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Niloklives
May 5, 2011, 11:02 PM
Change log

[SPOILER-BOX]
1.8 - Updated a link here and there for new suggestions. Will do a more thorough sweep later.
1.7 - Added a section on power supplies
1.6 - Elaborated on GPUs and moved the relevant info from the bottom to the top of the about section along with some minor editing.
1.5 - Added a section about Macs near the bottom
1.4 - Added a new "Balls out" rig requested by Kimil Adrayne
1.3 - Added a link to a picture assisted guide on building your own computer
1.2 - Added a section on GPUs
1.1 - Added Ezodagrom's low budget gaming rig along with two of my own builds
1.0 - Kicked this crazy wall of text off
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Ok so I was going to try to wait til we got final system specs til I did this but some people just can't seem to wait. So what I'm going to do instead is post all the info I can and try to update it as new stuff comes out.

The purpose of this thread:



To help people determine if their computer is up to the task of running this game.

To give the not so PC savvy some ideas for PC builds and PC upgrades for the purposes of gaming with the intent to run PSO2 in the event their computer won't do the job.

To provide a place for all the PC questions to consolidate to avoid forum clutter, while having the big answers where they can easily be found - right on page 1.

To give updated information about options as they come and provide information that matches what we know about the game's specs and updated tech such as new processors and video cards.


Things I will NOT do:


Tell you how to build a computer. There are tons of guides out there. If I find a good one I'll probably offer a link so you can get step by step instructions. I may be able to help here and there, but I'm not a tech support line. Others with experience may be able to help as well and I encourage anyone with actual experience to offer any info they can.

Tell you how to overclock your machine. Overclocking in simple terms makes your computer run faster. It's not difficult with a home built computer, but if you do it incorrectly you can fry your CPU(processor) because you have to send more power through it than is supposed to be. Quite simply this isn't a tech forum and I would hate to see something get messed up because of a misunderstanding and suddenly your computer is dead.

Tell you how to upgrade your specific computer. There are thousands of different machines out there and each one is built a little differently. I'm happy to give you the basics on what to do, but i cannot see your computer and i cannot tell you exactly how to get to what. What I CAN tell you is use some common sense and a keen eye and everything should go smoothly.

Break down the tech. This stuff is complicated and there's a lot I'm sure people want to know like what one processor can do over another. I don't mind giving simple explanations and answers like how you don't need hyper threading or the difference between a locked and unlocked processor, but anything beyond simple answers are just as easily googled if not more so.

I will not look at each individual computer asked about to see if the processor is up to the task. I will post a link for GPUs and CPUs so you can see how yours stack up. If you don't see yours listed there, don't ask us if it will work because here's your answer: It won't.

Tell you how to upgrade your Mac. Macs are pretty much non-upgradable. The Mac Pro is the only model that is meant to be opened by an end user and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for cards you can get at reasonable prices for PCs. Some PCs GPUs can have their internal software(called firmware) converted to a mac version, however there can be compatibility issues. In addition, you have to have an intel based Mac and use a program called Bootcamp to allow you to install windows as this is a PC only title. If someone else has some tips on this, I'll post them here once I can verify them. Until then, playing on a Mac is not recommended.

Assume any responsibility for any damage you do to yourself, to anyone else, to your property, or anyone else's property as a result of doing this. In all my years of working with computers I've never heard of an incident involving any form of damage or injury. It doesn't hurt to be safe though so make sure you take all precautions possible and look up guides for everything you can if you don't have experience.


The reason I was waiting to post this:


The specs we've been given are for an Alpha. That means a lot can change between now and the time the game comes out. The suggestions I post will be in my estimation beyond anything you would need to run this game. The chances of it being a vast difference are slim to none, but it's worth mentioning.

Also, technology is always changing. What's top of the line today may be middle of the road next week. So rather than tell you to get something now when we still have a ways to go before the game comes out. It's better to wait to see what comes.

The reason you should wait to buy:


See above.

That said, if you absolutely need a new computer, were trying to get something put together or upgraded soon for other reasons and were looking for answers, or just can't wait: For now this thread is for you.

AGAIN I SUGGEST YOU WAIT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING AS I DO NOT WORK FOR SEGA SO I CANNOT HONESTLY GUARANTEE THE FINAL REQUIRED SPECS FOR THE GAME. I CAN ONLY MAKE EDUCATED GUESSES.

Simple terms to remember:


CPU: Central Processing Unit. Also known as a processor

GPU: Graphics Processing Unit. This can be a dedicated unit such as video card or a integrated unit that resides within the CPU.

PSU: Power Supply Unit

HDD: Hard Disk Drive. Also known as a hard drive.

Optical Drive: A device that reads (and possibly writes to) optical media. For example a DVD burner.

OS: Operating System (such as Windows)

RAM: Random Access Memory. The computer uses this for active processes such as open programs like your web browser or a game. Also known as system memory.

VRAM: RAM located on a dedicated GPU. Also known as Video RAM

More to come as needed



Specs for the alpha:

As mentioned before these specs are only for the alpha. What that means is it is a test version of the game before it enters the final testing stage (I know, wtf). It's almost certain the minimum reqs will go up for the finished version of the game, probably not by much, but it's worth noting.


[spoiler-box]
o Windows XP 32bit
o Windows Vista / Windows 7 32bit or 64bit
o Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 or higher
o RAM: Windows XP 1.5GB or higher
o RAM: Windows Vista / Windows 7: 2GB or higher
o HDD 8GB or higher
o NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT or similar graphics card or higher
o DirectX 9.0c or higher
o Broadband connection[/spoiler-box]


Again these are the minimum requirements for the alpha. Anything lower will not do, anything higher should be just fine if you get an invite to the alpha. I expect the requirements to go up a bit before the game is released, so if you have a 7800 gtx and think you just skated by: think again, cause I'd bet money you'll need something more before PSO2 hits the shelves. At the same time I don't believe they'll go up significantly, and I'd guess that if you have a 9800 GT or better you should be fine at least to run the game on low settings. All the same, the only parts I'll be mentioning here for purchase will exceed even a 9800gt to play it safe. If you buy something below what I mention by name and you end up being unable to run the game, don't blame me.


Useful links:

http://www.newegg.com - Great place to buy PCs and parts. Many items have free 3-day shipping. They are a US only website.

http://www.tigerdirect.com - Not as good as newegg, but reliable and they will match newegg's prices if you call them. Because they are largely tax free due to their only shipping location being in the midwest. US only.

http://www.microcenter.com - Another good store. They have better prices than newegg for CPUs. The downside is their selection is limited and you have to pick up CPUs in the store. The upside is they'll usually match newegg if you're nice, so you save on shipping and have a storefront to return things to if something goes wrong. They are US only and have limited locations, so make sure one is local before you try to place an order.

http://www.amazon.com - You can get just about anything here. if you order components from Amazon, make sure you match your part numbers and try to get only from amazon as opposed to random sellers. Amazon store listings are going to be the more accurate guaranteeing you'll get the part you're looking for.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gateway-eu - Amazon's EU gateway. This is the only place I've seen that really sells to EU shoppers. Everything else I've been able to find looked unreliable and there are shipping companies you can use to route US purchases to EU, but I am unfamiliar with them so use at your own discretion. EU prices will be higher than US prices, so unfortunately I can't always guarantee a certain price. I will add more EU webstores as they come to my attention.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html - lists high end GPUs from high to low in accordance to score. To make it easy, use the find command and type the name as it appears. There are some products that have similar names so you want to make sure you're looking at the right one. To be safe, I suggest you consider upgrading if your GPU is either unlisted or ranks below 900. Laptop GPUs are listed as well.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html &
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html - Look for your CPU here. To make it easy, use the find command and type the name as it appears. There are some products that have similar names so you want to make sure you're looking at the right one. The E6300 ranks in at 1115 - the top of the low range list. To be safe, I suggest you consider upgrading if you're below 1500. Laptop CPUs are listed as well.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html - A list of GPUs for Laptops. If you're insisting on a laptop, don't get anything that isn't listed in the top 50.


About GPUs:


[spoiler-box]
The minimum requirements for the Alpha are an Nvidia GeForce 7800 GT or better. Firstly, "or better" might need some clarification because "or better" does not mean "or newer". While newer cards typically better than older ones, a 9400 GT is not better than 7800 GT. This is because the technology isn't leaps and bounds better and so the difference comes down to what they offer at a certain price point. For example, a brand new GTX560 is going to certainly out perform the GTX460, but a GTX480 will be considerably better than that 560. The 7800 GT features only 256mb of 1000mhz GDDR3 ram with a 256-bit memory interface, and a 400mb core clock. Any high end card today will have a minimum of 512mb, so this is a non-issue. The other numbers like 256-bit memory interface and GDDR3 can be a little confusing and don't tell the whole story as the actual architecture of the GPU is also extremely important. As such I cannot give you any specific numbers to look for. If you're looking for a new card, I provided one that will run the game with 99.99% certainty and Ezo's list has cards that will exceed the alpha's specs for 70 dollars and up. if you're not sure if your current card will work, the 7800GT is just over 5 years old. If your gaming PC (note that I said "gaming") is 3 years old or newer I'd venture a guess and say you're ok. I have some links above that let you see how your GPU stacks up as well as a quick chart if you're curious as to how your GPU will do.

Thanks again to Ezo for providing a reference point for legacy and current GPU series in relation to the alpha specs. Note these are not all cards that will work for sure. This more so you can see what cards absolutely WONT work.

Comparable to the 7800 GT:

[spoiler-box]Desktop -


Radeon HD3000 series: HD 3850 or better.
Radeon HD4000 series: HD 4650 DDR3 or better.
Radeon HD5000 series: HD 5550 DDR3 or better.
Radeon HD6000 series: HD 6570 or better.

Geforce 8000 series: 8800 GS or better.
Geforce 9000 series: 9600 GSO or better.
Geforce 200 series: GT 240 or better.
Geforce 400 series: GT 430 or better.
Geforce 500 series: GTX 550 Ti or better (if Nvidia launches a GT530, this will change to GT530 or better).


Laptop-


Radeon HD3000 series: Mobility HD 3850 or better.
Radeon HD4000 series: Mobility HD 4670 or better.
Radeon HD5000 series: HD 5650M or better.
Radeon HD6000 series: HD 6530M or better.

Geforce 8000 series: 8800M GTS or better.
Geforce 9000 series: 9700M GTS or better.
Geforce 100 series: GTS 150M or better.
Geforce 200 series: GTS 250M or better.
Geforce 300 series: GT 335M or better.
Geforce 400 series: GT 435M or better.
Geforce 500 series: GT 540M or better.
[/spoiler-box]

[/spoiler-box]


About Store-bought Desktops:

[SPOILER-BOX]Desktops are very easy to work with. Typically they are easy to open and adding a video card can take very little time. HDDs RAM and GPUs can easily be added and removed as needed and even PSUs can be replaced in a short amount of time. some manufacturers make their cases a little more difficult to get into, but a keen eye and some common sense will get you into the computer quickly and you should be up and running soon.

Buying a brand new desktop, the CPU, RAM and almost everything else will be perfectly fine for gaming. The exceptions to this will be the GPU and PSU unless you buy a computer that is built for gaming. I typically don't suggest this as it's much cheaper to build your own computer meaning you can get something even better for less money.

Store-bought desktops have very low end power supplies as they are not meant to run high end GPUs. You can easily replace the PSU in your current machine to get around this and then install the new GPU.

Store-bought desktops typically have their specs listed on the front of the case. If you don't see the specs, you can look them up at the manufacturer's website by using the model number.

Note: if your CPU ranks too low on the CPU list, do not bother upgrading the computer as it will be a waste of money. You will be better off building/buying a new machine.


This GPU is quite good at 149.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390) Not quite as good as the other card I listed, it's very close and at a similar price point and Asus is ranked fairly high within GPUs. I removed the old link because because the 5850 listed before was discontinued and the price for even the reference card has gone way up since then. No longer worth the money. At the time of my posting this, there's a $30 Mail-in-rebate as well so it comes to ~$120 after you get the money back. Good deal.

Corsair's PSUs are some of the best. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028) This PSU will power just about any single GPU you get and will be very reliable. It may seem a little expensive at $74.99 but you don't want to skimp on your PSU and it has a $20 mail in rebate.
[/SPOILER-BOX]



About Laptops:

[SPOILER-BOX]Laptops are not recommended for gaming as they don't have the same processing power that a desktop does. To get similar computing power to even a 800 dollar gaming rig you'd have to spend more than twice as much for laptop. In addition, they are non-upgradable for the CPU and GPU, and are typically not easy to access to upgrade the HDD and RAM. This means that you're pretty much stuck with it as it is once you buy it. That said I will not be offering suggestions for upgrades or instructions on how to do it.

I will however give you this link:

15.6" Asus laptop w/gtx 460m (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230027)

This is a nice, fairly inexpensive laptop with a 15.6" screen and far exceeds the specs of the alpha. The GPU included is ranked in the top 30 and anything better than it means spending twice as much for the whole machine. Unless sega does something absolutely crazy, this computer should run PSO2 very well. Asus is also a very good company. If they are out of stock at newegg, try one of the other stores I list.

Brands I suggest avoiding:

Toshiba
Gateway
Dell
Alienware
eMachines
COMPAQ

[/SPOILER-BOX]

About Building your own desktop:


The benefits to building your own desktop take many forms. for starters you get to pick every part from start to finish, meaning you know exactly what's in your computer.

In addition, you get to pick your own case allowing you to find something that you like for looks as much as utility. Some cases even have LEDs on the fans and dust filters to keep the inside of your computer clean. The Cases can also have a tool-less design allowing you to put your computer together without ever having to look for a screwdriver.

Because you're installing a fresh OS, there will be no added software that runs when the computer starts up like weird trials or demos trying to sell you products you don't want. This allows the computer to run faster as it reduces the number of background processes.

Building a computer can be rewarding. You'll have a feeling of accomplishment every time you turn the computer on. Whenever you look at it you'll be able to think "I did that."

I personally find putting a computer together fun. You may as well

It's much cheaper than buying one from a store.

I will post several builds that will work well as gaming solutions all but guaranteed to run the game at different price points. Here is a guide to building a computer (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274745-31-step-step-guide-building) (NOT WRITTEN BY ME) If you feel like taking this task on. Skip step one as I've gone and done that for you with these lists. Alternatively you can buy the parts and pay someone else to do it, like a knowledgeable cousin, or a local computer store.

Things you will need:

A philips head screwdriver
A large open space like a good sized table
parts (duh)
literacy
steady hands
common sense
needle nose pliers(optional but helpful)

Ezodagrom has a topic with various CPUs and GPUs listed which can be found here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185721). They all meet the minimum for the currently known specs.


Ezo Has also provided a build for a modest gaming rig that can be built for just over $700.00 before tax and shipping.
[SPOILER-BOX]
CPU- Intel Core i3 2100 3.1GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115078) -$124.99
Motherboard- MSI P67A-C43 (B3) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130571) -$114.99
RAM- GSkill Ripjaws-X 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231427) -$49.99
GPU- Asus Radeon HD5770 CuCore 1GB GDDR5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121363) -$119.99
Optical Drive- Asus 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) -$20.99
HDD- Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200rpm (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697) -$59.99
PSU- Corsair CX600W V2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028) -$74.99
Case- Antec Three Hundred (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042) -$59.99
OS- Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986) -$99.99

Total: $725.91

[/SPOILER-BOX]

Here is a similar build I've devised with a much better video card and CPU for $100 more.

[SPOILER-BOX]
CPU- Intel Core i5 2400 3.3GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819115074) -$189.99
Motherboard- MSI P67A-C43 (B3) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813130571) -$114.99
RAM- GSkill Ripjaws-X 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820231427) -$49.99
GPU- Asus Radeon HD6850 DirectCU 1GB GDDR5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121419) -$159.99
Optical Drive- Asus 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204) -$20.99
HDD- Samsung F3 1TB 7200rpm (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822152185) -$69.99
PSU- SILVERSTONE ST50F-ES 500W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256061) -$59.99
Case- COOLER MASTER HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811119233) -$59.99
OS- Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16832116986) -$99.99

Total: $825.91



[/SPOILER-BOX]

This is on the semi extreme. This goes beyond standard gaming and into enthusiast. If you've been wanting to throw down some cash and show off your rig: this is your foot in the door. Because of the nature of this build, I'll be listing some extra options. This machine is a little on the expensive side.

[SPOILER-BOX]

CPU- Intel Core i5 2500k 3.4GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819115072) -$224.99
Motherboard- MSI P67A-C65 (B3) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813130574) -$179.99
RAM- GSkill Ripjaws-X 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820231445) -$109.99
GPU- MSI Radeon Twin Frozr II HD6950 2GB GDDR5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814127562) -$289.99
CPU Cooler- Cooler Master Hyper 212+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835103065) -$39.99
Optical Drive- Asus 24x DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16827135204) -$20.99
HDD- Samsung F3 1TB 7200rpm (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822152185) -$69.99
PSU- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817139005 -$84.99
Case- Lancool PC-K62 (Tool-less assembly) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811112239) -$109.99
OS- Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16832116986) -$99.99

Total: $1230.90

Notes:
[SPOILER-BOX]
This is a special build with some fun extra VERY OPTIONAL features.

The i5 2500k can be overclocked and while I won't tell you how to do it, the option is there.
Because of this, it's strongly recommended you use a 3rd Party fan for your CPU hence the Hyper 212+.
I've already added the cpu cooler to the list, but you can buy it for a bit less from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YPH0/).
I recommend you use the savings to buy a 2nd Fan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030DL37I/) for the cooler as it can take two on the heatsink.
This will push more air more quickly to better cool the CPU.
A Y-Splitter to connect the fans (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YNQS) to the same terminal on the motherboard is strongly recommended.

The 2500k has a big brother which is an i7 CPU. The 2600k (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070) for $314.99 is a little faster and uses Hyper Threading(HT).
As a gamer you will get little use out of HT but if you use programs like Adobe CS5, Lame, and HandBrake to name a few, the 2600k will perform much better.

This GPU has a dual fan configuration that keeps it cooler than most cards. this allows you to overclock it with software that is included with the card.

This motherboard also supports multiple GPUs. In order to do this, you'll obviously need a 2nd GPU of the same type.
The advantage of a second card will be minimal right now, but you can always add the card later...say in a few years when it's cheaper.
While many games benefit from this feature, some(though few) actually perform worse so unless you are having performance issues, which you won't anytime soon: Stick with one.

In addition you'll need a more powerful PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010) to power the second card. This alternative PSU is modular, allowing you to add and remove cables to make cables more manageable and reduce clutter within the case.
If you think you might want to add a card later, it doesn't hurt to get this PSU anyway.

