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OdinTyler
Apr 28, 2011, 02:00 PM
I know it's too soon to ask this (or anything, really), but with the advent of MANY games going Free To Play, is it remotely possible that Sega might take this into account and let us play for free? As I understand it, the game's only being released on PC. That will lessen the potential userbase (but it will unify as one system means easier connected, so thats OK). Some games to micro-transactions right, where you get the full game but you can buy extras with real money. Other games (sadly) force you to pay money on a free game, just to get closer to the full game. I pray that if PSO 2 goes Free To Play, it will be more like the former. At the risk of possible scorn, the best example would be Guild Wars. I know, PS isn't an MMO. But being an online game, I still make the comparison.

Well, I leave this now to your comments. Do you think the game could be free (if not, one day)? Or can we expect to once again sign up for a Guardian License (most likely)?

Kyokyono
Apr 28, 2011, 02:22 PM
Gawd, I hope it's not free. What incentive does the company have to keep the fans happy after the initial purchase, then? And mirco transactions SUCK. You can dump SO much more money into a game that way, I'd rather just go with a monthly and have a good game that is continually supported.

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2011, 02:23 PM
Nopefully*

t3hVeG
Apr 28, 2011, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening. Ever.

Aumi
Apr 28, 2011, 02:36 PM
Gawd, I hope it's not free. What incentive does the company have to keep the fans happy after the initial purchase, then? And mirco transactions SUCK. You can dump SO much more money into a game that way, I'd rather just go with a monthly and have a good game that is continually supported.

Well ArenaNet manages to do it with Guild Wars, somehow. I really doubt it for PSO2, though.

Pillan
Apr 28, 2011, 02:52 PM
If I were one of the programmers, animators, or graphic artists working on this game and the lead designer announced "we are making this game free to play" I would be pretty pissed off until I heard "because Pizza Hut, KFC, and McDonald's are sponsoring."

Not too far fetched that they could make eliminate the monthly fees for the Japanese server with sponsorship and special pay items and quests. But I sincerely doubt you want to find the rare KFC or watch everyone run circles around you with the latest purchase-only ultimate rare they found.

Kaziel
Apr 28, 2011, 02:53 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening. Ever.

Pretty much this. :)

Hucast-Kireek
Apr 28, 2011, 03:38 PM
Hmm

PS3 version = Free

thus never to come to consoles?

Damn

t3hVeG
Apr 28, 2011, 03:43 PM
Hmm

PS3 version = Free

thus never to come to consoles?

Damn

Actually even if it were to come to the PS3, there would still be a monthly fee just like DC Universe Online does.

GreenArcher
Apr 28, 2011, 03:51 PM
This game would probably benefit here in the west with a free to play model. The online PC gaming platform is just so crowded with big names by more popular companies. Look at the former populations of PSU PC/PS2 and PSOBB. Very low.

I personally hate free to play, and I would hate to see people better off than myself because they can pour hundreds of dollars a month into the game but...the game would most likely be better off this way overall with respect to updates and support.

However this depends on what their plans on for the servers (international or regional).

Nitro Vordex
Apr 28, 2011, 04:16 PM
This game would probably benefit here in the west with a free to play model. The online PC gaming platform is just so crowded with big names by more popular companies. Look at the former populations of PSU PC/PS2 and PSOBB. Very low.

You need to keep in mind that PSOBB and PSU don't particularly compare very well to other games, not to mention PSO and PSU weren't popular because nobody knew they existed.

Shinji Kazuya
Apr 28, 2011, 04:17 PM
PSO2 free to play? o o
I doubt it but we never know.

Kent
Apr 28, 2011, 05:26 PM
Gawd, I hope it's not free. What incentive does the company have to keep the fans happy after the initial purchase, then? And mirco transactions SUCK. You can dump SO much more money into a game that way, I'd rather just go with a monthly and have a good game that is continually supported.
Continued business, and purchases of future expansion packs.

"Free to play" doesn't have to be a dirty term - nobody likes the connotations that come with the idea of microtransactions, but just because a game is "free to play" doesn't mean it's "allegedly free to play" like most games branded as such actually are.

Considering that PSO is not an MMO and PSO2 should very well not be one, that makes potential server upkeep costs substantially-lower than what they would have to be otherwise. Compare Diablo II, a game with nearly the exact same style of network structure as PSO, which is not only still going strong, but probably still turning a profit - both through software sales (for a game from 1999, even) and through that one, measly little banner ad you see during the Battle.net chat channels between games.

Another case to consider is that of Borderlands, a game that boils down to a FPS action-based loot-hunting RPG, which is not only not an MMO, but it doesn't even have idiots believing it is one. It's just a client-server game like any other shooter, and it kept up tons of revenue just from releasing $10 downloadable expansion packs for about a year after its release.

When I look at the successes of these games (which they both have been resounding successes, there's no doubt about that), games that are, at their cores, very similar in structure to what PSO was, with a bit less of the unnecessary fluff, I see that there's a lot of potential for PSO2 to not only be a game without monthly fees being even necessary, but also a game that could see continual support through expansions (not locked on-disc content, mind you), but also remain profitable at the same time.

The only things really preventing that from being the case are management issues with not delivering the game to a wide-enough audience, not providing equal support to oversea markets, and Sega corporate being unable to keep their heads out of their asses when it comes to promoting the game and understanding that monthly fees are very much just not suited to a game like this.

I think there's plenty of evidence pointing to the fact that people don't want to pay monthly for something that isn't actually massively-multiplayer (especially now, as opposed to five years ago), as well as the fact that Sonic Team probably wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand for new content, should they actually charge monthly.

Soul Guardian
Apr 28, 2011, 05:30 PM
If PSO 2 went free to play, I would hope they limit cash shop type items to just things like outfits or other non-essential items.

I don't want to see it turn into another game where people who spend tons on cash shop items end up doing better than everyone else.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 05:34 PM
I prefer pay-to-play simply because that guarantees I have access to all the content until they release, say, a paid expansion pack, whereas free-to-play means you may have to pay considerably more just to be able to experience all the content and keep up.

Also, COMPLETELY free is utterly ridiculous and impractical. They have to get funding somehow, and I prefer the stream of free updates that pay-to-play is usually accompanied by.

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2011, 05:34 PM
One thing I do hope they have is a city of heroes like free trial...

It kind of turns people off right away that you're not gonna be able to try the game without pulling out your credit card, and that made it really hard for my friends to even look at PSU.

Shinji Kazuya
Apr 28, 2011, 05:39 PM
One thing I do hope they have is a city of heroes like free trial...

It kind of turns people off right away that you're not gonna be able to try the game without pulling out your credit card, and that made it really hard for my friends to even look at PSU.

Yep. The 360 version had the demo but not anymore though. Hopefully PSO2 will have said free trial, hopefully...

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 06:13 PM
I 100% agree with Kent's post.

The massively slow, trickle-down content "updates" on PSU & PSU:AotI for the US PS2 & PC servers was very, very frustrating.

Why should I pay $10 a month if Sega pulls that same bullcrap again on PSO 2's US servers (should it even see the light of day in the US)?
With PSU, it got to the point where I felt like I was wasting my money on it...

Malachite
Apr 28, 2011, 06:34 PM
It's not going to be free to play, and all you people who so desperately want it to be reaaaaaaallllyyy need to gets jobs lol.

Seriously, it's 10 dollars a month, and it's a far better system than micro-transitions, or buying play time. Limited content and play time, people buying the best items and making them valueless, and many many other annoying things, just so some bums don't have to pay 10 dollars a month?

The monthly fee is the perfect system for any PSO game, and I'm glad to be certain that that's what they're going to be using.

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 07:30 PM
Did you ever play PSU on the PS2 or PC?...

Some of us DO have jobs. But are on a very tight budget, and when it comes down to having that bit of 10$ to have some food to eat, or spending that $10 on an online video game. Well, If the online support is lacking, one tends to think that $10 a month is better spent on something that's needed more, dude.

Malachite
Apr 28, 2011, 07:34 PM
Well, even if it is "free to play", there are still going to be fees. Whether they be micro-transitions, or paying for tokens to do runs, you're going to end up paying either way. Probably more than 10 a month, if that's how they decide to do it.

Now, if the game is COMPLETELY free, then Sega will lack the funds to keep supporting the game, and it's quality will suffer greatly.

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 07:43 PM
Highly conjectural. Guild Wars, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Spiral Knights and others have worked things out, and their quality hasn't suffered at all.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 08:06 PM
Guild Wars works on a model of frequent paid expansions, Dungeon & Dragons Online only gives you the bare minimum content for free. Spiral Knights is hardly comparable, being an extremely low-budget production.


Point is, the money comes in SOMEWHERE. Whether it's by expansions, by limiting content access, by pay-2-win, or what-have-you. No matter what model they choose you HAVE to pay eventually or your play experience is severely limited.

I'd rather just pay frequently and have everything than pay once and still only have half the damn game.

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 08:10 PM
I'd rather pay for expansions than a monthly fee. FYI Spiral Knights is not a "low budget production". Don't judge it until you actually played the game for a couple days. Spiral Knights isn't some simple Facebook game or some little flash game.

Anon_Fire
Apr 28, 2011, 08:14 PM
F2P?, no chance in hell

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 08:18 PM
LMAO.. Not even going to bother.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 08:19 PM
By "low-budget production" I mean "not a AAA title with a budget in the 10s of millions." Also, made by a dev team of seven (http://threepanelsoul.com/2011/03/22/doodle-on-the-enemy/) for most of its development cycle.

At any rate, if that's yer preference, that's fine, but given precedent you're going to be severely disappointed.

I find the expansion model tends to leave customers in the cold after a certain accumulation - once you have to pay for two or three expansions instead of a single monthly fee to play with your friends, well... that'd be why I prefer the EVE Online or Aion model. Free expansions + monthly ftw.

