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View Full Version : I hope they don't go charging for online access



ShinMaruku
Jan 9, 2011, 01:17 AM
The previous PSO/PSU idea of charging for online content was utter laughable, I understand they try to piggy back off MMOs bu MMOs actually have now content and changes and even most of them are iffy on cost with their free to play pay for certain things options seems to be the wave of the future.

BIG OLAF
Jan 9, 2011, 01:21 AM
We live in a day and age where nothing (or very, very little) is free. Don't expect PSO2 to be free-to-play online.

SStrikerR
Jan 9, 2011, 01:24 AM
Of course they will.

Forever Zero
Jan 9, 2011, 02:19 AM
They probably will charge for online access. It's not a big deal really. /shrug

Chaobo99
Jan 9, 2011, 02:26 AM
I understood very little of that. but ya, don't expect a Phantasy STar game to be online and free at the same time. That's total blasphemy.

ShinMaruku
Jan 9, 2011, 02:30 AM
Of course they will.
And what happened to all the other games that try that happens, they will get crushed by better implementations.

They give no reason why it is p2p. If they took Turbine's way it probably would do very well.

ChronoTrigga
Jan 9, 2011, 02:38 AM
I don't mind as long as more than 2*'s worth of people actually play.

NoiseHERO
Jan 9, 2011, 08:43 AM
W-why wouldn't they?

As long as they DON'T make it cash-shop (especially rotational cash shop) It should be fine.

Although...I think a properly done free trial would be genius...

I dunno how the demo worked out, but letter people on the main servers for a couple weeks free would probably work way better. I just don't know what they'd do about the disc/digital purchase (probably make you buy them anyway.) >3>

Of course theres always like a 10-day free trial but nobody feels like buying the game and pulling out their mothers/friends/own credit card to make an account and a false purchase...

Especially if the offline story sucks, but that's more of a PSU backfire. PSO offline MADE you want to go online.

Tetsaru
Jan 9, 2011, 09:44 AM
It all depends on how well the game is managed. If they actually use the money towards frequent, meaningful updates (I'd say AT LEAST once a month), and keep all regions and servers on the same level, then I wouldn't mind paying $10-$15 or so a month for it. However, if they pull the same shit that they did in PSU, then they damn well better make it F2P. I'm not paying that much for a glorified chatroom where you can beat up the same reskinned enemies on different difficulty levels every 10 minutes...

As for a free trial, I'd say make the first month free upon subscribing. That should give people plenty of time to get used to the game and make up their minds on whether or not they like it enough to keep funding it.

Googlebonker
Jan 9, 2011, 06:08 PM
Charging for an individual online RPG makes sense; there`s ususally development and support staff that needs to be paid, electricity bills for running multiple servers, server maintenance, and, of course, much-wanted business profit.

If what you mean are a bunch of microtransactions, then, no. I hope not. This microtransaction thing might work for games like Farmville, but I think PSU/O fans wouldn`t be too keen on the idea.

ShinMaruku
Jan 9, 2011, 06:54 PM
It all depends on how well the game is managed. If they actually use the money towards frequent, meaningful updates (I'd say AT LEAST once a month), and keep all regions and servers on the same level, then I wouldn't mind paying $10-$15 or so a month for it. However, if they pull the same shit that they did in PSU, then they damn well better make it F2P. I'm not paying that much for a glorified chatroom where you can beat up the same reskinned enemies on different difficulty levels every 10 minutes...

As for a free trial, I'd say make the first month free upon subscribing. That should give people plenty of time to get used to the game and make up their minds on whether or not they like it enough to keep funding it.
Will the EVER do that? Which Japanese developer ever do that? From past experience have then done that. All readings point to no. They have never given such a reason to charge for online. It's not like maintaining servers is much like developing content. Unlocking things already made that is on disc is lazy and stupid.
Micros transactions are not bad if done the turbine way. They have made much better MMOs than Sega ever has. Then you have WoW which may not be the best in all categories but all parts of it are polished well. Then you have FF14 that abortion of a MMO which is for all intents and purposed free to play.

This day and age unless you can upstage Blizzard pay to play just makes you look silly.

