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View Full Version : Wont be abled to get NOL'D in this version will you?



Nutorious
Jun 9, 2011, 03:28 PM
:P... Good old DC days! Havn't played this since blue burst where there was still quite a bit of hacking, never di play PSU!

But yeah, lets hope everything is all good! I can not WAIT to play this game.

BIG OLAF
Jun 9, 2011, 03:31 PM
Since it's not PSO, uhh I doubt it.

But, we'll see.

PhotonDrop
Jun 9, 2011, 04:11 PM
Maybe if there's an NPC named NOL. Unlikely though.

HUnewearl_Meira
Jun 9, 2011, 04:34 PM
At this point, there's no telling what kind of hacks will be possible. Hopefully the replacement of character data with NPC data will not be something that can be done.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2011, 04:35 PM
Only if the programmers at Sonic Team are complete and total retards.

Nothing of the sort was possible in PSU though, so i wouldn't worry about complete character destroying antics.

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 04:37 PM
Only if the programmers at Sonic Team are complete and total retards.

Nothing of the sort was possible in PSU though, so i wouldn't worry about complete character destroying antics.
After PSP2 I wouldn't think it would be out of the question.

KodiaX987
Jun 9, 2011, 05:46 PM
Only if the programmers at Sonic Team are complete and total retards.

You'd be surprised how sometimes one typo can lead to the creation of a massive physics-defying bug.

Niloklives
Jun 9, 2011, 07:51 PM
After PSP2 I wouldn't think it would be out of the question.

what are you trying to say now?

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 08:03 PM
what are you trying to say now?
Do you remember the level zero epidemic? I'm saying that after that it isn't unlikely that they won't slip up and make it so that your character can get screwed over by a hacker with the right codes.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2011, 08:14 PM
You'd be surprised how sometimes one typo can lead to the creation of a massive physics-defying bug.

Well, when you code something, if you make a typo then the program will completely fail to compile. (which basically means, one line of incorrect code will render an application useless.)

Most physics bugs are a result of putting the characters in situations that a) confuse the physics engine or b) the physics engine was not made to handle.

PSU didn't have very many of these at all. Its physics engine was pretty solid (Not to say it wasn't completely lacking in most areas.)

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 08:20 PM
Well, when you code something, if you make a typo then the program will completely fail to compile. (which basically means, one line of incorrect code will render an application useless.)

Most physics bugs are a result of putting the characters in situations that a) confuse the physics engine or b) the physics engine was not made to handle.

PSU didn't have very many of these at all. Its physics engine was pretty solid (Not to say it wasn't completely lacking in most areas.)
Usually yes that is the case, but a typo in the right place can/will lead to a game glitch(sometimes it isn't all that bad of a glitch in fact sometimes it's desirable ).

Mike
Jun 9, 2011, 08:56 PM
sometimes it's desirable

If the game doesn't work like it's supposed to, then it's not desirable. Not in the least.

moorebounce
Jun 9, 2011, 09:13 PM
:P... Good old DC days! Havn't played this since blue burst where there was still quite a bit of hacking, never di play PSU!

But yeah, lets hope everything is all good! I can not WAIT to play this game.

You brought back old bad memories. I almost got NOL'd once on the DC. I was able to disconnect my phone line in time although they got away with my weapon and meseta. I didn't lose my lvl or name.

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 09:34 PM
If the game doesn't work like it's supposed to, then it's not desirable. Not in the least.
I'm talking about Easter Eggs and other such game glitches e.g. in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past you could get in the dark world AND go exploring it before you even beat the third dungeon( although it was recommended that you at least get the moon pearl first ) by pushing up against a ledge and using the magic mirror a certain number of times with the right steps in between.

Zarode
Jun 9, 2011, 10:27 PM
If the game doesn't work like it's supposed to, then it's not desirable. Not in the least.

I dunno, speedrunning glitches and such. But a glitch is a glitch, and those aren't exactly wanted.

Mike
Jun 9, 2011, 10:50 PM
I dunno, speedrunning glitches and such. But a glitch is a glitch, and those aren't exactly wanted.
You're right. I suppose I should have added something about MO games and being able to give yourself and unfair advantage over other players by using glitches.

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 10:53 PM
You're right. I suppose I should have added something about MO games and being able to give yourself and unfair advantage over other players by using glitches.
What's so bad about some of the glitches that are fun to exploit these games? Honestly I think you are just trying to cheat yourself out of some of the finer points of the game as well as force your opinion about it down everyone else's throat.