ShadowDragon28
Apr 28, 2011, 08:29 PM
After how burned many players that played PSU on PS2 & PC Us servers feel. A monthly fee for an online Sega game with potentially lack-luster support and possible excessively slow, trickle-down updates for US players (if PSO 2 gets a US release and US servers) is a questionable expense for some.

What is and isn't a "AAA" game is debateable (and im not interested in debating that topic). In my experiece as a gamer for over 25 yrs, a game with a high production budget doesn't neccessarily always mean it's a flawless "great game".

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2011, 08:37 PM
The budget has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the quality of the game, but it DOES have something to do with how much money has to go into each update. Come on, really, it's elementary.

Similarly, the support PSU got stateside has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the monthly fee, and EVERYTHING to do with Sega of America being completely under-budget and understaffed. Either that or Sega of Japan didn't give two shits. In any event, a different business model does NOT guarantee better support in any way, shape, or form.

Blueblur
Apr 28, 2011, 09:23 PM
I have to agree with Zyrusticae.

And honestly, a large Japanese developer like Sega is going to stick with tried and true business models when it comes to a big tent-pole release like PSO 2. They're by no means a progressive company. They will charge a monthly fee for this game regardless of what people think. If the game is decent and if they're smart, their PR campaign will entail Sega PR apologizing for PSU's lack of support and doing the best job to sell people on the game based on how awesome they think it is. And if even they don't convince the naysayers, there will be a couple hundred schmucks who will pay the monthly fee anyway.

You can count on that.

Malachite
Apr 28, 2011, 10:59 PM
If you don't like the monthly fee, then don't pay it and go play some crappy free-to-play model game.

It's as simple as that, really. A monthly fee is considerably the best way to go, from every aspect.

yoshiblue
Apr 28, 2011, 11:01 PM
SE did that and look at most their games lol.

But they are two different companys so meh.

RemiusTA
Apr 28, 2011, 11:58 PM
I know it's too soon to ask this (or anything, really), but with the advent of MANY games going Free To Play, is it remotely possible that Sega might take this into account and let us play for free? As I understand it, the game's only being released on PC. That will lessen the potential userbase (but it will unify as one system means easier connected, so thats OK). Some games to micro-transactions right, where you get the full game but you can buy extras with real money. Other games (sadly) force you to pay money on a free game, just to get closer to the full game. I pray that if PSO 2 goes Free To Play, it will be more like the former. At the risk of possible scorn, the best example would be Guild Wars. I know, PS isn't an MMO. But being an online game, I still make the comparison.

Well, I leave this now to your comments. Do you think the game could be free (if not, one day)? Or can we expect to once again sign up for a Guardian License (most likely)?


Honestly, i know what it used to feel like to not be able to play a monthly subscription, but you do not want this game to be free-to-play.

Trust me.


I dont know how PSUJP's revenue is doing, but that shift to F2P + subscription + cash shop (WOW sega really) seems to be a desperate attempt. Or them finding ways to add to easily add content to the game and work on something else at the same time AND get paid more. But i really have no clue how PSUJP's population is doing in context of how Sega wanted it to be.

Kent
Apr 29, 2011, 12:08 AM
I 100% agree with Kent's post.
What's interesting is that the "hurr, free-to-play ar bad" crowd seem to completely ignore it. :wacko:

Point is, Sega has yet to prove they have any competence at all in supplying regular updates to justify a monthly fee, when the game could easily have its server costs covered, should the game's networking systems and architecture be designed in a non-moronic way, by a combination of unintrusive in-lobby advertisements and regularly-released, paid full expansions.

Probably the thing that most proponents of the pay-to-play model seem to be completely oblivious to (as evidenced by the arguments at hand, anyway), is the fact that people are just fine with paying for games or paying for a service. The point of contention, however, is the value of what they're getting.

Case in point, it could be realistically estimated that PSU's monthly fees easily have a profit margin of upwards of 75% (and that's giving them the benefit of the doubt - but it's also not a flat rate, as it varies with total population density and server congestion)... Which is profiteering, rather than an acceptable business practice. Lets not forget that all "updates" made to the game consisted of changing a couple variables on the server to allow access to other content already-present on the disc you bought, making this not just profiteering, but also a disingenuous business practice.

Compound the fact that for quite a while, the game's first expansion was a paid one that should have been available through in-game updates of the initial game, and we have a major problem.

I realize that was done due to the prior mistake of having the PlayStation 2 as the game's lead platform, but that's not the case with PSO2.

Should the game receive regular additional content, with the game's base content (i.e. on-disc content, or content distributed with the initial client) all available from the start, regular balance checkups and involved, original events on a regular basis, I don't think even the free-to-play proponents would have a problem with it.

Again: It's not the fact that extra money is being paid, it's the fact that they have a proven history of failing to deliver an appropriate amount of content based on the amount paid monthly by customers. This is why I support the free-to-play model (which is not to say that I support a microtransaction-based model - because I don't - they're not synonymous).

RemiusTA
Apr 29, 2011, 12:14 AM
Continued business, and purchases of future expansion packs.

"Free to play" doesn't have to be a dirty term - nobody likes the connotations that come with the idea of microtransactions, but just because a game is "free to play" doesn't mean it's "allegedly free to play" like most games branded as such actually are.

Considering that PSO is not an MMO and PSO2 should very well not be one, that makes potential server upkeep costs substantially-lower than what they would have to be otherwise. Compare Diablo II, a game with nearly the exact same style of network structure as PSO, which is not only still going strong, but probably still turning a profit - both through software sales (for a game from 1999, even) and through that one, measly little banner ad you see during the Battle.net chat channels between games.

Another case to consider is that of Borderlands, a game that boils down to a FPS action-based loot-hunting RPG, which is not only not an MMO, but it doesn't even have idiots believing it is one. It's just a client-server game like any other shooter, and it kept up tons of revenue just from releasing $10 downloadable expansion packs for about a year after its release.

When I look at the successes of these games (which they both have been resounding successes, there's no doubt about that), games that are, at their cores, very similar in structure to what PSO was, with a bit less of the unnecessary fluff, I see that there's a lot of potential for PSO2 to not only be a game without monthly fees being even necessary, but also a game that could see continual support through expansions (not locked on-disc content, mind you), but also remain profitable at the same time.

The only things really preventing that from being the case are management issues with not delivering the game to a wide-enough audience, not providing equal support to oversea markets, and Sega corporate being unable to keep their heads out of their asses when it comes to promoting the game and understanding that monthly fees are very much just not suited to a game like this.

I think there's plenty of evidence pointing to the fact that people don't want to pay monthly for something that isn't actually massively-multiplayer (especially now, as opposed to five years ago), as well as the fact that Sonic Team probably wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand for new content, should they actually charge monthly.

Well...if you look at it from that point of view, then i really wouldn't mind. Especially since PSU has been subscription for years and has only recieved like 2 updates of decent size.

Mike
Apr 29, 2011, 08:13 AM
Up until the introduction of GC, the Phantasy Star series has more or less been subscription based in Japan. From version one all the way up, there have been subscriptions so I assume PSO2 will follow suit, at least in Japan. Could they go free-to-play? Sure. Will they? I don't think so.

Anon_Fire
Apr 29, 2011, 08:50 AM
Well, too bad. It will be pay-to-play no matter what you think.

Pillan
Apr 29, 2011, 09:05 AM
I do not believe anyone has really questioned the idea of “could Sonic Team make PSO2 free to play?” Of course they can and still make a profit. The bigger question at hand seems to be “why would Sonic Team make PSO2 free to play?”

And the only real answer to that question is “because they found a way to make more money without the fees.” SEGA, like every public company, is contractually obligated to maximize its profits over each economic period. And thus if they see that they can make more money off their target population by charging some amount per month than by opening it up to the public, they will obviously charge that amount to fulfill their obligation to their stock holders.

It really does not matter that the interest in PSO in the US is dwindling, especially after PSU, as the makers of this game are focused in Japan and they are measuring the success of their strategy on the Japanese players. And I am sure we can all agree that those numbers say “charge the usual amount at least since we have nostalgia and popularity on our side.”

They could do an aggressive campaign to expand their market share in the US. But, as Kent has already pointed out, the international community in general does not want to pay for an online RPG that does not meet the standard requirements of an MMO. I am sure SEGA’s marketing department has analyzed that data as well and decided any increased effort other than the usual “first few months free” is not worth it from a business perspective.

thinktank001
Apr 29, 2011, 09:21 AM
I don't really care for the pay to win (P2W) payment model, but it might work well with PSO2. It works ok for DDO and that game world is built similar to PSO online series.

Akaimizu
Apr 29, 2011, 09:21 AM
It would be interesting. It also puts in the question on whether they even plan to sell PSO2 outside of Japan. Perhaps, in Japan, they can get away with doing a monthly service and producing less content than all the PC competition. Perhaps Japanese players play less online MMOs, particularly from outside companies. I don't know. Just in the West, players have grown accustomed to price vs. content. Whether it is a free-to-play model or a pay-by-month model. The successful ones, in both categories, tend to be ones that not only have good mechanics, but they also give a comparatively good value of new content for the money spent.

Thus why going PC, in general, means if they do a Monthly Subscription, or have lots of microtransactions; they have to keep up with the Joneses to have success, or get left behind. On the other hand, if they do get a free ride from Japanese players; then there could be an argument to just keep it all there. They aren't the only realtime action RPG out there, anymore.

LoveRappy
May 2, 2011, 12:25 AM
i would like to see it free-to-play. i can see it happening because of games like GW.

also PSO is the type of game that usually IS free. in this day, it will come as a surpise to a lot of people if you actually do have to pay.

i could see perhaps different "models" of subscriptions - a free one with lesser features and then a pay-to-play with the whole package, or perhaps free-to-play but you have to pay to get gear and stuff, etc. this is what most MMOs are doing, i think WoW is the only one that isnt, but its only a matter of time before they do.

anyways, whatever the outcome is, i hope they have paypal or game cards as a payment method.

