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DannGunn
May 25, 2011, 04:18 AM
Considering PSO2 is set to be the true sequel too PSO I don't really see why so many people are talking about PSU features. I played PSU briefly and was whole heartedly disappointed by the game it almost put me off the entire franchise :-x.

I envisage PSO2 to basically disregard everything about PSU and I think developers probably went into making this as if PSU was never made (That would of been the best idea from a development standpoint in my opinion). I'd like to see PSO2 literally continuing from PSO on Ragol exploring more of the planets environment and maybe even revisiting some of its previous areas?

What do you think? Will the franchise continue with PSU's lack luster game play or will it expand on PSO's winning recipe?

Milla
May 25, 2011, 05:11 AM
Say what you will about PSU, but it did bring some gameplay changes that improved PSO's dated
formula. Sega hopefully will bring over all the Good features of both games.

Also if you have seen the trailer you would know there is already some elements of PSU in the game like PP, some kind of PA system, blocking etc.

Inb4 PSU vs PSO thread.

Sord
May 25, 2011, 05:14 AM
It's going to have PSU influences. First glaringingly obvious thing being PP still exists. Sega isn't going to take everything it's learned with the online gaming and mechanics for the series and just flush it down the drain to try and experiment with a purely revamped version of a system that's a decade old now. That's stupid from both a marketing and game dev standpoint.

I'm hoping for a nice in-between. I am certainly not a purist of either side. Yeah, PSO was great back in the day, but it's ten years later now, the world of gaming has progressed. I still play PSOBB every once in awhile, it feels old, outdated, overrun, simple, and rather boring in comparison to what can be done in today's world. I can only play it for so long. PSU had some interesting ideas, but for the most part they were just executed terribly. Then you had bad ideas that were also badly executed (synth boards, ouph,) certainly did not help. However, since then we've had 3 portable versions worked on, and each one has apparently made things progressively better. There's not a chance in hell Sega is throwing that away for a pure PSO game.

Alnet
May 25, 2011, 05:23 AM
Well, for starters, the pre-alpha trailer we've seen definitely doesn't look like it plays like 2001's PSO on Dreamcast. That should be explanation enough as to why people are saying that it's not going to play exactly like PSO.

And it's been stated to death that PSO is 10 years old, so there needs to be some kind of gameplay development, and I couldn't agree more. It'd please a relatively small userbase of hardcore old-school PSO fans to have Phantasy Star Online HD Remix, but if everything were left exactly the same, it would be boring to just about everyone else. PSO was a fantastic game for its time, and that's what's some people seem to have forgotten. Times change, and so do players' expectations.

moorebounce
May 25, 2011, 06:35 AM
Phantasy Star 0 had the best of both PSO and PSU. IMO Sega is going that route with PSO2. PSU wasn't all bad but a good part of it was. As others have mentioed you can see PSU influences in what we've seen in PSO2 already.

NoiseHERO
May 25, 2011, 09:14 AM
Feels more like this game is going to be PSZ, mixed with PSP2i with a bunch of new and fixed and improved ideas.

It's not gonna suck because it's "durr not going to be PSO HD", and it's not going to suck be it's going to "b'awwww make PSU's mistakes." It already looks like SEGA's learned a lot from their mistakes, so I trust Sekai.

This is a new game that we know nothing about, and PSO vs PSU argument number 557 isn't going to do shit about it. Either you'll like it when it comes out, or you won't.

The only thing people should be worried about until we get more than just a few hints and gameplay is our future management.

BIG OLAF
May 25, 2011, 11:43 AM
Oh look, it's that thread again.

I get a feeling that people are doing it on purpose now. I mean, the OP's very first post on this site just so happens to be a mutation of the phrase "LOL PSU SUCKED". Seems 100% intentional on starting a flame war...

...especially considering that the thread's title is "Forget PSU dynamics in PSO2", when it's quite clear from the Alpha trailer that there are plenty of PSU (well, more along the lines of PSP2/i) dynamics present.

NoiseHERO
May 25, 2011, 11:52 AM
That explains why I stopped reading after he said "true sequel to PSO."

Vintasticvin
May 25, 2011, 01:25 PM
Should we get this thread locked up like that one drunken thread I did in the past and... Here, get happy people we are having a PSO:2 and kis them unfinishes fan games buh bais!"]Here, get happy people we are having a PSO:2 and kiss them unfinished fan games buh byes with this link of happiness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAiCRuK98ig

r00tabaga
May 25, 2011, 02:10 PM
Haha, you should have linked the 10 hour long video instead.

Tetsaru
May 25, 2011, 02:25 PM
To the OP: this being your first post on these forums, you'll soon learn that it's unwise to start "PSO vs. PSU" arguments, as they generally don't end well and have happened in numerous other threads. I'm surprised the mods haven't instated a new rule against it, as much as it happens. It's like comparing FFVII to FFXIII, or old-school Sonic to the newer Sonic. Likewise, PSO is generally regarded as better than PSU, but both have their strong points, and they're both still Phantasy Star games.

