PSO 2:The End

[coreyblueexclusive]

Hello everyone,there are a few people here that are disappointed and how PSU was executed.I'm curious how many of you will quit the PSO franchise if this game look's like and turns out like PSU.I will be quitting this franchise if it looks anything like PSU with the cutesy anime art,and hearts and shit,thats not for me.There's a line you dont cross with me.I want the old PSO back.If Sega messes up I'm done with the PSO games,I'm burying my childhood for good.I'm getting older,I cant wait around for a game to get good,there's already Blade And Soul and The Secret World coming out.Only one game is getting my subscription and I'm hoping PSO2 wins.So how many of you are planning to stick around if this turns out like PSU??? (Also I'm hoping it's global.)

[BIG OLAF]

Me, because I liked PSU, especially it's art style. In fact, I hope PSO2 is like PSU, except with better, more improved versions of things that didn't work too well, like item synthesis.

[paracelsus]

I've never been able to fully jump over to PSU, but I'm going to force myself to play it as a form of research since I plan to write to Sega about idea's I have for PSO2. I've also had trouble with PSZ since it just seems like the characters have been limited to lower standards, you get horrendous AI partners, and undifferentiated techniques. The only bonus to PSZ is that you can deal physical damage with Force weapons using MST instead of ATP, and grinding armor.

[coreyblueexclusive]

I actually just youtubed some videos of the opening scenes for PSO and PSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Ufyp3F4tU"]YouTube - Phantasy star online, Opening theme~The whole new world.[/url] and PSU [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOukEiJYQQo Can someone tell me what happened?? How did it go to epic orchestra to a Saturday morning cartoon opening,I just died a little in the inside.._.I pray,pray,pray PSO 2 doesn't go down the same road.

[BIG OLAF]

I'll agree that PSU's music and all-around atmosphere (or "feel" of the game) wasn't even close to PSO's epic scale. Hopefully Sega can marry PSO and PSU's strengths together.

[coreyblueexclusive]

If PSO and PSU had a baby,I wonder what it'll look like.

[•Col•]

It's not going to play like PSO, give it up man.

That doesn't really mean it's a BAD thing though... I mean, the ideas they've been implementing in the past few Phantasy Star games are cool and refreshing. I'm talking about Chains, Dodge-rolling/Blocking, Photon Arts......

I don't know why so many of you hate PSU so much. I mean.... I played PSO on the Dreamcast, then Gamecube, then BlueBurst.... Then when I switched to PSU, yeah there were quite a few problems(ESPECIALLY in the first few months of its release) and I even like PSO better than it, but I don't utterly despise it either. :/ There were a number of things I found very refreshing about it.

And I don't know why so many are complaining about its anime style. The Phantasy Star series has always been animu-ish. -_-

[NoiseHERO]

Me, because I liked PSU, especially it's art style. In fact, I hope PSO2 is like PSU, except with better, more improved versions of things that didn't work too well, like item synthesis.

This.. :0

[coreyblueexclusive]

It's not going to play like PSO, give it up man.

That doesn't really mean it's a BAD thing though... I mean, the ideas they've been implementing in the past few Phantasy Star games are cool and refreshing. I'm talking about Chains, Dodge-rolling/Blocking, Photon Arts......

I don't know why so many of you hate PSU so much. I mean.... I played PSO on the Dreamcast, then Gamecube, then BlueBurst.... Then when I switched to PSU, yeah there were quite a few problems(ESPECIALLY in the first few months of its release) and I even like PSO better than it, but I don't utterly despise it either. :/ There were a number of things I found very refreshing about it.

And I don't know why so many are complaining about its anime style. The Phantasy Star series has always been animu-ish. -_-
Not because it was animish,was because it looked like something that shouldn't have left japan.With hearts,and friendship what the hell is this..saturday morning cartoon shit,I could go on.I liked PSU for about 4-5 months until I got bored of it.PSO artwork was more adult like even though it was anime,it had a western feel to it.PSU artwork is more childish and it tries hard to be too be for some reason.Pretty boy's,heart's and rainbows it crossed the line with me.
I hope Sakai keeps the original PSO artwork,that's one of things that made the game special,art,atmosphere,and story.Oh and no Ethan Weber,such a cliche character.:nono:

[MAXrobo]

i just played the two videos posted above at the same time. it sounded hilarious :lol:

anyway. i acctually do prefer the PSO style over PSU, but i rally dont think it was all that bad. i really wouldnt mind it eather way. as long as its not PSZ's style, now THAT was awful. fun game, but I think they tried to blend the PSO art with PsP2 art and it came out miserably.

[Dongra]

I can handle the PSU style as long as Sega doesn't add the ridiculous fan-service female clothing. Not that all the clothing options were perfect in PSO (I'm looking at you Hunewearl and Fonewearl). My main issue would be if they supported PSO2 the same way they supported PSU. I will not pay to be drip fed content again.

[coreyblueexclusive]

I actually seen some of the avatars for this website and I seen Ethan Weber with his hair looking wild,and I noticed the artwork to be like PSO's and it look's 100x better! I know this guys artwork he should be the art director for PSO2.Satoshi Sakai (Art Director)
Akikazu Mizuno (Chartacter Illustration) These two only.I got that from wiki :p (I just found out he wasn't doing illustration for PSU,some other guy was.)

[•Col•]

Also, Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity is my favorite intro to a Phantasy Star game so far. It's still kinda anime-ish, but it definitely has a much more serious feeling than PSU's intro, lol.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Lu9QHUHEU

[MAXrobo]

is it just me or does it look like the duman girl is holding a gun-sword?

the art and music are getting better from how it first was in PSU. i just hope we get some decent cast parts. i still have a hard time finding a set i like. iv said it before and ill say it again, they NEED more bulky parts, all the current stuff looks like humans in armor. i want to look like a machine when i play a cast. thats the most important to me.

as important as the style is, i really doubt they will mess it up so much that it will be the reason I dont play the game.

[coreyblueexclusive]

Also, Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity is my favorite intro to a Phantasy Star game so far. It's still kinda anime-ish, but it definitely has a much more serious feeling than PSU's intro, lol.

YouTube - PSP Phantasy Star 2 Infinity Opening Video HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Lu9QHUHEU)

I just cant get into PSU's intro's.:-( I dont like hearts,rainbow,friendship theme,seems to childish and makes me feel awkward.It's the way it's executed and that beast reminded of Digimon or Pokemon.:nono: I would play PSPi2 BUT no PSP EVEN though I dont like the intro,I would still play it like I did PSU.(Since its the last one.)

[•Col•]

is it just me or does it look like the duman girl is holding a gun-sword?

It's not a gun sword, it just looks like it. Whenever she pulls the trigger on the hilt, rockets on the back of the sword ignite, making the sword swing even faster. XD



I just cant get into PSU's intro's.:-( I dont like hearts,rainbow,friendship theme,seems to childish and makes me feel awkward.It's the way it's executed and that beast reminded of Digimon or Pokemon.:nono: I would play PSPi2 BUT no PSP EVEN though I dont like the intro,I would still play it like I did PSU.(Since its the last one.)

As a person who enjoyed PSU, but still enjoyed PSO even more..... PSP2 is my favorite Phantasy Star game I've ever played. I bought a PSP solely for it, and it was definitely worth it.

[Corey Blue]

Btw this is my new account now,wanted to start fresh and use the name I'll be using in game.

[Kent]

Btw this is my new account now,wanted to start fresh and use the name I'll be using in game.
You can get the name on your account changed, you know.

You can also not italicize every post.

[Corey Blue]

You can get the name on your account changed, you know.

You can also not italicize every post.

FUUUUUUUUUUUU seriously you can how? And ok I wont italicize everything.

[NoiseHERO]

The PSP game intros are almost as horrible as PSU's...but J-pop is ignorable if it's not too horrible.

PSO's artstyle and PSU's artsyle...the only difference I see on paper is the CG art from PSU, handdrawn they're both similar anime styles...(The whole realistic vibe) PSO only seemed "western" because of everyones blocky legoman bodies ingame.

