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View Full Version : What do you think the technique system should be like in PSO2?



Tyreek
May 1, 2011, 02:07 AM
Since the gameplay reveal of PSO2 that displayed some combat for both Hunters and Rangers, I've been speculating how the battle system for Forces will be like. So, take this thread to speculate what could be a good system for the Force class. Will it be the basic level disks and strengthening from PSO? Taking a disk from level 1 and working with it till it maxes out in PSU? Or the technique charging system aka Foie->Rafoie from PSZ? Give your thoughts. And please folks, keep it clean.

Justyn_Darkcrest
May 1, 2011, 02:14 AM
I'd like to see them create a new system entirely. I was never l that fond of the "finding disks" system, but PSU's lvling took way too long to get anywhere productive. I did like PSZ's combat system for techs (i.e. charging for different techs).

I guess if I had to pick one, I'd go with something similar to PSZ, but as we're not limited by the lack of buttons, maybe just make it a charge system for the tech, so the longer you hold them the bigger the blast/more dmg. Whereas if you just press it quick you fire off a fast weaker tech.

I feel this system would work well in the faster based game play.

Don't really know how I'd like to see the leveling system for them, but I would love to see the return of not having to link them to a weapon. I was never fond of that feature in PSU, also I'd like to see better visual progression per level as opposed to every 10. I miss that.

Tyreek
May 1, 2011, 02:16 AM
Poll is up and running. Give that a once over and support your view.

Vashyron
May 1, 2011, 02:19 AM
Combing both Finding "Disks" and "Leveling" them.

So you'll be able to use what you like and then if you feel like using something else there's a chance you'll won't have to be spamming it until it's on par to the rest of your stuff.

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 02:26 AM
Or maybe find different attacks? Dunno just throwing that out there but maybe just something to add a "wow" factor and a sense of accomplishment when finding/leveling.

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 02:27 AM
I'd like to see them create a new system entirely. I was never l that fond of the "finding disks" system, but PSU's lvling took way too long to get anywhere productive. I did like PSZ's combat system for techs (i.e. charging for different techs).

I guess if I had to pick one, I'd go with something similar to PSZ, but as we're not limited by the lack of buttons, maybe just make it a charge system for the tech, so the longer you hold them the bigger the blast/more dmg. Whereas if you just press it quick you fire off a fast weaker tech.

I feel this system would work well in the faster based game play.

Don't really know how I'd like to see the leveling system for them, but I would love to see the return of not having to link them to a weapon. I was never fond of that feature in PSU, also I'd like to see better visual progression per level as opposed to every 10. I miss that.

I agree, though I've never played PSU, so I can't say the PSU tech system was good or not.

•Col•
May 1, 2011, 02:33 AM
I voted for an original system... Not entirely sure what I'd want, but I think if they made a mixture of two past systems they could come up with something pretty cool

FEI LEE
May 1, 2011, 02:35 AM
Hopfully they adjust it so going for elemental weaknesses actually rewards players this time around. I'd really like to see an emphasis of this at least on some level.

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 02:39 AM
I think something that'd match the fast paced action of the other two classes, without making forces too corney would be fine. hopefully something similar to tech mags and off hand casting returns like PSO and PSZ though. I hated the way most of the rods and staffs looked in past games.

As for the leveling and aquiring of techs, hopefully they'd do something interesting and challeging at the same time. I didn't mind PSZ's and PSO's way of doing things, but PSU's was monotonous. I'm hoping there will be something that will take effort without it feeling unnecessarily like a second job, but without simply relying on luck or what's in the shop either.

Maybe some techs you have to do something special to acquire, then you have to work to make them stronger, THEN you have to use them in combination with other techs to use their full powers...I danno, my imagination falls flat on magic related things, ironically. Just make sure it's flashy at end game.

RenzokukenZ
May 1, 2011, 02:43 AM
Maybe some techs you have to do something special to acquire, then you have to work to make them stronger, THEN you have to use them in combination with other techs to use their full powers...I danno, my imagination falls flat on magic related things, ironically. Just make sure it's flashy at end game.

That sort of sounds like how the Tales series (or from what I've seen, Symphonia and Abyss) does with their magic, where you start out with some basic spells, but as you use them, you unlock stronger variations as well as combining them to create even more spells.

Tetsaru
May 1, 2011, 02:43 AM
I think techniques should be leveled with use, and get stronger the more you successfully use them. It didn't make sense to me to have to keep finding higher level disks that you may or may not be able to use depending on your stats, and also find other disks that you can't use at all because you've already "outgrown" them. You do that with weapons, not actual moves; an iron sword is obviously stronger than a wooden sword, but you can't suddenly get better at performing a spin slash attack without first practicing the hell out of it. It'd be like how the Matrix movie did (*loads up a disc* I know Kung-Fu...!). That's how I see it, anyway. (out b4 lol realistic applications in video games)

As far as obtaining these moves, some basic ones like Foie could be in NPC stores to learn, or they could be learned by leveling up certain classes normally. Other spells, say, Grants and Megid, would have to be rare drops, learned at high levels, or involved with certain missions/quests as rewards.