The case listed here does not require any tools. You won't even need a screw driver to put it all together.
The case has a side window that allows you to see the inside of the case.
The case has 4 quiet blue LED fans cause it to glow blue in certain spots.
The case's top and front grill act as dust filters to keep dust from gathering inside.
The grills can easily be removed to be washed under a faucet when they collect too much dust.
Since you can see the inside of the case, it might be fun to put LED fans on the CPU cooler. I can recommend some (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026ZPFCK/) if anyone is interested. Make sure to get 2. If you choose this option, you can avoid getting the 2nd fan I mentioned, but you would still need the hyper 212+ and Y-splitter.

I recommend getting some Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007). This is a compound that sits between the CPU and the heatsink and allows the CPU to transfer heat more quickly to better keep it cool. The Hyper 212+ has some applied on it already, but the Arctic Silver 5 is better and if you make a mistake you have some extra just in case. Use a microfiber cloth to wipe the CPU and heatsink clean.

Lastly, Newegg currently has a combo deal with the CPU and ram I listed. Click here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.644341) to add the RAM and 2500k CPU as one item and save $28 or here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.644497) to get the 2600k and save $30

[/SPOILER-BOX]

[/SPOILER-BOX]

Here it is: This is a requested balls out super high end build. Based on the enthusiast build listed above, this takes all of that and step everything up to the extreme. This is not a maxed out computer, but puts you in a position for it. It includes faster RAM, an incredibly powerful motherboard, a massive PSU to support up the 3 extremely high performance video cards, and one of the best CPUs and GPUs available while still affording you flexibility and expansion. This build will be screaming fast and play even the most demanding games at well over 60fps PLUS you'll still be able to overclock everything to really get the most out of your computer.

This machine features a Solid State drive(SSD) which is like a giant flash drive. It's silent, runs cool, has better longevity than a normal HDD and is extremely fast. It's limited by its capacity though, so only put your OS and a few choice games on it. This will increase overall performance while leaving your computer less vulnerable to dying due to a failed HDD. This build also includes an extremely High performance 2TB HDD to store music movies and games on. Every plus option aside from multiple GPUs and extra HDDs and RAM from the enthusiast build is included and as an added feature, this one comes with a Bluray burner. The motherboard can take up to 32GB of RAM. This requires 8GB DIMMs which as far as I know do not exist yet. For now I recommend you use 8GB Total and expand later as needed.

Unfortunately due to the size of the motherboard, the options for cases are limited but I picked out one of the best on the market.

As of right now, this is as future proof as it gets.

[SPOILER-BOX]
CPU- Intel i7 2600k 3.4ghz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070) -$314.99
Motherboard- Asus Maximus IV Extreme eATX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131700) -$364.99
CPU Cooler- Cooler Master Hyper 212+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065) -$39.99
Addiional CPU Fans- Cooler Master 120mm Red LED Case Fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103091) -$8.99 x2 (The hyper 212+ comes with a fan which you will not be using.)
Y splitter for the fans- Rosewill 12" Fan Power Y-Splitter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119148) -$2.99
Thermal Compound - Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007) -$11.99
RAM- G.Skill Ripjaw X Series 8GB (2x4) DDR3 1866 CL9 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455) - $124.99
GPU- MSI N580GTX Lightning GeForce GTX 580 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127579) -$525.99
SSD- Crucial RealSSD C300 2.5" 128GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348) -$237.49
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 7200RPM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136792) -$159.99
Optical Drive- Sony Black Blu-ray Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118050) -$109.99
Case- Cooler Master HAF-942 Full Tower (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225) -$189.99
PSU- Corsair Professional Series AX1200 1200w (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014) -$279.99
OS- Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992) -$129.99

Total: $2511.34

Note: You can add up to 2 more GPUs. They must be the same model to be linked, but offer extreme performance in most games. You can also add another 2 sticks of RAM to get up to 16GB total system memory. You'll have plenty of room for extra HDDs/SSDs as needed.

[/SPOILER-BOX]



If someone else posts a sensible build, I'll probably add it here. I'm looking to add one that will just barely exceed the minimum specs for the cheapskates. Obviously since we don't have the final specs the cheap-o one will take a while. these prices do not include monitors, speakers, keyboard or mouse as I assume if you already have a computer you have all these. I will however recommend a few monitors and a keyboard and mouse if you need them.


About PSUs:



Power supplies, as has been said before are the heart of your computer. They provide power to your entire system. A low wattage power supply is unable to adequately power a high end GPU and multiple devices.

The results of this can be catastrophic. Best case scenario you blow out the PSU, worst case scenario your CPU and GPU get damaged from erratic power surges or you could even fry your computer.

For this reason, it's important when upgrading your computer to make sure you have a PSU that can adequately power your computer. the minimalist GPUs in a computer don't take much wattage at all and you can easily skate by on a 300w PSU. However Higher end cards can range from 150-250 watts on their own and moreso if you overclock them. That means that you HAVE to get a new PSU if you're adding a performance videocard to a storebought rig and it's strongly recommended that you get a 600w PSU or better if you're building your own.

In addition, PSUs will degrade in capacity over time and with use. So while a PSU may be able to do the work when you first buy it, after a year of usage, that 600w PSU may only be able to provide 530-550w Make sure if you use a PSU calculator that you have it calculate capacitor aging of at least 20% into the final total. I prefer 30% to play it safe. Note that all the rigs I list have had these figures take into acount and still allow for additional HDDs and such to be added with no worry of overloading the system with the included GPU.

Lastly, not all PSUs are the same. Not every company uses quality parts. Sometimes this is reflected in the price, sometimes it's not. DO NOT BUY A CHEAP PSU. They draw way more power than they have to which will run up your electric bill and they are unstable and unreliable which can result in the same thing as having bought a PSU with low wattage. Make sure you buy a PSU with a single 12v rail and that it's ATX/EPS compatible as well as 80+ certified (bronze, silver and gold are even better). I personally like Corsair PSUs. their TX, HX and AX series are top of the line. Other good companies are Seasonic, enermax, xclio, and PC power and cooling. It should be noted that Corsair gets their PSUs from seasonic, so you can't go wrong with either.




Monitors:

Bare in mind the larger the monitor, the harder the video card has to work to provide a steady frame rate. I don't recommend using a screen larger than 24 for gaming unless you're using a high end card like the HD6950

[spoiler-box]
Asus 19" 1440x900 5ms LED VE198D Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236114) -$104.99

Asus 21.5" 1920x1080 5ms LED VE228H Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236100) -$159.99

Asus 24" 1920x1080 2ms LED VE248H Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236102) -$199.99

Asus 27" 1920x1080 2ms LED VK278Q Monitor w/2mp Adjustable Webcam (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236101) -$349.99

[/spoiler-box]

Keyboard:

[spoiler-box]
Logitech K200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126191) -$19.99
[/spoiler-box]

Mouse:

[spoiler-box]
Logitech MX518 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104178) -$37.99
[/spoiler-box]



About Macs:

[Spoiler-box]


Apple computers switched their CPUs from PowerPC to Intel based processors a while back.

Here comes a volley of good news bad news.

The first bit of bad news is this does not mean you can just start running windows programs and this game has a better chance of coming out for iphone than it does for MacOS

The good news is intel based processors means you can install windows and run windows on your mac giving you full access to the platform. This uses a program called bootcamp located in your utilities folder which is located in your applications folder which should be on your main HD (named Macintosh HD by default). From there you can switch between MacOS and windows at will. There are even some programs you can buy that allow you to run windows based games on your mac with limited support, but they have to add support for the game which may or may not happen.

The other bit of bad news is you still have to meet the minimum system requirements and Macs are notorious for having sub-par video cards. As of right now, The newest Mac Mini is unable to run the alpha, as is the newest macbook, macbook air and even some of the Macbook Pros.

There is a weird break in the design spec for the Macbook Pro, however as they last two break away from integrated graphics and use a dedicated GPU. The 15" 2.2ghz and the 17" Macbook Pro use a Radeon 6750M GPU, will run the alpha, and in my best guess run the finished version of the game just fine. All of the current iMacs should be fine, as will all current Mac Pros.

Because I am unfamiliar with the software that enables PC games in MacOS, I cannot advise it. You'll be using it at your own risk. I have however used boot camp and was able to get PSU to run on a 13" macbook from 2005 on low settings. There was some frame loss, but it was entirely playable. Because of that, I can recommend bootcamp. You'll need a version of windows to install. Windows XP, Vista 32-bit/64-bit, and 7 32-bit/64-bit are all supported. No other versions of Windows are supported at this time and since PSO2 doesn't support any other versions, this point is fairly moot.

NOTE: Due to the nature of 32-bit archetecture, only 4GB total memory(INCLUDING VRAM) can be allocated in 32-bit version of windows. Because of this, I strongly recommend a 64-bit version of windows 7. You can get an OEM copy from newegg for $99.99.




For those of you with older Macs:

If it's a G5 or lower, you cannot use Bootamp, you must have an intel based processor.
If you don't know what type of processor or GPU you have, here are some simple instructions:




Click on the Apple Menu located in the top left

Click "About this mac"

A window will appear that will show you the type and speed of your CPU as well as how much ram you have.

From this "about" window click the button that says "more info"

A larger system profile window with all of your specs will pop up.

On the left side is a list of different profiles. Open the hardware list and find the item that says "graphics/displays." click it

On the right side, information regarding your GPU including the model will be listed.

And there you go




All of the parts will appear somewhere on the list of CPUs/GPUs. Hit command (apple key) in your web browser and type the name of your CPU/GPU as it appears in your system profile - for example if the GPU is a Mobility Radeon HD 5850, that's what you type. If your GPU doesn't appear on the GPU list, your GPU is not powerful enough. if your CPU does not appear on one of the tewo CPU lists, it is not powerful enough.

All other specs must meet the minimums that Sega requires. 1GB of Apple memory is not the equivalent of 2GB of PC memory, so make sure you have everything.

I can't help you with bootcamp as I do not own a Mac anymore. I don't have a way of testing this stuff so I can only tell you what I know and the rest will be up to your google-fu. If I can find a good guide, I'll try to post it, but Apple is pretty good about making their software idiot proof.


Some quick tips:

When installing windows, Bootcamp will partition your HDD making a section permanently available only to windows. Once this is done, it cannot be undone without deleting Windows and everything within the partition, so keep that in mind.

I recommend setting aside at lest 100GB of your HDD for Windows. Windows 7 wants at least 20GB on its own, PSO2 will undoubtedly take up at least 10GB and likely much more as we get new content. Plus it's always good to have 10-20gb of open space on a HDD to allow data to be moved and for virtual memory to do its thing.

Bootcamp will make windows drivers for all your mac components, but last I checked you needed to have a blank CD, a flash drive would not do. Make sure you have one available.

Bootcamp can take a while to do its thing. if it looks like it hung up for a minute, give it some time as force quitting can make a section of your HDD unavailable unless you reformat or have special utility software.

[/spoiler-box]



About Alienware:

Alienware was bought by dell some years back, assuming their level of quality control and dell's notorious proprietary parts. While you can still install a new GPU in a dell, they overcharge for sub par parts and quite simply you aren't getting the best you can for your money. The best example I can give is my computer cost me less than $1200 to build and it's all around better than a $2000 alienware. You're paying for a brand name - and not a very good one.
More to come soon.

Note about Windows, 64 bit OSes and RAM:

In 32-bit OSes such as Windows XP, memory addressing is unable to use over 4GB of RAM. What this means is if you have 4GB of RAM and 1GB of VRAM, the system will only see 3GB of RAM. In order to use that last GB or ram you need to use a 64-bit OS such as Windows 7 64-bit. As such all builds I will suggest and all computers you buy from a store will come with Windows 7 64-bit. The downside to a 64-bit OS is that some older devices may not be supported and 16-bit programs (such as very old games) will not run. There are some work-arounds for this so feel free to ask if you're unsure. Basically if the game ran in windows 98 or before, it won't work natively in a 64-bit environment. Plan for this accordingly.

On a side note there are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7. Make sure you get the right one.

If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them within reason. Hope this helps.

Kion
May 5, 2011, 11:39 PM
Could you provide a general overview of GPU's? The specs only provide info for the 7800 GT. Could you provide a range of which Radeon and nVidia card series will have enough specs to run the game? Or a general look for 512 mem, 128bit GDDR3 and over reference?

Ezodagrom
May 5, 2011, 11:41 PM
I might as well put this here:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185721
It's a topic I made with the best processors and graphics cards at certain prices (prices based on newegg). I usually try to update the list every 2 or 3 weeks or so.


Could you provide a general overview of GPU's? The specs only provide info for the 7800 GT. Could you provide a range of which Radeon and nVidia card series will have enough specs to run the game? Or a general look for 512 mem, 128bit GDDR3 and over reference?
This isn't 100% accurate, I'm guessing a little bit here, it's possible that cards weaker than these could match the 7800GT, but these listed here are good starting points.

Desktop Cards:

Radeon HD3000 series: HD 3850 or better.
Radeon HD4000 series: HD 4650 DDR3 or better.
Radeon HD5000 series: HD 5550 DDR3 or better.
Radeon HD6000 series: HD 6570 or better.

Geforce 8000 series: 8800 GS or better.
Geforce 9000 series: 9600 GSO or better.
Geforce 200 series: GT 240 or better.
Geforce 400 series: GT 430 or better.
Geforce 500 series: GTX 550 Ti or better (if Nvidia launches a GT530, this will change to GT530 or better).

Laptop GPUs:

Radeon HD3000 series: Mobility HD 3850 or better.
Radeon HD4000 series: Mobility HD 4670 or better.
Radeon HD5000 series: HD 5650M or better.
Radeon HD6000 series: HD 6530M or better.

Geforce 8000 series: 8800M GTS or better.
Geforce 9000 series: 9700M GTS or better.
Geforce 100 series: GTS 150M or better.
Geforce 200 series: GTS 250M or better.
Geforce 300 series: GT 335M or better.
Geforce 400 series: GT 435M or better.
Geforce 500 series: GT 540M or better.

AzureBlaze
May 6, 2011, 12:23 AM
This seems like an extremely useful post, I am totally glad you have gone to the trouble to spell out everything like this, loads of people will certainly use it, especially as more news comes out of the developers.

I have read somewhere that "3 weeks before release of ___" is the BEST time to buy a new machine/build one/whatever.

(where __ is the game you want) It seems backed up by logic that 3 weeks gives you time to knock out any bugs/build the item if you were going to do it that way/eliminate the possibility of it being not up and running on the big day. It's also backed up by the OP in that "the longer you wait the cheaper the 'current' good stuff gets". Which is also true in PCs as they're always seeming to invent something newer/faster. So it's basically "to save money, fight the excitement and buy late".

If mine doesnt measure up I do plan to do this, so I thought to ask....good plan?
Should it be longer? Shorter? I DONT want something that will 'barely run it' or do minimums because it's sure to be annoying. On PSU beta the machine barely could and the ground was full of holes and everyone's face polygons fell apart around the eyeballs.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 12:37 AM
Well as an example I linked to a really good price/performance GPU for $140 - the HD 5850. Around this time last year it cost close to 280 for the same thing. Sega looks to be wanting to keep the specs on this game low, so I even a $100 card could run the game on high settings as of now. Who builds a computer to play just one game though?:-?

Ce'Nedra
May 6, 2011, 12:45 AM
I see you link to US only websites a few times, but what do you got for the non US members?

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 12:52 AM
I see you link to US only websites a few times, but what do you got for the non US members?

I'll look around and try to find some sites by recommendation. Seeing as I haven't shopped from anyplace outside of the US, I don't have any knowledge of that market and I can't link people to just anything. If someone outside of the US (for example Holland) knows some good sites, I'd be happy to list them. I'll be updating whenever I can though so keep checking.

EDIT: So far the best suggestion I have is Amazon. They actually sell computer components there, but you'll want to make sure you get the critical components from amazon directly. I'll update the OP once I have more to add

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 01:01 AM
Changed my list a bit, for example, changed the 8600GTS to 8800GS, just to be sure I wasn't putting there a card worse than the 7800GT, also added a laptop GPU list (the laptop list is much less accurate than the desktop list, there's so many laptop GPUs, it's hard to check which ones could be above the 7800GT, especially when it comes to Nvidia GPUs).

Also, both of my lists are just guesses, since there's no benchmarks comparing older GPUs with newer GPUs, it's hard to say for sure how comparable they really are.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 01:05 AM
well I have links to a place where the can find ranking and such. It's not 100% accurate due to every card behaving a little differently, but it's a good starting place.

FEI LEE
May 6, 2011, 02:55 AM
Not a question but thanks for putting this up.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 11:02 AM
@Nilok: I would just change a couple of things in your builds in the first post.

In the Core i5 2400 build I would change the graphics card to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121419
It's a little bit cheaper, and uses a really nice cooler. So far I've heard nothing but good things about the "DirectCU" coolers from Asus.

In the Core i5 2500K build I would change the power supply to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020
It's a newer version of the Corsair TX-650W, the TX-650W V2, and it's only $5 more expensive.

I would also change the hard drive in both your i5 2400 and i5 2500K builds to the Seagate in the i3 build. The Seagate is SATA 6Gbps, while the Samsung is SATA 3Gbps.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697

About monitors, I would change the 19" one to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236114

Kimil Adrayne
May 6, 2011, 12:04 PM
Say I wanted to go balls out on a gaming rig to ensure it lasted me a long time (like to play much higher requirement games than PSO2), how much would that go for?

joshboyd1209
May 6, 2011, 12:50 PM
Say I wanted to go balls out on a gaming rig to ensure it lasted me a long time (like to play much higher requirement games than PSO2), how much would that go for?
I recommend that you build it yourself, that way you can get all of the components that are the best for PC gaming.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 01:06 PM
Say I wanted to go balls out on a gaming rig to ensure it lasted me a long time (like to play much higher requirement games than PSO2), how much would that go for?
The 3rd build by Nilok is a pretty nice high-end PC. As I said in my previous post, I would only change a couple of things about it, the power supply and the hard drive.

