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Dragwind
Nov 17, 2010, 06:09 PM
What weapon types are you guys looking forward to being in the game?

I'm wondering if they'll just throw in everything we've had so far, and perhaps some new weapon types. I'm also wondering what kind of modifications they might make to weapon types such as photon axes and the like.

Sienna
Nov 17, 2010, 06:16 PM
Alright.

I am looking forward to the return of mechguns and swords that were quick.

Allison_W
Nov 17, 2010, 06:39 PM
Unarmed combat and fist weapons a la PSO rather than a la PSU. And yes, faster large swords would be excellent.

Seth Astra
Nov 17, 2010, 06:51 PM
Katanas as their own weapon class, rather than turned into ridiculously slow swords.

Mike
Nov 17, 2010, 07:03 PM
I'd be perfectly happy with PSO shotguns. None of that Zero-ish gunblades but regular shotguns. Gunblades aren't bad but I don't like them as a replacment for shotguns.

Kent
Nov 17, 2010, 07:27 PM
Unarmed combat and fist weapons a la PSO rather than a la PSU.
Agreed. PSU's "knuckle" weapons were large, looked really stupid and were almost nonsensical. Unarmed combat/fist weapons should be an extension of what they were like in PSO: You still used your unarmed combat attack animations (though, most of them could stand to be a little better), but the weapons themselves were more like gloves. Glove-style weapons, I think, would be the way to go - but they shouldn't be nonsensical chunks of machinery you attach to your hands that are the size of your arms.

Both PSU and World of Warcraft manage to take the idea of having knuckles or fist-mounted weapons, and turn them into the dumbest-looking things you could imagine.

I'd be perfectly happy with PSO shotguns. None of that Zero-ish gunblades but regular shotguns. Gunblades aren't bad but I don't like them as a replacment for shotguns.
Shotguns do have their own niche, but you know, the concept of gunblades could work out as a unique weapon type - it'd be a single weapon that allows both melee and ranged combat (of course), but they should probably do away with the whole "lock on for one, don't for the other" mechanic. Maybe they should just give us two separate attack buttons, where each weapon has two attacks it can do (e.g. horizontal and vertical attacks for sabers), and then just tap or hold for normal/heavy attacks.

It's the kind of thing that more hybrid-oriented characters between melee and ranged combat would find very useful, since it could play to all of their strengths... Or the Battlemage-styled Force, if they want to literally be able to do everything at once.

TheAstarion
Nov 17, 2010, 08:05 PM
Gunblades were my favourite weapon in PSZero. Perhaps a shot-on-impact could work, perhaps not.

I liked shotguns in PSO, but like them even better in PSU. I dunno, I prefer being able to concentrate all fire on a single point blank target, but auto targeting for 5 enemies was cool too; you didn't have to have everything in shotgun formation just so you didn't fire a stray bullet.

Scythes would make a good weapon class IMO, and if that's too boring, how about making them a 2-handed equivalent of a gunblade? Double-barreled shotgun in line with the blade, to detonate when the blade pierces armour.

Gunblades and Scythecannons or whatever could be the only ranged weapons available to sword & sorcery battlemages, and even then usable best up close.

AlexCraig
Nov 17, 2010, 08:06 PM
Double Swords like Sange & Yasha, Jizai, Asuka, etc.

Mike
Nov 17, 2010, 08:38 PM
Shotguns do have their own niche, but you know, the concept of gunblades could work out as a unique weapon type - it'd be a single weapon that allows both melee and ranged combat (of course), but they should probably do away with the whole "lock on for one, don't for the other" mechanic. Maybe they should just give us two separate attack buttons, where each weapon has two attacks it can do (e.g. horizontal and vertical attacks for sabers), and then just tap or hold for normal/heavy attacks.
It's not that I dislike gunblades but I just wasn't happy with the removal of shotguns and gunblades being a replacement for them in Zero.

Minidoomer
Nov 17, 2010, 09:00 PM
A REAL machine gun. You gotta hold it with two hands, not some small baby looking gun. Although it has the potential to become OP i'm sure if balanced correctly it would be a really fun gun to use!

bns1991
Nov 17, 2010, 09:35 PM
I think that pso2 will adopt a few of the weapon types that are on some of the later phantasy star games. Spears and gunblades(over shotguns) would be great additions to the upcoming game.

One thing I think they should incorporate into pso2 could be a variety of fighting styles. Some styles of fighting could deliver more hits to the enemy, and others could deliver less hits and inflict more damage and could even cause status effects. There are so many possibilities of what they could do with the combat system. I m a huge fan of the original combat style of PSO, but it would have a lot more playability with an improved combat system.

ChronoTrigga
Nov 17, 2010, 10:28 PM
Twin Slicers would be nice.

Nai_Calus
Nov 18, 2010, 12:29 AM
PARTISANS. Dear GOD I hate spears. Partisans, damn it.

Meyfei
Nov 18, 2010, 01:12 AM
whips, chains, and the like. needs a bit less photon and more physical materials(with photon streaks). and hold off on the ribbon dancing like in PSU.

:D Ball & Chain? hardcore mid-evil items brought back and upgraded into the new times.

i wonder if they'll have some kind of high quality item synth thing. I've never played this game but something like Monster Hunter's item creation where your item is made by you with w/e mats.

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Nov 18, 2010, 01:19 AM
Scythes would make a good weapon class IMO, and if that's too boring, how about making them a 2-handed equivalent of a gunblade? Double-barreled shotgun in line with the blade, to detonate when the blade pierces armour.


PARTISANS. Dear GOD I hate spears. Partisans, damn it.
Yes yes. /M.Bison

That was my response to that part, as I go further down in topic, it was already said. GG

Never a real replacement to using an entire pole for range and having multiple hits in front of you, horizontal space covering. Requiring PAs for no reason, to do simply that.


whips, chains, and the like. needs a bit less photon and more physical materials(with photon streaks). and hold off on the ribbon dancing like in PSU.

:D Ball & Chain? hardcore mid-evil items brought back and upgraded into the new times.

I erased that synth part, as should you so Sega ST never sees it/tries it/abuses it again.

MAXrobo
Nov 18, 2010, 01:26 PM
I would love to see axes come back, they where my favorite in PSU.

Also i thing they should have a heavy PSO style shotgun, and have gunswords as a light shotgun that can have all shots hit one target like in PSU.

Zyrusticae
Nov 18, 2010, 01:57 PM
Shotguns and axes, yes, mmm!

I want to make a Newman that wields heavy weapons and exclusively heavy weapons. Sure, I can make a CAST for that, but that's boring! Cute and small and terribly deadly is more my speed.

"En"
Nov 19, 2010, 12:08 AM
--Spreads: Shotguns are fine and dandy, but I always viewed them as watered-down weapons in the crowd control department. Shotgun and Spread don't necessarily have to be in the same weapon class, but if I had to choose one or the other, I'd love to get Spreads back.

--Fists: In my opinion, they've gotten fists wrong in both attempts. In PSO, their awkward animation made them almost entirely impossible to use, and in PSU, they turned them into... whatever you want to call those bulky atrocities. Don't get me wrong, I did like Fists in PSU, but I'd rather have a proper style of unarmed combat. I hope they bring the old fists back, with a better battle animation than KICK-SIDEKICK-PAWNCH!

--Doublesabers: I was not amused by PSU Doublesabers. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, though I'm unsure as to whether or not I'm in the minority opinion. Turning Doublesabers into awkward, slow, mob control weapons was a real let-down. This tradition seemed to copy over to PSZ, so it's likely they'll remain this way in PSO2, but that doesn't stop me from holding a small glimmer of hope that they'll bring the old Doublesabers back.

--Twin Swords: While we're on the subject of single-target weapons, I actually liked having slow Twin Swords, because they easily made up for it in damage output. It took more precision to begin and carry out a combo-attack, but the often-high ATP made it worth the trouble in the end. I liked Twin Sabers in PSU, and continue to use them (as I'm sure many people do, thanks to Blade Destruction) in PSP2, but part of me longs for the old Twin Swords back.

--Sabers: Sabers are quite obviously going to be in PSO in some form or another, because they're not only the symbol of the Hunter arsenal, but of the traditional warrior class of ANY Role-Playing Game. In PSO, Sabers had a straight-forward and highly aggressive combo which allowed the wielder to push back their target without giving it the chance to counter. In PSU, it seemed more like a weapon you'd swing around in front of you, inflicting damage, but not giving you any solid opportunities to continue the thrashing. Photon Arts like Infinite Storm further bastardized what used to be an instant classic weapon, and even with high ATP and a one-handed requirement, Sabers in PSU just felt... empty.

--Swords: It's completely understandable that a sword of such a great size would be heavy, and thus slow, but not as slow as PSU made it out to be. I'm not going to get locked into a debate on "realism," especially not for a fantasy game that has your character spinning toward enemies like a tornado with Doublesabers, levitating off the ground with Twin Sabers, or riding a goddamn Spear like a surfboard, to name a few. But Swords in PSU felt much slower than they should have been. Coupled with the fact that there were very few options to raise your attacking speed - none of which came in the form of a permanant equip, such as the /Battle items from PSO - PSU made Swords feel pretty useless by comparison.

--Partisans: I loved Spears. I found Spears to be a welcome addition to the franchise. However, they were, by no means, an effective replacement for the Partisan/Halbert weapon class. With all of the "cookie cutter" weapon types in PSU, I'm shocked that Partisans weren't in the game. Sabers, Daggers, Twin Daggers, Twin Sabers, and Axe were essentially carbon copies of each other, being single-target weapons, but differing in speed, power, number of combos, and animation style. Partisans could have easily been classified as a "Faster, yet weaker" Sword. I truly hope they make the decision to bring them back.

--Machineguns: I'm not saying they should bring back the "always dual-wield" Mechguns from PSO, but I'd like for them to do something other than "Hold Square and watch the carnage." In my ideal PSO2, I'd like to have guns no longer consume TP/PP, and if that means they have to bring back the combos, so be it. If combos for guns aren't brought back, at least give Mechguns a cooldown point. Or, perhaps, even give every gun a cooldown bar which, when it's depleted, the gun will need to recharge. Then again, I'm not overly worried about the outcome of Mechguns, because PSZ got it right. And if PSO2 is truly going to be the successor to PSO, I don't see why they wouldn't borrow ideas primarily from PSO and PSZ.

--Unique Weapon Types: Something I loved about PSO was how unique some of the weapons were. Frozen Shooter, the freeze bomb firing rifle. Vjaya, the grandpappy of all charge weapons. Spread Needle, the handgun-rifle-spread hybrid. Yasminkov-9000M, the rifle-ranged mechgun. It seems like the only unique weapon trait that was brought over from PSO was the "multi target" functionality of Excalibur, and even that was taken and turned into a common, uninteresting trait. I'd like to see a little bit more creativity in the weapons department, the likes of which I haven't seen since PSO.

--Special Attacks: I like the special effects some weapons posess in PSU, and the element synthesis from PSZ, but part of me really misses the ability to use special attacks. You know; the ability to attempt an attack with a special effect, rather than giving each attack a chance to have the effect activate. I'm sure PSO2 could find a way to incorperate both, in a similar fashion to the aforementioned unique weapon types.



That's my two cents. If you don't agree with something I've said here, I welcome constructive debating, but not hate-fueled flaming. So, if you feel the need to give me a response along the lines of "I don't agree with you because --," please keep it nice and neat.


PS: I have no further peeves with any of the other weapons. Not any that I can think of right now, that is. I'll edit this post if something does come to mind.

Kent
Nov 19, 2010, 02:09 AM
PARTISANS. Dear GOD I hate spears. Partisans, damn it.
You know, I think that if Spears were kept as a unique weapon type, Scythes could easily fill the niche that Partisans had in PSO.

In fact, it might even be more appropriate if they're a melee-centric weapon that, as a baseline, adds to the user's MST to boost technique power as well.

LeonAlabard
Nov 19, 2010, 09:36 AM
I am looking forward to the return of mechguns and swords that were quick.

This.

Also,
Katanas as a weapon type with their own combo animation;
Scythes as a weapon type too;
Keep the twin daggers' animation from PSU (or something similar); [And more sword-like twin daggers, like Twin Kamui]
Double sabers as a rare weapon type;
LongBows as a quicker weapon type based on TEC.
Shields as a weapon type just like they are on PSPo2.
Gunblades from PSZ, maybe as a rare type too;
More rare/uniques weapon types.
Remove Tech-Mags and R-Mags (and bring back the normal Mags). Or, OpaOpa R-Mags as a weapon type that you equip as a Unit on your shield, so you can at least block while using it.

Seth Astra
Nov 19, 2010, 09:58 AM
If shields are implemented as in PSP2, I'd also like to see a buckler type gear, basically a smaller shield, that can be equipped with anything (except another shield).

Allison_W
Nov 19, 2010, 03:50 PM
You know, I think that if Spears were kept as a unique weapon type, Scythes could easily fill the niche that Partisans had in PSO.

In fact, it might even be more appropriate if they're a melee-centric weapon that, as a baseline, adds to the user's MST to boost technique power as well.

Considering this would basically let me make my old PSOBB FOmarl right down to Soul Eater nostalgia, I'm purchasing a ticket for this bus.

Norco
Nov 20, 2010, 07:38 AM
I know this is about weapon types but... as long as Double Cannon is in the game, then I'm sold!

Drawers
Nov 20, 2010, 03:17 PM
Unarmed combat and combat with every weapon type. Single two-handed big ass machine guns (one with a DBZ beam effect). All the old PSO weapon's with their signature specials and then some. NO PHOTON ARTS!! OMFG WORST IDEA FOR A PS GAME EVER!!

Androids should never be able to cast techniques, equipe force weapons, or have tp, but have traps instead and regenerate hp. CAST using techniques beats the purpose of them even being CASTs and the barrier they have in the PS world. No stupid beast or duman class. Omfg PSU is the worst thing to ever happen to PS, I hate ST with a passion because of PSU, PLEASE NO NEW CLASSES PERIOD. I know that has nothing to do with this topic, but I just have to speak my opinion.


I know this is about weapon types but... as long as Double Cannon is in the game, then I'm sold!

Thanks for reminding me, as long as they take the retarded light show every weapon has in PSU then I'll agree with you, but it looks retarded in PSP2 with the stupid light rings around it. :| I don't get how they managed to single-handedly fuck up a good game, but if they fuck this game up I will destroy the world!!

MAXrobo
Nov 20, 2010, 07:44 PM
I actually liked the big, overly complicated, and flashy weapons in PSU. i had losts of weapons i carried around just because they looked cool in that game. the thing i really hated about PSU is that all the rares did that same thing. i hope in PSO2 that most of the rares have crazy and unique abilitys like they had in PSO.