Vashyron
May 1, 2011, 02:46 AM
Though I said about combing disks and leveling together, I think I rather much have something original that's done better.

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 02:47 AM
I think techniques should be leveled with use, and get stronger the more you successfully use them. It didn't make sense to me to have to keep finding higher level disks that you may or may not be able to use depending on your stats, and also find other disks that you can't use at all because you've already "outgrown" them. You do that with weapons, not actual moves; an iron sword is obviously stronger than a wooden sword, but you can't suddenly get better at performing a spin slash attack without first practicing the hell out of it. It'd be like how the Matrix movie did (*loads up a disc* I know Kung-Fu...!). That's how I see it, anyway.

/out b4 lol realistic applications in video games

Don't worry theres two kinds of unrealistic. The kind that just makes bad or lazy idea's, and the kind that makes things more fun. :0

Though comparing PS...to the matrix...isn't far off at ALL...especially after PSZ...and probably 50 sci-fi books that everything in videogames and movies copied off of 20 years ago, that video games and movies today copy from-BUT THAT'S OFF TOPIC.

Tyreek
May 1, 2011, 02:50 AM
I knew I forgot something. PSP2/i's system. I was more focused on the technique and leveling system instead of the mechanics. PSP2s system let Force users chain their attacks together like the classic Light/Light/Hard system in PSO. And PSP2i literally fixed what PSP2 ended up crippling in the Force system, giving techers speed, and boosted power, and faster recovery of PP. This of course dealing with the chain system they adopted since PSZ. It made the Force class a faster paced class compared to how it used to be.

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 02:56 AM
You can also compare building techs to Star Ocean: The Second Story. After so many uses of certain skills, they grow more powerful, have increased range, and some even look a little different(Like Shadow Flare- at it's first use, only a few explosions. After maybe one hundred uses, three times as many explosions and huge damage)

Justyn_Darkcrest
May 1, 2011, 02:56 AM
I agree, though I've never played PSU, so I can't say the PSU tech system was good or not.

It was a cool idea, lvling you're techs did give a great sense of accomplishment, however, it just took too long with too little in game reward for the work you had to put in.

I kinda do like the idea of finding certain techs (i.e. the more powerful ones) and then leveling them up afterward.

I'm really excited to see what they do with Forces :D

IceGreg
May 1, 2011, 03:00 AM
PSO/PSOv2 on DC was the best technical style, so I would not mind if they bring it back, for PSO2. Or a new style for this new game.

Tetsaru
May 1, 2011, 03:18 AM
Oh yeah, another important thing: no binding techs or PA's to weapons. Stupidest idea ever...

Justyn_Darkcrest
May 1, 2011, 03:25 AM
Oh yeah, another important thing: no binding techs or PA's to weapons. Stupidest idea ever...

^This, for the love of God this!!

NoiseHERO
May 1, 2011, 03:36 AM
^
Said that on the first page-NO IT'S OKAY, FORGET ABOUT IT.

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 03:48 AM
I say original, since both the disk systems and the leveling systems had their major flaws. Never played PSZ, so not considering that in my comparisons.

-Wayu

Galax
May 1, 2011, 07:58 AM
Original sounds good.

Maybe certain disks would have to be made out of others, such as Grants and Megid, because they're so much more...powerful, in some ways. Like grinding worked, except the disk has to come out, but you're not always going to get Grants or Megid, or whatever disk it is. You might get another Foie.

Perhaps you would have to have a certain milestone tech level if they did the disks that dropped with levels. Maybe you'd have to have at least Rafoie lv15 before you could just go ahead and use Rafoie lv23, you know?

Kyrith_Ranger_Pso
May 1, 2011, 08:00 AM
i voted PSO though i do hope they just use it as a template, preferably they would have more than 30 tech levels and possibly they could just use an original system and have the techs level up through use sort of like a mix of PSO and PSU, but if they force the god awful PSU system in which you equip techs to weapons, i won't go anywhere near techs, i absolutely positively from the bottom of my heart utterly despised that.

Shadownami92
May 1, 2011, 08:10 AM
One thing I would love is a bigger mix of tech types for what kind of tech combat you want.

I think a decent example I could think of is Rune Factory 3. They had magic that seemed to have longer cast times but bigger area effects, used more magic from the meter and delt more damage. And there was the battle mage spells that would be included into attack combos, did less damage, used less magic from the meter but could do some alternate effect that works with your melee fighting style.

Example is a stone spike fist move, could use it at close range and it would knock back enemies pretty far. It was actually pretty fun, especially because a lot of time when I solo'd as a Force I pretty much did a magic/melee combo anyways.

Although some of the PSP2i techs sort of worked like that, like that spinning fire shield of sorts. I really loved that tech.

Galax
May 1, 2011, 09:02 AM
One thing I would love is a bigger mix of tech types for what kind of tech combat you want.