But, if you want something even better, then:

Processor - Intel Core i7 2600K 3.4GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070) - $314.99
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065) - $39.99
Motherboard - MSI P67A-GD65 (B3) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130574) - $179.99
Memories - GSkill 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231445) - $109.99
Graphics Card - MSI Geforce GTX570 Twin Frozr II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127564) - $354.99
Hard Drive - 2x Seagate 1TB 7200rpm SATA 6Gbps (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697) - 2x $59.99
DVD Drive - Asus DRW-24B3LT 24x (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135221) - $23.99
Power Supply - Corsair TX-750W V2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021) - $104.99
Case - Lian Li Lancool PC-K62 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811112239) - $109.99
Operative System - Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16832116986) - $99.99
Total: $1458.89

And now some options for peripherals:

Monitor:
24" Monitor - Asus VE248H 24" 1920x1080 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236102) - $199.99
27" Monitor - Asus VE276Q 27" 1920x1080 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091) - $299.99

Mouse:
Optical Gaming Mouse - Logitech MX518 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104178) - $37.99
Laser Gaming Mouse - Logitech G500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104318) - $54.99

Keyboard:
Standard Keyboard - Logitech K200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126191) - $19.99
Gaming Keyboard - Logitech G110 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126100) - $99.99

Speakers:
2.0 Speakers - Logitech LS11 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121020) - $19.99
2.1 Speakers - Creative Inspire T3130 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116048) - $50.99
5.1 Speakers - Creative Inspire T6160 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116049) - $72.99
In my opinion, better than this is just not worth it.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 01:39 PM
Josh, can you please not use this thread to drive up your post count?


Say I wanted to go balls out on a gaming rig to ensure it lasted me a long time (like to play much higher requirement games than PSO2), how much would that go for?

The last one I listed using the 2600k processor is one of the fastest builds you can get right now without going absolutely nuts. After that it's SSDs and Triple channel memory. I like this better for now as it is a bit more future proof since the ivy bridge CPUs will use the same interface. additionally the the 2600k has been known to outperform processors that cost more than it even with all their bells and whistles and that's without overclocking. as of now I have a 2600k overclocked to 4.5ghz using that same cooler I listed in the build. At 4.5ghz I have been able to encode HD video at some alarming speeds. I can't really recommend anything better in good faith.

As far as video cards I can list some better ones, but I wouldn't spend much more more than 300 dollars for a GPU. I can give you a link to the current best one on the market though and add one last build with all the insane things like solif state grives and motherboards with 4 independent PCIe Slots

If you really want a balls out build, I can work on one.


@Nilok: I would just change a couple of things in your builds in the first post.

In the Core i5 2400 build I would change the graphics card to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121419
It's a little bit cheaper, and uses a really nice cooler. So far I've heard nothing but good things about the "DirectCU" coolers from Asus.

In the Core i5 2500K build I would change the power supply to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020
It's a newer version of the Corsair TX-650W, the TX-650W V2, and it's only $5 more expensive.

I would also change the hard drive in both your i5 2400 and i5 2500K builds to the Seagate in the i3 build. The Seagate is SATA 6Gbps, while the Samsung is SATA 3Gbps.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697

About monitors, I would change the 19" one to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236114

You won't see an actually difference in speed between 3.0 and 6.0 as it's not actually a speed increase but a change in protocol. if you look at the actual read and write speeds, you'll see what I mean. The F3 is the best 1tb HDD for the price for reliability, noise and speed. I say that begrudgingly as I love seagate, but the F3 is comes very highly rated. if you have evidence to the contrary though, I'll have a look.

I have zero experience with Asus video cards and that monster takes up 3 slots. if someone does decide to switch to xfire, that card will take up too much space. it's not a quality thing so much as a versatility thing. I can add it as an option for someone who wants to save some money though. I do like Asus quite a bit.

For the PSU I have the v1 and like it quite a bit. Is there a reason to use the v2 over it?

As far as the montor I agree 100% didn't see it last night so I'll change that.

I'm going to add a 4th option that should hit around $2-2.3k this will be faster, use a SSD and have more expansion options.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 01:42 PM
About the hard drive, I guess you're right. ^^;
About the card, only the DirectCU coolers in the HD6900 series and in the GTX570/GTX580 take 3 slots, the one in the HD6850 is dual-slot.
About the PSU, dunno if there's much difference between both, but it should be better. Plus, it's only a $5 difference, for someone that is buying a new PC, might as well get the newer version. :P

Anon_Fire
May 6, 2011, 01:47 PM
The things that I can upgrade if I wanted to.......... just RAM and the GPU

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 01:56 PM
About the hard drive, I guess you're right. ^^;
About the card, only the DirectCU coolers in the HD6900 series and in the GTX570/GTX580 take 3 slots, the one in the HD6850 is dual-slot.
About the PSU, dunno if there's much difference between both, but it should be better. Plus, it's only a $5 difference, for someone that is buying a new PC, might as well get the newer version. :P

Yeah I see that now. the image has some weird depth things to it. that made it look like the other 3 lanes models because of the heatsink. I can add it.

As for the PSU the v2s are still new and I'd rather more feedback on the before I tell somebody the get something that is basically the heart of their PC. I'll look into it more and make sure. Corsair is one of the top PSU mfrs though so I'm sure it's fine. just uneasy about telling someone to get a PSU that hasn't had a full year to be broken in yet. i appreciate the input though.

Edit: OK I just went through and found a bunch of stuff. the subtotal for the "balls out" build is absurd by my standards but gives you some really good options like better overclocking ability than the other boards as well as 3 way SLI, a much more powerful PSU and some other fun stuff. I'll add it with some info in a bit.

Colonel Mustard
May 6, 2011, 02:51 PM
iMac with, as it is called, Boot Camp?

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 03:10 PM
iMac with, as it is called, Boot Camp?

You'll need to find out the exact specs such as which CPU it's using and the GPU. bootcamp is an apple product and included with MacOS 10.5 and up. it should be in the utilities folder. The current generation iMacs with a 2.7 or 3.1ghz i5 CPU have a 6770m or 6970m GPU and will be fine for PSO2. If you click on your apple menu which is located at the top left of your screen you should see something that says "about this computer". Click that and you'll get a small window with some very basic information. another button that says "more info" will be there. click that and you can find all of your system's specs. check them against the cpu/gpu lists I gave you in the OP.

Note that if you do not have an intel based CPU, you cannot use bootcamp.

I'll be sure to add this to a mac section in a bit.

Anon_Fire
May 6, 2011, 03:31 PM
Any suggestions? here's my current setup:

Manufactuer: ASUSTeK
Model: ASUS CM1630
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 220 Processor, 2.80Ghz
Installed RAM: 4.00GB (3.75 usable)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics: ATI Radeon 3000

Don't want to spend too much because I can just take it in and have it upgraded from there.

Canard de Bain
May 6, 2011, 03:37 PM
Radeon 3,000 what?

Blu-ray is a waste of money.

joshboyd1209
May 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
Radeon 3,000 what?

Blu-ray is a waste of money.
Unless you want HI-def.

Anon_Fire
May 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
Radeon 3,000 what?

ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics

Canard de Bain
May 6, 2011, 03:52 PM
ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics

Was there just a 3000? If so, that is the first thing that needs to get upped.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
Unless you want HI-def.

josh shut up. A bluray drive is only important if you want to watch bluray movies on your PC. if someone wants to do that I'll tell them what to get. Until then, a dvd burner is cheaper and perfectly fine. I'm really sick of you coming in and giving people bad information. You were trying to tell people they needed a soldering iron before which just shows how little you know. KNOCK IT OFF AND READ A BOOK.


Any suggestions? here's my current setup:

Manufactuer: ASUSTeK
Model: ASUS CM1630
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 220 Processor, 2.80Ghz
Installed RAM: 4.00GB (3.75 usable)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics: ATI Radeon 3000

Don't want to spend too much because I can just take it in and have it upgraded from there.

My moderate build lists a PSU from Silverstone and the cheap build from Ezo lists a nice little Radeon 5770. I'd get those, but if you want to go cheaper, Ezo has a list of GPUs that are all ranked higher than the alpha's minimum 7800 GT. I wouldn't aim too low though in case sega ups the specs before the release.

joshboyd1209
May 6, 2011, 04:13 PM
josh shut up. A bluray drive is only important if you want to watch bluray movies on your PC. if someone wants to do that I'll tell them what to get. Until then, a dvd burner is cheaper and perfectly fine. I'm really sick of you coming in and giving people bad information. You were trying to tell people they needed a soldering iron before which just shows how little you know. KNOCK IT OFF AND READ A BOOK.



My moderate build lists a PSU from Silverstone and the cheap build from Ezo lists a nice little Radeon 5770. I'd get those, but if you want to go cheaper, Ezo has a list of GPUs that are all ranked higher than the alpha's minimum 7800 GT. I wouldn't aim too low though in case sega ups the specs before the release.
From what I've heard you need a soldering iron to connect some of the wires to some of the chip boards.

ShadowDragon28
May 6, 2011, 04:13 PM
WTH. I hope PSO2 will run on my PC. I've got 2 Gigs of Ram, and a GeForce 8600GTS. :/

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 04:21 PM
WTH. I hope PSO2 will run on my PC. I've got 2 Gigs of Ram, and a GeForce 8600GTS. :/
Based on the alpha specs, the 8600GTS is pretty much bare minimum for PSO2, its performance matches the performance of the 7800GT.


From what I've heard you need a soldering iron to connect some of the wires to some of the chip boards.
What? o_o
No, that's completely wrong. The only tool that is needed when building a PC is a screwdriver, nothing else.

BIG OLAF
May 6, 2011, 04:24 PM
At times like these, I wish I knew something about computers, especially building them. This whole thread is like Chinese to me. Considering that my crappy little laptop has zero gaming specs, obviously I'll need a new computer to play PSO2. But, I don't know shit about hardware, etc., and me trying to build a computer would probably end with the fire department showing up to my house.

joshboyd1209
May 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
Based on the alpha specs, the 8600GTS is pretty much bare minimum for PSO2, its performance matches the performance of the 7800GT.


What? o_o
No, that's completely wrong. The only tool that is needed when building a PC is a screwdriver, nothing else.
Where would you use a screw driver?! I've looked inside a PC before and unless my memory fails me there isn't a single screw that appears to have been put in during the building process.

Canard de Bain
May 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
Based on the alpha specs, the 8600GTS is pretty much bare minimum for PSO2, its performance matches the performance of the 7800GT.


What? o_o
No, that's completely wrong. The only tool that is needed when building a PC is a screwdriver, nothing else.

ahahhaha, no, 8600 was a massive disappointment.

Canard de Bain
May 6, 2011, 04:28 PM
Where would you use a screw driver?! I've looked inside a PC before and unless my memory fails me there isn't a single screw that appears to have been put in during the building process.

Securing the PSU, removing fans / heatsinks.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 04:30 PM
Was there just a 3000? If so, that is the first thing that needs to get upped.
It's the AMD 760G chipset integrated graphics.


Any suggestions? here's my current setup:

Manufactuer: ASUSTeK
Model: ASUS CM1630
CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 220 Processor, 2.80Ghz
Installed RAM: 4.00GB (3.75 usable)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics: ATI Radeon 3000

Don't want to spend too much because I can just take it in and have it upgraded from there.
One thing you'll definitely need is a new graphics card, but, since what you have is a pre-built PC, most likely you'll also need a new power supply for a new card, but if you don't want a new power supply, the Radeon HD5570, HD5670, HD6570 and HD6670 are all low power graphics cards that are above the minimum requirements for PSO2 alpha.


Where would you use a screw driver?! I've looked inside a PC before and unless my memory fails me there isn't a single screw that appears to have been put in during the building process.
What is holding the motherboard in the case? What is holding the power supply in the case? What is holding the hard drives in the case? What is holding the DVD drive in the case? Screws.


ahahhaha, no, 8600 was a massive disappointment.
I'm not saying the 8600GTS is good, just saying that it barely matches the performance of the 7800GT.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 04:35 PM
Where would you use a screw driver?! I've looked inside a PC before and unless my memory fails me there isn't a single screw that appears to have been put in during the building process.

You never need a soldering iron. I used to build and repair PCs for a living. you're confusing people and no one needs that. I'm asking you to stop before you make this thread into a mess like you have all the others you've polluted.

Anon_Fire
May 6, 2011, 04:41 PM
Well, I was thinking about switching over to Nvidia.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 04:46 PM
Well, I was thinking about switching over to Nvidia.
As I said, if you don't want a new power supply, the best cards for your system are the Radeon HD5570, HD5670, HD6570 or HD6670.
The competition from Nvidia at these prices have lower performance.

Nvidia cards are only worth it starting with the GTS450, but I wouldn't recommend this card in a pre-built PC, due to the usually weak power supplies in pre-built PCs.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 04:54 PM
nvidia is a great company for video cards. just AMD has better performance at the lower end of the market. the only nvidia card around that price i could recommend is the 550ti (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130625) You'll need a PSU for that. I'd still suggest the silverstone.

EDIT: Added the ultra high end build to the list. You don't need this to play anything that's out right now, but if you're the kind of person who is willing to throw as much money at a problem as you can. This is a great place to start. Feel free to send me some too while you're at it.

Malachite
May 6, 2011, 05:22 PM
facepalm @ josh.

Yeah, anyone on a budget is gonna want to go with AMD. In my opinion, nvidia comes out a few notches higher on the quality scale, but when it comes to price/performance, AMD definitely takes the cake.

Randomness
May 6, 2011, 05:34 PM
At times like these, I wish I knew something about computers, especially building them. This whole thread is like Chinese to me. Considering that my crappy little laptop has zero gaming specs, obviously I'll need a new computer to play PSO2. But, I don't know shit about hardware, etc., and me trying to build a computer would probably end with the fire department showing up to my house.

Its actually pretty easy. Screw stuff together, plug things into motherboard, close case. Assuming you have instructions.

That said, it's not like you have to build a comp, its just a little cheaper to do so. You can get plenty good deals on pre-built machines.

Malachite
May 6, 2011, 05:41 PM
Yeah building a PC is actually very easy, but if you really don't know anything about what you're doing, then I really would suggest buying a pre-built rig.

It's not just about putting it together, it's about installing Windows, drivers, etc. That, in my opinion, is far more tedious and annoying than physically building the rig.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 05:42 PM
building a computer is really easy. I've actually talked someone through it over the phone. Before that, they'd hardly seen the inside of a computer. It seems really complicated, but just got about it step by step and you'll find out it's pretty easy. If you ever played with legos or something similar, you can do this. just requires steady hands.

Like I said, the only tool you need is a screw driver. you never are applying heat or electricity to the system before you power it on. just make sure everything is fully plugged in and follow the labels and you'll be all set.

One of the builds I list even uses a tool-less design so you don't even need the screwdriver o_o.

Randomness
May 6, 2011, 05:49 PM
building a computer is really easy. I've actually talked someone through it over the phone. Before that, they'd hardly seen the inside of a computer. It seems really complicated, but just got about it step by step and you'll find out it's pretty easy. If you ever played with legos or something similar, you can do this. just requires steady hands.

Like I said, the only tool you need is a screw driver. you never are applying heat or electricity to the system before you power it on. just make sure everything is fully plugged in and follow the labels and you'll be all set.

One of the builds I list even uses a tool-less design so you don't even need the screwdriver o_o.

Gotta love modular design.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 08:10 PM
I have class in a bit but I'll add a short mac section when I get back. I was actually able to run PSU on decent setting on a 2005 macbook. not amazing, but the fact that it was using intel integrated graphics says something. iMacs use mobile GPUs, so they aren't ideal, but I think it's easily doable.

That said all have some info up for the Mac users. Anything else you feel I've omitted, let me know and I'll do my best.


What's it take to get a sticky around here?

BIG OLAF
May 6, 2011, 08:31 PM
Yeah, it probably is a lot easier than it sounds, but I don't want to risk it, since I'd be going in basically blind to any sort of computer/hardware/etc. knowledge. I'd rather just pay for a pre-made one. Not like I need anything fancy. The only games I'd be playing on it would be PSO2 and Diablo III.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 09:00 PM
Yeah, it probably is a lot easier than it sounds, but I don't want to risk it, since I'd be going in basically blind to any sort of computer/hardware/etc. knowledge. I'd rather just pay for a pre-made one. Not like I need anything fancy. The only games I'd be playing on it would be PSO2 and Diablo III.
I wonder if in the US there's any store like the ones here where I live. In certain stores here, you can just go to the store, you say which components you want, and the staff from the store builds, configures and installs the PC for a small price.

Here's one example of a PC built by a store where I worked as a trainee for a while. :3
[spoiler-box]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8495/gedc0630j.jpg[/spoiler-box]

NoiseHERO
May 6, 2011, 09:11 PM
I wonder if in the US there's any store like the ones here where I live. In certain stores here, you can just go to the store, you say which components you want, and the staff from the store builds, configures and installs the PC for a small price.

Here's one example of a PC built by a store where I worked as a trainee for a while. :3
[spoiler-box]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8495/gedc0630j.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I'd be tempted to try this...if I didn't have to carry a tower on a subway...

Split
May 6, 2011, 09:11 PM
So...what do you guys think are the chances of me being able to run this game on my Macbook? :D

Although I think it's going to be able to run Diablo 3...

BIG OLAF
May 6, 2011, 09:14 PM
I wonder if in the US there's any store like the ones here where I live. In certain stores here, you can just go to the store, you say which components you want, and the staff from the store builds, configures and installs the PC for a small price.

Here's one example of a PC built by a store where I worked as a trainee for a while. :3
[spoiler-box]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8495/gedc0630j.jpg[/spoiler-box]

That would be great, really. Because, looking at that picture you posted, I have no idea what any of that shit is.

But, I do have a cousin in Seattle that owns a PC repair store. He said a long time ago that he'd build me whatever kind of desktop I wanted, with whatever specs I desired, for 50% off. I wonder if that offer still stands...

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 09:16 PM
I'd be tempted to try this...if I didn't have to carry a tower on a subway...
In the stores that allow this here, they also have a configuration utility in the website, a customer chooses the components in the utility, they mount the PC in the store and send the mounted PC by mail.

Anyway, about pre-built PCs, did a quick check in newegg, this seems like a reasonably good one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229249

Kion
May 6, 2011, 11:04 PM
@Big Olaf If you spend the time looking into it, I don't think building a computer is too difficult. Mostly once you choose a motherboard it's just about putting what fits in the slots.

For motherboards there are (mainly) three kinds of slots
Slot LGA 775 - Older mother board for Core 2 Duo, and Celeron CPU's
Slot AM3 - Slot for AMD brand Athelon and Phenom CPU's
Slot 115 - Is the format the new core i3/i5/i7 cpu's use

Then there's memory
DDR2 400/667/800 - Older memory
DDR3 800/1066/1333- Current Standard
The numbers after the DDR are the speeds. Just look at what speeds your mother board supports and buy that.

PCIe 2.0 x16
This is the spot where the graphics card goes. Simple as that. Just take the time to figure out which card fits your need/budget.