As far as I know, Dragon Sakai, the guy who was in charge of development with the Phantasy Star Portable games, is also in charge of PSO2's development. He worked on PSU, but if I recall correctly, he wasn't in charge of it. I've only played a tiny bit of the first Phantasy Star Portable, but from what I've heard from friends who have played the second one, it's a vast improvement over PSU, so I'm fairly confident he'll do a good job, especially if he and his team implement the best aspects of all the previous games.

That said, all the information about PSO2 we currently have to go by is the vague stuff from last year's Tokyo Game Show's original announcement of the game, and the pre-Alpha video that came out back in April. We'll need to wait until E3 (June 7-9, so not that long actually) or this year's Tokyo Game Show (September 15-18 I think) to get any more solid info, or hope some Alpha gameplay videos surface on Youtube or something.

moorebounce
May 25, 2011, 02:46 PM
Was PSO getting old.....Yes.....PSU changed things but strayed too far from the winning formula PSO had going for it. The portable games seem to mix all the good from both PSO and PSU. I really like PSZ but it's a portable game and I'm not a big portable fan. After playing PSZ I've said if they ever made a console or PC version of the portable games I'll come back to the PSO franchise. It looks like that day is coming and Thank You Sega.

BIG OLAF
May 25, 2011, 02:55 PM
Was PSO getting old.....Yes.....PSU changed things but strayed too far from the winning formula PSO had going for it. The portable games seem to mix all the good from both PSO and PSU. I really like PSZ but it's a portable game and I'm not a big portable fan. After playing PSZ I've said if they ever made a console or PC version of the portable games I'll come back to the PSO franchise. It looks like that day is coming and Thank You Sega.

PSO2 looks nothing like PSZ, though.

moorebounce
May 25, 2011, 03:17 PM
I mean come on people aren't totally happy about most videogames and PSO and PSU aren't any differen't. Some people hate games when they first play it and after a while it tends to grow on them. Some people like the game but start to come across bugs or even features they don't like making them hate it.

The forums are here for people to voice their opinions about the stuff they like or hate about the videogames they play. If anything it helps developers gauge their fan base. Some people seem to forget that aspect of forums and are such fanboys they don't want to hear the bad stuff about their beloved game(s). What you see here or on Sega boards is nowhere near what you get on Madden football boards. This is considered the suburbs compared to the Madden ghettos. lol

Nitro Vordex
May 25, 2011, 03:28 PM
I wasn't aware people who play Madden games could have discussions.

Pillan
May 25, 2011, 03:28 PM
I suppose I should point out the irony in the fact that the last time they made a sequel purely based on the experience of PSO, we got PSU.

r00tabaga
May 25, 2011, 03:32 PM
PSO2 looks nothing like PSZ, though.

PSz had more of a fantasy/western feel to it right? I bought it for my son but he got frustrated with it real fast (no Mario or Sonic). Graphics aside, I don't see a resemblance of PSO2 & PSz. It's clearly more PSP2 than anything else SO FAR imo.

BIG OLAF
May 25, 2011, 03:58 PM
Graphics aside, I don't see a resemblance of PSO2 & PSz. It's clearly more PSP2 than anything else SO FAR imo.

^Pretty much exactly what I meant. But, according to moorebounce, that makes me an incestuous retard. He's such a nice guy, isn't he?! :D

r00tabaga
May 25, 2011, 04:01 PM
Question: Did PSz have a traditional MAG system or was it more PSU? I know they were in there but I'm not sure how they worked.

BIG OLAF
May 25, 2011, 04:03 PM
Question: Did PSz have a traditional MAG system or was it more PSU? I know they were in there but I'm not sure how they worked.

They were basically the same deal as PSO.

Tetsaru
May 25, 2011, 04:04 PM
Question: Did PSz have a traditional MAG system or was it more PSU? I know they were in there but I'm not sure how they worked.

From what I remember, they worked just like PSO's did, but I don't know how the evolutionary chains worked, or if any of the item feeding was the same.

Shakuri
May 25, 2011, 04:51 PM
Yeah I totally agree with OP, it should go throwback style, all the way back to the nostalgic days of PSO Episode 1. Forget PSU's new mechanics and improvements, the old, slow way is always better, since its what I'm used to. Nevermind everyone else, and I give a big fat "fuck you" to new ideas.

pso4lyfe

Mike
May 25, 2011, 08:23 PM
From what I remember, they worked just like PSO's did, but I don't know how the evolutionary chains worked, or if any of the item feeding was the same.
Zero's mags were far easier to raise than PSO mags were. You could feed mags in Zero weapons, armor, and items. They could also only have a single PB and were capped at 100.

r00tabaga
May 25, 2011, 08:46 PM
Thanks Mike, that is exactly what I wanted to know. I have no idea how they're gonna be handled now, but PSZ's system sounds good.