I think a decent example I could think of is Rune Factory 3. They had magic that seemed to have longer cast times but bigger area effects, used more magic from the meter and delt more damage. And there was the battle mage spells that would be included into attack combos, did less damage, used less magic from the meter but could do some alternate effect that works with your melee fighting style.

Example is a stone spike fist move, could use it at close range and it would knock back enemies pretty far. It was actually pretty fun, especially because a lot of time when I solo'd as a Force I pretty much did a magic/melee combo anyways.

Although some of the PSP2i techs sort of worked like that, like that spinning fire shield of sorts. I really loved that tech.

RF3? Iirc, RF is the cross between Harvest Moon and fightin/magic, yes? Some of those spells were fun.

Some of them.

Chimeria
May 1, 2011, 09:58 AM
I liked PSO's style. I hated the whole grinding technic thing from PSU. I know you could also find certain disks as well to learn them but still. I'd see numerous people just using the hell out of technics to get them to a higher level.

So I'm all for progressing through the game and finding/buying higher level tech disks like in PSO.

Norco
May 1, 2011, 10:20 AM
Here is my idea.

I am sort if in the idea of conbining stuff from all games and using that. Basicly you buy/get a technique and learn it and then you level it up. Unlike PSU it should not be linked to a ceratin weapon, because seriously, that was just annoying imo.

I also think that stronger techniques such as megid or grants should require that you have some other technique at a certain level already in order to learn it. For example, to learn megid you you need foi level 20 or something like that.

In PSU I think forces was kind of left in the dust. You couldn't use techniques with any weapon, a technique basicly was a phonton art, there was SUV for casts and Nanoblast for beasts. So if you were a Newman force you didn't actually get anything special, sure could cast stronger techniques then others but imo it didn't feel special.

So how about we throw in the charging idea from PSZ? Except you don't charge to go from Foi to Rafoi but let's say you charge up a Rafoi to a "super Rafoi"? I don't want to throw away the Gi techniques and just like in PSZ when you finished charging a techniques you could run around chosing when to release it except if you got hit you would have to recharge it.

Also you should be able to bring up a fast menu like in PSO so you could cast any technique without having it in the action palette or the hotkeys.

What do you guys think?

Niloklives
May 1, 2011, 10:25 AM
I hated the idea of scouring for techs. maybe they could implement a point system for abilities that allowed you to buy upgrades to your PAs (or whatever they end up calling them) and such. you could earn them through leveling, or maybe they would be like MP and you'd just get some after a mission ends. but that would beat the heck out of grinding for weeks on end to get a tech up to snuff, and it wouldn't be as random as PSOs disk system.

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 10:48 AM
Original sounds good.

Maybe certain disks would have to be made out of others, such as Grants and Megid, because they're so much more...powerful, in some ways. Like grinding worked, except the disk has to come out, but you're not always going to get Grants or Megid, or whatever disk it is. You might get another Foie.

Perhaps you would have to have a certain milestone tech level if they did the disks that dropped with levels. Maybe you'd have to have at least Rafoie lv15 before you could just go ahead and use Rafoie lv23, you know?

Could work, but would be a major pain if you had to find the exact 1 level higher tech to upgrade it.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 11:14 AM
Use the tech leveling system from PSU, just increase the leveling speed by a good five times or so.

Blueblur
May 1, 2011, 11:53 AM
I prefer PSO's system but it wasn't perfect. I detest PSU's system for leveing Techs.


Oh yeah, another important thing: no binding techs or PA's to weapons. Stupidest idea ever...

I feel the same way about Techs. You should just be able to cast them with or without a Wand, Cane or Rod.

There's something no one has brought up: attacking with Force weapons. I'd like to see that ability be brought back with twist to it. I imagine that the each type of Force weapon would have it's own unique attack animation and maybe an elemental attribute assigned to them that would be related to the melee attacks.

For example, let's say Sega brings back the Club of Laconium (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=37&sortby=name) which has a special attribute of powering up Foie attacks by 40%. What if the melee attacks did Fire damage? If they went back to a system were elemental attributes were separate from enemy weakness (remember Native, Altered Beast, Machine and Dark?), this concept would help make Force weapons more than just a stat buff for using Techniques.

(Also, Special Attributes should totally come back. I loved tekking items in PSO and getting a crazy Special Attribute along with higher effective percentages!)

JC10001
May 1, 2011, 12:19 PM
Use the leveling system from PSU. By the way the leveling speed was fine in PSU. You should have to work for them. It isn't even that bad if you know where to go. IIRC, it took me like 1 week to get all techs from 40->50 when master classes came out and I wasn't even that hardcore about it.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 12:22 PM
No, leveling PAs really did take far too long in PSU. The only ones that leveled at an appropriate speed were melee skills, and then only about half of them.

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 12:31 PM
Use the leveling system from PSU. By the way the leveling speed was fine in PSU. You should have to work for them. It isn't even that bad if you know where to go. IIRC, it took me like 1 week to get all techs from 40->50 when master classes came out and I wasn't even that hardcore about it.

If that isn't hardcore I don't even dare to try to imagine your definition of the word.

