So how should Sega rebalance the jobs in PSO2?

[JC10001]

I thought it would be fun to have a thread where we each propose how the classes should work in PSO2. As we all know, the balance in PSU and the original PSO was all sort of off (with forces mostly getting the shaft).

How would you fix it? Would you be upset if PSO2 adopted a more traditional MMO setup for the roles? For example:

HUNTER - Damage reduced to about 2/3 what it was in PSU. Defense significantly increased. They have an innate ability where each time they strike an enemy they can "charm" them similar to Barada Chamga in PSU. TANK ROLE.

RANGER - Damage reduced to about half of what it was in PSU. They have an innate ability where any photon art that causes a status effect has an even greater change to inflict said status effect (compared to another class using the same weapon and same photon art at the same level). They are the only class with debuffs. SABOTEUR ROLE.

ACROBAT - Combine Acrofighter and Acrotecher and you get this. This is the support/buff class. Damage is on par with ranger. They can use a variety of one handed weapons. When they buff/heal it is an AOE around the player just like in PSU. SUPPORT ROLE.

FORCE - Damage doubled from PSU. They can heal but it will be for a small amount over time. For example, they can put down a glyph and when players stand on it they get healed over time. Buffs work in the same fashion...they would be confined to a specific area. They are the primary damage dealers in the game. They can still do some support but they are not the main healer/buffer and their heals and buffs work differently. DAMAGE ROLE.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

It's too early to speculate about this, since we know literally nothing about PSO2's class system. It's just going to devolve into arguing over balance issues in PSU and comparisons to PSO, and we sadly already have enough threads for that.

[OdinTyler]

Well, I did prefer the names used in PSU over PSO. I mean, trying to keep track of HUmar, HUmarl, RAcast, RAcaseal, etc etc...it makes you dizzy! If we have just the 3 tier system of before, your job is your job. Hunter? Great. You're a Hunter. Your race is just that: your race. Putting the race name into the class name overcomplicated it. However the system will work, I hope it's similar to what I suggested. This way it can be more about choosing the race/class combo you want, without being locked into such a name and you wouldn't have a specific look based on that combo.

[NoiseHERO]

I thought the system in PSO was interesting.

But as I've said in other threads, I like PSU multiple classes and multiple names better.

I'd rather be Human Acrofighter number 1443,
Than Humar/Hunter number 8000

[OdinTyler]

Well if you had the ability to name your own class (within reason, of course), that would be good.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah I also thought that idea somewhere...

But feels a little farfetched...

and It'd only make sense with PSP2's "every class can do everything you customize it to do" system

[OdinTyler]

I never actually played the PSP series. Last night was actually my first time back on the forum in years. My last PS playtime was PSU (the original) offline. Trying to get back into the swing of things. LOL

[Akaimizu]

In order for the status effect thing to work, they need to increase the usefulness of said status effects. Don't give people silence and stun only to have a good majority of monsters still freely able to do all of that stuff while in either of those states.

Also, DOT status effects need real use in a group. Sure, taking the damage down does help a little, but that's what you need. Doubling the Force damage would actually KILL that balance. Because it not only would put them as the top damage dealers, it would effectively kill the use for rangers or the satisfaction of damage for hunters. DOT status effects would do nothing if the actual direct damage of techs completely owns the monsters before even the ticks of DOT expire. (Something that is already a big problem in PSU).

If the force becomes the highest, it's nice they are glass canons (as they should be), the amount you ask for the increase will basically put the hunter in just a position of being a damage soaker while the Forces do the real work. So Hunters will basically become Tanks with some contributor damage. Not too bad an idea if you can truly sell them as tanks, and yes they will need to be a good deal less vulnerable to fit said role.

However, that would basically make it a Hunter-blocker Force-damager game, and that's it.

Another issue is support techs (or any kind of game support function). Everybody's damage needs to come down for this to work. Whether it is rifles that can knock down, or blockades. All Supports lose their necessary aspects if the players do too much damage. Something the Forces would do, if you just double their damage. Rangers in PSU, happen to be one of the more balanced groups in the game, just that SEGA kind of gave up on the usefulness of DOT status effects and just decided to say, "Oh well. Since we do want people to play rangers, we'll just bring their damage up so they wont suck."

Not the great solution, just the one they took.

The biggest problem, and one they started to rectify in PSP2 (started, that is) is that they summed up everything with too little stats. It belittled the diversity of class usefulness because they didn't have enough to work with.