ShinMaruku
May 2, 2011, 12:37 AM
It's not going to be free to play, and all you people who so desperately want it to be reaaaaaaallllyyy need to gets jobs lol.

Seriously, it's 10 dollars a month, and it's a far better system than micro-transitions, or buying play time. Limited content and play time, people buying the best items and making them valueless, and many many other annoying things, just so some bums don't have to pay 10 dollars a month?

The monthly fee is the perfect system for any PSO game, and I'm glad to be certain that that's what they're going to be using.
You obviously never played free to play games it's never as bad as you think. DFO, D&D GW do it all VERY well.

Sega has no real reason to charge $10 a month for the crap job they done for the past 10+ years.

Anon_Fire
May 2, 2011, 01:00 AM
You obviously never played free to play games it's never as bad as you think. DFO, D&D GW do it all VERY well.

Sega has no real reason to charge $10 a month for the crap job they done for the past 10+ years.

Yes they have a reason to charge a monthly payment, get over it.

Don't bother playing it if you don't like it.

RenzokukenZ
May 2, 2011, 01:08 AM
i would like to see it free-to-play. i can see it happening because of games like GW.

also PSO is the type of game that usually IS free. in this day, it will come as a surpise to a lot of people if you actually do have to pay.

i could see perhaps different "models" of subscriptions - a free one with lesser features and then a pay-to-play with the whole package, or perhaps free-to-play but you have to pay to get gear and stuff, etc. this is what most MMOs are doing, i think WoW is the only one that isnt, but its only a matter of time before they do.

anyways, whatever the outcome is, i hope they have paypal or game cards as a payment method.

Wasn't PSO pay-to-play in Japan?

Anon_Fire
May 2, 2011, 01:09 AM
Wasn't PSO pay-to-play in Japan?

Yes it was

(US prices)
PSODC: $5.99
PSOGC: $8.95
PSOBB: $8.99

LoveRappy
May 2, 2011, 01:11 AM
Yes they have a reason to charge a monthly payment, get over it.

Don't bother playing it if you don't like it.

i think this stems down to people thinking that paying a fee keeps the "bad players" out. well, news flash, it doesnt. you ever play WoW?

there is quite a few free online games out there that are great to play and keep content updated. PSO2 certainly can be free-to-play.

PSO1/PSO2 is also the type of game that is USUALLY free-to-play. its the same as the Diablo series, Titan's Quest, Sacred series, Torchlight (well soon to be #2) and Guild Wars - and there all free.

moorebounce
May 2, 2011, 01:12 AM
I know it's too soon to ask this (or anything, really), but with the advent of MANY games going Free To Play, is it remotely possible that Sega might take this into account and let us play for free? As I understand it, the game's only being released on PC. That will lessen the potential userbase (but it will unify as one system means easier connected, so thats OK). Some games to micro-transactions right, where you get the full game but you can buy extras with real money. Other games (sadly) force you to pay money on a free game, just to get closer to the full game. I pray that if PSO 2 goes Free To Play, it will be more like the former. At the risk of possible scorn, the best example would be Guild Wars. I know, PS isn't an MMO. But being an online game, I still make the comparison.

Well, I leave this now to your comments. Do you think the game could be free (if not, one day)? Or can we expect to once again sign up for a Guardian License (most likely)?

Everybody missed their chance to have PSO for free when Sega was practically giving away Dreamcasts and keyboards at the beginning. I think if Sega had got enough people behind the Dreamcast PSO would be free to this day. I’m still scratching my head over how people (PS fan-boys mostly) messed that up. The PS2 wasn’t even out and the Dreamcast graphics were hand over fists better than the PS1. All you had to do was sign-up for Sega’s Sega.net ISP service and they gave you a keyboard and reimbursed you your money for your Dreamcast. Believe me I was there on day one and it was nice to play PSO for free for those few months. I hated it when they started charging for the guild licenses and people figured out how to hack PSO. All the game guard and server side saving you see today came from those days.

Korten12
May 2, 2011, 07:47 AM
I think they should due Buy to Play (which is already kind of obvious that the game will needed to be pay for anyway), and do the System that Guild Wars did.

Basicaly, instead of making a cash shop like most F2P games do, make a moderate one with character slots, some costumes, and that's its.

Then make players pay for large large expansions (GW: Factions, Nightfall, EotN.) These would help garner money for more updates.

I really can't see this being Pay to play, not because its not good enough (no the game looks amazing) but the fact that P2P is a slowly dieing breed. The only true successful P2P is of course, WoW.

Even though the game will cater to a different audiance for the most part, making it P2P will make it go up against WoW in the MMO-world, and will have a hit on its population.

Making no monthly fees would most likely garentee, higher sales, and more players.

Normally people have the arguement: But if their is No P2P then their won't be constant updates.

to answer that, I give you games like Vindictus and Maple Story, both games are F2P (not even B2P) and get constant updates. Maple Story is about to basicaly another expansion next month, and Vindictus since its release early this year (or was it end of last year?) has gotten many updates.

Some of them get more updates then games that make you pay for them.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 07:56 AM
You also have to take into account that it's sega. They're not exactly known historically for being consistent. I think most people are worried that free to play would end up translating to "lol maintenance?"

Korten12
May 2, 2011, 07:58 AM
You also have to take into account that it's sega. They're not exactly known historically for being consistent. I think most people are worried that free to play would end up translating to "lol maintenance?"

Huh, was this a problem I assume with PSU or something. I never played PSU too much online.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 08:05 AM
PSU US/EU was really bad about it, but I'm just talking about quality in general. sometimes they do amazing work and sometimes they make you want your money back.

Wayu
May 2, 2011, 08:12 AM
So it's luck-of-the-draw?

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 08:23 AM
well thats my experience anyway. aside from how they treat the US players though, I'm typically happy with the PSO/PSU series and this game looks really interesting so far. When it comes to these kinda of things though, I try not to get my hopes up.

Wayu
May 2, 2011, 08:23 AM
Good thing I'm Japanese. >.>

-Wayu

r00tabaga
May 2, 2011, 09:14 AM
@Wayu: How long have you lived in Shanghai & do you like it there? I have friends who work in Hong Kong on visa's and they LOVED their visit to Shanghai. I'm torn between China or Japan for future vacation spots.

Korten12
May 2, 2011, 09:53 AM
It seems like SEGA has a bit of a japanese complex, in the sense that they treat their japanese fans but much better then their western fans. Capcom, has a similar way, but its mainly only with Monster Hunter, but you could say that's more due to the fact that the games didn't sell to well here.

Akaimizu
May 2, 2011, 09:55 AM
The reason why they didn't do too well here is because of their business model in the West. Heck, even PSU had a pretty impressive start. A lot of players did initially join. However, as more monthly fees came and little content was produced, the players started leaving.

On the PC, there's no chance in reality they would be able to have a successful Western run if they don't keep up with the load of competition. It's why, even back in the early PSU-just-launching days I had my doubts on how long the PC users will keep playing the game due to just that. Competition on the PC platform. If your playerbase is paying monthly fees like the others, yet there is not even a 10% of the average successful content-update for the similar price; they're going to go to those games that offer a better value.

That's not this whole case of justifying the payments. It's just simple consumer shopping. That's it. Simple logic, really. It's everything behind why I said if SEGA really wants to tackle the PC market head-on with this, they better be ready to tackle it. Use a little knowledge passed down from the success and failures of other PC online games and seriously consider the business model learned from it.

PSO got away with it since it was the only console experience, at the time. The hackers and the NOL experience hurt it the most. Yet, it was pretty much the last time they could charge monthly fees across the board and *only* give the Western players 'Letters from Lionel' for all those payments.

ShinMaruku
May 2, 2011, 09:55 AM
Yes they have a reason to charge a monthly payment, get over it.

Don't bother playing it if you don't like it.
Indeed you fools keep paying them for substandard service. :P

r00tabaga
May 2, 2011, 10:08 AM
Fools??? Wow-

Zyrusticae
May 2, 2011, 10:09 AM
I will just reiterate...

No business model change guarantees more bang-for-the-buck, nor does it guarantee superior support.

F2P has as many pitfalls as P2P does, if not moreso, especially when it's poorly done. Trusting SEGA to do ANYTHING right in that area is just asking for trouble.

ShinMaruku
May 2, 2011, 10:26 AM
Fools??? Wow-

When you pay for a sub par product you egg them on to remain sub par. They could do better but since they make their money they won't. We see that ST has little motivation.

Wayu
May 2, 2011, 10:30 AM
@Wayu: How long have you lived in Shanghai & do you like it there? I have friends who work in Hong Kong on visa's and they LOVED their visit to Shanghai. I'm torn between China or Japan for future vacation spots.

Off topic, but sure.

Lived in China for 6 months. :D
Can't say how adults would enjoy it since I'm a HS student, but if you're coming in the summer, for the love of whatever you love bring lots of mosquito repellant and changes of clothes. It's hot as hell here in the natsu.

I like Tokyo better, but Japan isn't the place to go for obvious reasons ATM (Fukushima reactors).

-Wayu

r00tabaga
May 2, 2011, 11:00 AM
Yes, it was very sad to see. I hope that we never see anything like that ever again. Many good people lost their homes and/or lives.
: ( '''''''

chaoelite
May 2, 2011, 12:29 PM
$10 fee is to keep servers up not for updates have you costed prices on bandwidth? to keep a game flowing smooth for players you need excellent bandwidth to accomplish that. I'll gladly pay the monthly fee not to have to deal with stupid advertisements i want to play a game not see ads alot. And for all you free to play supporters point me to a game with graphics as good as PSO2 is gonna have that is free to play? If you can i want to play it lol xD

Mr Champloo
May 2, 2011, 12:54 PM
I hope we have to pay. Less bullshit people. No micro paying.