So suppose you get a mother board with specs like
Slot 1155 (Intel i5 2500k goes in here)
4x DDR3 1333 slots(get 2x 2GB DDR3 1333)
PCIe2.0x16 (Radeon HD 5850 goes here)

Once you get all of that planned out, pick a case you like that will fit everything (full tower won't have any problems), and a power supply unit (generally around 600 watts), and your good to go. The only thing you need is a screw driver, sometime and common sense. The motherboard and the power screw into the case, then the cpu, memory and graphics card all snap into the mother board. After connecting the power wires to where they fit into you're good to go.

Making a new PC is fun and rewarding, but PSO2 isn't that demanding. Like Ezodragon pointed out, there are a bunch of pre-built pc's that will work and save you the trouble.


But, I do have a cousin in Seattle that owns a PC repair store. He said a long time ago that he'd build me whatever kind of desktop I wanted, with whatever specs I desired, for 50% off. I wonder if that offer still stands...

That's a pretty sweet deal. I would hit him up on that.

moorebounce
May 6, 2011, 11:07 PM
One need to know fact about RAM if going to use a Windows OS:

Windows only uses a total of 4GB of RAM. You can buy however much your motherboard can hold but it wouldn't make sense to go past the 4GB limit.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 11:12 PM
If you spend the time looking into it, I don't think building a computer is too difficult. Mostly once you choose a motherboard it's just about putting what fits in the slots.

For motherboards there are (mainly) three kinds of slots
Slot LGA 775 - Older mother board for Core 2 Duo, and Celeron CPU's
Slot AM3 - Slot for AMD brand Athelon and Phenom CPU's
Slot 115 - Is the format the new core i3/i5/i7 cpu's use

Then there's memory
DDR2 400/667/800 - Older memory
DDR3 800/1066/1333- Current Standard
The numbers after the DDR are the speeds. Just look at what speeds your mother board supports and buy that.

PCIe 2.0 x16
This is the spot where the graphics card goes. Simple as that. Just take the time to figure out which card fits your need/budget.

So suppose you get a mother board with specs like
Slot 1155 (Intel i5 2500k goes in here)
4x DDR3 1333 slots(get 2x 2GB DDR3 1333)
PCIe2.0x16 (Radeon HD 5850 goes here)

Once you get all of that planned out, pick a case you like that will fit everything (full tower won't have any problems), and a power supply unit (generally around 600 watts), and your good to go. The only thing you need is a screw driver, sometime and common sense. The motherboard and the power screw into the case, then the cpu, memory and graphics card all snap into the mother board. After connecting the power wires to where they fit into you're good to go.
Intel is doing a great job in trying to confuse their customers though. :3
First they released the high-end LGA1366, then released the mid-end LGA1156, earlier this year they released the mid-end LGA1155 to replace the LGA1156, but, even with the similar number of pins, they're not compatible with each other, and by Q3~Q4 they're about to release the high-end LGA2011...

At least AMD is offering an upgrade path. The soon to be released Bulldozer (AMD FX series) will use the new AM3+ socket, but the previous Phenom II and Athlon II processors will work in the new socket (there were some rumours that the new FX series will also work in the previous AM3 socket, but I'm not so sure about that).
The only new socket not compatible with the other processors iis the FM1 socket for the Fusion A-series APUs, but that's understandable, since the Fusion technology is quite a bit different from other AMD processors, due to the integrated graphics in the processor.

BIG OLAF
May 6, 2011, 11:17 PM
That's a pretty sweet deal. I would hit him up on that.

Yes, I think I will once I have the needed funds to do so. Because, well...


For motherboards there are (mainly) three kinds of slots
Slot LGA 775 - Older mother board for Core 2 Duo, and Celeron CPU's
Slot AM3 - Slot for AMD brand Athelon and Phenom CPU's
Slot 115 - Is the format the new core i3/i5/i7 cpu's use

Then there's memory
DDR2 400/667/800 - Older memory
DDR3 800/1066/1333- Current Standard
The numbers after the DDR are the speeds. Just look at what speeds your mother board supports and buy that.

PCIe 2.0 x16
This is the spot where the graphics card goes. Simple as that. Just take the time to figure out which card fits your need/budget.

So suppose you get a mother board with specs like
Slot 1155 (Intel i5 2500k goes in here)
4x DDR3 1333 slots(get 2x 2GB DDR3 1333)
PCIe2.0x16 (Radeon HD 5850 goes here)

I have no idea in the bowels of hell what you just said. I am not versed in the lingo of the computer parts. So saying things like "DRX AMP 3000XP 2.043/43 BAJILLION SERIES" means nothing to me, sadly :(.

Kion
May 6, 2011, 11:17 PM
I was mostly going for a basic description of each part type that goes into making a pc.

And yeah, intel is being pretty annoying with their socket types.

I haven't seen too much about the LLano series in terms of sockets. I had the impression it would be an onboard solution like the e-350. If the A-series llano can be swapped out and upgraded, that's pretty awesome.

Ezodagrom
May 6, 2011, 11:23 PM
I was mostly going for a basic description of each part type that goes into making a pc.

And yeah, intel is being pretty annoying with their socket types.

I haven't seen too much about the LLano series in terms of sockets. I had the impression it would be an onboard solution like the e-350. If the A-series llano can be swapped out and upgraded, that's pretty awesome.
The only thing I know is that the socket is named FM1, but yeah, most likely the desktop version of the A-series APUs will work like other processors, being able to replace it for upgrades and such, especially because Llano is going to replace the Athlon II and the lower-end Phenom II processors.

Kion
May 6, 2011, 11:42 PM
What I'm going for is a mini-itx media pc. Normally a D525/ion or e-350 would be enough, but I want something that can manage PSO2. I really don't trust intel with graphics(yet), so llano having the upgrade option seems like the way to go.

Niloklives
May 6, 2011, 11:48 PM
One need to know fact about RAM if going to use a Windows OS:

Windows only uses a total of 4GB of RAM. You can buy however much your motherboard can hold but it wouldn't make sense to go past the 4GB limit.

This is false. look in the OP. i talk about it there


So...what do you guys think are the chances of me being able to run this game on my Macbook? :D

Although I think it's going to be able to run Diablo 3...

Do you know the actual specs? If you don't know how to check, I explain how on page 2 or page 3. I'll be adding a faq of sorts on macs later tonight.

Kion
May 7, 2011, 12:03 AM
I was looking at the alpha spec page. They use 以上, meaning "and above". So the specs listed are the minimum specs for playing the alpha. From there it looks like they will likely expand into beta before starting the actual service.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 12:26 AM
I meant for his laptop

Kion
May 7, 2011, 12:29 AM
I was just throwing that out there. It wasn't a reply. Thought it might be good info to update the first page with.

Split
May 7, 2011, 12:30 AM
This is false. look in the OP. i talk about it there



Do you know the actual specs? If you don't know how to check, I explain how on page 2 or page 3. I'll be adding a faq of sorts on macs later tonight.

It has a 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor, and it's got loads of memory. So much music old emulated video games, and movies on here, and I still have 84.36 GB left.

The graphics card is an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

I don't know what else you're looking for, but I can find out. It was a Christmas 2009 present from my parents for college, so it's still fairly new (although not by Apple's standards...I do update it constantly though)

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 12:30 AM
mk so you're saying they've guaranteed those will be the minimum specs for the full version?


It has a 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor, and it's got loads of memory. So much music old emulated video games, and movies on here, and I still have 84.36 GB left.

The graphics card is an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

I don't know what else you're looking for, but I can find out. It was a Christmas 2009 present from my parents for college, so it's still fairly new (although not by Apple's standards...I do update it constantly though)

mainly just the CPU and GPU. Unfortunately the 9400m is way below a 7800 GT for performance

Kion
May 7, 2011, 12:34 AM
No it says minimum specs for the alpha version. Underneath it says *Specs likely to change for actual game.

In terms of the specs posted i've been wondering if they are the minimum or recommended specs. Looks like they're the minimum. During the alpha it looks like they're trying to get input from players, so it looks like they'll probably tweak the requirements based on that. So once the beta comes out we should have a pretty good idea of what specs the final game will require. My guess is that the min specs will likely go down, once they optimize it and stuff.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 12:39 AM
No it says minimum specs for the alpha version. Underneath it says *Specs likely to change for actual game.

Mk I have that in there already, but I'll make sure to highlight the fact that they are minimums and that the reqs will change.

I've actually been overshooting and assuming the min gpu for the release will be a 9800gt just to be safe

EDIT: Added a Macs section

joshboyd1209
May 7, 2011, 08:41 AM
Mk I have that in there already, but I'll make sure to highlight the fact that they are minimums and that the reqs will change.

I've actually been overshooting and assuming the min gpu for the release will be a 9800gt just to be safe

EDIT: Added a Macs section
I was just add a 25% or better list meaning list types of components and computers that are 25% percent better, because I don't think they will go to much higher than that the graphics are already fairly good if you make them much better you'll have to make the characters breath.

Ragrappy99
May 7, 2011, 09:21 AM
I've been thinking of getting a gaming PC to replace this crappy laptop.

I've found this (http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Range/Gladiator/Pulse+HDK+Gaming+PC+%28Sandy+Bridge+REV+B3%29+?pro ductId=43843&rqcType=q#rqc) computer, which I'm interested in.

But is it actually a good deal? I really have no idea. I'm not going to build one myself for various reasons. If someone could weigh in with their opinion on that computer, that'd be great.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 10:04 AM
I've been thinking of getting a gaming PC to replace this crappy laptop.

I've found this (http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Range/Gladiator/Pulse+HDK+Gaming+PC+%28Sandy+Bridge+REV+B3%29+?pro ductId=43843&rqcType=q#rqc) computer, which I'm interested in.

But is it actually a good deal? I really have no idea. I'm not going to build one myself for various reasons. If someone could weigh in with their opinion on that computer, that'd be great.
It's rather good, it's a pitty that it uses DDR3 1333MHz memory instead of 1600MHz (well, it's normal for a pre-built PC to use 1333 memory, I guess), and it also could have used a better power supply.
Also, a note, it comes with no operative system, gotta pay an extra £70 for Windows 7.
Another note is that is only the tower, it doesn't come with a monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers.

Malachite
May 7, 2011, 10:14 AM
Shouldn't really worry about the 1333 vs 1600. It's very unlikely that someone who isn't extremely adept with computes will notice any difference.

It's a pretty good deal, imo. But you could definitely find rigs that'l run PSO2 for a lot cheaper.

Ragrappy99
May 7, 2011, 10:43 AM
could have used a better power supply.
What would a better power supply do? What's bad about the current one?


Also, a note, it comes with no operative system, gotta pay an extra £70 for Windows 7.
Another note is that is only the tower, it doesn't come with a monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers.

Yeah, I noticed that. Guess I'll have to pay £70 extra for Windows 7, but at least I have a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers left over from the last desktop I had.


It's a pretty good deal, imo. But you could definitely find rigs that'l run PSO2 for a lot cheaper.
I won't just be buying for PSO2, I've also got a ton of games on Steam I've purchased during sales but I can't play!

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 10:59 AM
I've been thinking of getting a gaming PC to replace this crappy laptop.

I've found this (http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Range/Gladiator/Pulse+HDK+Gaming+PC+%28Sandy+Bridge+REV+B3%29+?pro ductId=43843&rqcType=q#rqc) computer, which I'm interested in.

But is it actually a good deal? I really have no idea. I'm not going to build one myself for various reasons. If someone could weigh in with their opinion on that computer, that'd be great.
If you know how to build a PC, or if you know someone that knows how to build a PC, here's my suggestion for each component:

Processor - Intel Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-360-IN)- £161.99
Motherboard - MSI P67A-GD53 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-170-MS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1906) - £109.99
Memories - GSkill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-057-GS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517) - £39.98
Graphics Card - HIS Radeon HD6870 ICEQ X Turbo (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-030-HS&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1866) - £173.99
Hard Drive - Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 7200rpm (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-082-SA) - £43.99
Power Supply - Corsair TX-650W V2 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-037-CS&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=) - £74.99 (in here, a Corsair CX-600W could also be a good option, and it's some £20 cheaper)
DVD Drive - Samsung SH-S223C (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-099-SA&groupid=701&catid=10&subcat=951) - £16.99
Case - Coolermaster HAF 912 Plus (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-221-CM&groupid=701&catid=7&subcat=29) - £56.99
Processor Cooler - Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-029-CM&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=1395)- £19.99
Total: £698.90
Same price, better memories, graphics card and power supply.

And now, the extras:
Monitor - Samsung P2370 23" 1920x1080 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-115-SA) - £139.99
Keyboard - Logitech K200 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-188-LG&groupid=702&catid=23&subcat=2) - £12.98
Mouse - Logitech MX18 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-060-LG) - £21.98
Speakers - Creative A60 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SP-131-CL) - £14.99
Operative System - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SW-127-MS&groupid=33&catid=1555&subcat=) - £79.99
Total: £968.83
If you want something cheaper, then the processor could be changed by a Core i3 2100, the graphics card by a Radeon HD5770, the power supply by a CX-600W, and the processor cooler could be removed to go for the stock one.

Canard de Bain
May 7, 2011, 11:02 AM
Who says you will even need to buy Windows? :P Run Linux with Cedega.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 11:09 AM
What would a better power supply do? What's bad about the current one?
Power supply is the heart of the PC, if a power supply is too weak, it won't be able to run the PC, or there's going to be stability issues.
In that PC you linked, that power supply should be enough to run it with no issues, but if someday you were to upgrade a component like the graphics card, that power supply would definitely limit your choices, since it's not good enough for better/more power hungry cards.

If you're not planning on any upgrade in the future, then it should be fine.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 11:50 AM
I was just add a 25% or better list meaning list types of components and computers that are 25% percent better, because I don't think they will go to much higher than that the graphics are already fairly good if you make them much better you'll have to make the characters breath.

25% better than what josh? do you realize no one can accurately make a list like that?


Power supply is the heart of the PC, if a power supply is too weak, it won't be able to run the PC, or there's going to be stability issues.
In that PC you linked, that power supply should be enough to run it with no issues, but if someday you were to upgrade a component like the graphics card, that power supply would definitely limit your choices, since it's not good enough for better/more power hungry cards.

If you're not planning on any upgrade in the future, then it should be fine.


You can do worse than cause stability issues. you can burn out the power supply or fry a component because of the unstable power. Power supplies also slowly lose their ability to provide power to a computer. so if your computer needs 490w and you buy a 500w PSU, in a year that PSi might not be up to the task. There are other things to consider as well such as quality of parts and efficiency. The point is power supplies are an important part of the computer and you should shouldn't skimp out on such an important component.

Also, I don't know about the cost of parts outside of the US but they're using store bought components to build that setup. you can likely get the parts for much less and build it yourself.

joshboyd1209
May 7, 2011, 12:14 PM
25% better than what josh? do you realize no one can accurately make a list like that?




You can do worse than cause stability issues. you can burn out the power supply or fry a component because of the unstable power. Power supplies also slowly lose their ability to provide power to a computer. so if your computer needs 490w and you buy a 500w PSU, in a year that PSi might not be up to the task. There are other things to consider as well such as quality of parts and efficiency. The point is power supplies are an important part of the computer and you should shouldn't skimp out on such an important component.

Also, I don't know about the cost of parts outside of the US but they're using store bought components to build that setup. you can likely get the parts for much less and build it yourself.
25% better than the required components for the Alpha.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 12:28 PM
A) The alpha specs are just too far away to even bother essentially lowballing the final minimum requirements. If you read the OP you'd know we're going to make a "just enough to play" build later on.
B) It doesn't work that way since different components are better at different things and lots of CPUs/GPUs can be at or around that level making it pointless to just list one or try to list them all.
C) We have a list of the cheapest currently available parts that can run the alpha
D) I've advised people that a passmark score 40%-50% higher than the alpha's reqs should be fine as well as the tools to find out themselves.

Ragrappy99
May 7, 2011, 12:44 PM
If you know how to build a PC, or if you know someone that knows how to build a PC, here's my suggestion for each component:


Also, I don't know about the cost of parts outside of the US but they're using store bought components to build that setup. you can likely get the parts for much less and build it yourself.

See, the thing about building a computer, it just seems so much easier to buy a prebuilt one. I don't have to worry about buying mismatched parts or putting it together wrong. I'd hate to spend £x on parts, put it together, only for it to not work with no explanation and then having to buy some new part. It's probably just complete inexperience with building computers on my part.

With a prebuilt, I can just order, have some professional company assemble it for me and check that it works. And if it goes wrong, the warranty will allow the problem to be solved quickly (normally). I'm ok with paying a little bit extra for that, but obviously I don't want to pay a crazy amount which is why I posted it here for a general opinion.

Thanks for the list of parts though, I'll keep it in mind.


The point is power supplies are an important part of the computer and you should shouldn't skimp out on such an important component.
Do you think the power supply here (http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Range/Gladiator/Pulse+HDK+Gaming+PC+%28Sandy+Bridge+REV+B3%29+?pro ductId=43843&rqcType=q#rqc) is a reason to find a different computer?

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 01:16 PM
Corsair makes really good PSUs, but I'm not as big a fan of their builder series. it should be fine for now, but it will limit options for expansion. Also, I'm not a huge fan of overclocking on a 500w PSU. Adding even .02 volts can up the drain on the PSU by 30w. I wouldn't put that PSU past lasting more than 2 years with that setup.

I also am not a huge fan of those self contained liquid cooling systems. they're not unreliable but if something goes wrong with the pump it can be hard to tell since the soft churning of a working one will easily be drowned out by the sound of a fan, meaning you can't hear if it stops.

As far as building a computer, if you look at the components we've listed, there are no mismatched parts. Everything is meant to go together exactly as it should and pretty much everything boils down to "match up the notches". I even link to a guide that walks you through step by step and there are also guides on youtube. If you don't feel comfortable I wont force the idea but I would suggest reading up on it and if it still seems like too much, then investigate the cost of having someone do it for you. it may still be cheaper than buying one from that place.

The plus side getting it from them is you know what you're getting at least. I'm just the cautious type and like either doing things myself or getting someone I can trust to help me.

I can almost promise you you'll be replacing that PSU before you get a new computer though.

Corey Blue
May 7, 2011, 01:59 PM
Corsair makes really good PSUs, but I'm not as big a fan of their builder series. it should be fine for now, but it will limit options for expansion. Also, I'm not a huge fan of overclocking on a 500w PSU. Adding even .02 volts can up the drain on the PSU by 30w. I wouldn't put that PSU past lasting more than 2 years with that setup.

I also am not a huge fan of those self contained liquid cooling systems. they're not unreliable but if something goes wrong with the pump it can be hard to tell since the soft churning of a working one will easily be drowned out by the sound of a fan, meaning you can't hear if it stops.

