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Milla
Apr 8, 2011, 12:31 PM
One of the major things i was turned off by when i switched to PSU from PSO was the fact ALOT of the games content (Lv caps, items, missions, etc) was locked on the disc and released as "New content" monthly.

I personally preferred everything available from the get go, still i can understand Sega wanting the game to have a lasting appeal and giving players reason to stick around. So what do you guys think?

BIG OLAF
Apr 8, 2011, 12:39 PM
Well, I think the beginning level cap in PSO2 should be a hell of a lot higher than 50 (the beginning level cap in PSU). But, I don't think SEGA should give players everything in one fell swoop. It's nice to have updates and new things to strive for.

PSU's problem wasn't the "locked content". It was more so SEGA's inability to unlock said "locked content" regularly.

Dongra
Apr 8, 2011, 01:09 PM
I'd rather have a full game to explore and have to wait a few months for brand new content than have a small fraction of the game from the start and have it slowly unlocked every month.

NoiseHERO
Apr 8, 2011, 01:43 PM
I thought the beginning level cap in psu was like 30 or 40 something... @[email protected]

I swear I remember it becoming 50 in an update...either that or it just took forever for people to reach 50...

But yeah, no locked disc crap. 10 bucks a month for only 20% of a game is scam status.

Especially when it take 3 years to get an ugly 9* weapon to come out, that's been modified to be 11* or something.

RemiusTA
Apr 8, 2011, 02:30 PM
One of the major things i was turned off by when i switched to PSU from PSO was the fact ALOT of the games content (Lv caps, items, missions, etc) was locked on the disc and released as "New content" monthly.

I personally preferred everything available from the get go, still i can understand Sega wanting the game to have a lasting appeal and giving players reason to stick around. So what do you guys think?

This was done specifically because Sega though it'd be a good idea. Also because the game was basically unfinished and lacked significant content anyway.


I doubt they'll do it again with PSO2. Then again, nobody can be sure.

Akaimizu
Apr 8, 2011, 02:45 PM
I think so too. The locked content was a PSU-specific issue. Even PSP2 didn't really get caught by that issue. In PSP2, content was mainly locked from you the right way. Because you didn't reach the requirements to get at it. Everything else was simply bonuses and additional stuff they decided to really add to the game. For the US, to a lesser amount but also to a larger amount. So you basically get most of what the Japanese got in total, from day one. You just needed to spend a good amount of hours and real playtime to earn your right to see them.

Juza
Apr 8, 2011, 03:45 PM
One of the major things i was turned off by when i switched to PSU from PSO was the fact ALOT of the games content (Lv caps, items, missions, etc) was locked on the disc and released as "New content" monthly.

This wasn't a PSU-specific problem. I still can't access a great deal of content on my copy of PSO without the use of a Gameshark.

Thankfully, PSO2 is PC only. But even if that were to change, the only viable consoles at this point have local storage and game updatability by default. There's no longer a technological need to stack the game with to-be-released-in-the-future content. (*coughPS2cough*)

With any luck, the only locking that will occur will be time/special event-based stuff, which I've got no problems with - I can wait til December to get a photon-decorated Christmas Tree.

Ceresa
Apr 8, 2011, 03:57 PM
I think so too. The locked content was a PSU-specific issue. Even PSP2 didn't really get caught by that issue. In PSP2, content was mainly locked from you the right way. Because you didn't reach the requirements to get at it. Everything else was simply bonuses and additional stuff they decided to really add to the game. For the US, to a lesser amount but also to a larger amount. So you basically get most of what the Japanese got in total, from day one. You just needed to spend a good amount of hours and real playtime to earn your right to see them.

There were quite a few items in PSP2 JP, and now in infinity, that are on the disc but unavailable until future DL missions. In PSP2 JP case, the Edel weapons weren't available for nearly 10 months after release. Other popular things like World of Guardians all the MAX rewards were 6 months after release. Dark Flow and other things in PSP2i aren't out yet now...and so on.

Pretty clear they're trying to string the players along so they can keep putting out overpriced DL items instead of an overpriced subscription.

It's a sad joke from a fucking sad company, locked content will be here forever.

Milla
Apr 8, 2011, 04:12 PM
There were quite a few items in PSP2 JP, and now in infinity, that are on the disc but unavailable until future DL missions. In PSP2 JP case, the Edel weapons weren't available for nearly 10 months after release. Other popular things like World of Guardians all the MAX rewards were 6 months after release. Dark Flow and other things in PSP2i aren't out yet now...and so on.

Pretty clear they're trying to string the players along so they can keep putting out overpriced DL items instead of an overpriced subscription.

It's a sad joke from a fucking sad company, locked content will be here forever.

Sadly its not just Sega the recent Marvel Vs Capcom 3 also has content on disc that we need to to pay for to unlock (I knows theres loads more just was using it as an example).