-Wayu

JC10001
May 1, 2011, 12:31 PM
No, leveling PAs really did take far too long in PSU. The only ones that leveled at an appropriate speed were melee skills, and then only about half of them.

Leveling skills was way to simple. I'm telling you they shouldn't just let people level things at the blink of an eye...then people will have less to do. I've played a few games in my time where leveling is easy and you can max out your character super fast and then the game is like "so now what?"

I say this having leveled every PA in the game to its maximum pre-GAS.


If that isn't hardcore I don't even dare to try to imagine your definition of the word.

-Wayu

All that you had to do was make a Cast masterforce and run Sakura Blast S2 using 1 star equipment. You would get multiple levels per run. To me that's already easy enough. You know what they say...play smarter not harder.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 12:37 PM
Maybe you just have more tolerance for grindy bullshit than me, but I'd like to see skills level up at a reasonable rate through normal use. No one should be expected to shoot a Resta spamming Vahra in the face for a good 20 hours just to get one bullet maxed or to stand around a PP cube spamming buffs for days to max them out.


I'm all for a character experience curve similar to that of PSO (where it takes forever to hit 200), but leveling skills should never take as long as it did in PSU.

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 12:40 PM
@JC: And how long did it take to max out all of those skills? How much time was spent sitting in front of a computer screen mashing a single button for hours?

Maybe they could have Ability Points or some kind of points that you get after completing a mission to denote to various techniques, and if needed swap those points around?

-Wayu

Niloklives
May 1, 2011, 01:04 PM
Yeah the more I think about it the more I like the idea of distributing points into "PAs"

Reksanden
May 1, 2011, 01:07 PM
Sounds, good, but we'll have to see...

Blueblur
May 1, 2011, 01:32 PM
Yeah the more I think about it the more I like the idea of distributing points into "PAs"

Sounds like Talents to me. I hope they don't do that. I just don't like them in MMOs where they are appropriate and even less so in light action RPGs like the last few Phantasy Star games are.

Wayu
May 1, 2011, 01:35 PM
It's just a random shot in the dark.

Double negative. Whoops.

-Wayu

RenzokukenZ
May 1, 2011, 01:37 PM
How about this very simple idea.

Instead of finding techs, you naturally learn them, and the power and other bonuses scale to your level.

Galax
May 1, 2011, 04:47 PM
How about this very simple idea.

Instead of finding techs, you naturally learn them, and the power and other bonuses scale to your level.

So when my Force hits the level cap, I have all my techs and they're all at max level. Then SEGA decides to update the level cap. Needs fine tuning.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 04:55 PM
To be fair, the level cap should be set from day one. The piecemeal bullshit of PSU was not good for the community.

ShinMaruku
May 1, 2011, 05:17 PM
I say buy and leveling them. Say you find a nice level on in a shop you get it then train it up if you so desire or wait till you can buy another one. But in using them you gain certain bonuses with usage like slightly higher crit rate on a favored tech or fast cast time.

Also allow some techs to roll together into a mega tech. If they can combine properly.

Blueblur
May 1, 2011, 08:02 PM
To be fair, the level cap should be set from day one. The piecemeal bullshit of PSU was not good for the community.

I agree with you for once.

Jinketsu
May 1, 2011, 08:17 PM
I wouldn't mind a combination of everything. The way I'm thinking, it would mean less level numbers on the disks themselves, making the next tier more worth the time to find.

Find a tech disk for Foie, for instance. As you use it, its power increases, but only marginally, and at a capped ratio. Then you find a Lv2 Foie disk. The power, at first, is not that much more from the top cap of Foie Lv1, but increases marginally as you use it as well. This way, They could space out the levels or MST needed to learn the techs, and make the highest level tech disk at 5 or so. It would also help people stay as up-to-par with their spell damage as they learn newer techs.

I also wouldn't mind a charge system with these spells. Maybe not in the sense of making them more powerful, but rather maybe more useful. Like a charged Foie could give slightly more powerful damage (though not by much) then a damage-over-time effect of "Burn" or something of that nature. For balance, it wouldn't be 100% hit ratio for the additional effect, though the higher power you've gotten the spell to, the higher the chances.

Maybe 10% starting, with a 1% upgrade every time you make your disk more powerful, up to an additional 10% every tier1 tech level.

I dunno. Ideas pop into my head.

Niloklives
May 1, 2011, 08:23 PM
It's just a random shot in the dark.

Double negative. Whoops.

-Wayu

Redundant. But technically not since randomness doesn't need purpose while a shot in the dark is typically goal oriented and uses some kind of approximation.

MidiPour
May 1, 2011, 08:27 PM
To be fair, the level cap should be set from day one. The piecemeal bullshit of PSU was not good for the community.

Better yet, let's hope they pull an epIII for the level cap.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 1, 2011, 08:41 PM
Never played episode 3.

Kent
May 1, 2011, 08:43 PM
I rather liked PSO's system - because the game is all about finding loot in the first place, and technique disks are just another essential piece of loot for those that can use them. At the very least, it beats out having to grind for hours on end to level up techniques.