Ryna
Nov 20, 2010, 09:00 PM
I'd like to see the return of the Partisan class from PSO. I always found the longsword classes in PSO and PSU to be limiting. Partisans were generally fast enough to pull off a full combo in Ultimate mode.

I'd also like to see the PSU implementation of spears. They were a mainstay on might Hunter characters over the years.

Allison_W
Nov 20, 2010, 10:17 PM
Unarmed combat and combat with every weapon type. Single two-handed big ass machine guns (one with a DBZ beam effect). All the old PSO weapon's with their signature specials and then some. NO PHOTON ARTS!! OMFG WORST IDEA FOR A PS GAME EVER!

I'm sorry, I have to say I really like having something I can do with my weapons other than LIGHT ATTACK! LIGHT ATTACK! HEAVY ATTACK! REPEAT!

That said, the execution of PAs in PSU was terrible, if only because they left no point to using regular attacks and instead of LIGHT ATTACK! LIGHT ATTACK! HEAVY ATTACK! REPEAT! it became DUS DAGGAS! DUS DAGGAS! DUS DAGGAS! REPEAT! I much prefer the execution of PAs in PSZ, where even if most of them aren't that great, they supplement regular attacks rather than completely replacing them. And really, that's the point: there is no need to go back to weapons not having special attacks.

Randomness
Nov 21, 2010, 12:21 AM
I'd like to see the return of the Partisan class from PSO. I always found the longsword classes in PSO and PSU to be limiting. Partisans were generally fast enough to pull off a full combo in Ultimate mode.

I'd also like to see the PSU implementation of spears. They were a mainstay on might Hunter characters over the years.

I'd also like to see partisans back. But spears were useful too.

Maybe mix partisans and swords together and make em fast enough to be useful.

Axes can be the slow ass MASSIVE DAMAGE weapons.

Bows as a force range weapon were an okay idea, but I'd rather they switch to something fast shooting. Or just ditch bows and have more cards. And cards should NOT arc. Seriously.

Also, shields should be PSZ style. Smacking things upside the head with a giant shield is fun, especially when you can lolturtle afterwards. (I loved to death running heart shields in PSZ on a HUnewearl. Linear Shake was fun)

Kent
Nov 21, 2010, 05:01 AM
I'm sorry, I have to say I really like having something I can do with my weapons other than LIGHT ATTACK! LIGHT ATTACK! HEAVY ATTACK! REPEAT!

That said, the execution of PAs in PSU was terrible, if only because they left no point to using regular attacks and instead of LIGHT ATTACK! LIGHT ATTACK! HEAVY ATTACK! REPEAT! it became DUS DAGGAS! DUS DAGGAS! DUS DAGGAS! REPEAT! I much prefer the execution of PAs in PSZ, where even if most of them aren't that great, they supplement regular attacks rather than completely replacing them. And really, that's the point: there is no need to go back to weapons not having special attacks.
This is one area where Phantasy Star Portable 2 saw improvement.

There was a meter, essentially a stamina meter, that your PAs would take a chunk out of whenever you used them. You could get only a few out of it before it bottomed out (approximately, it's been a while since I played the demo of it). It's a low-capacity meter that could refill pretty quickly on its own, but it refills faster if you hit with normal attacks, and even faster if you use precise timing with them.

On top of this, there was also a combo you could rack up with normal attacks that would boost the power of the next PA used on that target - but you have to build up the combo first with regular attacks. The only unfortunate implication of this was how it worked in regards to techniques, but that was really a stipulation due to the fact that techniques are still idiotically tied directly to weapons (square-button technique builds the combo, triangle-button technique depletes it and gains its bonus).

I would propose that the proper solution to the idea of how such things could work in PSO2, could be something like this:


[spoiler-box]

In addition to HP and TP, all characters have a third meter, essentially an aforementioned stamina meter. This meter does not grow in size through levelling up, but may be increased by equipping special equipment (such as armor units that add to max stamina).
Stamina recovers at a set rate, but receives small additional returns for every successful normal/heavy attack (heavy attack hits probably returning slightly more, since they're riskier/slower).
Every weapon type has several basic skills that can be used with it, and may be able to chain into themselves or each other (giving the entire chain the boost from the combo).
Techniques can be charged to unleash a more powerful version of that technique (note: this is not how one would go about using different techniques of the same element - charging Foie doesn't turn it into Rafoie, it just makes it a more powerful Foie).
All skills and charged techniques consume stamina. All skills and charged techniques aren't very much more powerful than their standard versions (standard attacks and uncharged techniques) at a base level. However, they do get a bonus from the combos built up by regular attacks/techniques on that enemy, and can be far more powerful than normal, should a substantial combo be built up.
While any player is finishing a combo on an enemy using a skill or charged technique, other players in the game can also use skills or charged techniques on the target at the same time or in close succession, so everyone can take advantage of it. Each player can only exploit the combo once however (though, it may be possible for characters to chain together both skills and a charged technique).
I think something like this could end up working well - especially with the separation of Stamina and TP as player resources. This way, we'd get enhanced team-play aspects, significant additional depth to the combat system and players would still get a variety of different special attacks they can do for different situations. There's already a wide variety of techniques for use, but melee and ranged combat could still use something else they can do with their weapons. Something as simple as providing these per weapon type as "Extra Attack A/B/C" that players can map to their action palettes, could easily help alleviate this.

For example, if we're talking about Sabers, Extra Attack A could be a wide horizontal slash, Extra Attack B could be a powerful vertical slash with slightly extended forward range than normal, and Extra Attack C could be an upward slash that knocks enemies into the air, temporarily disabling them (not as much airtime as similar attacks from PSU, but enough to prevent enemies from moving, while still being able to be hit and juggled). These would each have their own individual chains of using the same Extra Attack in a row, or allow players to mix-and-match and make different chains out of them. However, they'd be limited to either a specific number of attacks per chain, or until they run out of Stamina or stop attacking.
[/spoiler-box]

I'd also like to see partisans back. But spears were useful too.

Maybe mix partisans and swords together and make em fast enough to be useful.

Axes can be the slow ass MASSIVE DAMAGE weapons.

Bows as a force range weapon were an okay idea, but I'd rather they switch to something fast shooting. Or just ditch bows and have more cards. And cards should NOT arc. Seriously.
On Spears and Partisans: I still think that Spears should be in as, well, Spears, but Scythes could easily replace Partisans in that functional niche. They could also be a melee-AOE Force weapon (as in, requires MST to use, has some sort of Force-like bonus, such as bonus MST, when equipped), but also be usable by Hunters (should someone decide they want a weapon that will work well in melee, on top of boosting MST).

I could see Axes having their own niche as a two-handed, slow weapon that hits a single target. Of course, they'd have to hit pretty hard to be able to be a viable substitute for a good Saber for single-target big numbers. Perhaps the best way to think of them, on the sliding scale of speed vs. single-target damage would put Daggers and Axes at opposite ends, with Sabers somewhere in the middle.

I think that Bows are slightly redundant when there are Rifles, because they're almost identical from a functional level. Cards were a very interesting and fun weapon type in PSO, and I'd really like to see them return in that form, not the silly little fan-things from PSU. Especially since, as a ranged weapon, they had an interesting bonus to using them at melee-range (because the third attack in the combo threw three cards at once, all of which can hit the same target - effectively making it a hybrid melee/ranged weapon that could really only be used by Forces).

Adriano
Nov 21, 2010, 10:09 AM
One thing I loved that they added in PSU
...Crossbows

Chaobo99
Nov 21, 2010, 01:03 PM
They should just add in ever-single weapon type that has appeared in a PS game :O! ..and more.

Just give me back my whole line of Yashminikov(spelling) weapons and I am a happy person :P.

Allison_W
Nov 21, 2010, 01:16 PM
words

I've heard of PSP2's updates; I just haven't played it myself. I'll admit I'm unsure about separating PP/Stamina and TP into separate resources, but it occurs to me that with a PP Recovery unit in PSZ, its TP didn't work all that differently from PSU's PP, with fluids replacing photon charges--so perhaps linking PAs to a TP-style bar that doesn't recover as quickly as PSP2's PP wouldn't actually do much to help the problem. It further occurs to me that placing the same burden on techniques (which are a force's primary form of attack) as on PAs (which are not supposed to replace regular attacks) could be problematic... so perhaps you're right.

What most of us seem to be able to agree on is that PAs should stay, but that they should not be able to simply up and replace regular attacks the way they did in PSU: they should either be at least somewhat situational, a la PSZ, or they should be tied to a spam-prevention mechanic a la PSP2. I'm not in agreement about PSP2's chain system, which seems to reward fast weapons over heavy weapons far too highly. PSZ's chain system was a little less crazy: it only ticked up when multiple players completed a full combo on a single target.

On techniques and PAs, here's one: what if the simplest techniques, like single-target or basic line techniques (and perhaps channeled techniques), had no PP cost (and built chains, if chaining is to return), and high-powered or AoE nukes were more costly (and complete chains, if chaining is to return), essentially giving techs their own "basic attacks" and "special attacks" for forces to work with?

Chaobo99
Nov 21, 2010, 01:24 PM
Maybe they should raise the cost of PA usage to a more significant amount and have regular attacks aid in recovering PP. Even then.... we still had photon charges that would charge us to full >.>.

Kyrith_Ranger_Pso
Nov 21, 2010, 03:23 PM
Double Swords like Sange & Yasha, Jizai, Asuka, etc.

but they better not make the Humar and Hucast classes run excessivley stupidly with them.

JCGamer
Nov 21, 2010, 08:20 PM
guns and more guns like l&k38 or freeze shooter

Kent
Nov 21, 2010, 08:46 PM
I'm not in agreement about PSP2's chain system, which seems to reward fast weapons over heavy weapons far too highly.
Easy solution: Weigh combo contribution differently based on the weapon used. Of course, if you're talking about things like Swords against a single target... The entire point of Swords is to hit groups, so this really needs to be considered, as well. (Also, Swords should be able to hit more than three enemies at once.) Choice of melee weapons as such, should be pretty situational.


On techniques and PAs, here's one: what if the simplest techniques, like single-target or basic line techniques (and perhaps channeled techniques), had no PP cost (and built chains, if chaining is to return), and high-powered or AoE nukes were more costly (and complete chains, if chaining is to return), essentially giving techs their own "basic attacks" and "special attacks" for forces to work with?
The biggest problem with this, is that if a Force is trying to whittle down an entire group, they'd be blowing the team's combos on individual enemies on every cast. If techniques were to be charged to exploit a combo, then the caster would be in full control of whether or not to build or exploit the combo(s) at hand.

Though, that's not to say that I'm against the idea of Forces getting a basic weapon that essentially fires non-elemental technique bolts as its main attack. Perhaps Wands could do that, giving non-hybrid Forces a means of building their combos without plowing through all of their TP. This could also allow them to rebuild their Stamina faster, after blowing up a horde of Rappies.

ColonD
Nov 22, 2010, 07:16 PM
I don't know how difficult it would be or wouldn't be, but I wouldn't mind if single handed weapons equipped like I hoped they would in PSU when it was announced, were you could pick which hand was in which, instead of pistols forced into the left and everything else in the right.

That way I could have a pistol/mechgun or a saber/dagger or double wand or anything/throwing weapon.

I really liked that PSO had some of it's types as exclusively rare, it made getting them that much better, like Claws and the Throwing/Card ones.

I would love to see a whip, and MUCH less glow; the Glow in PSO was fine to me, and I don't mind that PSU had them colored to the element they were, but MY EYES. TOO BRIGHT ARGAGAGALE.

I also liked being able to tell what weapon was what at a glance if I had an awesome memory, you can't see the distinguishing hilts on PSU past THE GLOW.

As for returning PSU weapons, Whips and Bows~!

Then Gunblades I wouldn't mind, I didn't care for PSZ much, but it was my favorite.

As for New, I like the idea someone mentioned of a TRUE machinegun, the two-handed type. Also Books as a separate one. *Shrugs.* I like Books as a weapon.

Kent
Nov 22, 2010, 08:41 PM
I don't know how difficult it would be or wouldn't be, but I wouldn't mind if single handed weapons equipped like I hoped they would in PSU when it was announced, were you could pick which hand was in which, instead of pistols forced into the left and everything else in the right.

That way I could have a pistol/mechgun or a saber/dagger or double wand or anything/throwing weapon.
It'd be nice to be able to freely-equip one-handed weapons in either hand, if they could make it work. At the same time though, it should be perfectly viable to just equip a single one-handed weapon and fight like that (such as equipping one saber instead of two). Otherwise, one-handed weapons end up only existing for the purpose of dual-wielding, effectively taking away from unique weapon setups that someone could end up using.

That's not to say that a Saber wielded singly should hit as hard as an Axe, but it'd make sense for it to get some bonus to accuracy or damage, just as a bonus for having a free off-hand.

Rashiid
Nov 22, 2010, 10:01 PM
Something new and random/unique would be cool, like Vanille's Binding Rod in FFXIII.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/214/928790_20090803_screen003.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Very bizarre, but strangely kicks ass.

MAXrobo
Nov 25, 2010, 12:29 AM
Something new and random/unique would be cool

Like a rocket propelled grapple hand that could shoot out and pull enemys toward you!

Demon-
Nov 25, 2010, 06:24 AM
I think they should bring back all weapon types from PSO and PSU really. I'll go through which versions are better.
Also I'm throwing everything from PSZ out the window because it sucked so much and I hated what they did to the weapons in it...


One-handed striking

Sabers - In PSU they had better animation IMO but it can be improved.

Daggers - The single dagger was nice on PSU. Nice attack animation.

Claws - Claws were so bad on PSO. They were a huge joke with that horrible animation. In PSU they actually made them decent but I still perfered a saber or dagger.

Whips - Whips on PSU were ok at best. They were nice for crowd control too bad the dmg was low. Also while the animations were nice on female characters they just looked wrong whenever males used them. Make the animations more manly for male characters and add some leather whips.

Slicers - Great weapons on both PSO and PSU. I like they way they hit better in PSO.

Katanas - Should be their own weapon type with their own attacks.

Knuckles - The single-handed version like PSO only not with crappy animation.

Two-handed Striking

Swords - By far my favorite weapon on PSO. Talk about crowd control. The attack radius was just awesome. You could hit many targets and do very good dmg. They were a huge let down on PSU. Yeah I know Tornado Break hit up to 4-6 targets but I never did like the animations. So yeah..... SEGA bring back PSO swords please.

Twin Knuckles - These were pretty nice on PSU. The animations be could be better.

Partisans/Spears - I liked them better on PSO because I always thought of these weapons as a crowd-control.

Double Sabers - Ah another of my favorite weapons. Honestly I liked them on both games so I'm still not sure. Leaning toward PSO though.