I dont really like this trend of on disc DLC and hopefully it doesnt get otta hand. :(

Akaimizu
Apr 8, 2011, 04:50 PM
At least, in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, it seems they really didn't finish the code on the disc, so it does indeed need supplemental patch or data to work as expected. But you're right. It does seem like they'd rather charge the DLC than to have people wait another week or so, on the release, to get it all with the game.

Blueblur
Apr 8, 2011, 08:13 PM
Unlock keys that you have to pay for to unlock content on a disc is a damn plague on this industry. I couldn't agree more with you guys.

Zyrusticae
Apr 8, 2011, 08:25 PM
I don't understand why basic respect is such an alien concept in the games industry.

It's gotten to the point where companies that show any respect at all, i.e. CCP, CD Projekt, Valve, Blizzard, etc., are pretty much heroes in a cesspool filled with disgusting abominations of self-loathing bureaucracy. The big-budget games industry is in such a sad state.

NoiseHERO
Apr 8, 2011, 08:50 PM
I thought the video game industry died and stop being creative the second this current generation was born and PS2 stop being dominant. :0

ChronoTrigga
Apr 9, 2011, 01:18 AM
Unless they make a game that actually releases updates instead of unlocking pre-existing content, I'm gonna have to forego this Phantasy Star and just stick to not ever playing an online RPG ever again. PSO2 is the last straw for me when it comes to online RPGs....well...that and Diablo 3/Dungeon Siege 3.

Kion
Apr 9, 2011, 01:25 AM
I wouldn't mind locked content if they did it right. Start off with a level cap of 100 most areas unlocked. Wait half a year (maybe with seasonal changes, and a few cooperative missions added to the mix). Build up to an event which has a story, which introduces new areas for content update level 150 cap, 80% of the area unlocked. More, story, another event level 200, mega-relics-death-awesomeness levels 95% of disk content unlocked.

After that the game is pretty much done expansion and or optional content for challenge mode, stat boosts, easter eggs, other implementation of the game engine stuff.

In PSU I think they took the wrong approach of trying to spoon feed everything. It would be nice to get massive amounts of content at one time and then have small updates here and there to keep things interesting.

yoshiblue
Apr 9, 2011, 01:56 AM
Best way is to release them like an expansion pack i guess. Download one every so months.

Zarode
Apr 9, 2011, 02:50 AM
Funny, before PSU, there was PSO, and it had no way to move out large updates.

Yet there were new quests released on a monthly basis.

Hmm...

Randomness
Apr 9, 2011, 03:18 AM
Funny, before PSU, there was PSO, and it had no way to move out large updates.

Yet there were new quests released on a monthly basis.

Hmm...

Lets be honest, those consisted solely of text files and some data for map layout (which, given PSO's design, could have easily been done in text files!). On a data size measure, tiny tiny tiny.

To be fair, most of PSU's quests fit that description too.

However, PSU had entire regions unavailable at launch. For the first couple months.

Lunariancrystal
Apr 9, 2011, 08:54 AM
Didnt bother reading through the entire post but PSO had the same issue as your talking about.

There were tons of weapons that were never "Unlocked" in PSO. Olga Flow DNA was never unlocked in US versions of PSO... Was retarded as hell.

Randomness
Apr 9, 2011, 12:20 PM
Didnt bother reading through the entire post but PSO had the same issue as your talking about.

There were tons of weapons that were never "Unlocked" in PSO. Olga Flow DNA was never unlocked in US versions of PSO... Was retarded as hell.

PSO had some weapons never released that existed in the game data.
PSU launched with over 1/3 of the areas in the game data completely inaccessible for months.

Tetsaru
Apr 9, 2011, 12:54 PM
The whole idea of locked content is retarded as hell. Why put something on the game if you're not going to use it, or delay using it? It's just another way for gaming companies to extort more money from the consumer and suspend their interest in the game ("Man, I can't wait for *insert offline content here* to come out online!" *pays for another month*).

I remember that the Killer Elite rifle was in the original PSU game offline from the start, but I was never able to get one until a few months before the PC/PS2 servers were taken down - around 2 years later. One of the partner machines got it before we did. There is absolutely NO reason why this shit should happen... It's like if you went out of town to eat at a nice restaurant and paid for a full meal in advance, but you could only eat your appetizer now, you had to sit and wait over an hour for your main course to arrive (which they got wrong and had to correct, btw), and you could only eat your dessert if you took it home and kept it in your freezer for a month first, only to find it rotten and unappealing when the time came to eat it... yet the guy sitting across from you was able to pay for a full meal for him and his whole family for the same price, got what he ordered all within 20 minutes, was able eat his dessert whenever he wanted, and also received a coupon for his next meal, only because he lived in that town.