Anon_Fire
Jan 9, 2011, 07:35 PM
If they were going to make it P2P, they need to make it:

$8.99/month, including a 30-day free trial



How do expect them to keep the servers alive if it was F2P with no microstansactions?

keizeh
Jan 9, 2011, 08:28 PM
I want them to charge.
Why is that?
It means someones getting paid, and if someones getting paid they are working on updates for the game.
Or at least that's what I hope it will be.

Kent
Jan 9, 2011, 09:11 PM
All of the reasons for PSO and PSU to require monthly fees have been utter crap, and could easily be avoided had they designed the games to not actually need such a thing. Obvious comparisons for the two are Diablo II for the former, and Guild Wars for the latter (because those are the most-similar styles of games we have to them). Neither of those has a monthly fee, and both of them have relatively simple ways of actually handling the fact that they don't need them.

The focus around a monthly fee is an unnecessary relic of the design of these kinds of non-MMO games, and is put into them for the sole purpose of monetizing the game by charging people regularly for continued access - particularly if they try to pull the crap they did with PSU, by charging players and not giving them access to a majority of the on-disc content in the first place.

ShinMaruku
Jan 9, 2011, 11:50 PM
All of the reasons for PSO and PSU to require monthly fees have been utter crap, and could easily be avoided had they designed the games to not actually need such a thing. Obvious comparisons for the two are Diablo II for the former, and Guild Wars for the latter (because those are the most-similar styles of games we have to them). Neither of those has a monthly fee, and both of them have relatively simple ways of actually handling the fact that they don't need them.

The focus around a monthly fee is an unnecessary relic of the design of these kinds of non-MMO games, and is put into them for the sole purpose of monetizing the game by charging people regularly for continued access - particularly if they try to pull the crap they did with PSU, by charging players and not giving them access to a majority of the on-disc content in the first place.
Amen.
You put this better than I could have.
Just accepting because you accept is just crazy.

Kimil Adrayne
Jan 10, 2011, 10:26 PM
Amen.
You put this better than I could have.
Just accepting because you accept is just crazy.

In all likely hood, it will be p2p and there really isn't much to do other than accept this charge to play. If you'd chose to not accept the charge, then you'll just have to not play the game.

I don't agree with the charge as nothing has given right to its existence. But I want to play in their playground so its their rules.

Anon_Fire
Jan 10, 2011, 10:40 PM
All of the reasons for PSO and PSU to require monthly fees have been utter crap, and could easily be avoided had they designed the games to not actually need such a thing. Obvious comparisons for the two are Diablo II for the former, and Guild Wars for the latter (because those are the most-similar styles of games we have to them). Neither of those has a monthly fee, and both of them have relatively simple ways of actually handling the fact that they don't need them.

The focus around a monthly fee is an unnecessary relic of the design of these kinds of non-MMO games, and is put into them for the sole purpose of monetizing the game by charging people regularly for continued access - particularly if they try to pull the crap they did with PSU, by charging players and not giving them access to a majority of the on-disc content in the first place.

Then how is SEGA gonna be paid for Maintenance periods, bugfixes, etc?

If you don't want to pay for a game that may become P2P, then don't bother playing it.

ShinMaruku
Jan 10, 2011, 10:54 PM
You know various other games do that without charging and those games are much better than PS games have been in the last 6 years?
Bug fixes do not need to be charged for, if the server and the game is made well, server maintainable will be a very small bill in development costs.
I guess you like being ripped off by Sega's bullshit.

Jepp027
Jan 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
I hated paying for the Hunters Licence originally. If they can make it profitable with advertising I am all for that. That way it avoids the fees. I have never played it on PC mind you, but I would consider it if the game appealed to me.

Anon_Fire
Jan 10, 2011, 11:00 PM
You know various other games do that without charging and those games are much better than PS games have been in the last 6 years?
Bug fixes do not need to be charged for, if the server and the game is made well, server maintainable will be a very small bill in development costs.
I guess you like being ripped off by Sega's bullshit.

You guys are gonna have to wait until more PSO2 information comes out, We still don't know if it'll be P2P or F2P. Just be patient.

Radongerbil
Jan 11, 2011, 12:14 AM
All of the reasons for PSO and PSU to require monthly fees have been utter crap, and could easily be avoided had they designed the games to not actually need such a thing. Obvious comparisons for the two are Diablo II for the former, and Guild Wars for the latter (because those are the most-similar styles of games we have to them). Neither of those has a monthly fee, and both of them have relatively simple ways of actually handling the fact that they don't need them.