Clothing wise...PSO may have been unique...but PSU had style. I'd rather everyone not look like the same mercenary. I'll admit PSU had a lot of shitty, perverted, gay, or sadly pathetic looking outfits.

But If they made the outfits more simple and casual or battle-ready depending on the player's choice instead of trying too hard to copy Tetsuya Nomura, everything would've been perfect.

[Corey Blue]

The PSP game intros are almost as horrible as PSU's...but J-pop is ignorable if it's not too horrible.

PSO's artstyle and PSU's artsyle...the only difference I see on paper is the CG art from PSU, handdrawn they're both similar anime styles...(The whole realistic vibe) PSO only seemed "western" because of everyones blocky legoman bodies ingame.

Clothing wise...PSO may have been unique...but PSU had style. I'd rather everyone not look like the same mercenary. I'll admit PSU had a lot of shitty, perverted, gay, or sadly pathetic looking outfits.

But If they made the outfits more simple and casual or battle-ready depending on the player's choice instead of trying too hard to copy Tetsuya Nomura, everything would've been perfect.

I have to agree,I hope they dont copy weirdness of PSU's clothes,please God no.. (Bolded part:I think PSO's art and PSU's art is very different,at first I thought there drawn by the same person,but there not,that guy who worked with Sakai on PSO,Akikazu Mizuno needs to be drawing the art for PSO 2.) I really wanna see a screenshot of the game before I say anymore.

[Wayu]

^

Take a look at the new trailer for PSPo2i. It's quite similar to PSO.

I want a mix. PSU's combat system, class, and race system and PSO's design, which includes the areas themselves, the enemies, the music, and all that jazz.

-Wayu

[Corey Blue]

The only race I would like to see included is beast,anything more then that is to much,I would also like a improved PSU combat system if possible.

[BIG OLAF]

I want a mix. PSU's combat system, class, and race system and PSO's design, which includes the areas themselves, the enemies, the music, and all that jazz.

-Wayu

That's exactly what I want. PSU's mechanics, and PSO's atmosphere. It would be beautiful. Glad to see someone has -basically- the exact same view as me.

[Wayu]

The only race I would like to see included is beast,anything more then that is to much,

If Beasts make it then Dewmans will as well.

-Wayu

[Corey Blue]

I think it would be a great idea learning from both games,then mixing the good part's with each other,but I'm afraid they might mess up or something,after experiencing PSU,I dont want to get to excited,it'll only only make me more depressed if they fail.

[Mitz]

I don't think that there was anything wrong with the way PSU looked. For a game from 2006, the graphics and visual representation was quite good. But for PSO2, I would like to see the architecture of the first game back, but seeing as we don't know anything about the storyline yet, we might see something completely new, which will be fine with me also.

[Corey Blue]

If Beasts make it then Dewmans will as well.

-Wayu

They dont have to put Duwmans in there really,aren't they like a mix between beast and Newmen?? That's to PSUish,well see when it comes around,but I dont thats a good idea and there new too,so nobody really is gonna miss them.That's really crossing the line.Unless the tie in is good enough.I dont see it happening.

[Corey Blue]

I don't think that there was anything wrong with the way PSU looked. For a game from 2006, the graphics and visual representation was quite good. But for PSO2, I would like to see the architecture of the first game back, but seeing as we don't know anything about the storyline yet, we might see something completely new, which will be fine with me also.

The game looked ok it just didn't have any atmosphere at all,and those empty ass levels is no excuse.:-x

[Mitz]

I agree, that's why it didn't interest me. I just don't believe that it has a lot to do with the visual representation. More with the gameplay and the community.

[Kion]

I kind of wish they would get rid of characters entirely in the Phantasy Star series. In PSO you had very little interaction with NPC's. You talked to the Principal, you had a couple of side quests you could initiate when talking to them and you had Dr. Montauge (sp?). Over all you were a character in a world, and you could go about doing what you wanted to.

PSU, PSZ, PSP, PSP2 have horrible execution when it comes to story line. You're smack dab in the center for everything; even though you're a rookie of no consequence people don't listen to and yet drag along anyways. The characters are impossibly bland and annoying Amilia from PSP2 taking the cake of being the worst character in gaming history. But seriously you have the Vol Brothers, Hyuga, Ethan, Sarisa, Vivian; I hate these generic anime characters and the convention of long boring cut scenes that take forever and don't really accomplish anything except state the fucking obvious. I think Lou is the only character from the recent games I don't want to strangle mainly because she only talks when she needs to.

[Wayu]

I dub this the fan boy topic.

Dewmans/Dewmen? are basically extreme glass cannons. Absurd on one end, absurd on the other. Beasts were good on all aspects of melee (except maybe EVP), Newmen were the same for techniques (once again, maybe except for EVP). Dewmans have good melee and teching, but terrible defenses all across the border. I guess it kind of replaces the FOnewearl of old, if it were to make it into PSO2. We've also got to consider the rest of the races if we're going to discuss this, and things such as the class system.

Don't start flaming me. I kinda thought PSO was relatively...dunno, empty. At least the offline lobbies were, probably for an obvious reason. It was basically Ultimate Ruins, Ultimate Ruins, repeat, rinse, reuse. It's damn hard to keep a story going without characters. PSO actually got it pretty good despite the RuinsRuinsRuinsOMFGDARKPHALLUS part.

SEGA's probably taking the easy road out this time. Also, some people like having characters around. Despite the fact that yes, they are heavily anime/manga based, they create a story. It may be bad, but hey, you've got something. Following messages left behind by well-known figures is one thing, fighting along side them is another.

I do concur that Emilia is annoying. And Yut/Yuuto. And Ethan. The problem is, though, that these long and boring cutscenes that we see probably would happen that same way if we were actually there, in that world of theirs. I mean, yes they're stupid. The problem is, us real-life humans are also stupid. They've gotta be modeled after something. We're basically stuck with it.

Keep in mind that the majority of the above typed stuff is opinion. You guys also have your own opinions, and you're entitled to that. This happens all too often, so a pre-emptive warning - keep it civil and don't attack other people's opinions just because they don't match with yours. We're here for discussion and a bit of healthy arguments, but NOT for 'FUCK PSU' or 'FUCK PSO', etc.

-Wayu

[Dongra]

I personally would prefer PSO2 to be more like PSO. I'm talking about restricted classes, I like the idea of each individual doing their job in a party, open areas to explore, and no story forced down your throat. As far as looks go, I don't mind the customization or style that PSU took, but I would like to see a more diverse atmosphere. I think most of us will agree that PSU's areas were bland, dull, and boring. As limited as PSO may seem compared to PSU, I always found myself doing more in PSO than I ever did in PSU. I'd much rather do TTF, despite loathing this quest with a passion, than spam the current popular mission in PSU, fucking White Beast.

[Crystal_Shard]

Given what we see from PSPo2 and Infinity, I think most of us will agree that Sega and Sakai are largely on the right track, and that flaws with the story largely stem from the bad hand they were dealt with from the team that took over from PSU.

This isn't to say that PSU's story in inherently bad, but the poor pacing and liberal use of shounen archetypes pretty much shot down any attempt at a serious story. It's simply not subtle enough, and coming from PSO's understated story is simply jarring.

PSO 2 does need to shed some of that understatedness of its predecessor though. I could do with a certain amount of proper exposition, if done right.


RuinsRuinsRuinsOMFGDARKPHALLUS part.

You aren't going to forget that anytime soon are you? ^_^' I've created a monster.

[Corey Blue]

Given what we see from PSPo2 and Infinity, I think most of us will agree that Sega and Sakai are largely on the right track, and that flaws with the story largely stem from the bad hand they were dealt with from the team that took over from PSU.

This isn't to say that PSU's story in inherently bad, but the poor pacing and liberal use of shounen archetypes pretty much shot down any attempt at a serious story. It's simply not subtle enough, and coming from PSO's understated story is simply jarring.

PSO 2 does need to shed some of that understatedness of its predecessor though. I could do with a certain amount of proper exposition, if done right.