Axes - Loved these on PSU. Mainly because of the uber dmg they did. Normal attacks could be better.

Twin Sabers - The animation on PSO was a little slow for my liking but I used them sometimes because of they did nice dmg but so yeah I liked them a little better on PSU.

Twin Daggers - The twin dagger animations on PSU was superb (although hucaseal has some nice attack animation on PSO).

Twin Claws - These were nice on PSU. The attack animation could be better though.


Single-handed Ranged


Handguns - In PSU I liked the fact that you could hold a melee weapon in the other hand so keep it like that. Although the RAmarl handgun animation was just gangsta!

Crossbows - They were nice in PSU. 3 bullets and shooting while strafing was nice.

Cards - Sucked so bad on PSO. They were never worth using IMO but in PSU they made them much nicer. Shooting while strafing and decent dmg. Also was nice against aerial monsters. A nice compliment to some force types.

Machineguns - Single-handed should stay like in PSU but I also think they should make dual mechguns.

RCSMs - If they bring back mags then they will whipe this weapon but if they don't then they need to improve them because in they weren't worth using that much.

Two-handed Ranged

Rifle - I actually liked them on both games but I'm thinking more on PSU due to the knockdown after you get your bullets leveled passed 40.

Shotguns - This is a tough one because I liked both but I'm thinking go back to like they were in PSO: huge, slow, and powerfull!

Longbows - These were nice on PSU but needed a little more dmg to compete with rifles.

Grenades - A very cool addition in PSU I thought. Yes they were annoying if your using them on smaller monsters due to the launch effect but they were awesome on bosses especially dragons.

Laser Cannons - They did some nice dmg if you hit a bunch on monsters grouped in a line but then again they always were situational weapons.

Twin Handguns - These were nice on PSU. Very fast dmg and the strafing while shooting was awesome.

Twin Mechguns - I did like mechguns in PSO. I just thought they were a little slow in animation time. Now just make it so they can shoot while strafing.

Launcher - Like PSO. Complete with explosion! None of that Laser Cannon shit on PSU. Man that was retarded.

One-handed Technic

Wands - I'm thinking they should keep it like PSO when it comes to technics. I didn't like the whole equiping technics to weapons.

Rods - Same as wands

TCSMs - Same as wands if they don't bring back mags.

MAXrobo
Nov 25, 2010, 11:22 AM
I think they should bring back whips the same as they where in PSU. they were my favorite weapon aside from axes. maybe speed up the animations abit.

Unit_24
Dec 6, 2010, 11:24 AM
Give me hammers plz!

Skye-Fox713
Dec 7, 2010, 07:23 PM
Some weapons, weapon styles or just ways of holding weapons I would like to see...

An Assault Rifle type weapon

A return of all of the current weapon types that we have right now in PSO and PSU and be able to have those types purchasable from vendors like PSU

Dual wield mechguns like the classic PSO ones.

While equipping a Single 1 handed weapon Like a Handgun, or a Mechgun for the character to hold it with both hands like how the characters held them in PSO

like this...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:FT2OS1Cs7tckDM:http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/young-kiwi/1911Grip.jpg&t=1

and like this for an Mechgun (were originaly dual weild in PSO but when PSU cam out they became 1 handed and I would like the characters to hold the Mechguns like this when only the mechgun is equipped)...

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/e/ed/CODBO-SMG.jpg/500px-CODBO-SMG.jpg

NoiseHERO
Dec 7, 2010, 09:08 PM
I'm gonna abuse that thing I heard about infinite content in saying they better have infinite weapon types!

nunchucks

more bombs (hah traps)

more gun types

No more sock'em bopper knuckle weapon designs (just make em normal-sized gloves and it shouldn't matter much if we can fight unarmed or not, though that can still be the same gameplay behind said "knuckle" weapon.)

More photon arts but balanced in a way where spamming them only makes your look like a douche.

Cooler attack animations, and combo growth so you're not tempted to spam photon arts to begin with.

and yeah I can die happy with that.

Pirrip
Dec 7, 2010, 09:14 PM
Katanas can't just be considered a single-handed weapon... Kendo and Iaido use two-handed techniques for the most part.


I'm in favor of the switch-axe idea. ^^ Monhan anyone?

MAXrobo
Dec 7, 2010, 09:16 PM
I'm gonna abuse that thing I heard about infinite content in saying they better have infinite weapon types!

nunchucks

more bombs (hah traps)

more gun types

No more sock'em bopper knuckle weapon designs (just make em normal-sized gloves and it shouldn't matter much if we can fight unarmed or not, though that can still be the same gameplay behind said "knuckle" weapon.)

More photon arts but balanced in a way where spamming them only makes your look like a douche.

Cooler attack animations, and combo growth so you're not tempted to spam photon arts to begin with.

and yeah I can die happy with that.

but if you die you cant play the game! wouldnt you rather live happy? :-D

nunchuck weapons would be funny, but i think they would end up alot like whips with shorter range.

i think there needs to be some sort of ranged version of the axe. like an uber high powered, single target gun. like bazookas in PSZ but less crappy.

Wayu
Dec 7, 2010, 10:05 PM
^

Tomahawk (throwing axe)? Throwing knife, like a kunai? That kinda stuff? That's basically a slicer...sorta.

-Wayu

Chaobo99
Dec 7, 2010, 11:41 PM
-Nunuchuks can have super-speed based combos but you litterally have to be 2-inches away from target lol. The PA's 1st hit is the shoriyuken, the 2nd pa is the hadoken to send them flying, then the lv.21 3rd hit on the PA MUST be the flying Bruce Lee Kick to kick them wherever you blasted them to. ^^

-Also an alternative ranged weapon for a Hunter should be a tomahawk or a large throwing knife. Hard to aim, slow-ish animation speed, but guaruntees knock-down on target from the distance (excellent tool for hitting nano-dragon based creatures out of the air). Also only has "1-hit combo". Basically once thrown there's the slight pause before another can be thrown. That way, it's a situational weapon vs. going for the common pistol.

-Rangers should have a target locater weapon that fires a small missle from outer space(not SUV :P) but takes a bit(4 seconds upon hitting attack button) to reach target (much like axe but further away), which can be balanced by "damage based on radius", if the target moves, you're gonna miss or wing it, oh well.

-Techers should have...ummm... more pretty spells yay!

Dongra
Dec 8, 2010, 01:26 AM
Some weapons, weapon styles or just ways of holding weapons I would like to see...

An Assault Rifle type weapon

A return of all of the current weapon types that we have right now in PSO and PSU and be able to have those types purchasable from vendors like PSU

Dual wield mechguns like the classic PSO ones.

While equipping a Single 1 handed weapon Like a Handgun, or a Mechgun for the character to hold it with both hands like how the characters held them in PSO

like this...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:FT2OS1Cs7tckDM:http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/young-kiwi/1911Grip.jpg&t=1

and like this for an Mechgun (were originaly dual weild in PSO but when PSU cam out they became 1 handed and I would like the characters to hold the Mechguns like this when only the mechgun is equipped)...

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/e/ed/CODBO-SMG.jpg/500px-CODBO-SMG.jpg
I'd like to support this idea with some kind of slight advantage to using a one handed weapon by itself over having a back up. For example, you should get an ATA boost if you use a single Handgun or Machinegun since it would be more stable if you used two hands. Same could apply to melee weapons as well but with an ATP boost. Oh, look at me trying to add ideas that will never be.

RenzokukenZ
Dec 8, 2010, 07:43 AM
I would like that, with whatever weapons they'll end up adding, they'll make it so that each race (and maybe gender) has a different stance and attack animation for each weapon.

Wayu
Dec 8, 2010, 07:54 AM
Dunno if I should make a new topic on this or not, but what I'd really like to see is not new weapon types, but rather different weapon styles.

For example, sword fighting. There are several types of swordplay around the world, such as fencing, kendo, kenjutsu, laido, and the various Renaissance swordsmanship schools. Shooting is another example, though somewhat limited. I personally think it would be awesome if we could customize our character's fighting styles to change up how we actually use our weapons.

I'll make sword fighting another example. Fencing is a type of swordplay based around stabs, quick movements, and accuracy. Kenjutsu is based on cutting power, speed, technique, and reaction. Depending on the chosen style, the player could gain access to more hits per combo and power & accuracy bonuses.

-Wayu

Purple Lamplight
Dec 8, 2010, 08:21 AM
Twin Slicers would be cool. But as long as they were like slicers in pso.

MAXrobo
Dec 8, 2010, 06:04 PM
i also hope they change the animations for weapons depending on race/gender. have you ever seen how ridiculous an RAcast looks using a slicer in PSO! that attack animation was the sole reason i never used slicers in that game.

•Col•
Dec 8, 2010, 07:14 PM
i also hope they change the animations for weapons depending on race/gender. have you ever seen how ridiculous an RAcast looks using a slicer in PSO! that attack animation was the sole reason i never used slicers in that game.

Well to be fair, I felt like the slicer's attack animation looked stupid regardless of who used it.....

AlphaDragoon
Dec 9, 2010, 02:29 AM
They're already gonna put in my weapon of choice (the good ol' Saber) so I'm set.

r00tabaga
Jun 28, 2011, 12:02 PM
I wanna see photon nunchuks! Nunchuks are poorly represented in today's RPGs....lol

Nitro Vordex
Jun 28, 2011, 12:42 PM
No more sock'em bopper knuckle weapon designs (just make em normal-sized gloves and it shouldn't matter much if we can fight unarmed or not, though that can still be the same gameplay behind said "knuckle" weapon.)

Screw you, I loved my oversized fists. Though they look hilarious when you put them on a max everything character, especially a CAST.

Ikk Hikk PA return please. Best PA ever.

NoiseHERO
Jun 28, 2011, 01:27 PM
Blegh blargh blorgh...

Reeaally wanna see the new/returning weapon types... Hope theres a lot to begin with.

As for fist, I guess weapon designs should be a little more diverse, instead of only one or two rare/semi-rare weapons looking unique, then everything else is pretty much the same shape, or even a re-skin.

Seems like in terms of varying designs. Only daggers really lucked out enough for me, in PSU-PSP series.

Anon_Fire
Jun 28, 2011, 01:49 PM
I wanna see photon nunchuks! Nunchuks are poorly represented in today's RPGs....lol

Did you really have to bump this old thread?

r00tabaga
Jun 28, 2011, 01:57 PM
Is there really anything else going on? Besides, I was 1/2 serious. I loved Maxi's fighting style in Soul Calibur and I didn't wanna start a new thread so I <gasp> did some research.

Sol_Vent
Jun 28, 2011, 02:07 PM
Is there really anything else going on?

No kidding. And this has gotta be the funnest thread around, anyway.

So, about this:

# Category-based weapon training system (obscured)

I hope this means that we'll be able to have our characters specialize in certain weapon types. I've wanted something like that for quite awhile, it would really be a cool way of individualizing characters. Kinda like how players are generally recognized by the types of weapons they use in Monster Hunter. Lance-user, that's me.

And speaking of, partisans and spears need to be two separate weapon categories. Demon's Souls can do it, why not PSO2?

ARASHIKAGE
Jun 28, 2011, 02:15 PM
I wanna see photon nunchuks! Nunchuks are poorly represented in today's RPGs....lol

I'm glad you bumbed this thread, we should bring back some of the old topics to hold us over, before we get any real news on the game. The PSO2 forum has been rather boring lately.

Bring on the Nunchucks! Oh and since we are calling out weapons, I'd like to see Baseball Bats! Baseball is something Japan and American has in common and I'd like the chance to beat some enemies to a bloody pulp with my Louisville Slugger!

Lastly on the subject of attack animation, I would like to see weapons be matched with the proper animation. For example if it's a heavy sword like the Zanba, it should feel as such, and with more impacted in the attack. If it is a light thin katana blade like the Agito Repca, then it should have more of a slash and cut animation.

Soy Sauce
Jun 28, 2011, 02:35 PM
I think they need to make Shields be armor again and not a "weapon". Grant it i have never used a shield mostly because the 1 handed weps just dont seem justifiable in comparison to twin sabers; But that's old news

As many have said before me: Partisans need to come back for sure. Spears were nice but they are not partisans.

I noticed someone say that Twin Sabers be rare type weapons in PSO2. but if you think about it; they WERE rare type weapons back in PSO. There were only a hand full (okay maybe more than a hand full, but they wernt falling out of monsters asses). But i do agree, Blade Destruction should not be as readily available as it is o.O

I just want them to bring back more classic PSO weapons like the Dragon slayer and stuff. However i am glad they brought the Yasmakovfs back (pardon the spelling).


...oh and Dark Bridge... <3

r00tabaga
Jun 28, 2011, 03:03 PM
I'm glad you bumbed this thread, we should bring back some of the old topics to hold us over, before we get any real news on the game. The PSO2 forum has been rather boring lately.

Bring on the Nunchucks! Oh and since we are calling out weapons, I'd like to see Baseball Bats! Baseball is something Japan and American has in common and I'd like the chance to beat some enemies to a bloody pulp with my Louisville Slugger!

Lastly on the subject of attack animation, I would like to see weapons be matched with the proper animation. For example if it's a heavy sword like the Zanba, it should feel as such, and with more impacted in the attack. If it is a light thin katana blade like the Agito Repca, then it should have more of a slash and cut animation.
Yes to the baseball bat and yes to the item-specific attack animations.

S|e|7|e|N
Jun 28, 2011, 04:56 PM
the return of Mehcguns and gunblades

uhawww
Jun 28, 2011, 05:35 PM
As long as the Swords are PSPo2i speed, I'm down.
That's been my type of choice for a decade.

With the emphasis on TPS gameplay, I'm now very very interested in how mech/machineguns and rifles will handle in context to the flow of the game.

NoiseHERO
Jun 28, 2011, 05:43 PM
^

Swords and rifles are the only weapons we've seen...

and they look kinda speedy at least in terms of how swords normally are...

Which is what scares me into thinking weapons getting multiple uses might mean less weapon types = me being disappointed. ]:

But I've already said that like 20 times before.

Tetsaru
Jun 28, 2011, 09:39 PM
For the most part, I'm happy with most of the weapons we already have, but here's what I'd like to see:


Scythes. Has the range of a sword, hits like an axe against multiple enemies, but would probably be one of the slowest weapons in the game. Soul Eater could be one of these.


More blunt weapons, such as bats, hammers, maces, poles, etc.


Katanas and great katanas being separate weapons from things like sabers and swords. Things like Agito, Sange & Yasha, and Tsumikiri-J Sword could fall under these.


Rocket launchers (NUG2000 Bazooka), grenade launchers (Gur Bazga, etc.), and laser cannons (Adahna Cannon, etc.) being separate weapon types, or different attack types for the same weapon.