That's not to say that the idea of levelling up techniques through use is bad by necessity - it's just that there has yet to really be a game where grinding skill levels happens at an appropriate pace, and I really think that the curve used for levelling things up at higher ranks cannot be linear, by necessity, if we want a healthy growth of skill levels.

If techniques have to be levelled up through use, I would propose a system that takes into account your character's level, and adjusts the amount of work you have to do to reach the next level based on that.

For example, a level 1 character would need to grind for hours and hours and hours to reach inappropriately-high technique levels, but when they level up, it becomes much easier to grind to that level. Think of it as the character's level being tied to how adept they are with using techniques, where characters will always be able to learn level-appropriate versions of techniques through a bit of work, but nothing that won't come from normal gameplay.

Alternatively, the determining factor for scaling how easily a technique can be levelled up could be based on the character's MST.

Again, the biggest problem with PSU's system was how much time it took to grind up even just a handful of techniques. It was, well, inhumane, and nothing that anyone sane could think would ever happen through normal gameplay. The fact that something has to be grinded outside of normal gameplay progress (as was the case in PSU) betrays the very concept of organic growth of the character's abilities, and is the worst possible way it could be handled.

A similar case of this happened with Castlevania: Harmony of Despair, where some characterw who level up their abilities through hitting enemies have to start up versus mode games and hammer on the boss with nothing but that ability for hours on end to go from level 8 to 9 (the max), just because that one level takes several times as many hits as the previous levels combined. This is the wrong way to manage such a system.

The aforementioned aside, I think it would be an interesting deviation from the formulas prior to have characters organically learn their abilities from a static starting point. Techniques (and Photon Arts, should they exist), are learned dynamically mid-battle by practicing with similar techniques, causing a character with experience using a specific technique to have a weighted chance of "discovering" a new, related technique. For example, only the basic attack techniques, Foie/Zonde/Barta, could be purchased from a shop or found in the field on a disk, but through practicing with Zonde, you can learn how to cast Gizonde, and from practicing with Gizonde, you may be able to learn Razonde, etc.. Perhaps it could be extended to allow practicing with a Gi- technique leading to contributing to your chances of learning another Gi- technique, making a branching web, of sorts, of connected learning contributions.

Anyone who's really sat down and played a SaGa game (most of them, anyway - or The Last Remnant) should understand what that system is like pretty easily. I think it'd be a fantastic basis for a system of learning techniques for a game like this.

moorebounce
May 1, 2011, 09:16 PM
I think your techniques level should be tied in with your character's level (instead of having to find discs)and also implement some way of rewarding players who do a good job at supporting the other players in their party.

Crystal_Shard
May 1, 2011, 10:49 PM
I chose an original new system as well. I have things I like from both PSO and PSU systems, and I'd not like everything to simply disappear.

A wishlist, and apologies for the upcoming wall o' text:

PSO style tech disks + PSU style leveling
I have a soft spot for leveling up skills through usage, thanks to older RPGs like Grandia 1, but it's very easy to see its weakness straight off the bat - way too much grinding.

Likewise, finding disks ala PSO cut down the amount of grinding, but the sheer frustration of not finding that one extra level despite the amount of work put in is something that turns off many people as well.

The most balanced ideas I can think of?

1) Find disks, but you can also earn levels through sheer hard work. Each disk you find will unlock the skill in question, and each time you use it the skill, you will earn exp towards raising that skill an extra level. In other words, if you're extremely lucky, you could easily find that powerful skill you've been looking for, but at the same time, if you're a vet at the game, you aren't stuck with mediocre techs because your luck didn't pan out.

2) Power and Proficiency system. Finding tech disks will only increase the absolute power output of the tech, and remains the same as PSO. Using the techs regularly however, will improve the utility of the tech, gaining additional functions, range, spread, special effects, etc. If you've been using a spell constantly and you find a disk level up, your proficiency carries over. Proficiency should not be annoyingly difficult to train, and should be made easier to train if you have a higher level disk, and should be calculated based on how many times a specific tech will be expected to be used over the course of the game.

Tech tiers and elemental types

Streamline the number of techs to something similar to PSO's system, but add a few of the good ideas that PSU/Portable 1/2/i . I think PSO 2's tech list could be fleshed out more with a few new tactical additions:

Megid series: Rename it to something gravity related, tech deals with pulling enemies into a gravity field and trapping them there if there aren't strong enough

Grantz series: Keep the giant laser beams, make them more powerful and long ranged, but make it shorter lived and without multi-hitting capabilities. Incorporating the light burst/spears from PSO, and the beams from above of the PSU Grantz could be ways to mix up Light, Medium and Heavy techs

Diga series: Scrap Diga itself, and focus on attacks that emerge from the ground itself, like Nos Diga and Ra Diga

Zan/Hewn series?: Wind based, perhaps paired with the renamed megid series, this would focus on very light attacks that push enemies away.