Malachite
May 2, 2011, 12:59 PM
$10 fee is to keep servers up not for updates have you costed prices on bandwidth? to keep a game flowing smooth for players you need excellent bandwidth to accomplish that. I'll gladly pay the monthly fee not to have to deal with stupid advertisements i want to play a game not see ads alot. And for all you free to play supporters point me to a game with graphics as good as PSO2 is gonna have that is free to play? If you can i want to play it lol xD

Yeah uh, I don't want PSO2 to be free to play, but PSO2 does not have very good graphics at all really. Also, not that it has anything to do with it, but there are tons and tons and tons of games that look worlds better than PSO2 that have completely free servers.

Korten12
May 2, 2011, 01:14 PM
Yeah uh, I don't want PSO2 to be free to play, but PSO2 does not have very good graphics at all really. Also, not that it has anything to do with it, but there are tons and tons and tons of games that look worlds better than PSO2 that have completely free servers.

Vindictus is an example, that has really good graphics and is free. Its quite similar to PSO, just much faster paced.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 05:03 PM
When you pay for a sub par product you egg them on to remain sub par. They could do better but since they make their money they won't. We see that ST has little motivation.



On the other hand if you don't show sega you're interested, they may not do a western release in the future. it's a catch 22: pay for it and get screwed or dont pay for it and get nothing.

Malachite
May 2, 2011, 05:05 PM
Vindictus is an example, that has really good graphics and is free. Its quite similar to PSO, just much faster paced.

Well that's true and not, because it uses that annoying "pay for tokens" to do more runs kind of system, which is far worse (imo) than a monthly fee.

chaoelite
May 2, 2011, 05:27 PM
Yeah uh, I don't want PSO2 to be free to play, but PSO2 does not have very good graphics at all really. Also, not that it has anything to do with it, but there are tons and tons and tons of games that look worlds better than PSO2 that have completely free servers.
I don't want to sound disrespectful but i need examples otherwise your just making it up. If ya want to post screenshot comparisons that can prove it then you da man :)


Vindictus is an example, that has really good graphics and is free. Its quite similar to PSO, just much faster paced.
K i googled this it does look mighty impressive but you only get 3 free tokens a week so that really limits what ya can do.

I almost can't imagine a pso type game ran like that for free you can only run forest on easy or you can buy something to allow caves thru ruins xD

Malachite
May 2, 2011, 05:32 PM
I don't want to sound disrespectful but i need examples otherwise your just making it up. And if all these are like Vindictus then they are not better since its limited at least with online fee get no restrictions for the month you paid for :/

Um, have you had your eyes closed this entire generation? The MAJORITY of games are free to play online, and look far superior to PSO2.

Seriously, it baffles me that you don't know that and you've played videogames in the past ten years. You have, haven't you? Lol

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 05:42 PM
indeed. PSO2 is pretty to be sure, but graphically it's definitely sub par

Zyrusticae
May 2, 2011, 06:59 PM
Well that's true and not, because it uses that annoying "pay for tokens" to do more runs kind of system, which is far worse (imo) than a monthly fee.
Exactly. If they WERE to go with a free-to-play model, Vindictus is NOT the one to copy in that regard.

Personally, I think a system like League of Legends (where you mostly just pay for skins and grind for everything else) would work nicely... assuming they HAD to go F2P.

Rovelius
May 2, 2011, 07:33 PM
Well it's sad to say but since monthly fees never gave SEGA an incentive to localize the japanese content AND secure their games, I'd say go for free-to-play. This way, PSO2 would slowly become a success. It's clearly above 95% of the market's F2P games. As long as the unavoidable Cash Shop doesn't sell overpowered weapons (only costumes... aesthetic stuff) I'm ok with it.

Monthly fees would not benefit this game due to the average PC gamer spending only on large MMOs.

moorebounce
May 2, 2011, 09:26 PM
It seems like SEGA has a bit of a japanese complex, in the sense that they treat their japanese fans but much better then their western fans. Capcom, has a similar way, but its mainly only with Monster Hunter, but you could say that's more due to the fact that the games didn't sell to well here.

Man they will never get over hiroshima and nagasaki and I wouldn't expect them to either. They only deal with us the U.S. because they have to. I think PSO would have a bigger fan base in the U.S. if they wouldn't charge for online play outside of your ISP and paying for the game. At least go the drug dealer route and get a good fan base going giving out free samples then spring the monthly charges on people.

They should make the first 2 or 3 months free then start charging folks.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 09:49 PM
It has nothing to do with being american. the japanese are xenophobic. let me put it this way: a lot of japanese people don't even like the chinese. I have a friend who's half chinese and half japanese who wasn't allowed to go to school in where they were japan cause of their heritage. This has nothing to do with WWII.

Tetsaru
May 2, 2011, 09:49 PM
Here's my views on this:


If the game is actually well-made, updated regularly, and properly managed, then I'd be okay with a $10-$15 monthly subscription fee.


If the game is "updated" and managed like how PSU was outside of Japan, it better be F2P. Same goes if multiple regions and/or servers are split up, because that will only cause problems.


If the game IS P2P, have about a month free period upon subscribing for the first time, so players can at least tell for sure whether or not they'll enjoy staying online with the game. Also, it'd be nice if Sega included a "buddy pass" voucher with your copy of the game for an extended free period for one of your friends to get online with you, and/or a free bonus item for the both of you.


I'd prefer NOT paying extra per month for the upkeep of additional characters. Some games like FF11 did this, and I hope PSO2 will allow for multiple character slots per account like the other online PS games did.

Wang My Getsu
May 2, 2011, 09:58 PM
i dont think SEGA can afford to make a free play.an alternative would be to allow a limited tial mode where you can only play for a certain amount of time

ShinMaruku
May 2, 2011, 10:01 PM
On the other hand if you don't show sega you're interested, they may not do a western release in the future. it's a catch 22: pay for it and get screwed or dont pay for it and get nothing.
In this day and age especially how PSO2 is looking they cannot do fortress Japan it would not be profitable to them.
Also the product is sub par and poorly handled and it does not come it's no huge loss. They must step correctly. They have not shown me any indication that they can do content that requires monthly payments.

GreenThunder
May 2, 2011, 10:03 PM
It would be nice if it were, but in all honesty I really doubt that they'll do this, at least not right away, anyways. Maybe a few years and on they'll consider it, but when it's released, nah.

Whatever the case may be though, undoubtedly I'm going to play it.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 10:29 PM
In this day and age especially how PSO2 is looking they cannot do fortress Japan it would not be profitable to them.
Also the product is sub par and poorly handled and it does not come it's no huge loss. They must step correctly. They have not shown me any indication that they can do content that requires monthly payments.

except PSOBB and PSU PC are JP only games and are their primary market. They end up resorting to "fortress japan" at every turn and they seem to get by just fine. unless there's something i don't know and the jp players aren't making monthly payments, there is no reason for them to think that business model won't work.

ShinMaruku
May 2, 2011, 10:37 PM
PSO and PSU were made with last gen tech for dirt cheap that's why it went so well. Sega knows costs and they can mitigate them pretty easily with older tech but with the new art and textures the costs should be significant enough for them to have to reach out of Fortress Japan.
With games like Tera coming out Sega will have to step up their game.

Niloklives
May 2, 2011, 10:47 PM
I'm not arguing with you, I'm saying I don't think sega has the foresight.

Blueblur
May 2, 2011, 11:03 PM
PSO and PSU were made with last gen tech for dirt cheap that's why it went so well. Sega knows costs and they can mitigate them pretty easily with older tech but with the new art and textures the costs should be significant enough for them to have to reach out of Fortress Japan.
With games like Tera coming out Sega will have to step up their game.

I agree and Sega of Japan is possibly paying attention this time. I mean, why else would the trailer have English subtitles when the direct feed version appeared on the official site?

ShinMaruku
May 3, 2011, 12:29 AM
Time will tell so far since I don't know if it's a sole ST production I shall be cautious.

BIG OLAF
May 3, 2011, 02:19 AM
I agree and Sega of Japan is possibly paying attention this time. I mean, why else would the trailer have English subtitles when the direct feed version appeared on the official site?

We can only hope. But, I always thought it was quite common practice in Japanese advertising to put English subtext beneath words in trailers for video games, movies, and other media. That being said, I don't think the "translated" trailer should be cause for too much joyful concern for non-JP consumers.

IceGreg
May 3, 2011, 02:31 AM
Free 2 play is the best thing for a game like PSO. There will be tons of more players, and if Sega is once again planning on putting a monthly subscription, the game won't sell well like PSU did not sell well.

Malachite
May 3, 2011, 02:47 AM
Yeah, and if there's no monthly subscription, they'll still lose money lol.

You guys should stop making up arguments and just say "I can't afford 10 dollars a month so I would like it to be free."

IceGreg
May 3, 2011, 03:02 AM
Just check the PSU sales worldwide. I don't want to change your mind, but just check. They are not good, that's all. If for you the problem is not the subscription, then can you explain the poor sales ?

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 03:12 AM
Just check the PSU sales worldwide. I don't want to change your mind, but just check. They are not good, that's all. If for you the problem is not the subscription, then can you explain the poor sales ?

You realize that was because the US version never had a CD key and even the JP one didn't require it for a while. That's pretty much unheard of and led to major piracy.

IceGreg
May 3, 2011, 03:19 AM
Sorry but I don't think piracy has something to do with that. I really think that the game would sell 10 times better if Sega does not make a 9.99€ per month subscirption. Perhaps a less subscription why not, but this is really too expensive. Sega should try with PSO2, the free to play mode, I'm sure the game will sell, and of course the game will bring money to Sega because a lot of people will buy things in the game, this is obvious, we already see that with the avatar things on Xbox-Live and the Home for the PS3

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 03:52 AM
US only pays $9.99. Sounds like it's Eu that's getting screwed.