You aren't going to forget that anytime soon are you? ^_^' I've created a monster.
I hope they keep the story kinda centered around the players,and where helping the hunters fight this threat.I'm really,really curious to see how they do this.^^ Also Romance & Tragedy make the best PSO stories.

[Drawers]

It's not going to play like PSO, give it up man.

That doesn't really mean it's a BAD thing though... I mean, the ideas they've been implementing in the past few Phantasy Star games are cool and refreshing. I'm talking about Chains, Dodge-rolling/Blocking, Photon Arts......

I don't know why so many of you hate PSU so much. I mean.... I played PSO on the Dreamcast, then Gamecube, then BlueBurst.... Then when I switched to PSU, yeah there were quite a few problems(ESPECIALLY in the first few months of its release) and I even like PSO better than it, but I don't utterly despise it either. :/ There were a number of things I found very refreshing about it.

And I don't know why so many are complaining about its anime style. The Phantasy Star series has always been animu-ish. -_-

Who are you? Like, where are you getting your information from? It's people that say bullsh- like "it's not going to happen" that make me wish I was right next to them so I can scream stfu in their face then bitch slap them.

It has nothing to do with the topic, it's about how you come on here making conclusive statements out of what you assume is going to happen and not solid facts you were told from whatever source that is proven reliable. None of us do, now please, sit the f- down.

[Robocop II]

I wouldn't necessarily stop playing it. After playing PSU I am sure I can stomach anything else they might do. I liked PSO for what it was at the time, and whatever they come up with for PSO2 I will play it regardless because I have loved the Phantasy Star series since I was in elementry school. Still...I would love it if they wouldn't, pardon my language, half ass the music like they did with PSU and the PSP titles. I loved the atmospheric mood PSO's music set for me. So peaceful yet haunting to me. Music is the big one for me I want them to really try on it, it sounds stupid for some, but to me the music is what helps set the mood of the game.

[•Col•]

Who are you? Like, where are you getting your information from? It's people that say bullsh- like "it's not going to happen" that make me wish I was right next to them so I can scream stfu in their face then bitch slap them.

It has nothing to do with the topic, it's about how you come on here making conclusive statements out of what you assume is going to happen and not solid facts you were told from whatever source that is proven reliable. None of us do, now please, sit the f- down.

whoa, umad o.O

It's foolish to think that this game will play exactly as PSO1 did... Of course they're going to implement things from the PSU/PSP/PSZero games... That's just how game developing works, lol. The only reason they wouldn't add anything from any of those games to PSO2, would be if EVERY SINGLE IDEA they implemented into them were bad and everyone hated them. Which is definitely not the case.

Anyway, I was just telling him that change isn't bad, because Sega has had a lot of cool new ideas in recent games, and they could make PSO2 even more fun than PSO was.

[Corey Blue]

I wouldn't necessarily stop playing it. After playing PSU I am sure I can stomach anything else they might do. I liked PSO for what it was at the time, and whatever they come up with for PSO2 I will play it regardless because I have loved the Phantasy Star series since I was in elementry school. Still...I would love it if they wouldn't, pardon my language, half ass the music like they did with PSU and the PSP titles. I loved the atmospheric mood PSO's music set for me. So peaceful yet haunting to me. Music is the big one for me I want them to really try on it, it sounds stupid for some, but to me the music is what helps set the mood of the game.

Nope not stupid at all,it's a big thing for alot of people here.;-)

[Sinue_v2]

I'm probably going to be utterly alone on this, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Toyo Ozaki return as a graphics designer. PSIII was definitely a departure from the art styles of the first two games, and it took about a decade and a half for it to grow on me, but there's something wholly appealing to me lately with the old 1980's anime styling.

Example
[spoiler-box]http://www.pscave.com/fanart/ps/ozaki/mieu3.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I agree with the OP in that I did not appreciate the shift in tone and atmosphere away from PSO and other titles. Phantasy Star has always had a very cartoony look to it, but they typically managed to pull it off as a facade where things don't look and behave as you would expect from environments with bright colors and stylized anime art. There was a sinister undercurrent that built an oppressive atmosphere where victory and happy endings were not assured, but your only hope of survival and possibly setting things right was to forge ahead and keep fighting for a future. Any future. Hope, in those games was not a buzzword spouted mindlessly by cheerful pep-talk power of love and friendship working miracles bunch of fruitcakes who knew they'd triumph by the power of their hearts. Hope in PS used to be ambiguous. The heroes of PSU and older titles both share in common the confidence they have in their abilities... but PSU lost a critical element to their characters. Desperation. You give it your all and hope to win the day, but at what cost do you trade victory... and are you willing to pay that price?

I want that back. Out of the entire franchise, PSO v.1 and Phantasy Star II probably had the most oppressive and bleak atmospheres - and both were very bright and cartoony. It underscored the hidden conspiracies and the illusion of normalcy draped over the corruption of government machinations, the black military projects that take precedent over the people being used as a smokescreen, and the a-moral pursuit of forbidden knowledge and power that seduces those who seek it into the abyss where waits the Dark Force tempting them to do it's bidding, like a dark puppetmaster tugging on a string.

While PSO definitely went in it's own direction and forged it's own identity as a competent title insofar as art and atmosphere go, there is a strong influence from Phantasy Star II's design and atmosphere which is blatantly apparent, and that's not a bad thing. While there were many aspects of PSO's cartoony facade that I was not particularly thrilled with, I can still at least appreciate what they were going for and support that direction as a general rule.

PSU has none of that subtlety. None of that depth and dimension. Yes it what are supposed to be tragic events, hard choices, failings, an apparent "darkness" and atrocities committed. None of it had an impact on me though. The few deaths there were happened to characters who had very little development time and were utterly expendable anyhow. Most aren't named, and of the victims you do run across - it's hard to empathize with surviors of a colony drop that killed millions when they're complaints are about pissant shit like "I have no milk for my baby!" This is normally not an issue to anyone who knows what that pair of titties hanging off her chest are used for, but since we're going the 4kids bastardization route, that's not really an option now is it? Ustvestia would blush at her lack of perspective... and idiocy. Then again, he's never had a high opinion of women to begin with.. either physically (JP) or as a sexist bigot (US). (That's some good ole 1990's American puritanical values for ya!)

PSU actually borrowed more from PSII (especially in the storyline department) than PSO ever even considered going, but this didn't actually make PSU more like PSII. They were cheap fan service references loosely slopped together into blender narrative and played by characters who had no emotional impact or relevance. Nobody who suggested that PSU return to it's narrative driven roots actually meant that they wanted to see a bunch of bastardized references and plot points loosely strung together, sugar coated, deep fried in suck and violated in such a manner. We, or at least I, wanted them to capture the spirit of the original games while telling it's own narrative and framed by new approaches to established set-pieces of the series. God forbid they actually try to live up to the "Phantasy Star V" bait & switch they pulled and at least try to work PSU into a broader narrative that is bolstered by drawing upon the established lore and history of the previous titles. It doesn't have to overwhelm or restrict their ability to tell the story they want to. That's PS staple... and one of the reasons why setting the PS titles 1,000 years apart was that it allowed the developers freedom to experiment with new settings, styles, civilizations, antagonists, ... essentially allowing them to make three very different and unique titles - and still be able to use that history to tie them all together quite epically with the fourth installment. Even PSO dropped hints and made subtle suggestions that it could be a true sequel to the original series rather easily by just tweaking the text a bit here and filling in details there. Their arc with Coral and Pioneer 2 and all that need not be altered, but just let it be known that the ruins and Dark Falz were Algol's legacy, representing the last loose thread which, if tugged upon, could unravel the peace which was secured in PSIV.


Oh, and by the way... who thought it was a good idea to portray an ultimate expression of evil incarnate as a fucking circus clown? Wait, scratch that... circus clowns are more intimidating. They've got that subtle creepiness thing going that can really fuck with your head. No, "Dulk Fakis" (ugh) was totally uninspired (which I guess fit with the HIVE area well at least). Rykros? It was a giant purple eyeball for christs sake. That doesn't even make sense. Why bother with photon weapons and all then when you can do the job with a Red Ryder BB gun.