True Megid tier: Give back the dignity of the Megid name to where it belongs. ^_^ Add a completely new, extremely powerful tier, possibly non elemental series of techs. Should be high damage, slow to activate, very costly/slow cooldown. SHOULD not outdamage DPS of the lower tier techs by a huge margin and become the only tech in usage. Potentially tied to a rage/limit/break meter to stop it from being spammed.

Etc

Allow movement while casting for certain techs and/or allow charging a tech for greater damage/coverage in exchange for zero mobility.

Have weapons that will increase the mental strengh of forces, but do not let mental strength affect melee damage and do not make these weapons break balance by adding too much tech power. Also, have weapons that have nearly zero effect on stats, but can channel unique techs limited to that weapon, and power tied to the channeler's mental strength. Retain weapons that have special applications like improving range of support techs, increase specific tech series power/speed, etc.

No more techs binded to weapons.

Retain the 3 cast system of PSPo2/i and incorporate a special chaining system akin to the old PSIV tech combos. (ie: cast Foie followed by Zan/Hewn to create Firestorm, or Foie, Barta and Grantz to create Triblaster?)

No more OHKO techs, or make them very, very rare. Perhaps only as a rare side effect from a higher tier tech or something that only comes out of a very complex combo tech chain.

--------------------------

Speculation aside, however fun it is, I am looking forward to Sega's big reveal. If they keep Forces similar to PSPo2i, I'm pretty much sold. ^_^

Genoa
May 2, 2011, 04:31 AM
There better be limitations dependent on character level. Nothing like that Lv.1 who had a Lv.200 mag and Heavenly/Mind units filled maxed out on Mind Mats to learn all the Lv.30 Disks already just to one-shot every room. >_>

My request is a larger variety of techniques though with exceptional usefulness.
We all know gibarta was lol
But DEFINITELY no techniques bound to weapons. Switching was such pain.

Shadownami92
May 2, 2011, 06:09 AM
You know what might be fun? Having a PSO amount of techs, but maybe allow for magic charging/targeting to do spell stacking like in Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.

So you and another Force could stack your techs onto eachother for varied effects, maybe add the ability to stack your spell onto somebody's Photon Arts to get an elemental version of that art. That could bring a Force's support abilities to a new level, and it could be fun mixing and matching the techs for stacking.

Wayu
May 2, 2011, 06:21 AM
While a good idea, that's too complicated, and would be a turn-off for some people. There also would be some certain combos that would ultimately be the "best" per se, and everyone would just use those.

It would also destroy the whole Ra, Gi thing for techniques.

-Wayu

ARChan
May 2, 2011, 10:07 AM
I'll just repost this from another topic




What I would like to see is a little more variability in being a FO. Sure, it's nice using techs above Lv 25 in PSO but it got repetitive when I got that high. So, I'm actually a little more interested in there being the ability to combine techs. Well... y'know. There's always going to be your basic attack. Assuming that teching is going to be similar to PSZ, it'd be nice if you can attach another element to the basic element to act as the charged tech. To make things interesting, all available combinations would be available to the FO but only selected combinations would be available for each character class. Here is a list of ideas:
Foie+Foie=PSO Gifoie
Barta+Barta=PSO Gibarta
Zonde+Zonde=PSO Gizonde
Zonde+Grants=PSO Razonde
Grants+Zonde=PSZ Gigrants
Megid+Grants=PSZ Gimegid
Foie+Grants=PSO Rafoie
Shifta+Deband=Simultaneous buff (half strength)
Foie+Shifta=Fire element zone attack buff
Foie+Deband=Fire element zone defense buff
Resta+Resta=Resta range of PSO FOmarl/newearl
Resta+Anti=PSO Reverser
Grants+Grants=PSO Divine Punishment
However, if this is the case, I foresee there being a whole problem of prerendering and maybe too much data on FOs.

redroses
May 2, 2011, 10:18 AM
The charge system sounds interesting, tho how I understand it it went: Foie, charge Foie -> Gifoie, charge Foie longer -> Rafoie?

If that is the case I would not like that system as much. I would find it more fitting if you could charge every TECH alone. Example: Foie, charge Foie -> shoot out 2 Foie Balls, charge Foie longer -> shoots out 3 Foie in different directions, charge Foie to the max -> shoots big Foie that can hit more than one hitbox on big enemies or explodes a little and hit nearby enemies.
This system could give all Technics a lot of diversity and suit them for a lot of different situations. But still giving one the ability to switch to RA or GI Technics without having to extra charge and wait. I would actually like this system.

yoshiblue
May 2, 2011, 10:21 AM
Charging and chain casting would be nice. Worst that could happen is if magic is attached to your current level.

Wayu
May 2, 2011, 10:24 AM
One problem that I just noticed...there aren't enough buttons for Forces.

You know how there are three buttons for Hunters for attacking? And how Rangers have two attack buttons and a 'mode switch' button? What'll Forces have to do?

-Wayu

RemiusTA
May 2, 2011, 10:31 AM
PSU's tech leveling was never hard, it was just tedious as hell. It wasn't fun, and your spells did NOT advance at the same speed your character did. I sware to god, most of the time i spent playing PSU after i made my force was leveling spells. All of them were useless until Lv11, and some of them even still until 21. And when AotI came out, and they started nerfing forces, i just decided to go ahead and get them to 31, since the dipshits decided to nerf the range back a level for all the spells.