Mike
Jun 9, 2011, 11:18 PM
What's so bad about some of the glitches that are fun to exploit these games? Honestly I think you are just trying to cheat yourself out of some of the finer points of the game as well as force your opinion about it down everyone else's throat.
Gonna snap at everyone who replies to you, huh? Glitches aren't the finer points of games. They are glitches/bugs/mistakes.

RemiusTA
Jun 9, 2011, 11:21 PM
Usually yes that is the case, but a typo in the right place can/will lead to a game glitch(sometimes it isn't all that bad of a glitch in fact sometimes it's desirable ).


I think you misunderstood. When i say "typo" i mean "syntax error", in which case anything associated with that code would simply not run.

Most "glitches" or "exploits" in these games are simply bad foresight by the developers. Like an animation that lasts too long/goes too fast, or an animation you can cancel out of due to not placing limits on the state. It's the reason they can be easily fixed most of the time. Physics glitches are harder to fix but you can always just program ways around them without changing the engine itself.

I was just being overly technical i guess.


Anyone play Smash Brothers Melee? Remember Wavedashing? It wasn't a glitch. It was just an exploit.

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 11:26 PM
I think you misunderstood. When i say "typo" i mean "syntax error", in which case anything associated with that code would simply not run.

Most "glitches" or "exploits" in these games are simply bad foresight by the developers. Like an animation that lasts too long/goes too fast, or an animation you can cancel out of due to not placing limits on the state. It's the reason they can be easily fixed most of the time. Physics glitches are harder to fix but you can always just program ways around them without changing the engine itself.

I was just being overly technical i guess.
Oh why didn't you mention something like that earlier even though I have no idea what syntax is it's obviously important.

Randomness
Jun 9, 2011, 11:39 PM
Oh why didn't you mention something like that earlier even though I have no idea what syntax is it's obviously important.

You have no idea how many errors will pop up from a single missing }. Those aren't the mistakes that cause problems though... it's when you put a ; in the wrong place or something. And that's just syntax errors. They can be fixed fairly easily.

It's the bugs that aren't from coding errors that are tricky, since the program usually "runs".

joshboyd1209
Jun 9, 2011, 11:47 PM
You have no idea how many errors will pop up from a single missing }. Those aren't the mistakes that cause problems though... it's when you put a ; in the wrong place or something. And that's just syntax errors. They can be fixed fairly easily.

It's the bugs that aren't from coding errors that are tricky, since the program usually "runs".
I think I'm starting to pick up on that I've been doing some work with TempAR cheat codes lately and I've found it to be almost impossible without a source code for stuff when I need to duplicate certain things(aka. drop down menus ).

Niloklives
Jun 10, 2011, 04:21 AM
I think you misunderstood. When i say "typo" i mean "syntax error", in which case anything associated with that code would simply not run.

Most "glitches" or "exploits" in these games are simply bad foresight by the developers. Like an animation that lasts too long/goes too fast, or an animation you can cancel out of due to not placing limits on the state. It's the reason they can be easily fixed most of the time. Physics glitches are harder to fix but you can always just program ways around them without changing the engine itself.

I was just being overly technical i guess.


Anyone play Smash Brothers Melee? Remember Wavedashing? It wasn't a glitch. It was just an exploit.

Wave dashing is in a ton of games, melee's was just more complicated.

Krigo
Jun 10, 2011, 05:19 AM
Dash cancelling automatically comes to my mind from the Megaman X games, it's possible to cancel out any of Zero's saber attacks from X4-8 (and also X in X6) by dashing incredibly quickly and in short distance while spamming the triangle button.

It's used a lot in TAS, and I don't blame them. While it's an exploit, it makes X6 bearable.

And in PSO2, you won't be experiencing any of the problems with hacking that was exclusive to PSO, PSP and PSZ, that was due to the characters being stored client side instead of server side. None of these problems happened in PSOBB or PSU due to the fact that the characters were stored on the server instead of on your console/handheld

KodiaX987
Jun 10, 2011, 11:26 AM
You have no idea how many errors will pop up from a single missing }. Those aren't the mistakes that cause problems though... it's when you put a ; in the wrong place or something. And that's just syntax errors. They can be fixed fairly easily.

It's the bugs that aren't from coding errors that are tricky, since the program usually "runs".