For instance, making the game sync up every monster plus adding in true *aggro* monster properties would be a big addition to how to balance not only classes but specific skills you learn. Yes, they added special Ults with only specific weapons, that help do the aggro thing; but they're way too far inbetween and fairly unusable by the weapons they gave them to or the public at large.

Making gun damage not equal melee damage was a great step up in PSP2. Accuracy should be the main stat in gun damage. It makes things far easier to control, in balance.

Buffs and debuffs definitely need to be more pronounced, and monsters more generally dangerous. Someone should almost feel like they're life and ability to cruise through a level depended on Buffs, Debuffs, and Monster control. You get those right, and you'll finally realize how to flesh out a good "playing the role" party combat system.

And last but not least. If you aren't a squishy force, by no means should you have access to any kind of ranged weapon that equals the highest damaging things in the game. I'm looking at you Slicer. A long ranged *safe weapon* that is treated like a gun, but can outdamage any non-tech ranged weapon. Talk about something that breaks all of the simplest conventional rules of balancing in a multiplayer game. We knew this stuff back in the 80s. No need to mess that up in the 21st century.

The 'Oh so simple' general rule is that ridiculously High damage belongs to two things, and those two things alone.

1. You either have to get inside, go toe to toe, with a class that can stand the possible damage, and perform a close-in direct attack.

2. You have very strong powers, can activate them at range, but need people to help keep enemies off you so you can survive to pull off such devastation. Which basically kills the theory of any Force able to pull these high damage attacks while having a lot of free movement. Glass Cannon means Glass Cannon. And no Sega, we don't mean Glass Pistol. We don't need a Force having these restrictions if they can't eventually make monsters both go Boom/Sizzle/etc and be seriously hurt by that action.

If you are hardy, can take serious punishment, and can clear monsters in split seconds with a long ranged attack long before monsters have a prayer of closing the distance, then your balance fails, right there. Unless, and only unless, you're running a level that is way too low for your level, and you feel like beating up on the weak. Again, Slicers being a big culprit in how they out-damage Laser Cannons on bullet-vulnerable monsters when being used on Melee-resistant ones and often laugh in the face of close-ranged Shotgun damage.

As for Hunters, they seriously need to balance the damage back to the weapons they need to get in close with, or slower moving ones. Risk vs. Reward should be the entire case of the day for a Fighter-class. If someone wants to risk swinging a big slow sword around, it better be more satisfying than tossing some daggers really far. I don't want to do this big slow attack and expect it to do pitiful damage compared to *quick attack number 1*. However, many hunter weapon balances are an issue here, not Slicers in particular.

Again. These types of balancing agents were stuff figured out a long time ago.

[Chunky McMunky]

i think that all classes should be able to use the basic 3 weapons at the most basic level so like the wand,saber and handgun, i was so sick of not being able to shoot switches or hit bosses playing a fighmaster

[Zyrusticae]

TOO SOON.

[No_Cigar]

I actually kind of like this because I've never played any PS game except PSO1&2 super casual offline only a long time ago. I'd like to hear what happened with classes and stuff in all these newer PS games. It'd be interesting to see players thoughts on how things are, and what would make them better.

[RemiusTA]

The problem with this thread is that you're treating this game as if it's an expansion to PSU.

Judging from how everything is working (rangers being completely different, hunter combos working completely different, force gameplay being invisible atm and no mention of an "acrobat" even existing), there's no way we can know any of this.

Other than that, most of this spectulation is going on / has gone on in the "what would you like to see in PSO2" thread.

[Akaimizu]

^ This is very true. This would simply be a thing when it comes to comparisons to PSU. So of course, my reaction is based on the exact level of the post given at first.

I will speak a bit on generalized aspects of what I think should be factors that *need* to be taken when dealing with the base classes as a whole regardless of system. Balancing factors that have been learned in the RPG industry decades ago. Perhaps ideas that they should consider when it comes to any system in PSO2.

Still, the team to make Phantasy Star games has grown, and they acquired a good amount of new talent between PSU and now. Some talent that I'll give the benefit of the doubt which are even more experienced in classic important balance factors in Action RPGs/Games and have studied the genre for a good 20 or so years. Maybe even looked at what the Europeans have learned in those years, as well. There's plenty of evidence on all these factors which greatly aided in how to do these things completely usable in any PS game.

[Hrith]

Class: RAmarl, description: best ranger, best hunter, can heal and support.