$10 has been a standard for years. WoW charges even more, doesn't it? They're p2p AND have expansions you have to buy.

I don't see how $10 a month is such a big deal. if they do what they're supposed to and offer regular content updates, no reason to be upset, I mean that's pretty standard.

if they don't do anything at all aside from give us the content on the disk just to leave us twisting in the wind, then yeah I can't see them justifying P2P, but if that's the price to play it and it truly turns out to be an exceptional game, it might be worth it anyway.

But what I'm saying is this: PSO has never been a high volume game even in japan. It's just a niche kind of thing as it's not a true MMO. There's nothing wrong with that and worrying solely on numbers as though you have to compete with halo and final fantasy to make a profit is silly. It's even sillier to say you think a bunch of people will buy a game when they can easily torrent it. PSO/PSU has its fan and sega is really focused on them. yeah they want MORE money but if they know they can get X dollars from the PSO:BB and PSU people and those numbers are all they're really worried about, it doesn't make sense to act like you're being violated just because they don't don't wanna stray from what's worked for them.

IceGreg
May 3, 2011, 04:01 AM
$9.99 = 6.73

PSU = $9.99 = 9.99 :(

Yes in Europe we are always screwed as 1$ = 1 in videogames

sad :-(

WolfDreamer
May 3, 2011, 05:30 AM
I'm fine with paying $10/month for a good quality game. The only problem I ever had with paying for PSU is that US/EN residents never got the same "bang for your buck" that JP players got. I understand the game originates from there and has a higher fanbase there, but not getting the same updates in a timely manner always made me think it should be $5/month since I only get half the updates. (I know I know, old complaint, heard it thousands of times, blah blah blah).

Bottom line for me is that as long as SEGA puts in the time/manpower into my regions version of the game that everyone else gets then I'll gladly pay $10 to $15 a month for PSO2. Otherwise I'd rather they do a micro-transaction setup similar to what Vindictus has atm (minus the damn tokens).

Akaimizu
May 3, 2011, 07:19 AM
Just because it is $10/month doesn't give it a free ride. WoW does have expansions, but even without the expansions, you get consistent and great content updates and such. They are right on the ball with it. Sure, they specifically are $15, but I wouldn't use pricing as a judge. Heck, Guild Wars (no monthly fee) you simply buy the game and any specific expansion worlds you want. However, whatever you decide to stay with, the content updates and support was at a pretty prime level. They work hard and give you pretty consistent updates all the time. Need I even go on to other (1 time payment) games and/or F2P model games that have great and consistent maintenance and updates on even the content you didn't have to buy expansions or lock onto a monthly fee to get?

Still, a pay to play model isn't bad. Just be at least competitive. Which actually means, competent. Don't charge a like price or more of a price if you are just going to let your services slack off, that's all any average consumer would ask. Sure, some folk here aren't the average consumer (myself included), but I'm not blind that unless I want to be one of the only ones sitting on a game I love, they need to do something to get people (who otherwise would just jump on the relative value based on content of other games) to stick around with me.

Think of it this way. There's a number of good Online-playable RPGs, even on the PC. Ones with a single 1 payment that you play, you can get 4 or so of your friends together and play online with data backed by servers, and there is no fees at all beyond buying the game, complete with chat lobbies, ways to connect and get friends, form groups, etc. They aren't known models, but they're a long established method of free play that existed before and still exists outside of those F2P games. They accomplish pretty much what Phantasy Star Universe did, in terms of content, for much of it's lifespan. No real less features except for visual lobbies.

So yep. If you want to treat it like an MMO, don't turn your game just into an ORPG in business model, if your game plays like one. Just saying. Because the average consumer will just go for the ORPG.

norrisj15
May 3, 2011, 09:00 AM
I feel that the consensus is that if Sega provides the content that a $10 a month subscription should provide that everyone would be more than happy to pay it. I agree completely, but if we are going to get slow leaks of content like PSU did, I'd rather have a larger player base and have the game be free.

Comparing PSU to other free games isn't exactly fair, because we are dealing with Sega here. We have a very large company that should be able to support a pay to play game or free game, but history has shown us that they need incentive.

ShinMaruku
May 3, 2011, 10:05 AM
$9.99 = 6.73

PSU = $9.99 = 9.99 :(

Yes in Europe we are always screwed as 1$ = 1 in videogames

sad :-(
You guys pay more for EVERYTHINGS. So no not getting screwed.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:24 AM
What a lot of people are missing here about P2P is that a lot of us aren't even legally allowed to aplly for a credit card yet. So there is no way on heaven or earth, unless our parents pay the bill, that we can afford it. My idea is that they have a special store that allows you to get weapons and different things like that, but the weapons should not be more powerful or anything like that. They should also put weapons in it that no matter your level you can use, but you could find them on the battlefield except the version you find on the battlefield shouldn't be available at all levels. Also it should sell weapons from other games(E.G. weapons like Pandora Extreme from PSP2 ).

Akaimizu
May 3, 2011, 11:33 AM
That's a point. Though I guess they don't even allow minors to buy one of those pre-paid credit cards in the stores? I know they don't have an application process, and I'm not sure if they are limited in availability based on location; but I thought that was a possibility.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:42 AM
I supsose it is a possiblity, but I don't get $120 every Christmas and I don't get allowance. So that just screws me out of getting one and using it to pay for a year. I'm certain a lot of minors have the same story.

Palle
May 3, 2011, 12:13 PM
Personally, I'm hoping for a subscription-based service. I don't mind the cash shop model as such (I PLEX all the time in EVE), but I like the prohibitive quality of requiring a credit card on each account. I realize this isn't fair to many kids, but my preference is to have fewer children. My preference means nothing to SEGA.

Conversely, if we are going to have this slow drip of content, particularly if said content is on disc/download at time or purchase, then there's no way I'm paying a subscription until the purchased content is 100% unlocked. If that's the plan for this title, then I'd be fine with free-to-play.

Malachite
May 3, 2011, 01:53 PM
I supsose it is a possiblity, but I don't get $120 every Christmas and I don't get allowance. So that just screws me out of getting one and using it to pay for a year. I'm certain a lot of minors have the same story.

So you should get a job if you want to be able to afford the things you want.

Isn't what every other kid in the world does? lol

I understand some arguments about why, from a business perspective, Sega might go with a route other than Pay to Play. But this whole "...because I can't afford it" shit is just ridiculous.

If you can't afford it, then you can't get it. Isn't that how things normally work?

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 02:01 PM
@joshboyd1209: BTW, it's probably not a good idea to use your full name & birthday (Dec 9th) as your username. Just my opinion. You seem like a nice kid, just some good advice. That's all.

Canard de Bain
May 3, 2011, 02:33 PM
Oh hell no.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 04:51 PM
Not trying to be rude or anything, but I think another point to be made is if you're too young to get a job or get a credit or bank card, it provides a filter for kids and for stuff parents don't want their kids getting into. I mean if every 12 year old kid could go out and get the game and play for free, we'd get overrun.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 04:57 PM
Not trying to be rude or anything, but I think another point to be made is if you're too young to get a job or get a credit or bank card, it provides a filter for kids and for stuff parents don't want their kids getting into. I mean if every 12 year old kid could go out and get the game and play for free, we'd get overrun.

What's wrong with kids playing?

Anon_Fire
May 3, 2011, 05:02 PM
Young kids shouldn't be playing Rated-T games

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 05:03 PM
Young kids shouldn't be playing Rated-T games

That's irrelevant. Tons of kids today play M rated games.

Kyrith_Ranger_Pso
May 3, 2011, 05:15 PM
a 12 year old might as well be a "teen" which is what the T rating stands for, and what FEI LEE says is also true

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 05:16 PM
Not ones under 13, with responsible parents.

But if this game had a wider demographic besides 14-30 year olds with the gaming tastes of a japanese college student, this game would probably be advertised better.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 05:16 PM
The ratings are there for a reason. Parents not obeying those ratings just shows you how little parents actually get involved in the development of their children. and I don't know where you guys live but here in california, 14 year olds are able to get a work permit and get a job.

Malachite
May 3, 2011, 05:17 PM
The real reason is that they're incredibly annoying to play with.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 05:35 PM
The real reason is that they're incredibly annoying to play with.

I've met adults and teens that are far worse than little kids so that is opinion. Also just because a kid plays a mature video game doesn't mean the parents aren't involved in their development. Maybe it's just not a big deal.

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 05:40 PM
I've met adults and teens that are far worse than little kids so that is opinion. Also just because a kid plays a mature video game doesn't mean the parents aren't involved in their development. Maybe it's just not a big deal.

I've probably met more adults and teens more annoying than elementary school students...

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 05:43 PM
@joshboyd1209: BTW, it's probably not a good idea to use your full name & birthday (Dec 9th) as your username. Just my opinion. You seem like a nice kid, just some good advice. That's all.
I might seem all innocent and smiles, but I can be very dangerous and I know for a fact that my b-day is irelevant unless you can also search name at the same time and are looking in the right state. Anyways I could get a job, but where I live it would be a pain in the butt to find one(and to get there too most likely ) also it could be hard to keep it or earn even ten bucks a month from it not to mention the fact that I have bigger purchases I'd like to get(cellphone and Infinity for example ). Plus I typically wait till Christmas to buy the game so if it's free to play online I'll be much happier in buying it than having to buy a $10 prepaid CC every month in addition to the original purchase fee.

EDIT: OH and if you do something to kick off all the teen and kid players your servers will fold under just so you know(we tend to play the most videogames just so you know ).

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 05:45 PM
how many elementary school children have you socialized with to actually make an accurate comparison?