The older incarnations of Dark Falz/Force weren't that intimidating either admittedly... but at least they tried to acknowledge the H.P. Lovecraftian influence by portraying him as a nightmarish demonic presence or formless undulating masses of flesh and mouths and talons. At the very least, I knew what they were trying to do with it's design. PSO also had a bestial and twisted mass of flesh and maws for it's Dark Falz, with a final form that took a more luminous and angelic appearance - though corrupted and tainted by the dark. That also kind of made sense given the ancient unseen battle still being waged between The Great Light and Profound Darkness around which the franchise revolves. Falz was trying to subvert and consume the photons (light) to absorb it's power, giving it the more rainbowish light show. Not my taste, really, but I get it and it fits. PSU's Dark Falz didn't even have a final form. It was a reskin with nearly identical textures to the first uninspired design, and if pressed you might include the "Dulk Fish" De Rol reskin to his list of forms. Though it wouldn't be a way to help your case. I don't even want to get started on PSZero's "Dark Pony" iteration. I didn't even want to fight it... I just wanted to put a bit and bridal on that bitch and ride him around the city.

I have plenty more to rant on, but there's things to do now and nobody is reading this far anyhow.

In short; I would be happy if PSO2 adopted and expanded upon some of the gameplay innovations that PSU got right and which were desperately needed... but that won't matter ultimately if I have to sog through the uninspired levels, flat music, annoying characters, insulting "HEY REMEMBER THIS SHIT FROM PS-whatever" fanservice fluff, and rain-puddle deep childish storyline where the power of friendship can break the goddamned laws of physics themselves if it has to in order to deliver a happy ending where even the main protagonist finds a heart and a handjob waiting for him after being taught a lesson.

If I wanted cliche children's anime trope, I'd watch 4Kids. It should stay out of my goddamned Phantasy Star. If it can't.. well, yeah, I'll cut the series loose at PSO v.1 and hope to god they make a sequel to Infinite Space. I haven't played a JRPG who's storyline brutalized you so bad since Phantasy Star II's ending... and I loved every minute of it.

[Corey Blue]

I'm probably going to be utterly alone on this, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Toyo Ozaki return as a graphics designer. PSIII was definitely a departure from the art styles of the first two games, and it took about a decade and a half for it to grow on me, but there's something wholly appealing to me lately with the old 1980's anime styling.

Example
[spoiler-box]http://www.pscave.com/fanart/ps/ozaki/mieu3.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I agree with the OP in that I did not appreciate the shift in tone and atmosphere away from PSO and other titles. Phantasy Star has always had a very cartoony look to it, but they typically managed to pull it off as a facade where things don't look and behave as you would expect from environments with bright colors and stylized anime art. There was a sinister undercurrent that built an oppressive atmosphere where victory and happy endings were not assured, but your only hope of survival and possibly setting things right was to forge ahead and keep fighting for a future. Any future. Hope, in those games was not a buzzword spouted mindlessly by cheerful pep-talk power of love and friendship working miracles bunch of fruitcakes who knew they'd triumph by the power of their hearts. Hope in PS used to be ambiguous. The heroes of PSU and older titles both share in common the confidence they have in their abilities... but PSU lost a critical element to their characters. Desperation. You give it your all and hope to win the day, but at what cost do you trade victory... and are you willing to pay that price?

I want that back. Out of the entire franchise, PSO v.1 and Phantasy Star II probably had the most oppressive and bleak atmospheres - and both were very bright and cartoony. It underscored the hidden conspiracies and the illusion of normalcy draped over the corruption of government machinations, the black military projects that take precedent over the people being used as a smokescreen, and the a-moral pursuit of forbidden knowledge and power that seduces those who seek it into the abyss where waits the Dark Force tempting them to do it's bidding, like a dark puppetmaster tugging on a string.

While PSO definitely went in it's own direction and forged it's own identity as a competent title insofar as art and atmosphere go, there is a strong influence from Phantasy Star II's design and atmosphere which is blatantly apparent, and that's not a bad thing. While there were many aspects of PSO's cartoony facade that I was not particularly thrilled with, I can still at least appreciate what they were going for and support that direction as a general rule.

PSU has none of that subtlety. None of that depth and dimension. Yes it what are supposed to be tragic events, hard choices, failings, an apparent "darkness" and atrocities committed. None of it had an impact on me though. The few deaths there were happened to characters who had very little development time and were utterly expendable anyhow. Most aren't named, and of the victims you do run across - it's hard to empathize with surviors of a colony drop that killed millions when they're complaints are about pissant shit like "I have no milk for my baby!" This is normally not an issue to anyone who knows what that pair of titties hanging off her chest are used for, but since we're going the 4kids bastardization route, that's not really an option now is it? Ustvestia would blush at her lack of perspective... and idiocy. Then again, he's never had a high opinion of women to begin with.. either physically (JP) or as a sexist bigot (US). (That's some good ole 1990's American puritanical values for ya!)

PSU actually borrowed more from PSII (especially in the storyline department) than PSO ever even considered going, but this didn't actually make PSU more like PSII. They were cheap fan service references loosely slopped together into blender narrative and played by characters who had no emotional impact or relevance. Nobody who suggested that PSU return to it's narrative driven roots actually meant that they wanted to see a bunch of bastardized references and plot points loosely strung together, sugar coated, deep fried in suck and violated in such a manner. We, or at least I, wanted them to capture the spirit of the original games while telling it's own narrative and framed by new approaches to established set-pieces of the series. God forbid they actually try to live up to the "Phantasy Star V" bait & switch they pulled and at least try to work PSU into a broader narrative that is bolstered by drawing upon the established lore and history of the previous titles. It doesn't have to overwhelm or restrict their ability to tell the story they want to. That's PS staple... and one of the reasons why setting the PS titles 1,000 years apart was that it allowed the developers freedom to experiment with new settings, styles, civilizations, antagonists, ... essentially allowing them to make three very different and unique titles - and still be able to use that history to tie them all together quite epically with the fourth installment. Even PSO dropped hints and made subtle suggestions that it could be a true sequel to the original series rather easily by just tweaking the text a bit here and filling in details there. Their arc with Coral and Pioneer 2 and all that need not be altered, but just let it be known that the ruins and Dark Falz were Algol's legacy, representing the last loose thread which, if tugged upon, could unravel the peace which was secured in PSIV.


Oh, and by the way... who thought it was a good idea to portray an ultimate expression of evil incarnate as a fucking circus clown? Wait, scratch that... circus clowns are more intimidating. They've got that subtle creepiness thing going that can really fuck with your head. No, "Dulk Fakis" (ugh) was totally uninspired (which I guess fit with the HIVE area well at least). Rykros? It was a giant purple eyeball for christs sake. That doesn't even make sense. Why bother with photon weapons and all then when you can do the job with a Red Ryder BB gun.

The older incarnations of Dark Falz/Force weren't that intimidating either admittedly... but at least they tried to acknowledge the H.P. Lovecraftian influence by portraying him as a nightmarish demonic presence or formless undulating masses of flesh and mouths and talons. At the very least, I knew what they were trying to do with it's design. PSO also had a bestial and twisted mass of flesh and maws for it's Dark Falz, with a final form that took a more luminous and angelic appearance - though corrupted and tainted by the dark. That also kind of made sense given the ancient unseen battle still being waged between The Great Light and Profound Darkness around which the franchise revolves. Falz was trying to subvert and consume the photons (light) to absorb it's power, giving it the more rainbowish light show. Not my taste, really, but I get it and it fits. PSU's Dark Falz didn't even have a final form. It was a reskin with nearly identical textures to the first uninspired design, and if pressed you might include the "Dulk Fish" De Rol reskin to his list of forms. Though it wouldn't be a way to help your case. I don't even want to get started on PSZero's "Dark Pony" iteration. I didn't even want to fight it... I just wanted to put a bit and bridal on that bitch and ride him around the city.

