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SolarFlare
Dec 3, 2010, 01:51 PM
Please understand this is not do you think they should be in the game, it's do you WANT them in the game.

Ok I am reading from a lot of people that there needs to be Beasts in PSO2 and that if there isn't the claim is it will be a flop cause of it. But I really want to know if people really care for Beasts as much as the Beast fans claim every one does.

paracelsus
Dec 3, 2010, 02:00 PM
I see no real harm in including Beasts. I've never played a PSU based game but I could see the benifits of having a 4th race, as well as the Vanguard class and the other special classes.

Corey Blue
Dec 3, 2010, 02:15 PM
As long as it's just beast.I cant see dumans in there too,to many races.

Akaimizu
Dec 3, 2010, 02:50 PM
Settler: "Alright. We'll give some room for the Beasts, but we don't want the Irish!"

Sheriff: "No deal"

Settler: "Oh Prarie *(&*. Ok. Everybody!"

^ Sorry, but this topic really made me think of this famous movie that I almost quoted word for word, but will avoid it due to a false sense of keeping away from copyright infringement.

To a certain degree, I almost want the races to initially go back to the basics. Nothing against beasts, per se, but only because it'll help them concentrate better on balance and tight gameplay. They should take a page from AM2. That and the kind of idea (or fighter's mantra) that AM2 delivered in their Virtua Fighter series. Before you start learning a bunch of moves, it's best to be a master at doing a few moves. Once something is truly solid, then you work on expansion. Throwing in Beasts, ala. PSU, was an issue because they just added more without thinking first about their game systems. Thus why it was hard for them to balance them the way they had it down on paper. Their game engine was just not really ready for them, and thus couldn't compartmentalize their strengths into just the classes they wanted them to best at.

Trivializing techs to 10-level increments and simplifying the variance in Support techs (including a lack of contention based on Buff/Debuff level against another buff or debuff) also kept things a little too simple to make needed adjustments. My honest opinion isn't Yes or No. More like.......Later.

•Col•
Dec 3, 2010, 03:00 PM
Uh... I created a thread asking how people feel about Beasts and if they think they should be in PSO2..... Didn't think a poll would be necessary..... <_<

r00tabaga
Dec 3, 2010, 04:40 PM
Uh... I created a thread asking how people feel about Beasts and if they think they should be in PSO2..... Didn't think a poll would be necessary..... <_<

Did you copyright it?

r00tabaga
Dec 3, 2010, 04:52 PM
All in all, I am a PSO player 1st and foremost...however...I enjoy Beasts in my PSPo2 and really want the two games seperated as much as possible.
Beasts + PSO2 = n o

MAXrobo
Dec 3, 2010, 05:16 PM
I would like to see beasts in PSO2. I have played both PSO and PSU for a long time and iv gotten to like the veriety of having beasts around. make the population just that muh more diverse

BIG OLAF
Dec 3, 2010, 05:21 PM
Yes, I do. A large part of Phantasy Star games, for me, is making the character (customization), and Beast girls look the best to me, so I'd like to see them in PSO2. That, and it's fun being a tank character and doing incredible amounts of damage. Also, Nanoblasts were cool, but could use some improvements, especially in the damage department.

Oh, and since PSU was my first (and favorite, barring PSP2) Phantasy Star game, I think it would feel too weird for me to be playing without Beasts.

Seth Astra
Dec 3, 2010, 05:42 PM
I would prefer them not to be in PSO2. Same reason I don't like having more than HU/RA/FO as classes. The 3 race and 3 class system creates a roll for each race/class combo. But that's just me. If anyone wants, I will explain this in more detail, again.

•Col•
Dec 3, 2010, 05:47 PM
Did you copyright it?

Err... Is this a joke? o.o

It's usually a rule not to make new topics if there is already one existing that is about the same subject... But oh well. This topic is moreso just for a poll, I guess. *votes*

Lance813
Dec 3, 2010, 06:11 PM
Did you copyright it?

Really..?

Anyways, I hope I don't see beasts in PSO2. How cool is doing "lolnumbarz" if the rest of the content sucks?

Oh wait... We already saw that in a game. :wacko:

SolarFlare
Dec 3, 2010, 09:15 PM
Uh... I created a thread asking how people feel about Beasts and if they think they should be in PSO2..... Didn't think a poll would be necessary..... <_<

I do read and enjoy the topic you started but I wanted to know specifically in numbers just how many people do or do not want Beasts to be in the game, and not so much the reasons why or why not to be. Not that the sharing of opinions is not welcomed here or uninteresting , I myself am just interested more so in the numbers.

Lunariancrystal
Dec 4, 2010, 04:03 AM
The only thing good about beasts are the female beasts: Hot. Otherwise I don't really care about it.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:06 AM
Flipped a coin, as I don't really see how inclusion or exclusion would affect the outcome rather than to lose or gain fans from PSU.

It came out heads. Yes.

-Wayu

BIG OLAF
Dec 4, 2010, 04:14 AM
The only thing good about beasts are the female beasts: Hot.

Oh, that's right! :D

Now people can't just call me "that one creepy guy". We can make a club out of it. They are pretty damn good-looking. Way better than Humans/ Newmans and their monkey faces. CAST girls don't look too bad, either, but Beasts are the best.

*cough*....'kay, I think I'm done.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:18 AM
^

Oi. Newman fan over here. *points paint ball gun at face*

Also, lol at the hot female Beast comment.

-Wayu

BIG OLAF
Dec 4, 2010, 04:25 AM
Oi. Newman fan over here. *points paint ball gun at face*

Also, lol at the hot female Beast comment.

Is there a problem with female Beasts being "hot"? :-x

Personally, I think it's the little noses.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:27 AM
They're...beastly?

JK.

I guess it may be personal preference to whether or not one likes the Asian or more Caucasian appearance. You can adjust nose size, I think...

-Wayu

Sinue_v2
Dec 4, 2010, 04:40 AM
No.

I just spent a considerable chunk of time in another thread stressing the point that, even if we can't technically say we're not alone out there just yet, the probability of life existing elsewhere in the universe is almost certain. The probability of life being an extremely common phenomena in the universe is almost certain.

So why the hell would I want to play an RPG that takes place out in space where the ETs are at, only to find there are no goddamned damned aliens anywhere to be found. Beasts and Numen are just different races of stock humans which accentuated attributes and funny ears.

You could give every pregnant Beast mother in Gurhal a bit of Folic Acid during her term and end up wiping the entire beast race off the face of Gurhal within a generation. They'd just be normal David Banner varieties of the Incredible Hulk.

I would like to see a return of Motavians and Dezolians... but they wouldn't make any sense at all in a PSO game, so I'm not going to be terribly hurt if they don't make an appearance. Still, I would like to see SOME kind of alien life forms out in space sometime. At least some semblance of at least Star Trek caliber make-up would be nice.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:42 AM
Still, I would like to see SOME kind of alien life forms out in space sometime. At least some semblance of at least Star Trek caliber make-up would be nice.

D-Cell life forms and/or SEED-forms? Do those fit the bill (I'm honestly not too sure, haven't watched Star Trek)?

-Wayu

Dongra
Dec 4, 2010, 04:43 AM
Well, most of the enemies encountered in PSO and PSU are aliens. If you are looking for an alien race to be a playable class then I think I understand what you are getting at.

Lunariancrystal
Dec 4, 2010, 04:44 AM
In all honestly I don't really think it'd really effect the playstyle of the game as you get to choose what you want to be. I mean...if you don't like beasts just chose to not play it.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:45 AM
Oh. As in you PLAY as an alien.

Now that I think of it, that would be nice.

Lol at the thought of a Hydralisk running around the Beach area in Ep. II.

-Wayu

Skye-Fox713
Dec 4, 2010, 04:50 AM
Maya: "I've always pondered why best women are the best"
JOE: "..."
Maya: "Well it appears that we'll just have to preform some testing to come to a deduction"

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/Ghost713/Maya_JOEcopy-01.jpg

Y'all had to make me go dig this image up, but I suppose we'll never really know why "beast women are the best"

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 04:53 AM
.......

Uh, someone mind explaining what I just saw in the above post?

-Wayu

Justyn_Darkcrest
Dec 4, 2010, 04:54 AM
I mean...if you don't like beasts just chose to not play it.

^This is exactly why I would like to see them in the game, more variety isn't always a bad thing plus it could potentially bring more people to the game.

I've never cared to play beasts myself, but I know people who wouldn't even touch PSO2 if they weren't included, so yes. I'd like to see them included.

Dongra
Dec 4, 2010, 05:00 AM
I don't really see how losing beasts could cause such an uproar. I mean humans, newmans, and beasts have such similar appearances, and the only race that stands out in the looks department are casts. I guess if beasts were removed they might lose their furry fanbase.

Skye-Fox713
Dec 4, 2010, 05:16 AM
Oh, that's right! :D

Beasts are the best.

*cough*....'kay, I think I'm done.

Reason for posting ^ ^ ^


.......

Uh, someone mind explaining what I just saw in the above post?

-Wayu

That image was basicaly inspired by Laia's qote of "Beast women are the Best" from AoI's story mode if you recall it was from the first mission. And well a lot of pso-worlder's sorrta took off with it for a bit.

It was sorrta one of the "your mom" kinda jokes that went around pso-world for a bit. I'm really surprised you didn't get the reference behind it.


Because we all know "Beast women are the Best ________", and well you can fill in the blank with whatever you want but if I recall the most proffered fill in was "in bed".

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 05:22 AM
^

I wasn't around then lol.

-Wayu

Sinue_v2
Dec 4, 2010, 05:44 AM
I don't really see how losing beasts could cause such an uproar.

It wouldn't. Whatever waves are being caused or are being prophesied to ripple outwards later if Beasts aren't included is mere delusion brought on by a sense of entitlement by "established fans" and lack of relative perspective caused by frequenting Phantasy Star Universe community boards where already established Phantasy Star Universe players congregate.

I don't see where the OP is reading that "lots of people" will rage quit the series causing the game to flop if they don't bring Beasts back. Beasts are total non-issue in regards to PSO2's potential for success or failure. Seriously, when the game launches, the amount of new players picking the game up on whim or after reading a good review is going to absolute dwarf the current PSU userbase. Whatever concerns and screams of protest arise will be lost in a sea of noob chatter, of which none will be about the "unforgivable lack of beasts" with whom they are not familiar with and couldn't care less about.

This isn't World of Warcraft we're talking about here, where the game will need time to generate the momentum and numbers comparable to it's predecessor. The entirety of the US/Euro userbase, even if they hadn't shut down the PC/PS2 servers, won't even come close to PSO2's opening day sales.

Skye-Fox713
Dec 4, 2010, 05:44 AM
Oh, lol well know you know, "And knowing is half the battle" :p


[SPOILER-BOX]It wouldn't. Whatever waves are being caused or are being prophesied to ripple outwards later if Beasts aren't included is mere delusion brought on by a sense of entitlement by "established fans" and lack of relative perspective caused by frequenting Phantasy Star Universe community boards where already established Phantasy Star Universe players congregate.

I don't see where the OP is reading that "lots of people" will rage quit the series causing the game to flop if they don't bring Beasts back. Beasts are total non-issue in regards to PSO2's potential for success or failure. Seriously, when the game launches, the amount of new players picking the game up on whim or after reading a good review is going to absolute dwarf the current PSU userbase. Whatever concerns and screams of protest arise will be lost in a sea of noob chatter, of which none will be about the "unforgivable lack of beasts" with whom they are not familiar with and couldn't care less about.

This isn't World of Warcraft we're talking about here, where the game will need time to generate the momentum and numbers comparable to it's predecessor. The entirety of the US/Euro userbase, even if they hadn't shut down the PC/PS2 servers, won't even come close to PSO2's opening day sales.[/SPOILER-BOX]

For Me I would like Beasts to be included in PSO2 because of the character that I have created through fan fiction of the Chronicles of the Black Hand with Shadow. However if they do not have beasts in PSO2 I will simply be very disappointed but by no means dose that mean I will refuse to play the game. I will simply be very disappointed and enjoy the game to its fullest as a class that is closets to the RAmarl class of PSO ep.1&2. And hope to god that they hit the head on the nail with the mood, atmosphere, music, etc like how PSO did for me and try to used what little good elements of PSU had in PSO2.

But you are also correct about Beasts being a non-issue on PSO2's potential for success as a game where if it turns out like PSU did then there was no point in including beasts. Although I think it will be that much better of a game if they are able to include beasts and have the same success as PSO did.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 05:48 AM
Yeah, and now I know what that picture is about.

Losing Beasts would do little more than make this easier for SEGA and hard on those who were fans of them. That's it, really...we also have to take into consideration whether or not SEGA is looking at the US/EU consumers or the JP consumers. It's most likely the latter, so we better be prepared to have some disappointments.

Also, Skye, you misspelled 'Chronicles' in your signature picture lol.

-Wayu

Skye-Fox713
Dec 4, 2010, 06:02 AM
Ehh, i'm a horrible speller, but that's why there's a spell check. but unfortunately photoshop doesn't have one ^^ :-P

Sinue_v2
Dec 4, 2010, 06:17 AM
For Me I would like Beasts to be included in PSO2 because of the character that I have created through fan fiction of the Chronicles of the Black Hand with Shadow. However if they do not have beasts in PSO2 I will simply be very disappointed but by no means dose that mean I will refuse to play the game.

Tell ya what, I'll compromise. You can have Beasts in PSO2 if I can have my Motavians. That way we can both piss off the PSO only purists simutaniously. Deal?

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/compendium/dorin.jpg

Skye-Fox713
Dec 4, 2010, 06:23 AM
Tell ya what, I'll compromise. You can have Beasts in PSO2 if I can have my Motavians. That way we can both piss off the PSO only purists while we're at it. Deal?

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/compendium/dorin.jpg

Deal.

Wayu
Dec 4, 2010, 07:10 AM
You're going to have to convince SEGA one way or the other, first ^^;.

-Wayu

GeoSword
Dec 4, 2010, 07:56 AM
I thought Beastmen/women were based off from the Motavian race? I remember reading something along those lines on an old EGM magazine interview with Yuji Naka I read just a few days ago.

Padium
Dec 9, 2010, 09:58 AM
If you can convince me that beasts exist in the PSO2 universe, without being a fanservice insert, I'd gladly have them. Just please don't insert them as fanservice, there are better parts of the game for that, such as weapons and armor, as well as non canon quests. If you can't prove that beasts are a part of the PSO universe, implement them as a set of armor.

Anyways, I'm all for having them, but keep the canon content (races, story, etc) canon.

Darki
Dec 9, 2010, 10:59 AM
To answer the topic, yes. I'd love to se beasts in the new game because they're my favorite race. I like the idea of humans being the "all rounded", beasts the fighters and CASTs the gunners instead of having CASTs as the "best fighters" like on PSO. I think humans are meant to be the balanced race, and in that case, there has to be a fourth race to correspond one of the three basic classes along with Newmans and CASTs.


If you can convince me that beasts exist in the PSO2 universe, without being a fanservice insert, I'd gladly have them. Just please don't insert them as fanservice, there are better parts of the game for that, such as weapons and armor, as well as non canon quests. If you can't prove that beasts are a part of the PSO universe, implement them as a set of armor.

Anyways, I'm all for having them, but keep the canon content (races, story, etc) canon.

I don't see why they wouldn't fit in the "canon". Beasts are just like newmans, they're genetic-engineered humans made to be slaves, same way that newmans (or numans) were created to act as a disposable soldiers. Same way they created numans they can create beasts. Simple as that. For me the reason they used in the PSU game was very possible and realistic and could fit perfectly in any other PSO game.

CAMPSO
Dec 9, 2010, 01:16 PM
I've thought about beast being in PSO2. I guess i wouldn't mind but then again i wonder if they would put nanoblast in the game?

Darki
Dec 9, 2010, 03:17 PM
They could do like in PSPo2I, or something similar. I liked ol' Photon Blasts but the idea of a sort of "finisher" that is different depending on the race looks nice to me, not only talking about beasts.

But again, PBs were something related to the mag, and in PSU the "blast" is supposed to be something natural to each race, so let's see what would they do.

Blizz3112
Dec 9, 2010, 04:42 PM
I would be even better if you could use a certain race, but that you could still choose certain abilities/boost from a large list, so that a race would still work differently every time...

Beasts should be added, same with some new races that they might have the time to make... Genetically altered beings can still be made in flavorable ways (for instance, plant-type/elemental-type beings or something simpler).

paracelsus
Dec 9, 2010, 05:18 PM
Well if Nanoblast became a photon blast it could still work the same way. it would just need a check clause for character race.