Fayorei
May 25, 2011, 11:03 PM
I think I liked PSU more than most, but the tech grinding took its toll on me. That, and I wanted a true melee/spell class to simulate a HUnewearl, and when I played Wartechers were generally laughed at.:P I also got AotI when it came out, but by then all my friends had quit.:(

I honestly think the best thing PSO 2 could do is borrow elements of PSP2i. But add Mags!!! And unify TP usage (a great step back to something that wasn't really broken in PSO done by PSP2), but make Fluids available again. Monofluids, Difluids, Trifluids.:)

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 04:17 AM
Considering PSO2 is set to be the true sequel too PSO I don't really see why so many people are talking about PSU features. I played PSU briefly and was whole heartedly disappointed by the game it almost put me off the entire franchise :-x.

I envisage PSO2 to basically disregard everything about PSU and I think developers probably went into making this as if PSU was never made (That would of been the best idea from a development standpoint in my opinion). I'd like to see PSO2 literally continuing from PSO on Ragol exploring more of the planets environment and maybe even revisiting some of its previous areas?

What do you think? Will the franchise continue with PSU's lack luster game play or will it expand on PSO's winning recipe?

PSO was lackluster in gameplay qualities as well. They were just executed better. Taking in the new with the old and making it better; it's called innovation. PSO did it, and it's about time they tried to do it again. You speak as if PSU did nothing right. You would be 100% completely and totally false if you believed that.


And as for revisiting new areas....just no. The time for getting paid off PSO's nostalgia factor is officially over. This is a true sequel, and therefore they should focus on moving forward. They had plenty of PSO fanservice with PSP2i...in fact, far too much. They need to take the experience they had with PSU, combine it with the base mechanics from PSO (since it is a sequel) and make a completely new title. So far, PSO2 is so far away from both PSU AND PSO thanks to the simple inclusion of jumping (which allows aerial combos) that anything is really possible at this point.

Don't you think it's time they created some NEW "nostalgia" moments for the next generation? Sequel means improve upon the old. PSO was (and still is) a great game because of how massively unique it was from everything else you could play then, and still today. If anything, we should be hoping PSO2 is going to do the same thing. At the moment however it IS looking to be a pretty impressionable game, with obvious god eater / monster hunter references going on. But at the same time, they have so much room to add their own flare to it.


Remove the bias from your mind. There is ALOT to take from PSU, probably more than you think.



I suppose I should point out the irony in the fact that the last time they made a sequel purely based on the experience of PSO, we got PSU.
PSU was nothing like PSO. Spending significant time playing the two games, i can honestly say that not too many things from PSO carries over into PSU except for the concepts, names and prefixes. Oh, and a 3-hit combo.

moorebounce
May 26, 2011, 05:02 AM
@RemiusTA Yeah by them adding the ability to jump and do air combos changes things a bit. Looks like they included to roll from PSZ too so you don't have to stand there and take shots either. Plus the over-the-shoulder camera view for rangers shooting is a nice change too.

I can't wait to see what the forces can do.

Miyoko
May 26, 2011, 05:26 AM
Zero's mags were far easier to raise than PSO mags were. You could feed mags in Zero weapons, armor, and items. They could also only have a single PB and were capped at 100.

Best part about PSZ's mags? No mandatory Lv5 def. <3

DC_PLAYER
May 26, 2011, 07:08 AM
Some PSO mags also started at lvl 0, the only ones that start at lvl 5 are baby mags.

KoalaKola
May 26, 2011, 07:19 AM
Well this thread made me feel a lot better about a concern I had.

Some terribly informed individual tried to tell me it was simply a PS1 remake.

DannGunn
May 26, 2011, 08:58 AM
I think people have either taken what I said the wrong way or I simply didn't get my point across. To everyone that has came back to me in their most vitriolic fashion saying that it would be idiotic for the game to keep PSO dynamics, I whole heartedly agree! I would not dare to imagine a modern game being released with such a low number of player actions and the like. What I was trying to say was from a more conceptual stand point, the entire personality and feel of PSO should be the starting point for PSO2. PSU brought nothing new to the gaming world as far as development milestones go, PSO2 should! I think PSO2 should create a new "nostalgia" and be truly revolutionary, I just don't think it will get there by holding onto anything from PSU.


PSO was lackluster in gameplay qualities as well. They were just executed better.

I don't really understand what your getting at here, bad gameplay qualities were executed better? I personally think that PSO at release had gameplay on par and excelling any other free roam RPG's on the market (just speaking where combat is concerned).

Maybe it was just the time or just something in the air but that game still holds a place in my mind, I still remember opening my first copy of it on the Dreamcast and being blown away, I know change is coming I just hope PSO grows and stays true.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
You have no idea how many times and how many people have already been through this.

First u "Have more PSO stuff because PSU sucked because PSU sucked BECAUSE PSU SUCKED! True sequel to PSO gogogo"

Then us "PSU didn't suck that bad, it did new and innovative things it was just badly managed and imcomplete. This is obviously not going to be PSO HD"

Then u "Of course I don't want this to be just purely PSO, just that PSU sucks."