I have plenty more to rant on, but there's things to do now and nobody is reading this far anyhow.

In short; I would be happy if PSO2 adopted and expanded upon some of the gameplay innovations that PSU got right and which were desperately needed... but that won't matter ultimately if I have to sog through the uninspired levels, flat music, annoying characters, insulting "HEY REMEMBER THIS SHIT FROM PS-whatever" fanservice fluff, and rain-puddle deep childish storyline where the power of friendship can break the goddamned laws of physics themselves if it has to in order to deliver a happy ending where even the main protagonist finds a heart and a handjob waiting for him after being taught a lesson.

If I wanted cliche children's anime trope, I'd watch 4Kids. It should stay out of my goddamned Phantasy Star. If it can't.. well, yeah, I'll cut the series loose at PSO v.1 and hope to god they make a sequel to Infinite Space. I haven't played a JRPG who's storyline brutalized you so bad since Phantasy Star II's ending... and I loved every minute of it.
THIS THIS 100X man you made me laugh a few times,I read all of this,I have to play with you one day.:-D

[Kion]

...I would be happy if PSO2 adopted and expanded upon some of the gameplay innovations that PSU got right and which were desperately needed... but that won't matter ultimately if I have to sog through the uninspired levels, flat music, annoying characters, insulting "HEY REMEMBER THIS SHIT FROM PS-whatever" fanservice fluff, and rain-puddle deep childish storyline where the power of friendship can break the goddamned laws of physics themselves if it has to in order to deliver a happy ending where even the main protagonist finds a heart and a handjob waiting for him after being taught a lesson.

If I wanted cliche children's anime trope, I'd watch 4Kids. It should stay out of my goddamned Phantasy Star. If it can't.. well, yeah, I'll cut the series loose at PSO v.1 and hope to god they make a sequel to Infinite Space. I haven't played a JRPG who's storyline brutalized you so bad since Phantasy Star II's ending... and I loved every minute of it.

That was a great read. Quoted for awesomeness.

[DuRaL]

^

Take a look at the new trailer for PSPo2i. It's quite similar to PSO.

I want a mix. PSU's combat system, class, and race system and PSO's design, which includes the areas themselves, the enemies, the music, and all that jazz.

-Wayu

I don't know... am I the only one who actually found PSU's combat system more boring than PSO's?
I mean, great, we have PA's.. but did they actually add to the gameplay? Imo PSU took away a lot of depth from the combat system.
In PSU (unlike PSO) it's impossible to counter 99% of the enemy attacks, so you just keep hitting the attack/PA buttons.. timing doesn't matter, it's simple button mashing..
Then the Just-Attack added some depth because you needed the right timing, but at the same time it made combat slower (you have to wait as long as possible, unlike PSO), thus more boring..
They also removed the special attacks, so every weapon of the same weapon-type is exactly the same except for stats (with very few exceptions).. on PSO you had way more choices! Just because a weapon had the highest ATP didn't make it the best weapon, especially not the best weapon for every situation. Sometimes a monster would have really high DFP and you'd deal more damage with a fire-special than with a normal attack of a high-ATP-weapon. Or a monster has very high HP, so you'd best hit it with a demons attack to reduce its HP by 75%. You're close to dead and out of monomates? Thank god you have your HP-Drain Slicer with you! etc. etc.

another advantage of PSO's combat was that you could use technics during battle. Casting a quick rabarta for example would cancel all enemy attacks at once, then you could quickly finish them off with a sword-combo..

Meanwhile on PSU.. another PA.. and another PA.. oh, another PA.. and another.. *use photon charge* more PA.. PA... PA.......... yea, true, that's really so much fun... not!
It looks more dynamic, but it's actually very monotonous ;(

On top of that, PSO's quick-select was way better (and faster) than PSU's palette ~_^

I'm not saying i want PSO's battle system 1:1 back, but i want something that works as good as PSO's system. I want to be able to cancel enemy attacks when i time my attacks correctly. I want special attacks which are useful in different situations. I want to be able to cast techs without using FO-weapons.
I also don't mind PA's as long as the combat is not based on mindless PA-spamming!

What I actually want to say with this post is that it's not as simple as saying "i want PSU's combat and PSO's style and it will be awesome"
If they only combine PSU's combat with PSO's style, it'll still have many flaws like PSU did. On the other hand, saying "I want PSO's combat" would mean that PSO2 wouldn't have developed at all in 10 years.
So what PSO2 really needs is fresh gameplay that's based on PSO and features the good sides of PSU/PSZ/PSP, but also includes new ideas

[Wayu]

^

Try playing PSPo2. I actually collectively group PSP with PSU, as they're the same universe. Yes, they need new ideas. If PSO2 didn't have any, it would be PSO REVAMPED to most people.

Guys, guys guys...what did I say about no flaming? Bad boys. *spanks with Ami's tuna*

@Sinue: Wall 'o Text lol. Do be careful, though, that your argument is constructed around the PSO side of the 'PSO vs. PSU' argument, though it leans much more to the middle way. Be careful of PSU fans attacking that argument. Your use of loaded words and pushy opinions may flip the rage switch of many.

-Wayu

[Sinue_v2]

Be careful of PSU fans attacking that argument. Your use of loaded words and pushy opinions may flip the rage switch of many.

Come on, that was like every other day on the PSU general boards during the game's first few years. More of a return to form, really, than any sort of uncharacteristic outburst. Maybe a little more incoherent swearing and a little less bourbon. Sega really screwed the pooch when it came to PSU - and I'm not about to sugar coat my critiques and opinions for the sake of placating some fanboys heart. I've seen nearly every stalwart defender of Sonic Team that PSU general had over the years eventually come around to my *general* side of the fence - though certainly not by any argument I ever made. No, Sonic Team did that all on their own - pushing and eventually breaking their fanbase little by little as people got sick and tired of their shit.

Besides, the only reason I'm so hard on PSU is because of the sheer amount of untapped potential that Sonic Team had at their disposal to create a truly epic online RPG... which they pissed away so frivolously. You can see it right there, just under the surface. Beneath that layer of incompetence, poor budgeting, lack of direction, and mismanagement on multiple levels both during the development cycle through post-launch server management. Sonic Team truly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with PSU, and for that... yeah, they deserve to be berated.

So let the rage switches fly if they may, and fuck em if they do. Rage on the internet? Who ever heard of such a thing? It's not exactly like it's some elusive oddity worthy of chronicling in Ripley's Believe it or Not here. Won't be the first time it's happened, and it sure as hell won't be the last.

[Wayu]

*triple sigh*

As it seems as if the combatants are willing to rip out each others throats and let their own throats be ripped out, I have nothing else to say.

Please, guys, don't turn this into the real end, as stated by the topic name. If we can't have constructive argument and can only have flames, strong words, personal attacks, and stubborn warriors determined to kill and only kill, I say we have the PSO2 forum area closed.

So long, good bye, and thanks for all the fish. Oh, make that dead fish, so no thanks.

-Wayu

[Dongra]

Boy, you really like to blow things out of proportion. You're acting like every thread in this section is a ticking time bomb, but I have yet to see any sign of incoherent flaming take place or anything close to it.

[Wayu]

^

Trying to stop it before it flies out of control. Let's not make this whatever that forum was called again. Gave up on that place.

-Wayu

[Dongra]

Perhaps I have been desensitized, thanks to a particular private server, but I have only seen opinions. People have been expressing what they want to see in each game and have been debating on what they think can be improved. We aren't all going to agree with each other, and that's natural, but I have yet to see anyone argue their opinion as a fact claiming others' opinions as being inferior. Well, there is one particular thread that could draw some negative attention I suppose.

[Wayu]

Yeah, THAT thread. That was bad.

There's a lot of loaded words and personal attacks, though. Maybe it's unintentional, but if you analyze the posts there's quite a bit of logical and rhetorical fallacies.

-Wayu

[Dongra]

If things get out of hand a bit then so be it. We have mods for a reason.