As for the tech system, as long as the techniques constantly change form as they grow like in PSO, then i dont really care. I think that's the main reason why i never minded the Disk system in PSO; it was kind of like you were learning a new attack every 3 levels.

PSP2...im glad they changed it from PSU's, but at the same time, it never really felt like they dropped at a very good rate. They should have just changed the form of the technics, because it's like the game rarely ever dropped any discs under 11.



Honestly, i just hope it's separate from the weapon system PSO2 is using. Otherwise, they'll be making the same mistake they made with PSU. On first glance i thought they brought back the Customize system (they might have partially, we still dont know), but now it seems that we're still using 3 buttons per weapon. Hopefully, they'll come up with something clever for Forces.

Draggoon
May 8, 2011, 11:26 AM
I hated having to find Disks. I was ok with the PSU system of level progression in techs but a new better way would be appreciated. I don't like the PSZ way of doing techs. Holding down resta to heal your team is stupid IMO.

ARASHIKAGE
May 11, 2011, 03:14 AM
As someone that never enjoyed playing as a FO I'll defer to the experts here. I want what Justyn Darkcrest wants:


I'd like to see them create a new system entirely. I was never l that fond of the "finding disks" system, but PSU's lvling took way too long to get anywhere productive. I did like PSZ's combat system for techs (i.e. charging for different techs).

I guess if I had to pick one, I'd go with something similar to PSZ, but as we're not limited by the lack of buttons, maybe just make it a charge system for the tech, so the longer you hold them the bigger the blast/more dmg. Whereas if you just press it quick you fire off a fast weaker tech.

I feel this system would work well in the faster based game play.

Don't really know how I'd like to see the leveling system for them, but I would love to see the return of not having to link them to a weapon. I was never fond of that feature in PSU, also I'd like to see better visual progression per level as opposed to every 10. I miss that.

Although it was fun picking up tech disks for my Force buddies. I give them away freely to my friends because I stand to benefit from their tech growth. Now days everyone has every type of race and class on their account so we all get greedy... but that's a different topic for another thread. :rolleyes:

Getsuga
May 11, 2011, 08:21 AM
Why not a hybrid method?

Say you pick up a Foie disk, level 1. You can level it up all the way to 10 with a faster version of PSU's system before needing the next Foie disk, which would allow growth from 11-20. Disks would still be needed, but you could raise your techs naturally, and there'd only be three Foie disks, and at high levels, you could simply buy the third one, which would allow progression from 21-30, if that was the cap.

And once again, it should be waaaay faster than PSU's tech levelling.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 08:53 AM
Why not a hybrid method?

Say you pick up a Foie disk, level 1. You can level it up all the way to 10 with a faster version of PSU's system before needing the next Foie disk, which would allow growth from 11-20. Disks would still be needed, but you could raise your techs naturally, and there'd only be three Foie disks, and at high levels, you could simply buy the third one, which would allow progression from 21-30, if that was the cap.

And once again, it should be waaaay faster than PSU's tech levelling.

This isn't a horrible Idea, eliminate the monotony of PSU's tech leveling. and simplify the whole buying/finding your techs concept while also still balancing early game FO's.

I think PSU's would have made more sense in general though if it didn't take so long to level them...I mean whats the point of it taking 30 something hours straight to max a TECH, when theres 50 different TECHS, only people that had high level techs were really dedicated forces and people that had forces as their first characters. Which sounds nice balance wise at first. But it really just screws over all the casual players who didn't start as a force in Vanilla PSU. @_@

Niloklives
May 11, 2011, 08:57 AM
except that hardly does anything for the rate at which you learn your techs. that just makes it mandatory to have a disk on standby to be able to advance further. that is actually more crippling than anything else.

Really if they're going to go with a hybrid system, they need to up tech damage significantly, make the exp gain a bit faster...like by 4-6 times and make the spells gain per use, not per hit. This would make it so that spells like megid didn't take 6 years to get from 1 to 11, but the exp growth plummets sharply when you get to the last tier so that you get the increased range but the damage boosts you'd have to really use the spell. then you could still have a full array of disks and keep it so the highest level disks appeared on higher difficulties so that while it was not impossible to get a spell to level 50 by normal play, finding that one disk was that much sweeter.

the idea would be that early growth should be accessible through normal play and your ability as an asset to your team should not be contingent on you not running some BS mission for 1 week straight by yourself to get your RA techs up. but eventually it should be hard enough that you still have to work for it a little if you want to really put the hurt on enemies late in the game. you could also make it so that class and character levels modified PA growth so that maybe a lvl 20 force's tech levels didn't grow so fast after they hit 11, but once they hit 40 getting to lvl 21 on their techs would be pretty effortless.


This isn't a horrible Idea, eliminate the monotony of PSU's tech leveling. and simplify the whole buying/finding your techs concept while also still balancing early game FO's.