JazzJaeger
Dec 9, 2010, 11:22 PM
4th race? yes. beasts? not really after how nerfed their beasts forms became in PSP2, thanks sega. but honestly I would like a new race or two that were BRAND new, otherwise it just becomes another PSU game

BIG OLAF
Dec 9, 2010, 11:25 PM
honestly I would like a new race or two that were BRAND new, otherwise it just becomes another PSU game

So, if Beasts were included, that would automatically make PSO2 the same thing as PSU? I don't follow that logic.

Chaobo99
Dec 9, 2010, 11:42 PM
So, if Beasts were included, that would automatically make PSO2 the same thing as PSU? I don't follow that logic.

^
Yea, what's the big deal in adding beasts? Infact, what's the big deal in adding 5 more races? Heh, if they balance it right I could care less. The beast, cast, newman, human thing works because then you have a race for each class: Hunter, Ranger, Force, Hybrid.

Darki
Dec 10, 2010, 03:07 AM
^ That's how I see it too.

But maybe we could see two "factions" in the game (if the "prediction" of the plot involving Gurhal, Algol systems and Ragol/Coral are true from the logo art), like, Guardians-like from Gurhal System, with beasts as fighters and TECH-user CASTs, and in the other hand, Ragolian Hunters, with their version of CASTs and no beasts.

About the Algol part I just don't know, someone who know about classic saga should "fine tune" my theory.

Akaimizu
Dec 10, 2010, 10:13 AM
"Yea, what's the big deal in adding beasts? Infact, what's the big deal in adding 5 more races? Heh, if they balance it right I could care less. The beast, cast, newman, human thing works because then you have a race for each class: Hunter, Ranger, Force, Hybrid."

^ Only if they do it right. That's the big question. Much of the posts aren't as much about having them or not, it is basically commenting on the many (focus on many) times Sonic Team has screwed up the balance just trying to do that. If, for once, they can actually balance in a Strength-based class, this will differ. PSP2 did come the closest to getting it right, though. However, with a brand new different system than PSP2, we can only cross our fingers on this one.

Really. They almost always start with a miscalculation which makes strength rule over all, and then it takes them like 10 years to figure out how to keep it from being the rule-all category for classes they never intended to do that with. Hybrids are often the toughest things in the world for Sega to balance. One way or another. To make humans the best at it, is another stickler that really has alluded them. So I almost doubt Sega will pull out the *hybrid best* class without it being the same race that's *best* at another class. I can only hope. But again, Sonic Team isn't Blizzard. They may have learned a lot, but after so many years since PSO launched, it's easy to be a little bit skeptical.

Thus why I say they should take a bit more baby steps, even with what seemed to be a good plan for them. They rush into balance they've typically failed at, then it'll be tough for them to back out of it.

Blizz3112
Dec 10, 2010, 10:39 AM
Maybe they make Evil-type Races, so that you can also fight for the darkness... That would be pretty neat if they did... :-D

Wayu
Dec 10, 2010, 11:45 AM
They'd have to make a whole new story option for that, then...SEGA probably won't do that.

-Wayu

Darki
Dec 10, 2010, 01:01 PM
I don't think balancing the stuff should be THAT difficult... It's ST what makes us believe so. One problem that I've seen in PSU and many other games is that they keep considering ranged and melee damage the same, and in PSU they take that even further, using ATP as source of both damages. That way they just make their work balancing stuff MORE complicated unnecesarily, in this case for example, making beasts and CASTs difficult to balance in their "main" classes.

If they just made melee to be modified by ATP and reduced by DFP (as it is), ranged modified by ATA and reduced by EVP, they could separate completely all three sources of damage (as tech damage is done already "well" in this matter).

Then is just numb4rz. Pick a beast hunter, a CAST ranger, a newman force, and give them similar DPS, then pick a CAST fighter, a newman gunner and a human force and give them similar DPS, lower than the previous combinations. Then pick a human fighter, a human gunner and a beast force and give them again, similar DPS but lower than previous. Repeat with the remaining ones (Newman fighter, beast gunner, CAST force).

Once you got that, make any modification you want, but the basics should be that. Of course there will always be differences, points of view and preferences but that's a start.

In short, PS saga is so much drama.

Sinue_v2
Dec 10, 2010, 01:32 PM
One of the biggest problems I see in trying to bring over the Beast race to PSO2 is simply that of finding a legitimate reason for them to be there, and a intuitive means by which to explain their existence without coming off as some glaringly obvious and extraneous tack-on. More is not always better, and even if the addition would not directly do harm to the game... that doesn't imply that adding them in could only make the game better. Perfection is achieved (as the saying goes), not where there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

Also, how do you think most people who want Beasts in PSO2 would react if Sega granted that concession, but removed the ability to Nanoblast in favor of a Photon Blast mechanic more in line with PSO in which all class or race combos have access to the pretty much the same special attack form and capacity? Will that be a deal-breaker for you? Even if they put Beasts in PSO2, there's no real reason why it should be a given that the nano-blast would necessarily have to come over with them. If they have a different genesis history than Gurhalian beasts... then you can explain it's absence by saying the beasts of P2/Ragol never had it to begin with. If PSO2 Beasts come from Gurhal, then (depending on how much time has passed since PSU) it can be explained by playing the "bred out" card. PSU's storyline already suggests that beasts are much weaker than they used to be, and that their human form was once the more temporary state to make them easier to subdue when not in the mines. By the start of PSU's story it was already muddied to the point where around 20~50% of Beasts in the system were incapable of using a NanoBlast in any capacity.

lostinseganet
Dec 10, 2010, 01:56 PM
I remember when the first drawings came out of pso 1 there was a duck man hybrid. Maybe it was the first rendition of a beast. I forgot what it was but I remember him. Any body else remember?

Akaimizu
Dec 10, 2010, 02:14 PM
There's some good story questions there. I also agree that if we have Beasts, they better arrive in a form and in a way that is perfectly explained why they are there. It also brings to question that if we did have Beasts, would they be anything like the Beasts from PSU? A lot of these things, mentioned above, may suggest that perhaps some alternative (or perhaps early) version of these guys would be what we get.

As for the other person. Yes. Balancing out the Strength-based races aren't exactly difficult. It still baffles me why Sonic Team seems to have such trouble with it. There's so many sources, particularly western ones, where they could get some good ideas before they already have coders finalizing the code. Now before people start saying, "Why not eastern sources?" Well, it's only because they are the folks that did it first and have long established systems learned from mistakes from further back in time. To not do so, is akin to avoiding any french sources (easily attained) for doing great french recipes.

I, myself, would've increased the different variables that governed statistics a bit. I would've gone a decent clip past where they went with it. Then again, it's only because of my familiarity of certain RPG systems where support abilities and hybrid functions have a lot of balancing in there. They really have to put more attention to the support-side of the Phantasy Star Coin. They have to figure out how to make not raw DPS work well in the big picture and the end game. If there's one thing even FF11 did right, is make it so that people *wanted* the white mage. And definitely more creatures in which the force (and in more statistical depth, the higher TP user) has the advantage in the mix.

Then maybe we can get to something that isn't. "Hey, I'm a beast. Hey, I'm a cast. And we rule this game."

PSP2's engine helped against the strength vs. accuracy stuff a bit, by switching bullets to a more accuracy-based damage modifier. A Major step in the right direction following that massive misstep done up until Phantasy Star Zero. (Cast Hunter vs. Cast Ranger anybody?)

PS. - Never saw the duck man hybrid, myself.

lostinseganet
Dec 10, 2010, 02:24 PM
Man i wish i could remember. It was a Deleted type like "HUmar & RAcast" ARRgg >_<. It never got past the drawing stages, but in the very beginning of pso it was talked about.

Randomness
Dec 10, 2010, 03:22 PM
If we keep humans as being the balanced race, then we can put casts as physically superior, beasts as accuracy/evasion superior, and newmans as the magically superior race. (Obviously, with losses in at least one other area)

MAXrobo
Dec 10, 2010, 04:28 PM
Maybe they make Evil-type Races, so that you can also fight for the darkness... That would be pretty neat if they did... :-D

you could have the hunter and arkz factions from episode 3

Chaobo99
Dec 10, 2010, 05:36 PM
Maybe the "beast" race can just be a different rendition of humans. Humans in pso, like us, generally live in a more modernized society, with help from our "advanced" technology( hence the creation of casts).

"Beasts" on the other hand, could just be a group of humans that have evolved over time to endure the hardships of weather(maybe they could live on a rocky mountain and keep to themselves in a close-knit tribe-like fashion) and physical abuse(heavy lifting, constant travelling).

Padium
Dec 11, 2010, 12:52 PM
Forgetting about the actual story, etc, I wouldn't mind being a beast force. Battlemage anyone?

My fear isn't so much it not fitting into the current canon, its them just being available without a real reason behind it.


EDIT:

You can also make a variable for races that reduces their ability with one weapon type but not another, like slicers, the hunter weapon, are ranged, but swords are melee. Guns, bows, shots - all ranged. Gunblade? Ranged and melee.

So you could have race/classes have two types of ATP, but the difference is a hidden value. RATP and MATP, for ranged and melee attack power respectively. Problem solved with a simple fix. And with that, you can still have accuracy, defense, attack, and evasion do their respective jobs of ensuring hits, defending when hit, attacking powerfully, and evading. Partial evades would be nice, they could be called scratches/grazes/near misses/whatever, and be the opposite of a critical hit, cutting damage done in half before defense is taken into consideration.

Resolving an attack would first compare accuracy and evasion, roll for near miss/hit/crit and use that to modify attack power of the user's weapon type specific ATP (ranged or melee), that new number would then be thrown against the armor, with the armor absorbing a set amount, and possibly taking damage and needing repair (for a cash sink that PSU never had). Repairs could be based in the difficulty of repairing the armor, which is calculated by how damaged it is, and how complex the design is.

You've now got a system which handles a lot of things very nicely.

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 02:17 PM
I don't think you need to make a different stat for ranged weapons, ATA could do it perfectly, as in many other games (and I believe in PSPo2 it's that way how it goes). On the other hand I would try to get rid of the "evasion" as a stat when the game is supposed to be an action RPG, I would prefer the blocking function to be controllable (like a "block button") and EVP could be the stat that randomizes when the blocking should fail. If we can control the game to a point that we can dodge fireballs and monster slashes and hits, why shouldn't us be able to block willingly?

EVP could also be the stat that reduces ranged damage, if we consider the stats "natural" and not "armor". I mean, if the DFP is the "armor endurance" then is fine that the stat is used for both ranged and melee defense, but if DFP means "character endurance" no matter what you are, you can't endure a well-aimed shot. In any case, you would endure a shot if the shot doesn't touch a vital spot, and as EVP is the opposite of ATA I guess sounds logical to use it as the ranged defensive stat.

With that they could separate completely the affinities of races for each class, like making newmans to be able to be very good rangers without being as strong as CASTs or beasts, and you could make beasts be crap gunners even being very strong.

And, I don't think the reason for beasts existing in the game is something so tricky. SEGAC has good argument and story designers, my concern is that the game is balanced and the gameplay is not bad. There can be thousands and more reasons in the argument to "validate" their appearance in the game, specially when there will surely be newmans and CASTs, which are other "artificial" races created by humans. If they don't use the supposed connection between PSU and PSO to make beasts to come from Gurhal system, they can make up many different stories.

Kent
Dec 11, 2010, 05:23 PM
How much sense does EVP reducing ranged attack damage actually make though? Is there really a reason to make a difference between ranged and physical damage?

ATA affecting ranged weapon damage, I can understand. EVP reducing ranged damage taken seems... redundant, really. Why not just have EVP function as it has - a means of randomly reducing physical damage taken - but also add more to it than simply buffering the RNG? For example, a larger invulnerability window on the dodge roll action (this would need careful adjustments), a larger window of opportunity for executing counterattacks after a successful block, or perhaps, if manual-blocking is instated (which doesn't have to collide with its effect of randomly auto-blocking attacks), EVP could help increase how well you use your shield (such as, if your shield can only block a certain amount of damage in a certain amount of time from manual blocks, EVP could have a bonus to the efficiency of this) or perhaps the timing window if there's some sort of bonus to executing a well-timed block. Perhaps it could also give bonus elemental damage resistance when you're defending against techniques (though not full negation), or even have random defense able to happen against them.

The idea is to differentiate EVP itself from the other defensive stats of DFP and elemental resistances. That is, EVP is something that's more active of a defense, whereas DFP just reduces physical damage taken whenever you actually take it, and resistances reduce elemental damage. Trying to lump it in as just another passive damage-reducer seems like it's just plain unnecessary, on top of making the stat itself "boring." There's something that can be said for having different stats functionally-different, rather than "it's damage/defense, except for guns."

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 08:12 PM
I find interesting your point of view as stats being "funny", when they're just numb4rz after all. What has to be "funny" and not "boring" is the gameplay itself, in my opinion.

There's a need to make a difference between ranged and melee damage because of a very simple reason: balance. When this is not done, we find ourselves in the situation where the strongest fighter will also be the strongest ranger. Then you have two options: First one is to do impossible maths to fine-tune the characters ATP and ATA so it misses enough to render it to a second position, but the way the game is made till now, that would render it useless as a fighter too. Rangers by default have the highest ATA, so if a beast will miss enough to be "useless" being a ranger, how much will it miss as a fighter? So, or either make Beasts very strong and accurate enough to be good fighters, which would naturally put them over CASTs as rangers, or make them very strong and innacuratw, which would make CASTs better fighters as they wouldn't waste damage doing "zeroes". Second option is to separate the damage sources so each one can be the best at it's own job without fucking up other stuff involuntarily in the way. Easy thing.

Another thing is, I suggested EVP as a stat for modding ranged defense and not for raw "random blocking" for the simple and sole idea of the game being a damn Action RPG. Same way that you can't "dodge" a fireball without actually dodging it for real, this is, running away from it manually, why do we need a stat to make other stuff to be "dodged"? I find much more interesting to add features in the game to dodge manually, such as blocking or rolling and other movements, than only a stuff that makes you do a "zero" avobe your head by the grace of God. Instead of putting the chance on randomly blocking attacks out of the air and cutting 80% of my skill combos when I don't want, I think it would be more interesting to have it as the stat that rules the chance of a monster breaking your manual guard, and being able of NOT blocking when you don't fucking want to, something really annoying.

In this case, you could also make each race not only strong DEALING a specific type of damage, but also DEFENDING. So a race with high EVP will be able to resist ranged damage better, providing more possible strategic gameplay (such as "eating the bullets" yourself instead of your pal, the one with low EVP that will suffer more from it). At the moment we only have this with TECHs, as Newmans are good at both attacking and defending magic, but I really think expanding this concept to all sources of damage would make the game experience much richer. That, of course, would work if they made deffensive stats actually interesting, and not as half-assed as they're now. If separating ranged defense from melee defense doesn't make sense, why does blocking a stone (diga) with MST make sense, when even being magic the thing is just a stone flying to my head?

But anyways, don't sweat if you don't like my idea, because this is SEGAC what we're talking about, so probably it will be the way you say, as it has been done till now. Mine's a dead idea.

Seth Astra
Dec 11, 2010, 08:30 PM
A. PSPo2 did both, and it was good (except for EVP being totally broken).

B. Although I liked it at first, the EVP=ranged defense thing'd not make sense for one reason: casts. Seriously, how would robots logically have the WORST defense against bullets?

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 08:34 PM
Well, they could damn well make them now the highest EVP users. Didn't they make them go from no techs to techers (although crap ones) from PSO to PSU? Why couldn't they be now different in that too?

In the context that EVP were ranged defense, the situation would be completely different. The real "evasion" in the game would be the speed of your fingers to roll/move/block, not the number itself. The only thing that I don't see right in the game is that, why do I need to have stats that make me miss an enemy, when I actually gotta AIM manually? is not like the game is Ragnarök Online, where you click on the enemy and the character does the work, here you gotta do it yourself. So why do we need stats from a "click & destroy" type of MMO when PSO isn't that kind of game anyways?

Seth Astra
Dec 11, 2010, 08:45 PM
Ahem, now to rant about Newman stats. That would just be BAD for Newman. But, since you seem to have a lot of ideas, what would be the benefits of being a HUnewm?

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 08:51 PM
And what were the previous benefits? Not that they were very profitable before... If you're talking about their high EVP, that's just fine in PSU for a newman: have fun getting your PA's blocked all the time.

Newman hunters would have the highest TP and MST of all melee classes, so they could be good tanks for TECH-based enemies and also good killing those as they wouldn't "risk" their lives as much as someone with less MST (Of course we would be talking about a game balanced in a way that there would be a HUGE difference between having high or low a deffensive stat, not like now in PSU that is all crap'd). They would also be the best TECH users among the hunters, making them even better tanks due to their healing abilities.