500 facepalms later, then everyone can finally agree on something logical, maybe.

Maybe...

Milla
May 26, 2011, 09:48 AM
You have no idea how many times and how many people have already been through this.

First u "Have more PSO stuff because PSU sucked because PSU sucked BECAUSE PSU SUCKED! True sequel to PSO gogogo"

Then us "PSU didn't suck that bad, it did new and innovative things it was just badly managed and imcomplete. This is obviously not going to be PSO HD"

Then u "Of course I don't want this to be just purely PSO, just that PSU sucks."

500 facepalms later, then everyone can finally agree on something logical, maybe.

Maybe...

And in the end we are all just fanboys/girls because they both suck. XD

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 09:54 AM
And in the end we are all just fanboys/girls because they both suck. XD

You know what...? D<



I agree.

Niloklives
May 26, 2011, 09:58 AM
I think people have either taken what I said the wrong way or I simply didn't get my point across. To everyone that has came back to me in their most vitriolic fashion saying that it would be idiotic for the game to keep PSO dynamics, I whole heartedly agree! I would not dare to imagine a modern game being released with such a low number of player actions and the like. What I was trying to say was from a more conceptual stand point, the entire personality and feel of PSO should be the starting point for PSO2. PSU brought nothing new to the gaming world as far as development milestones go, PSO2 should! I think PSO2 should create a new "nostalgia" and be truly revolutionary, I just don't think it will get there by holding onto anything from PSU.



I don't really understand what your getting at here, bad gameplay qualities were executed better? I personally think that PSO at release had gameplay on par and excelling any other free roam RPG's on the market (just speaking where combat is concerned).

Maybe it was just the time or just something in the air but that game still holds a place in my mind, I still remember opening my first copy of it on the Dreamcast and being blown away, I know change is coming I just hope PSO grows and stays true.


I don't see what's hard to understand. at the time, PSO was on par with what was out there and in some places better. As a whole the execution (the way sega handled the release including the general accessibility of the game and its contents) of PSO was significantly better than that of PSU which had many features which at the time of its conception were on par with what was out.

However the game was dated by the time it was released and the game's utter lack of online content in the early months (lolNOatoob) made for a thinned out player base which only became worse as SoA trickled in content releases with gaps sometimes spanning months at a time. Even with the release of AotI, the US/EU scene got a raw deal with no content updates as people continued to pay them basically to play "white beast: the experience". JP has still gotten regular content updates and now they're tooling the game to have more and more features from PSP2, expanding the available content to the the point that it was no longer feasible to maintain support for the PS2 platform - the system the game was initially designed for.

Explain to me again where the confusion is?

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 11:04 AM
And in the end we are all just fanboys/girls because they both suck. XD


.......


.......I dont know how to respond to that.


I don't really understand what your getting at here, bad gameplay qualities were executed better? I personally think that PSO at release had gameplay on par and excelling any other free roam RPG's on the market (just speaking where combat is concerned).

Maybe it was just the time or just something in the air but that game still holds a place in my mind, I still remember opening my first copy of it on the Dreamcast and being blown away, I know change is coming I just hope PSO grows and stays true.You misunderstood me. I was saying that PSO had gameplay flaws, just like PSU did. The difference is, PSO overcame them in ways that compensated better than PSU did. The time PSO came out had alot to do with it too, IMO. Back then, it was a bit more profitable to be creative in your videogames, but today it's just gotten too expensive to take the risk. Also, back then, Sonic Team was a developer who made VERY respectable titles, PSO being one of them. It was a technical kind of marvel, as well as a great game. (If you remember, PSO's graphics used to be the around the top of the top.

And finally....I do believe that PSO was just better designed than PSU overall. But PSU DID have some great qualities, as well as some features that defined it in the eyes of other games -- back then, PSU's customization system was one of the best I had ever seen in a game, MMO or not. The Room feature was also surprisingly decent as well. For what it was, there was alot of content towards it.

The battle systems in PSU wern't designed too amazingly well in the long run, and anything that didnt have to do with COMBAT was programmed pretty wonky too. PSO was definitely the more polished game, even if some of its qualities were inferior.

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 11:08 AM
And in the end we are all just fanboys/girls because they both suck. XD

The truth certainly hurts..

...oh, damn, wait a minute! Kairi, you shouldn't have said that. Now everyone is probably going to start bickering about which one sucks less.

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 11:19 AM
Neither of them suck....Well, in terms of critical reception, the obvious choice of which sucked more would be PSU. You really can't argue from that perspective.

In PSO's time, when it was released, it was pretty damn amazing. PSU has been pretty "meh" since the time of its release.

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 11:25 AM
Neither of them suck....Well, in terms of critical reception, the obvious choice of which sucked more would be PSU. You really can't argue from that perspective.

In PSO's time, when it was released, it was pretty damn amazing. PSU has been pretty "meh" since the time of its release.