Similarly, hand holding is more annoying than anything because you feel bad for not wanting to do it and you end up dropping whatever you were planning to do for the day to baby sit. some dumb ass adult just wants to grief you? it's called the kick button.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 05:51 PM
how many elementary school children have you socialized with to actually make an accurate comparison?

Similarly, hand holding is more annoying than anything because you feel bad for not wanting to do it and you end up dropping whatever you were planning to do for the day to baby sit. some dumb ass adult just wants to grief you? it's called the kick button.

Are you saying you can't just kick a kid? Who says a kid can't be self sufficient in a video game? Also I'm sure your experiences also don't count as an accurate demographic so this has become moot.

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 05:54 PM
how many elementary school children have you socialized with to actually make an accurate comparison?

Similarly, hand holding is more annoying than anything because you feel bad for not wanting to do it and you end up dropping whatever you were planning to do for the day to baby sit. some dumb ass adult just wants to grief you? it's called the kick button.

My highschool was also a middle school, friends had little brothers, animal crossing, annnnnnnddddd the internet. :0

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 05:58 PM
I'm saying you'd feel bad kicking a kid or asking them to leave so you get stuck. it's not a kid's fault they don't know shit. Kids can absolutely be self-sufficient, but most aren't or need a certain amount of tutelage that many older people dont because they have a larger amount of experience to draw from. And since I've actually worked with kids and have studied child development, I at least have a reference point. You're just determined to argue with anything I say though as made clear by previous comments, so feel free to keep it up.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 06:00 PM
You're just determined to argue with anything I say though as made clear by previous comments, so feel free to keep it up.

Yes that's totally what this is about. I hate those types of statements they seem like such a cop out.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 06:02 PM
how many elementary school children have you socialized with to actually make an accurate comparison?

Similarly, hand holding is more annoying than anything because you feel bad for not wanting to do it and you end up dropping whatever you were planning to do for the day to baby sit. some dumb ass adult just wants to grief you? it's called the kick button.
Here is how I know that teens play the most videogames(I never said elementary brats although some of them do play a lot ) 1.) what kind of teen doesn't? the type that doesn't really have any or a parent/parents that doesn't allow them too or they just don't really have anyone too play with and that would be the only reason they would play them 2.) most teens are recieving HUGE allowances when they don't even do chores so they can afford to buy them and 3.) do you even go to Gamestop around Decmber 26 - 31? the store is packed with teens/kids buying games with their Christmas money. And what do you mean by hand holding? When I play I want to get out there and do missions(unless the TV is on distracting me ) I don't get on and start those dumb parties were weirdos meet up and complain about the world(I'm talkng about in PSP2 I don't have any other online PS games ).

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 06:09 PM
what does that have to do with anything? this was never a question about whether teens play games or not. it was a statement that certain games have ratings on the for a reason and that children (read: someone too young to get a job) shouldn't be playing a game marked teen - especially with online interactions which aren't rated by the ESRB. particularly in a highly social environment.

Teenagers play a lot of videogames? Thanks for stating the obvious.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 06:10 PM
I'm saying you'd feel bad kicking a kid or asking them to leave so you get stuck. it's not a kid's fault they don't know shit. Kids can absolutely be self-sufficient, but most aren't or need a certain amount of tutelage that many older people dont because they have a larger amount of experience to draw from. And since I've actually worked with kids and have studied child development, I at least have a reference point. You're just determined to argue with anything I say though as made clear by previous comments, so feel free to keep it up.
Not me if you are being a pain in my rear end I don't care how old you are I'm sending you back to the lobby and to my blacklist(if they even have one in PSO2 I've never even played a PSO game yet so I wouldn't know if there's a chance for that PSO2 will be a first for me ) so I don't see why that would be a problem for you. I mean what is the point in putting up with it? If they're getting you killed boot them no point in letting them drain you of your precious Scape Dolls .

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 06:15 PM
Cause I'm not heartless? If they legitimately are a kid and new to the game or just plain don't know, what kind of person would be nasty to them over that? they aren't doing something to you on purpose. I dunno about you but if I were a kid and were playing a game with people and they told me to leave cause i wasn't good enough, I might stop playing the game altogether. that kind of shit hurts a kid's self-esteem. Maybe you don't care about that, but I'm not that kind of person. It's annoying as shit to take that role with a kid, but I'd feel guilty as hell for making them leave over being a novice.

If you wanna label yourself as cruel and indifferent though, go for it.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 06:19 PM
You can get money for your server in other ways like how in games like DDO you can buy your way throught the game by using their DDO shop. So I propose something similar a shop that allows you to buy really cool weapons, but not have really powerful weapons(E.G. weapons that top the weapon that is most powerful in it's category like how in PSP2 Ely Sion is the most powerful sword so make weapons that wouldn't surpass it's PSO2 equivalent but would at most rival it )and have it sell weapons from other PS games like PSP/2/2I PSU/AOTI and have it sell really cool costumes especially ones from other PS games.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 06:26 PM
Cause I'm not heartless? If they legitimately are a kid and new to the game or just plain don't know, what kind of person would be nasty to to them over that? they aren't doing something to you on purpose. I dunno about you but if I were a kid and were playing a game with people and they told me to leave cause i wasn't good enough, I might stop playing the game altogether. that kind of shit hurts a kid's self-esteem. Maybe you don't care about that, but I'm not that kind of person. It's annoying as shit to take that role with a kid, but I'd feel guilty as hell for making them leave over being a novice.

If you wanna label yourself as cruel and indifferent though, go for it.
Well if they are genuinly new and a legit player you should be doing C rank or it's PSO equivalent(although I think it is best if you play in story mode till you have some expeirence under your belt and know how to kill some of the more common enemies and have some decent equipment ) so I don't see any reason to get ticked off there(I love a good massacre ). If you can do stuff that's higher than they are capable(simply because of their own level mostly ) of it is your own fault.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 07:45 PM
who said anything about teens? I just said kids are people too young to get a job. and I also said you can get a job at 14. YOU'RE the one not reading.
And I said not every teen wants to immediately go and get a job at 14 or can't or it would be extremely dificult for them to get one. Also what about the 13 year olds that are allowed by the ESRB rating standards to play T games, but not get a job? And what about those that couldn't afford too play online even with a job? Or what about those who can't get a job due to lack of jobs in the area? And need I mention that if every 14 year old in America got a job to play online games ther wouldn't be enough jobs to go around for adults and other people no longer living with their parents! SEGA should make it free to play simply because it is better for the economy not to have teenagers in the work environment. Having to many teenagers employed could sent us back to the late 19th century. OH and in case I forgot to mention this earlier the reason 12 year olds and younger are on online with their parents permission when they are not allowed to play T games or play it offline is, because they are misreading the "Online interactions not rated by the ESRB" warning.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:12 PM
*Sigh* seriously I think we're pissing Ryna off. look. What I'm saying is if you're old enough to get a job I'm not calling you a kid. if you can't get a job, I'm sorry, the economy is messed up like that right now, deal with it.

As for the topic, I don't think "I can't afford $10/mo" is a valid argument for why the game should be free to play.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 08:12 PM
I think PSOW might need a 3-warning = ban system...

On topic, if PSO2 is free-to-play I'm not sure that it'll be much different than paying a monthly fee or something. It seems more feasible to me that we'll pay for the game and then maaaaaybe have to pay to play online but I personally hope not. I'm still an HS student so my budget is tight.

My guess at a monthly fee would be around $40-60 (shot in the dark)?

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:16 PM
I think PSOW might need a 3-warning = ban system...

On topic, if PSO2 is free-to-play I'm not sure that it'll be much different than paying a monthly fee or something. It seems more feasible to me that we'll pay for the game and then maaaaaybe have to pay to play online but I personally hope not. I'm still an HS student so my budget is tight.

My guess at a monthly fee would be around $40-60 (shot in the dark)?

-Wayu

no way. monthly fees are low. PSU was $10/mo or $50/6 mo. 40 dollars a month? that's crack prices.

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 08:17 PM
Wasn't it $15 for a Hunter's License on XBL? I could definitely see that again. I'd prefer to play free, of course, but I just don't see it. I'd be happy with a discount if you paid 6mo/1yr up front. :)

ashley50
May 3, 2011, 08:17 PM
Not free :).

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:20 PM
no idea what it was on XBL. it might have been $15 including XBL Gold at the start...or they may have been charging you guys a premium for some stupid reason.

on PC/PS2 it was what I'd stated before.

Ryna
May 3, 2011, 08:21 PM
I cleaned up the topic. Let's keep the discussion focused on whether you want to see this as a free-to-play game or not. If you feel someone has gone off on a wild tangent or is insulting you, use the report button.

I'd like to hear more about the game and its server structure before I make up my mind on a pay-to-play or free-to-play scheme.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 08:21 PM
FEI LEE, cut it out.

I can't remember the price of XBL and haven't ever played a game with a monthly fee, so I was just guessing.

-Wayu

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 08:23 PM
no idea what it was on XBL. it might have been $15 including XBL Gold at the start...or they may have been charging you guys a premium for some stupid reason.

on PC/PS2 it was what I'd stated before.

I was referring to PSO on the XBOX. I was not a PSU guy.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:26 PM
I was referring to PSO on the XBOX. I was not a PSU guy.

Lol the hunters part didn't even register. They still jerked you around if it was $15 for ep I&II on XBOX. it was $10 on GCN.

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 08:30 PM
<face palm>

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:31 PM
M$ premiums suck.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 08:31 PM
GCN?

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:32 PM
Gamecube. Not sure what the "N" stands for. I'd say Nintendo, but why would it be at the end? Whatever it is, that's the common acronym.

Ryna
May 3, 2011, 08:33 PM
GCN?

-Wayu

GCN = Gamecube version of Phantasy Star Online. The monthly fee for it was reasonable.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 08:35 PM
The GameCube one I think.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:35 PM
psst wayu...