For example.

Seth Astra
Dec 11, 2010, 08:57 PM
IDK... EVP was the main thing HUnewms had for them... Assuming you already had at least one HU, seems there'd be no reason to play HUnewm over FOnewm.

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 09:03 PM
Yeah but you're talking about PSO, not PSU, and this thread originally was about beasts, which made their first apperance in the later game. In PSU for example EVP is just a hindrance for any newman fighter unless you're an AT, I would say. It is a hindrance for my beast, for example. Also in PSO there weren't RAnewms, but in PSU newmans seem to have very nice accuracy, much better than beasts and better than humans, so changes between games are not so strange.

PSO was very "slow" combat, lacking fast skills and other functions... Look, I don't pretend to know everything or having an answer to all of this matter. But for me, it doesn't really make much sense to have stats such as ATA or EVP in an ACTION-RPG, in which in theory you should aim manually, you should dodge manually, you should block manually, etc.

And hey, I played HUnewearl not for her EVP but for her TECHs. Not everybody likes Hunewms and WTs for only healing or EVP, that for me is a good reason, at least. If they make next PSO's battle style more like PSU (I mean, with more dinamic moves and longer combos), "ol' EVP" is not a nice stat for fighters, at least from my experience. In the case stats were as I say, you wouldn't need to rely on a random chance to block, you could block manually, with the chance of getting your guard broken.

Monochrome
Dec 11, 2010, 09:09 PM
Somehow, I completely misread the title of this thread at first.

Either way, yes I want 'em..

Seth Astra
Dec 11, 2010, 09:09 PM
Yeah, and, BTW, I am not the tier obsessed guy I appear to be. I played HUnewm in PSZ and like it MORE than HUcast. However, most players think: DPS DPS DPS!!! And hunter techs (going from PSZ) mostly suck, save restated and the buffs, but then there's the fact that a FO does that better. But, I will shut up, since we are WAY off-topic.

Darki
Dec 11, 2010, 09:13 PM
yeah, sorry for getting carried away with this. ^^U

Anyways, my original point on beasts was simple, make them balanced or not make them, but the context or story twist that would include them, that's the least important part for me... PS games have all beautiful and original arguments, it's in their game mechanics where they suck. I'm sure they would find a reason that makes sense to include them if they decide to do.

Reksanden
Dec 11, 2010, 09:17 PM
Beasts in PSO2? Sure, why not. Doesn't matter to me, as I use CASTs for Hunters and Rangers, and Newmans for Forces.

lostinseganet
Dec 12, 2010, 10:29 AM
This is a coop game us versus the computer. No one will fight each other. so make each character as fun as possible. Don't worry about balance.

landman
Dec 12, 2010, 11:47 AM
I don't care if they are called Beasts or not, but I want the spiritual descendants of Nei and Rika, and that is what Beasts are, both Nei and Rika were the stronger characters in the party, using light weapons.

I did agree with HUnewearls, that was ok, I accepted FOnewms, even if I was angry for not having my Rune/Rutsu/Lutz human super mage (and FOmar was not comparable) but PSU newman are just space elves, thanks Beasts appeared as a different newman, with a different name.


In PSP2 Beasts have as much evasion as Newman.
In PSP2 evasion does not block your movement.

PSP2 Beasts the more similar race to what Nei and Rika were.


I remember when the first drawings came out of pso 1 there was a duck man hybrid. Maybe it was the first rendition of a beast. I forgot what it was but I remember him. Any body else remember?
It is in the Book of Hunters, and since it was more like a bird, the direct relation people made was that it was some kind of Motavian design. In the same Book of Hunters there is a design of Searren (Wren from PSIII), so in some stages of design they not only though on Motavians, but also relating PSO to PSIII ending/s, and this one is the most believed unofficial connection by fans.

What looked EXACTLY like a Beast was the HUnewm.

I'll try to make a shot of the bird guy and post it.

"En"
Dec 12, 2010, 02:16 PM
I'll be fine with Beasts in PSO2 under the assumption that...

A) There's a logical reason to have them exist in PSO's setting.
B) HUcast remains at the top of the ATP chain.
C) PSO2 has better difference between races than PSU's generic "X Race excels at Y Stat" system. Natural HP / TP recovery, status immunities, Trap vs Magic use, and extra material use worked well for PSO, I'd say, and their presence in PSZ gives me reason to believe that I won't be disappointed in PSO2.

BIG OLAF
Dec 12, 2010, 02:18 PM
I'll be fine with Beasts in PSO2 under the assumption that...
B) HUcast remains at the top of the ATP chain.


If Beasts are indeed in PSO2, this will most likely not be the case. They've been the ATP powerhouses for over four years, and I think they deserve to continue to be. Besides, Sega probably won't change that now.

"En"
Dec 12, 2010, 02:27 PM
If Beasts are indeed in PSO2, this will most likely not be the case. They've been the ATP powerhouses for over four years, and I think they deserve to continue to be. Besides, Sega probably won't change that now.

And if Beasts are in PSO2 as the "powerhouse" class, then I won't be fine with them. I'll acknowledge their existence, but I won't like it. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with that; everyone has their own preferences, so there's bound to be some people who dislike the same thing that most people like, and vice versa. If Beasts being in PSO2 is wildly popular, and them being the "powerful" class is met with equal opinion, then I'll just have to keep my mouth shut, and put up with it.

Darki
Dec 12, 2010, 02:30 PM
If HUcast were the ATP powerhouse then beasts should kick them from being also the best rangers. or else it wouldn't be fair. Anyways I think beasts are better "image" of a fighter than casts.

Dongra
Dec 12, 2010, 02:36 PM
HUcast had pretty bad ATA but that didn't exactly balance him out. In fact, both male casts had the worst ATA in their respective classes and they were still the strongest classes in the game.

"En"
Dec 12, 2010, 02:39 PM
If HUcast were the ATP powerhouse then beasts should kick them from being also the best rangers.

As something of a Cast Enthusiast, I completely agree. What balanced out the HUcast in 1&2 and Blue Burst was that they had high ATP, but low ATA. Their inaccuracy often led to the player's downfall in the lower levels, and it was something they had to struggle with in climbing the level ladder. This is the role that is now filled by Beasts, so statistically, Beasts are the new HUcasts, but I always liked playing the role of a powerful, robo-knight.

I'll proudly admit that I'm a sucker for character appearance. I fuss with it in every game I play. I think that's why I was so drawn to the Casts of PSO, and why I was so upset when I witnessed their placement in PSU.

Darki
Dec 12, 2010, 02:59 PM
So that's the point, it would be a bit unfair and unbalanced that casts remained that way, you know.

BIG OLAF
Dec 12, 2010, 03:05 PM
So that's the point, it would be a bit unfair and unbalanced that casts remained that way, you know.

If you mean CASTs having the best HU and RA classes in the game, then yes, I agree. It would be a bit biased.

"En"
Dec 12, 2010, 03:08 PM
I fail to see how it would be "imbalanced" for a Cast to retrieve the very same role that has existed in both PSO and PSU, regardless of the race that played it.

EDIT:


If you mean CASTs having the best HU and RA classes in the game, then yes, I agree. It would be a bit biased.

I can certainly agree by this, as well.

It should also be noted, there's no gurantee that Casts will be able to use magic, either. They were barred from it in PSO and PSZ; I would expect this trend to uphold in PSO2, as well. That, on its own, is a worthy sacrifice for the stats that Casts had in PSO.

landman
Dec 12, 2010, 08:03 PM
In PSP2 CASTs have the higher HP instead of Beasts, they are in second place as stronger race, and the first in accuracy, while Beasts are in last place, I don't understand why would you prefer the PSO HUcast over the PSU CAST Hunter.

Darki
Dec 12, 2010, 10:01 PM
Is calld PSO nostalgia drama.

"En"
Dec 13, 2010, 09:33 AM
Is calld PSO nostalgia drama.

PSO nostalgia, perhaps. But I'd hardly consider my argument as, "drama." I'm not going to continue this debate; I've made it more than clear to you all what my conditions for the acceptance of Beasts in PSO2 are.

We know next to nothing about what PSO2 will bring. All we have is the name, and a few obscure lines which were in the video - which showed no ingame footage - announcing the sequel of Phantasy Star Online. There is nothing I, nor any of you, can do to change what Sega does for this game, and with the lack of information on PSO2, all we're doing is discoursing on a subject which may not even be relevant. Only time will tell.

Darki
Dec 13, 2010, 09:54 AM
Yeah, but sticking to those "conditions" might ruin your game experience. You have already what you want in PSO, same that we have "what we want" in PSU. If they do something different, try to look at it as something new. I don't wanna play PSO or PSU in the next game, I wanna play something better. I hardly care about beasts being the "strongest" in the game, I played them mainly for aesthetics and nanoblast, and I would still have played a beast WT even if they were the worst fighters and techers in the game. As you said we know nothing for the game, then why the fuck are you giving already conditions about how or how not you will like the game? You contradict yourself.

But why do you care that much for it? You like HUcast, then play HUcast. If in PSO2 it wasn't on the top of the "ATP chain" wouldn't you still play it? Why do you care so much about another race doing the "big numb4rz" when CASTs have been always good fighters, even in PSU where they're not the "strongest"?

I agree with your other two points, although I don't care too much about the argumental reason for including beasts in the game (as I said previously, SEGA never dissapointed me in terms of game plot, the problem has always been the game mechanics). The third point, further differences between races, I like that too. But if you ask me, I find it more "right" CASTs being the ATA powerhouses and the best rangers (specially if they decide to separate gun from melee damage) and beasts as the fighters. I hardly see a beast fitting in the role of the best gunner...

"En"
Dec 13, 2010, 10:04 AM
Very well; I'll stand down on that point. You've said something that has made me realize that I was going against my very own principles: Not to go for the class/race that is deemed the "best" at something, but to simply play the class/race that I know I'll have fun playing.

I will, however, still stand by the other two points I made. I would like a plot explanation, and a more distinguished difference in "unique" abilities between races.

Darki
Dec 13, 2010, 02:38 PM
Somehow I have the feeling that granting each race unique features other than stats or maybe photon blasts/SUVs/nanoblast/whatever they do, is not too high on SEGA's "to-do list".

I would like as it was in PSO, with newmans having a TP bonus, CASTs with HP bonus and stuff (dunno what could be for beasts, btw), but for that we gotta take in account how will be the game and combat mechanics will be.

Kimil Adrayne
Dec 13, 2010, 02:53 PM
Should beasts be in PSO2? Depends on what PSO2's story is about. If the story is in the Gural/Coral Universe and follows events relating to Pioneer 1 and 2, then I don't see where Beasts could be added other than the bullshit ~Dimensional Rift~ crap that gave us PSO weaps in PSU. Really, I would like them to never do that half-assed stuff again.

I read somewhere that PSP2 was supposed to link PSU and PSO's stories in some way. If this was the case then I think they could be added and should be as long as balance isn't an issue. I'd personally like to see them, though I only say that because I played one as my main throughout PSU, PSP and PSP2.

If Beasts in the sense of what they were in PSU weren't added, then I'd like to see a PSO equivalent of beasts. As an example, I'd call Motavians the PS4 equivalent of PSU beasts. They are not in anyway exact, (I'd actually say the baby of a Numan and a Motavian in PS4 would be closer stat-wise and maybe appearance too) but I'd call them the equivalent. Newmans in PSU and PSO weren't the same (PSU they rock at magic and are okay with melee, where in PSO they couldn't be rangers at all), neither were Casts (Magic Robots anyone?).

tl;dr:
Only add them if it makes sense. They don't even need to be the same beasts from PSU.

Dongra
Dec 13, 2010, 03:21 PM
Somehow I have the feeling that granting each race unique features other than stats or maybe photon blasts/SUVs/nanoblast/whatever they do, is not too high on SEGA's "to-do list".

I would like as it was in PSO, with newmans having a TP bonus, CASTs with HP bonus and stuff (dunno what could be for beasts, btw), but for that we gotta take in account how will be the game and combat mechanics will be.
The TP and HP regenerations were hardly noticeable. I'd rather they gave them something that stood out more. Also, if they bring materials back, I hope they don't have material limits again. If they do bring back materials then at least make sure every race/class can max their stats with materials. The newmans in PSO got screwed so hard.

Kent
Dec 13, 2010, 07:52 PM
Material limits existed for a reason - to prevent people from running around at level 1 with maxed stats. There's nothing wrong with them being limited (especially if we also have MAGs and characters that won't hit their stat caps naturally), and though I think players should be able to see their material usage count and reset their usage, if they want to.

Kimil Adrayne
Dec 13, 2010, 07:55 PM
I hope there is no such thing as materials as they existed in PSO. Maybe if it where changed...

Two things:
* Material Limits start low and increase with levels.
* Ability to reset them.

MAXrobo
Dec 13, 2010, 08:08 PM
id like the materials to be similar to how they where in PSZ, this includes NO max stats. with not having max stats it lets you costomize you character more to your liking. and with a fairly low cap on materials ( only 80, 100 if you where human) it didnt get too out of hand. also in PSZ you could get a reset material if you decided you wanted different stats.

SolarFlare
Dec 14, 2010, 04:15 PM
I remember when the first drawings came out of pso 1 there was a duck man hybrid. Maybe it was the first rendition of a beast. I forgot what it was but I remember him. Any body else remember?

I am glad you brought this up, I bought the concept art book for PSO, Book of Hunters, some years ago that showed the early development of levels and characters and some monsters that never made it into the game and to my surprise I saw that exact picture you are talking about as well as a concept art picture of a Beast that was made for PSO.

As you will see Beasts were in the original concept for PSO many years before PSU was even talked about as well as some other bird like race were in the original concept for PSO and that leads me to think that there is a good chance Sonic Team might try to put in what they had to leave out from the first game, though it doesn't mean that they will put Beasts in just cause of that.

SolarFlare
Dec 14, 2010, 04:17 PM
Sorry for the double post but I wanted to post this picture too and there was only room for 5 total.

zandra117
Dec 15, 2010, 03:13 AM
Thats not a beast, thats the original concept for the Hunewm, male newman hunter.

AlexCraig
Dec 15, 2010, 11:48 AM
Zandra's right. I have the Book of Hunters. That is concept HUnewm art.

BIG OLAF
Dec 15, 2010, 01:55 PM
Zandra's right. I have the Book of Hunters. That is concept HUnewm art.

Even if it is, it seems that Sega took that concept and morphed an entire new race out of it five years later (Beasts).

Anon_Fire
Dec 15, 2010, 02:11 PM
I hope there is no such thing as materials as they existed in PSO. Maybe if it where changed...

Two things:
* Material Limits start low and increase with levels.
* Ability to reset them.

We have Reset Materials from PSZ.

Zarode
Dec 15, 2010, 05:11 PM
Zandra's right. I have the Book of Hunters. That is concept HUnewm art.

Damn, that would have been badass. It would've been a nice take off of that genetically unstable thing.

Kenbog
Dec 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
Oh come on why all the negative reactions against beasts, cant I just enjoy playing one?
Its not that they are in the game that you have to own one...

Googlebonker
Dec 16, 2010, 07:31 PM
What about multiracial characters? O_O What would happen if your character`s parents were a Beast and a Human?

SolarFlare
Dec 16, 2010, 09:07 PM
Thats not a beast, thats the original concept for the Hunewm, male newman hunter.

Thank you for correcting me on that, I made a mistake.

Shadownami92
Dec 16, 2010, 09:14 PM
I wouldn't mind Beasts, I don't see much reason for them to be in the game though, they just seem like an in between of a human and a cast.

Either way as long as they keep the game balanced enough where I can enjoy being a Force without having to always swing around a wand then I'll be decently happy.

Although I would prefer some more varied races. In PSU I found that newmans, humans and beasts all just seemed to be the same thing visually just with a different nose and ears and maybe a couple random choice differences.

If they could push the envelope to give more varied aethetics for each race than that would be great.

I personally dislike beasts though, overall they seemed like a pretty pointless class to me.
And seeing as how there is such a short deadline for the release of PSO2 and Sonic Teams record of seemingly bland environments in PS games as of late I would much prefer that they spend their resources worrying about other things than adding what I think is a relatively tacked on race.

I wouldn't mind having actual beast races though, where the characters were more beast than human though. Maybe for face types and stuff you could start with different alien/animal types, then mess around with some basic features.

Or D-Cell infected types like Pollux, Castor and Flowen would be pretty awesome too if they could manage it storywise.

Either way I would prefer to have the game feel more like Phantasy Star Online than just a "PSU in a new system" so either way I'm hoping for an improved system based on PSO rather than PSU.