The focus around a monthly fee is an unnecessary relic of the design of these kinds of non-MMO games, and is put into them for the sole purpose of monetizing the game by charging people regularly for continued access - particularly if they try to pull the crap they did with PSU, by charging players and not giving them access to a majority of the on-disc content in the first place.

I agree with this assessment and would like to add that this sort of Guild Wars route is the best way to go, Phantasy Star imo is just not suited to be a P2P game, a premium mode that ups xp and drops a bit maybe but not P2P.

Buy to play is the way to go, for outside Japan anyway imo, no idea if it'll be sub-optimal in Japan/East Asia.

If they go P2P they'll get paying yeah, there is the niche fanbase after all, but that will I sacrifice the possiblity of growth into a big thing, especially if they actually end up with a fun combat system for PSO2 and don't just be lazy and uninspired with it.

Kimil Adrayne
Jan 11, 2011, 12:55 AM
It doesn't matter what other games do or how ridiculous Sega is with P2P for content worth less than F2P games on the same market; they will do what they as a corporation decide to. Will they continue being the Segac that we've come to expect? I sure hope not but am expecting entirely (why get my hopes up like I did for PSU?). Complaints or pointing out flaws (especially in a language other than Japanese) will never reach their ears anyways, I'll waste my energies on something else.

I HOPE its not P2P, don't get me wrong - considering their updates have never been worth it - but I highly doubt they'll change. Why? Because they never stopped making money of the JP servers in the past. I don't know specific population numbers, but they never lowered nearly as bad as our did. PSO BB JP only closed down in December! And its speculated that this had to do with PSO2 coming this year.

ShinMaruku
Jan 11, 2011, 01:25 AM
There are various ways of making money other than that fee.
They could have much more money in the long run if it's designed properly.

venn2010
Jan 11, 2011, 01:33 AM
They could have much more money in the long run if it's designed properly.

But this Sega we're talking about here... somehow "designed properly" just doesn't seem compatible with our beloved Sega...

Zer078
Jan 11, 2011, 02:51 AM
Lets see content that was already on the disk(PSU), lack of end game (IE raids), yea i stop playing PSO after they started charging in v2 (which had less content then (The Legacy of Ykesha EQ mini expansion) mind you. granted things were limited by the VMU memory(200KB if i recall). if theres a monthly fee there better be full outside non instanced world (psu world dont count )

ShinMaruku
Jan 11, 2011, 08:32 AM
But this Sega we're talking about here... somehow "designed properly" just doesn't seem compatible with our beloved Sega...
Well the Platinum games work. As does the Yakuza games. Are you implying Sonic team is a shitty developer? XD

Unit_24
Jan 11, 2011, 12:58 PM
I rather pay because if no one pays, it is hard to update content and keep the servers going and Cash Shops ruin games because there need to be things that people want to buy and those things normally break the balance of games. It is a game to you but a piggy bank to them.

It's not like any of the PSO only costs where as much as the other games either.

KaffeKane
Jan 11, 2011, 03:36 PM
Are you implying Sonic team is a shitty developer? XD

That's what a lot of people imply. And I'm not sure how Sonic Team can clean that kind of a tarnished rep up.

DOUBLE EDIT: OH HAI I FORGOT MY TOPIC DIVIDER HURR HURR

-----------

EDIT: Bringing it back to the topic...I don't care if they were to charge for services. I paid for PSO:BB. I paid for PSU. I would pay for PSO2 IF it comes to the US. I want it to come to the US.

If they have to find a way to make money off of the US players, other than charging the near $60 pricetag for software nowadays, and packing a serial key that makes it YOUR COPY AND YOURS ALONE for online play, then it would have to be by monthly fees.

If they did both at the same time, it would be ludicrous--they'd get a bit in the short term, but then some people would be disgusted with why they're paying for something that might disappoint them. If they did either or, they could still have the potential a decent amount of money.