As far as building a computer, if you look at the components we've listed, there are no mismatched parts. Everything is meant to go together exactly as it should and pretty much everything boils down to "match up the notches". I even link to a guide that walks you through step by step and there are also guides on youtube. If you don't feel comfortable I wont force the idea but I would suggest reading up on it and if it still seems like too much, then investigate the cost of having someone do it for you. it may still be cheaper than buying one from that place.

The plus side getting it from them is you know what you're getting at least. I'm just the cautious type and like either doing things myself or getting someone I can trust to help me.

I can almost promise you you'll be replacing that PSU before you get a new computer though.
http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=193 is this any good? 1800 dollar's is my budget.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 02:41 PM
http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=193 is this any good? 1800 dollar's is my budget.
That system is quite overpriced, it's not worth $950.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 02:50 PM
I assume you dont want to build one yourself? Did you see the enthusiast build I list in the OP? parts on the configs I list (meaning my 3 configs) are 100% interchangeable. The only reason I list them the way I do is I pinch a penny here or there to fit into a certain budget. the $830 build I list is significantly better than the one they list at $950.

That place is overcharging for just about everything. They're valuing a HD 5870 at $500. there are cards better than it for 250.

What I would do if you don't want to build your own is see if there's a place where you live that will do the work. lots of places will build you a PC fore less than $150 if you provide the parts. The enthusiast build I list comes in at under 1250 and you can get a nice monitor, mouse, kb and speakers for under 300. that still puts you in at 1700 after having someone else do the work and you'd be much happier with it. If you do decide to do the work that gives you more money to put into it...like getting a faster CPU or something.

1800 is a lot of money to put into a computer. With that kind of money you can get something really nice. I would try to avoid websites like that as they really try to target people who don't know about computers so they don't know what they're actually getting.

EDIT: I just saw where they say "click here see why PC enthusiasts pick us". PC enthusiasts build their own machines. >_>

Kion
May 7, 2011, 03:17 PM
Some info on the llano chips here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion#List_of_Laptop_Llano_APUs

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 03:25 PM
I'll have to wait to see benchmarks, the HD 6000 series is literally just a 5000 series at 6700 and below. we'll have to see how it does once the testing comes out.

Kion
May 7, 2011, 03:43 PM
According to documents claimed to be from AMD the company says that the AMD A8-3550 APU will score P3335 in 3DMark Vantage Performance, which can be compared to P1007 by Intel's Sandy Bridge Core i5-2300 CPU and its Intel HD Graphics 2000 GPU.
AMD A8-3550 will according to sources sport four cores, 4MB cache and integrated graphics called Radeon HD 6550. The GPU will house 400 stream processors and operate at 594 MHz. The result that AMD mentions in its document can be compared to what the budget card Radeon HD 4670 accomplishes in the same test (around P3700).


And a complete chart: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011031901_First_Llano_A-series_CPUs_detailed.html

It looks like Llano will be announced at computex on june 1 and then ship on June 14th.

Ragrappy99
May 7, 2011, 03:49 PM
Corsair makes really good PSUs, but I'm not as big a fan of their builder series. it should be fine for now, but it will limit options for expansion. Also, I'm not a huge fan of overclocking on a 500w PSU. Adding even .02 volts can up the drain on the PSU by 30w. I wouldn't put that PSU past lasting more than 2 years with that setup.

I also am not a huge fan of those self contained liquid cooling systems. they're not unreliable but if something goes wrong with the pump it can be hard to tell since the soft churning of a working one will easily be drowned out by the sound of a fan, meaning you can't hear if it stops.

I can almost promise you you'll be replacing that PSU before you get a new computer though.

Hmm, right, I see... So what PSU would you want in a computer like that? 600w?
I think the site I linked to allows you to request different parts to be put in. Depending on how much more that would cost, it could be an option.

As for the liquid cooling system, the consequences of it failing? Just overheating and shutting down? I imagine there's a way to monitor it / check it's working from a program on computer, surely?

Corey Blue
May 7, 2011, 04:01 PM
I'll have to wait to see benchmarks, the HD 6000 series is literally just a 5000 series at 6700 and below. we'll have to see how it does once the testing comes out.

When this accident money come in,I'm going to message you because I need help,I need something that's going to last me for a long,long time,and I'll make 1500 my budget.I'll let you know what I'm going to do because I'm going into the service,if I go Air National Guard I'm getting a desktop,but if I go NAVY I'm getting a laptop.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 04:18 PM
I'll have to wait to see benchmarks, the HD 6000 series is literally just a 5000 series at 6700 and below. we'll have to see how it does once the testing comes out.
Not entirely true. While the HD6750 and HD6770 are indeed HD5700 cards with a different name, the other ones below, HD6450, HD6570 and HD6670 are new cores, the HD6450 is based on the Caicos core, the HD6570 and HD6670 are based on the Turks core.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 04:43 PM
Hmm, right, I see... So what PSU would you want in a computer like that? 600w?
I think the site I linked to allows you to request different parts to be put in. Depending on how much more that would cost, it could be an option.

As for the liquid cooling system, the consequences of it failing? Just overheating and shutting down? I imagine there's a way to monitor it / check it's working from a program on computer, surely?

600w should be plenty, I still would encourage you to see what it would cost to buy your parts and have someone build it though. if nothing else it could be much cheaper. As far as the liquid cooling, there are programs you can use to monitor your temperatures, and the computer will usually shut itself off if heat gets too high. however with no working cooling system, every shut-off will damage your components and every time you reach those heat levels, you shorten the life of your CPU. If the cooler goes out, you'd have to replace the whole cooler, and if you're not savvy with this stuff, you'll end up shipping it to them to have it replaced if it's under warranty, or you'd have to spend a fair amount to get something else to replace it.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but air cooling is cheaper and much less hassle. you can buy a new fan and put it on yourself as easily as you could say...put a stand on a new tv. it's up to you what you do, but in the very least, get a better PSU. They shouldn't charge you much more for that.


Anyway like I said Ezo, I know what you're saying, but we'll have to see. I just don't get excited over new tech til I see those numbers actually translate to real performance. If the new on-die gpus are still sub par to a $100 dedicated card, it really only is good as a HTPC solution.

Nitro Vordex
May 7, 2011, 04:47 PM
Thought I might put my two-cents in here. Niko, this might be a useful thing to put in your opening post. www.piriform.com/speccy This is a program to tell you what exactly is inside your computer, minus the power supply. It'd be good for those people who don't quite know what's inside their computer and want something a little more eye-pleasing.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 04:49 PM
Anyway like I said Ezo, I know what you're saying, but we'll have to see. I just don't get excited over new tech til I see those numbers actually translate to real performance. If the new on-die gpus are still sub par to a $100 dedicated card, it really only is good as a HTPC solution.
Yeah, they're definitely not gonna match a $100 dedicated card. My guess is that the best integrated GPU in Llano will match the Radeon HD4650/HD5550, or maybe the HD4670/HD5570 with some luck, which is not bad for an integrated GPU. :P

BTW, the ones I meant that are new cores are the dedicated HD6450/HD6570/HD6670 cards, not the integrated GPU in Llano.
The integrated GPU in Llano is still not know if it'll be based on the HD5600 "redwood" core or in the HD6600 "turks" core.

Split
May 7, 2011, 05:02 PM
mainly just the CPU and GPU. Unfortunately the 9400m is way below a 7800 GT for performanceUhhhh...how is a 9 series from 2008 worse than a 7 series from 2005? Just looked up the system reqs for PSO2 and it says 7800 GT or equivalent/better. It seems like this is better.

Ezodagrom
May 7, 2011, 05:09 PM
Uhhhh...how is a 9 series from 2008 worse than a 7 series from 2005? Just looked up the system reqs for PSO2 and it says 7800 GT or equivalent/better. I seems like this is better.
Just because a graphics card is newer doesn't mean it's better. Everytime ATI (now AMD) and Nvidia release new series of graphics cards, those series of cards go through all price ranges, from low-end to high-end. While the new high-end cards are better than the cards from the previous series, that doesn't the low-end cards will be better than all cards from those previous generations, the low-end cards will only be better than the low-end cards from the previous generation.

Example, the new Geforce GTX 550 Ti is better than the previous generation Geforce GTS 450, which was better than the GTS 250 before, but, the new GTX550 Ti is still worse than the older high-end GTX 285.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 05:10 PM
Uhhhh...how is a 9 series from 2008 worse than a 7 series from 2005? Just looked up the system reqs for PSO2 and it says 7800 GT or equivalent/better. It seems like this is better.

for two reasons. 9 series isn't leaps and bounds better than a 7 series. in addition it's a mobile series making it rank much lower than a desktop 9 series which is what the comparison would be. go look up a 9400m vs a 9400 gt it's not even in the same ballpark.

but again. the numbers go like this: YXXX

Y is the series number

XXX is the model.

or in the case of newer nvidia cards it goes YXX

Where Y is the series and XX is the model. The model is basically just giving you an idea of price point. I won't bother breaking it down, but as of right now the Y90 models for nvidia are dual GPU while the Y990 is the dual GPU for AMD.

it's not an actual rating system. Because of that the numbers can be deceptive but with that in mind, understand that a GTX 480 is better than a GTX 560. and an HD 6750 is not better than a HD 5850.

And again. yours is a mobile, which means it's significantly less powerful than a desktop model.

Go look up the actual numbers yourself.

EDIT: and Ezo more or less beat me to it.

EDIT 2: No offense, Split: but if you're asking someone you deem more knowledgeable and then respond like you think they're stupid, why did you bother asking us in the first place? You didn't know how your GPU stacked up even though I told you how to find out what you had and how to find out if it could do the job. But rather than find out for yourself, you asked me and I was nice enough to find out for you. I understand that the numbers can be confusing but if you read my post about laptops, you'd know that a 9400m is not a 9400gt. Maybe you just aren't choosing your words correctly, but you seem pretty rude and condescending for someone who had to ask a PC user how to use his Mac's system profiler and wanted information.

Malachite
May 7, 2011, 05:10 PM
Probably because of the "m" after it, lol.

ffff I got ninja-posted by two way more information posts.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 05:16 PM
Yeah, they're definitely not gonna match a $100 dedicated card. My guess is that the best integrated GPU in Llano will match the Radeon HD4650/HD5550, or maybe the HD4670/HD5570 with some luck, which is not bad for an integrated GPU. :P

BTW, the ones I meant that are new cores are the dedicated HD6450/HD6570/HD6670 cards, not the integrated GPU in Llano.
The integrated GPU in Llano is still not know if it'll be based on the HD5600 "redwood" core or in the HD6600 "turks" core.

Ah, ok. yeah I was looking at the wiki kyon linked to and i wasn't sure if it was a comparison or what. I was busy looking at the new ivy bridge architecture yesterday and am not feeling like reading up on AMDs stuff right now XD. It's interesting to see how hard they're pushing to get to 22nm though.


Probably because of the "m" after it, lol.

ffff I got ninja-posted by two way more information posts.

Better that more than one person say it, lest people start to think I can't count.

Here's the basic breakdown for those of you tuning in:

Laptops have shitty GPUs

Macs have shitty GPUs

Mac laptops? REALLY SHITTY GPUS.

Even the iMac uses a laptop GPU. Wtf?

At least the iMac uses a high end mobility GPU as do the Macbook pros that cost over 2k. everything else uses a 320M or worse =/

I don't know how they expect PC users to take them seriously when they charge you an extra $500-1000 for a shiny case and an OS that's no longer proprietary.

Ragrappy99
May 7, 2011, 06:40 PM
600w should be plenty, I still would encourage you to see what it would cost to buy your parts and have someone build it though. if nothing else it could be much cheaper. As far as the liquid cooling, there are programs you can use to monitor your temperatures, and the computer will usually shut itself off if heat gets too high. however with no working cooling system, every shut-off will damage your components and every time you reach those heat levels, you shorten the life of your CPU. If the cooler goes out, you'd have to replace the whole cooler, and if you're not savvy with this stuff, you'll end up shipping it to them to have it replaced if it's under warranty, or you'd have to spend a fair amount to get something else to replace it.

I checked the prices of all the components and added them all up. I used the lowest prices I could find, and one component couldn't be found so I used a similar one.

Either way, it came to £680 at lowest possible price, including OS. It'd be a bit more than that though as I'd want to buy from well known sellers, as you obviously get a better service when buying from them. Also add on the cost to get someone to build it... The prebuilt, with OS and delivery cost, comes to £780.

So from this perspective, it seems that for me the prebuilt one is a better option. When a more accurate cost for the separate parts and building fee is taken into account, the saving isn't massive. I'm ok with paying a bit extra to get it from a company that'll build it, test it, fix it if something goes wrong (until the warranty runs out anyway)

In regards to the power supply.. well, I've had conflicting advice on the matter and I'm going to stick with the one it comes with.

Thanks for your help chaps.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 06:56 PM
The person who advised you probably didn't take the overclock into account. I ran the config through several PSU calculators and they all said that the PSU would be enough to start, but after a year or so of constant use the capacitors would be aged to the point that it would no longer be reliable. You're free to do what you want, but if the conflicting input came from someone with any kind of knowledge, they'd be able to build it for you and save you that extra money, right?

Just don't be too shocked when it happens. Unless something is defective, the PSU will be the first thing to go.

Split
May 7, 2011, 07:26 PM
EDIT 2: No offense, Split: but if you're asking someone you deem more knowledgeable and then respond like you think they're stupid, why did you bother asking us in the first place? You didn't know how your GPU stacked up even though I told you how to find out what you had and how to find out if it could do the job. But rather than find out for yourself, you asked me and I was nice enough to find out for you. I understand that the numbers can be confusing but if you read my post about laptops, you'd know that a 9400m is not a 9400gt. Maybe you just aren't choosing your words correctly, but you seem pretty rude and condescending for someone who had to ask a PC user how to use his Mac's system profiler and wanted information.Whoa, okay. First of all: I didn't have to ask you how to use my system profiler, although except for this edit you've been really helpful in other ways. Here was my original post:


So...what do you guys think are the chances of me being able to run this game on my Macbook? :D

Although I think it's going to be able to run Diablo 3...At no point in there do I have to ask you how to run my system profiler, which is very easy to do. Also, note the smiley face. The tone of this post is in jest, because I'm well aware that Apple computers in general, much less Macbooks, don't make good gaming computers.

Admittedly I jumped into this thread late, without realizing that you posted the system requirements (haven't really had the time or energy to read all your long posts, informational as they are, until now, it's been my college finals/move-out week and hectic as all get-out) until after you told me that my Mac's graphics card doesn't cut it, by which time I had already looked them up myself, and during that investigation I also looked up the graphics cards themselves, glanced at when they were made, and figured, "Oh, he said this card that was made in 2005 is better than this one made three years later. With the rate at which gaming technology has been evolving as of late, especially on the PC front, that doesn't make sense to me."

I don't think it's too difficult to understand my skepticism, and I really don't see what was so rude and condescending about my expression of it. Sorry that it came across that way to you, I know it isn't exactly easy to infer a person's tone of voice from written/typed words.

I'm happy to concede that I don't know too much about PC gaming. Consoles are my thing because they're much more affordable, and video games in general are starting to become less a part of my life while I'm away from home. Once again, you've been very helpful and you obviously know wayyyy more about this than I do -- if you had left the excellent explanation that you gave and given me a chance to respond, I would've thanked you, probably expressed my disappointment (since Macbook graphics cards are generally built in, if I'm not mistaken), and moved on. Just don't be so quick to jump down my throat. Now I'm gonna go drink myself into a self-piteous stupor :wacko:

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 08:01 PM
Whoa, okay. First of all: I didn't have to ask you how to use my system profiler, although except for this edit you've been really helpful in other ways. Here was my original post:

At no point in there do I have to ask you how to run my system profiler, which is very easy to do. Also, note the smiley face. The tone of this post is in jest, because I'm well aware that Apple computers in general, much less Macbooks, don't make good gaming computers.

Admittedly I jumped into this thread late, without realizing that you posted the system requirements (haven't really had the time or energy to read all your long posts, informational as they are, until now, it's been my college finals/move-out week and hectic as all get-out) until after you told me that my Mac's graphics card doesn't cut it, by which time I had already looked them up myself, and during that investigation I also looked up the graphics cards themselves, glanced at when they were made, and figured, "Oh, he said this card that was made in 2005 is better than this one made three years later. With the rate at which gaming technology has been evolving as of late, especially on the PC front, that doesn't make sense to me."

I don't think it's too difficult to understand my skepticism, and I really don't see what was so rude and condescending about my expression of it. Sorry that it came across that way to you, I know it isn't exactly easy to infer a person's tone of voice from written/typed words.

I'm happy to concede that I don't know too much about PC gaming. Consoles are my thing because they're much more affordable, and video games in general are starting to become less a part of my life while I'm away from home. Once again, you've been very helpful and you obviously know wayyyy more about this than I do -- if you had left the excellent explanation that you gave and given me a chance to respond, I would've thanked you, probably expressed my disappointment (since Macbook graphics cards are generally built in, if I'm not mistaken), and moved on. Just don't be so quick to jump down my throat. Now I'm gonna go drink myself into a self-piteous stupor :wacko:


Most laptops are designed in such a way that you can't replace the GPU. in fact in many cases if the GPU goes bad you have to replace the whole motherboard. So integrated or not, you couldn't upgrade it, if that's what you're getting at. Its the main reason that I dont suggest laptops for gaming.

Anyway it was the "uhhhhhhhhhh" that made it seem like you might be implying that I didn't know what I was talking about. I used to be a Mac user myself, but as a gamer and such it just stopped making sense. I don't hate Apple, but I long since realized that they do a much better job of looking pretty than anything else unless there's specific software you need. They trade on a name and the fanaticism of their userbase to pull people over, but they still don't try to be competitive in the actual market. The fact that they value a HD 5850 at $450 just shows how much they're trading on their name and not on the value of the product.

I'm more than happy to explain something to you if you're skeptical, it's when skepticism is expressed in a way that sounds like I might be talking out of my ass that I'm going to take issue with a person.

In any case I can understand people not want to read through a small book to get their answers, but I used spoiler boxes so people only had to look at things that pertained to them. I get a lot of my information from reading and from personal experience and I've done my best to condense things in a way where it's still accessible.

Basically GPUs are kinda like car engines. A sports car from the 60s is still gonna be faster than a 2011 mini-van. You have to know what class of engine you have as well as the year to be able to accurately gauge performance.

Bottom line is if I don't know something I won't claim to know it and if someone says something that makes me think I might be mistaken I look it up. If I tell someone something absolutely wont work or isn't up to the task, I'm not saying it to be dramatic, I'm saying it so there is no confusion about what I'm saying.

I appreciate you addressing me directly about it though. I wasn't trying to jump down your throat as much as I was trying to make sure I wasn't getting trolled. I've gotten some really weird posts in here that sound like people read half an article in 2006 and think they're hot shit.