Kent
Dec 16, 2010, 10:11 PM
What about multiracial characters? O_O What would happen if your character`s parents were a Beast and a Human?
A balancing nightmare.

Akaimizu
Dec 17, 2010, 01:32 PM
I could imagine. This is why your characters in PSP2 can't be a mixed race, even though a particular major NPC character is a mixed race between Newman and Beast. He couldn't nano-blast, though. He obviously got his ability to Mirage Blast (instead) from the Newman side of him. He, on the other hand, has a lot of beast-like sensory organs firing off.

venn2010
Dec 19, 2010, 11:12 PM
I'm just gonna vote yes, just for the variety's sake.

pikachief
Dec 20, 2010, 01:58 AM
YES! lol

They can have as many or as little races and classes as they want as long as they're balanced :) Hey take out beasts? Might as well take our humans too while we're out it right? lol Cast can be fighters and gunners and newmans can be fighters and techers ;)

Heck, y not take out beast casts and newmans and have even less versatility in the game? No? You want more? Then keep beasts and just play something else.

Problem is not the races its the balance of the game.

P.S. Beasts r teh hawtest =^.^= (Newmans have ugly faces stretched ugly like by their ugly funky ears :D lol)

Wayu
Dec 20, 2010, 04:13 AM
^
RACIIIST!!

JK. It's your own personal preference.

-Wayu

BIG OLAF
Dec 20, 2010, 04:29 AM
Beasts r teh hawtest =^.^= (Newmans have ugly faces stretched ugly like by their ugly funky ears :D lol)

I agree to these statements^, but I have to say that I think Humans are still even uglier than Newmans (Newmans don't look too bad if made correctly, but Humans are beyond saving).

Darki
Dec 20, 2010, 04:52 AM
In my personal oppinion, actually, newmans and humans are very easy to do to make them cute or with a beautiful face. CASTs too because they have the same kind of face.

Beasts are fugly as hell unless you spend hours tweaking the character editor to make them have a pretty face.

But anyways, that doesn't matter because people will still make chara with craptacular faces everywhere and still think they're cute. <_<

Wayu
Dec 20, 2010, 05:03 AM
Thank you Darki. I was thinking that I'd have to solo these guys ^^;.

But in that regard, I hope they add more in-depth stuff to character creation so that we can make MORE NON-FUGLY faces to PSO2/PSPo2i.

-Wayu

Darki
Dec 20, 2010, 05:14 AM
Sorry then if I betray you, lol, but my favorite race is beast too. xD

I just said that beasts can be very pretty but the standard is a bit higher than other races. I prefer the looks of my beast over any newman or human ingame. But that's for females, for males I think beasts can look funny but I don't like their face complexion. That's why my female beast likes newmans lol.

Wayu
Dec 20, 2010, 05:18 AM
But it's all down to the tweaking in the end, am I right?

-Wayu

Darki
Dec 20, 2010, 05:21 AM
Well, of course. But male beasts, I don't know, the shades thei added near the mauth and those so tiny eyes, they look weird to me. And if you try to make a "pretty face" with them the face shades mess it all.

BIG OLAF
Dec 20, 2010, 12:45 PM
Beasts are fugly as hell unless you spend hours tweaking the character editor to make them have a pretty face.

Hey, I think I did a pretty good job with my character's face, and I only spent about 20 seconds in the editor when I was making her, as I didn't know anything about making female characters at that point. Apparently it turned out all right, considring all the compliments I get.


But anyways, that doesn't matter because people will still make chara with craptacular faces everywhere and still think they're cute. <_<

^I'm going to quote this for truth. Sad, scary truth. Hopefully Sega does a little bit of a redesign on the character's facial features in PSO2 (which I'm sure they will).

Darki
Dec 20, 2010, 01:41 PM
I believe there has to be room to make anything, because you may wish to make an ugly character for any reason in particular. But what I don't like about the current character creation things are...

First, I want baldies. I hate they didn't let you make a character without hair, what the fuck are they thinking? Half the men in my family shave their heads for their own reason (hair loss, looking l33t, etc). And well, why not? Baldy for females too, damn.

Second, I hate that males have a crapload of "old faces" with facial hear, but no "smooth baby face" with facial hear. I'm 22 and I have moustache and beard, and my skin is not wrinkled old like my grandfather. I'd like that facial hair was something apart of the face, like brows.

Third, the opposite goes to females: 5 faces, all of them baby faces, one of them with fugly freckles that look like an over-acne'd pubescent. What happens, every woman dies young in PS universe? Why my friend can make a Gandalf almost perfect (sans beard lenght) and I can't make a granny? It's unfair. Grannies deserve a lot of love.

Fourth, make the damn hair decorations SEPARATED from the hairstyle. I love that last long hairdo but the round hat ruins it all, seriously, it's so crap to see many people with that hat when it looks awful with the outfit. It's like seeing a model desfile of mushrooms from Mario Bros.

BIG OLAF
Dec 20, 2010, 02:29 PM
the opposite goes to females: 5 faces, all of them baby faces

I don't really agree with that. Maybe two or three of them, but not all five. My character's face doesn't look like a "baby face"; it looks like the face of a 20-something-year-old, like I intended. Though, I'll agree that the freckle face is an abomination, and I have no idea why anyone would pick it.


Fourth, make the damn hair decorations SEPARATED from the hairstyle.

^Yes, that's something about PSU that's cheesed me off since the first day. Why can't we pick any accessory to go with any hairstyle? Now, I realize some accessories don't go with some hairstyles, but still. At least try and make it work.

Darki
Dec 20, 2010, 05:33 PM
yeah, I understand what you say but there are many "cattegories" of hair, specially now that we have so many "premade lego hairs" that have same bangs and different back, but the back part are the same for like 5 bangs.

I wouldn't mind to keep it as it is now but I'd like that they allowed all the hairs to be "hatless", because maybe your char looks perfect with the old RAmarl hair but the militar hat just looks idiot with the butterflies set from moatoob. I understand that some can't be that way, like for example the cheers set hair or the default for female newmans in PSPo2, because the hairdo is actually sustained by the weird decoration, but the pizza one with the giant mushroom would look really beautiful in other clothes, and the hat just destroys that hair for me.

Vintasticvin
Dec 22, 2010, 05:11 PM
Hmm having Beasts in PSO:2 ...... This be veeeeeery interesting PSO is gonna be big, and if we could steal some of the PSU crowd by tossing in Beasts hmm.... sales and subscription sales could be beyond belief. But its a wild card and most of the "Good ol days" players like myself might not take kindly to them then again we already have our powerhouses. The Casts.

HeartBreak301
Dec 22, 2010, 05:30 PM
Beasts don't fit into PSO's storyline, so I say no. I'd also like them to stick with a static class system.

BIG OLAF
Dec 22, 2010, 07:08 PM
most of the "Good ol days" players like myself might not take kindly to them then again we already have our powerhouses. The Casts.

Well, these aren't the "Good Ol' Days", then. Change is inevitable. Best to embrace it, seeing as you can't stop it.

fighgunners
Dec 22, 2010, 07:41 PM
DUUUUUMANS. Makes sense because D cells exist here.

Jinto117
Dec 22, 2010, 08:11 PM
Beasts in PSO II would in my opinion corrupt the integrity of what PSO II should be. PSO II should NOT be anything like PSU, save for a few gameplay elements. Also, what do beasts offer that casts don't? Casts are androids that both have super strength and superior accuracy. A beast is nothing more then a roided out human who would in all likelihood still be weaker to a cast machine anyway. Thanks but no thanks on having Thundercats in my precious PSO II.

Darki
Dec 22, 2010, 08:11 PM
It's fun how people don't like innovation... I guess for half the people here PSO 2 would be "episode 5" with the same graphics.

BIG OLAF
Dec 22, 2010, 08:33 PM
Beasts in PSO II would in my opinion corrupt the integrity of what PSO II should be. PSO II should NOT be anything like PSU, save for a few gameplay elements. Also, what do beasts offer that casts don't? Casts are androids that both have super strength and superior accuracy. A beast is nothing more then a roided out human who would in all likelihood still be weaker to a cast machine anyway. Thanks but no thanks on having Thundercats in my precious PSO II.

I've been waiting since the PSO2 announcement trailer for someone to say that. Thank you.

EDIT: If you would have read the rest of the thread, you would've seen the discussion regarding the fact that CASTs having the best strength and accuracy is a bit biased, hence the need for Beasts to hold the strength title, and for CASTs to hold the accuracy title alone.


I guess for half the people here PSO 2 would be "episode 5" with the same graphics.

Sadly, if they could have it that way, they probably would.

Sinue_v2
Dec 22, 2010, 10:14 PM
Well, these aren't the "Good Ol' Days", then. Change is inevitable. Best to embrace it, seeing as you can't stop it.

Change is one thing, but pulling Beasts into PSO2 would not be change... it would simply be fishing for slop-over customers (which they don't need). It is not "innovation" as Darki put it. It is mining established series to shoehorn in a fan service offering to a different series which already has it's own established independent mythos and continuity.

If you need a fourth race to fill the Beast role insofar as game balance goes, any number of newly invented races could be implemented and weaved seamlessly into a new installment. There is no more need to reuse beasts in PSO2 as there is a need to put Motavians in PSO2, and putting either of them in the game will look like cheap fan-service and put restrictions on the new story and gameplay innovations if they are to accommodate a handful of fans.

So yeah... if it wasn't already intended towards the Beast supporters, your quote of "Change is inevitable, best to embrace it" applies directly to them.


Might as well take our humans too while we're out it right? - Pikacheif

It's not like Beasts are a staple race in the Phantasy Star franchise. At this point, neither Motavians or Dezolians are staple races of the series either, though holding the distinction of "founding" races which were present when the series first formulated it's identity and unique style which would influence later titles.

Let's compare: Games with humans in italics, games with beasts in bold.

PS I
PS II
PS III
PS IV
PS Gaiden
PSO Ep I
PSO Ep II
PSO Ep III
PSO BB
PSZero
PSU
PSU:AOTI
PSU:PSP
PSU:PSP 2
PSU:PSP Infinity

When not counting expansions as individual releases:

PS I
PS II
PS III
PS IV
PS Gaiden
PSO Ep I, II, & BB
PSO Ep III
PSZero
PSU, AoTI
PSU:PSP
PSU:PSP 2, PSP Infinity

Broken down between major console releases and handheld side-story installments?

PS I
PS II
PS III
PS IV
PSO Ep I, II, & BB
PSO Ep III
PSU, AoTI

PS Gaiden
PSZero
PSU:PSP
PSU:PSP 2, PSP Infinity

See it now?

Humans, Numans, and Androids are the only real staple races of the Phantasy Star franchise. Numans only being absent from PSI, PSIII, and Gaiden. Androids are even more of a staple race, being present in all of the games except for PSI and PSII... and even that's debatable. They were around in PSII, but were not represented in game... except perhaps as enemies, and PSI has a number of NPC android characters such as the primitive RobotCops and your interplanetary chauffeur Hapsby.

(Didn't add PS: Adventure since it's not a RPG, nor did it really have anything to do with PS except for being set on pre-collapse Motavia before PSII)

BIG OLAF
Dec 22, 2010, 10:26 PM
Change is one thing, but pulling Beasts into PSO2 would not be change... it would simply be fishing for slop-over customers (which they don't need). It is not "innovation" as Darki put it. It is mining established series to shoehorn in a fan service offering to a different series which already has it's own established independent mythos and continuity.

If you need a fourth race to fill the Beast role insofar as game balance goes, any number of newly invented races could be implemented and weaved seamlessly into a new installment. There is no more need to reuse beasts in PSO2 as there is a need to put Motavians in PSO2, and putting either of them in the game will look like cheap fan-service and put restrictions on the new story and gameplay innovations if they are to accommodate a handful of fans.

So yeah... if it wasn't already intended towards the Beast supporters, your quote of "Change is inevitable, best to embrace it" applies directly to them.

I suppose that my quote could go both ways, but I just wouldn't understand Sega's logic in taking out Beasts after putting them into all the PS games (save for PSZ) they've released in the past ~5 years. It wouldn't make sense to me. But, I like Beasts, so even if putting them in PSO2 is blatant fanservice, so be it. I still wouldn't mind. If they aren't in PSO2, that would be fine as well, but only if Sega puts in an equal or greater substitute.

Dongra
Dec 22, 2010, 10:33 PM
It's called bias. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike the beast race. For some reason, you felt the need to constantly defend your choice when, in the end, no one here has any control over which races will make it into PSO2. If you are going to post your opinion about whether or not you would like to see beasts in PSO2 then give your answer and just leave it at that.

BIG OLAF
Dec 22, 2010, 10:47 PM
It's called bias. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike the beast race. For some reason, you felt the need to constantly defend your choice when, in the end, no one here has any control over which races will make it into PSO2. If you are going to post your opinion about whether or not you would like to see beasts in PSO2 then give your answer and just leave it at that.

Chill out, I'm pretty sure anyone can post whatever they want. It's a discussion; people can state more than just a simple "Yes" or "No" answer. It's not a crime for me to at least try and understand other people's viewpoints, which are basically all my "defending" posts are.

Darki
Dec 23, 2010, 07:34 AM
Change is one thing, but pulling Beasts into PSO2 would not be change... it would simply be fishing for slop-over customers (which they don't need). It is not "innovation" as Darki put it. It is mining established series to shoehorn in a fan service offering to a different series which already has it's own established independent mythos and continuity.

If you need a fourth race to fill the Beast role insofar as game balance goes, any number of newly invented races could be implemented and weaved seamlessly into a new installment. There is no more need to reuse beasts in PSO2 as there is a need to put Motavians in PSO2, and putting either of them in the game will look like cheap fan-service and put restrictions on the new story and gameplay innovations if they are to accommodate a handful of fans.

So yeah... if it wasn't already intended towards the Beast supporters, your quote of "Change is inevitable, best to embrace it" applies directly to them.

I love how people decide to state their "facts" when the only thing we know about the game is the title logo and maybe that isn't going to be the final one.

So, NO MATTER what's the story of PSO 2, adding Beasts, or Dumans, for example, will always be a fanservice feature? I don't really get how people can do such statements. I'm not talking now from the "beast fanboy" part of my brain, and seriously, I like beasts but I don't really care if they add them ot not as long as they balance the game. But I don't care in what games and what not they appear already, you can state whatever you want but we can apply the same to CASTs or newmans, then, if we're going to start going to what is fanservice or what not, specially when balance was a bit crap in any of the previous games, first having a race (CAST) that was the best at two of the three classes and then having all the classes fucked up in the other one.

So, keep your smart answers to when we know what the game is going to be about, because giving such "statements" before knowing it is a bit too pretentious. NOW, as what we know, is as much valid to "wish" for beasts in PSO 2 as to wish for CASTs or Newmans.

redroses
Dec 23, 2010, 08:21 AM
Funny how people say putting Beasts in PSO2 is fan service, but making the game Phantasy Star Online 2 isn't like the biggest fan service ever? lol.

Also, nobody knows the story of PSO2, so the argument of beasts not fitting in the story of PSO makes no sense.
If PSO2 pleays a million years after PSO everything is possible.
PSO2 =/= PSO
That means, it might actually have, hold your breath, a totally different story?! *gasp*

Yes, the name is Phantasy Star Online 2, and it will most likely have many features that were in PSO(or maybe not), but do you really think they will drop/dissapoint all of their PSU/PSP2/PSP2i fans and put nothing from those three games in? I don't think so.

Darki
Dec 23, 2010, 08:33 AM
Funny how people say putting Beasts in PSO2 is fan service, but making the game Phantasy Star Online 2 isn't like the biggest fan service ever? lol.

Also, nobody knows the story of PSO2, so the argument of beasts not fitting in the story of PSO makes no sense.
If PSO2 pleays a million years after PSO everything is possible.
PSO2 =/= PSO
That means, it might actually have, hold your breath, a totally different story?! *gasp*

Yes, the name is Phantasy Star Online 2, and it will most likely have many features that were in PSO(or maybe not), but do you really think they will drop/dissapoint all of their PSU/PSP2/PSP2i fans and put nothing from those three games in? I don't think so.

inb4someretardPSOdramarantsoverbeastsnotfittingthe plot

Sorry I had to. This post spoke the truth, lol.

Jinketsu
Dec 23, 2010, 12:33 PM
It's considered to be a direct sequel of Phantasy Star Online, so I wouldn't put it past anyone to assume Beasts would be a weird inclusion.