Your age is showing

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 08:36 PM
Gamecube. Not sure what the "N" stands for. I'd say Nintendo, but why would it be at the end? Whatever it is, that's the common acronym.
Actually I think it's there to keep it straight from another system.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 08:38 PM
I'm 17. >.>

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:39 PM
I doubt it. In Japan, the Gamecube was NGC(Nintendo GameCube). Somehow when it got to the US and EU it became GCN.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 08:39 PM
Network? I thought that was used to refer to it's online with PSO. Could be wrong.

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 08:41 PM
Gamecube Nintendo.

Nintendo Gamecube. o_O

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:43 PM
I'm 17. >.>

-Wayu


Meaning you were 7 when it came out =).



Network? I thought that was used to refer to it's online with PSO. Could be wrong.

nah I just looked it up. the N was for Nintendo. In japan it was NGC and it got switched to GCN in the US and EU. I used to work at a gamestop and that was what we used for filing too. and before that when I worked at circuit city that was in the product descriptions. It wasn't anything specific to PSO.


Gamecube Nintendo.

Nintendo Gamecube. o_O

weird right?

Anon_Fire
May 3, 2011, 08:43 PM
I'm certain that the monthly fee for PSO2 will be reasonable. Like what Ryna said about the GameCube ver.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:44 PM
Give credit where it's due >_>

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 08:44 PM
Depends on how long the Sony hacking crisis goes on.

-Wayu

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 08:46 PM
Depends on how long the Sony hacking crisis goes on.

-Wayu
What does that have to do with PSO2? SEGA owns the PSO servers.

EDIT: However if they do charge a fee I'm not going to be happy. Anyone know where the sign up sheet for the alpha testing is? I'd like to be able to play this before it comes out and when I know it wil be free.

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 08:47 PM
weird right?

Nnnnnnno'h. o_O

I didn't use a question mark. O_o

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 08:51 PM
What does that have to do with PSO2? SEGA owns the PSO servers.

EDIT: However if they do charge a fee I'm not going to be happy. Anyone know where the sign up sheet for the alpha testing is? I'd like to be able to play this before it comes out and when I know it wil be free.

On the official site. Bottom.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 08:52 PM
yeah but it's weird. to put the company name after the product name is totally unconventional. it's the Sony PS3, the Microsoft Xbox 360, the Nintendo Wii. going way back it was the Atari XXXX (2600, 5200, whatever), the Nintendo Entertainment System and the Sega Master System. Cars, computers, TVs, power tools, what have you. the company game comes before the product name.

That said it's unnatural to think the end of an acronym for a product would be the company name.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 08:55 PM
On the official site. Bottom.
What's the URL? www.PSO2.com? And you don't need any special qualifications. Do you?

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 08:59 PM
What's the URL? www.PSO2.com? And you don't need any special qualifications. Do you?

It's a lottery. You'll need Firefox for the Japanese language option in tools for you to apply though. On the psoworld homepage where the PSO2 video is, there's a link there.

Skye-Fox713
May 3, 2011, 09:03 PM
i think this is the one he is looking for - http://pso2.jp/ -

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 09:05 PM
Yes tyvm...hard to copy & paste w/this damn iPhone :(

Tetsaru
May 3, 2011, 09:06 PM
And you don't need any special qualifications. Do you?

I was told you needed a code, either from being a JP PSU or PSO:BB subscriber, or by purchasing a copy of the JP PSP2I game. Otherwise, I would've tried signing up myself...

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 09:06 PM
What does that have to do with PSO2? SEGA owns the PSO servers.

EDIT: However if they do charge a fee I'm not going to be happy. Anyone know where the sign up sheet for the alpha testing is? I'd like to be able to play this before it comes out and when I know it wil be free.

They ARE the ones making the game, just FYI ^^;.

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 09:10 PM
They ARE the ones making the game, just FYI ^^;.

-Wayu

Sony is making PSO2?

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 09:10 PM
@Wayu: Sony is making the game? I don't understand why the PSN crisis has anything to do w/SEGA team.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 09:13 PM
Wait, fail; nevermind.

Brainfart. Damn you AP Biology.

-Wayu

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 09:14 PM
Wait, fail; nevermind.

Brainfart.

-Wayu

Was like :-?

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 09:14 PM
@Wayu: Sony is making the game? I don't understand why the PSN crisis has anything to do w/SEGA team.
It doesn't, because SEGA is making it not Sony.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 09:20 PM
I got it, josh, lay off lol ^^;.

-Wayu

r00tabaga
May 3, 2011, 09:24 PM
<smile>

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 09:28 PM
You should all be ashamed of yourselves. :0

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 09:34 PM
r00t, there's smiley faces lol.:)


-Wayu

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 09:35 PM
Ok got dumb firefox. Now where do I find the Japanese translator?

Blueblur
May 3, 2011, 09:35 PM
Regarding GCN...

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/cube/arakawamemo2.jpg

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 09:39 PM
I'm not even going to go into how firefox isn't dumb. Listen - no offense, but unless you bought a japanese game from sega (which you likely haven't as displayed by the fact that you don't know where this stuff is) you can't sign up as it requires a code.

Also bare in mind that the entire game will be in japanese and most anyone who is playing the game will be speaking japanese.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 09:40 PM
Regarding GCN...

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/cube/arakawamemo2.jpg
WOW this is pathetic. They actually take the time to pull this crap?

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 09:40 PM
Regarding GCN...

http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/cube/arakawamemo2.jpg

LOL I dunno why just "Cube" makes me laugh.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 09:42 PM
I'm not even going to go into how firefox isn't dumb. Listen - no offense, but unless you bought a japanese game from sega (which you likely haven't as displayed by the fact that you don't know where this stuff is) you can't sign up as it requires a code.

Also bare in mind that the entire game will be in japanese and most anyone who is playing the game will be speaking japanese.
DARN IT! I know where to find them(www.playasia.com ), but I don't have the money for any of those(and that is for sure ).

EDIT: You still didn't answer my question about the translator.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 09:47 PM
you need a translator or do you need to change your browser's region? there's a difference.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 09:48 PM
If you just need to translate Japanese text just get Google Chrome.

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 09:53 PM
get opera too and dig up netscape. while you're at it, download ubuntu and get a few more browsers. you can never have too many of those.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 09:59 PM
If you just need to translate Japanese text just get Google Chrome.

-Wayu
AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH! If I keep downloading browsers at this rate I'll have them all!

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:02 PM
get opera too and dig up netscape. while you're at it, download ubuntu and get a few more browsers. you can never have too many of those.
The only one of those I've heard of is Opera. The only one you didn't mention that I've used(not of my own will ) is Safari.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:04 PM
Something else that occurs to me: I realize you don't have the money, but signing up for the alpha doesn't get you into the alpha. it gets you into a lottery. so if you were willing to buy a game on playasia for a chance to play the alpha but wouldn't play the game when it comes out if it's p2p...I dunno...

Also signup requires you to write your name in kanji and in katakana as well as provide an japanese address zip code and telephone number....I would just wait.


The only one of those I've heard of is Opera. The only one you didn't mention that I've used(not of my own will ) is Safari.

well yeah but I didn't wanna tell you to go buy a mac. I thought you were broke?

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:07 PM
Something else that occurs to me: I realize you don't have the money, but signing up for the alpha doesn't get you into the alpha. it gets you into a lottery. so if you were willing to buy a game on playasia for a chance to play the alpha but wouldn't play the game when it comes out if it's p2p...I dunno...

Also signup requires you to write your name in kanji and in katakana as well as provide an japanese address zip code and telephone number....I would just wait.



well yeah but I didn't wanna tell you to go buy a mac. I thought you were broke?
great(sarcasm ) anyone know when the english beta/alpha starts?(joking. I know no one knows )

Mr Champloo
May 3, 2011, 10:08 PM
Pay to play it keeps the game cleaner and safer and allows for more expansions and events.
f2p games always suck.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 10:09 PM
great(sarcasm ) anyone know when the english beta/alpha starts?(joking. I know no knows )

I'm hoping they don't forget about us over here.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:11 PM
A demo isn't out of the question, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:12 PM
Pay to play it keeps the game cleaner and safer and allows for more expansions and events.
f2p games always suck.
Go play DDO! if that doesn't change your opinion in mine you're a lost cause.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:13 PM
A demo isn't out of the question, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
No. You would be dead 20,000 times over before it happened.

EDIT: You know I'm starting to see a 1% difference between firefox and google chrome.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:13 PM
Some people might say that anyone who plays DDO is a lost cause. Food for thought.

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 10:24 PM
The new firefox...just feels like google chrome with a rearranged interface to me...

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:25 PM
I like firefox though and you can change the interface back to classic

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 10:28 PM
Just too used to chrome, it's eaten a chunk of my soul just like normal Google does to people's brains.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 10:29 PM
Google's the single most powerful organization in the world.

Anyways, veering off topic...

-Wayu

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:35 PM
If this is free to play..... Then it is free to play. 2 points for Ark, for getting this topic back on track =D!

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:40 PM
-10 points to ark for stating the obvious.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:41 PM
Some people might say that anyone who plays DDO is a lost cause. Food for thought.
Yeah I don't play it anymore(my mother told me there were demons in it and that two of her brothers quit playing and won't say what they saw on it that made them quit ).

EDIT: but it is a fun game(for the most part anyways )

Mr Champloo
May 3, 2011, 10:41 PM
Go play DDO! if that doesn't change your opinion in mine you're a lost cause.

You are a lost cause because you cant afford 10 bucks a month.
DDO was weak.

I have no problem paying for good servers good matience an expansion or two and some fun events and good support.

Plus it keeps some kids away. I have no problem paying 10/15 a month for this stuff. It's better then free games and all they do is update and micro transaction you up da butt.