[Wayu]

*quadruple sigh*

Aleeeeeex...

-Wayu

[GeoSword]

Well there also the fact that Yuji Naka isn't working on PSP2i or PSO2. So it is no surprise that Sakai would take PSP2i in a different direction than what Naka did back when PSU first came out. Is Sakai directing PSO2? Or any information that he is or who is working on PSO2? Is SONIC TEAM even involved anymore?

[Wayu]

SONIC Team is leading the PSO2 effort, if my memory serves.

-Wayu

[Skye-Fox713]

[spoiler-box]I'm probably going to be utterly alone on this, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Toyo Ozaki return as a graphics designer. PSIII was definitely a departure from the art styles of the first two games, and it took about a decade and a half for it to grow on me, but there's something wholly appealing to me lately with the old 1980's anime styling.

Example
[spoiler-box]http://www.pscave.com/fanart/ps/ozaki/mieu3.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I agree with the OP in that I did not appreciate the shift in tone and atmosphere away from PSO and other titles. Phantasy Star has always had a very cartoony look to it, but they typically managed to pull it off as a facade where things don't look and behave as you would expect from environments with bright colors and stylized anime art. There was a sinister undercurrent that built an oppressive atmosphere where victory and happy endings were not assured, but your only hope of survival and possibly setting things right was to forge ahead and keep fighting for a future. Any future. Hope, in those games was not a buzzword spouted mindlessly by cheerful pep-talk power of love and friendship working miracles bunch of fruitcakes who knew they'd triumph by the power of their hearts. Hope in PS used to be ambiguous. The heroes of PSU and older titles both share in common the confidence they have in their abilities... but PSU lost a critical element to their characters. Desperation. You give it your all and hope to win the day, but at what cost do you trade victory... and are you willing to pay that price?

I want that back. Out of the entire franchise, PSO v.1 and Phantasy Star II probably had the most oppressive and bleak atmospheres - and both were very bright and cartoony. It underscored the hidden conspiracies and the illusion of normalcy draped over the corruption of government machinations, the black military projects that take precedent over the people being used as a smokescreen, and the a-moral pursuit of forbidden knowledge and power that seduces those who seek it into the abyss where waits the Dark Force tempting them to do it's bidding, like a dark puppetmaster tugging on a string.

While PSO definitely went in it's own direction and forged it's own identity as a competent title insofar as art and atmosphere go, there is a strong influence from Phantasy Star II's design and atmosphere which is blatantly apparent, and that's not a bad thing. While there were many aspects of PSO's cartoony facade that I was not particularly thrilled with, I can still at least appreciate what they were going for and support that direction as a general rule.

PSU has none of that subtlety. None of that depth and dimension. Yes it what are supposed to be tragic events, hard choices, failings, an apparent "darkness" and atrocities committed. None of it had an impact on me though. The few deaths there were happened to characters who had very little development time and were utterly expendable anyhow. Most aren't named, and of the victims you do run across - it's hard to empathize with surviors of a colony drop that killed millions when they're complaints are about pissant shit like "I have no milk for my baby!" This is normally not an issue to anyone who knows what that pair of titties hanging off her chest are used for, but since we're going the 4kids bastardization route, that's not really an option now is it? Ustvestia would blush at her lack of perspective... and idiocy. Then again, he's never had a high opinion of women to begin with.. either physically (JP) or as a sexist bigot (US). (That's some good ole 1990's American puritanical values for ya!)

PSU actually borrowed more from PSII (especially in the storyline department) than PSO ever even considered going, but this didn't actually make PSU more like PSII. They were cheap fan service references loosely slopped together into blender narrative and played by characters who had no emotional impact or relevance. Nobody who suggested that PSU return to it's narrative driven roots actually meant that they wanted to see a bunch of bastardized references and plot points loosely strung together, sugar coated, deep fried in suck and violated in such a manner. We, or at least I, wanted them to capture the spirit of the original games while telling it's own narrative and framed by new approaches to established set-pieces of the series. God forbid they actually try to live up to the "Phantasy Star V" bait & switch they pulled and at least try to work PSU into a broader narrative that is bolstered by drawing upon the established lore and history of the previous titles. It doesn't have to overwhelm or restrict their ability to tell the story they want to. That's PS staple... and one of the reasons why setting the PS titles 1,000 years apart was that it allowed the developers freedom to experiment with new settings, styles, civilizations, antagonists, ... essentially allowing them to make three very different and unique titles - and still be able to use that history to tie them all together quite epically with the fourth installment. Even PSO dropped hints and made subtle suggestions that it could be a true sequel to the original series rather easily by just tweaking the text a bit here and filling in details there. Their arc with Coral and Pioneer 2 and all that need not be altered, but just let it be known that the ruins and Dark Falz were Algol's legacy, representing the last loose thread which, if tugged upon, could unravel the peace which was secured in PSIV.


Oh, and by the way... who thought it was a good idea to portray an ultimate expression of evil incarnate as a fucking circus clown? Wait, scratch that... circus clowns are more intimidating. They've got that subtle creepiness thing going that can really fuck with your head. No, "Dulk Fakis" (ugh) was totally uninspired (which I guess fit with the HIVE area well at least). Rykros? It was a giant purple eyeball for christs sake. That doesn't even make sense. Why bother with photon weapons and all then when you can do the job with a Red Ryder BB gun.

The older incarnations of Dark Falz/Force weren't that intimidating either admittedly... but at least they tried to acknowledge the H.P. Lovecraftian influence by portraying him as a nightmarish demonic presence or formless undulating masses of flesh and mouths and talons. At the very least, I knew what they were trying to do with it's design. PSO also had a bestial and twisted mass of flesh and maws for it's Dark Falz, with a final form that took a more luminous and angelic appearance - though corrupted and tainted by the dark. That also kind of made sense given the ancient unseen battle still being waged between The Great Light and Profound Darkness around which the franchise revolves. Falz was trying to subvert and consume the photons (light) to absorb it's power, giving it the more rainbowish light show. Not my taste, really, but I get it and it fits. PSU's Dark Falz didn't even have a final form. It was a reskin with nearly identical textures to the first uninspired design, and if pressed you might include the "Dulk Fish" De Rol reskin to his list of forms. Though it wouldn't be a way to help your case. I don't even want to get started on PSZero's "Dark Pony" iteration. I didn't even want to fight it... I just wanted to put a bit and bridal on that bitch and ride him around the city.

I have plenty more to rant on, but there's things to do now and nobody is reading this far anyhow.

In short; I would be happy if PSO2 adopted and expanded upon some of the gameplay innovations that PSU got right and which were desperately needed... but that won't matter ultimately if I have to sog through the uninspired levels, flat music, annoying characters, insulting "HEY REMEMBER THIS SHIT FROM PS-whatever" fanservice fluff, and rain-puddle deep childish storyline where the power of friendship can break the goddamned laws of physics themselves if it has to in order to deliver a happy ending where even the main protagonist finds a heart and a handjob waiting for him after being taught a lesson.

If I wanted cliche children's anime trope, I'd watch 4Kids. It should stay out of my goddamned Phantasy Star. If it can't.. well, yeah, I'll cut the series loose at PSO v.1 and hope to god they make a sequel to Infinite Space. I haven't played a JRPG who's storyline brutalized you so bad since Phantasy Star II's ending... and I loved every minute of it.[/spoiler-box]

Yup you pretty much nailed it on the Head why PSU sucked so much, and while PSO had a anime look to it just under the surface it had a dark and serious tone to is and you could feel it through just about the whole game. For me I started on PSO ep.1&2 on the GC and I absolutely loved the game.

At the start of the forest you couldn't feel it as much and you were getting the basis of the story through Rico's messages but as you whent deeper into the game right about caves 2 or 3 is where shyte really started to hit the fan and no amount of "love and Friendship" BS was gonna help your little sad sorry ass and if you died no one will care and they will just send someone else. That was my impressions of ep.1.