RemiusTA
May 7, 2011, 09:22 PM
Just get a new graphics card, end of story, god. As long as your processor is over 2 Ghz you shouldn't need much else to play this game on normal settings.


All this other shit is just extra, unless you're using a computer from 2005 or something, in which case you're overdue for an upgrade anyway. Almost anything you buy that's meant for something more than word processing should run this game. They already mentioned that the game is more focused on accessibility than graphics, so all this shit about dual GPUs and CPU overclocking is, to me anyway, somewhat irrelevant.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 09:37 PM
Just get a new graphics card, end of story, god. As long as your processor is over 2 Ghz you shouldn't need much else to play this game on normal settings.


All this other shit is just extra, unless you're using a computer from 2005 or something, in which case you're overdue for an upgrade anyway. Almost anything you buy that's meant for something more than word processing should run this game. They already mentioned that the game is more focused on accessibility than graphics, so all this shit about dual GPUs and CPU overclocking is, to me anyway, somewhat irrelevant.


thats pretty much what has been said. most of the conversation has been "will my laptop work" "what should I get?" but i guess you're too good to read anything now, right Remius?

RemiusTA
May 7, 2011, 09:54 PM
Too good? Ha ha, no, im just wondering why people are arguing over something that really doesn't even matter that much. I think this thread is awesome n stuff, but it's not like we're trying to build a Crysis rig or anything. I do think the "build a nuke" computer thread is quite enlightening, though.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 10:24 PM
well yeah I just list some options for gaming rigs. and a video card and PSU for people who can just upgrade.

I don't have a bare minimum rig posted yet cause it'd be pretty dumb to have someone go out and buy the parts to run a game when the final specs are unknown. so rather than do that I post some different ideas for builds that are guaranteed to run the game and I'll do something cheap to run the game later when we have all the facts. it just seems really stupid to try to tell someone that if they can play the alpha, they can play the game upon release.

The arguments have been from people who think the mobile GPU is as good as a desktop GPU which isn't as good as a 7800gt anyway and from people who have no idea how to build a computer or how important it is to get a good PSU and are willing to spend way too much money on something that isn't that good.

The $2500 build I did was cause someone...I think Kimil; asked what it would cost to build a balls-out rig. so I posted that one. honestly I wanted to wait til we got the final specs before I posted this thread to begin with, but I started to see a few threads spring up and I wanted to post something that I could have on the front page that I could edit so people would see everything at the top so people didn't start asking the same question of if their macbook could run the game five hundred times.

Then people like josh showed up telling people they needed soldering irons and bluray drives and that windows only supported 4GB of ram and I nearly lost my shit.

Kion
May 7, 2011, 11:43 PM
I'm looking into integrated solutions for people who don't want to mess with graphics cards, and psu's (mostly myself).

As far as desktops go:
It looks like the llano A-8 gets about the same 3Dmark vantage score as the i7 2600K. The A6 looks to be about the same as the i5 2500k and the A4 is probably going to trail behind the i3 2105. So it looks like as far as benchmarks go Sandy Bridge and Llano are tied. But llano has direct X 11 and more processing power for graphics and a lower price, so the A8 might be a good cheap solution for a pre-built machine for new pc players (depending on the final specs).

For notebooks:
Llano is also coming out in mobile form, but that will probably be released at coputex. I'm still really interested in ivy bridge. It turns out intel and nVidia made a deal, so that Intel could use nVidia's integrated graphics patents. nVidia in turn, got some x86 patents and are using them to make the tegra processor. It looks like intel is increasing the number of EU's in the internal graphics from 12 to 16 or 24. So As far as notebooks go, there could be some thin and light ones that will run PSO2 on low settings at decent frame rates.

Niloklives
May 7, 2011, 11:48 PM
Are you saying you think a 2600k would run PSO2 on integrated graphics?

Those intel solutions would be out til next year those sadly. iirc the intel HD 3000 or w/e was around the level of a 5450. That isn't going to cut it. not sure the CPU alone wouldn't get completely bogged down even if it IS a 2600k. maybe I'm overthinking things.

Ezodagrom
May 8, 2011, 12:54 AM
I'm looking into integrated solutions for people who don't want to mess with graphics cards, and psu's (mostly myself).

As far as desktops go:
It looks like the llano A-8 gets about the same 3Dmark vantage score as the i7 2600K. The A6 looks to be about the same as the i5 2500k and the A4 is probably going to trail behind the i3 2105. So it looks like as far as benchmarks go Sandy Bridge and Llano are tied. But llano has direct X 11 and more processing power for graphics and a lower price, so the A8 might be a good cheap solution for a pre-built machine for new pc players (depending on the final specs).
Checking the chart you posted the other time, the Core i7 2600K 3DMark score is only around less than 5% higher than the A4 3DMark score, the A6 3DMark score is around 20% or so higher than the i7, and the A8 score is around 40% higher or so.
So no, it's not the A8 that has about the same 3DMark score as the i7 2600K, but it's the A4 that has a nearly similar score.

[spoiler-box]http://www.techpowerup.com/img/11-05-04/20a.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Note that in that chart the 2 colours in the bars are for different benchmarks, with green/darker blue being PCMark Vantage, and red/lighter blue being 3DMark Vantage.
PCMark and 3DMark are 2 different benchmarks.

Another thing, the HD3000 is considerably weaker than the 7800GT, I really doubt it'll be able to run PSO2.

Niloklives
May 8, 2011, 01:00 AM
I thought so. X_x Thanks Ezo, I thought I was going crazy.

Ezodagrom
May 8, 2011, 01:25 AM
I thought so. X_x Thanks Ezo, I thought I was going crazy.
Doing a quick check, looks like the HD3000 is able to run Battlefield Bad Company 2 (which has similar minimum requirements to PSO2 alpha) with barely playable framerates, which is really surprising:
[spoiler-box]http://img.inpai.com.cn/article/2010/12/15/5e76c5bb-f49a-471b-826f-578a0d756288.png[/spoiler-box]

But I still wouldn't recommend it. ^^;

chaoelite
May 8, 2011, 01:37 AM
All this other shit is just extra, unless you're using a computer from 2005 or something

I resent that my i built my desktop in 2004 and i can play games like dragon age at almost full graphic support. Other then new graphics card and ram added in 2005 its still original hardware <.<

Niloklives
May 8, 2011, 01:48 AM
Well dragon age is a 2009 game and is known for not being very taxing. Even still that's impressive.

@Ezo

Between 30fps not being anything I'd call playable (I've known people to get sick from the slight judders) and the fact that it will require better than a 7800 for sure by the time we get the final release, I'd simply advise against it.

Kion
May 8, 2011, 03:10 AM
[spoiler-box]http://www.techpowerup.com/img/11-05-04/20a.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Note that in that chart the 2 colours in the bars are for different benchmarks, with green/darker blue being PCMark Vantage, and red/lighter blue being 3DMark Vantage.
PCMark and 3DMark are 2 different benchmarks.

Another thing, the HD3000 is considerably weaker than the 7800GT, I really doubt it'll be able to run PSO2.

The problem is that chart doesn't have any actual numbers on it. I looked around and
According to documents claimed to be from AMD the company says that the AMD A8-3550 APU will score P3335 in 3DMark Vantage Performance

I went to 3dmark.com and looked up the i7 2600k w/intel Hd 3000 and it had a similar benchmark of around 3200 range. So I'm pretty sure that the graphics benchmark isn't independent of the cpu one; they just over lapped it. I think AMD is trying to show that llano gets a much better graphic performance to cpu clock ratio than Sandy Bridge.

That other graph that you showed had battlefield 2 getting 30 frames per second (playable) with the i7 HD 3000, that could be what we see out of the A8. Not to mention that the final specs will probably drop a little compared to the alpha.

Ryoten
May 8, 2011, 03:54 AM
I was thinking about getting an alienware laptop but from what I was reading, its sounds like crap. So, any suggestions on what laptop I should get?

Niloklives
May 8, 2011, 04:03 AM
is there a reason you feel you need a laptop over a desktop? Alienware or not, high performance laptops are expensive. not only that but if you did end up finding out your laptop couldn't play a game down the road, you'd have to get a whole new laptop, where as a desktop you could just get a new video card in most cases.

Ryoten
May 8, 2011, 04:09 AM
is there a reason you feel you need a laptop over a desktop? Alienware or not, high performance laptops are expensive. not only that but if you did end up finding out your laptop couldn't play a game down the road, you'd have to get a whole new laptop, where as a desktop you could just get a new video card in most cases.

Reason why because I'm always on the go. Plus I need something that I can use for artwork & animation when I'm away from home. So pretty much, I'm looking for something that can kill two birds with one brick...err stone yeah that.

Niloklives
May 8, 2011, 04:56 AM
I link to an asus laptop that's up to the task in the first page. if you're looking for more than that, there's an MSI (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152239) with 2 500GB HDDs and 8GB RAM. Either will play PSO2 for sure, use a new i7 CPU and should be fine for CS5. Not sure what else you're using for software. Beyond that, there are some websites where you can configure your own laptop. For some reason it's really hard to find a laptop with a higher end mobility GPU.

This site here (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html) ranks all the current GPUs. The closer to the top, the better it is. One of these days I may see about finding a good site for configuring laptops and tell you guys what to get. right now though since I'm not really familiar with those sites, I couldn't tell you where to go in good faith. Mobile GPUs end up costing ridiculous amounts of money though, so really I'd stick with the Asus or MSI unless you have money to burn.

Ryoten
May 8, 2011, 09:53 AM
I link to an asus laptop that's up to the task in the first page. if you're looking for more than that, there's an MSI (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152239) with 2 500GB HDDs and 8GB RAM. Either will play PSO2 for sure, use a new i7 CPU and should be fine for CS5. Not sure what else you're using for software. Beyond that, there are some websites where you can configure your own laptop. For some reason it's really hard to find a laptop with a higher end mobility GPU.

This site here (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html) ranks all the current GPUs. The closer to the top, the better it is. One of these days I may see about finding a good site for configuring laptops and tell you guys what to get. right now though since I'm not really familiar with those sites, I couldn't tell you where to go in good faith. Mobile GPUs end up costing ridiculous amounts of money though, so really I'd stick with the Asus or MSI unless you have money to burn.

Thanks for the info Nilo. I'll look into the Asus laptop asap.

Ezodagrom
May 8, 2011, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the info Nilo. I'll look into the Asus laptop asap.
The Asus laptop is this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230027

It's a really nice laptop, its GPU, the Geforce GTX460M should match the older desktop Geforce 9800GTX+ in performance, plus it supports the CUDA technology.
From what I heard, some artwork and animation related software takes advantage of the CUDA technology to boost performance (not 100% sure though).

Niloklives
May 8, 2011, 11:27 PM
Ok. I cleaned things up a bit, added some clarification, moved things around and added a change log.

Hope this makes things more accessible.

vagabondkitten
May 9, 2011, 08:27 AM
I really was planning on buying a new laptop solely to play this game, however after seeing that first trailer I'm not so sure anymore. Granted, we still have very little real information on this game, so I'm not going to write it off completely, but so far it looks so far away from everything I like about Phantasy Star Online that I really don't think I'll play this. The big deciding factor will be force gameplay, as that is my favorite class and always will be. I really hope I'm proved wrong, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Am I the only one who is skeptical about this game now?

Niloklives
May 9, 2011, 08:49 AM
Please keep the discussion in this thread computer related. there are plenty of threads to vent frustration at the direction the game has taken. This is about making sure you have a computer that can run the game.

Ezodagrom
May 12, 2011, 04:33 PM
Article comparing the current budget graphics cards available on the market, the graphics cards below $150. In the comparison charts, it also includes Intel's Sandy Bridge best integrated graphics, the HD3000 (the integrated GPU in the K series desktop Sandy Bridge processors, the i5 2500K or i7 2600K).
http://www.techspot.com/review/392-budget-gpu-comparison/

Might as well put here one of the charts, comparing Crysis 2 with high settings at the resolution 1280x800:

http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/392/bench/Crysis2_01.png

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 12:07 AM
Interesting...

Anyway I changed the name of the thread so people know to look here to ask questions about their current computers and not just about getting a new one.

No_Cigar
May 14, 2011, 11:08 AM
I just wanted to say that you probably don't "need" to get a new graphics card to play this. I play starcraft 2 on my pc, and I was worried because my graphics card was below recommended. The recommended is a geforce 6600 or something like that and mine is a geforce 220. My PC is powerful, but doesn't have a gaming graphics card.

Starcraft 2 runs fine on medium settings, and it has the same minimum requirement iirc as pso2. So if you're tight on money, and don't care about the "best" graphics then you might not need new graphics card.

Malachite
May 14, 2011, 11:55 AM
Well, I can guarantee you that Starcraft 2 is optimized a loooot better than PSO2 will be.

I mean, it'd be sweet if it was optimized to perfection... but that's just not how Sega does things.

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 12:37 PM
I just wanted to say that you probably don't "need" to get a new graphics card to play this. I play starcraft 2 on my pc, and I was worried because my graphics card was below recommended. The recommended is a geforce 6600 or something like that and mine is a geforce 220. My PC is powerful, but doesn't have a gaming graphics card.

Starcraft 2 runs fine on medium settings, and it has the same minimum requirement iirc as pso2. So if you're tight on money, and don't care about the "best" graphics then you might not need new graphics card.

a GTS 220 is better than a 6600 GT. a 6600 doesn't even rank on page one of the GPU list. please read my section about GPUs and the numbering system before making outlandish claims.

joshboyd1209
May 14, 2011, 01:14 PM
So if you're building a computer what are the basic parts you need just for basic use(in other words which parts do I need to make it just barely usable ). I'm going to try and build a computer using top notch parts, but it's going to take me a few years due to my budget so I would like to know what the required components are. I know I need a CPU(that's the same as a motherboard right? ) some RAM(do you have to have casing? ) and a fan. Right now I'm just looking for the basic required components so I can start using it and then keep adding the components required for gaming as I get them.

EDIT: and where can I find info on my GPU while running XP 32 bit service pack 3?

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 01:26 PM
go look at the first page. I have all that info in the opening post.

And no a motherboard is not the same as the CPU. The CPU is to the brain as the motherboard is to the central nervous system.

You know what?...here

This is everything you need to buy minus a keyboard mouse and monitor. read the OP as it has way more info about this stuff.

CPU - Processor
Motherboard - What everything plugs into
RAM - Memory
HDD - What you store information on
Optical drive - Reads CDs and such
GPU - processes graphics and outputs to a monitor or tv. larger monitors and more demanding games require a better GPU
Case - everything goes inside this and it provides cooling and ventilation for components
Power supply - gives power to the entire computer. the more powerful the system, the more powerful the power supply has to be to mee the demand.
OS - Operating system that allows you to interface with everything in the computer

joshboyd1209
May 14, 2011, 01:31 PM
Well if I can get four USB ports I can get away without the CD/DVD drive for a while, but that list looks like everything you need to play games as well. Guess it's going to be years before I get everything all hooked up(years before I can even start possibly ).

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 01:33 PM
technically you need a DVD rom drive to install your OS. there are exceptions but you need to know what you're doing and a DVD burner costs less than 20 dollars. that's nothing compared to the rest of the system.

joshboyd1209
May 14, 2011, 01:35 PM
technically you need a DVD rom drive to install your OS. there are exceptions but you need to know what you're doing and a DVD burner costs less than 20 dollars. that's nothing compared to the rest of the system.
Actually I already have a drive so no I don't need one immediately(the downside is I have to share it with my sisters and it's USB ).

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 01:38 PM
you also will need a mother board that will support USB as a bootable device. most will do this now, but not all, so you need to make sure. honestly if you're sweating 20 dollars you shouldn't be doing this though.

joshboyd1209
May 14, 2011, 02:05 PM
you also will need a mother board that will support USB as a bootable device. most will do this now, but not all, so you need to make sure. honestly if you're sweating 20 dollars you shouldn't be doing this though.
I'm not sweating $20 I'm just saying I can put that off till I'm done with everything else. Also I think I might have a computer that is available to me that I can just completely upgrade from square one. It's as old as the dinosaurs though so I'm sure my mother won't mind me upgrading if I can find instructions and everything else I need(it's a DELL Dimension L1000R. It's probably the last one not in the dump too ).

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 02:09 PM
it doesn't work that way. new CPUs don't fit in old motherboard sockets and dont use the smae ram as what's out today. new GPUs wont work, you'd need a new power supply and the motherboard likely wont fit the case since storebought PCs have proprietary case designs. you're not getting anything by using an old system like that. it's also a very stupid idea to build a new PC one piece at a time.

joshboyd1209
May 14, 2011, 02:10 PM
it doesn't work that way. new CPUs don't fit in old motherboard sockets and dont use the smae ram as what's out today. new GPUs wont work, you'd need a new power supply and the motherboard likely wont fit the case since storebought PCs have proprietary case designs. you're not getting anything by using an old system like that. it's also a very stupid idea to build a new PC one piece at a time.
So you're saying I can't gut the casing on this thing and put in the new parts. Well that's a shame.

Keilyn
May 14, 2011, 06:04 PM
I run under two computers.

1) i7 2600K - 480 GTX SLI and 8GB RAM.
2) 1090T - 6950 Crossfire and 8GB RAM.
note: 6950s Flashed to 6970s and OCed by 15%.


I have them to test game mods to make sure it runs smoothly on Intel, Nvidia and AMD/ATI.

My problem is not the hardware requirement for PSO-2, but the optimization.

I am hoping 1920x1080 is supported and hardware scaling is good. Half the time I played Phantasy Star Universe I felt I was running on 50% Software Rendering...and I hated having to run my own N-protect server in my own Local Area Network just to be able to get a slightly higher framerate due to its limiting factor in the game.


Finally, I am hoping the Servers are actually good....and not like what happened when PSU started as well as Events that so many people were logged in simultaneously that people were being booted left and right.

Despite the things that happened to me in PSU-Japan in the past, I have some friends there but I have to admit their networking was so much better to the point I asked myself "What kind of cheap servers are americans using" considering my own MMORPG server had more bandwith and operated more smoothly than Sega of America's own servers...So it made me scratch my head.

Niloklives
May 14, 2011, 06:17 PM
ok...

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 10:22 AM
How well do you think mine will rin it? -

Win 7 64-bit
AMD Athlon II x2 250 - 3.00Ghz
4GB Ram
ATI Radeon HD 5450 - 512mb

Thanks

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 10:49 AM
You'll need a better GPU.

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 10:52 AM
That sucks. Really hope it comes to 360 or PS3. Would hate to have to spend $200 and a new graphics card and still no doubt no be able to run it at full specs.