Also, don't forget Deumans. The SEED-infected Super-Humans from PSPo2i. Let's throw them in the mix for shits and giggles. :D

Darki
Dec 23, 2010, 12:48 PM
well, you know, "direct sequel" means that it will be in the same "timeline" as PSO, that the story will be related to the game and not something like PSU (in theory) that is supposed to be a storu completely different.

So, the question comes again: We had D-Cells on PSO. We have newmans, which are genetic engineered humans. Now tell me a reason for beasts or even Dumans not being able to exist in PSO world apart than some kind of fanboyism hatred for PSU. Just from the argumental reason Newmans exist, they could create beasts very quickly, and Dumans? lol if Olga Flow exist, dumans could exist perfectly.

Jinketsu
Dec 23, 2010, 04:08 PM
Let's not rule out a possibility of an enhanced version of a CAST, maybe more of a cyborg. We could call it a CYST!

Benzu
Dec 28, 2010, 07:23 PM
Nope nope and nopers. Beasts were put in PSU because they had that tattoo system where they could buff up and mow down. But I don't think there should be these types of attacks and form changes in PSO2, it just doesn't fit the style of the game. Removing this removes one purpose for beasts.

Now on to reason 2. The point of the four races in PSU was that Newmans= High TP, CASTs= High Accuracy, Beasts= High Attack, and Humans= All around. But this swap from CASTs being the power houses to good rangers was not good to me, the HuCAST, it lowered my precious attack power! Now, in PSO2, just as in the original PSO, should work with the old formula. Humans= Balanced Fighters, CASTS= Tanks, Newmans= Support. Where's the role of the Beasts in all this? There is none. They could MAKE room, of course, but I'm pretty sure people who liked PSO more than PSU think that no beasts is no problem.

XxGoregrinderxX
Dec 28, 2010, 07:26 PM
I like Beasts but they're are looking stupid and Dirty.
I only use Casts.

BIG OLAF
Dec 28, 2010, 07:31 PM
Nope nope and nopers. Beasts were put in PSU because they had that tattoo system where they could buff up and mow down. But I don't think there should be these types of attacks and form changes in PSO2, it just doesn't fit the style of the game. Removing this removes one purpose for beasts.

Uhm, Beasts weren't put in PSU solely based on their "magical tattoos". They were put in to be the new (that's the keyword: new) tanks, in place of CASTs. Following that logic, CASTs would get a purpose removed because PSO2 might not have SUVs. Humans and Newmans might not have Mirage Blasts. I guess PSO2 shouldn't have any of the old races, then.

Benzu
Dec 28, 2010, 07:40 PM
Uhm, Beasts weren't put in PSU solely based on their "magical tattoos". They were put in to be the new (that's the keyword: new) tanks, in place of CASTs. Following that logic, CASTs would get a purpose removed because PSO2 might not have SUVs. Humans and Newmans might not have Mirage Blasts. I guess PSO2 shouldn't have any of the old races, then.

All right, I follow that logic. But remember that Mirage Blasts and SUVs were implemented because Beasts had "magical tattoos". If you took out all the special whatevers for all the races, you still get a bunch of beastmen with tattoos for no purpose, and that doesn't go with the art direction of PSO. You take out the tattoos, and they sort of just look like Humans with mutton chops. Besides, the gameplay between PSU and PSO is TOTALLY different, you just can implement the same races with the same roles and expect magic. PSO already has a winning formula.

Ryudo
Dec 28, 2010, 07:42 PM
Beasts, Dumans, Motavians, Dezolians or something new, any and all are fine by me, I just hope they dont stick to cast/human/newman to please PSO purists

BIG OLAF
Dec 28, 2010, 07:44 PM
All right, I follow that logic. But remember that Mirage Blasts and SUVs were implemented because Beasts had "magical tattoos".

For the record, CASTs had SUVs at PSU's release, just like Beasts had their Nanoblasts. So, I don't think the CASTs got their specials because of the Beasts.


If you took out all the special whatevers for all the races, you still get a bunch of beastmen with tattoos for no purpose, and that doesn't go with the art direction of PSO. You take out the tattoos, and they sort of just look like Humans with mutton chops. Besides, the gameplay between PSU and PSO is TOTALLY different, you just can implement the same races with the same roles and expect magic. PSO already has a winning formula.

Don't assume that Sega is going to follow PSO's "art direction" and "winning formula" just because the name of the game is "PSO2". Like I, and many, many others have said: Sega isn't going to throw out all the advancements they've made with PSU/P2 over the past 5 years (not to mention leaving PSU/P2 fans out in the cold, as redroses pointed out a page or so back). Don't expect PSO2 to play just like the original, or even largely resemble it.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be a dick, or tell anyone that they're "wrong" or not entitled to their own opinion. I'm just trying to make people realize that the PSO Nostalgia Fest 2011 is that-a-way ------------->.

Darki
Dec 28, 2010, 07:47 PM
They could MAKE room, of course, but I'm pretty sure people who liked PSO more than PSU think that no beasts is no problem.

Let me tell you something, for if you didn't think of that possibility (as it seems): Would you believe me if I told you that maybe -omygawd- people who liked PSU would might play PSO 2 too? Yeah, dude! Incredible, isn't it? Following that logic, I played PSO and PSU and I believe (and many people I know) CASTS are fugly and boring, so we might believe that no CASTs could be even better then.

Lol. It's really amazingly funny how people still doesn't understand what the term "new game" means. They get sticked to PSO mechanics (or PSU) when they don't even know the font type they're going to use in the menus, even less if they're going to make the game mechanics the same as PSO. What if they decided then to give newmans their old glory and put them as advanced numan fighters from old PS saga, then? Would you say then that numans weren't enough time in the PS sagas to be put as the best fighters, as could happen if we got the inspiration from the old games?

CASTs were the best fighters and gunners in PSO. If you ask me I'd be really happy if in PSO 2 newmans were the best forces and hunters instead (it would fit better in my tastes of battlemages). I don't really like seeing walking coke cans everywhere, but of course that's personal taste.

OR we could maybe think that it would only be fair that we had unique races that excelled at each class, not having one that is the best at two and the other two races fucked up. I'm not talking about beasts anymore, but i'd pay money for next PSO 2 to have classes and races balanced not like PSO had.

Benzu
Dec 28, 2010, 07:59 PM
Let me tell you something, for if you didn't think of that possibility (as it seems): Would you believe me if I told you that maybe -omygawd- people who liked PSU would might play PSO 2 too? Yeah, dude! Incredible, isn't it? Following that logic, I played PSO and PSU and I believe (and many people I know) CASTS are fugly and boring, so we might believe that no CASTs could be even better then.

Lol. It's really amazingly funny how people still doesn't understand what the term "new game" means. They get sticked to PSO mechanics (or PSU) when they don't even know the font type they're going to use in the menus, even less if they're going to make the game mechanics the same as PSO. What if they decided then to give newmans their old glory and put them as advanced numan fighters from old PS saga, then? Would you say then that numans weren't enough time in the PS sagas to be put as the best fighters, as could happen if we got the inspiration from the old games?

CASTs were the best fighters and gunners in PSO. If you ask me I'd be really happy if in PSO 2 newmans were the best forces and hunters instead (it would fit better in my tastes of battlemages). I don't really like seeing walking coke cans everywhere, but of course that's personal taste.

OR we could maybe think that it would only be fair that we had unique races that excelled at each class, not having one that is the best at two and the other two races fucked up. I'm not talking about beasts anymore, but i'd pay money for next PSO 2 to have classes and races balanced not like PSO had.

Is this Phantasy Star Universe 2? How 'bout the brand spankin' new Phantasy Star Galaxy? No, it's not. It's Phantasy Star Online 2, because Phantasy Star Online was the better. If it's a new game, it's a new name. Of course, I'm sure Sega has taken into account all the advancements and experiments it has made with the PSU franchise, some good and some just horrible. But after all, the fans wanted Online, not Universe, and not a compilation of the two. Do expect a more balanced class/race system, an expanded gameplay, and all the goodies in between. But for the third and final time, it is PSO 2, because PSO addicts didn't quite like PSU or PSP, because Zero wasn't a worthy successor, and because of the above the game is geared towards PSO purists. You can shout and scream all you want, but I'm friggin' happy about it!

BIG OLAF
Dec 28, 2010, 08:07 PM
Is this Phantasy Star Universe 2? How 'bout the brand spankin' new Phantasy Star Galaxy? No, it's not. It's Phantasy Star Online 2, because Phantasy Star Online was the better. If it's a new game, it's a new name. Of course, I'm sure Sega has taken into account all the advancements and experiments it has made with the PSU franchise, some good and some just horrible. But after all, the fans wanted Online, not Universe, and not a compilation of the two. Do expect a more balanced class/race system, an expanded gameplay, and all the goodies in between. But for the third and final time, it is PSO 2, because PSO addicts didn't quite like PSU or PSP, because Zero wasn't a worthy successor, and because of the above the game is geared towards PSO purists. You can shout and scream all you want, but I'm friggin' happy about it!

What about everyone who hated PSO's gameplay? To some people, you can take all the good things you said about PSO, and someone else may hate all those aspects. You see, (as far as we know) Sega wants to advance the franchise, not go back to the year 2001. I'm just saying: don't count your chickens before they hatch, and assume that PSO2 is going to be an exact replica of PSO, but with better graphics, etc. The title of the game means nothing. I mean, Final Fantasy 13 has the same name as Final Fantasy 14. They're only one number apart, like PSO and PSO2, right?

Darki
Dec 28, 2010, 08:08 PM
Lol, the think is that I'm not shouting and screaming of it, because I know nothing about the game yet, unlike others seem to do, stating out "facts" about how the game "will be good" when you don't even have fucking idea about how it will be. What if the game is completely different than any other but still is better than PSO? What if the game is gonna be more alike to PSU but this time well made? NO ONE KNOWS.

About your pretentious PSO fanboy comments, I don't know how the game is going to be, but I'll tell you some other thing: Do you see Phantasy Star Zero 2, or Phantasy Star Zero 2 Infinity? NO. If PSO "style" was that good how is that the portable versions of the games are going the opposite way as you say? Also, do you think SEGA is going to make a freaking godamn copy of PSO as the NEW game? Lol, for that then they could just have kept the PSO servers open and just resume the updates.

Apart from that, your statements don't take in account the fact that PSPo2i is supposedly the game that will link the timelines from PSU and PSO, so you don't even know how much of this will be true.

When you KNOW things, then you can "shout and scream" about it, but now, please, people, stop the smartass attitude. It's a bit boring.

Benzu
Dec 28, 2010, 08:44 PM
Lol, the think is that I'm not shouting and screaming of it, because I know nothing about the game yet, unlike others seem to do, stating out "facts" about how the game "will be good" when you don't even have fucking idea about how it will be. What if the game is completely different than any other but still is better than PSO? What if the game is gonna be more alike to PSU but this time well made? NO ONE KNOWS.

About your pretentious PSO fanboy comments, I don't know how the game is going to be, but I'll tell you some other thing: Do you see Phantasy Star Zero 2, or Phantasy Star Zero 2 Infinity? NO. If PSO "style" was that good how is that the portable versions of the games are going the opposite way as you say? Also, do you think SEGA is going to make a freaking godamn copy of PSO as the NEW game? Lol, for that then they could just have kept the PSO servers open and just resume the updates.

Apart from that, your statements don't take in account the fact that PSPo2i is supposedly the game that will link the timelines from PSU and PSO, so you don't even know how much of this will be true.

When you KNOW things, then you can "shout and scream" about it, but now, please, people, stop the smartass attitude. It's a bit boring.

It's common sense I'm speaking with. The truth is: Nobody knows a darn thing about PSO2 other than it will exist. But why share the name unless it's a successor? It won't be a copy, that's for sure. I imagine it will have the same calubur of difference between PSO and PSO2 as Halo and Halo2. It's the same type of game, the same "feel", but with modified engine and whatnot, better graphics, more and different content and features, even new classes of weapons (such as the Gunblade from PS0). Get this: the game will NOT be the same. Otherwise as you said they could have kept the old servers up and just passed some updates. It's just a game. I'll get it either way. But I don't need proof to tell you to expect another PSO. Now, I realize that this conversation is essentially a waste of my time, it achieves nothing and the answer will be given anyway in due time. Good night.

Shadownami92
Dec 29, 2010, 12:51 AM
What about everyone who hated PSO's gameplay?

If you hated PSO's gameplay why not just continue playing the next release of the Phantasy Star Portable series? I don't see why people are arguing as much whether this game will appeal to PSO purists and PSU fans acting like they will never make another PSU game again and that they have to be happy with PSO2 as well.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they continued their portable PSU games and improved them while PSO2 was being released. I mean sure it might not be the best business wise, but then everyone would be happy right?

Personally I really didn't like PSU or Phantasy Star Portable 1, and Phantasy Star Portable 2 was alright.

For this game I would prefer something more along the lines of Phantasy Star Online or just something new and fresh that isn't PSO or PSU like that works.

No matter what races get put into play I hope that they seem to have their niche to fill without each race being too good at some class where it makes someone of a different race using the game class very unappealing.

Either way I still would prefer to have the game at least feel like PSO, both in terms of environment detail and the overall game's setting. If that makes any sense.

BIG OLAF
Dec 29, 2010, 01:09 AM
If you hated PSO's gameplay why not just continue playing the next release of the Phantasy Star Portable series? I don't see why people are arguing as much whether this game will appeal to PSO purists and PSU fans acting like they will never make another PSU game again and that they have to be happy with PSO2 as well.

I understand all that, but I don't think (at least I hope) Sega would want to completely alienate the Phantasy Star fans that didn't like PSO. That's why I think they're going to try and find a happy medium between PSO and PSU's gameplay somehow.

I don't think anyone is expecting another "Portable" installment after Infinity, at least I'm not. Besides, what if the PSU fans want a console/major Phantasy Star game to play, but don't want a PSO-style game? (rhetorical question, no one actually has to answer it :-P). I'm just saying that if Sega wants to keep most of their customers, they're going to have to find that happy medium I mentioned before. And before any PSO purists say something smart like "PSO was better, so get used to it!!1!": It's called preference. Not everyone shares yours.

TheBlackMage
Dec 29, 2010, 10:40 AM
Personally I hope Beasts are in PSO2. However I can't seem to find a way in which that will work with the other races and classes. If we have the basic 3 classes (Hunter, Ranger, Force) I don't see how a 4th race will fit. Now if we have the hybrid Vanguard class then I could see it working but the problem is PSO already had a hybrid class: the HUnewearl.

I'm also assuming Beasts wouldn't have Nanoblasts. Because if they had that then Casts would Have to have SUV's then too correct? This would mess us the whole Photon Blast principle that the orginal PSO had. All the races in PSO used photon blasts. How would nanoblasts and SUV's work in PSO2? Make it so that Beasts and casts could preform them instead of a photon blast? Then Mags would have to be redone as well it would seem.

If a Beast and a Human had a POW mag each with the exact same stats and the beast was able to do a nanoblast and the human a photon blast, then comes the issue of balancing the Nanoblasts, SUV's and Photon Blasts. They would have to balance out perfectly or one race would be superior to another. Look at how horrible the balance was in PSP2. Casts had a ton of SUV's and 1 of them was insanely over powered. it could rez, heal, remove debuffs, and buff. Then there were the mirage blasts and at the end of the line were nanoblasts where there was (in my opinion) only 1 good one (the invincibility nanoblast) because you could get killed with the others and you can't heal yourself while nanoblasting. After PSP2 I'm kinda on the fence about Sonic Teams ability to balance out the races/classes. (Don't even get me started about the Newmans in PSP2.)

So while it seems like I wouldn't want beasts in the game it depends on 2 things:

-If there are 4 classes
-If Sonic Team can balance out the races/classes

If the above can be done then I'm all for it but if there are only 3 classes or if adding a 4th race will cause unbalance then no.

Darki
Dec 29, 2010, 11:07 AM
But the trick between the 3 classes and 4 races was used already in PSU, if not well, at least the idea was there. Beasts, Newmans and CASTs would excel one at each class, being not so proficent with any other (or maybe being kinda good with another but I'd say that was due to ATA-ATP and damage issues), while humans would be the all-rounded race that would be proficent enough with all classes.

I don't remember PSO being too well balanced either in terms of classes, because even with the inability of CASTs to use techs, they still were the best fighters and gunners, while newmans were the best techers.

Of course, this would work much better if there was a "fourth" type, or there was a complex class system as PSU had. PSO wise talking, I wouldnt say it would change much. Just take HUcasts and HUcaseals and change them for... I guess "HUbeasts" and HUbeaseals" (lol) and that would be pretty much the same.