If PSO2 is to be successful, this is one of the major design issues Sega will have to focus on to avoid repeating their mistakes with PSU. If the game has an offline mode, put EVERYTHING in it online upon release, and have the development team working their asses off to provide something new at least once a month, to all regions and consoles simultaneously, so everyone is on the same page, and consumers will feel like they're getting something out of their monthly subscription fees. If it can't be done, then make it F2P so at least we won't be throwing our money away again on Sega's incompetence.

Kent
Apr 9, 2011, 01:41 PM
Funny, before PSU, there was PSO, and it had no way to move out large updates.

Yet there were new quests released on a monthly basis.

Hmm...
That's because of how small script files work.

Any quests in PSO that were released, were added to the server as quest script files that had to be downloaded before the quest started. You might remember there being a short period where, at the Hunters' Guild, you had to download quest data when you chose a quest from the list.

That's what it was doing - it was downloading the data required to know how to assemble the quest's area layout, enemy patterns and any other relevant parameters from existing in-game data. You might also notice that there's not a single thing added to the game in these quests that wasn't in the game's base content (notably, unique room/hallway layouts were made because of how the game "assembles" areas - by using a series of pre-set rooms and hallways that can be pieced together in a modular fashion, not unlike, say, Legos; it's a rather elegant solution).

At the same time, it was a very small amount of data that was on the disc that was only available in specific quests. A handful of weapons (initially - though this number got larger as future versions had more events for which these weapons were intended) and some models such as lobby/town decorations and whatnot.

And you know what? That level of locked content is okay - it's nothing large or substantial, and it's almost entirely a small subset of trophies for players to collect from various seasonal or non-seasonal events.

Contrast Phantasy Star Universe, which has a large amount of in-game content locked on the disc from the start, and it's not just a series of trophies or novelty items, it's actual full gameplay areas and vast collections of standard equipment. That's just plain unfair to people who bought the game, to retain such a large amount of data from them for no real reason.

Like I said, seasonal and event-based items, decorations and layouts are okay to keep on the disc and only use situationally. However, if we're talking about any substantial amount of gameplay content... It's a very short walk between what's acceptable and what's really just cheating your customers.

relentless
Apr 9, 2011, 06:08 PM
I definitely don't want locked content. Though since I don't get my hopes up either, let's just say they better give us enough start-off content and then give us steady updates to keep us fresh, more or less.

Zarode
Apr 9, 2011, 09:33 PM
Lets be honest, those consisted solely of text files and some data for map layout (which, given PSO's design, could have easily been done in text files!). On a data size measure, tiny tiny tiny.

To be fair, most of PSU's quests fit that description too.

However, PSU had entire regions unavailable at launch. For the first couple months.


Scary thing was that Blue Burst technically did this. Difficulties and episode 2 was locked from the start. Worked fairly well for them, from a business standpoint.

Kaziel
Apr 11, 2011, 11:28 AM
I don't really mind too much if there's locked content. I'd rather have locked content than no content. Though having a whole episode locked is kinda weird, but as long as they don't charge you for it, I'm sure they have a good reason for it.

What I DO mind is when they charge you for locked content that is on the disk. That is pretty bullshxt. (including holding it over your head to keep paying sub fees)

lostinseganet
Apr 16, 2011, 04:26 AM
The game needs a hard drive ability for brand new content.

Zilch
Apr 23, 2011, 12:01 PM
No locked content please. Pitch out as much content as possible right away, and then I'd be happy to cough up money for meaty expansion packs. I don't like having good stuff locked up in front of my nose.

Nagidar
Apr 26, 2011, 11:48 AM
The game is PC only, the reason the did the locked content thing, was because they wanted to make it "feel" like players were getting new content, when they were actually getting content that was already in the game due to it being playable on consoles with no HDD, with it being PC Exclusive (As of right now), there is no need for that, they can release all of the games content and add more as time goes on.

Anduril
Apr 26, 2011, 02:30 PM
I'm good with unlocking things based on meeting certain individual achievements (in the old sense of the word), like with PSP2 in terms of "locked" content, i.e. you can't just go to Ruins or whatever the moment you join the game, you have to work toward it. But in terms of spoonfeeding content that is already on the disc: no, no, no, no, no.

Lance813
Apr 26, 2011, 03:06 PM
I'd rather have what I pay for in one fell swoop. Of course, content has to be unlocked as you play but isn't that the basis of EVERY video game? Hell, release the game in whole and god forbid create updates to the game instead of locking content which WILL be hacked wide open if it is locked this time around as well...

If there is this so called 'locked content' I'm going to flip. If that is true, the game will suck. It will go down the same path that PSU took. People will hit caps, get bored, and leave...

Pillan
Apr 26, 2011, 03:06 PM
Give me full story mode, a free mission for every area in story mode, the Kireek Soul Eater side quest, an initial level cap of at least 50, and a rebirth system accessed at the initial cap and you can lock everything else for a little while.