Assault rifles that can fire rapidly or in bursts (kinda like machine guns), and sniper rifles that fire very slowly, but are strong and have incredible range.


Give different attacks (PA's, if you will) to the same weapon, so it can function in different ways, and allow players to be able to use all of them without being forced to only link one at a time. Also, make each attack unique so that no weapon type becomes favored over another.


When weapons drop, are synthed, or are grinded/upgraded, give them variable stats. This will help encourage more item hunts, trading, etc., because not only will people be looking for a Psycho Wand, they'll be looking for a BETTER Psycho Wand.


Give rare weapons their own unique attacks, perks, and animations back.


Make some weapons useful for stats they're not intended for, such as a saber that increases magic power, a sword that increases defense, etc.

NoiseHERO
Jun 28, 2011, 10:48 PM
For the most part, I'm happy with most of the weapons we already have, but here's what I'd like to see:


When weapons drop, are synthed, or are grinded/upgraded, give them variable stats. This will help encourage more item hunts, trading, etc., because not only will people be looking for a Psycho Wand, they'll be looking for a BETTER Psycho Wand.



Meh... I see where you're coming from but... I'd rather get the rare I want and move on...

What bugged me about PSP2 is that the drops for the element, obviously, were gonna be random element and percentage.

The percentages is one thing... But feeling like you have to hunt more of an ultra rare because it has 6 different colors and a number rating will just give me the impression that they're really testing my patience for this game's replay value in obtaining the same goal over again...

Basically I'm saying this game series has a lot of rares, keep the reasons to actually go out and get one you already own to a minimum. If it's about competition, if this game DOESN'T have pvp, there'd be a more interesting way to go about "improving your characters."


BUT YEAH, nobody should have to hunt 40 psycho wands until they get one they're happy with, THEN worry about the other 400 rares.

Mike
Jun 29, 2011, 01:29 AM
The percentages is one thing... But feeling like you have to hunt more of an ultra rare because it has 6 different colors and a number rating will just give me the impression that they're really testing my patience for this game's replay value in obtaining the same goal over again...
Welcome to hunting a weapon in just about every (M)MO ever.

Darki
Jun 29, 2011, 01:41 AM
In most MMOs that I know, not ALL weapons have elements or that sort of damage modificators. In fact, elemental weapons are something more unique, specific of the weapon itself, sort of like Crimnson saber in PSU.

NoiseHERO
Jun 29, 2011, 02:06 AM
Welcome to hunting a weapon in just about every (M)MO ever.

Well I don't mind with an "improved" version of PSU's synth system where you still get to choose what you're looking for...

But with PSP2's pure drop system that kinda kicked me in the balls.

So I guess I have no worries either way, guessing on the small chunk of info we currently have with the game at least.

Reksanden
Jun 29, 2011, 04:25 AM
A weapon that can attack and dodge simultaniously sounds good.... Like some of the Longsword attacks from Monster Hunter.

NegaTsukasa
Jul 5, 2011, 03:17 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing something a bit rarer in option on most weapon lists. like Hammers.
I remember in PSO the only hammer weapon was the one that looked like Amy's.
other weapons-
Scythe
Dual Claws
Battle Staffs -(Like Monkey King Bar, Meteor Cudgel, etc.)
Mobile Turrets -(Like from Halo) its a neat concept of a heavier ATK type machine gun that can be used with farther range.)
Chakram and or crescent blades -( After seeing the Twin Chakram, I hoped there would be other types. alas, there was not.)

MAXrobo
Jul 6, 2011, 12:11 AM
it would be cool if CASTs could get some sort of jetpack (maybe in place for techs?) so they could hover around for a bit. if your a ranger you could get a better view of a battle for sniping or a hunter could do longer aerial combos.

it would have to be very limited. like only hovering for a couple seconds and only get a little higher then most people can jump.

r00tabaga
Jul 6, 2011, 09:40 AM
it would be cool if CASTs could get some sort of jetpack (maybe in place for techs?) so they could hover around for a bit. if your a ranger you could get a better view of a battle for sniping or a hunter could do longer aerial combos.

it would have to be very limited. like only hovering for a couple seconds and only get a little higher then most people can jump.

Someone mentioned this waaay way back and I still think it would be cool as long as it is only temporary...like U said.

RemiusTA
Jul 6, 2011, 12:42 PM
Keep all shitty anime cliche tropey weapons to a minimum. And by minimum i mean "rare only".

Doublesabers and Twin Sabers were cool because they were rare, which made them very unique. If we have crap like cards, gunblades, whips, Katanas, Scythes, ect. they're only cool when they're exclusive.


That's the only reason they're cool in the first place -- people do not use them because they are impractical. Making giant impractical weapons completely practical kind of....well, defeats the purpose, and the "Rule of Cool" aspect about them.


When you're in a room fulll of people using various forms of the basic weapon types, and someone walks in with a glowing katana, or twirling a Doublesaber around, or slicing people to pieces with two blades, or throwing magic cards at people, or a giant Buster Sword, they instantly look amazing. But when you START OFF with completely oversized blades....well, the luxury is lost.


For the most part, I'm happy with most of the weapons we already have, but here's what I'd like to see:


Scythes. Has the range of a sword, hits like an axe against multiple enemies, but would probably be one of the slowest weapons in the game. Soul Eater could be one of these.



Scythes are one of those weapons that are really just a luxury type. In all truth, they dont have to really have their own animations or functions, but if they DO, they can really just be situational weapons. There really isn't much a Scythe is good for that a Sword isn't, so if they have similar functions they should be seperated by their special abilities. (Like Soul Eater's Absorption)

Scythes i think should be like "magic melee" weapons, which are defined not so much by their attacks but by the perks you get for using them.





More blunt weapons, such as bats, hammers, maces, poles, etc.

Agreed. Also more PRACTICAL smaller weapons, like axes. They very much have their uses.





Katanas and great katanas being separate weapons from things like sabers and swords. Things like Agito, Sange & Yasha, and Tsumikiri-J Sword could fall under these.

I guess they just really got lazy with PSU, because PSO already did this. Agito Replica and sange were treated as sabers (which was even stupider, because the Saber animation in PSU was single handed...which was dumb)

I DO however much agree for the seperation of Katanas, Swords, and Great Katanas (Odachi's). They are different weapons.




Rocket launchers (NUG2000 Bazooka), grenade launchers (Gur Bazga, etc.), and laser cannons (Adahna Cannon, etc.) being separate weapon types, or different attack types for the same weapon.

Also agreed. Rocket Launchers probably will be much more interesting in this game, since Rifles apparently already have grenade launchers attached to them.



Assault rifles that can fire rapidly or in bursts (kinda like machine guns), and sniper rifles that fire very slowly, but are strong and have incredible range.

PSO2 trailer already shows this. The primary fire seems to be a burst, but towards the end you can see the ranger use a full-automatic firing feature. She also uses a grenade launcher attachment, like i mentioned above.



Give different attacks (PA's, if you will) to the same weapon, so it can function in different ways, and allow players to be able to use all of them without being forced to only link one at a time. Also, make each attack unique so that no weapon type becomes favored over another.

Yeah this needs to happen. It looks like Hunters will probably create combos from a choice of different attacks available for the weapon type. The original form of Photon Arts seems to be pretty much gone for the most part.




When weapons drop, are synthed, or are grinded/upgraded, give them variable stats. This will help encourage more item hunts, trading, etc., because not only will people be looking for a Psycho Wand, they'll be looking for a BETTER Psycho Wand.

No, no, no, and hell no. This is one of the reasons PSU was so frustrating to me.

There is an easy way to encourage you to keep looking for weapons -- the Synthesis system. In PSO, you had the Tekker system that made each unidentified drop a potential keeper depending on which class you are. Hopefully PSO2 will have a synthesis system that will allow you to customize specific weapons. But the LAST thing i want to see is more "minimum vs maximum" potential weapons. All it does is kill the satisfaction of getting something neat. You're supposed to get something and work it up, not get it and have it fluctuate.




Give rare weapons their own unique attacks, perks, and animations back.

Agreed. Take it a step farther -- give each super rare weapon it's own photon art!




Make some weapons useful for stats they're not intended for, such as a saber that increases magic power, a sword that increases defense, etc.

Much agreed, wanna see more PSO Elysion going on in this game. That weapon was cool.

Zyrusticae
Jul 6, 2011, 04:18 PM
Scythes. Has the range of a sword, hits like an axe against multiple enemies, but would probably be one of the slowest weapons in the game. Soul Eater could be one of these.



Lolwut? This is nonsense. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UHomsfpU0o[/U) is how scythes should be - fast, accurate, very powerful, but with an emphasis on controlling space and movement. Remember that PSO2 is not going to have the very basic attack system of PSO, nor the photon art spam of PSU.

And now that I think about it, if Just Attacks show up again, they should actually be Just (as in 2-or-3-frame windows, NOT a full second window) and modify the properties of the attack, not just give it higher damage or make it crit. It would be glorious. At least for fighting game aficionados.

RemiusTA
Jul 6, 2011, 04:45 PM
Yeah, Scythes are used for slicing, but swords have WAY more stopping power.

And besides...Scythes are gardening tools. Im pretty sure it's only the Grim Reaper that made it a mainstream weapon. I really can't see them turning them into their own class.

But if they did....they probably will have much less range than a sword. Seeing as the first swords shown in the game are WTF large, i dont think there's much room for anymore crowd control melee weapons.

On that note, here's to hoping they remove Whips. I really didn't care for them. They're an IMPOSSIBLY cool weapon...I mean, a Lightsaber is one of the most dangerous fictional weapons ive ever seen (seeing as a single slip-up wielding it would most definitely result in loss of a limb or a fatal wound), but a photon whip? Phuh-leaseeee. You'd turn yourself into pepperoni the moment you started practicing with it...let alone the first time someone messed you up with it.

That and they didn't feel very powerful at all. With the types of weapons seen in the PSU universe, i just dont see a Whip user defeating ANY other weapon in the game, including a handgun, card or even a saber. The photon arts were weak as well...there just felt like i had no stopping power. I just flailed it around and watched (small) numbers pop off everything in the room.

Partisans however i would love to see return. Just give them cooler animations -- the coolest animation i remember those things having were the hunewearl's walking animation with them.

It would be wonderful if every weapon in the game wasn't a damn AoE fest like in PSU. That was half the reason the Hunters were so OP in the first place. Scythes should cut down about 3 enemies at a time tops, with an emphasis on speed.

Tetsaru
Jul 6, 2011, 06:01 PM
Lolwut? This is nonsense. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UHomsfpU0o[/U) is how scythes should be - fast, accurate, very powerful, but with an emphasis on controlling space and movement. Remember that PSO2 is not going to have the very basic attack system of PSO, nor the photon art spam of PSU.

Ahh, Zasalamel, eh? He was one of my favorite characters to play as in Soul Calibur.

I'm just thinking of ways to make each weapon different in comparison to the others without making them overpowered. Back when I was playing PSU, everyone and their grandma used mostly axes, slicers, and spears simply because they had superior PA's. I'm not sure how it is now, but even though the game was easy enough to use whatever you wanted rather effectively, most people were using the stuff that could kill within a few hits.

When I said scythes should be slow and powerful, I was thinking more along the lines of FF11's Dark Knights. Scythes were the strongest weapons in the game, but also the slowest, and they were fairly innaccurate - like PSU's axes. However, FF11 ALSO had axes - both one-handed and two-handed. Two-handed axes weren't as strong as scythes, but they were a bit faster. One-handed axes were essentially a slower, stronger form of one-handed swords, and were usually dual-wielded, from what I remember. Then again, I don't think any of FF11's weapons could hit multiple enemies with their normal attacks like how some of PSO's and PSU's could, unless you were using some sort of AoE move.

If PSO2 had scythes and they were strong, fast, AND accurate, then they'd need some sort of negative effect to balance them out compared to other weapons (like losing HP every time you attack, or a penalty to your other stats), or they'd have to be one of those really rare or endgame-level-only categories that you'd have to work towards to obtain. I like the idea of being able to push or pull enemies around like how Zasalamel's moves were set up, but to me, that would make scythes more of a medium-range utility weapon rather than something you'd be using to rack up tons of damage. Either way sounds fine with me, but there needs to be some balance in comparison to other weapon types, otherwise we'll have everyone spamming the next Anga Jabroga, Chikki, or Dus Majarra again, and that just leads to unchallenging and boring gameplay.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 6, 2011, 06:11 PM
I just noticed this thread and I will say that, I too, would love to see scythes in Phantasy Star Online 2.
Like Soul's weapon form in Soul Eater.

RemiusTA
Jul 6, 2011, 08:14 PM
Thats the thing though. Scyches almost ALWAYS tend to be "soul eater" type weapons (i.e. Grim Reaper allusions).

Building a whole weapon class on scythes....i mean, it'd look awesome, but....what are you going to do with it? I'd rather something they can get some more realistic animations out of. I doubt there are any fighting styles based on using Grim Reaper-styled Scythes.

•Col•
Jul 6, 2011, 10:54 PM
Just bring partisans back (keep spears as well) and slap on a scythe model onto a bunch of them.

SephirothXer0
Jul 7, 2011, 09:19 AM
I'm fine with Scythes keeping the Axe movement.

dooby613
Jul 7, 2011, 10:57 AM
I'd like to see a sword that works more similar to in pso because in psu the enemies were generally more spread apart and hitting about 5 enemies at a time wasn't so easy to do. I am generally pretty happy with all the hunter weapons from all the PSO/PSU games even the whip.

RemiusTA
Jul 7, 2011, 11:57 AM
I hated the Axes in PSU. They didn't feel very powerful at all. They were very short and honestly looked no heavier than most of the swords you swing around.

Hopefully they'll change them up this time. I'd like more of a huge battle axe type weapon instead, just to feel like a powerful anime monster pretty boy.

Because they are never cool enough to just give the pretty boy a giant axe. It's always some kind of long katana :/

Zyrusticae
Jul 7, 2011, 04:44 PM
[snipped for length]
If PSO2 had scythes and they were strong, fast, AND accurate, then they'd need some sort of negative effect to balance them out compared to other weapons (like losing HP every time you attack, or a penalty to your other stats), or they'd have to be one of those really rare or endgame-level-only categories that you'd have to work towards to obtain. I like the idea of being able to push or pull enemies around like how Zasalamel's moves were set up, but to me, that would make scythes more of a medium-range utility weapon rather than something you'd be using to rack up tons of damage. Either way sounds fine with me, but there needs to be some balance in comparison to other weapon types, otherwise we'll have everyone spamming the next Anga Jabroga, Chikki, or Dus Majarra again, and that just leads to unchallenging and boring gameplay.
Well, obviously, this just goes without saying.