Well, I didn't play PSO (or even know what it was) until I had already been into PSU for over a year. That, and I don't listen t critics. I'm my own critic. So, PSU spoiled me, and that's why I'm not a big PSO fan. I don't really like anything about the game besides the soundtrack.

Alnet
May 26, 2011, 11:51 AM
Considering PSO2 is set to be the true sequel too PSO I don't really see why so many people are talking about PSU features. I played PSU briefly and was whole heartedly disappointed by the game it almost put me off the entire franchise :-x.

I envisage PSO2 to basically disregard everything about PSU and I think developers probably went into making this as if PSU was never made (That would of been the best idea from a development standpoint in my opinion). I'd like to see PSO2 literally continuing from PSO on Ragol exploring more of the planets environment and maybe even revisiting some of its previous areas?

What do you think? Will the franchise continue with PSU's lack luster game play or will it expand on PSO's winning recipe?

I think people have either taken what I said the wrong way or I simply didn't get my point across. To everyone that has came back to me in their most vitriolic fashion saying that it would be idiotic for the game to keep PSO dynamics, I whole heartedly agree! I would not dare to imagine a modern game being released with such a low number of player actions and the like. What I was trying to say was from a more conceptual stand point, the entire personality and feel of PSO should be the starting point for PSO2. PSU brought nothing new to the gaming world as far as development milestones go, PSO2 should! I think PSO2 should create a new "nostalgia" and be truly revolutionary, I just don't think it will get there by holding onto anything from PSU.
My confusion is that in your first post, you said that it was PSU's gameplay that was the problem, but now you're saying that PSO's gameplay was bad too, and you want PSO's atmosphere back. You're being inconsistent with what you're actually saying you want.


I don't really understand what your getting at here, bad gameplay qualities were executed better? I personally think that PSO at release had gameplay on par and excelling any other free roam RPG's on the market (just speaking where combat is concerned).

Maybe it was just the time or just something in the air but that game still holds a place in my mind, I still remember opening my first copy of it on the Dreamcast and being blown away, I know change is coming I just hope PSO grows and stays true.
I think that nostalgia in itself isn't a bad thing, since that's where a lot of the excitement is coming from (especially since some of us don't have high hopes for a lot of advertisement for this game), but as long as we're going to use nostalgia as a base on what the next game should be, we're going to end up disappointed.

PSU's launch has a number of problems like the miniscule level cap, poor management, and features such as the punishment of the whole party if a single person was incapacitated once during the mission, which led to a good portion of the population dropping out within the first couple months of the game. But alongside those complaints, one of the hugest I heard was that the game wasn't similar enough to PSO. While I can sort of understand their disappointment in that it's the same brand of games, just because a game doesn't play exactly like its predecessor isn't reason enough to despise it in my eyes (in fact, I'm really sick of games that don't seem to evolve over time enough, like Street Fighter).

If you're going to let nostalgia command what you want to see, you're just going to end up unhappy with what you get. The past exists to be learned from, so in order to get a better game, we should find out what PSO did right and what PSO did wrong, and then do the same with every Phantasy Star incarnation since then, since they all brought something to the table, whether we want to admit it or not.

And finally, I'd like to say that isn't this supposed to be another "spiritual sequel"? It doesn't need to continue PSO's storyline. That plot's been finished for years, so let's do something original if it's at all possible.

r00tabaga
May 26, 2011, 11:53 AM
If you put both games in front of me right now & asked me which one to fire up and jam, I would choose PSO over PSU in a hartbeat. Even though it's dated, I still like the story elements & overall feel much better. I don't expect many to be on my side with this.

Anon_Fire
May 26, 2011, 12:20 PM
My confusion is that in your first post, you said that it was PSU's gameplay that was the problem, but now you're saying that PSO's gameplay was bad too, and you want PSO's atmosphere back. You're being inconsistent with what you're actually saying you want.


I think that nostalgia in itself isn't a bad thing, since that's where a lot of the excitement is coming from (especially since some of us don't have high hopes for a lot of advertisement for this game), but as long as we're going to use nostalgia as a base on what the next game should be, we're going to end up disappointed.

PSU's launch has a number of problems like the miniscule level cap, poor management, and features such as the punishment of the whole party if a single person was incapacitated once during the mission, which led to a good portion of the population dropping out within the first couple months of the game. But alongside those complaints, one of the hugest I heard was that the game wasn't similar enough to PSO. While I can sort of understand their disappointment in that it's the same brand of games, just because a game doesn't play exactly like its predecessor isn't reason enough to despise it in my eyes (in fact, I'm really sick of games that don't seem to evolve over time enough, like Street Fighter).

If you're going to let nostalgia command what you want to see, you're just going to end up unhappy with what you get. The past exists to be learned from, so in order to get a better game, we should find out what PSO did right and what PSO did wrong, and then do the same with every Phantasy Star incarnation since then, since they all brought something to the table, whether we want to admit it or not.

And finally, I'd like to say that isn't this supposed to be another "spiritual sequel"? It doesn't need to continue PSO's storyline. That plot's been finished for years, so let's do something original if it's at all possible.