I think PSU's would have made more sense in general though if it didn't take so long to level them...I mean whats the point of it taking 30 something hours straight to max a TECH, when theres 50 different TECHS, only people that had high level techs were really dedicated forces and people that had forces as their first characters. Which sounds nice balance wise at first. But it really just screws over all the casual players who didn't start as a force in Vanilla PSU. @_@

even dedicated forces had to grind forever. there were even guides on how to AFK lvl techs it was so bad.

NoiseHERO
May 11, 2011, 09:37 AM
even dedicated forces had to grind forever. there were even guides on how to AFK lvl techs it was so bad.

That's what I meant by dedicated. :0

Unless you mean the early forces too...

Niloklives
May 11, 2011, 10:10 AM
I mean anyone who was willing to put months on end into getting their techs to the point where they were respectable. I had a lvl 120 masterforce with a bunch of her techs at lvl 41+ and quite a few at 31+. in fact I had nothing under 31 and I really put in months. this was in addition to my figh/gun/pt beast and casts that were always at the level cap with maxed out PAs and my acrotecher with everything on her maxed out. so I know what kind of commitment was involved in teching. and it was ugly for the poor payoff.

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 10:15 AM
I'd kind of like to have techniques you can level up with use, but it's also easier to but them at higher levels. Maybe they should go for a mix so that they will level up, but you can buy/find higher levels so you can just learn them at a higher level.

bns1991
May 11, 2011, 10:16 AM
I voted for the PSO tech system, but it would be cool if they could incorporate all the different systems from all the other games to make an original concept that is similar to the others but at the same time be an entirely different concept.

RemiusTA
May 11, 2011, 10:44 AM
I dislike Tech leveling because it encourages grinding. And the less grinding a game has, the more fun it is to play.

The reason i prefer disks is because it allows you to level your technics without doing anything special, aside from playing the game. You fight, they drop like any other weapon, and you get the benefit like you would any other weapon. If the one you need isn't dropping, then you can trade with other players or compensate -- it just makes the discovery of that other technic all the better.


But yeah, honestly, they can just come up with something new. As long as it isn't grind based or weapon binded (*shudder*).

Tetsaru
May 11, 2011, 11:33 AM
I dislike Tech leveling because it encourages grinding. And the less grinding a game has, the more fun it is to play.

The reason i prefer disks is because it allows you to level your technics without doing anything special, aside from playing the game. You fight, they drop like any other weapon, and you get the benefit like you would any other weapon. If the one you need isn't dropping, then you can trade with other players or compensate -- it just makes the discovery of that other technic all the better.


But yeah, honestly, they can just come up with something new. As long as it isn't grind based or weapon binded (*shudder*).

I dunno... the way I see it, you can either grind by leveling up techs with use, or you can grind by doing tons of mission runs hoping for that disk to drop. The former relies on your actual playstyle. The latter, however, is pretty much luck, unless you trade for it, which can also be a matter of luck in finding the right person with the right disk at the right time for the right tradeoff.

Also, if they bring back tech disks, I could see them possibly being exploited, depending on how the game is set up. In PSO, if you had a MAG (remember, you could equip a max level one when your character is only Lv. 1) that's maxed out in Mind, as well as a 4 slot armor that you could put a bunch of MST units on, you could learn those disks a lot earlier than normal. I'm not saying that it'll be that way in PSO2, but it's a possibility.

joshboyd1209
May 11, 2011, 03:12 PM
I dunno... the way I see it, you can either grind by leveling up techs with use, or you can grind by doing tons of mission runs hoping for that disk to drop. The former relies on your actual playstyle. The latter, however, is pretty much luck, unless you trade for it, which can also be a matter of luck in finding the right person with the right disk at the right time for the right tradeoff.

Also, if they bring back tech disks, I could see them possibly being exploited, depending on how the game is set up. In PSO, if you had a MAG (remember, you could equip a max level one when your character is only Lv. 1) that's maxed out in Mind, as well as a 4 slot armor that you could put a bunch of MST units on, you could learn those disks a lot earlier than normal. I'm not saying that it'll be that way in PSO2, but it's a possibility.
Actually if they do it the way they did in PSP2 you'll be able to learn level 30 techs at level one any ways.

RemiusTA
May 11, 2011, 03:45 PM
I dunno... the way I see it, you can either grind by leveling up techs with use, or you can grind by doing tons of mission runs hoping for that disk to drop. The former relies on your actual playstyle. The latter, however, is pretty much luck, unless you trade for it, which can also be a matter of luck in finding the right person with the right disk at the right time for the right tradeoff.

Also, if they bring back tech disks, I could see them possibly being exploited, depending on how the game is set up. In PSO, if you had a MAG (remember, you could equip a max level one when your character is only Lv. 1) that's maxed out in Mind, as well as a 4 slot armor that you could put a bunch of MST units on, you could learn those disks a lot earlier than normal. I'm not saying that it'll be that way in PSO2, but it's a possibility.

Wouldn't really call that an exploit though, really. Your power took a nice boost, but the TP costs also rose pretty high with it.