The problem in PSU was more the completely unbalanced PAs. It had very little to do with the base weapons themselves; they just had ridiculously overpowered attacks that did waaaaay better at certain tasks than anything else in the game. Again, as PSO2 is NOT using the PA system from PSU, this is considerably less of an issue.

The way I see it, it'd be like this:

Sabers - Highest single-target DPS with close to the highest accuracy in the game when used two-handed; can be dual-wielded for greater attack speed but less power and accuracy.
Daggers - High crit rate, moderate accuracy, high attack speed, but lower damage and range than the saber. Used over the saber for the high mobility in its attack style.
Claws - Highest attack power and lowest accuracy of all the one-handed weapons. Best for big, hard targets.
Knuckles - Shortest range weapons in the game. Makes up for it with heavy control ability; emphasizes combos and attack chains that leave targets unable to react. Highest accuracy, other stats moderate.

Swords - Most AoE attacks of all the melee weapons; high stopping power, but lower accuracy and low attack speed (although how true this is is questionable, considering how ungodly fast the attack speed was in the trailer). Used for clearing rooms quickly.
Axes - Highest attack damage, period. Even less accurate than the swords, lower range, even slower attack speed. Used almost purely because they are cool. Also, near-guaranteed hit stun on anything but the biggest, baddest monsters.
Spears/partisans - Highest melee range. Moderate stats. Used against critters you have to keep your distance from; middle ground between melee and ranged combat. Good tank weapon due to heavy AoE.
Scythes - Control weapon. Lots of knock-back/knock-to/knock-up attacks; less attack power, but high accuracy, range, and speed. Not terribly useful for fighting bosses. Great for keeping things in one place for rangers and forces to shoot at.

And of course,
Slicers - The exclusive ranged weapon for hunters. Not really very useful for anything other than enemies that require ranged attacks to be hit (like whatever PSO2's equivalent of De Rol Le is).

And there we go. We have a nice, even number of one-handers and two-handers, all covering their own, distinct niches. And they're all pretty darn stylish, to boot. Well, okay, knuckles can never really be stylish... unless they miniaturize them considerably. Or, better yet, make them function like line shields, such that you wear "gloves" that allow you to perform myriad hand-to-hand combat techniques with much greater stopping power than normal. That would be nice.

I don't consider "whips" real weapons. Seriously, wtf. Whips? Go away, you silly billies! What kind of hunter uses whips, anyways? :-?

NoiseHERO
Jul 7, 2011, 04:52 PM
^ Ah man, I was almost feeling you till you had to go and shit on whips and slicers...

THERES ALWAYS ROOM FOR SCYTHES TO GET THEIR OWN WEAPON THOUGH, HUH?

Zyrusticae
Jul 7, 2011, 05:04 PM
Okay, fine, to be fair, slicers can have high knockback/hit stun/whatever and still not step on the toes of the rangers and forces. I just can't be enamored for a ranged weapon for a class whose whole point is to get into the enemy's face and smack them around.

But I will never, ever have any sympathy for the whip-users. They're just so silly! And dangerous. How much time do they have to spend just practicing not cutting themselves up? Even sabers alone are dangerous enough with all the burning and lasers and stuff!

Darki
Jul 7, 2011, 09:45 PM
I'm totally up for scythes if they're well done. Sadly, I don't think SEGA will ever make a weapon like that correctly, seeing that the "scythe" repeatedly used in PSO and PSU is the Soul Eater, and sorry for any Soul Eater lover, that looks as similar as a scythe as a cow does.

A scythe is THIS:

http://fondosdibujosanimados.com.es/images/wallpapers/scythe-212408.jpeg

Scythe should be a weapon used to trample all over the place cutting foes' legs and making them go down, then behead them when they're licking your shoes. They're not grabbed like a sword or an axe, they have their grips for that.

But well, I doubt they'll make so specific weapons as those. I'm expecting the Soul eater back and used as a sword, or if we're a bit lucky as a partisan, but a weapon class for scythes... lol this is SEGA we're talking about.

NoiseHERO
Jul 7, 2011, 10:37 PM
In anime land scythes have many shapes and forms, you're better off avoiding the technicalities...

I'm surprised they haven't made a ninja hand scythe(or I guess google calls it a kusarigama) and put it under the dagger categorey or something.

Darki
Jul 7, 2011, 11:03 PM
^That's precisely why I don't think they're going to make a whole weapon type for scythes.

I would totally use them if they did and added them properly, but I've never liked Soul Eater family of weapons, not in PSO and even less in PSU (at least in PSO they were partisans, suited them a bit better than swords).

That's another reason for me not liking katana-style swords either in PSU: because PSU sword animation is made after some sort of 3-ton weapon that you gotta lift like if you were trying to take up a truck and the swing movement looks like if you were gonna fly away with the momentum of the sword (at least, female animation). Katanas are light and insanely fast, so to see how someone fights with a katana like it was a tree, I prefer to pick a sword that actually looks heavy. I understand that they gotta make up stuff like this because they can't add a weapon type for every real weapon, but I just prefer to avoid those because it doesn't feel right when you swing around a scythe like if it was a lance or a sword.

Now, on the main topic, would love to see whips back from PSU, I really liked them, specially if they keep them as some sort of "melee-weapon-for-Forces". I would also love if they added weapon-shields like in PS0 and PSPo2, and I have high hopes that they will as it seems this time blocking is manual and they were there in PS0.

I'd say swords and twin claws but I assume they will be in as they have been in in all games till now, at least single version of the later (but I'd like twins too). I liked cards in PSU, so that maybe too.

As new weapon types... Maces? Staves? (not magical ones, but "whack-em-up" ones, back to the already used example of Soul Calibur, sort of Kilik's weapon)... I'd drop my pants if they actually added twin whips, when they said they'd add whips, I'd almost cried they didn't make the twin version, in PSU. If they added those, I'd pay the game just because of that. xD

NoiseHERO
Jul 7, 2011, 11:07 PM
Yeah I'm also on the scythes don't really need their own weapon categorey side...

It'd make more sense to just put unique weapons under one type. Then just give them their own attack animation with the same hit timing.

edit: Well, not ONE type. But the closest type that the specific weapon's appearance would fit under...

Example: Katana going under Saber

Darki
Jul 7, 2011, 11:12 PM
^that would actually make sense, but well, we're talking about SEGAC. I'd get my hopes a bit up if you told me they fired ST, lol.

Zyrusticae
Jul 8, 2011, 12:17 PM
Y'know, I just can't imagine light-based blunt weapons looking anything other than purely ridiculous.

I'd rather not see them. I mean, come on - a laser hammer? Laser batons were funny in Futurama, but they were for humor!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hopeKU_Khs

Darki
Jul 8, 2011, 04:03 PM
Well, I never talked about light-based blunt weapons, the truth is that I didn't look at it from your point of view but it's true that it would be a bit weird. Problem is that with that you'd also mean knuckles, and they're very used weapons, I'd say.

At least if you take the example from PSU, most blunt weapons are light-based but that doesn't mean that they're just rods of light, for example if you pick hammer-shaped axes, many of them have the photon edge as some sort of pointing pick, or the photon part is just "the reactor".

I mean, maybe a mace made completely of a laser edge would look ridiculous, but what about a mace covered with photon spikes?

RemiusTA
Jul 8, 2011, 04:33 PM
the "blunt" psu weapons all had photon on them. I still think knuckles were cool, though.

But in terms of real blunt weapons...they're just as bad, if not sometimes much worse, than bladed weapons.

People have had knives plunged into their skull and still have been able to get up and call the hospital for themselves. Someone does the same thing with a hammer, and your ass is dead.

This is why i like the idea of a true "axe" form weapon, not like the ones in PSU. In PSU they were just like a bladed power weapon, but IRL their function is more about raw crushing force than cutting. The edges were probably just there for the armor. (But if someone hits you in the face with a battle axe and it doesnt pierce your armor, you still have a pretty huge chance of being killed.)

If swords are to stay the Crowd Control weapons, then axes would definitely be the 1v1 armor piercing weapons.

Benj38
Jul 9, 2011, 06:40 AM
Same weapons as in PSO, graphically rehauled (for nostalgic ones), plus tons of new ones of course.

The only thing I hope is that they won't take PSU as a reference to work on PSO2. I really disliked PSU and still playing older PSO

Anon_Fire
Jul 9, 2011, 02:42 PM
Same weapons as in PSO, graphically rehauled (for nostalgic ones), plus tons of new ones of course.

The only thing I hope is that they won't take PSU as a reference to work on PSO2. I really disliked PSU and still playing older PSO

No, just no

RemiusTA
Jul 9, 2011, 03:17 PM
I just hope they dont spam the fuck out of PSU's photon bloom effect. It ruined alot of the more interesting weapon AND enemy designs.

Zyrusticae
Jul 9, 2011, 03:22 PM
I, on the other hand, absolutely love light bloom.

Especially on laser swords.

Also, I like my laser weapons to be mostly laser and a lot less physical. Hence, the original saber and the GRM Creasword are two of my most favorite weapons ever made.

Of course, this means that what I've seen of the game so far has made me extremely sad because the swords, for some UNGODLY REASON, are a LOT more physical than they are laser-based. I don't understand wtf this is the case, but I just hope they still have mostly-laser weapons in there somewhere.

BIG OLAF
Jul 9, 2011, 03:24 PM
When you guys say "bloom effect", what do you mean? The soft glow that emanates off of the weapon? I'm not that learned in that kind of terminology.

Hrith
Jul 9, 2011, 03:37 PM
I am a huge fan of shotguns (PSO and PSU versions alike), slicers (PSO version), rifles (PSO and PSU versions alike), lasers (PSU version) and swords (PSO and PSU versions alike).

RemiusTA
Jul 9, 2011, 09:05 PM
When you guys say "bloom effect", what do you mean? The soft glow that emanates off of the weapon? I'm not that learned in that kind of terminology.

Yeah. It looked very neat at first, but on the more detailed weapons it completely eats up everything close to it and makes it look terrible.

And more importantly, it didn't allow them to get very creative with the photon on the blades, making each weapon essentially just look like a clone of the others because they'll always be the same color and same glow. In PSU, the only real unique portion of a weapon seemed to be in its hilt.

Benj38
Jul 10, 2011, 12:36 PM
No, just no

Im just giving my opinion, don't feel obliged to comment it, as constructive as it might come out.

yoshiblue
Jul 10, 2011, 02:32 PM
If anything, I want a Gunblade that acts like Zero's(Megaman Zero) Multifuntion Pistol Blade of extending spear sheild boomerange thing. Well minus all the the unneeded stuff of course.

NoiseHERO
Jul 10, 2011, 07:18 PM
I kind of agree...

I like neon glows more than anything, But once you break out a lightning weapon it just look like a giant clump of a blurry yellow cloud that annoyed your eyes.

Kimil Adrayne
Jul 11, 2011, 09:32 AM
What i want is more dual wielding options:

1) Any kind of weapon combination forsingle handed weaps. Sickle in one hand and hatchet in the other for example (you know, if they were weapon types). Why do guns have to be a secondary weapon supporting what's in the right hand? Why can't I use a mech gun and a pistol at the same time? Or a wand and saber?

2) removal of "twin" weapons. If you want to use two daggers at once, equip one in each hand. This way you could mix weapons; A fire Halp Serafi in one hand And an ice Deva Zashi in the other was something I alwYs wanted to do.

3) special and basic attacks that combine both single handed weapons being used.

Dunno if it's already been said, I've been out of Canada for a month without Internet access so haven't kept up. Sorry if it's already been stated.

RemiusTA
Jul 11, 2011, 02:32 PM
What i really want is for the photon on the weapons to actually emit light.

so in a dark room, glowing stuff on your body actually glows. That'd be super neat.

Porkspect
Jul 11, 2011, 10:12 PM
Am I the only one who finds gunblades to be obtrusively retarded?

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 11, 2011, 10:18 PM
Am I the only one who finds gunblades to be obtrusively retarded?
I was initially aggravated by Gunblades at the beginning of PSZ, but that mainly stemmed from the fact that they replaced Shots... I think the Gunblade is a cool idea and I'd like to see them breath new life into it (so to speak) for PSO2. I think it could really be a neat weapon with multiple attack options.

Tetsaru
Jul 12, 2011, 05:56 AM
Am I the only one who finds gunblades to be obtrusively retarded?

Eh, I've always thought them to be more of a Final Fantasy thing, but I guess it depends on how they're implemented. I think they'd be perfect for a Hunter/Ranger hybrid class, like PSU's Fighgunner.

Demon-
Jul 12, 2011, 09:21 AM
What i want is more dual wielding options:

1) Any kind of weapon combination forsingle handed weaps. Sickle in one hand and hatchet in the other for example (you know, if they were weapon types). Why do guns have to be a secondary weapon supporting what's in the right hand? Why can't I use a mech gun and a pistol at the same time? Or a wand and saber?

2) removal of "twin" weapons. If you want to use two daggers at once, equip one in each hand. This way you could mix weapons; A fire Halp Serafi in one hand And an ice Deva Zashi in the other was something I alwYs wanted to do.

3) special and basic attacks that combine both single handed weapons being used.

Dunno if it's already been said, I've been out of Canada for a month without Internet access so haven't kept up. Sorry if it's already been stated.Yeah that's what I thought they were going to do with PSU. There's probably some balancing that would need to take place but I don't see why not. It would be neat to have a little more freedom on your dual weapon equips. Equipping weapons like Sange and Yasha together gives certain boosts as well. No more having to combine them when all you need to do is equip them.

RemiusTA
Jul 12, 2011, 11:01 AM
Am I the only one who finds gunblades to be obtrusively retarded?


Yeah. They are.


IMO only time Gunblades were ever cool is on Final Fantasy 8, and that's because only 2 characters used them. But all in all, it still functioned like a regular sword with added cutting power. (It was Supposed to be that the explosion vibrates the blade, adding to the cutting power.) They're the kind of weapon that's only cool if it's like one or two of them in the whole game.

Perhaps if they were actual gunblades (you know, like Cervantes from Soul Calibur), then they would be more interesting. Or, if they were blades with unique functions that are used with the gunshot. Like Ragna the Bloodedge's sword, seems to use the gunpowder shot to help the blade extend / use it for an attack. Or, of course, Squall, who uses the explosion to strengthen the cutting power of his blade.

But in FF8, Squall and Seifer were really the only people who used them. They looked pretty heavy.

BIG OLAF
Jul 12, 2011, 11:20 AM
I hope they keep single-handed weapons, but allow them interchangeability. Put a slicer in one hand, and a dagger in the other. Or, two different types of pistols, one for power and one for accuracy. That would be nice.

yoshiblue
Jul 12, 2011, 12:15 PM
Well in PSZ it was ok because only Kai and yourself used one.