Alnet speaks the truth. :)

EqualGraphics
May 26, 2011, 01:11 PM
The only thing I'm worried about is seeing an imbalance in classes.

I'm 100% confident that the hunter will be amazing but it's the other 2 I'm concerned about.

After playing PSU, there was no point in being a ranger or a force (i'm not gonna talk about the other class) and I quit playing that game after 2 weeks.

With the ranger (PSU) you dance around like a girl with a gun and never get hit.

Force was just weak and pointless.

I think that's what ruined PSU in the long run. In PSO you were forced to pick a class, not only for stats but for what you can wield.

Fingers crossed for PSO2

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 01:13 PM
The only thing I'm worried about is seeing an imbalance in classes.

I'm 100% confident that the hunter will be amazing but it's the other 2 I'm concerned about.

After playing PSU, there was no point in being a ranger or a force (i'm not gonna talk about the other class) and I quit playing that game after 2 weeks.

With the ranger (PSU) you dance around like a girl with a gun and never get hit.

Force was just weak and pointless.

I think that's what ruined PSU in the long run. In PSO you were forced to pick a class, not only for stats but for what you can wield.

Fingers crossed for PSO2

You played PSU for two weeks? When was this? I can assure you that the game is much different nowadays. Forces are extremely good.

EqualGraphics
May 26, 2011, 01:16 PM
First impressions is everything in a game, look at tabula rasa.

Also, I played PSP2 for a lot longer than that, very improved but obviously not the same feel as PSO.

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 01:25 PM
Also, I played PSP2 for a lot longer than that, very improved but obviously not the same feel as PSO.

Of course. PSO2 also will not have the same "feel" as PSO. PSO's "feel" is most likely never coming back at this point.

EqualGraphics
May 26, 2011, 01:45 PM
By feel I mean mechanics. I know PSO2 will never "feel" like PSO did but I know ST truly understands what made PSO so great, hell they went and made PSZ to please the fans of PSO (and that had more of what the fans wanted).

I think the problem with PSU was that people thought is was PSO2, which it wasn't. It was another game with the same concepts as PSO.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 02:00 PM
hell they went and made PSZ to please the fans of PSO (and that had more of what the fans wanted).

I think the problem with PSU was that people thought is was PSO2, which it wasn't. It was another game with the same concepts as PSO.

This is sooo... nooo...

PSZ was a good game to the DS's limitations, but even I got bored after I finished the story and messed around online. It's not "what the fans truly wanted" because I'm sure theres PSO fans that probably didn't like PSZ that much either. It was heavily based off of PSO and it's technically a prequel... but let's not go PSO purist on praising it because of that... e_e;;

It definitely looks like PSO2 won't have those clunky gameplay mechanics and I'm glad, because I've been hoping SEGA would stray far from that the second PSO2's web domain was discovered. it looks like-

Well if you read the PSO2 info sticky you'll be set on anything else I would have to add.

As for PSP2 I haven't played it yet, though I plan to soon. But I pretty much get the gist of it taking a lot of positive ideas from PSO. Even that still doesn't mean it could be legitimately called a failure to meet a "true PSO2." if anything PSP2 could be called PSU2.


Just let go of PSO-anything for 5 minutes, and see this as a completely new game.

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 02:05 PM
You played PSU for two weeks? When was this? I can assure you that the game is much different nowadays. Forces are extremely good.

Do not lie to him.


MASTERFORCES are extremely good. But note, you'll have to get to endgame status, get your spells to about 4th tier, and accumulate an inventory of S-ranks before you get there. In the long run, Forces are still trash IMO, definitely not worth the time you shell into them.

They USED to be great back when PSU was first launched. Boy has THAT changed....


Seriously, this is looking to be a completely different experience. I think we should just wait until the alpha starts to have these conversations. Perhaps it's gonna be another button mashing spamfest like PSU? Or perhaps will they will balance out the abilities and take you off auto-pilot like PSO had you after an hour of playing?

Dongra
May 26, 2011, 02:08 PM
I don't ever remember forces being good in PSU. Even with the inclusion of Master Force, they still don't hold a candle to the melee classes.

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 02:10 PM
Do not lie to him.


MASTERFORCES are extremely good. But note, you'll have to get to endgame status, get your spells to about 4th tier, and accumulate an inventory of S-ranks before you get there. In the long run, Forces are still trash IMO, definitely not worth the time you shell into them.

They USED to be great back when PSU was first launched. Boy has THAT changed....


Seriously, this is looking to be a completely different experience. I think we should just wait until the alpha starts to have these conversations. Perhaps it's gonna be another button mashing spamfest like PSU? Or perhaps will they will balance out the abilities and take you off auto-pilot like PSO had you after an hour of playing?

Well, yeah. What else would you expect? Forces to be good with C-rank gear and level 10 spells? Obviously you have to get to endgame for just about anything to be good. That's just common sense. Forces are far from trash. Go look up some Masterforce Time Attacks videos.