I think that if they went the D2 and GW route, they could stand to make something that, even if it would have a large up-front cost, doesn't really have to be paid for beyond that in order to enjoy.
If they went the monthly fees route, then perhaps going back to the classic fee of PSO:BB, which was $8.99/9.99(?)--I can't remember which--then they've got something that can bring money in based on how many people are paying for it. Include a trial period. Grab their attention, and see if they want to continue playing.

I really want to see this game come here. I don't care what charges they have to put up in order to make it worth their while to bring it here.

RedRaz0r
Jan 12, 2011, 09:19 PM
If they make it free to play, I'm not going to play. Free to play games suck, and give the company more of a reason to have cash shops. The last thing I want is to play a game where you can pay your way through it.

Wayu
Jan 12, 2011, 10:13 PM
Random irrevelant comment: on the forum mainpage, it only says "I hope they don't go charging..." and I immediately thought...

"I hope they don't go charging MAH LAZOR."

^^;

-Wayu

ShinMaruku
Jan 13, 2011, 01:47 AM
If they make it free to play, I'm not going to play. Free to play games suck, and give the company more of a reason to have cash shops. The last thing I want is to play a game where you can pay your way through it.

You have not tried Turbine games haven't you?
Generalizations make me laugh my ass off.

Chaobo99
Jan 13, 2011, 03:12 AM
You have not tried Turbine games haven't you?
Generalizations make me laugh my ass off.

Well, out of the vast ocean of mmos F2P, more then 90% of them kind of suck. That's not to say all F2P games suck though.

Zeroske
Jan 13, 2011, 03:43 PM
As long as they make a freakin offline mode where I don't have to use internet to play (my PSU cpu version) I don't care.

I doubt they will make it f2p, would be cool if they did though.

Darki
Jan 14, 2011, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't care it to be F2P IF they made the "Premiun course" and the "Free course" as well as in PSU JP. Maybe not so radical, but well, I wouldn't care to have limited content when in "off terms" when I don't have money or no need to trade, shop or stuff,, and when I have some cash and there's an event or I feel more active, get the pack. But no cash shop. purease...

TheAstarion
Jan 14, 2011, 04:13 PM
Turbine's got a nice deal going where the game is F2P, and just about all the best gear is from free areas at high level. Updates are regular, and contain both free and paid content, and content is delivered in microtransactions where you buy a race, or a class, or a mission pack, for the same kind of price as DLC for offline games.

And to top it off, they have a subscriber option where all actual content is free to subscribers, AND they get free money each month with which to pay for cash shop items.

IMO cash shops for items are overpriced, but for playable content like new areas, missions, classes and races it's a great way to squeeze more money out of people who actually like the game... and if I like a free game (DDO, Perfect World), I'm likely to drop $20 on add-ons that will let me play the game "my way".

PSUJP's Free Course is pretty ironfisted though. The things they can't do are pretty drastic, but since PSU doesn't have as much content as the big MMOs, it's kinda to be expected.

Darki
Jan 14, 2011, 04:42 PM
That's what I'm saying. I don't want it as it's now in PSU where most of the weapons you get in the cash mission are ubb4rz. Another thing is that "rares" in PSU are not too much of a rares, many of them, so from my point of view there sould be a balance between the usefulness of cash related items and real rares.

For example, the most powerful weapons shouldn't be cash items, they should be pwn3some impossible weapons to get, items absolutely priceless if you get them due to it's rareness and usefulness. Cash related content should be useful and good-looking enough to make people pay for it if they want good equip in no time, but NOTHING should substitute rare items gainde through hard work and countless hours of gameplay.

For example, most cash items should be like now: clothes, apperance stuff...

KaffeKane
Jan 14, 2011, 04:56 PM
Random irrevelant comment: on the forum mainpage, it only says "I hope they don't go charging..." and I immediately thought...

"I hope they don't go charging MAH LAZOR."

^^;

-Wayu

You've made my day.

Kurono
Jan 14, 2011, 07:33 PM
Il'd be happy paying from day one if it had regular content updates that aren't disc unlocks. New areas, New quests, random new weapons, even some visual upgrades depending on what they allow you to have, like rooms etc.

ShinMaruku
Jan 14, 2011, 10:30 PM
Well, out of the vast ocean of mmos F2P, more then 90% of them kind of suck. That's not to say all F2P games suck though.
90% of all games suck. :P

Anon_Fire
Jan 15, 2011, 01:20 AM
90% of all games suck. :P

Are you afraid that SEGA's gonna screw up with PSO2?