Pointless: Squall can keep his opponents in place with the explosions too.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 12, 2011, 08:08 PM
Ring blades would be cool and also funny ta use. Like that woman from Soul Calibur called Tira or something.

Genoa
Jul 13, 2011, 03:39 AM
I like the crazy diverse weapon selection compiled from PSO, PSU, and PSZ combined... but I think they lack Technic weapons. I mean sure, the weapon isn't really what makes a force, it's the techniques... but I think it would be interesting if weapons played a bigger role for Forces.

Of course, I don't have much to go by due to the lack of information on the mechanics of how combat will operate... I'm simply going off to expect from the trailer, how PSO operated, and the elements of PSU/PSZ I see implemented.


--= Battle Staff
Form of Attack: High-combo battle rod somewhat similar to how Doublesabers operate (but for force users).

MST/TP Increase: Medium
Attack DMG based on weapon alone: High
(Photon Art enabled)

--= Rod
Form of attack: None, you actually create a small shield that halves damage received by splitting the damage to 50% HP and 50% TP consumption. (i.e., You activate shield and incoming target attack was to inflict 300 damage on you, your HP would receive 150 dmg and you would also consume 150 TP) If there is not enough TP to cover 50% of incoming damage, the 50/50 dmg ratio balances out to the appropriate remaining TP usage. (i.e, you only have 30 TP left and target was to inflict 100 dmg, you would consume your remaining 30 TP and receive 70 dmg towards your HP.
Shield cannot be active for more than 3 full seconds and has a 5 second cooldown after usage.

MST/TP increase: Very High

--= Wand
Form of attack: Very basic with various special abilities dependent on the weapon itself

MST/TP increase: High
Evasion increase: High
Attack DMG based on weapon alone: Low

--= Halo : (can come in various forms, Circlets, Crowns, Tiaras, etc..)
Form of Attack: User focuses telekinetic energy towards a single target. Damage is low but absorbs TP when successfully landed on a target. (Animations can be similar to Unarmed combat that launch small energy waves swiftly at a target with medium range)

MST/TP increase: Medium
Attack DMG based on weapon alone: Medium
Additional Bonus in Elemental Defenses

When you use a Halo, Battle Staff, or Rod, all damage with Techniques are increased by a certain percentage based on the weapon's rarity.
This means Forces still have the versatility to use other different weapons as well, but encourages the use of Force-specific weapons for tech damage.

Halo's are reltively weak on tech damage but is a good fix to help boost TP with it's medium-bodied ranged attack skills. (Still higher tech damage if using any Hunter/Ranger weapons)
Also increases your Elemental Defenses, small perk.

Battle Staff is a good form of Melee damage while still allowing forces to utilize techniques effectively without having to switch constently when melee and techniques are both desired for specific situations.

Rod is the ultimate technique booster and best defense a force could have. Despite no form of attack other than the use of techniques, you can create a shield to protect you, which in certain fights can be to your best advantage (i.e., a powerful foe is charging an attack at you, or a large AoE you can't avoid) With it having a short-lived time and a semi-decent cooldown, it can't really be abused and eventually exhausts your TP (especially seeing you're only form of attack while it's equiped is Techniques that also consume your TP) The Rod can expend your TP very quickly. (Which makes the Halo come in handy)

Wand is a good choice for great tech damage and high evasion against physical based mobs (Helps mostly against large packs of mobs with many basic-attacks coming at you). The weapon itself has a basic attack animation, not very useful but their special attacks can have various inflictions dependent on the weapon (i.e., shock, freeze, root, confusion, etc...)

yoshiblue
Jul 13, 2011, 03:57 AM
-How about some tomes/books. Maybe have the pages glow when used. Or maybe a sub feature that launches the pages at your foes.

-Rings! Magic rings! They could augment powers or have a weaker version of a spell.

Sorry I could give a in depth version lol.

Edit:

--: Tomes

Form of Attack: Launchs pages and enhances spells/technique while casted with the other hand. Can Be a fast cast to a slow cast depending on tome.

MST/TP Increase: High
Evasion Increase: Low
Attack DMG based on weapon alone: Medium

--: Ring

Form of Attack: None, it simply there to increase the effectiveness of a spell/technique. For those who wish to have a hand cast animation.

MST/TP Increase: Varies
Evasion Increase: High

--: Gloves

Form of Attack: A Forces way to melee. Uses tech to dish out damage and add DEF to the player. Does not enhance spells/technique.

MST/TP Increase: Medium
Evasion Increase: High
Attack DMG based on weapon alone: Medium to High

Maybe broken but I like it. Love your format Special K

Darki
Jul 13, 2011, 04:07 AM
I would just love if they made magic weapons not melee, somehow.

Genoa
Jul 13, 2011, 04:13 AM
Mental Strength-based weapons? I could see that.
However since the different variety of force types would mean the usefulness of Mental-Strength-based weapons could become useless for come force types.

The idea of having Force weapons all based on Attack rather than MST is because Force weapons can both benefit uses who lean more on techniques alone to be efficient or a decent balance of both. Just having a Force based weapon equipped benefits your Technique usage, so MST-Primary forces automatically make good use of Force Weapons. Where the more physical-based Forces can exercise the attack animations/specials of Force weapons while getting a decent bonus in Technique increase.

I suppose specific situations would call for Hybrid forces to rely simply on Technique usage and could make good use of fully MST-based reliant weapon.... but very situational.

Still could be a good idea I suppose.

Darki
Jul 13, 2011, 04:20 AM
^The solution for that could be just to make ALL weapons to boost ALL offensive stats to a certain degree, and that's all.

melee weapons by default would add very low mental strenght, average accuracy and high attack power, but by thys system there could be exceptions, like a special weapon designed for alternative purposes (imagine a sword that would grant more mental strenght than attack power, but would benefit the user with sword combos).

Also, they could make certain weapons "class-exception", like in PSU where bows, whips and cards were supposedly "mage" weapons, but taken to the extreme. They could make certain weapon classes to be specific for the "wrong job".

That way, there could be still some weapons that FOs could use to melee, but they could leave "specific" magic weapons as that: magic weapons. Honestly I don't understand why magic weapons should melee.

Genoa
Jul 13, 2011, 04:25 AM
Alright, I'll agree there.

It was just a shame in PSO to see most Forces only using Hunter/Ranger weapons 99% of the time (regardless of Force-type usually).
There wasn't enough INCREASE for Techniques from weapon selection. Sure you could get weapons that boosted MST, but it didn't scale very well unless you were only going to spam techniques.
And if you didn't have access to the specific SPECIAL WEAPONS that had percentage increases in certain skills... it was basically useless to use Force-specific weapons when you could just run around with Mechs or Melee weapons and spam techs in-between.

SephirothXer0
Jul 13, 2011, 07:25 AM
I'd like to see more one-off weapons. Not every different type of weapon needs its own class, like the way we have one scythe as a sword class and the other as an axe. I think it adds more variety and makes those weapons extra special. Like someone earlier mentioned, one or two gunblades in the game makes them cool, but having an entire class of them is pretty lame.

What I think would be neat are weapons that can grab, grapple and throw enemies. Like make it part of the claws' move set or PAs, or make it a special attack of the whips. It would be nice to be able to help a team mate by throwing a monster off of him. But the throw would have to do little to no damage so that teams don't just go tossing monsters around all day

RemiusTA
Jul 13, 2011, 05:17 PM
I think force weapons should just boost specific sections of a forces good points.

For example, canes increase basic, Wands increase intermediate, Rods increase advanced. Or something like that, i dont know.

And the grab wouldn't have to do no damage, Xer0, it can just be an attack that takes PP (which automatically means it cannot be spammed.)

Tetsaru
Jul 13, 2011, 07:32 PM
Random ideas for normal attacks with Force weapons:

Wands are based off of the attacker's TP stat instead of ATP. Bows (or another similar weapon, perhaps cards) could also work this way, in comparison to rifles.

Canes stay based on ATP. They'd still be weaker than sabers, but could also give a bonus to your TP to improve your spellcasting.

Rods could combine both stats somehow, like (ATP + TP) / 2, or use whichever stat is higher for damage calculation, or raise one and lower the other, or raise both and penalize other stats, etc.

Genoa
Jul 14, 2011, 03:29 AM
I'm liking the various ideas here.
Force is quite a touchy class to tinker with since each specific force is exceptionally different to the other.
Yes, Hunters and Rangers are also pretty diverse compared to their own within their class but Force was much more different in PSO.

Specific technique perks and vastly different stat growths/caps.

Yes, again, rangers and hunters are still very diverse but Casts are also among Humans/Newmans in their classes, so obviously the stats have to be very different since there is no Technique support (traps are a crazy cool alternative)

But the actual Force weapons that were made for forces alone weren't very diverse, with the exception of extremely rare Special weapons or some of the very common special weapons. (i.e., Psycho Wand and Club of Laconium)

As a force you either spammed your techs with a tech-boosting item (because you wouldn't dare use it in combat effectively) or you had some form of Melee/Ranged weapon out using your support techniques (Shifta/Jellen/Zalure) to your advantage.
Even FOnewearl could rock a Viviene and a pair of Charge Vulcs with support skills.

I do very much enjoy Force having the ability to use Hunter/Ranger weapons to a degree... but I think there was a lack of usefulness for MOST Force-specific weapons. And I'd like to see improvement on them in PSO2.

yoshiblue
Jul 14, 2011, 03:34 AM
Well an idea could be to change the bow or crossbow from a ranger's weapon to a forces weapon by using MST or TP instead of ATP.

Genoa
Jul 14, 2011, 03:47 AM
I suppose they're could be a larger Force selection of weapons that are simply MST-based for damage. This would give the MST-focused Force types a variety in weapon usage and technique superiority rather than just heavily relying on Tech spam.

Hybrid forces would still have access to better ATP Dependent Melee/Ranged weapons along with a good selection of Tech-boosting Force weapons when needed.

I always disliked having to have a wand, cane, or rod on JUST so I could not actually use it and spam away my Techniques.

Wayu
Jul 14, 2011, 04:14 AM
Well an idea could be to change the bow or crossbow from a ranger's weapon to a forces weapon by using MST or TP instead of ATP.

That's what the bow does in PSP2 and PSP2i. It uses ATA and TP. Not the crossbow, though.

-Wayu

yoshiblue
Jul 14, 2011, 04:19 AM
Sadly, I only got to play the Demo of PSP2. Even then I never used a bow. How odd. Still waiting/hoping for an american release of PSP2i. That way I hit two birds with one stone.

Hotobu
Jul 15, 2011, 07:18 AM
I just hope they really make people and classes stand out in the future. I like hack-n-slash gameplay to an extent, but in past PS games the majority of the combat was braindead (... but... oddly addictive). Of course there were many nuances of combat you could employ to make you a "good player," but these things ultimately go unnoticed, and for the most part don't matter a whole lot. I liked what they tried to do with making people in PSU more specialized, but I'd like to see them take it a bit further and focus on teamwork. For instance:

Hunters should get damage bonuses for doing consecutive hits without taking damage, but these successive hits shouldn't be easy to rack up without the hunter showing some skill and having some teamwork.... enter Rangers and Forces

Rangers' ability to cause status effects needs to be better. Like... a LOT better. I like the bullet types and the status effects per each type, but along with bullet types it'd be nice to be able to add one additional effect per bullet. For instance a fire bullet can cause burn, but perhaps I can add a "slow" status effect. Now I've got a chance to burn someone and make them slow. Slowing down an enemy helps the hunter get multiple hits. Or lets say I add paralyze to ice bullets. Paralyze may make my attack go way down, but having a chance to freeze, AND paralyze an enemy may be worth it to allow my hunters to rack up massive damage. Mixing and matching bullet types with status effects would be a cool perk to rangers, and the party would be aware of their influence.

Non forces should also be able to cast "MST UP" spells. Doing this as a courtesy to forces may make some of the lazy forces get off their asses and cast support spells.

Perhaps forces that stand in close proximity to other players will see them both get boosts. For instance a Hunter standing close to a force may move and attack just a little bit faster, and the force gets to cast spells slightly faster. A force standing next to a ranger will have their DFP and MST go up, and the Ranger's status effect rate increase. And perhaps different forces have larger "areas of influence."

This will encourage teamwork and we may even see people moving in formation for these bonuses.

Ultimately my problem with all of the PS games thus far is that more often than not it was just a bunch of individuals on the same side. It wasn't often that I got a sense of teamwork unless it was forced (i.e. some "runs" in PSU).

Alisha
Jul 15, 2011, 08:00 PM
i would like to see more weapons with damage mods that make sense. too many weapons stupidly only weigh atp. its takes technique/mst to weild a katana more so than strength. maybe a atp+mst mod

Hotobu
Jul 16, 2011, 09:44 AM
i would like to see more weapons with damage mods that make sense. too many weapons stupidly only weigh atp. its takes technique/mst to weild a katana more so than strength. maybe a atp+mst mod


First of all MST = technique? Spell casters should have access to melee weapons before Hunters, and Cast types will have a problem ever getting to put them on?

RemiusTA
Jul 16, 2011, 12:46 PM
Word of advice: nobody will ever take your opinion seriously if you start off by calling them idiots.


inb4argument

SephirothXer0
Jul 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
i would like to see more weapons with damage mods that make sense. too many weapons stupidly only weigh atp. its takes technique/mst to weild a katana more so than strength. maybe a atp+mst mod

Katanas are not magical swords. They're hunks of metal like any other.

•Col•
Jul 16, 2011, 02:50 PM
Just have a line of rare weapons like the Elysion (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=195) was in PSO.

MeleeForce, go!

Taijutsu-Joshua
Jul 16, 2011, 03:09 PM
I've always been the sword type, so I'd like the basic, the dual swords, and the double edged ones. The automatic handguns were gr8 too!


Just have a line of rare weapons like the Elysion (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=195) was in PSO.

MeleeForce, go!

I just looked at that Elysion (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=195) pic, having never played PSO.
Blew my mind! Forget what I said, I want those!!

Taijutsu-Joshua
Jul 16, 2011, 03:14 PM
Sadly, I only got to play the Demo of PSP2. Even then I never used a bow. How odd. Still waiting/hoping for an american release of PSP2i. That way I hit two birds with one stone.

As much as I want that, I doubt it's coming. But then again, I haven't touched my PSP2 since the announcement so I would forget about it till i played psp2i

Alisha
Jul 17, 2011, 09:58 AM
my how this place has fallen since 2001.... once upon a time someone could suggest something without getting their heads ripped off.

for the record i got the idea from FF12 where mag is a factor in the damage you do with katana's


For this class of weapon, the damage output is determined by your character's strength and magick power, the Katana's attack rating, and the enemy's defense.

seriously your talking about a weapon that could slice someone in half vertically and be handled by a female that isnt roided out. so i think atp isnt the only stat that should be worth a damn for that weapon type. heh if i remember correctly the oritiagito in pso actually added to your mst and atp...

it took for ever to have ata be a factor in gun damage i just want to see some more varied damage mods.