As for PSO2, so far it's looking like a pseudo-spamfest. And that's fine with me.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 02:10 PM
Personally I'm still confused as of to why there even is still PSO vs PSU "conversations" after the gameplay video came out... @[email protected]

What left is there to add from PSO other than mags, Everything else looks better than PSO and PSU put together. Both games related we just need to see forces...otherwise I still want PSU's customization and community aspects.

Anything left to argue is just fanboy nitpicking, extremely unnecessary fanboy nitpicking. I don't think people are looking into the present and the future enough.

BIG OLAF
May 26, 2011, 02:16 PM
Anything left to argue is just fanboy nitpicking, extremely unnecessary fanboy nitpicking. I don't think people are looking into the present and the future enough.

That's why, if people have noticed, I have zero issues so far with what I've seen of PSO2. I will not fanboy nitpick, because SEGA already said that there will be detailed character customization in PSO2, and therefor my needs for the game have been successfully met. As for other people, and their "shoulda, woulda, coulda"-ing, that's their problem.

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 02:24 PM
Well, yeah. What else would you expect? Forces to be good with C-rank gear and level 10 spells? Obviously you have to get to endgame for just about anything to be good. That's just common sense. Forces are far from trash. Go look up some Masterforce Time Attacks videos.



If i were to draw a graph of Force's effectiveness as a class, it would look something like a constant straight line at the bottom, and a sudden increase after about 100 levels of playing, with a shallow slant. But the line will still be far below the lines of the other 2 class types...which never stoop nearly as low as Force. Im saying that a force, even with decent (or more than decent) equipment for their level is still lightyears away from being a halfway decent class. It's too much work for too little payoff.

Playing a force in PSU was like playing on permanent hard mode. The ONLY time you have an advantage is when you're fighting small, stupid creatures that do nothing but run towards you. If it shoots a projectile, you're screwed. If it has an attack that lunges quick, you're screwed. (Go Vahara Q.Q) If it can't be flinched, you're screwed. If it moves around too much, you're going to wiff 50% of your technics -- you're screwed. If it has alot of health, you're screwed (no multi hurtboxes trololol). If it's Earth, Light or Dark element, you're screwed. (And if it's Ice, be prepared to be killed while casting slow-as-fuck rabarta).. And like i've described before, EVERY SINGLE shortcoming of PSU's fighting system weighs full force on the Force class. I had decent weapons, armor, and units, and my Technics were WAY past the level they should have been for my level. (most of them were 31+.) But i still never felt anywhere close to "powerful".


After a while, you just wondered why you were even playing the class anymore. By the time the Technic patch was released (and the content that came with it was delayed lololol), i had already quit. And when masterforce came about, i was too put off from the game to care anymore.

The fact that added the Limit Breaks to the game also pissed me off, as they should have been alterations to the class to begin with.

EqualGraphics
May 26, 2011, 02:48 PM
PSZ was a good game to the DS's limitations, but even I got bored after I finished the story and messed around online. It's not "what the fans truly wanted"...

Please show me where I said that. (FYI, Im not expecting an answer)


let's not go PSO purist on praising it because of that...
I never did, I just mentioned a fact about it being like PSO and people liking it.





It definitely looks like PSO2 won't have those clunky gameplay mechanics and I'm glad,

So am I




As for PSP2 I haven't played it yet, though I plan to soon. But I pretty much get the gist of it taking a lot of positive ideas from PSO.


So even you haven't played everything PS, this is sooo... nooo...


Just let go of PSO-anything for 5 minutes, and see this as a completely new game.

and this is coming from a person on a PSO2 Forum?

Also, it's a sequal, hence the 2 in front of PSO2, not a completely new game. It might look and sound like one but technically, it's not.

First time I start posting again in forums in years and I get this kind of response, I see why I ditched forums for people in real life. Expect this to be my last response.

Find a mod and ban me please.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 02:57 PM
Please show me where I said that. (FYI, Im not expecting an answer)


I never did, I just mentioned a fact about it being like PSO and people liking it.




So am I



So even you haven't played everything PS, this is sooo... nooo...



and this is coming from a person on a PSO2 Forum?

Also, it's a sequal, hence the 2 in front of PSO2, not a completely new game. It might look and sound like one but technically, it's not.

First time I start posting again in forums in years and I get this kind of response, I see why I ditched forums for people in real life. Expect this to be my last response.

Find a mod and ban me please.

Hmm this is a mess of things to quote, you kinda went through a lot of trouble splitting things up.

I actually misread half of your post and overreacted on it on the whole PSZ thing. I also thought you were talking about psp2 being "pso2." which instantly sounded retarded going through my head, but yeah I misread it because I was multitasking.

If you're glad that we're not having PSO's clunky gameplay mechanics I don't really know what else you're getting at though. As for quitting the forums, you're not really missing out on much but now YOU'RE the one overreacting. o_O

r00tabaga
May 26, 2011, 03:50 PM
Don't leave b/c you got a troll on your heels. There's a ton of good people here, they just don't spend all day posting. Not a lot of news right now, come back in a week after E3.