Now ep.2 you knew what happened with Rico if you chose to go with ep.1 first. Now they start you in 2 different virtual reality arenas to test your skills, then after that was through not long after you hit planet side it doesn't take long for you to realize that the shyte has already hit the fan for the ep2 story line. And the moment you hit down in the seabed levels I was constantly getting freaked out by stuff that would jump out of nowhere and eff my world up and reading the messages Flowen left I knew there was something waiting for me at the bottom of the labs to tear me asunder and eat my soul.

So yeah because of all the points where you hit on why psu sucked are the points where PSO did amazing and sucked me into the game and story line.

[GeoSword]

PSO to me felt like reading a novel and imagining what Pioneer 1 had to go through before your arrival down on Ragol. I did feel submersed into what little story there was but I felt as if a little more story could be added and Episode2 and 4 added somewhat to that. I enjoy still the direction PSU took as to what has become of the Portable games. Sure, PSU had its flaws but then again, people would complain that the games were "more of the same" anyway if PSU was like PSO. The same would be when PSO2 comes around I suppose.

@ Wayu

Oh, OK then. I either missed SONIC TEAM being mentioned in PSP2 or something and haven't seen their name pop up anymore since Naka left SEGA.

[Wayu]

I was constantly getting freaked out by stuff that would jump out of nowhere and eff my world up

Those invisible Sinows. I hated them with a passion...

-Wayu

[Venomous_Fate]

Sinue-V2: That was awesome. I had to dig up my account info just to agree vehemently with you. I need that post-apocalyptic kind of dread back. It was what turned PSIII's story from forgettable to memorable. It made PSII that much more awesome. If I had to write some kind of commentary to sega about my feelings on the franchise, as someone who's played it on Genesis since my earliest gaming days, I would paraphrase the shit outta that post.

I'll always be willing to drop in on the PS series, just in the hopes that they can get even close to the old storyline's greatness. Whether or not I'll stick around is another story. I would've stayed much longer with PSU had I not felt neglected as a NA PS2 player. The storyline nauseated me, though. Old school PS has a huge, huge place in my heart, and I'll always be a gamer because of those games.

[Robocop II]

Those invisible Sinows. I hated them with a passion...

-Wayu

My god I know. On normal they weren't to bad but hooly crap being level 42 on very hard while on my way to Gal Griphon was horrible!! 3 to 4 sinows at you at once disapearring then reapearing behind you then BAM!! I still struggle on Ultimate. Through the years of still playing the game I have yet to even complete Episode 1 or 2 on Ultimate. Kinda my goal while I am out at sea to do it.

[Corey Blue]

*triple sigh*

As it seems as if the combatants are willing to rip out each others throats and let their own throats be ripped out, I have nothing else to say.

Please, guys, don't turn this into the real end, as stated by the topic name. If we can't have constructive argument and can only have flames, strong words, personal attacks, and stubborn warriors determined to kill and only kill, I say we have the PSO2 forum area closed.

So long, good bye, and thanks for all the fish. Oh, make that dead fish, so no thanks.

-Wayu

Dont worry,I'm not out to start a war,and I dont think anyone here will get so pissed over each opinions,we all love the Phanasty Star franchise and we want it to be successful.(I made this thread to see who will be leaving if PSO2 turns out to be another failure.)Also can someone tell me why Sakai left PSO in the first place??:nono:

[Kion]

Sakai was the director for PSU and AoI. He then went on to produce PSP, PSZ, PSP2, PSP2i, and now PSO2. Is it just me, or is it that his involvement means more and more animafication of the series?

And Wayu, everyone is having a nice normal internet conversation. If anyone is pushing this topic off track it's you.

-Kion

[Corey Blue]

Sakai was the director for PSU and AoI. He then went on to produce PSP, PSZ, PSP2, PSP2i, and now PSO2. Is it just me, or is it that his involvement means more and more animafication of the series?

And Wayu, everyone is having a nice normal internet conversation. If anyone is pushing this topic off track it's you.

-Kion

He knows what we want,and he better not abandon us like that again.(We'll find out if he still loves working on PSO.)Nothing is worse then hating what you do.I dont think his involvement means more animfaction,since he did produce PSO.Hard to tell where this is headed.

[Kyrith_Ranger_Pso]

It's not going to play like PSO, give it up man.

That doesn't really mean it's a BAD thing though... I mean, the ideas they've been implementing in the past few Phantasy Star games are cool and refreshing. I'm talking about Chains, Dodge-rolling/Blocking, Photon Arts......

I don't know why so many of you hate PSU so much. I mean.... I played PSO on the Dreamcast, then Gamecube, then BlueBurst.... Then when I switched to PSU, yeah there were quite a few problems(ESPECIALLY in the first few months of its release) and I even like PSO better than it, but I don't utterly despise it either. :/ There were a number of things I found very refreshing about it.

And I don't know why so many are complaining about its anime style. The Phantasy Star series has always been animu-ish. -_-

gameplay wise, i liked PAs and dodge roll pretty well, what i really want is the ability to customize your controls like you could in PSO and PSZ.

[Lunariancrystal]

I was never personally a fan of the photon arts in PSU/PSP series. I thought it made the game somewhat OP and a little too flashy for me. I think keeping the game as basic as it was in PSO would be just fine.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I could honestly care less if they decided to use the same engine from PSO into PSO2. Same graphics, same palette, same techniques, same races, same jobs, etc. Maybe a few minor additions: Techs up to Lv50...and tons of new weapons...and of course a continuation of the PSO storyline. The funny thing is, I bet every single one of you PSO vets would play PSO2 if it was the same graphics/engine as PSO. Like: PSO Ep5 or something. You would all play it - I know I would...Hell yeah!!! -Are graphics really all that important?

Seeing new levels added from EP124...like, new levels would be the selling point for me. I mean...You can't go wrong with something that was successful once before. I could really care less about updated graphics. Graphics don't really make the game...It's all about how the game plays. I mean...its like comparing Super Metroid to Metroid Fusion. They used the same engine and it kicked ass.

[Corey Blue]

I was never personally a fan of the photon arts in PSU/PSP series. I thought it made the game somewhat OP and a little too flashy for me. I think keeping the game as basic as it was in PSO would be just fine.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I could honestly care less if they decided to use the same engine from PSO into PSO2. Same graphics, same palette, same techniques, same races, same jobs, etc. Maybe a few minor additions: Techs up to Lv50...and tons of new weapons...and of course a continuation of the PSO storyline. The funny thing is, I bet every single one of you PSO vets would play PSO2 if it was the same graphics/engine as PSO. Like: PSO Ep5 or something. You would all play it - I know I would...Hell yeah!!! -Are graphics really all that important?

Seeing new levels added from EP124...like, new levels would be the selling point for me. I mean...You can't go wrong with something that was successful once before. I could really care less about updated graphics. Graphics don't really make the game...It's all about how the game plays. I mean...its like comparing Super Metroid to Metroid Fusion. They used the same engine and it kicked ass.

Updated graphics from the same engine of course, not the old graphics noo we want to advance,move forward,it dont have to Crysis graphics.That one,two,three timing,I really dont like it anymore,they could use upgraded version of PSU's combat,which is a plus.They could put a crap load of more content in the game,such as mini games and more dungeon interaction.

[Robocop II]

Updated graphics from the same engine of course, not the old graphics noo we want to advance,move forward,it dont have to Crysis graphics.That one,two,three timing,I really dont like it anymore,they could use upgraded version of PSU's combat,which is a plus.They could put a crap load of more content in the game,such as mini games and more dungeon interaction.

What I am afraid of though is that if you get rid of that 1, 2, 3 system and let you slash away, it just makes it into some boring hack and slash game...well, then again I suppose that is almost the same as the 1, 2, 3 system just faster. I don't really know what it is I would even want if they changed the way you fight on the game. I am pretty content with the system they had. Honestly I could live if they didn't put the Photon Arts in the game. I didn't mind them but it wouldn't affect me in the slightest because I played the past title and lived without it.