Is that why you don't want P2P?

Look, I've paid for both PSO:BB and PSU

ShinMaruku
Jan 15, 2011, 03:49 AM
You would pay for shit?
XD
This is why the games really don't grow, their excuses for paying for online was total and utter bullshit.

KaffeKane
Jan 15, 2011, 03:09 PM
Well, out of the vast ocean of mmos F2P, more then 90% of them kind of suck. That's not to say all F2P games suck though.

No. Not all of them do...

But I do hate the ones that don't even let you blacklist/ignore RMT characters. They flood the chat, making it impossible to use. Those are the ones that suck, they're that freaking unbearable.

Heartz
Jan 15, 2011, 03:41 PM
As much as I like the term "free", it really should not apply to this particular Phantasy Star Online. The game may introduce microtransactions, but I don't believe that will be their method in gaining revenue. Sega knows its fanbase. They know fans will be willing to pay for the game. Optimistically, the game will be supported at the utmost effort unlike the previous installments.

Dongra
Jan 15, 2011, 03:46 PM
Optimistically, the game will be supported at the utmost effort unlike the previous installments.
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... phew. If we don't have global servers then at least the Japanese can look forward to actually having support.

Seth Astra
Jan 15, 2011, 04:05 PM
I don't really mind a monthly fee, TBH.

My oppinion on how the cost should be handled:
$5-10 montly fee.
Regularly updated cash shop for Unique Clothing, Room Decorations, Visual Units, etc. (While still giving plenty of GOOD options available regularly).
NO cash shop for playable content.

This allows players who are willing to spend the extra cash to get any of these rare itmes they want. However, I devoutly oppose the idea of paying for any playable content, since this will, after a fashion, force the player to buy this content if they want to be able to stack up against other players. That's just my oppinion on that whole thing... What gives me the feeling I have posted this before?

HUkyasuto Mk.2
Jan 15, 2011, 04:08 PM
Keep in mind no $ means slower updates. Or so it's said.



NO cash shop for playable content.

Please, dont do that. Let me put it this way, Cash Shop = No fun in my opinion.

Kurono
Jan 15, 2011, 04:08 PM
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... phew. If we don't have global servers then at least the Japanese can look forward to actually having support.

To be fair. It's not as if we've had an online Phantasy Star game with significant downloadable updates. We've mearly had disc unlocks. Granted Japan had more, but if anything it seemed more like to me Sega of America holding stuff back in a desperate attempt to get more PSU subscribers.

HUkyasuto Mk.2
Jan 15, 2011, 04:10 PM
but if anything it seemed more like to me Sega of America holding stuff back in a desperate attempt to get more PSU subscribers.

Which doesn't seem to be doing well from what I've heard.

ShinMaruku
Jan 16, 2011, 12:05 AM
You guys also seem to have a perception problem, if something is called such it must be worse or better. Never so clear and black and white.

Darki
Jan 16, 2011, 10:51 AM
SEGAC knows we will pay for the game at least for some time. They're lazy and sometimes incompetent, but they're not idiots. I don't know how but I'm sure we will pay for something (apart from the disc, I mean). Call it cash shop, premium course or the whole game.

Why wouldn't they make it P2P knowing we will pay?

Kurono
Jan 16, 2011, 02:43 PM
Which doesn't seem to be doing well from what I've heard.

Indeed, must of seemed like a brilliant idea in the Sega offices at the time.
Maybe they'l learn from their mistakes and provide a solid service.

Shadownami92
Jan 20, 2011, 09:26 AM
Personally I feel like if they are gonna have it p2p they should at least step it up and be more involved with the community. Maybe weapon/clothing design contest here and there and have the winning entries actually made and released during updates. And maybe even some holiday events and stuff with nice prizes like a free month of playing the game.

Either way, if they do make it P2P I would prefer if they had some sort of gift card or something I could buy at a store so those that don't have credit cards could still get the game.

ShinMaruku
Jan 21, 2011, 08:59 PM
They would never go so in-depth and I doubt they will have content to justify paying for online servers. Japan lags in that regard, they make expansions if they want a good flow of money release those and sell em, they will spike profits.