Niloklives
May 26, 2011, 05:36 PM
Hmm this is a mess of things to quote, you kinda went through a lot of trouble splitting things up.

I actually misread half of your post and overreacted on it on the whole PSZ thing. I also thought you were talking about psp2 being "pso2." which instantly sounded retarded going through my head, but yeah I misread it because I was multitasking.

If you're glad that we're not having PSO's clunky gameplay mechanics I don't really know what else you're getting at though. As for quitting the forums, you're not really missing out on much but now YOU'RE the one overreacting. o_O

He's still hating on PSU and expecting PSO2 to be more like PSO. He back-pedaled a bit cause of the response he got, but ultimately he still doesn't get it. A sequel simply means the events follow the events of the last one, this could be a SRPG/Card game and still be a sequel.

Anon_Fire
May 26, 2011, 06:02 PM
This is gonna turn into another PSO vs PSU thread

Just drop it, please

Nobody here wants to see PSO2 with all thats PSO. I know PSO's combat system is really dated.

Alnet
May 26, 2011, 06:31 PM
Playing a force in PSU was like playing on permanent hard mode. The ONLY time you have an advantage is when you're fighting small, stupid creatures that do nothing but run towards you. If it shoots a projectile, you're screwed. If it has an attack that lunges quick, you're screwed. (Go Vahara Q.Q) If it can't be flinched, you're screwed. If it moves around too much, you're going to wiff 50% of your technics -- you're screwed. If it has alot of health, you're screwed (no multi hurtboxes trololol). If it's Earth, Light or Dark element, you're screwed. (And if it's Ice, be prepared to be killed while casting slow-as-fuck rabarta).. And like i've described before, EVERY SINGLE shortcoming of PSU's fighting system weighs full force on the Force class. I had decent weapons, armor, and units, and my Technics were WAY past the level they should have been for my level. (most of them were 31+.) But i still never felt anywhere close to "powerful".
This, this, this, this, this. If you wanted to Force at all without being slaughtered like a wild pig, then ironically, you had to go with the Force class with the lowest health so that you could have the speed to attack enemies before they counterattacked you because you had so much lagtime before attacking.

Against large-size enemies with multiple hitboxes, there was a definite problem since you couldn't multi hit them with giant explosions. Bosses became borderline frigging impossible with the system they had in place. And if the enemies could fly, you had access to a big two attacks that could hit them reliably. And against the SEED, you had access to a single Light-type Tech that killed you as you hurt them. Though with the right weapon setup, you could end up killing off a whole room before you died, if the enemy spawn was large enough, you could kill yourself in a single hit.

Though I wouldn't say that the only advantage was against the small and weak Badira/Ageeta/Naval kind. Against enemies that clumped up together, you could take them on rather easily with Ra-Techs. Once they started adding flinch to some Techs, then groups of enemies could be taken on reasonably because they weren't punching you and running like Rambo through your giant explosions.

They just limited Forces too hard to prevent them from becoming too powerful. For the sake of balance, I can understand what they were trying to get done, but when you make an entire archetype attack slower, die faster, do less damage, and have overall fewer options than all of the others, you've totally ruined the balance from square one.

RemiusTA
May 26, 2011, 06:39 PM
I think it has to do with them theory balancing. If you do the math, Forces do pretty equal damage to the other classes...but in a group of 1000 enemies that have 1000 HP, doing 5 damage to all 1000 of them is not NEARLY as effective as doing 200 to 5 of them, even though your net damage is much higher. Add in the fact that every other class was FAR more agile than the Force, and you have a grave imbalance.

I really do wonder how much playtime they put into the classes when balancing them. The fact that everything with balancing on this game has the slingshot effect is pretty astounding, especially with so many different attempts.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2011, 07:06 PM
Well it's easy to assume they're still working on force...hopefully things work out, because I'm sure a lot of people plan to try all the classes at some point anyway... But my 2nd main is going to be a force. e_e

dooby613
Jul 7, 2011, 10:25 AM
so are you saying there will be photon chairs?

BIG OLAF
Jul 7, 2011, 10:29 AM
so are you saying there will be photon chairs?

Once I find my crystal ball, I'll let you know.

Some people... :nono:

blazingsonic
Jul 12, 2011, 06:19 PM
I get a feeling that people are doing it on purpose now. I mean, the OP's very first post on this site just so happens to be a mutation of the phrase "LOL PSU SUCKED". Seems 100% intentional on starting a flame war...

...especially considering that the thread's title is "Forget PSU dynamics in PSO2", when it's quite clear from the Alpha trailer that there are plenty of PSU (well, more along the lines of PSP2/i) dynamics present.

That is one of the things I now ignore here, that and the "US will never get this version, derp!"

Ryna
Jul 12, 2011, 06:45 PM
Do not reply to threads that are over 6 weeks old. That is considered to be bumping. If you have a specific question about the game, it would be best to create a new thread.