Oftentimes it pops up from the "too many cooks effect" wherein one is not 100% knowledgeable about what the other has done. This can lead to a few misunderstandings along the way. In many, many cases, bugs come from very old code, oftentimes written by someone who does not work here anymore. It's also common for placeholder values to sneak under the radar and go into production.

This has led to some really baffling things in the past, in the software I worked on:


If I removed an item from a list, its contents shuffled.
Printing a report sent the software into an infinite loop.
An error occurred in the error message generation.
A product came up to a cost of 500,000$ with a 999,999$ discount.


A few of these were hilarious to watch!

But anyway, we had to fix them. And in our fixing we came up on a good deal of situations we could file under the headers: "You either know it or you don't", "oh damn he just used X instead of Y" and "we fixed that bug by downloading the latest version of whichever obscure plugin we use from that foreign third-party software company".

RemiusTA
Jun 10, 2011, 01:41 PM
Wave dashing is in a ton of games, melee's was just more complicated.

Oh.

Melee's was good because it allowed you to basically ignore the set speed attributes of your character, how well depending on their deceleration/traction. When you touched the ground while Air Dashing, it simply canceled the air dash state and put you back at a neutral state (which allows you to execute any other command, including jumping and doing it again) while keeping your Air Dash velocity. Jumping and doing it again basically allows you to accelerate. And since air dashing almost ignores inertia, you could change directions instantly...which was the real problem of it, honestly.

I think it was a hard problem to fix. Mainly because if they gave you recovery frames on it, it would have made the technique not as useful to use as you'd just get punished for doing it. If they put a limit on how fast you could use it after jumping, it also makes it not as useful for its purpose. I used to think Brawl changed how it worked because of wavedashing. But after spending lots of time on Brawl, it was obvious they only changed it because they nuked all the competitive aspects of the title. Removing the helpless state just let noobs dodge everything, and the floaty crap gravity insured you return to the stage anyway.


MMX6 slash canceling was another thing that i doubt Capcom intended on doing, but there's no way to be sure. Not letting you dash cancel a slash would have made the game a bit harder, and not letting you slash cancel a dash would have made zero VERY annoying to play. Only way to fix that exploit was to prorate his combo damage (which would have been retarded for a megaman game.) Or just give him a Dash Slash. (like in Megaman Zero.)





This has led to some really baffling things in the past, in the software I worked on:


If I removed an item from a list, its contents shuffled.
Printing a report sent the software into an infinite loop.
An error occurred in the error message generation.
A product came up to a cost of 500,000$ with a 999,999$ discount.


A few of these were hilarious to watch!

But anyway, we had to fix them. And in our fixing we came up on a good deal of situations we could file under the headers: "You either know it or you don't", "oh damn he just used X instead of Y" and "we fixed that bug by downloading the latest version of whichever obscure plugin we use from that foreign third-party software company". These stories are really funny. Im no programmer, but i know that programmers who work for companies basically have to program stuff with multiple people. I use a program called Multimedia Fusion 2 to create games, and i know how annoying it is to deal with someone elses programming habits, even if they're doing the exact same thing you are. Sometimes it's just really difficult to think how someone else thinks. I dont comment my code because i know my thinking processes, but unfortunally everyone seems to think like that...

Im pretty sure thats how stupid little glitches tend to happen in videogames. But i blame NOLing on limited knowledge on designing MMO server code.

But boy, would i love to buy something that paid me $500,000 for purchasing it.

KodiaX987
Jun 10, 2011, 03:42 PM
But boy, would i love to buy something that paid me $500,000 for purchasing it.

The history behind this one was that the customer had no set price for that product and would decide on it on a case by case basis. So he asked that we intentionally punch in an outlandish price as default to cue to the user into choosing another price.

A discounting glitch then resulted in funny shenanigans of the sort.

We refused to use the "funny price method" ever again.

Mystil
Jun 21, 2011, 11:52 AM
i think the days of PS-related hacking are done and have died with PSU. If you're a long time PSO player like I am, then you'd know how good it feels to say that..

Dragwind
Jun 22, 2011, 05:45 PM
i think the days of PS-related hacking are done and have died with PSU. If you're a long time PSO player like I am, then you'd know how good it feels to say that..

For the most part, this is true and I feel your relief. PSU did have a few run-ins with actual hackers... but it was rare. It was nothing like the insanity on PSO. There were more glitch exploits than anything in PSU.

Mr Champloo
Jun 25, 2011, 08:53 PM
I remember throwing down a RAFOIE in town and freezing everyone ahh good times.