About the photon blasts or let's say in general "final blast" ability that PS games are featuring lately, you have Mirage Blasts in PSPo2, which are something very close (I think) to what ol' Photon Blasts were, so I don't think it'd be too difficult to do it. Personally, I'd see more appealing if eavery race had unique "final blast", but in any case, SUV weapons and Photon blasts shouldn't be too hard to balance together (as they're the same, just one is "organic" and the other is a machine, but the idea of the effect is similar), being Nanoblast the hard one there.

But, we're talking all the time about "beasts" in PSU terms. What if they're different for PSO 2? In PSU they hint that "nanoblast" was actually the intended "real" form that beasts were supposed to take, but due to energy and metabolic stress it wasn't possible to keep a beast in his/her animal form. I'd love if beasts in PSO 2 were actually blasted out beasts that had a felline/animalistic form all the time, we have "human" characters already with newmans nad humans, so why not? That would actually take out the nanoblast as an ability and give them room for a normal photon blast.

(although I love my beast girl being "human like", but for that I can always play PSU offline mode. Or maybe, as in PSU you can make "fleshy" CASTs and also "mecha" ones, it'd be cool to be able to make beasts into either human-like or animal-like).

TheBlackMage
Dec 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
I don't remember PSO being too well balanced either in terms of classes, because even with the inability of CASTs to use techs, they still were the best fighters and gunners, while newmans were the best techers.


About the photon blasts or let's say in general "final blast" ability that PS games are featuring lately, you have Mirage Blasts in PSPo2, which are something very close (I think) to what ol' Photon Blasts were, so I don't think it'd be too difficult to do it. Personally, I'd see more appealing if eavery race had unique "final blast", but in any case, SUV weapons and Photon blasts shouldn't be too hard to balance together (as they're the same, just one is "organic" and the other is a machine, but the idea of the effect is similar), being Nanoblast the hard one there.

Well by balance I meant that if say a cast and a human did their SUV and Photon Blast that sonic team would have to be careful about balancing the "final blast" feature of the races. In other words lets say that the cast and human decided to use an AoE "final blast". The cast launches missiles that explode when they hit the ground creating a Rafoie like explosion on each missile. The human's final blast summons a dragon that flies around and spews foie like fireballs around on the ground randomly. If these are both the "AoE" final blast for each character the cast gets the better end of the deal.

Also by balance I meant that sonic team would have to either make the final blast have the same effect and just appear different cosmetically for example change the dragon's foie attack to have a rafoie like explosion when the fireball hits the ground, or make up for it by having them be different but but at the same time not over powered, for example the dragon targets each monster in the area once and hits it with foie so while there isn't as much hits as multiple rafoie attacks the damage is the same but all given at once in one foie attack.

Overall I thought the class system itself was pretty good in my opinion. The only thing I would hope they adapt is the higher ATA = higher ranged attack power from PSU, then it would be perfectly balanced. Hunters have the highest Power, Rangers have the highest Accuracy, and Forces have the highest Technique.


Of course, this would work much better if there was a "fourth" type, or there was a complex class system as PSU had. PSO wise talking, I wouldnt say it would change much. Just take HUcasts and HUcaseals and change them for... I guess "HUbeasts" and HUbeaseals" (lol) and that would be pretty much the same.
If they changed the class system to be akin to that of PSU's I could see that but the class system is a major part of the game so I think its a pretty safe bet that they'll stick to the 3 basic classes. Maybe its just me but I still can't really picture the addition of a 4th "hybrid" class. Technically PSO had 5 hybrid classes that could potentially preform all the jobs (HUmar, HUnewearl, RAmar, RAmarl, FOmarl, FOmar) but only 3 of them were well suited for it (HUnewearl, RAmarl, FOmar) with only 1 (some would argue 2) that was the best hybrid character (HUnewearl [and FOmar some would debate]). So a 4th hybrid class isn't actually needed at all. Its possible that it might exist but its really not needed. In fact I personally think that PSP2's 4 basic class system was a test and if it succeeded then they've would've added in the Vanguard/Braver class along with the original 3 in PSO2.




But, we're talking all the time about "beasts" in PSU terms. What if they're different for PSO 2? In PSU they hint that "nanoblast" was actually the intended "real" form that beasts were supposed to take, but due to energy and metabolic stress it wasn't possible to keep a beast in his/her animal form. I'd love if beasts in PSO 2 were actually blasted out beasts that had a felline/animalistic form all the time, we have "human" characters already with newmans nad humans, so why not? That would actually take out the nanoblast as an ability and give them room for a normal photon blast.
Its possible but I highly doubt it.


(although I love my beast girl being "human like", but for that I can always play PSU offline mode. Or maybe, as in PSU you can make "fleshy" CASTs and also "mecha" ones, it'd be cool to be able to make beasts into either human-like or animal-like).
This idea might actually work if PSO2 keeps the character customization feature from PSU which I'm pretty sure they will. Character customization, clothing, and room customization were some of PSU's highlights. Plus the Creative Manager for PSU Takao Miyoshi said and I quote: "We really wanted to include playable alien characters, we considered adding the Motavian farmer race from the old Phantasy Star games, and that evolved into the beastman idea." (Electronic Gaming Monthly May 2005 Issue 191) While he was talking about PSU if they keep beasts in PSO2 then this could potentially happen. I wouldn't count on it but it could happen. (Personally I say its about a 3% chance.)

Dongra
Dec 29, 2010, 04:21 PM
I wonder if some people really won't play PSO2 just because the game won't be identical to PSO or if their precious beast race is removed.

Seth Astra
Dec 29, 2010, 04:38 PM
I wonder if some people really won't play PSO2 just because the game won't be identical to PSO or if their precious beast race is removed.
I find this would be highly likely, yes.

BIG OLAF
Dec 29, 2010, 04:54 PM
I wonder if some people really won't play PSO2 just because the game won't be identical to PSO or if their precious beast race is removed.

The reason I would play it is if it indeed was nothing like the original PSO. As for Beasts being in or not, I can live without them, but I'd much rather they be included (as Sega doesn't have a valid excuse to not include them). For me to buy PSO2, it's all going to boil down to the gameplay, and whether or not the combat is aged and atrocious like the original PSO's (and character customization, as that's my most major selling point in RPGs).

Darki
Dec 29, 2010, 05:00 PM
Well, I'll play PSO 2 probably, but same that I didn't stick to PSO when PSU came because PSU gave me more fun than PSO, I'll do the same in the future. I'm not going to say "If it hasn't beasts PSO 2 sucks", I'll just play both games. Taking in mind that I've burned PSU already a lot, there's a high chance that I'll play PSO 2 but if the game doesn't seem appealing to me, then I'll stick to PSU.

I wouldn't put conditions to the game, because I can't know how am I going to actually enjoy it when it comes out. I don't wanna sound like a PSO drama queen like some posts back that were saying "how would PSO 2 be a good game" like they had some kind of precognitive power that scapes my comprehension, but for example for me what made PSU one of my favorite games was the multi-classing feature, specially hybrid classes.

They'll have to make classes very cool for me to prefer PSO 2 classing system over PSU, with all the flaws it has, I prefer it over PSO's really much. Beasts, I like them, in fact they're my favorite classes. In PSO I played as a HUnewearl and it was meh, compared to my beast Wartecher today, of course in terms of fun, I don't wanna do any "technical" comparision.

Something that was the real deal for me about PSU classing system is probably the simplest part: The ability to make your favorite class and your favorite race together without restrictions. Sorry for HUnewearl lovers, but I didn't like too much that PSO made me make a latino long-eared woman to play my battlemage class (I'm spanish so no racist-pun intended about latinos, I'm probably one myself, lol). If my favorite race was newman and my favorite class was ranger, for example (and I have many friends who like this combo), in PSO I'd be utterly screwed. I don't want that to happen in PSO 2, because it never happened in PSU.

But that's just one part of the equation, of many features that might make or not appealing the game to me. If I had to stick with the latino long-eared bitch in exchange to awesome features better than PSO and PSU, I'll gladly do. I just hope they don't liksten to PSU or PSO drama queens like Benzu, sticking to one game and throwing away any good feature that the other game has over the first, because that wouldn't be an improvement, and an improvement is what we all ('cept drama queens) want.

darkepyonuk
Jan 24, 2011, 01:18 PM
it wouldnt be PSO if it had beasts

Gintoki-kun
Jan 24, 2011, 01:49 PM
Put it like this(No trying to be a troll)
Why don't you guys just go to SEGAC frontlines,give them a letter or something of valid use saying reasons that you would or wouldn't want this in PSO2.Not saying it would work but if they're making a game,what mostly counts is the player review on said game.I see this whole discussion as spam nonetheless pointless.If it messes up the storyline/sequel and you wouldn't want to play,that just 1 less person.If you want the game to be how YOU want it then go work for Segac, your opinions count but we don't see a mod or someone who creates the game pass through here all the time.

Darki
Jan 24, 2011, 03:11 PM
^ The point is, pal, this is a FORUM. A place where we discuss things.

It's true that things have been going slightly off-topic sometimes but everything was revolving around the idea of the beasts, like what effect would it have among the classes or how would it be to have even more new races than just beasts. We don't have any intention to impose our ideas (most of us), just talk about it. If you feel this is useless, then don't read. <_<


@darkepyonuk: Of course, because PSO is ONLY about not having beasts.

Nitro Vordex
Jan 24, 2011, 07:16 PM
I would like to see a return of Motavians and Dezolians... but they wouldn't make any sense at all in a PSO game, so I'm not going to be terribly hurt if they don't make an appearance. Still, I would like to see SOME kind of alien life forms out in space sometime. At least some semblance of at least Star Trek caliber make-up would be nice.
Here's hoping for Raja as a hidden character.

MAXrobo
Jan 24, 2011, 09:29 PM
it wouldnt be PSO if it had beasts

but this isnt PSO. Its PSO2, a completely different game.

BIG OLAF
Jan 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
but this isn't PSO. Its PSO2, a completely different game.

^This is the whole point I've been trying to get across for months now.

It's not working.

Seth Astra
Jan 25, 2011, 12:08 AM
You know, if I could change my vote to yes, I probably would now. However, I'm with the people who think that, if they can't think up a good reason for them to be in the story, keep them out.

Wayu
Jan 25, 2011, 04:31 AM
It's not working.

It's not going to work. Purists will be purists.

-Wayu

RenzokukenZ
Jan 25, 2011, 06:09 AM
You know, if I could change my vote to yes, I probably would now. However, I'm with the people who think that, if they can't think up a good reason for them to be in the story, keep them out.

For a Newman Rights Activist, you sure are cold to the other races.

Let's see, to Beast or not to Beast...That is the question.

Most likely they'll just be replaced with something that resembles Beasts in whatever new universe PSO2 will take place in.

darkepyonuk
Jan 25, 2011, 06:43 AM
but this isnt PSO. Its PSO2, a completely different game.
yes thats right, its PSO2 not PSU or even PSP, its like asking if you wanted the new race from infinity to be in there aswell, PSO is in a different dimension read some of the comments of weapons "a weapon said to have come from a dimensional rift" see what im trying to get at? PSO & PSU unviersies are parralel...

Wayu
Jan 25, 2011, 07:55 AM
^

We actually don't know anything about whether they're parallel or not. So far it's all speculation.

Not that speculation is BAD, nor is it wrong.

It's just that PSO purists will definitely attack you for saying that. Hit the deck.

-Wayu

darkepyonuk
Jan 25, 2011, 08:05 AM
true and they didnt introduce falz as the "leader of the seed" until psp2 which in a way is wrong because originally it was dulk falkis, if falz is the leader of the seed then it begs the question, where were the seed in PSO???

Wayu
Jan 25, 2011, 08:09 AM
Actually, Dulk Falkis was only a conglomerate of a sentient and organized mind with a large number of SEED forms. It wasn't so much the leader of the SEED rather than the leader of SOME SEED.

-Wayu

darkepyonuk
Jan 25, 2011, 08:12 AM
lol yea i thought i missed somthing out, id like to see how they would incorporate all this into pso2, they cant just magicly put beasts in and say that theyve been there all the while and just not know about, after all beasts are native to moatoob and all that

Wayu
Jan 25, 2011, 08:29 AM
They're not really 'native'. They have control over Moatoob, but they're genetically made from Humans.

-Wayu

RenzokukenZ
Jan 25, 2011, 08:45 AM
where were the seed in PSO???

Inside the Ruins. Duh.

darkepyonuk
Jan 25, 2011, 09:20 AM
and it says that in the game? er no! i dont believe that ruins foes are seed... i wont accept it either if they try and pull that one off, itll put me off pso for life

RenzokukenZ
Jan 25, 2011, 09:53 AM
Then don't accept it and live in your delusion.

And most of the Ruins enemies in PSU/PSP are described in the glossary as SEED Form. This is the part where you cover your ears and shout "Lalalalala, I don't believe, lalalala"

Haha, I'm just messing with ya. In seriousness, the few mobs from Ruins such as Chaos Sorceror, Chaos Bringer, and even Dark Falz himself are dubbed as SEED. We'll have to wait until Infinity's full release to see whether that's just a bit of SEGA retcon humor or actual canon.

darkepyonuk
Jan 25, 2011, 09:56 AM
Then don't accept it and live in your delusion.

And most of the Ruins enemies in PSU/PSP are described in the glossary as SEED Form. This is the part where you cover your ears and shout "Lalalalala, I don't believe, lalalala"

sorry couldnt hear you, i had my hands over my ears :p lolz im biast though i have never liked beasts i dont think theyd fit in pso but for a bit of diversity im sure ill live "/

EDIT* i suppose im a bit old fashioned like that :) yea i wouldve thought the daimein would be SEED and delsaber is is an enemy in psp/2 and portrayed as SEED, i just couldnt believe it when they stated falz was the leader of the SEED and now final falz jus looks like falkis "/ and whats up with Dark Falz (normal) why make him a de rol?

BIG OLAF
Jan 25, 2011, 12:05 PM
I always considered the Ruins enemies from PSO the "very first SEED forms", and they evolved into different creatures as years passed. Chaos Sorcerers evolved into Gaozorans, Chaos Bringers evolved into Carriguines, Dimenians evolved into Deljabans, etc.

Probably not true (but maybe it is), but that's what I believe.

Darki
Jan 25, 2011, 02:20 PM
If we assume that Dark Falz is the same in PSO and PSU, it's easy to make a correlation. Note that with "the same" I don't mean "the same guy" but the same type of creature, as I've been reading stuff about other PS games and the "infinite darkness" was more a species of creatures rather than a single entity. But in any case, and taking as a fact both games, we have two "final bosses" called the same of course with the intention to relate them.

In the same way, PSO and PSU feature monsters infected with the D-cells AND with the SEED virus. I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but as some PSO drama queen purist would say, they're different games. Even if they're related in any way, it's obvious to assume that PSO and PSU timelines are very separated and knowledge of each other is zero (meaning that PSO people don't seem to know a thing about PSU timeline, nor the opposite).

So, I guess you don't need to be Einstein to reach the conclusion that D-cells and SEED-virus are just the name given by both civilizations to a single subject: microscopic biological particles emanated from Dark Falz body that corrupt and mutate any other creature that is exposed directly to them. They even "sprout" creatures of similar characteristics when the concentration is high enough to form those organisms.

Be a PSO or a PSU purist, but the most logical conclusion is that, even if both games are different and non related, Dark Falz and it's influence in the planet/planets where it awakens is of the same nature in all games. If you don't like, get over it. We The Legend of Zelda fans did the same about Ganondorf poppin' out in (almost) every game, you'll survive.

About the Dulk Fakis, wasn't that guy a "normal" SEED-form (or conglomeration of normal ones) overgrown because of feeding of the A-photon reactor of the infected satellite?

pikachief
Jan 25, 2011, 02:34 PM
SEED are attracted to A-photons... im not sure what Fakis is... he's either a lot of SEED attracted to the A-photon reactor and fused into a giant SEED form... or maybe he is just one big seed. or maybe he is one SEED that was overgrown. Like a giant pannon... lol

Also Falz was De Rol Le and Fakis because he takes the form of the strongest being so i suppose the strongest monsters in PSU are De Rol Le and Fakis lol :) (although that's what he does I don't recall Dark Force ever doing it before... lol)

on topic I <3 MAH BEAST! U CAN'T TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ME :'(

Kirukia
Jan 25, 2011, 03:05 PM
If you think about the SEED virus and what happened with Flowen, it's very possible they were the same virus.

At any rate, I assume beasts will be in PSO2, since it's supposed to tie together PSO and PSU/PSP. It would make even less sense to have beasts disappear completely with no explanation than to have humans modified for physical strength at some point in that long period of time.

