoke. Or, that's what I believe, anyway.

Actually creating the item is pretty standard in Star Ocean. You collect the materials you need, and you tell your synthesizer to create it. The item is made instantly, and you can then choose to put it in your inventory, store it, or throw it away.

That's how synthesis works in Star Ocean: The Last Hope, but I'll also list a few differences which existed in Star Ocean 3, incase any of them sound more intriguing on PSO2's behalf:

-In The Last Hope, you didn't need to wait for a timer "tick" to invent a new recipe. In Star Ocean 3, you did. Whether or not this would be "better" is up for debate.
-In Star Ocean 3, it cost money to create an item, rather than SP. This was partly due to the fact that NPCs existed across the planet where synthesis took place on who, like your party members, also came with their own unique stats. They also came with tolls, which ultimately affected the overall price you paid per "tick."
-Though my memory is a bit fuzzy (It's been years since I played Star Ocean 3) I'm pretty sure there was no time-out on the ticks. You could potentially sit there for hours trying to invent something, to no effect. However, this was due to the fact that there were hundreds of items - good and bad - which could be invented. There was also a sense of competition in SO3, because NPCs could also invent items without you, and move themselves up the inventor ranking table.
-Also, in Star Ocean 3, I don't think you could "find" any recipes anywhere. What that would equate to in PSO2 is, you'd have to "invent" all the Boards, rather than be able to find them.


Obviously, PSO2 doesn't have to do this exactly, word for word. It can easily have its own unique perks. But, it needs to start somewhere, and picking up where PSU left off will have disastrous results.

Allison_W
Nov 17, 2010, 05:22 PM
Blizzard has already spilled the beans on what Diablo III's crafting is going to be like, and it sounds somehow adaptable to a game like the PSO series--the thing is that in both of them, you want some ability to craft, but the focus is supposed to be on finding new rares rather than resorting to crafting for everything. To elaborate, in Diablo III, your character doesn't learn crafting skills; instead, they recruit artisans into their entourage, and these artisans can be given gold and crafting materials in order to upgrade their skills and tools. Crafted items don't have perfectly preset properties or replace found items--instead, crafted items have some preset properties, and then possibly random properties as well, meaning you know what kind of item you're going to get but not all of its parameters.

If I were to adapt such a system to the old PSO, what I imagine it working like would be thus: you can't craft rares, but you can craft generics (i.e., Gladius, Calibur, etc.), and depending upon the materials you use, you can guarantee perhaps one property: for instance, you might be able to guarantee that it will have a damage bonus against a particular enemy category, or you might be able to guarantee it has a particular category of special attack or like property, or you might be able to guarantee Hit (which would probably be the most expensive option). The rest of its properties would be random. So if you want a decent staple sword, you might choose to craft a Calibur with Hit, and hope for a good quantity of Hit (while knowing you will get Hit to begin with) and good properties in addition to it, rather than having to hope that a) a Calibur drops on your next run and b) it happens to have Hit, in addition to the above.

Something like that.

Allison_W
Nov 17, 2010, 06:38 PM
Also, fuck failure chance. Seriously.

Jinketsu
Nov 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
I'm fine with failure chance so long as the base ingredient doesn't have to disappear.

The only synthesis setup I'm largely familiar with is Final Fantasy XI, but they released an addition to the system called Synergy that allows you to create items that normal crafting doesn't - in addition to the normal crafting items. All the while expending little elemental stones you buy for the synergy synth, rather than possibly expending some of the materials needed for the recipe upon failure.

Drawers
Nov 20, 2010, 03:50 PM
Wait, there's going to be synthesising? Well this was in PSO, but it was completely different from PSU, you just had to have everything, combine them together to get the weapon that requires those items. Hopefully it'll be fun and not a hopeless chore like PSU. I hope they give every item little pictures like Star Ocean, and have event-only items for synthing too (and not just for novelties either).


Also, fuck failure chance. Seriously.

No seriously, fuck failure chance that is the whackest crap ever.

I hope this game has player shops though. :D

Allison_W
Nov 20, 2010, 04:22 PM
I hope this game has player shops though. :D

Didn't you just get done saying in the other thread that everything PSU did sucked balls, or was that only for certain non-everything values of everything?