Katanas are not magical swords. They're hunks of metal like any other.
hunks of metal that cut through flesh like a hot knife cuts through butter.

Niloklives
Jul 17, 2011, 10:36 AM
hunks of metal that cut through flesh like a hot knife cuts through butter.

Only where fiction dictates they do. You're basing a weapon type on cartoons. Where in phantasy star have katanas been OHK weapons? Go read a book sometime. A katana can do some serious damage, sure, but so can a machete. Any sword can. NO REAL sword is sharp enough to be able to just sever a limb with its own weight or anything close to it. that said, you're applying fiction from one world to fiction from another and saying things don't match up. Think about that for a moment and you should be able to see the flaw in your logic.

Hotobu
Jul 17, 2011, 12:25 PM
Only where fiction dictates they do. You're basing a weapon type on cartoons. Where in phantasy star have katanas been OHK weapons? Go read a book sometime. A katana can do some serious damage, sure, but so can a machete. Any sword can. NO REAL sword is sharp enough to be able to just sever a limb with its own weight or anything close to it. that said, you're applying fiction from one world to fiction from another and saying things don't match up. Think about that for a moment and you should be able to see the flaw in your logic.

Nuh uh katanas are magical swords FORGED FROM MYSTICAL BLACKSMITH FIRES! Anime is real. If you can't get your sword to cut through people, trees, or the sides of mountains then you aren't channeling your chi hard enough.

Niloklives
Jul 17, 2011, 04:26 PM
Nuh uh katanas are magical swords FORGED FROM MYSTICAL BLACKSMITH FIRES! Anime is real. If you can't get your sword to cut through people, trees, or the sides of mountains then you aren't channeling your chi hard enough.

My mistake then...here I thought my mystical sword of light was the only weapon on this earth that could tear god asunder and rend flesh as though it were tissue paper. I'll seek out the holy blacksmith and have him forge a true katana for it will make my pathetic photon blade seem akin to a letter opener.

Taijutsu-Joshua
Jul 17, 2011, 04:45 PM
My mistake then...here I thought my mystical sword of light was the only weapon on this earth that could tear god asunder and rend flesh as though it were tissue paper. I'll seek out the holy blacksmith and have him forge a true katana for it will make my pathetic photon blade seem akin to a letter opener.

LOL how you guys switched that up.

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 05:38 PM
Only where fiction dictates they do. You're basing a weapon type on cartoons. Where in phantasy star have katanas been OHK weapons? Go read a book sometime. A katana can do some serious damage, sure, but so can a machete. Any sword can. NO REAL sword is sharp enough to be able to just sever a limb with its own weight or anything close to it. that said, you're applying fiction from one world to fiction from another and saying things don't match up. Think about that for a moment and you should be able to see the flaw in your logic.

Bah, if you mean dropping it and seeing what happens; sure. If your in the field and your the person's first few targets, one and your done. Its sharp but the blade wears away fast. Its not like say shogun total war were you can have one guy destroy a whole group of one hundred swordsmen. How about a gladius or a falcata.

Valkyrie Lovrina
Jul 17, 2011, 05:43 PM
just 5 of my favorite weapon types.

Double Sabers (Vivienne (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2191&sortby=name) :heartcookie:)
Mechguns
Shotguns
Long Bows
Claws

Edit: cool debate btw.

Randomness
Jul 17, 2011, 07:14 PM
Only where fiction dictates they do. You're basing a weapon type on cartoons. Where in phantasy star have katanas been OHK weapons? Go read a book sometime. A katana can do some serious damage, sure, but so can a machete. Any sword can. NO REAL sword is sharp enough to be able to just sever a limb with its own weight or anything close to it. that said, you're applying fiction from one world to fiction from another and saying things don't match up. Think about that for a moment and you should be able to see the flaw in your logic.

Machetes are designed to hack. Katanas slash. They're DIFFERENT. Kind of like rapiers and broadswords are different. Or sabers. Or... you get the idea.

And a katana being swung by somebody cleaving off an arm? Not out of the realm of possibility, imo (Bare arm, not armored). But hey, PSO is RPG. So RPG rules apply, where a nuclear bomb only kills you if you don't have enough HP to survive, even at point blank.

Alisha
Jul 17, 2011, 07:15 PM
why are you so threatened by this idea? scared a hunewearl will be better with a katana than your precious humar or hucast?

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 07:20 PM
I think its more along the lines of energy wep vs metal wep. One thing is sure, photo sword will last longer in the long run but a katana will do just as good in its first few battles.

Randomness
Jul 17, 2011, 07:26 PM
I think its more along the lines of energy wep vs metal wep. One thing is sure, photo sword will last longer in the long run but a katana will do just as good in its first few battles.

Actually, I'd almost expect the katana to last longer, barring any shattering of the blade.

The amount of energy required for an energy blade is kind of silly. (Contained one, anyways. A simple cutting laser is a bit easier)

In a real life case, the katana has no limit on how fast it can cut (besides tensile strength of blade), an energy weapon needs time to burn through. A katana could conceivably be superior on bare flesh. (But obviously loses out on metal. Automatic +50% native on all katanas :wacko:?)

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 07:36 PM
If a large version of the saber is needed to do more damage, then I guess you right. A katana however can only be so sharp however. The cutting power on a saber can be so much greater if it had more output of heat or what ever is needed to slice things. I agree though, a katana's cutting power is not a wife's tale. 65% boost vs natives!!!

Reksanden
Jul 17, 2011, 07:43 PM
There was some sort of blade Modern Marvels on the History channel once, and the katanas being demonstrated are no slackers in the cutting department. It cut through rubber as thick and consistant as a man's thigh 5 times with no problems at all.

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 07:54 PM
Ok people, I think Nilo has enough said against the dood. No need for overkill.

I demand swords from european origin!

Niloklives
Jul 17, 2011, 09:06 PM
I'm not saying a katana can't cut, I'm saying this 5x the thickness of a man's thigh is rubbish and they certainly aren't the godlike weapons people make them out to be. I've seen trained swordsmen only make it 6 inches through ballistic gel. that's easily enough kill someone in the right spot yes, but they're not nearly the "5x a man's thigh" some people want to think. regardless, the point is many other metal blades can be just as deadly when used properly. That said, the only real argument you could make is that all melee weapons should do more damage as your skill increases with that weapon type.

Also, the arguments for photon weapons are based on what we know of our own science. the fun of science fiction is it can be whatever they want it to be. for all we know, something like a micronized version of tony stark's arc reactor from the Iron Man movies is in the hilt of every blade. Maybe something 10x more powerful than that is in there. we really can't know and all our arguments about it are fairly pointless if we don't even understand the tech behind the power source. With that in mind, it would make sense that you need a certain amount of technique to control a blade like that, making an even stronger case for weapon proficiency. Or you could cut the whole proficiency thing out, assume everyone knows how to use the weapon to its fullest potential and express all power in ATP...oh wait.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 17, 2011, 09:19 PM
We do see one blade that's not cover with a photon edge, it's the big collapsible fold-out (monster hunter style) sword that Tales wields in the video. I'm happy to see metal edges, I feel it adds a sense of realism to my Phantasy.

NoiseHERO
Jul 17, 2011, 09:54 PM
Or we can have vibrating blades like guyver,

THEN CHOP PEOPLE LIKE BUTTER!

Alisha
Jul 17, 2011, 10:23 PM
lol guyver....that was the first anime i saw not called sailor moon >_> made mortal kombat look somewhat tame.

Dracheseele
Jul 17, 2011, 10:32 PM
It also depends oh how photons work. I've always thought of photons as some sort of "solidified" light.

Katanas have this whole mythos behind them, but european swords were just as deadly. A well made european sword can certainly slice through all sorts of things. Clumsy acting in movies did them no service though. The actual martial arts for them are incredibly complex. Soldiers would actually grip the blade of a longsword in a two handed stance for more leverage in close quarters fights. Look at the sword in the gameplay preview, notice it has what looks to me to be a second grip.

A interesting quirk is that swords got straighter as time went on due to improvements in armor. Chainmail (and certainly plate) was hard to cut through but a thrust could puncture through more easily. Now my history may be rusty but I recall Japanese swords also started to straighten out as well.

In general though, cutting off limbs is extremely difficult. Bone is pretty tough.

Alisha
Jul 17, 2011, 10:43 PM
actually bone isnt that tough until it dies and calcifies

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 10:49 PM
I thought longswords were always used with two hands. Swords did get straighter too due to advancements in warfare. Don't know if they did the whole turtle formation the romans did other then the shield wall. Then they went blunt due to plate armor. The crossbow was banned by the church because it killed knights.

I always thought that it was plasmish with influxes of energy and maybe filters to form the blade.

Edit: They should do what KoToR did and introduce forms/styles/techniques.

Wayu
Jul 17, 2011, 10:52 PM
I was thinking Jedi lightsabers, just at BFS level. ^^;

-Wayu

yoshiblue
Jul 17, 2011, 10:54 PM
Basicly star wars. Kotor tells you how one is made but not how it works. a energy cell, a lenses, a crystal for color, and some crystals that modify the output for different results.

Reksanden
Jul 17, 2011, 11:18 PM
It also depends oh how photons work. I've always thought of photons as some sort of "solidified" light.

Katanas have this whole mythos behind them, but european swords were just as deadly. A well made european sword can certainly slice through all sorts of things. Clumsy acting in movies did them no service though. The actual martial arts for them are incredibly complex. Soldiers would actually grip the blade of a longsword in a two handed stance for more leverage in close quarters fights. Look at the sword in the gameplay preview, notice it has what looks to me to be a second grip.

A interesting quirk is that swords got straighter as time went on due to improvements in armor. Chainmail (and certainly plate) was hard to cut through but a thrust could puncture through more easily. Now my history may be rusty but I recall Japanese swords also started to straighten out as well.

In general though, cutting off limbs is extremely difficult. Bone is pretty tough.

If I remember right, they were called hand-and-a-half swords. Every part of the sword was meant to be deadly.

Dracheseele
Jul 17, 2011, 11:44 PM
The whole terminology has alot of overlap, rather confusing. As for the two-handed deal, they'd switch a hand to grip the blade when in close where the length of the sword would be a hinderance. Its a solution in the same vien as musashi's teachings using two swords of different lengths.

In a gameplay sense i'd love to see various subclasses within weapons though, perhaps to differentiate manufacturers?

Like GRM (or whatever they end up being called, just using as a placeholder) sabers behaving and looking like rapiers, Tenora sabers as traditional swords, and Yohmei sabers as katanas.

polearms could have spears, glaives, and poleaxes.

Wayu
Jul 17, 2011, 11:57 PM
Actually, the sabers behaved the same. It's just the appearance.

But that would be interesting.

-Wayu

NoiseHERO
Jul 18, 2011, 06:40 AM
So basically Photon is just a Sci-fantasy device used to magically make lots of things possible, with minimal explanation behind it.

Which is fine because this is a sci-fi game. But it's also just as lazy as Sonic's chaos emerald concept..

Taijutsu-Joshua
Jul 18, 2011, 01:42 PM
So basically Photon is just a Sci-fantasy device used to magically make lots of things possible, with minimal explanation behind it.

Which is fine because this is a sci-fi game. But it's also just as lazy as Sonic's chaos emerald concept..

"So what IS Photon?"
"...You're using it now, aren't you?"

Zyrusticae
Jul 18, 2011, 02:33 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Photons are the equivalent of Ki/Reiatsu/Chakra or whatever mystical energy source in whatever fictional universe you prefer.

They behave pretty much in the same manner, right down to the discrete levels of power. Hunters channel it through their bodies and weapons, rangers through their guns, and forces convert it into some other kind of energy (heat for fire, 'lack of' heat for ice, electric charge for lightning, and so on) and release it explosively.

However, this applies only to the previous games. I have no idea how it'll function in PSO2 - especially with how weapons appear to be more physical than laser-based this time around.

NoiseHERO
Jul 18, 2011, 02:38 PM
I'd assume the same as all of the previous games, since PSO2 is connected to them.

Maybe they're use it in slightly different ways, But it can't be less complicated than the way they used photon in PSZ.(which wasn't a lot)

Taijutsu-Joshua
Jul 18, 2011, 02:46 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Photons are the equivalent of Ki/Reiatsu/Chakra or whatever mystical energy source in whatever fictional universe you prefer.

They behave pretty much in the same manner, right down to the discrete levels of power. Hunters channel it through their bodies and weapons, rangers through their guns, and forces convert it into some other kind of energy (heat for fire, 'lack of' heat for ice, electric charge for lightning, and so on) and release it explosively.

However, this applies only to the previous games. I have no idea how it'll function in PSO2 - especially with how weapons appear to be more physical than laser-based this time around.

When you put it that way, comparing it to power sources in DBZ/Bleach/Naruto, it's almost as if it wouldn't need explanation. Like assuming it's simply energy we use.

RemiusTA
Jul 18, 2011, 03:03 PM
I'm not saying a katana can't cut, I'm saying this 5x the thickness of a man's thigh is rubbish and they certainly aren't the godlike weapons people make them out to be. I've seen trained swordsmen only make it 6 inches through ballistic gel. that's easily enough kill someone in the right spot yes, but they're not nearly the "5x a man's thigh" some people want to think. regardless, the point is many other metal blades can be just as deadly when used properly. That said, the only real argument you could make is that all melee weapons should do more damage as your skill increases with that weapon type.




I don't deny for a second the ability for a proficient samurai to chop a human being in half in a single slice. Those blades are extremely sharp and actual battle katanas have some weight behind them.Now, it happening during a battle? Maybe if he got a really, really easy and open slice at the guy, but you really don't have to cut someone in half in order to kill them. Hell, you could attack with the blunt end of the katana and easily kill a person with the right strike. You can probably even brute force a sharpened Broadsword through a human too with a well choreographed slash. A stab with a rapier/straightsword or a blow with broadsword kills just as easily.


Energy Swords? Well, if the Phantasy Star weapons are anything like the Lightsabers from Starwars (pretty much instantaneous annihilation of whatever it touches), then they probably have a serious source of energy behind them. I'd believe that any regular human training to use a lightsaber would have to be either a genius or insane, because IMO it's just an impossibly dangerous weapon concept. For this reason, im pretty positive PSO Photon weapons are mostly just "solidified light", or a substance that can be used LIKE a lightsaber but not as powerful. It's implied that it doesn't instantly destroy whatever it touches, but maybe just makes it easier, since you have a range of weapons and reactor types for the job.