Oh wait...

[Randomness]

Class: RAmarl, description: best ranger, best hunter, can heal and support.

Oh wait...

God I loved RAmarls. And HUnewearls. For basically the exact same reasons. Good damage, accuracy, and access to S/D/J/Z.

[Akaimizu]

RAmarls absolutely ruled in PSO. Sadly enough, I picked one just because I wanted to be the Ranger Tech-using hybrid. I never would've ever known that they would end up being Godly. I never caught the word about them until way after I played one.

[Hrith]

I picked RAmarl on day one of PSO EpI&II, there was no way to know it was such a good class. The drawback was that because of the reputation of the class, people picked her thinking a good class would make up for lack of skill. Sadly, being a good RAmarl was as difficult as being a good anything, if not more, because the more a class has potential, the more skill you need to bring it out.

["En"]

Did you all forget that RAcast existed?

HUcasts and their ATP value would also like to say hello.

[NoiseHERO]

Racast...

Or I'd rather just pick a cast and make him a ranger, instead of combinations getting crossed out.

[Blueblur]

It's too early to speculate about this, since we know literally nothing about PSO2's class system. It's just going to devolve into arguing over balance issues in PSU and comparisons to PSO, and we sadly already have enough threads for that.
This.

[Chaobo99]

Gosh.. I can't be the only one that picked RAmarl as a class because they used their handguns differently -.-;;;; The Yashminikov 3000H was my "favorite" weapon :P one of many ^_^

[moorebounce]

I thought it would be fun to have a thread where we each propose how the classes should work in PSO2. As we all know, the balance in PSU and the original PSO was all sort of off (with forces mostly getting the shaft).

How would you fix it? Would you be upset if PSO2 adopted a more traditional MMO setup for the roles? For example:

HUNTER - Damage reduced to about 2/3 what it was in PSU. Defense significantly increased. They have an innate ability where each time they strike an enemy they can "charm" them similar to Barada Chamga in PSU. TANK ROLE.

RANGER - Damage reduced to about half of what it was in PSU. They have an innate ability where any photon art that causes a status effect has an even greater change to inflict said status effect (compared to another class using the same weapon and same photon art at the same level). They are the only class with debuffs. SABOTEUR ROLE.

ACROBAT - Combine Acrofighter and Acrotecher and you get this. This is the support/buff class. Damage is on par with ranger. They can use a variety of one handed weapons. When they buff/heal it is an AOE around the player just like in PSU. SUPPORT ROLE.

FORCE - Damage doubled from PSU. They can heal but it will be for a small amount over time. For example, they can put down a glyph and when players stand on it they get healed over time. Buffs work in the same fashion...they would be confined to a specific area. They are the primary damage dealers in the game. They can still do some support but they are not the main healer/buffer and their heals and buffs work differently. DAMAGE ROLE.

Doing this would defeat the whole purpose of having a difference in classes. They made forces to be more of a support and made you work together more as a team. Forces are for people wanting a challenge.

[FEI LEE]

Gosh.. I can't be the only one that picked RAmarl as a class because they used their handguns differently -.-;;;; The Yashminikov 3000H was my "favorite" weapon :P one of many ^_^

I played a RAmar but I can't deny I always preferred the RAmarl handgun animations.

[Wayu]

Gosh.. I can't be the only one that picked RAmarl as a class because they used their handguns differently -.-;;;; The Yashminikov 3000H was my "favorite" weapon :P one of many ^_^

You're not alone, but I preferred using my various Lasers (she was only lv. 40-ish).

-Wayu

[Niloklives]

What about take your daughter to work day?

Anyway as far as the OP...just no.

I'm in favor of three basic class and some kind of a hybrid, like they did in PSP2 as long as the hybrid works well, but TBH, I would not mind much at all if they went back to the old PSO style race/class thing with three races and three classes at the start and leaving it at that.

It's not a nostalgia thing, it just seemed to work well.

What might be kinda cool...and this is way out there...but I'm in favor of casts not being able to tech (traditional for the PS series). Seeing as that would exclude them from a class, maybe they could get their own class. Like some type of engineer. Kinda like a PT from PSU but with light weapons like sabers, pistols machine guns and such...and lots of traps. I dunno it would have to be balanced just right so as not to turn the game into easy mode, but still be worth using and not take away from techers which I think need help. Poor things were useless in PSU outside of slowing down everyone's screen and support techs.

It's an Idea, anyway.