P2P = Better game.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:42 PM
Thanks, I guess

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:43 PM
You are a lost cause because you cant afford 10 bucks a month.
DDO was weak.

I have no problem paying for good servers good matience an expansion or two and some fun events and good support.

Plus it keeps some kids away. I have no problem paying 10/15 a month for this stuff. It's better then free games and all they do is update and micro transaction you up da butt.

P2P = Better game.
Yeah and brings in the filthy sluts and peverts and I'm not a lost cause just poor.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:44 PM
Yeah and brings in the filthy sluts and peverts and I'm not a lost cause just poor.

Welcome to online gaming

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:45 PM
Ok wait what? I think someone here is homeschooled. I'm not sure I even wanna hear this argument.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 10:45 PM
Yeah and brings in the filthy sluts and peverts .

PSU XBOX360 demo was a good representation of that.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:46 PM
Ok wait what? I think someone here is homeschooled. I'm not sure I even wanna hear this argument.

I am lost to. But hey thanks for the negative ten points!

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:47 PM
Welcome to online gaming
Anyone know a good online game that is completely f2p and not retarded(Free Realms and Star Wars the Clone Wars Adventures doesn't fit the bill )? And by retarded I mean games that have a dumb storyline and has genesis graphics.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:47 PM
I am lost to. But hey thanks for the negative ten points!

I'm here if you need me.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:48 PM
Ok wait what? I think someone here is homeschooled. I'm not sure I even wanna hear this argument.
I attend the virtual academy for my state through K12.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:48 PM
I'm here if you need me.

Don't worry bro, I got a map for this.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:50 PM
I attend the virtual academy for my state through K12.

...so homeschooled

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 10:50 PM
What's wrong with sega genesis graphics? D<

Unless we're talking isometric mmos...those should die...

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:52 PM
WHOA WHOA WHOA!.... There are 12 grades through Kindergarten?

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 10:53 PM
ugh now I wanna play streets of rage 3...

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:53 PM
...so homeschooled
Essentialy.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:54 PM
Essentialy.

I just imagined your mom rapping about your lesson at your house... So you just got "Home""schooled"

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 10:55 PM
ugh now I wanna play streets of rage 3...

Aww man.....so many days when I was younger spent playing that game with friends.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 10:56 PM
What's wrong with sega genesis graphics? D<

Unless we're talking isometric mmos...those should die...
My DS Lite has better graphics on whichever game I own that has the worst graphics beats genesis graphics(and yes I have played the genesis. Remember Sol Deace? My favorite Genesis game. ).

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 10:58 PM
My DS Lite has better graphics on whichever game I own that has the worst graphics beats genesis graphics(and yes I have played the genesis. Remember Sol Deace? My favorite Genesis game. ).

Your mom has better graphics.......

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 10:59 PM
I think that's because the DS a lot more than genesis' 16-bits. :0

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 11:02 PM
as if graphics said anything about the quality of a game...

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:02 PM
Your mom has better graphics.......
How would you know(and food for thought my mother hates rap )?

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 11:02 PM
Totally I could play adventure on the Atari for days!....But then later get frustrated


How would you know(and food for thought my mother hates rap )?
and I don't like eating food with my mind dood.

Anon_Fire
May 3, 2011, 11:04 PM
People, keep this on-topic please.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 11:05 PM
How would you know(and food for thought my mother hates rap )?

that's not food for thought, that's a not so interesting point of interest.

and if your mom didn't have better graphics, I'd be very impressed with today's AIs


People, keep this on-topic please.

Kinda hard to stay on topic when 90% of the argument is "I don't wanna pay $10/mo" vs "f2p sux"

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 11:06 PM
I believe this game should be pay for play <.<

Anon_Fire
May 3, 2011, 11:06 PM
Forget it, close this thread.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 11:09 PM
Some of these topics are gonna make me die laughing

No_Cigar
May 3, 2011, 11:21 PM
I think it should be pay to play, but give a discount to 360 players since they already pay for xbox live. Or make it so you don't need live to play PSO2, just to pay the monthly fee.

Either that or give some kind of a promotion like reserve a copy and get 3 months free or something like that.

I can't play on PC cuz my graphics card kind of sucks, and I don't want to invest in it cuz it's not mine.

edit: WAIT, so has it been announced as PC only???

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 11:23 PM
Some of these topics are gonna make me die laughing

NOW you're catching on to the right mentality!

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:31 PM
as if graphics said anything about the quality of a game...
The graphics are the game.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 11:33 PM
The graphics are the game.

I'll take better game play.

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:40 PM
I'll take better game play.
One of the best SNES games or games period for that time period was The Legend of Zelda A Link To The Past graphic wise anyways although it had a really good story too.

Wayu
May 3, 2011, 11:42 PM
I'll take everything, thank you. ^^;

-Wayu

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 11:43 PM
I'll take everything, thank you. ^^;

-Wayu

We'll, yeah...just saying...:-P

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 11:46 PM
The graphics are the game.

spoken like a child

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:48 PM
spoken like a child
If you can't see the game clearly to understand the game then how are you supposed to play it.

Ark22
May 3, 2011, 11:49 PM
By pressing buttons and finding the goal. Ever played the Word Adventure game? You basically type your way through it

joshboyd1209
May 3, 2011, 11:51 PM
By pressing buttons and finding the goal. Ever played the Word Adventure game? You basically type your way through it
I played a game on www.alagaesia.com that you type your way through worst game ever.

FEI LEE
May 3, 2011, 11:52 PM
If you can't see the game clearly to understand the game then how are you supposed to play it.

You've played video games before right?

NoiseHERO
May 3, 2011, 11:53 PM
I care more about how people USE graphics, not how advanced the graphics are.

You can probably make an 8-bit game that looks a million times more artistic than any typical FPS game.

Niloklives
May 3, 2011, 11:59 PM
I played football on my atari 2600 and ice hockey on my NES. people have played games well before high def and the world of gaming computers and would always marvel at the sheer fact that electrical signals within a plastic and metal box were able to allow you to experience an environment that you could interact with. Just cause every game doesn't look like MGS4 or some other overly hyped game that does not take away from the quality of the game itself. To say you can't understand a game that's in 16-bit because it lacks in visual clarity is identifying a problem with your abilities of perception.

I was 3 years old when i played kangaroo on my atari and i never once had to work to figure out the the little brown kangaroo with the red boxing gloves needed to be maneuvered to punch the monkeys to climb the ladders to get the to top to save her little joey. Nor did I have difficulty navigating pacman to get the pellets and avoid the ghosts while eating the fruit. Nor did I have any trouble navigating my wide receiver to intercept a pass from the blue team's quarter back and run the ball back to the 10 yard line. So where is it written that you need 720p graphics and dvd quality sound to "understand" a game?

Tetsaru
May 4, 2011, 12:15 AM
One of the best SNES games or games period for that time period was The Legend of Zelda A Link To The Past graphic wise anyways although it had a really good story too.

*COUGH*Donkey Kong Country series*COUGH*


If you can't see the game clearly to understand the game then how are you supposed to play it.

It's called using your imagination. Hell, I play fucking Minecraft and 3D Dot Game Heroes, yet a lot of the games nowadays that are "good" or "realistic" graphics-wise often make it difficult for me to tell where to go or what to do because everything frigging blends in with everything else... especially shooters. If I can't see some random sniper dude who's wearing the same colored outfit as THE ENTIRE MAP, and then shoots me, and that stupid red blood spatter shit gets all over the screen and makes it even WORSE to see... UGH. But I hate modern shooters in general anyway. It makes sense in that particular scenario, but in general game design, if you want players to see something important, put drastically different colors on it than everything else.



HOLY FUCK how do these threads get derailed so badly.

NoiseHERO
May 4, 2011, 12:18 AM
*COUGH*Donkey Kong Country series*COUGH*



It's called using your imagination. Hell, I play fucking Minecraft and 3D Dot Game Heroes, yet a lot of the games nowadays that are "good" or "realistic" graphics-wise often make it difficult for me to tell where to go or what to do because everything frigging blends in with everything else... especially shooters. If I can't see some random sniper dude who's wearing the same colored outfit as THE ENTIRE MAP, and then shoots me, and that stupid red blood spatter shit gets all over the screen and makes it even WORSE to see... UGH. But I hate modern shooters in general anyway.



HOLY FUCK how do these threads get derailed so badly.

Watch yur mouth,

and it's because the arguments go nowhere. :0

Niloklives
May 4, 2011, 12:19 AM
I don't know. what I do know is I like this conversation way better.

FEI LEE
May 4, 2011, 12:24 AM
I don't know. what I do know is I like this conversation way better.

Agreed

joshboyd1209
May 4, 2011, 12:25 AM
You've played video games before right?
For almost 5 years now I started on a GBASP(I played A Link To The Past on that via the remake I was a little late for the SNES release )then I got a DSLite and eventually got my special edition Silver PSP-3000 which came with R&C Size Matters, Echochrome, & National Treasure 2 Book of Secrets.

NoiseHERO
May 4, 2011, 12:27 AM
Looks like the classic generation of gaming is screwed once hipsters die out.

joshboyd1209
May 4, 2011, 12:32 AM
Looks like the classic generation of gaming is screwed once hipsters die out.
We can always play the classics on the rereleases they make on the WII shop channel, PSN store, & XBox Live.

Niloklives
May 4, 2011, 12:40 AM
what's that have to do with anything? I thought those games were too ugly and had no discernible features or qualities to the point the games were unplayable.

joshboyd1209
May 4, 2011, 12:47 AM
what's that have to do with anything? I thought those games were too ugly and had no discernible features or qualities to the point the games were unplayable.
Only ones that are on systems like the Atari. I can't wait till Christmas I'm going to get a card for the WII shop channel and buy the first 3 games in the Legend of Zelda series.