Im guessing "Saber" would be general "hot steel", while "Gladius" or "DB's Saber" would be approaching Lightsaber strength.

Wayu
Jul 18, 2011, 03:07 PM
And the Tsumikiri J-Sword? ^^;

Death Star level?

-Wayu

Reksanden
Jul 18, 2011, 03:14 PM
And the Tsumikiri J-Sword? ^^;

Death Star level?

-Wayu

Now THAT'S something I want to see return.


As far as I'm concerned, Photons are the equivalent of Ki/Reiatsu/Chakra or whatever mystical energy source in whatever fictional universe you prefer.

They behave pretty much in the same manner, right down to the discrete levels of power. Hunters channel it through their bodies and weapons, rangers through their guns, and forces convert it into some other kind of energy (heat for fire, 'lack of' heat for ice, electric charge for lightning, and so on) and release it explosively.

However, this applies only to the previous games. I have no idea how it'll function in PSO2 - especially with how weapons appear to be more physical than laser-based this time around.

Also sounds like the Lifestream from FF7. A very powerful, influential force, and solidifies to become the basis of all of the game's abilities- Materia.

Niloklives
Jul 18, 2011, 03:51 PM
I don't deny for a second the ability for a proficient samurai to chop a human being in half in a single slice. Those blades are extremely sharp and actual battle katanas have some weight behind them.Now, it happening during a battle? Maybe if he got a really, really easy and open slice at the guy, but you really don't have to cut someone in half in order to kill them. Hell, you could attack with the blunt end of the katana and easily kill a person with the right strike. You can probably even brute force a sharpened Broadsword through a human too with a well choreographed slash. A stab with a rapier/straightsword or a blow with broadsword kills just as easily.


Energy Swords? Well, if the Phantasy Star weapons are anything like the Lightsabers from Starwars (pretty much instantaneous annihilation of whatever it touches), then they probably have a serious source of energy behind them. I'd believe that any regular human training to use a lightsaber would have to be either a genius or insane, because IMO it's just an impossibly dangerous weapon concept. For this reason, im pretty positive PSO Photon weapons are mostly just "solidified light", or a substance that can be used LIKE a lightsaber but not as powerful. It's implied that it doesn't instantly destroy whatever it touches, but maybe just makes it easier, since you have a range of weapons and reactor types for the job.



Im guessing "Saber" would be general "hot steel", while "Gladius" or "DB's Saber" would be approaching Lightsaber strength.

go back and read what I said. you don't need to cut that deep to kill someone, but people are talking about being able to cut through 30-40" of flesh in a single slash and you're just plain wrong about cutting someone in half.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 18, 2011, 04:05 PM
go back and read what I said. you don't need to cut that deep to kill someone, but people are talking about being able to cut through 30-40" of flesh in a single slash and you're just plain wrong about cutting someone in half.
My waist is 34' so yeah that would cut me in half. That's how Samurai used to measure the power in katanas by cutting criminals in half. Or laying cadavers on top of one another and seeing how deep they could cut through multiple bodies. The unit of measurement then became "one body blade" or "two body blade", legends speak even of 4-5 body blades.
Jeez I'm I the only one that watched Deadliest Warrior on Spike TV? lol

Wayu
Jul 18, 2011, 04:08 PM
go back and read what I said. you don't need to cut that deep to kill someone, but people are talking about being able to cut through 30-40" of flesh in a single slash and you're just plain wrong about cutting someone in half.
It's difficult for the average person but with the proper technique...disturbingly easy. You don't even need that much strength.

-Wayu

NoiseHERO
Jul 18, 2011, 04:11 PM
Katanas can cut/block through bullets

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 18, 2011, 04:20 PM
Now this is quite the interesting topic. As expected of PSOWorld!

HappyPenguin
Jul 18, 2011, 04:48 PM
I wanna see the fast two handed swords

Reksanden
Jul 18, 2011, 05:11 PM
I want to see more weapons like the Demolition Comet

Pirrip
Jul 18, 2011, 05:18 PM
Slash Axe/Switch-axe: the best newer video game weapon in my humble opinion, inb4 Aperature Science handheld portal device.

In all seriousness, I would be very happy to see some kind of mobile suit/tank that you can customize and take with you, even if it means it can be broken and.or dismounted by choice, or even if that can only occur in a single event.

LK1721
Jul 18, 2011, 05:28 PM
I would love to have the twin claws, twin mech guns, and the Asuka-style twin blades back.

RemiusTA
Jul 18, 2011, 07:14 PM
And the Tsumikiri J-Sword? ^^;

Death Star level?

-Wayu

Well...that was made out of metal. I dunno :0



go back and read what I said. you don't need to cut that deep to kill someone, but people are talking about being able to cut through 30-40" of flesh in a single slash and you're just plain wrong about cutting someone in half.

Well, i just said it was definitely POSSIBLE, not practical. I highly doubt you'd ever see someone get sliced in half with a regular sized samurai sword in a match or in battle. The conditions for someone actually being able to do that would have to be controlled. A normal person probably couldn't do it with pure strength, but a user with correct form (SLICING, not swinging) could most definitely do the task. The human body isn't made of concrete.

And FYI, i dont really believe any weapon can be powerful enough to vertically slice a human in half, using human strength. But if the only bone you have to go through is the spinal cord (horizontal at the naval) then i dont see how it's unbelievable. The Rib cage though? Nah, thats another stretch. The problem is that unless you completely blindsided your target and he wasn't moving or wearing any armor, it's just not going to happen. You'd be more likely to slash them. Or maybe cause them to fall apart from the slash itself. But a clean cut takes alot of strength....



A heavier sword types though? Hell yeah, it'll chop your ass in half. If people like Cloud Strife actually existed (and used the blade like him, not like how real people would have used a weapon of that type), then being chopped into pieces wouldn't be rare in the slightest. Most people aren't that strong though.

yoshiblue
Jul 18, 2011, 07:21 PM
Slash Axe/Switch-axe: the best newer video game weapon in my humble opinion, inb4 Aperature Science handheld portal device.

In all seriousness, I would be very happy to see some kind of mobile suit/tank that you can customize and take with you, even if it means it can be broken and.or dismounted by choice, or even if that can only occur in a single event.

They may add mounts and the like to PSO2. Unless your asking for mega MAGs.
MONSTAR HUNTAR!!!

MaggotSai
Jul 18, 2011, 07:35 PM
I want to see something like a spell book to be used as a weapon, like you can only use more advanced spells if you have the spell book equipped or something like that.

keizeh
Jul 18, 2011, 09:02 PM
You guys don't know anything about weapons do you?
Katanas are actually a pretty crappy weapon. I'd say most western weapons are better. Japan had low quality steel, and it was very brittle. European steel was strong and could be folded just as many times as a katana if you want to go there.
You can take almost any western sword vs a katana with people of equal skill. The katana will give out far sooner than the other sword.
tl;dr katanas suck.

Reksanden
Jul 18, 2011, 09:08 PM
I want to see something like a spell book to be used as a weapon, like you can only use more advanced spells if you have the spell book equipped or something like that.

I can see that happening... There are already spellbooks in PSZ, although they're part of the Wand class of weapons.

RemiusTA
Jul 18, 2011, 09:14 PM
You guys don't know anything about weapons do you?
Katanas are actually a pretty crappy weapon. I'd say most western weapons are better. Japan had low quality steel, and it was very brittle. European steel was strong and could be folded just as many times as a katana if you want to go there.
You can take almost any western sword vs a katana with people of equal skill. The katana will give out far sooner than the other sword.
tl;dr katanas suck.



This is exactly why the internet is full of arguments. People who think they're history majors and metallurgists!


Cue Japan fans vs. Opinion Hipster battle in T minus 5 posts....ready your google searches!

Reksanden
Jul 18, 2011, 09:50 PM
You guys don't know anything about weapons do you?
Katanas are actually a pretty crappy weapon. I'd say most western weapons are better. Japan had low quality steel, and it was very brittle. European steel was strong and could be folded just as many times as a katana if you want to go there.
You can take almost any western sword vs a katana with people of equal skill. The katana will give out far sooner than the other sword.
tl;dr katanas suck.

Besides, this is PSO we're talking about. They've got access to the best metals that can possibly be found, and probably have smithing methods ten times better then what we have here now...

I wonder... Should there be more weapons like the Sealed-J Sword?(I mean ones that require pre-requisites before they reach their most powerful forms. They could be a class of rare on their own.... I mean, they'd be different weapons, but they'd all have the fact that they unlock after certain standards are met)

Dragwind
Jul 19, 2011, 12:40 AM
Mags that can be transformed into weapons, or mags that can be attached to weapons.

I'd love that.

Wayu
Jul 19, 2011, 01:27 AM
You guys don't know anything about weapons do you?
Katanas are actually a pretty crappy weapon. I'd say most western weapons are better. Japan had low quality steel, and it was very brittle. European steel was strong and could be folded just as many times as a katana if you want to go there.
You can take almost any western sword vs a katana with people of equal skill. The katana will give out far sooner than the other sword.
tl;dr katanas suck.
^ Lol, this guy has no clue what he's talking about (a.k.a. troll).

Not even gonna bother explaining.

And Drag, it seems that there's some kind of "attachment" function on guns.

-Wayu

Reksanden
Jul 19, 2011, 06:24 PM
Had an idea... How about returning the Lavis blade, with it able to change to more than just three forms, and that you're able to choose the weapon it forms?

Mike
Jul 19, 2011, 07:33 PM
Mags that can be transformed into weapons, or mags that can be attached to weapons.

I'd love that.

They'd be like that silver thing from Skies of Arcadia. Qupple or whatever? I have no idea what that thing is called anymore.

Randomness
Jul 19, 2011, 07:50 PM
They'd be like that silver thing from Skies of Arcadia. Qupple or whatever? I have no idea what that thing is called anymore.

Cupil. Would be interesting to have mags that give a super-weapon-mode instead of photon blasts.

PhotonDrop
Jul 19, 2011, 10:28 PM
Cupil. Would be interesting to have mags that give a super-weapon-mode instead of photon blasts.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Minicons from Transformers.

Randomness
Jul 19, 2011, 11:35 PM
For some reason I'm reminded of the Minicons from Transformers.

It's not an inappropriate comparison I suppose.

But I'm thinking it basically absorbs and mimics your weapon. But larger. And PEW PEW PEW ZAP ZAP ZAP.

Phinalphantasy
Jul 20, 2011, 08:55 PM
Unarmed fighting, force weapon melee, and gunblades. Maybe shields and support mags.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 20, 2011, 10:57 PM
Although I never played PSZ extensively, Shields intrigue me. Perhaps they could have a support function that protects party members from damage as well as the user? Or a technique that involves throwing said shield?

Twin Claws were a pretty cool weapon in PSU. If they can allow the user to do stuff like burrow underground/swim in midair/fire energy blasts, then they're a welcome addition to PSO2.

Although Axes were kinda redundant in PSU, maybe they could make a class of very heavy weapons consisting of axes and/or hammers. They could be situational weapons used to deal massive damage when the target is stunned or attacking someone else (if they are one of the slower-moving enemies.) Meanwhile, they could have Katanas for the fastest 2-handers and have Swords fall in between the two.

Spears could be the universal melee option that they were in PSU (albeit less overpowered.) After all, spears are the oldest and simplest weapon out there.

PSO-style cards that are actually useful would make me swoon.

I dunno whether they should go with Unarmed or Knuckles. Knuckles had some really cool Photon Arts (like the freaking multi-target rocket punch in Bogga Robado and the drunken boxing of Ikk Hikk,) but PSO's take added feet into unarmed combat. Perhaps PSO2's take could arm the hands and feet and incorporate both into the weapon's techniques?

Randomness
Jul 20, 2011, 11:17 PM
Shields in PSZ did have a party-defense PA available. I preferred riding on top of it myself.

I could go for combined boot/fist weapons. Basic would be, say, photon bars on the back of hand/shin. And then go from there.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 20, 2011, 11:29 PM
Shields in PSZ did have a party-defense PA available. I preferred riding on top of it myself.

I could go for combined boot/fist weapons. Basic would be, say, photon bars on the back of hand/shin. And then go from there.

I should've known. But regardless, I'd love to see shields in a Phantasy Star game that I can actually get into.

Dragwind
Jul 21, 2011, 01:04 AM
I should've known. But regardless, I'd love to see shields in a Phantasy Star game that I can actually get into.

Didn't like the shields in PS:P2/i?

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 21, 2011, 08:02 AM
Didn't like the shields in PS:P2/i?I never had a PSP.

RemiusTA
Jul 21, 2011, 08:07 AM
I think axes were redundant in PSU because...well, they wern't axes. I dont know what they were, aside from heavy looking blades.

Hopefully we can get some real heavy weapons in PSO2...but i dont know what on EARTH a "heavy weapon" is if those giant freaking swords they're hauling around aren't.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 21, 2011, 08:12 AM
I think axes were redundant in PSU because...well, they wern't axes. I dont know what they were, aside from heavy looking blades.

Hopefully we can get some real heavy weapons in PSO2...but i dont know what on EARTH a "heavy weapon" is if those giant freaking swords they're hauling around aren't.

Hm... Maybe PSU Axes were heavier because they were generally made with more metal than Swords? If that is so, then PSO2 Axes would have to be massive slabs of metal that put even the swords to shame.

RemiusTA
Jul 21, 2011, 08:32 AM
There's no real need for another weapon heavier than the PSU Sword, IMO. They were big enough to apparently need decent upper body strength to wield. The axes just looked kind of...well, dumb.

Yeah, i guess they were just more massive. But for what its worth, i think Swords always looked like they should have been more powerful than Axes. You barely even swing the axe very much, but Swords were one of the only PSU weapons where i really felt any weight to them, imo.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 21, 2011, 08:42 AM
On the other hand, they could go the way of PSO and make the Axes part of the Sword class. It's not too farfetched; World of Warcraft uses the same animations for 2-handed swords and 2-handed axes.

Zyrusticae
Jul 21, 2011, 10:22 AM
PSU axes were not redundant. They had a much higher focus on raw attack damage (1.5x the base attack, actually). Also, didn't their base attacks have no AoE component?

Plus, its PAs were way cooler than the sword PAs, which consisted of a vertical spinny-thing, a horizontal spinny-thing, and a simple high-damage vertical swing combo. The axe got a knockback-jump-knockback-again combo, a simple really high damage combo that ended with a knockback, and Anga Jabroga, which is admittedly the most boring and OP PA ever made, but frankly, I think the first two made up for it in spades.

If swords are made for dealing with crowds, axes are made for going toe-to-toe with the biggest, toughest foes and making them beg for mercy. Mmmm!