[BIG OLAF]

I think that PSU's enemy AI was a large part of Photon Arts feeling "overpowered". I mean, the enemy AI was borderline retarded. I think if Sega would make a good majority of the enemies in PSO2 actually quick, powerful, intelligent, and challenging, Photon Arts would become very useful (but they would still need to not make them so "spammy", per se. Maybe via PSP2's PP bar-type feature). Also, by making the enemies tougher in such a way, it would make PSO's old-timey "1-2-3" combat obsolete, which is fine with me.

[Wayu]

Looking back on yesterday's posts I don't think I made much sense, my mind being screwed over by the horror known as AP Biology. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I think the 1-3-4 system sort of exists in PSU but not really (timing the...timed hits?). That being said, though, I didn't like the linking of only one Photon Art to one striking weapon, and the linking of Techniques to a single rod/wand/madoog. Maybe the old controller-button configuration could return, linking certain PAs instead of 'Special/Strong Attack'?

-Wayu

[DuRaL]

Speaking of combat, personally i liked PSO's timed combat and would like to see it have a comeback, maybe in an updated way..
PSU did have timed attacks since AotI, but it wasn't the same. PSU's principle was to delay your attack as long as possible, which made the combat feel slower. Whereas in PSO, the main reason for timed attacks was to cancel enemy attacks. And you needed different timing for different monsters. To cancel the attack of a Sinowa for example, you had to be damn quick, it was really challenging to do so, but it was possible:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pfKVkjZQeA&feature=related

This, plus the fact that your 2nd and 3rd hit had a lower chance of missing added a lot of depth to the combat that PSU was missing imo..
Then again, one of the main reasons why it was impossible to cancel enemy attacks in PSU was that the damage was calculated by the server, and the blow-back didn't occur until 1-2 seconds after your actual attack >_> I hope they won't do this again....

[Corey Blue]

What I am afraid of though is that if you get rid of that 1, 2, 3 system and let you slash away, it just makes it into some boring hack and slash game...well, then again I suppose that is almost the same as the 1, 2, 3 system just faster. I don't really know what it is I would even want if they changed the way you fight on the game. I am pretty content with the system they had. Honestly I could live if they didn't put the Photon Arts in the game. I didn't mind them but it wouldn't affect me in the slightest because I played the past title and lived without it.

If they can some how improve the combat without using PSU's method then fine,but I doubt there just going to throw it away,but you never know.^^;

[Lunariancrystal]

Olaf makes a really good point. I never thought about it that way.

You go from PSO...which puts the players at the monsters level almost (Basic attacks/techs). Then you got PSU/PSP where the monsters are virtually the same...however this time you got PCs with super photon arts that beat the living hell out of the monsters. I think if they boosted the enemy AI by having its own form of abilities/photon arts -- where, in this case, you could utilize the infamous 'dodge' that a lot of people don't like, that it could work out nicely.

[paracelsus]

I've been playing PSU story mode as of late, and have been trying to think of a good controller scheme that would fuse PSO & PSU controls. PSU had timed attacks when it first came out like PSO, but you had to watch your attack animations to know when to do your next attack. If you spammed the attack button you got 3 normal attacks, but if you waited for the animation to just about end you got heavy attacks. Heavy attacks just didn't really give much of a damage bonus like PSO. I like the PP bar on weapons, but I do miss having a normal attack on a gun. Also I wish PP would continue to regenerate on a weapon even if it's not currently equipped, but is on the Quick/Action Palette. I'd had loved to be able to add a Tech to other weapons too, and to have the option to place a single hand weapon in either the left or right hand. thus allowing more weapon combination. Sadly for a nice fusion PSO2 would need to have many databases to keep track of every weapon's set-ups, and maybe turn Dodge Roll & Block into attachments like Dodge Roll is in PSZ.

[Kion]

PSP2 has a system where PP is tied to your character rather than the weapon. Basically you use PP every time you use a PA and have to wait for it to recharge if you spam it too much... It's kind of a sucky system.
Personally I liked PSU's game play mechanics a lot. You had a lot of choices, combinations and team work tied into status effects, knock backs, knock ups and traps. Over all I think anything can really work well, it's more a matter of pacing.

[Wayu]

Well, the character-tied PP system was kinda meant to make PAs less spammable. And then there was the Chain system that basically removed ATP/TP from the equation...I just wish dodging didn't consume PP.

Other than that I think it's up to how SEGA and if they can smoothly integrate the best of...however many worlds we have.

-Wayu

[paracelsus]

My thought is what if PSU, PSU AotI, PSP, PSP2, & PSPi2 are all test runs on different Idea's in an attempt figure out which ones worked and where they failed so when they make PSO2 they had what they wanted?

[Wayu]

It's always possible. When you phrase it like that, SEGA better had take the best out of those games you mentioned. Oh, and you forgot PSO in there as well; can't have a sequel without the original (is it a sequel?).

EDIT: Nevermind, scratch the PSO part.

-Wayu

[paracelsus]

Also from how I've been playing I only spam PA's because my Normal Attacks are
not fast enough.
don't deal enough damage
a gun attack
a tech attack

Maybe the combo system in other games helped fix that problem, but if not then they need to increase Normal Attack damage and decrease PA's damage. In PSO most of the Extra Attacks were more support based and a few elements with crappy ATA and ATP normally only dealing half as much as a Normal Attack. Only the sacrifice Extra Attacks did more damage than Heavy Attacks.

[Wayu]

Para, have you played PSPo2? If not, you may want to check it out to see how you like that. Spamming PAs only does small amounts of damage in a small time period.

-Wayu

[paracelsus]

I have friend with PSP2, I have a character on there but I haven't really played it much. I'm trying to get a feel for all the games so PSP2 will be on my list.

[Wayu]

PSPo2's combat system appeals to me the most. However, I still think it needs improvement and debugging. If PSO2 took this combat system, corrected its bugs and improved its damage recognition I'd think we'd have a solid combat system at the very least.

Oh, and if SEGA removed the limitation of 1-on-1 PA/weapon linking, that would be nice.

-Wayu

[paracelsus]

When I have my Idea for a control set up written out I'll send you a copy.

[Kent]

You know, I think I'd really like to see photon arts/skills be situational attacks, rather than a button you press for more damage.

Granted, some of them could be designed to hit heavily, but I think a fair drawback to that would be low accuracy (which, attacks from behind being unable to miss is a good thing that I wouldn't mind returning) or a lot of upswing/follow-through to make it a bit unwieldy, and something you generally aren't going to be using in direct combat - that is, something that can be devastating, but requires a proper opening in order to reliably execute it.

Things like sweeping attacks, or something that will knock an enemy off-balance, or launch enemies into the air are all fine ideas for actions in combat, but the problem comes in when they're things people just use for the sake of using them - rather than using them for their tactical applications. This is part of why PSP2's system for PP (as a low-capacity, fast-regenerating meter) was a good change for that series, but could easily make sense for a new game, if it were to simply apply to any sort of physical actions that take place, such as using skills, dodge-rolling, or perhaps manual defense. TP, of course, as a separate resource for techniques... Is probably a good idea.

Of course, looking back at what PSU and its derivatives had in the way of skills for melee weapons, there's kind of a pattern in the icons used: There are a few different icons that seem almost as if they're "categories" of PAs for melee weapons - so what if you simply mapped these skill buttons to your action palette somewhere, and had access to three different skills for any weapon you equip (and therefore, you would never actually equip anything to a weapon itself), all of which had situational uses? I think something like that may work out well. Perhaps an advantage to playing as a Hunter could be an additional one of these they're able to use.

[Ziggurat1986]

I would not mind if PSO2 did turn out to adopt most of the PSP2 or PSP2 infinity characteristics so long as the music returns to the way it was in PSO, mags regain there original function ( let's face it people, mags have become completely useless in PSP2), and force techniques are returned to there original function perhaps with the option of equipping the ability to rods and wands for added damage. (This being so that rods and wands aren't as useless as they were pre PSU)

As far as the character design goes, I'm satisfied now. Thanks to PSP2 the bubbly character look is now optional.