Worse thing with PC gaming for me is that I'm anal about getting the best performance, so I mess with the settings all the time trying to get the best balance with graphics and frame rate.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 10:57 AM
What? No, you wouldn't need to spend nearly $200.

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 11:01 AM
Well according to this -

http://www.techspot.com/review/392-budget-gpu-comparison/page8.html

If I'm going to spend $100, might as well spend the $175 for the Radeon HD 6850. I wouldn't want to blow $100 on a card and then it not run well enough for me. So I'd be kinda forced to spend $175.

Sure not $200, but not far off.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 11:09 AM
Don't forget that you'd probably also need a new PSU, assuming you are still using whichever one came with the computer.

But yeah, I was talking about meeting the requirements. If you think it's necessary to buy a top of the line card, that's your prerogative.

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 11:52 AM
You think the PSU that came with my PC would be too weak for a new card?

jayster
May 17, 2011, 12:47 PM
Think I'll be able to max it out on 1920x1080?

GTX 470
4GB DDR3 1600
Phenom II x4 3.2GHz

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 01:22 PM
You think the PSU that came with my PC would be too weak for a new card?

most PSUs that come with a system are designed only to run what comes with the computer - typically 250-300w. A high end video card can drain between 180-250 watts by itself and higher still if you decide to overclock it. get a new PSU.

@Jayster. if it doesn't I'd be very surprised

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 01:23 PM
Great so I'm looking at spending about the same as I would to buy a PS3 or 360 just to upgrade my PC for one game. DOH!

Please come to consoles!

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 01:28 PM
you can get a good 500w psu for 50 dollars. you dont have to do any of this now though. the game isn't coming out for another 6 months or so.

also please dont start on the console thing, I don't want this thread getting derailed into the same fight that been had a hundred times over in these forums.

parabolee
May 17, 2011, 01:32 PM
I know, I won't be buying any graphics card until the last minute to get the best deal.

And I'm not starting anything, just stating my wish not to have to deal with this upgrade in order to play. Have no interest in a debate over console vs pc. Don't care what I play it on, just want it to be a painless (and expense free) as possible.

Thanks

r00tabaga
May 17, 2011, 01:32 PM
Great so I'm looking at spending about the same as I would to buy a PS3 or 360 just to upgrade my PC for one game. DOH!

Please come to consoles!

Welcome to my world. It will be more for me b/c I need a laptop.

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
I know, I won't be buying any graphics card until the last minute to get the best deal.

And I'm not starting anything, just stating my wish not to have to deal with this upgrade in order to play. Have no interest in a debate over console vs pc. Don't care what I play it on, just want it to be a painless (and expense free) as possible.

Thanks

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm saying it will spark something

Azure Knight
May 17, 2011, 03:17 PM
A lot of talk about graphics cards and power supply units here. Bear in mind that this game isn't going to be the most taxing in the world so you don't need a state of the art system.

As for PSU's I've only got a 250 Watt PSU in my slimline PC and I've been able to put in a Radion HD 5570 without any issues (it's a decent midrange card that is well above the Alpha spec and pretty reasonably priced as well).

If you've only got a 250 Watt PSU and don't (or are unable to upgrade that) you can install this card in your PC no problem.

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 03:53 PM
That also depends on your cpu. some CPUs drain more power. for example you may have one that drains an average of 65 watts like a wolfdale core2duo while someone else might have one that drains over 125 like a Phenom II x4 or i7 950. You have to know what cpu you have as well. also bare in mind that the 5570 is barely over a 7800gt and may not cut it once the final revision is out.

Azure Knight
May 17, 2011, 05:01 PM
That also depends on your cpu. some CPUs drain more power. for example you may have one that drains an average of 65 watts like a wolfdale core2duo while someone else might have one that drains over 125 like a Phenom II x4 or i7 950. You have to know what cpu you have as well. also bare in mind that the 5570 is barely over a 7800gt and may not cut it once the final revision is out.

You've got a good point about the processor. I've got a dual core 2.66Ghz which is more than enough for something like this and don't have any problems with that, the card and a 250 watt supply. Not sure I agree about your statement with respect to the 5570 being barely over a 7800gt though:

- 3GD marks (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html)

7800gt = 562
5570 = 762

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 05:09 PM
Yeah that's barely over. Remember that these are the minimum requirements to run the alpha. it's already been stated the demands will go up for the final release and 200 points is basically nothing in the long run. My point is that while a 5570 will run the alpha, it may require a 9800gt for the release of the game which by your standards is markedly higher than a 5570. if you read my initial post you'd know I reference that very list you link to so I know the numbers. My point is you're undershooting and telling people to get something that close to the minimum for an alpha is setting them up to fail.

You also have to bare in mind that minimums don't allow you to play on larger screens or to have the game look as it was intended. Having to turn your settings all the way down may result in the game not looking as it does in videos which people may not be happy with, so it's not always a good idea to barely skate by.

Ultimately, you're right that the 5570 is better than a 7800gt, but I never said the 5570 was not as good as the 7800gt, i said I have my doubts that it will run the final version of the game.

Azure Knight
May 17, 2011, 05:18 PM
Yeah that's barely over. Remember that these are the minimum requirements to run the alpha. it's already been stated the demands will go up for the final release and 200 points is basically nothing in the long run. My point is that while a 5570 will run the alpha, it may require a 9800gt for the release of the game which by your standards is markedly higher than a 5570. if you read my initial post you'd know I reference that very list you link to so I know the numbers. My point is you're undershooting and telling people to get something that close to the minimum for an alpha is setting them up to fail.

You also have to bare in mind that minimums don't allow you to play on larger screens or to have the game look as it was intended. Having to turn your settings all the way down may result in the game not looking as it does in videos which people may not be happy with, so it's not always a good idea to barely skate by.

Ultimately, you're right that the 5570 is better than a 7800gt, but I never said the 5570 was not as good as the 7800gt, i said I have my doubts that it will run the final version of the game.

Time will tell I guess :)

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 05:28 PM
Yeah, a 5570 is barely better than a 7800 GT. If the requirements don't change, don't plan on playing on anything much better than bare minimum settings.



Anyway, Nilok, I know you sort of mention it, but you really need to put an enormous bold flashing-red warning in the OP about shitty PSUs. All too often I hear of people wasting money on off-brand PSUs, only to have them fail a year later. Corsair is a great brand. I've been extremely satisfied with Antec as well. Both of those are very solid PSUs. You should probably also put a note telling people never to buy any PSU that isn't 80+ certified, regardless of brand.

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 06:51 PM
Time will tell I guess :)


Sure, but all I'm saying is it's a bad idea to aim so low when we don't have any real information yet. I really hope a 5570 is all it will take and you'll be able to play no prob. But for people going out to get a new card today, it's a bad idea. I also wouldn't suggest it since most people would likely want to play more than PSO2 if they invest money into a PC like that. Getting a super cheap card like that limits their choices.

I link to a nice 5850 for $140 on page 1. it's by no means cheap but it is the best price/performance card on the market and will run pretty much anything you throw at it right now on mid-high settings, mostly high. A good 500w PSU runs $50 and will handle the 5850 without issue.


Yeah, a 5570 is barely better than a 7800 GT. If the requirements don't change, don't plan on playing on anything much better than bare minimum settings.



Anyway, Nilok, I know you sort of mention it, but you really need to put an enormous bold flashing-red warning in the OP about shitty PSUs. All too often I hear of people wasting money on off-brand PSUs, only to have them fail a year later. Corsair is a great brand. I've been extremely satisfied with Antec as well. Both of those are very solid PSUs. You should probably also put a note telling people never to buy any PSU that isn't 80+ certified, regardless of brand.

lol I've been meaning to actually so I'll keep it in mind, thanks. I'm actually looking at making a slight update in the next day or so. I'll very likely add that in then.

r00tabaga
May 17, 2011, 06:57 PM
Sure, but all I'm saying is it's a bad idea to aim so low when we don't have any real information yet. I really hope a 5570 is all it will take and you'll be able to play no prob. But for people going out to get a new card today, it's a bad idea. I also wouldn't suggest it since most people would likely want to play more than PSO2 if they invest money into a PC like that. Getting a super cheap card like that limits their choices.

I link to a nice 5850 for $140 on page 1. it's by no means cheap but it is the best price/performance card on the market and will run pretty much anything you throw at it right now on mid-high settings, mostly high. A good 500w PSU runs $50 and will handle the 5850 without issue.

All this computer talk is confusing. Consoles are so much easier. Plug in. Play.
Are there any PSO 'ish games you guys enjoy and/or recommend. If I get my bonus this month I might splurge & grab a PC finally. Nilok???

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 07:56 PM
Really I don't see it as that confusing. it's basically just looking at some numbers which are extremely easy to read. In my mind it's hardly different from saying "PS2 or PS3?"


I recently got into vindictus which is 100% free to play. It's as PSO as you can get IMO, but it has a lot of customization options for skills and moves and is even like old PSO in that when you pick a character, you pick a class. So while one character specializes in dual weapons, they can never use a sword and shield. And still each "class" has a level of customization to it. In addition it has some monster hunter like qualities like monsters having tells and armor changing appearance. You still gain levels and such so it's not equipment = stats and you still have to have some level of skill to play. you can't just mash buttons and win, especially on higher level bosses and raids. It's far from perfect, but for not having to pay a cent to play it, it's pretty damn good.

You don't even have to buy the game. Down side is it IS run with a cash store, but nothing you can get from the store affects the game outside of expanded storage, the rest is all aesthetic character customization. outside of that, download steam and check out their store. lots of quality games can be found on there for a price and they have sales all the time. I got borderlands GOTY for $7 last month. DLC for that game on PSN is $10 each and the GOTY has all the DLC included...makes it a pretty awesome deal.

Also, I added a section on PSUs.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 08:05 PM
What, you don't like Antec? In my experience, their PSUs are every bit as reliable as Corsair's, and usually a little bit cheaper.

Niloklives
May 17, 2011, 08:22 PM
Antec is good. but I put them in the same category as coolermaster. antec usually gets other companies to build their PSUs as well like corsair does with seasonic. In fact some antecs ARE Seasonics. But some aren't. I think my biggest issue with Antec right now is I'm pissed with them about some of their designs for cases. They're incredibly sturdy and have great airflow, but they have very limited internal space and are poorly thought out.

Additionally their features at the price points offered are laughable. like their 900 series cases which people swear by are a joke imo. The switches to alter the speed of the fans are inside of the case, meaning you have to remove the side panel and reach inside of the computer to adjust fan speed and they actually claim this is a feature. There's other stuff too, like how the huge 1200 full tower size case is actually only a very large mid tower or how the removeable and washable air filters require you pull out the HDD chasis which means removing 16-24 thumbscrews after taking the case apart, but I'm not going to rant.

Point is I'm not a big fan of the company right now. Some of their PSUs are solid, but the only ones I've read anything really good about recently are their earthwatts models. In addition I've seen a lot of antecs that use multiple rails, which I avoid. Overall I have nothing bad to say about the PSUs, I just don't have anything particularly good to say either. Meanwhile seasonic/corsairs are known to be able to take more than they're specified for. Not saying I would suggest it, but they're quite robust and quiet.

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 17, 2011, 08:30 PM
Fair enough, I've never used any of their cases, just PSUs (which, come to think of it, have all probably been earthwatts models).

Niloklives
May 27, 2011, 08:17 AM
Just bumping this back up to the top to keep it from falling off page 1. if people have suggestions for new info, let me know.

Miyoko
May 27, 2011, 09:57 PM
Thinking about the whole "Is my PC good enough to run the game" stuff, I started wondering -- How well does Sega optimize their games for PC? Excluding PSO/BB/PSU, which weren't optimized very well (FRAMESKIP JESUS), how well does Sega make PC games? I'm all for tweaking games for better performance, so long as we actually have the tools to do so!

Kion
May 27, 2011, 11:34 PM
Just bumping this back up to the top to keep it from falling off page 1. if people have suggestions for new info, let me know.

Not too much happening right now. Sega updated the beta page on pso2.jp with a new letter from Saki. But it just says, "we're looking for feedback on the alpha". Computex starts on Monday, that will give us an idea of what computer hardware will be coming out later this year.

Niloklives
May 28, 2011, 02:42 AM
Not too much happening right now. Sega updated the beta page on pso2.jp with a new letter from Saki. But it just says, "we're looking for feedback on the alpha". Computex starts on Monday, that will give us an idea of what computer hardware will be coming out later this year.

I was more specifically talking about information that I may have carelessly left out. but thanks for the reply, Kion.

Kion
May 28, 2011, 03:30 AM
I was more specifically talking about information that I may have carelessly left out. but thanks for the reply, Kion.

Free bump. Can this thread get stickied yet?

Azure Knight
May 28, 2011, 03:16 PM
bumpety bump... I second that request, this topic should be stickied

Ezodagrom
Jun 1, 2011, 09:34 AM
A new rumour about AMD new high-end processors (AMD Bulldozer) and the next series of Intel processors (Intel Ivy Bridge).
Apparently AMD Bulldozer (FX-series) was delayed until August 2011 (it was planned for June/July) and Intel Ivy Bridge was delayed until March 2012 (it was planned for January).
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/05/30/bulldozer-and-ivy-bridge-both-delayed-a-bit/

RemiusTA
Jun 1, 2011, 09:45 AM
So my new laptop, Dell Inspiron i5r (that replaced my Gateway Nv52 since they sucked and stopped making them) is packing an i3 processor and Intel Integrated HD graphics. (UGH.)

Hoping it'll at least run on minimum. I doubt i'd need more processing power, even if i3 is the lowest of the series, but im just not sure about my graphics card. I can run Sonic Heroes and PSOBB on highest setting (highest puts out tiny bits of lag on 1024 resolution), but i haven't tried anything newer than that.

Sonic Heroes runs just fine with minimal lag at 30FPS, and it was a gamecube game. Hopefully, this game will be optimized correctly. Then again, this is a replacement laptop because my other one kept screwing over. Basically a free upgrade.

Kion
Jun 1, 2011, 10:28 AM
Can't do anything until it comes out, install it, see if it works and then decide if you need to upgrade.

As for computex, there's at least one really sexy computer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=put2VPcsZWo&feature=player_embedded

Niloklives
Jun 1, 2011, 05:52 PM
the i3's GPU isn't rated anywhere close to the minimum specs for the alpha. I doubt it will run but you can always try it.

RemiusTA
Jun 1, 2011, 10:54 PM
honestly, i doubt ill have much issue running the game.

playable, not sure, but i could run the game.

I doubt the onboard HD graphics for Intel is all that much weaker than Geforce 7800.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 1, 2011, 11:14 PM
Onboard GPUs are universally terrible. Good luck running chess, much less a real game.

RemiusTA
Jun 2, 2011, 01:18 AM
it works though. I dont have any problem running any of the games on my computer right now.

And besides, nobody plays real games on laptops anyway.

Akaimizu
Jun 2, 2011, 05:31 AM
Well, except for stuff like Dragon Age or Portal 2, or something, whichnrun flawlessly on mine. Crysis runs well too. But those aren't real games, of course. What's odd is that the next Heroes of Might and Magic will require higher specs than those. Who'd think a turn-based strategy RPG, with the least detail and movement, would require the most specs? Even the preview media of it doesn't look like it would take half that.

Niloklives
Jun 2, 2011, 06:31 AM
it works though. I dont have any problem running any of the games on my computer right now.

And besides, nobody plays real games on laptops anyway.

you know he was exaggerating. point is "run" in this sense is "game allows for normal play" and no, in integrated graphics on an i3 for a laptop is not the equivalent of a 7800gt. Go check the list on page 1 before you speculate on something like that.

Akaimizu
Jun 2, 2011, 10:33 AM
Actually, an Nvidia 310M mobile generally eeks out a bit more GPU performance than the Intel Integrated chip does on the I-series machines. Almost a shame how Intel forcibly caused quite a few laptops to accept their brand of chips. (About the only way people would consciously go Intel Graphics, in the first place) It's like you have to take a hit somewhere just to get the better CPU. Unless you spend enough over that.

It's that Intel lockout thing that pretty much set the journey to affordable speedy laptops back a bit.

Niloklives
Jun 2, 2011, 07:44 PM
Actually, an Nvidia 310M mobile generally eeks out a bit more GPU performance than the Intel Integrated chip does on the I-series machines. Almost a shame how Intel forcibly caused quite a few laptops to accept their brand of chips. (About the only way people would consciously go Intel Graphics, in the first place) It's like you have to take a hit somewhere just to get the better CPU. Unless you spend enough over that.

It's that Intel lockout thing that pretty much set the journey to affordable speedy laptops back a bit.

Right but even a 310M doesn't stack up to a 7800gt

RemiusTA
Jun 3, 2011, 12:42 AM
you know he was exaggerating. point is "run" in this sense is "game allows for normal play" Look, I barely even read that guy's posts anymore.


and no, in integrated graphics on an i3 for a laptop is not the equivalent of a 7800gt. Go check the list on page 1 before you speculate on something like that.yeah



I doubt the onboard HD graphics for Intel is all that much weaker than Geforce 7800. I'd probably still be able to run the game. Not sustain it, but at the very least run it. And this game isn't coming out for at least another year. That's plenty of time for me to get an actual desktop.

Niloklives
Jun 3, 2011, 07:13 AM
I doubt it will be that long. and "all that much weaker" is saying you think it can do the job. Go look at the actual numbers. you'll see it's not even the same ball park.

Akaimizu
Jun 3, 2011, 08:39 AM
Right but even a 310M doesn't stack up to a 7800gt

Correct. There were plenty of laptops with better integrated GPUs than the 310M. The 320 and 330 models were out, too. While still not better than a 7800, they certainly still outsped the newer Intel model.

Niloklives
Jun 3, 2011, 10:21 AM
Right my point was the integrated graphics on his i3 were no where near a 7800GT.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 3, 2011, 05:11 PM
Look, I barely even read that guy's posts anymore.I don't blame you for wanting to ignore me, but don't reply unless you've read and understood what was said.

Kion
Jun 3, 2011, 10:32 PM
The i3 maybe no where near the 7800GT, but it will probably "run" the game (25fps on low is still running). It doesn't meet the specs for the minimum on the alpha, but Sakai said they were trying to make the game available to everyone. I think they're probably going for the Hideo Kojima-style; low polygon, high effects approach and then being able to adjust to what your system can handle.

Niloklives
Jun 4, 2011, 03:37 AM
we don't know anything yet though. we can only assume based off the specs given and for all we know a 7800gt might really be the bare minimum

Kion
Jun 4, 2011, 03:51 PM
Damn I am bored. Still no updates on pso2.jp.