I understand some people dislike beasts because they were not in PSO, but you have to understand two things:
1) It makes no sense storyline wise (not that the storyline makes much sense anyway).
2) I highly, highly doubt they will make another game as great as PSO. Even if they didn't add beasts, it probably won't compare to PSO. Beasts are not the reason PSU wasn't as great of a game. Balancing yes, but the actual addition of another race, no. The francise has expanded beyond just PSO, and the games ARE related in some ways. It seems like most people don't want beasts JUST because they weren't in PSO. It's like instead of a new game, they only want PSO to be re-released. Just keep an open mind please.

Darki
Jan 25, 2011, 03:18 PM
1) It makes no sense storyline wise (not that the storyline makes much sense anyway).

I would like to know how are you so certain about what makes or doesn't make sense in a storyline when we don't even know what is about that storyline. Saying that beasts don't fit in the new PSO because of the storyline is really senseless, but people keep thinking that PSO 2 is going to be PSO EP5 with better graphics and all the same as it was 10 years ago.

If they decide that the new race is an antrophomorphic rainbow-colored chicken-man with pink ass and they make it fit in the storyline, you can argue as much as you want how you don't like the race, but "making sense" related to a storyline is as simple as just to make a nice story about it. And beasts in PSU were created the same way than newmans. In PSO there were newmans too. They could make beasts too. And Dumans. And the pink-assed rainbow-colored chicken man, if you want.

Apart from that, not everybody thinks PSO was that great. The battle system was boring as hell, but I suppose having flashy weapons made it bearable. Storyline-wise, the game was great, and it had some other features that made it nice, but I'm sorry, when I got PSO disc I took only 2 months to forget about it and focus on Ragnarök Online. The concept of "as great as PSO" is something subjective.

Kirukia
Jan 25, 2011, 03:35 PM
I would like to know how are you so certain about what makes or doesn't make sense in a storyline when we don't even know what is about that storyline. Saying that beasts don't fit in the new PSO because of the storyline is really senseless, but people keep thinking that PSO 2 is going to be PSO EP5 with better graphics and all the same as it was 10 years ago.

If they decide that the new race is an antrophomorphic rainbow-colored chicken-man with pink ass and they make it fit in the storyline, you can argue as much as you want how you don't like the race, but "making sense" related to a storyline is as simple as just to make a nice story about it. And beasts in PSU were created the same way than newmans. In PSO there were newmans too. They could make beasts too. And Dumans. And the pink-assed rainbow-colored chicken man, if you want.

Apart from that, not everybody thinks PSO was that great. The battle system was boring as hell, but I suppose having flashy weapons made it bearable. Storyline-wise, the game was great, and it had some other features that made it nice, but I'm sorry, when I got PSO disc I took only 2 months to forget about it and focus on Ragnarök Online. The concept of "as great as PSO" is something subjective.

PSO2 is supposed to bring the stories of PSO and PSU together. I've heard that's what Sega has said. If I'm wrong, then meh. But if not, then it makes absolutely no sense for beasts to just "disappear" for no apparent reason. You obviously missed my whole point.

Dongra
Jan 25, 2011, 04:47 PM
If I remember correctly, doesn't Dark Falz make a return once every thousand years? I'm pretty sure it can be stopped but not killed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if D-cells and SEED infection were in fact the same thing. Anyway, I still don't see an issue in adding in new races, or even old ones, as long as they implemented into the story well, which shouldn't be difficult, and as long as they are properly balanced for once.

BluexRose
Jan 25, 2011, 05:35 PM
Whether you like beast or not it don't matter....its not beast are gonna disappear out of no where anyway!

Beast are a good idea as a fourth race dumann on the other im not really sure (but thats besides the point)

IF YOU DON'T LIKE BEAST DON'T CREATE ONE (point blank) ^^

lostinseganet
Apr 15, 2011, 08:45 AM
There's some good story questions there. I also agree that if we have Beasts, they better arrive in a form and in a way that is perfectly explained why they are there. It also brings to question that if we did have Beasts, would they be anything like the Beasts from PSU? A lot of these things, mentioned above, may suggest that perhaps some alternative (or perhaps early) version of these guys would be what we get.

As for the other person. Yes. Balancing out the Strength-based races aren't exactly difficult. It still baffles me why Sonic Team seems to have such trouble with it. There's so many sources, particularly western ones, where they could get some good ideas before they already have coders finalizing the code. Now before people start saying, "Why not eastern sources?" Well, it's only because they are the folks that did it first and have long established systems learned from mistakes from further back in time. To not do so, is akin to avoiding any french sources (easily attained) for doing great french recipes.

I, myself, would've increased the different variables that governed statistics a bit. I would've gone a decent clip past where they went with it. Then again, it's only because of my familiarity of certain RPG systems where support abilities and hybrid functions have a lot of balancing in there. They really have to put more attention to the support-side of the Phantasy Star Coin. They have to figure out how to make not raw DPS work well in the big picture and the end game. If there's one thing even FF11 did right, is make it so that people *wanted* the white mage. And definitely more creatures in which the force (and in more statistical depth, the higher TP user) has the advantage in the mix.

Then maybe we can get to something that isn't. "Hey, I'm a beast. Hey, I'm a cast. And we rule this game."

PSP2's engine helped against the strength vs. accuracy stuff a bit, by switching bullets to a more accuracy-based damage modifier. A Major step in the right direction following that massive misstep done up until Phantasy Star Zero. (Cast Hunter vs. Cast Ranger anybody?)

PS. - Never saw the duck man hybrid, myself.

Here is the duck man hybrid. This was wayy back in the day.

http://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/gallery/pso/Settei_HUnewmn3.gif

Here is the link where I found him. Lots of interesting pso beta pics there. Some stuff is not at this site too (^_^)

http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/11/pso-concept-beta/

NoiseHERO
Apr 15, 2011, 11:25 AM
^ omg

omg wtf

People complain about psu looking better before it came out...

But They tore apart so many awesome ideas from pso. D:

They could actually travel IN the pioneer 2 city? @[email protected] (Even though it looked horrible...)

BIG OLAF
Apr 15, 2011, 01:01 PM
They could actually travel IN the pioneer 2 city? @[email protected] (Even though it looked horrible...)

It was only a intermission lobby. Literally took 20 seconds to run from one end to the other.

NoiseHERO
Apr 15, 2011, 02:43 PM
So it was the same size as pso's other lobbies. ]:

Randomness
Apr 15, 2011, 02:55 PM
If you think about the SEED virus and what happened with Flowen, it's very possible they were the same virus.

Flowen was explicitly stated to be D-cell experimentation.

As far as I know, there's never been explicit links between PSU and PSO/0.

NoiseHERO
Apr 15, 2011, 03:32 PM
I thought the main villian was the same in every game...

A giant force of evil that takes the form of dark force/falz/fakis...

So technically it IS the same thing isn't it? just that PSU gave it stupid names. Coulda sworn it was only called SEED because they came in pods and infected areas.

Itoshi
Apr 15, 2011, 04:25 PM
I thought the main villian was the same in every game...

A giant force of evil that takes the form of dark force/falz/fakis...

So technically it IS the same thing isn't it? just that PSU gave it stupid names. Coulda sworn it was only called SEED because they came in pods and infected areas.

I suppose. I'm not really sure exactly what the SEED is but my money is it is an alien that targeted the Gurhal system.

There isn't enough information on PSO2 to actually know what the enemy will be this time around (or what kind of races or class system there will be). All we know is that SEGA did state it was going to bed the "Sequel to Phantasy Star Online" right?

To me that implies that it may go back to the old class system (Human: Balance, CAST: Strength/Defense, Newman: Magic) and the old races. We really don't have a clue though.

GreenThunder
Apr 15, 2011, 04:42 PM
I'm going to be honest here, but when I was first reading the thread title, I thought it said "Do you want breasts in PSO2?"

Stupidity aside, no, not really, no. It would be nice to have them, sure, but I think we're better off just sticking to the original 3 races that were in PSO.

NoiseHERO
Apr 15, 2011, 05:06 PM
I suppose. I'm not really sure exactly what the SEED is but my money is it is an alien that targeted the Gurhal system.

There isn't enough information on PSO2 to actually know what the enemy will be this time around (or what kind of races or class system there will be). All we know is that SEGA did state it was going to bed the "Sequel to Phantasy Star Online" right?

To me that implies that it may go back to the old class system (Human: Balance, CAST: Strength/Defense, Newman: Magic) and the old races. We really don't have a clue though.

Noeee I'm saying they're all the same thing with different names, even since the classic games. :0

Tetsaru
Apr 15, 2011, 05:46 PM
I say bring em back. Hell, add Dumans and some of the old classic PS races, or even make some completely new ones. Personally, I think it would add more variety to the gameplay if there were a lot of different races, each with their own unique abilities (SUV, Nanoblast, etc.) and each being the best at a certain stat (Casts have highest accuracy, Newmans have highest magic, etc.).


I'm going to be honest here, but when I was first reading the thread title, I thought it said "Do you want breasts in PSO2?"

Lol, same here. :razz: I've always had a RAcast as my main character in these games, but the pervert in me would eventually want to make a female character (most likely Newman) and give her the biggest rack possible. She'd need a lot of "support" magic, though - at least enough Resta to cure the back pain. :wacko:

blackmajik2021
Apr 15, 2011, 06:53 PM
you would think that more races and classes would lead to more in-game diversity, however if you look at the history of multiplayer games, the ones with the largest rosters have more often than not been poorly balanced. This ends up actually shrinking the list of available options because you're forced into playing a character that is "top tier" to stay competitive.

starcraft - 3 races - considered to be the most balanced rts ever designed
Marvel vs capcom 2 - 56 playable characters - considered to be one of the most unbalanced fighters ever designed

there are exceptions to the rule - the warcraft 3 mod DOTA is fairly balanced and has around 45 heroes. It has been patched every month or so for the past 10-ish years to get to that point.

of course you can always choose to not play competitively, and things can always be patched.

NoiseHERO
Apr 15, 2011, 11:17 PM
Unless we get some sort of hardcore pvp system, or some classes are actually just too weak, or just too strong (which I'm sure we've dealth with before) then I don't really care about balance and "tiers."

I've always seen PS as just way too casual, even if there are elitist, the most they'd probably compete would be "I BET I SOLO AND KILL BETTER THAN YOU/HAVE MORE RARZ."

Dongra
Apr 15, 2011, 11:20 PM
Sega couldn't even properly balance the twelve class/race combos PSO had. If they couldn't do that right then might as well make it a diverse mess instead of a limited mess.

RemiusTA
Apr 16, 2011, 10:42 PM
If they keep beasts, i really wish they would NOT give them their own planet and just kind of integrate them into the human culture like they do the newmans in PSO. Everyone with their own planet in PSU was kind of annoying, and the Beast culture never really reflected the amount of technology they were using either, imo.


And please GOD give us customizable nanoblasts.

IMO, a great idea would be that instead of MAG Blasts that depend on the type of MAG you raised, it instead alters the form of your Beast Form. Then, allow you to customize some stuff based on that.

It'd be neat sauce. If you could choose between 3 of them like MAG Blasts everytime you're ready to nano, it'd be even fucking cooler.


Oh yeah. And animate them better. PSU's Beasts looked like dipshits.

Mystil
Apr 28, 2011, 03:56 PM
HUcasts were the "beasts" of age old PSO, so I don't see why not.

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 04:05 PM
I say bring em back. Hell, add Dumans and some of the old classic PS races, or even make some completely new ones. Personally, I think it would add more variety to the gameplay if there were a lot of different races, each with their own unique abilities (SUV, Nanoblast, etc.) and each being the best at a certain stat (Casts have highest accuracy, Newmans have highest magic, etc.).



Lol, same here. :razz: I've always had a RAcast as my main character in these games, but the pervert in me would eventually want to make a female character (most likely Newman) and give her the biggest rack possible. She'd need a lot of "support" magic, though - at least enough Resta to cure the back pain. :wacko:

I could see beast because they were kinda cute,but Dumens hell no.(That's going to far into PSU.)Instant atmosphere killer.I'm not even sure if I want beast in there it just brings up PSU,and that gets under my skin.

SephirothXer0
Apr 28, 2011, 04:32 PM
Honestly I think they should just integrate the Beast's looks as an option for Humans. The transformation was never that useful anyway.

dias_flac_0g
Apr 28, 2011, 05:09 PM
I'm an old school pso fan and as such I must admit, not having the beast race wont bother me much at all.

In PSO for Dreamcast I had a newman and in GC pso I had a RAmarl (Female Human Gunner) which became my main pso char. When I first played PSU (on pc) I made a human for the sole reason that my girl was a human in PSO.

Around the same time that I was on PC I also got the game for 360, but insted made a Beast which the same looks and name as my Human. Long story short I moved to 360 PSU when AOI came out. Ever since I loved my beast much more than my human.

So, do I want them to be in PSO2? Sure that would be really cool. Would it bother me to no end and make PSO2 a fail game? Far from it.

I will just simply make my RAmarl again. It would be cool if I can have a beast version of my human in pso2 though I would make her a fighter with the same name as my human of course :)

Niloklives
Apr 28, 2011, 06:05 PM
Beasts can go. I had several beasts in PSU and PSP and I still don't want them. I just wanted the stats, but tbh I think three races is plenty. Beasts just mucked up the whole thing on so many levels.

I think maybe a few years down the road they could examine adding new races and such, but only after all the kinks were worked out and it would still depend on the structure of the game. Gimme my casts, humans and newmans, and I'm fine.

On another (somewhat of a lolrealism)note, why are people against androids having the highest atp and ata or at least have the most advantageous physical ratios? I mean. it's a freaking robot. synthetic/armored body, machinery instead of muscles, specialized optics and cpus with combat algorithms for targeting and anticipating enemy action and reaction as well as the ability to record and access tons of data on the planet's fauna and common enemies like trained soldiers and assault drones.

Seriously, casts should be superior for melee and ranged combat. From there, humans and newmans offer a balanced and tech heavy variant of class types. What they should do is make sure techs have their proper place so that melee and ranged aren't the only way to do meaningful damage and give races some natural, passive abilities(read: not SUVs/Mirage) that make for different play styles and help establish a need for teamwork. I'm all for balance, but the idea of any fleshy being having the ability to go toe to toe with an android in raw power and accuracy is crazy.

If somehow beasts can be worked into that scheme, then I have no reason to complain, but I'm with Sinue: if we do have a 4th race, make it something less humanoid. Motavians are cool, some other race is fine. Just no more humans with pointy ears and eye patches or tattoos. This takes place in outer space. There's gotta be genuine alien life out there somewhere.

Darki
Apr 28, 2011, 07:31 PM
^I wouldn't care if there weren't beasts (although I would miss my Aura really fucking much), but I'd prefer a 4th race to divide accuracy or power between two races.

I'm sorry, but same that a CAST can have machinery for muscles and target-seeking algorithms programmed in their brains, as you said, why can't be out there a "real alien" strong enough to turn a CAST into junk with no effort? or accuracy?

I think the main problem that never seems to be resolved is the simple relation between attack power being the source of damage for both melee and guns. if they were separated it would make it much easier to balance.

Ishia
Apr 28, 2011, 07:45 PM
SEGA will find someway to implement some sort of furry-interpretation into this game.

Niloklives
Apr 28, 2011, 07:57 PM
^I wouldn't care if there weren't beasts (although I would miss my Aura really fucking much), but I'd prefer a 4th race to divide accuracy or power between two races.

I'm sorry, but same that a CAST can have machinery for muscles and target-seeking algorithms programmed in their brains, as you said, why can't be out there a "real alien" strong enough to turn a CAST into junk with no effort? or accuracy?

I think the main problem that never seems to be resolved is the simple relation between attack power being the source of damage for both melee and guns. if they were separated it would make it much easier to balance.

there would be an alien like that. but what you're saying is that mechanical engineering will always get beat out by nature. the whole point is once we wee a need for advancement, we make progress. a creature comes out that can rip a cast to shreds? we learn to make better casts.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
If beasts ever show up, they better be full-on Kemonomimi.

Anything less and I will be disappoint.

Chimeria
Apr 28, 2011, 09:11 PM
No... I remember reading somewhere that the developers wanted to seperate the two games to keep them as individuals. PSU was never meant to be a sequel to PSO or something like that. And I agreee with that statement. PSU can keep Beasts and all other things associated with that game away from our beloved PSO.

Nothing against them personally but they just don't belong in PSO.

Darki
Apr 28, 2011, 09:22 PM
Maybe your beloved PSO isn't the same as mine.


there would be an alien like that. but what you're saying is that mechanical engineering will always get beat out by nature. the whole point is once we wee a need for advancement, we make progress. a creature comes out that can rip a cast to shreds? we learn to make better casts.