Thought this was cool though. Gigabyte has made a 14" notebook with a dock for a dedicated graphics card.
[spoiler-box]
i5-2410M
4GB DDR3
500GB 7200RPM drive

dock: Geforce 440GT
[/spoiler-box]
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/m2432-hed.jpg
full story: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/04/gigabyte-m2432-laptop-with-geforce-gt-440-graphics-card-dock-han/
I'd really like to see more stuff like this.

No_Cigar
Jun 4, 2011, 08:04 PM
How does intel HD 2000 graphics compare to a geforce gt 220? And is intel HD 2000 strong enough to play this game? I'm assuming yes but I don't really know.

I know you said geforce gt 220 is good, but I have been looking for how intel HD 2000 stacks up and I can't find any comparisons.

Niloklives
Jun 4, 2011, 08:12 PM
First off, I've talked about this both on page 1 and the HD 2000 was talked about hardly a page ago.

The short answer is no.

The slightly longer answer is no one talks about it anywhere because integrated graphics are horrible for gaming.

No_Cigar
Jun 4, 2011, 08:48 PM
Thanks. That's good to know.

Malachite
Jun 4, 2011, 10:44 PM
The i3 maybe no where near the 7800GT, but it will probably "run" the game (25fps on low is still running). It doesn't meet the specs for the minimum on the alpha, but Sakai said they were trying to make the game available to everyone. I think they're probably going for the Hideo Kojima-style; low polygon, high effects approach and then being able to adjust to what your system can handle.

Are you comparing a processor to a graphics card, somehow? Lol.

I can almost guarantee you that no integrated graphics card will run this game at anything remotely playable, unless you're one of those people who can put up with 10 frames a second (if that).

And what are you talking about Hideo Kojima and low polygons? I seem to recall Kojima saying Snake's mustache in MGS4 had 'more polygons than a soldier in MGS3'.

Kion
Jun 5, 2011, 12:04 AM
For MGS2, MGS3 and Zone of the Enders, he adopted a style that used very simple graphics with a lot of effects to make the most of what the ps2 could handle.

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2011, 08:50 AM
Are you comparing a processor to a graphics card, somehow? Lol.
The Core i3/i5/i7 2000 series of processors have integrated graphics on them, so no, Kion is not comparing a processor with a graphics card.

Malachite
Jun 6, 2011, 02:54 AM
Oh, okay. Wasn't quite sure what he meant there.

Regardless, playing this game without a proper dedicated graphics card is not going to be pleasant.

Kion
Jun 6, 2011, 11:28 AM
The better rig you can get the better off you are. But in terms of game play, doing runs and chatting with you're friends make ups the core of the content. I can live with out the icing on the cake; as long the game runs at a decent frame rate.

Malachite
Jun 6, 2011, 01:57 PM
That's the thing... I can almost guarantee you that it won't run in any enjoyable fashion with an integrated gpu.

I mean, I obviously can't be 100% sure, I haven't tried. But the chances that you'll get a framerate above 20 is quite slim.

Kion
Jun 6, 2011, 08:13 PM
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/11

Surprisingly the i3 hangs around 20 fps for bioshock 2 on low settings. All we can do is wait until the actual games comes out. The current generation intel hd 2000 is probably a stretch.

ROCKETMAN-PSO
Jun 7, 2011, 06:59 PM
I assume a HP workstaion with x38 chipset, E8400 processor, 4 gig ram, ATI fireGL V5600 running windows 7 64bit will be fine to run it?

It's a computer I use at home for solidworks but as my laptop is really getting on now I will probably use this workstation at nights. Probably will end up being a general home pc when I upgrade later this year my work PC to a newer HP x58 chipset workstation anyway.

Niloklives
Jun 7, 2011, 08:50 PM
the fireGL v5600 isn't on the same level as a 7800GT. it may run ok but the settings will have to be minimal and even then you may experience poor frame rates.

Also I might hold off on x58 as they're bringing out some new high end sandybridge cpus at the end of the year. As far as gaming goes, if you're ok gaming on your work station, I'd just run it on the new system unless you want to invest in a new gpu.

ROCKETMAN-PSO
Jun 8, 2011, 06:47 AM
The fireGL v5600 is similar to the basics in the Radeon HD 2600 XT (GDDR4), obviously it was designed for CAD though and has a 5x price diference on as the usual consiquence which basically pays for better cooling, stability and the drivers as far as I know but other then that they cut your your arm off for these CAD graphics cards

Anyway would that not compare more to the 8600GT. Is that much better then a 7600GT anyway?

I'm thinking anyway the more likely problem will be the drivers? The card has very specific drivers for CAD and gaming was never envisaged in it's running.

Kion
Jun 8, 2011, 09:09 AM
Finally some information on llano.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74
Looks like it maybe a possible discrete solution for PSO2.

Ezodagrom
Jun 8, 2011, 09:19 AM
Finally some information on llano.
YouTube - &#x202a;AMD Fusion APU Llano in a Multi-Tasking Technology Demonstration&#x202c;&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPi4GPEI74)
Looks like it maybe a possible discrete solution for PSO2.
That's a kinda old video, from february. ^^;
But yeah, the integrated Llano GPU doesn't seem too bad (it'll be most likely worse than the Radeon HD5570 though).

Niloklives
Jun 8, 2011, 04:20 PM
The fireGL v5600 is similar to the basics in the Radeon HD 2600 XT (GDDR4), obviously it was designed for CAD though and has a 5x price diference on as the usual consiquence which basically pays for better cooling, stability and the drivers as far as I know but other then that they cut your your arm off for these CAD graphics cards

Anyway would that not compare more to the 8600GT. Is that much better then a 7600GT anyway?

I'm thinking anyway the more likely problem will be the drivers? The card has very specific drivers for CAD and gaming was never envisaged in it's running.

Yeah i know it's a CAD oriented video card. regardless the actual processing power is just slightly better than a 7600GT when the minimum is a 7800GT. As i said, it not up to the task.

Kion
Jun 9, 2011, 08:38 AM
Looks like some hard data on the A8 has hit the interwebs.
AMD Llano A8-3800 APU Benchmark results:
Super Pi (1M) – 54.382 sec (Stock) / 23.958 sec (3Ghz)
Super Pi (8M) – 10m 38 sec (Stock) / 4m 25 sec (3Ghz)
AIDA64 memory bandwidth: Read: 8602 MB, Write: 6155 MB, Copy: 9171 MB (Stock) /Read: 8836 MB, Write: 7122 MB, Copy: 10299 MB (3Ghz)
Nuclearus: 9578 (Stock) / 13061 (3Ghz)
CINEBENCH R11.5: OpenGL: 28.94 fps CPU: 2.89 pts (Stock) / OpenGL: 30.49 fps CPU: 3.68 pts (3Ghz)
3Dmark06: 6616 (stock) / 7278 (3Ghz)
3Dmark Vantage: 4019 (stock) / 4366 (3Ghz)
3Dmark 11 Extreme Preset: E1764 (Stock) / E1950 (3Ghz)


Also how good is a (low profile) Radeon HD 6570? Would that and an i3 be enough to match the alpha specs?

Ezodagrom
Jun 9, 2011, 11:49 AM
Also how good is a (low profile) Radeon HD 6570? Would that and an i3 be enough to match the alpha specs?
The HD6570 is above the 7800GT, its performance is somewhere between the HD5570 and the HD5670, and the HD5570 is a card capable of running Crysis at medium settings. :P

Will it be able to run PSO2? Based on the alpha specs, yeah, but it all depends on how well SEGA develops the game...

Malachite
Jun 9, 2011, 12:16 PM
Unless the game gets far more demanding before release, yeah you should definitely be fine with a 6570.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2011, 12:24 PM
I doubt it will be that long. and "all that much weaker" is saying you think it can do the job. Go look at the actual numbers. you'll see it's not even the same ball park.


I'll let you know. Okay?

risbolla
Jun 11, 2011, 01:14 PM
i5-2500K 3.30GHz @ 4.3GHz
GeForce GTX 480 1536MB

Will I get 120 FPS at 1920*1080?

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 11, 2011, 07:27 PM
Sorry, I seem to have misplaced my crystal ball.

Malachite
Jun 12, 2011, 10:38 AM
Lol 120 FPS?

Why?

Niloklives
Jun 12, 2011, 12:56 PM
To troll hard with

risbolla
Jun 13, 2011, 09:38 AM
Lol 120 FPS?

Why?

So I can use my 3D glasses

RemiusTA
Jun 13, 2011, 02:32 PM
at 120 fps it lets him play into the future, jeeze you guys are slow

Akaimizu
Jun 13, 2011, 02:59 PM
And I thought it had to be just anything over 88. Because once this puppy hits over 88, you're gonna see some serious sh.....uh......stuff.

Niloklives
Jun 13, 2011, 03:17 PM
But Doc, what happened to Einie?!

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 13, 2011, 03:26 PM
Great Scott!

Ok, enough of that.

Niloklives
Jun 13, 2011, 06:55 PM
EIGHTY EIGHT FRAMES PER SECOND!!!!!

Ok NOW we can drop it.

Kion
Jun 13, 2011, 07:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQlwyNBIyuI

NOW we can drop it.

Code-red
Jun 17, 2011, 10:39 AM
thanks for the info on what types of laptops you don't recommend buying.
but i was talking to my friend about getting a gaming laptop to play pso2
he told me to get a xps.

is the xps able to run the game once it comes out or i should just get the asus?

Malachite
Jun 17, 2011, 11:49 AM
Lol, the asus.

Asus over Dell, always.

Niloklives
Jun 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
Dell and Alienware are the same company and both really bad. Asus over Dell all day every day.

RemiusTA
Jun 17, 2011, 05:49 PM
Fuck dell.

*clicks another firefox tab on his new inspiron laptop*

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 17, 2011, 07:02 PM
Eww, firefox.

Niloklives
Jun 18, 2011, 05:04 AM
eww fuzzy with two Fs

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 18, 2011, 11:34 AM
Hey I really liked Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine back in 2005, ok?

Niloklives
Jul 1, 2011, 03:31 AM
Made a few changes since some links were outdated. Let me know if I missed any.

Where's my sticky?

Alex Longstride
Jul 5, 2011, 05:28 PM
I think my computer might actually be overkill for the Alpha requirements... It's an HPE-500f (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147698&cm_re=HPE-500f-_-83-147-698-_-Product) with an aftermarket Corsair 650W PSU and a Radeon 5770... But overkill is better than under-kill. My next paycheck is going towards wireless virtual surround headphones. I don't think I need to upgrade any core components, but if anything I probably want to shell out for an SSD to speed up my boot and app loading (The stock hard drive is big but slow as hell).

Niloklives
Jul 6, 2011, 11:18 AM
as far as current gaming rigs go, that's on the lower end of the spectrum, but you're right, you'r exceeding the alpha reqs at least in terms of your gpu

Alex Longstride
Jul 6, 2011, 06:19 PM
as far as current gaming rigs go, that's on the lower end of the spectrum, but you're right, you'r exceeding the alpha reqs at least in terms of your gpu

Not to mention hexa-core CPU (2.7GHz; not the fastest but still more than enough).

Niloklives
Jul 17, 2011, 10:39 AM
I'm surprised Kion hasn't come back with Llano benches

Kion
Jul 18, 2011, 12:10 AM
I'm surprised I haven't either. Not much point until the game actually comes out.

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 01:59 AM
3Dmark06
i5 2500k - 6101
i3 2105 - 5114
A8 3850 - 4134
A6 3650 - 3545
Llano series is pretty disappointing.

Niloklives
Jul 21, 2011, 03:39 AM
You have to remember two things:

Intel is the shit

Llano was never meant to compete with ivy bridge, just to offer a decent CPU with a better than average GPU for an affordable price. The GPU functions are really good considering they're just on the die, the problem is it comes at the high cost of CPU capability. Honestly, i don't expect much from AMD in terms of CPUs anyway. They're fine if you're on a budget, but intel has had the performance market cornered for years.

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 07:51 AM
Except the A8 and i3 2105 are both $140. So AMD didn't even manage to beat intel on price this round.

RemiusTA
Jul 21, 2011, 08:10 AM
Like i said before, either its the switch from Windows Vista to Windows 7 (wonderful, i say), or a switch from an AMD to an Intel i3, but my new laptop's performance is so much better than my last that it makes me giggle.

And it's in no way high end at all. Average at best, i'd say. I can't imagine how a High-end rig would run these days. (Once i get a job, i guess ill find out, lol.)

Ezodagrom
Jul 21, 2011, 08:40 AM
3Dmark06
i5 2500k - 6101
i3 2105 - 5114
A8 3850 - 4134
A6 3650 - 3545
Llano series is pretty disappointing.
Those 3DMark 06 score are only the CPU scores, they're not the full 3DMark 06 scores. It was quite obvious that the CPU side of Llano was going to be inferior compared to the Core i3/i5, since the Llano CPU was based on the Athlon II core.

3DMark Vantage score (CPU+GPU):
A8 3850 - 4066
A6 3650 - 3154
i5 2500K - 1685


Except the A8 and i3 2105 are both $140. So AMD didn't even manage to beat intel on price this round.
For a cheap Media Center PC (pretty much what Llano should be used for), the AMD Fusion series are better options than the Core i3 series, it's better to have an average CPU with average graphics than a good CPU with bad graphics.

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 08:44 AM
Personally I'm saving up to buy a laptop around next February. I'm assuming by then PSO2 will be out and I'll be able to see what the required specs are and what kind of hardware is on the market. Until then I'm trying not to look too far into it. I mean when is the freaking alpha going to start?



3DMark Vantage score (CPU+GPU):
A8 3850 - 4066
A6 3650 - 3154
i5 2500K - 1685


Looks like i didn't look hard enough^^;

funkyskunk
Jul 21, 2011, 10:10 AM
Just wondered why all the CPU suggestions are Sandybridge when there was a major bug in those CPU's?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-sata-error-pentium-fdiv-bug,12115.html

On top of this, the motherboards for sandybridge CPU's have some random socket type that can only be used with sandybridge processors.

I think you should be making everyone aware of this. I built a PC at the start of this year and sandybridge was factored into it. As soon as I found out about the bugs and realised the socket issues I decided to get an i5 760 instead. :-?

Ezodagrom
Jul 21, 2011, 02:07 PM
The bug was in the chipset, not in the CPU, and it has already been fixed. All motherboards for Sandy Bridge that are now available in stores are using the fixed revision of the chipset (revision B3).

About the socket, it's just a different requirement for Sandy Bridge processors. New processor architectures require new chipsets, they used a different socket so users won't be able to use a Sandy Bridge processor in a platform that doesn't support it.

Niloklives
Jul 21, 2011, 05:18 PM
Ezo beat me to it, but I want to just reinforce what he said and state he's 100% correct on both counts and to please make sure your information is up to date before you make statements like that.

Also, Kion, I hope you understand what I was getting at now. the Llano CPUs are inferior to SB CPUs for raw CPU power, but much better for onboard GPU.

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 05:52 PM
That's pretty much what I was expecting from them, and I really like the approach. With normal computing use, you can get by fine with out much cpu power, but it takes a decent gpu to manage gaming. My plan is to sit back and wait, and see what integrated graphics are capable of come PSO2 launch.
I'm surprised the reaction i got in the pso2 console thread. Assuming a lone A8 maybe able to play the game on decent settings for a decent price in a mini-itx format. Seems like it would be a good entry pc, easy to assemble and hook up to your tv like a console. I think haters are just going to hate.

Ecchi
Jul 21, 2011, 05:53 PM
If your pc cant handle those graphics.....Go buy a new one an just throw that thing you call a pc out the window.

Malachite
Jul 21, 2011, 06:16 PM
I think haters are just going to hate.

It's not so much about hatin', as much as it is about Sega's lack of ability to optimize anything. Going on PSU as an example, you'll be out of luck. Hopefully, that isn't the case though.

Hotobu
Jul 21, 2011, 06:26 PM
Just wondered why all the CPU suggestions are Sandybridge when there was a major bug in those CPU's?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-sata-error-pentium-fdiv-bug,12115.html

On top of this, the motherboards for sandybridge CPU's have some random socket type that can only be used with sandybridge processors.

I think you should be making everyone aware of this. I built a PC at the start of this year and sandybridge was factored into it. As soon as I found out about the bugs and realised the socket issues I decided to get an i5 760 instead. :-?

Did you really just post an article about a processor flaw from January expecting to be taken seriously? Those issues have been fixed. Six months to a processor run is a long time.

As for the AMD's APU you don't take a Honda Civic to a NASCAR event. They aren't supposed to be the best of the best. They're getting badmouthed when, ironically, some of the people here who don't play many PC games, but just want to play PSO2 are the perfect demographic for it. With respect to the released and projected specs it should run PSO2 perfectly well, and can be part of a setup for a machine with a small footprint, that doesn't consume a lot of power, and is fine for an ORPG that doesn't require much horsepower.

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 06:33 PM
How would a build on this with a i3/i5 hold up? Newegg Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500070)
[spoiler-box]
ZOTAC Z68-ITX WiFi Supreme
Integrated NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 430 GPU w/1GB DDR3
2 x DDR3-1333 SO-DIMM slots
Support up to 16GB memory
Dual DVI, HDMI & DisplayPort outputs
PCI Express x4 (open-end) expansion
1 mSATA slot
2 SATA 6.0 Gb/s
2 SATA 3.0 Gb/s
RAID 0, 1, 0+1 & 5 support
1 eSATA 3.0 Gb/s
4 USB 3.0 ports (2 on back panel, 2 via pin header)
4 USB 2.0 ports (2 on back panel, 2 via pin headers)
Gigabit Ethernet
[/spoiler-box]

Niloklives
Jul 21, 2011, 08:34 PM
that's a pretty expensive motherboard for what you're trying to do. is there a reason you want to go with mini itx and all that? I'm pretty sure you could get a decent board and a better GPU for the same price or less unless you were trying to put it in a really tiny box

Kion
Jul 21, 2011, 10:02 PM
I live in a tiiiiiiiiiiny apartment. I really don't have room for a full computer. I think I'm going to just get a laptop next year and if it plays it fine, if not then screw it.

Also, I double checked the 430 GT. It's about the same as a Radeon 5770. So it doesn't seem like it would be much more powerful than what Llano has to offer anyways.

Niloklives
Jul 21, 2011, 10:50 PM
check again, cause when I looked they weren't even in the same ball park.


the passmark score on the 5770 is almost 1700 while the 430 comes in at about 700. huge difference.

Ezodagrom
Jul 22, 2011, 12:07 AM
GT430 is much, much worse than the HD5770 (which is slightly better than the GTS450), the GT430 is even worse than the HD5570.

Niloklives
Jul 22, 2011, 01:07 AM
I really wanna know where kion is getting his info sometimes.