Apparently mechanical engineering never made it out to make better techer CASTs.

If you're telling me that in the game they didn't learn to give CASTs better "brains" than newmans why wouldn't be possible that they didn't learn to make them stronger than this supposedly ubb4rz-strong race either?

Don't take me wrong, I completely understand your point, but game mechanic-wise, I believe it'd be much better to make different "holders" to each offensive type. Maybe it's because I really don't like much seeing too many walking fridges, but I've always though that in MMOs there has to be a balance for everything.

And honestly, if PS had some kind of strategy, maybe it would be good to have "extreme" races and "jack-of-all-trades races, but PSU series proved that they don't seem to know how to do that. Why to be able to use Techs and melee at an average rate when if you play a full fighter you'll deal more damage than any of the hybrid abbilities?

Sadly, I'm a hybrid lover.

PD: I doubt mechanical enginieering will EVER beat nature, at least in many aspects, except by emulation. <_<

Blueblur
Apr 28, 2011, 09:35 PM
I don't care for Beasts at all. There isn't any of note that differentiates them from the other races. And I'm really hoping that they stick to conventional PSO character classes wherein Beasts have no place in.

•Col•
Apr 28, 2011, 10:01 PM
I don't care for Beasts at all. There isn't any of note that differentiates them from the other races. And I'm really hoping that they stick to conventional PSO character classes wherein Beasts have no place in.

..... Really? You don't think the ability to turn into a huge freaking monster is notable? Oh yeah, but I'm sure for you that the Newman's pointy ears is more than enough to differentiate themselves from humans. And there's just SO MANY similarities between Beasts and Casts, right? You're right, Beasts are just way too generic and similiar compared to the other races to even be considered to be added.

/sarcasm

I'm perfectly fine with people not wanting beasts to return, as its all opinion, but what you just said was completely stupid and ignorant.

Ishia
Apr 28, 2011, 10:03 PM
Even I wouldn't have gone that far.

Well, maybe.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 10:07 PM
Even I wouldn't have gone that far.

Well, maybe.

Oh, shush. You have two Beast characters, one of them being 180, and your (current) main. You making fun of Beasts holds zero merit.

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 10:07 PM
Personally, I would like them to look nicer. They also bug me and I don't know why. It wouldn't stop me from enjoying the game though. If "Doesn't care" becomes an unaccepted answer. Then my answer would be no.

Ishia
Apr 28, 2011, 10:08 PM
Hey, Olaf. Shaddup.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 10:09 PM
Ai'ght. :-P

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 10:18 PM
To clarify, I should've said furry kemonomimi.

Because that would easily make them stand out from the rest... ;)

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 10:19 PM
Kemonomimi? Or Anthromorph.

t3hVeG
Apr 28, 2011, 10:22 PM
I'm all for including Beasts as long as SEGA stops making their character models look retarded. (obviously referring to the male beasts)

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 10:29 PM
Beasts were fine the way they were in PSU. Cosmetically, they were just regular people with certain animal-styled features (fuzzy ears and dog-ish noses). No need to go full-blown fursona with them, if they're being put in PSO2.

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 10:31 PM
Yes but people want customization. The choices for beast parts in PSU were limited and IMO ugly.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 10:45 PM
Yes but people want customization. The choices for beast parts in PSU were limited and IMO ugly.

Beast...parts? They weren't CASTs.

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 10:48 PM
What else should I call them? Basically Humes with animal body "parts". Thus i deem them parts.

Blueblur
Apr 28, 2011, 10:56 PM
..... Really? You don't think the ability to turn into a huge freaking monster is notable? Oh yeah, but I'm sure for you that the Newman's pointy ears is more than enough to differentiate themselves from humans. And there's just SO MANY similarities between Beasts and Casts, right? You're right, Beasts are just way too generic and similiar compared to the other races to even be considered to be added.

/sarcasm

I'm perfectly fine with people not wanting beasts to return, as its all opinion, but what you just said was completely stupid and ignorant.
Newmans are not the focus of this thread. But I already accept them because they have a history with the franchise. The same goes with Casts.

[Side note: I'm not a big fan of the human-esque Casts. I feel that their design should adhere to the designs created for PSO Episode 1, 2 and 3; human-like but still mostly robotic.]

As for Beasts, their racial ability, the Nanoblast, is an ill-contrived special ability that really doesn't add anything to the game, IMO. Furthermore, the only other things that make them unique are their different ears, noses and the simple tattoos. They bring nothing new to the table that's worth keeping around. They're just a 4th race with a different set of stats. They're simply superfluous.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 11:01 PM
What else should I call them? Basically Humes with animal body "parts". Thus i deem them parts.

Hey, whatever you want to call them. I don't really understand the thought process.

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:02 PM
Hey, whatever you want to call them. I don't really understand the thought process.

o Ao

What would you call them then?

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 11:03 PM
o Ao

What would you call them then?

Uhh, ears and noses. Because that's what they are. They look more unique than Newmans do, anyway. Not sure why you aren't nitpicking them as well.


Newmans are not the focus of this thread. But I already accept them because they have a history with the franchise. The same goes with Casts.

Beasts have been a part of the franchise for five years now. Not seeing a problem.


They're just a 4th race with a different set of stats. They're simply superfluous.

What's wrong with wanting more races? I don't get it.

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2011, 11:05 PM
If they can balance it, I don't care if they add fish people that can only use sup'd up versions of ice techs and guns.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did add races in later expansions just for the hell of it though.

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:09 PM
Uhh, ears and noses. Because that's what they are. They look more unique than Newmans do, anyway. Not sure why you aren't nitpicking them as well.



Beasts have been a part of the franchise for five years now. Not seeing a problem.



What's wrong with wanting more races? I don't get it.

PSU franchise yeah,keep it away from our PSO.They might turn out cool,but still it makes my skin crawl,and 's really no point in putting them in there,but I can see them doing it for the fans of PSU,even though they dont belong in PSO,so I doubt it.Unless they can make them fit somehow.(We'll have to wait and see.)

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:09 PM
Uhh, ears and noses. Because that's what they are. They look more unique than Newmans do, anyway. Not sure why you aren't nitpicking them as well.


Because I was bored and was just curious lol.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 11:10 PM
PSU franchise yeah,keep it away from our PSO,but they might turn out cool,but still it makes my skin crawl.

I was referring to the Phantasy Star franchise as a whole. Don't try to pick and choose which games go where, and essentially rip the series in two or more pieces. You may not like PSU, but sorry, it's still part of the Phantasy Star franchise.

Blueblur
Apr 28, 2011, 11:12 PM
Beasts have been a part of the franchise for five years now. Not seeing a problem.
The Beast race been part of the PSU franchise for some time now, yes, but not the PSO franchise. Newmans go further back than the last batch of games and their affinity to be proficient with Techniques is much more interesting and creative than Beasts that are just big brutes.



What's wrong with wanting more races? I don't get it.
Quality over quantity. I rather have the other 3 races be more fleshed out and interesting than have 4 homogenized races. That's how the races where in PSU and I disliked that very much.

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 11:15 PM
It's been part of the PSU franchise, yes but not the PSO franchise. Newmans go further back than the last batch of games. and their affinity to be proficient with Techniques is much more interesting and creative than Beasts that are just big brutes.

Once again, someone is trying to rip the franchise in half. Sorry, but Phantasy Star Online is in the same boat as Phantasy Star Universe, no matter which way you cut it. It's part of the legacy. Also, what's wrong with "big brutes"? I like having hard-hitting melee fighters (that aren't robots, mind you). Other games also have "big brute" characters. Hasn't bothered them.


Quality over quantity. I rather have the other 3 races be more fleshed out and interesting than have 4 homogenized races. That's how the races where in PSU and I disliked that very much.

It's not like having one extra race would completely destroy the game. If Sega does things correctly this time around, there's no reason not to have 4, 5, or even 6 races to pick from. I know it most likely won't happen, but still.

Adriano
Apr 28, 2011, 11:18 PM
The Beast race been part of the PSU franchise for some time now, yes, but not the PSO franchise. Newmans go further back than the last batch of games and their affinity to be proficient with Techniques is much more interesting and creative than Beasts that are just big brutes.

What ever happened to people thinking beasts were loosely based off of the motavians?
[spoiler-box]
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/ps4/graphics/characters/gyrz.jpg[/spoiler-box]Very, very loosely.

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:20 PM
Once again, someone is trying to rip the franchise in half. Sorry, but Phantasy Star Online is in the same boat as Phantasy Star Universe, no matter which way you cut it. It's part of the legacy.



It's not like having one extra race would completely destroy the game. If Sega does things correctly this time around, there's no reason not to have 4, 5, or even 6 races to pick from. I know it most likely won't happen, but still.

Yeah I been edited it,PSO and PSU are set in different universes,even though they have the same name Phanasty Star it's still two different stories regardless.(but like I said it doesn't matter to me if there added,as long as shitty dumens don't come in.) I know your trying to defend your favorite race,because I would do the same thing. @Ariando yeah something about them being the beast being the spiritual successor or something,but if they do add them I hope they make them look cooler. Again I have no problem's with beast.They need a PSO make over though if they do make it in.

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2011, 11:23 PM
God, why couldn't they just call it Phantasy Star Galaxy like everyone suspected. :S

They've been spamming the word Galaxy anyway.

Adriano
Apr 28, 2011, 11:24 PM
God, why couldn't they just call it Phantasy Star Galaxy like everyone suspected. :S

They've been spamming the word Galaxy anyway.
Come now, they have to save something for the expansion.

Blueblur
Apr 28, 2011, 11:25 PM
Once again, someone is trying to rip the franchise in half. Sorry, but Phantasy Star Online is in the same boat as Phantasy Star Universe, no matter which way you cut it. It's part of the legacy. Also, what's wrong with "big brutes"? I like having hard-hitting melee fighters (that aren't robots, mind you). Other games also have "big brute" characters. Hasn't bothered them.
For me, big brute characters are an unattractive concept that's been done to death. There's nothing unique about it and because of it Beasts end up being a race that is mostly characterized by having higher attack stats I am completely uninterested in their presence in PSU and in future games. Furthermore, Casts already filled that role in PSO so Beasts are superfluous in this instance.


It's not like having one extra race would completely destroy the game. If Sega does things correctly this time around, there's no reason not to have 4, 5, or even 6 races to pick from. I know it most likely won't happen, but still.
Hold on. Let me make something clear, if Sega were to give proper attention to each race and find ways to make them feel and play unique then I would not be opposed to a 4th race. But I very much doubt that they're capable of such a feat.

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:27 PM
For me, big brute characters are an unattractive concept that's been done to death. There's nothing unique about it and because of it Beasts end up being a race that is mostly characterized by having higher attack stats I am completely uninterested in their presence in PSU and in future games. Furthermore, Casts already filled that role in PSO so Beasts are superfluous in this instance.


Let me make something clear, if Sega were to give proper attention to each race and find ways to make them feel and play unique then I would not be opposed to a 4th race. But I very much doubt that they're capable of such a feat.
Yup and it all comes to balance in the end.

Skye-Fox713
Apr 28, 2011, 11:30 PM
One thing I find interesting is that in some concept art for Beasts they have tails, and If I could add one feature to them I would give them a tail with a few different options for different animal types (Lion, cat, wolf, fox).

I would very much like Beasts to be part of PSO2 so I can continue my character from PSO->PSU->PSO2 from a fictional standpoint. If not I will be quite disappointed and go with a RAmarl.

•Col•
Apr 28, 2011, 11:33 PM
Newmans are not the focus of this thread. But I already accept them because they have a history with the franchise. The same goes with Casts.

[Side note: I'm not a big fan of the human-esque Casts. I feel that their design should adhere to the designs created for PSO Episode 1, 2 and 3; human-like but still mostly robotic.]

As for Beasts, their racial ability, the Nanoblast, is an ill-contrived special ability that really doesn't add anything to the game, IMO. Furthermore, the only other things that make them unique are their different ears, noses and the simple tattoos. They bring nothing new to the table that's worth keeping around. They're just a 4th race with a different set of stats. They're simply superfluous.

I know that Newmans arent the focus of the thread, but I was just using them as an example to say that Beasts are more unique than them.

I say we remove Newmans. The only thing that makes them unique are their different ears. They're just a 3rd race with a different set of stats. They're simply superfluous.

Seriously, explain to me how Newmans are more unique than Beasts?

BIG OLAF
Apr 28, 2011, 11:33 PM
For me, big brute characters are an unattractive concept that's been done to death. There's nothing unique about it and because of it Beasts end up being a race that is mostly characterized by having higher attack stats I am completely uninterested in their presence in PSU and in future games. Furthermore, Casts already filled that role in PSO so Beasts are superfluous in this instance.

Well, you feel the way you do, and I feel the way I do. Beasts are my absolute favorite race, for two reasons:

1. I love hard-hitting tank fighters. I always play an uber-powerful melee class in just about every single RPG I've ever played, and ever will play.

2. Beast females, in my opinion, are extremely attractive. Yes, I know that sounds lame, but that's me. You can tell by the monstrous photo album on my profile page how much I enjoy them.

Also, the reason I wasn't (and still am not) big into CAST fighters is simply the lack of clothing options. As I've stated before, I'm a big, big customization buff. That being said, CAST's lack of cosmetic options left them in a kind of "meh" state to me. So, I like rough-and-tumble melee fighters, yet want as many clothing options as possible? Beasts were for me. And, as I've also stated previously, if PSO2 doesn't have clothing customization, Sega can kiss my ass. I won't buy PSO2 if that's the case. I digress.

So, obviously I would like to see Beasts included in PSO2. Will they be? Probably not. Will that piss me off beyond all logical reasoning? Damn straight.

t3hVeG
Apr 28, 2011, 11:37 PM
God, why couldn't they just call it Phantasy Star Galaxy like everyone suspected. :S

They've been spamming the word Galaxy anyway.

Well you can still consider PSO2 to be similar to Galaxy considering PSO2 isn't set in either the Ragol or Gurhal systems, instead it's supposed to be set in a much larger setting with many planets.

Wayu
Apr 28, 2011, 11:38 PM
Seriously, explain to me how Newmans are more unique than Beasts?

They're equally "unique". They both have strengths and weaknesses. They both have different ears.

Anything beyond that is either personal opinion and/or just wanting to ignite flames.

-Wayu

Niloklives
Apr 28, 2011, 11:39 PM
Maybe your beloved PSO isn't the same as mine.



Apparently mechanical engineering never made it out to make better techer CASTs.

If you're telling me that in the game they didn't learn to give CASTs better "brains" than newmans why wouldn't be possible that they didn't learn to make them stronger than this supposedly ubb4rz-strong race either?

Don't take me wrong, I completely understand your point, but game mechanic-wise, I believe it'd be much better to make different "holders" to each offensive type. Maybe it's because I really don't like much seeing too many walking fridges, but I've always though that in MMOs there has to be a balance for everything.

And honestly, if PS had some kind of strategy, maybe it would be good to have "extreme" races and "jack-of-all-trades races, but PSU series proved that they don't seem to know how to do that. Why to be able to use Techs and melee at an average rate when if you play a full fighter you'll deal more damage than any of the hybrid abbilities?

Sadly, I'm a hybrid lover.

PD: I doubt mechanical enginieering will EVER beat nature, at least in many aspects, except by emulation. <_<


maybe there's a biological element to techs? something like midibullshit or whatever (lol starwars). let me know when you can legitimate out arm wrestle a professionally built robot that uses a simple counter weight mechanism. a small industrial motor would dislocate your shoulder. in the realm of scifi, there are near indestructible metals, rare elements with absurd energy production properties and unfathomable techniques for building tiny servos with enough torque to lift over a metric ton. any alien that can out perform that won't be playable, it will be the final boss.

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:40 PM
They're equally "unique". They both have strengths and weaknesses. They both have different ears.

Anything beyond that is either personal opinion and/or just wanting to ignite flames.

-Wayu

This right here.

•Col•
Apr 28, 2011, 11:47 PM
They're equally "unique". They both have strengths and weaknesses. They both have different ears.

Anything beyond that is either personal opinion and/or just wanting to ignite flames.

-Wayu

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't see how someone could possibly argue that Beasts shouldn't be in PSO2 because they're "not unique". -_-

Corey Blue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:50 PM
They didn't show anything relating to beast in the concept art,but you never know what might happen,but like I said they need a serious make over,slap some muscles on them and put them in PSO outfits lmao.There's your beast and all it's muscle glory.I will lol so hard if they do this.

GameKyuubi
Apr 29, 2011, 12:03 AM
Not really. I think they are redundant.